Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 11, Random Nurse in this game wrote: I wonder what kind of heat Scum's packing this game.In post 11, Random Nurse in Mini Normal 2317 wrote: I'm surprised there's an IC in this game, so Scum is probably packing heat?
VOTE: KeyLaga
VOTE: Random Nurse-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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well, the history + I don't see a town motivation for posting that thought
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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there were only like 2 slots that defended random nurse, why are you voting notascum as opposed to looking at themIn post 103, Hu Tao wrote: I also think I'm more weary of scum being off that wagon. Scum knew RN was town so they probably soft defended to gain townie points-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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hu tao i'm struggling to believe your confidence in your notascum read is real
i don't understand the difference between notascum's entrance and KJQ's entrance for one-
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do you have the idea that i wouldn't show chutzpah as scum?In post 138, Political Clout wrote:
I liked you going after rn showed chutzpah. I liked it. Am I wrong?In post 137, Dannflor wrote: why am i town political clout-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i've been pretty reserved in my posting so far and i think it's reasonable to assume my initial push on RN may have had nefarious intentions, so it feels mildly TMI to try to build a town coalition with me in itIn post 142, Klick wrote: @Dann can I get a decent summary of what you're currently thinking about Political Clout
i hoped PC's reason for town reading me would be something a little deeper than that I "showed chutzpah" because i'm not sure that's alignment indicative unless you have very specific meta on a player
93 and 125 both feel kind of performative in how they are written
im wary of the way 126 is trying to take control of the gamestate
that's about the extent of my thoughts so far-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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not helping the "more focused on selling yourself as genuine than finding scum" accusations-
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how often do you think this type of contradiction actually catches scumIn post 155, Hu Tao wrote: She's contradicting herself. She does this as scum. She literally I'd saying the thing she did as town last game is now scummy when I do it.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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that just seems to assume hu tao is a specific brand of scum playerIn post 261, Klick wrote: Like this kind of behavior is very self-focused and you're not that self-focused when your wincon is attached to two other known players
i don't think that's generally true about scum players-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you are telling me you had 0 idea your self-vote and "trade deal" case would cause some people to town read you and thus want to unvote you?In post 274, Hu Tao wrote: If I'm being honest I would self vote as scum but probably wouldn't say the stuff I'm saying in terms of getting Naerys tomorrow. So I can see how that's manipulative now. Sorry and this wasn't my intention and I won't do it again in the future. I should see how other perspective would see it, not just myself. Now I feel bad.
UNVOTE:
because i would find it more believable that you were intentionally being manipulative as town than that you actually believed that if you self voted and died that people would sheep your case on naerys. you actually believe the case is that strong?? you actually believe people care about dead townie's reads?? have you ever seen a situation like that happen before?
like you just said that last game you spent like 3 day phases calling naerys scum before anyone would listen to. what makes you think anyone would listen to you after you died?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you're being very reasonable post-selfvote hu tao-
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I'd like you to explain what specifically made you think this when you return to threadIn post 284, KayJayQueue wrote: From what I’ve picked up and observed, I just don’t think Hu Tao is a good vote right now. I don’t have an alternative yet but I just don’t think Hu Tao is worth killing today after everything that’s been said.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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my point was more about what realistically happens in mafia games than what is the "correct" play or not. generally i find people who play mafia are more interested in their own individual reads to dead sheep someone like that unless they have a significant reputation for having accurate readsIn post 337, KayJayQueue wrote: And on that point, if we did vote Hu, is it wrong to consider their position during the next day phase? IF they are proven town, wouldn’t their opinions/ideas be worth revisiting instead of ignoring? Personally and it may just be me, I do believe I’d care about the opinion of someone dead if they were confirmed good. Now, all that being said, would I be taking the wrong approach in that scenario? And if so, why? I ask this genuinely because I do want to be cautious in my line of thinking, especially so I don’t get tunnel vision believing someone is or isn’t town.
whether it's correct approach or not depends on a lot of factors that can't really be generalized-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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hu tao i also feel like the actions behind your naerys scum read don't match up to how you're treating the read now
it seems like you had close to 100% confidence and now naerys is just "scummy" and you're mostly talking about other stuff now and you're not even voting there...? like why is this read still not the most interesting thing in the game to you if you were willing to die for it-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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outer wilds is my favorite game everIn post 392, Klick wrote: I've started playing the Outer Wilds DLC and it's a blast-
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I think i’d rather not kill hu tao or naerys today-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think her frustration seems genuineIn post 445, Hu Tao wrote:
Why not Naerys?In post 444, Dannflor wrote: I think i’d rather not kill hu tao or naerys today-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i would also say scum are usually more careful about not contradicting themselves-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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tbh i could argue that D1 is the least crapshooty day-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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why
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think if naerys and hu tao are town v town then KJQ very much fits the profile of scum i am expecting
I think her tone has been decently towny but i think her posts are much more driven by fear of optics than fear of being wrong-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I’m curious why?In post 775, davesaz wrote: Re-reading Dannflor, I can move him up to the townlean tier.-
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aristeia isn't really playing this like I'd expect scum to play this-
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he’s gonna super duper activate his innocent child-
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rereading naerys vs hu tao and it just feels like two townies who desperately believe they are Correct-
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aristeia goes from pushing one (hu tao) to the other (naerys) without much fanfare, which i think is indicative of genuinely just trying to figure them both out and isn’t exactly great optics for scum
If I’m right about hu tao and naerys being TvT i would expect scum to be either not engaging much with the conflict at all, or taking a much more static and/or one-sided approach to the 1v1-
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the thing about gera is he can put out substantially more content than this D1 as both alignments
however, i do think he’s more prone to leaning on his “d1 sux” schtick and talking about that schtick to subsidize his content as scum. i think he’s been a little over explainy about his actions instead of just owning them-
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I think I’m seeing the KJQ town reads now
Still not quite as confident as some of you seem to be though-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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It’s kinda whack psyche doesn’t like interact with the hu tao v naerys debacle like one bit
i mean besides being vaguely annoyed by melodrama-
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i dont know this feels like a genre of case i would make as scumIn post 512, Psyche wrote: the page provides an entire system for classifying self-votes and explains in detail how each type of self vote could come from scumorfrom town.
then the only sentence from which it can be gleaned that anyone thinks self-voting is a scumtell is:
"While this practice is commonly seen as scum-indicative, no data has been compiled on the actual effectiveness of self-voting as a towntell or a scumtell."
this is arguably the most disapproving way that a writer could conceivably share that information without openly abandoning wikipedia's editorial guidelines
but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test
like it’s so logical that it misses the illogical ideas that
1) the wiki link being posted was clearly just a cute rhetorical point
2) people dont actually read-
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1. No one has the full pictureIn post 558, KayJayQueue wrote: I worry that the minute I give my opinion on my gut feeling on a few I am strongly feeling are town, I’m going to get responses that say “oh I’ve played with them before, they do this as scum” “don’t pay attention to that” etc etc. I feel like I’m the only one that can’t offer any meta and therefore I’ll never have the full picture that others seem to have. It’s slightly alienating but I’m trying to keep up.
2. Posts like these are half the reason i can’t seem to comfortably town read KJQ. I feel like she keeps reiterating that she is alienated and confused and struggling to make reads, but i also dont actually feel that anxiety in her posting. I don’t really know how else to explain it-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Oh and like idkIn post 841, KayJayQueue wrote:
If this becomes the majority consensus, I better start rereading this thread because I focused way too much of my energy on figuring out who I believed on the Hu vs Naerys drama just to realize I should’ve been paying more attention to psyche’s read on NAS or the 3 votes on gera that happened in quick succession.In post 835, Dannflor wrote: rereading naerys vs hu tao and it just feels like two townies who desperately believe they are Correct
What is stopping you just clicking psyche’s ISO or the post i just quoted and seeing what you think about it right now?
it feels performative to talk about all the work you gotta do or that you might have to do or that you should’ve done before because if you’re town and genuinely interested in solving, i don’t get why your energies aren’t just focused on doing the solving now
pedit: drew (titus’ predecessor) made posts! What do you think of those??-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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eh i guess i believe psyche believes in their case on NAS-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I understand being anxious. Also, please feel free to ask questions and ask about game terms and also to change your mind and be uncertain. No one is going to get annoyed.
to be frank, my issue right now is that I can’t distinguish whether you are town too anxious about being wrong, or mafia using that as a front to look good-
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I’m going to be sad if the scum team is something like geraint/Titus/KJQ-
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okay like who is the scum playing around naerys being obstinate and selfvoting
like who is bussing her
davesaz?? idk i dont see it-
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I think I just wanna lim in this pool today thoughIn post 851, Dannflor wrote: I’m going to be sad if the scum team is something like geraint/Titus/KJQ-
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I think I’ll find you as town if you are town
I don’t want to make this game not fun for you and I’m sorry if you’re feeling that way
I’ll lay off you I just wanted to express how I’m reading you because it looks like I’m the only person in the game reading you that way
anyway if you’d like to talk about other slots im happy to do that-
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for what it’s worth i suddenly feel better about you-
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i think KJQ's reaction to my pressure was townyIn post 893, Titus wrote:
Why?In post 858, Dannflor wrote: for what it’s worth i suddenly feel better about you-
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