Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[Rautherdir]

Hi guys I claim Benediction!
Any CC's?

You are bad at scumclaiming. Watch and learn.

I HAVE

GREEN

ROLE PM

Wait, is Benediction even scum? All I can see is that they are an informed minority, unless I'm missing something in the setup that doesn't necessarily mean they're a threat to town.

[Rautherdir]

Why you ask about Benediction but not... What name of red faction anyway?

Is this because they are red?

Because they are red, yes, and because well... Malediction sounds a lot more antagonistic then Benediction does.
And also, you're the one who associated scumclaiming with claiming a green role card, which I'd consider a potential slip if this wasn't RVS given the circumstances.

[Rautherdir]

Maybe flavor will help explain it one way or another, or we could figure out from whatever night actions happen on day 2, but day 1 and without flavor I think only those informed minorities will know for sure if they are a threat to town. Cause... well, informed.

[Rautherdir]

Why you ask about Benediction but not... What name of red faction anyway?

Is this because they are red?

Because they are red, yes, and because well... Malediction sounds a lot more antagonistic then Benediction does.
And also, you're the one who associated scumclaiming with claiming a green role card, which I'd consider a potential slip if this wasn't RVS given the circumstances.

Oh if they are good what about they claim D1?

Would you ask masons to claim day 1 if their existence as an informed group but not their alignment was confirmed to all from the start?

[Rautherdir]

benediction could be a benign scum group but i don’t know that it’s wise to make assumptions yet.

I'm not making assumptions one way or another, just pointing out a potential slip. Like I said, day two or once we get some flavor we might get more insight into what is happening in regards to what the threats to Invocation are.

[Rautherdir]

I will say my role name sounds much more powerful then the actual ability actually is. I'm actually not sure at all how to use my role to any benefit, though it is role madness so uh... maybe there's some use to even something like what I have?

[Rautherdir]

benediction could be a benign scum group but i don’t know that it’s wise to make assumptions yet.

I'm not making assumptions one way or another, just pointing out a potential slip. Like I said, day two or once we get some flavor we might get more insight into what is happening in regards to what the threats to Invocation are.

how is that a slip though? benediction is coloured green in the opening posts, it’s not a stretch that someone would read them.

The potential slip was stating that claiming a green colored role card (Benediction) is claiming scum.

[Rautherdir]

But. I'm not really going to chase it, just bringing up the possibility that it was a slip for future reference.

I do not know the meta for most anyone here, including the mod, so I won't really be factoring that in.

[Rautherdir]

... Actually it is RVS still (I think) and this is as good a reason to vote someone as any at this stage, so VOTE: Enchant

[Rautherdir]

Flavour has no bearing on the alignments of players, so don't use it to make arguments.

Oh, I missed this. I guess we'll just have to figure it out through what night actions happen or if we flip a Malediction/Benediction and it says in their role pm who the threats to town are.

[Rautherdir]

I mean the name is literally benediction.

Survivors are not town but not scum, as an example

[Rautherdir]

Masons are informed, though their alignment is town so not the minority.

Is it the case that an informed minority is always scum? Cause if so then yeah, my point is invalid.

[Rautherdir]

I would say that we should definitely act as if they are a threat to town on day 1 when we are without further information. Doesn't stop me from presenting the possibility of it being otherwise, I'm just wondering why you specifically went with green colored role card as a scum claim instead of going red colored role card.

[Rautherdir]

I think it's not more letter eating like "scum not scum" it's more that you assume that one of teams could benefit town which is not assumption commonly made.

I mean, Benediction does not sound very antagonistic, and we are in a game where the mod can misdirect.

[Rautherdir]

Though I hadn't noticed that flavour doesn't have an impact on alignment, if I'd noticed that earlier I probably wouldn't have brought this up to begin with.

[Rautherdir]

But yet you accuse me of scumslip for mentioning them as scum.

I originally said potential scumslip if this wasn't RVS, but I did vote you so fair.

[Rautherdir]

Green role color + an inherently non-antagonistic sounding name (Especially compared to Malediction) did not scream as being scum to me personally.

[Rautherdir]

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

[Rautherdir]

Well. I might have still done it actually.
This was a decent way to break out of RVS I think, and I like doing stuff like that.

[Rautherdir]

It is public knowledge, read the setup post

Benediction and Malediction are different non town factions

The question is if they are threats to town. I played Devil's Advocate I suppose and suggested a possibility that Benediction, bearing a green role color and a name like that, might in fact not be antagonistic to town.

[Rautherdir]

.... Actually wait.

I just realized the pattern of the three faction names.

[Rautherdir]

Benedictions and maledictions are both subsets of invocations. Respectively, invocations for blessings and curses. Each of the concepts are as removed from invocations in general as the other is, with invocations being neutral.

.... I'm not sure what significance this has if any.

[Rautherdir]

At the very least this suggests Benediction and Malediction are antagonistic to each other I guess?

I should stop trying to use flavor to figure out things though cause I know it can't be used that way now.

[Rautherdir]

Well, maybe flavor can still tell us about the setup and what the persuasions of the factions towards each other are, just not what any specific player is, on second glance.

[Rautherdir]

By the way - it was not Enchant who associated green with claiming scum in the first place. They were echoing Dragon, who did it first.

Dragon claimed Benediction without saying if it was scum or not. And... in fact, claimed it as if there was a role instead of an alignment and could thus be CC'd. (Though I guess it could still be CC'd as Benediction does know who their member(s) are by way of being an informed minority unless there are traitor equivalents or such)

[Rautherdir]

I'm not even sure what my role would be called in a more conventional game. (And thus don't know where on the wiki to look for play advice for, if there even is an equivalent for it) Half tempted to claim just to ask for help in how to even use it properly. This was the first time I've ever not been able to reply to my role pm with the normal equivalent of my role through any combination of modifiers and roles.

[Rautherdir]

Meanwhile, we have all pretty much ignored Abnegation claiming miller. Not sure what to make of it, except that claiming it right at the start is generally the right play. This is multiball though, and her claim could make either scum team suspect her of belonging to the other, potentially exposing her to nightkills. Leaving this alone for now.

I mean yeah. Was tempted to say this does suggest that both results are equally bad, though from the perspective of not knowing who the threats to town are they... are indeed equally bad.

It's also... unusually easy to check even, just check on two consecutive nights. Not that it'd be a good idea to do so, burning two investigates to confirm a miller is uh... not the best play.

[Rautherdir]

Well. Guess it depends on how any cops or similar we have work. If it's just non-invocation or invocation then we can't check it at all.

[Rautherdir]

If that claim is true actually that does make them town I'd say, that doesn't sound like a role that scum would have. Though... any public attempt to clear them would likely get them night killed, and action economy of two nights to confirm them as town is a bit suspect, as mentioned.

[Rautherdir]

An odd/even night godfather that shows as the... other informed minority instead of town just really doesn't make sense for scum to have.

[Rautherdir]

Though... any public attempt to clear them would likely get them night killed, and action economy of two nights to confirm them as town is a bit suspect, as mentioned.

It might only take one. Imagine for example if Abnegation was actually Benediction, and got investigated on night one, or any other odd night. Claim instantly blown out of the water.

Well, yeah. I'm making the assumption that they are what they say they are in saying that. If it turns out to be wrong then of course, that makes things much simpler.

Which does raise a point, probably better for any cops that get results like Benediction/Not Benediction or Malediction/Not Malediction to investigate on the night that is claimed to get the Not Benediction or Not Malediction result

[Rautherdir]

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

I think the whole point of this setup is that there's no "town" and "scum", because the uninformed majority is actually "neutral" in the struggle between good and evil (judging by the fact that we're colored Ike third parties and Benediction is colored like town).

I realized that later, yeah. Invocation is neutral, Malediction is evil, Benediction is good. The question then is... We can likely presume this is a fight between Malediction and Benediction, but then what about Invocation? We can probably assume that Malediction doesn't have the best interests for Invocation, Benediction is perhaps more in the air.
(A situation where this is literally a fight between Malediction and Benediction, and Invocation is literally just the third party with a survivor like win con in the end is amusing to me but I don't think that's the case, I assume there is in fact threats to Invocation based on our win con, we'd literally have already won if there aren't any threats.)

[Rautherdir]

Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.

I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.

I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.

[Rautherdir]

how many evils do we think we’re looking for? 2v2v9? 2v3v8 if one faction is benign scum?

Sounds about right. Maybe 2&7v4 if we have a faction that can win with Invocation.

In the very hypothetical scenario that both Benediction and Malediction aren't antagonistic to Invocation then I'd say probably 3v3v7 but uhhh Invocation's win con would already have been met in that case so I'm gonna say that isn't the situation we are in.

[Rautherdir]

Ack, wish I'd known what it would have been called earlier. And this somehow counts as an investigative role. Which I guess it does reveal something, just... wow.
I guess I should still activate it on nights to get even that little bit of information, and I guess there are a few claims I would be able to check more safely then other investigatives based on the wiki.

This suggests there are role blocking abilities and/or modifiers though, so... there's that.

[Rautherdir]

Well, or abilities that can track actions taken or such, but I'm not compulsive so I'm not here to confuse those I don't think.

[Rautherdir]

Maybe a rolestopper or ascetic I could still see, but... yeah. I mean I had no idea how to use my ability effectively anyways so uh... it was either claim to figure out how to even use my role or try and figure it out myself.

Well, the least I can do at this point is try and be helpful enough to town that I get shot for that reason.

[Rautherdir]

And hey, I might still get roleblocked if someone wants to fake an ascetic claim.

[Rautherdir]

I mean towniest is going to have to be Hell Froze Over cause uh, IC.
Second towniest (And more usefully) would be Abnegation cause I don't see that being a fakeclaim that scum would do.

Scummiest at this point I'd say is probably furtiveglance, they haven't really contributed much at all while still being present.
(Yes my vote is on Enchant but I don't really see them as more then a soft scum lean right now.)

[Rautherdir]

Also casting shade on an IC. Yes mod misdirection is possible, that doesn't allow outright lying I believe. Misdirection would be more like... well, saying Benediction is an informed minority but not mentioning if they are threats to Invocation, in the situation where Benediction is able to win with Invocation.

[Rautherdir]

(Please correct me if I'm wrong if misdirection allows outright false information by the mod, cause that would be very important information to know.)

[Rautherdir]

Oh wait you're right, miller does create outright false information. I'm going to hope that it's limited to misdirection or roles like Miller or Godfather then.

[Rautherdir]

Also casting shade on an IC. Yes mod misdirection is possible, that doesn't allow outright lying I believe. Misdirection would be more like... well, saying Benediction is an informed minority but not mentioning if they are threats to Invocation, in the situation where Benediction is able to win with Invocation.

i interpreted 33 as a joke.

I mean probably, though my original point about them still stands.

[Rautherdir]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Unlike most Millers we can actually check this one if we have a role that either shows a players alignment outright, or a Benediction/Not Benediction, or Malediction/Not Malediction result.
Showing a player's role outright would require two checks, Benediction/Not Benediction or the counterpart would just need to check on the night where it should get a Not Benediction or Not Malediction result.

[Rautherdir]

Whether or not we check them depends on how useful to town in their posts they are, the more useful to town they are the more likely we should just check them and make them confirmed.

[Rautherdir]

Scummiest at this point I'd say is probably furtiveglance, they haven't really contributed much at all while still being present.

I agree that they have contributed very little, but I believe it is typical of their early-game play.
What do you think of ActionDan's ISO? To me it looks like a bunch of nothing trying to look like something.

It's something at least, though not very great I'll admit.

[Rautherdir]

You raise it simply to say to leave it?

Pretty much. With a claim like this, I expect corroborating evidence to turn up sooner or later - such as the presence of a cop who can get those reads as results.

The point of the claim is that no such waste of power occurs, if you're Marked you lose a lot of damage when you miss.

The solution here is simply that the person must be shown a game over screen, probably before we get the choice of Sheol or Cathedral...

Why must thou talk in riddles?

You might have to pop open a Binding of Isaac wiki to get some of what they say. Though it is still understandable without the extra context so far.

[Rautherdir]

Also casting shade on an IC. Yes mod misdirection is possible, that doesn't allow outright lying I believe. Misdirection would be more like... well, saying Benediction is an informed minority but not mentioning if they are threats to Invocation, in the situation where Benediction is able to win with Invocation.

i interpreted 33 as a joke.

Same here.

(There's a reason I brought up that point in a separate post from my actual reason for scum reading them)

[Rautherdir]

This is true, and I spent a while (before game started even) debating if I should claim to get knowledge on how to use my role or not. I just had no idea how to play my role, I couldn't figure out what the equivalent role was on the wiki and was thus bereft of any play advice from there.

[Rautherdir]

The information that there are almost certainly roles that prevent actions from working is I think more valuable then keeping my role hidden as well, in retrospect. Plus, I can try to be as helpful to town as possible in order to eat a night kill for that reason even if not a powerful role. (The trick of course, is doing that, which I might not have the best track record of.)

[Rautherdir]

I can do stuff like check ascetic or vet claims at least. Or just... gather information in general about other actions in play maybe.

[Rautherdir]

We have a few people who haven't posted yet, yeh. We do have content worth commenting on but I think we need new eyes.

[Rautherdir]

rautherdir has slight town vibes too.
i don’t scumread anyone right now and i’m not convinced by the furtive/actiondan stuff. i don’t think the “not contributing enough” tell is very good. i’ve seen it be wrong far more than i’ve seen it be right.
i’ll be back in a few hours too.

I mean yeah but it's the best I have to work with outside of Enchant being seemingly convinced that Benediction is guaranteed to be antagonistic to town, and I don't really scum read that so much as find it odd.

[Rautherdir]

OH HEY something I can check.

[Rautherdir]

... I mean you've already been confirmed to be Invocation so I'm not sure I need to check that, but. Still.

[Rautherdir]

Ascetic IC actually makes a lot of sense. No saving them from scum. That alone doesn't validate my role though cause they are an IC. (I mean I could spend a night checking it but they're probably going to die sooner or later anyways.)

[Rautherdir]

you do realize the implications of your claim, right?

It is good to get that ascetic claim out as an ascetic IC. Most doctors/similar would try to protect an IC normally, stating out loud that it won't work is a decent choice. (There is an argument for hiding it so that you can stay alive if scum think you are protected as well, but that's debatable.)

[Rautherdir]

... I tend to assume scum is competent. This is perhaps not the wisest choice in all cases.

[Rautherdir]

you do realize the implications of your claim, right?

It is good to get that ascetic claim out as an ascetic IC. Most doctors/similar would try to protect an IC normally, stating out loud that it won't work is a decent choice. (There is an argument for hiding it so that you can stay alive if scum think you are protected as well, but that's debatable.)

ehhh, not really. if the scum kill the ic while a doc is on them, a doctor protection anywhere else wouldn't necessarily give a better outcome.

I'd make an argument that we're in multiball so two kills, but it's specifically stated that factional abilities can be non-standard and also I don't know if Benediction is even antagonistic sooo fair enough.

[Rautherdir]

I can see the merit to both claiming ascetic and not claiming ascetic, and in traditional multiball I'd say claiming ascetic is better. Gives the scum teams a chance to overlap kills on accident.
We most likely aren't in traditional multiball though so it goes down to the IC's choice.

pedit: 1-shot vet IC would be hilarious though.

[Rautherdir]

If everyone targets Hell Froze Over tonight surely nothing would go wrong.

[Rautherdir]

We do have both a confirmed town and a very towny person by claim in Abnegation though, so. Who gets shot first is actually up in the air, probably depends on who scum is more worried about.

[Rautherdir]

Jester IC would be an insane role.

[Rautherdir]

Hell Froze Over's play doesn't quite match up with it. (I mean unless they were baiting me into checking and finding out that they weren't ascetic in that hypothetical situation, but.)

It would be the hard mode of jester. Immediately give yourself a townread by everyone, and a target on your back for all of the scum nightkills.

[Rautherdir]

Mass wittering would indeed be terrible.

I really need to make sure most of my posts are actually game advancing though cause what I have is my ability to contribute to town and an as-far-as-I-can-tell barely useful ability. I think I helped get town out of RVS though so I have done that at least!

[Rautherdir]

To explain, Abnegation claimed a fancy miller. Reads as one of the informed minorities on even nights, the other informed minority on odd nights. Which... is actually provable in a way that almost certainly makes them town, unlike traditional millers.

[Rautherdir]

Or at least, I'm assuming it's provable because otherwise being a miller would be a bit... odd without any role checking abilities in play.

[Rautherdir]

I'm legitimately wondering if my inclusion is to subvert the practice of a single VT in role madness with just a very low powered ability instead. Or maybe my role actually has legitimate uses in this setup I guess I'll find out.

There have to be other investigative roles then just me though, because really. (I am a little bit salty about my role)


p-edit:
I accounted for this, but... I mean... that's a very weak if not detrimental version of a even/odd-night godfather if that's the case. I mean... why not just have it be a read as Invocation on those nights instead then. Unless one of the scum teams is benign, but even then we don't know that for sure, so. Either way it's negative utility in my eyes.

[Rautherdir]

The other case is if it's a fabricated claim entirely. Which is possible, and it's a claim that could take two checks to confirm or dispel, which wastes actions. But so far I read Abnegation as town.

[Rautherdir]

In terms of distribution, I'm thinking 9/2/2 seems likely.

Assuming two antagonistic teams, yeah. With benign scum it might be 8/3/2 or 7/4/2, but I don't currently think we're in that situation.

[Rautherdir]

Well, I meant the bastard sort of IC that falsely reveals as town. Jester hard mode, just tack on compulsive self-vig for an even harder variant.

[Rautherdir]

See now I'm thinking about a setup where everyone is a false IC. Which if known is effectively announcing at the start of the game for each person a faction they are not. Would probably have to be multiball.

[Rautherdir]

I'm legitimately wondering if my inclusion is to subvert the practice of a single VT in role madness with just a very low powered ability instead. Or maybe my role actually has legitimate uses in this setup I guess I'll find out.

There have to be other investigative roles then just me though, because really. (I am a little bit salty about my role)


p-edit:
I accounted for this, but... I mean... that's a very weak if not detrimental version of a even/odd-night godfather if that's the case. I mean... why not just have it be a read as Invocation on those nights instead then. Unless one of the scum teams is benign, but even then we don't know that for sure, so. Either way it's negative utility in my eyes.

I don't think you should assume this role is useless, at this point in the game we don't know much about the setup, but as has previously been stated this could be used to confirm the existence of roleblocks, rolestops etc. roles that seem relatively useless can actually be really important depending on the setup.

I know, I'll try and use it the best way I can. If I can even figure that out. And just try to be as otherwise helpful as I can be regardless of how useful my role is.

[Rautherdir]

We're almost all posted though, neat.

[Rautherdir]

I mean, I'll outright say that my goal is to be so obnoxiously towny that scum shoots me, cause then I take a bullet for people with actually good roles.

[Rautherdir]

I'm not sure I like IceDragon's push on actiondan either, though pushing them any closer to erasure when we haven't even had everyone post yet isn't the best idea.

[Rautherdir]

And with the mod V/LA as well. But yeah let's not speedrun this game, no one has actually outright scum claimed and we would really like to have the time to develop reads on other people as well.

[Rautherdir]

Well, technically IceDragon, Enchant and me all did, but sure.

I mean yeah, fair, but I'm going to assume you were all joking.

[Rautherdir]

A thought appears to be locked inside the Top Secret Room. Fortunately I have bombs.

It is possible for someone to be multiple non town alignments.

That... might be possible, I suppose. If both scum teams are allied against Invocation then I could definitely see that being the case, with one player acting as a bridge between them.

[Rautherdir]

If scum only have PTs open at night then that would give us a single day to prevent communication between the factions.
However, I doubt we're in that situation right now, without knowing more about what night actions are in play.

[Rautherdir]

usually, moderators are supposed to disclose whether there's daytalk. i don't think that situation is likely though.

This would technically be covered in 'Factional abilities may or may not be non-standard.' so we do not know.

[Rautherdir]

This is true, 276 was a very solid post and I can't deny what was said there. I need to do some reading myself, just kind of waiting for the last person to show up and post.

p-edit: I mean I'm not scum reading you Enchant but uh... I'm not townreading you either.

[Rautherdir]

enchant is totally in their scum meta here. like, look at their iso and then look at this.

I'm glad I actually noticed the link before clicking, so I'm going to assume this is a joke entirely, including the first part?

[Rautherdir]

(Not that I like using meta reasons anyways, so it wouldn't have influenced my thoughts on Enchant much.)

I'll do some in-depth reading tomorrow, hopefully Kame and others have been able to start getting stuff out themselves by then.

[Rautherdir]

Wait a minute... how does one simultaneously theorize Benediction being benign, and suspect someone of slipping they were not?

The theory was meant to provoke discussion and get us out of RVS. I don't actually believe it to be the case, and without night actions or a flip to show otherwise I will be treating the game as having two antagonistic factions against town.

I'm reading through the game again myself, if a bit slowly due to distractions outside of the game.

[Rautherdir]

That... is true. I'll admit I'm a fan of more exotic setups, and thus tend to think about them as a possibility more then most players would.

[Rautherdir]

Hmm. To be honest I was baiting to see who would agree with my stance or not, thus why I kept mentioning it as a possibility throughout the day. As mentioned Benediction would probably jump onto something like that as a chance to be town... so after reading through again (Unfortunately not everyone has commented on it, was hoping a bit more time would offer that but nope.)

Enchant I admittedly wasn't going to get much information on from this play given they were the person I pressured to do this. They handled it well enough though.
ActionDan also responded well to it, asking the mod directly.
furtiveglance made a fairly small post about it, but didn't entertain the possibility either.
Feysal admitted it was a point of understandable confusion but was on the side of it being both malign. (Though I like Feysal more then furtiveglance for town, despite the ordering I put here.)
The Keeper... I'll admit I'm not sure about their response, but I think they were saying they expected Benediction to be scum
IceDragon actually entertained the idea of Benediction being able to be benign

Hugir I'm not sure about, 124 might have been a typo of next instead of never, the sentence makes a lot more sense the second way. None of their other posts clarified their view of this.

I don't have any information from my play on other players as they didn't respond directly to it, nor have they posted much for other reasons as well.

No one else really commented about it... But I'll say that IceDragon also seemed to be trying to get town read by me earlier, and several other previously stated less then towny posts.
UNVOTE: Enchant
VOTE: IceDragon

[Rautherdir]

Given the time left it's probably going to come down to me or IceDragon for elim. I'd prefer IceDragon get eliminated of course, I think they have a pretty good chance of scum and they're also not me, but overall I don't think it'd be a huge loss to town if I get eliminated either, so.

(On another note I'm very glad I reread the site rules before the game started, there was a very important rule change about the term used for elimination that happened in my absence.)

[Rautherdir]

In the event I do survive to night, I have to consider if I should target the claimed ascetic to see if they are ascetic, or... target someone else and see if my role card isn't entirely accurate.

[Rautherdir]

Wait, this has already started?

@Narration, I did not receive a daystart PM.

Wait a sec while I read the thread...

This... is actually a massive towntell, right?
I think if Blue is scum he'd have, like, he'd know the day started by either scum PT locking or his buddy telling him, right?

And I'll go ahead and comment on this myself.

If scum don't have daytalk then yeah, the thread locking would be pretty obvious sign that the game started. With the amount of time that elapsed in the game before they posted though, it's reasonable to think this could have been why they noticed the game began in the first place. Not that it points to Snakelet being scum at all really, checking the thread once a day or a few other things could have also led to noticing the game had started at that amount of time elapsed.
In the situation where scum do have daytalk this assumes that they have an active partner, which might not be the case. And... again, the time frame just is too tight to gain any useful information from it.
To summarize, if it'd been at the point when the game would have started regardless of confirmations or such then yeah, I'd see it as being a town tell. It wasn't though, and within the realm of possibility of finding out just by checking once a day if the thread was open yet, or by either not noticing a scum pt being closed or not having an active partner that told him that the game was started before he posted.
Though it is close to being long enough that I see Hugir's take on it as being reasonable enough, I mean I've had worse takes so.

[Rautherdir]

In the event I do survive to night, I have to consider if I should target the claimed ascetic to see if they are ascetic, or... target someone else and see if my role card isn't entirely accurate.

You mean you want to check the ascetic

IC

? To see if they're lying?

Clearly we're either telling the truth or we have a good reason to pretend, in which case you should not want to interfere with a town gambit anyway
~b

I've already made the joke about you actually being a one-shot vet instead of ascetic heh. So yeah I won't be targeting you tonight I don't think. I don't have any reason to suspect you're lying anyways, cause yeah, IC.
But as far as I know, I have a role that literally just lets me check if my action was successful, and right now the only thing I can check to get immediately useful information is you. I should probably target someone else and see if it does something else in reality, but then the question is... who to target.

[Rautherdir]

Well, I say useful information, but no one has a reason to suspect you're lying except maybe scum, so.
... Yeah I shouldn't check you.

[Rautherdir]

... Actually assuming we do elim today then I'll have exactly ten valid targets besides Hell Froze Over to choose from, which tempts me to just roll a dice to decide.

[Rautherdir]

This daystart PM stuff looks a bit OGI to me

... You might have to explain OGI to me, I'm not familiar with that abbreviation and it isn't in the wiki.

Yeah, if you're really a checker, on the contrary targeting us is just about the most completely useless thing you can do.

Your role is also a fuckton more useless now that you've claimed it since now you aren't getting roleblocked unless hell blazes up again, so you are so concerned about being useful, you shouldn't have claimed unprompted but I digress.

Also, while even mention that you have to consider checking us, if you then yourself says that it's a bad idea and aren't gonna do it? That's the same shit again like with the benediction thing, you put forth an hypotesis and then, as soon as you're poked a little, you retcon it away

I didn't know if it was a role that should claim at start to avoid doing stuff like confusing trackers or such, though the fact I wasn't compulsive should have warned me against it.
And as for mentioning checking you... I legitimately didn't think through who that information would be useful to until the post where I reasoned it out and realized it would only be useful to scum.

[Rautherdir]

... You might have to explain OGI to me, I'm not familiar with that abbreviation and it isn't in the wiki.

Out of game influence

It... yeah I'd say it borders on OGI, but ultimately falls on the line of being in game due to... yeah, the mod confirming it.

[Rautherdir]

I don't think it's useful in determining Snakelet's role though.

[Rautherdir]

Alignment, rather.

And to add onto my role being much more useless now that I've claimed it, it might still help for rolestoppers. And it might do things beyond checking without me being aware at this time, though I guess if it does do stuff beyond just checking it probably won't be stuff like a more useful investigative role where I get information from the mod that tells me it's something more...

[Rautherdir]

I mean. I'm going to do a silly and poke a hole in the meta case Feysal made for me being town, but it's been a few years since I played. My ability to play either town or scum has likely not improved any in that time, and my metas for both have likely altered some, though until I complete a few games I won't even know how it's changed or to what degree. I will say I am purposely trying not to be as self-destructive as I tend to be as town though, that... I don't think that was a good element of my town play and shifting away from that would be good. (I say as I'm currently poking a hole in a defense for me being town. And I mean, I've played mafia/werewolf-esque games in the interim so there might not have been too much deterioration, but they were much more mechanically based then forum-hosted mafia.)

Although yes the jab-and-retreat our IC has mentioned does catch me off guard time to time as well

I can explain this as me being too excited about having something I can definitively check to think about whether I

should

actually check it.
Actually thinking about it, I should probably try to catch rolestoppers instead of doing random shots in the dark, so I believe I know who my target should be tonight if I live. My role isn't really one like a vig where I should let town control the shot, since assuming checker and my placement is to catch rolestoppers, then... I shouldn't have public targets I don't think. Or maybe I do some WIFOM play with public targets, who knows. (And if my goal is to attract roleblockers then uh... welp, a bit too late for that. I probably could have done a gambit with hinting investigative if that was my goal, though I didn't even realize I was investigative at the start of the game so.)

[Rautherdir]

Hmm, well, I can self-hammer if it gets to 15 minutes or so til, my flip is probably better then me staying with how bad I've been playing this day. I perhaps should have started with a normal or something instead of a mini theme, I got a bit too salty about my role to think things through correctly.

[Rautherdir]

I'm honestly not even sure what to say about my talk with benediction throughout this day, except that it's something only town me would do. I was hoping my town meta would change after a few years of not playing forum mafia. I have been proven wrong.

[Rautherdir]

Maybe I should switch to the alt I had for future games here. Except that account had the opposite problem, self-destructive as scum. Though usually still won somehow as scum. Maybe I'll make it public as well now, then maybe I could actually get the best of both worlds on one of these accounts. Or the worst of both. That could also happen. Let me do some final reads I suppose while I wait for either Feysal to show up or for fifteen minutes til...

Off the top of my head though The Keeper and IceDragon both struck me as potentially scum.

p-edit: ah, there we are.

[Rautherdir]

I don't like KawaiiKame's entrance either, but. Not much content to go off of.

I really did not play this well though.

[Rautherdir]

I'll go ahead and spoil the outcome and say I'm going to flip Green, and that my role and flavor name that I claimed were both accurate.

I do not know why I thought emulating my town play would be a good idea. I thought that would be a good idea. I neglected to remember how outright self-destructive my town play is on this account.

[Rautherdir]

If I was playing to my scum meta I would have only hinted at benediction being benign at best. But I will say it is not something benediction would want to claim, it's in Malediction's best interests to find the other team as it is to kill town.

[Rautherdir]

Keeper might be Malediction due to some phrasing they used that was in flavor provided to Benediction and I assume would also be in Malediction's.

But yes this game is an example of why I should not actually post my unfiltered thoughts, it gets me eliminated.

[Rautherdir]

The flavor was provided in the PT, not in my role card.

[Rautherdir]

Let me find it and quote it though... it was something that could have been guessed, so I wasn't sure.

[Rautherdir]

Quote the post Keeper made that is, not the PT.

[Rautherdir]

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the

freedom to invoke both and maintain balance

is crucial.

Bolded is what I'm talking about.

[Rautherdir]

Which unfortunately could be reasoned out anyways, so. Ah well. And also in interest of supporting my win con, I'm afraid I should tell Malediction that Benediction will not be shooting Hell Froze Over tonight.

[Rautherdir]

I've actually been an informed minority that could win with town before though, in Grand Idea Mafia as a sliver (town aligned cult basically). I

might

have betrayed town at the last minute and locked them out of a win at the last moment in that game, but. It was an option I had to win with town as a werewolf! It was just one that meant my werewolf partner I had didn't win.

[Rautherdir]

Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the

freedom to invoke both and maintain balance

is crucial.

Bolded is what I'm talking about.

if that’s true, can you guys do invocation a favour and shoot them?

Neither Benediction or Malediction's intent in finding each other is to kill, but something else, though death will be the end result. It's why I wouldn't have claimed benediction unless I was going to die, even as a last resort.
I won't spoil what it is though.

[Rautherdir]

... At least I assume Malediction has a similar situation as us. I don't actually know for certain!

[Rautherdir]

It was a really close game for everyone. Would have been a lot more chaotic I think if I had actually played properly and survived day 1. Gg malediction

[Rautherdir]

I don't have anything in Benediction's... rather short vacuum that I'd redact.

[Rautherdir]

Also yeah, good job GIF/Hugir for making it as far as you did without me. If Furtive had actually claimed one-way loverizer or you'd hit them instead....

[Rautherdir]

Also ngl had I kept playing safe I prob would’ve had better chances.

But Y O L O

I mean to be fair I also decided to play to my town meta for some unknowable reason.

[Rautherdir]

Why did I do that my scum meta on this account is actually good aaaaaaa
But it's been two years and I had been playing more on my other account when I left.
It weird, my metas on my two accounts are drastically different. Anyways.