But they don’t….they just come back.In post 5566, Kaguya Houraisan wrote:As scum I'd argue having a wasted ability is better than actively killing yourself with your ability, idk about youIn post 5565, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote:Then it’s just a wasted ability no?In post 5561, Kaguya Houraisan wrote:Yeah, so she could have just claimed the redirection parts, not mention anything about dying if her target dies, then just never shot anyone she's targetting. If she's scum she'd have had to specifically suicide into Clownpiece instead of taking a shot at Aya/Koishi or somethingIn post 5559, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Well it was a loud ability. Idk how many ways you can flip it.
Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)
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And look good doing it, that’s the point of doing it.-
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Kagerou not to pull you off the dai/yuuka team but what do you think about kaguya?-
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Evens/odds is only like a marginal advantage/disadvantage. And probably wouldn’t be my main concern.-
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Kaguya, did yuuka/dai’s timing on when dai came back to thread not bother you at all?
I’ve been mulling over it for awhile now.-
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That’s what marginal means yes.In post 5579, Kaguya Houraisan wrote:
Even/odds is the difference between having 1 conftown in 5p and having 0 conftown in 5pIn post 5575, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Evens/odds is only like a marginal advantage/disadvantage. And probably wouldn’t be my main concern.-
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Dai came back after yuuka publicly voiced concern about who clownpiece was in the hood with. Dai came back like immediately after.-
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Feel better soon. Unless you kill me here, then feel bad but also better.In post 5585, Koishi Komeiji wrote: Hey team.
I'm uh, in pretty bad shape IRL health wise.
I'm not gonna have brain cells for this game until maybe this evening at the soonest.
I'm trying to follow along but my mind is super cloudy. I did want to note that the no elim scenario, my role protects against all non killing scum actions to my target as well. It's in my claim from before, wolf lass. Go look that up I can't find it on my mobile device right now. I also resolve before blocks. So it's a super bodyguard not a traditional one.-
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I was curious why it never even crossed your mind as suspicious.In post 5591, Kaguya Houraisan wrote:
What's your point?In post 5587, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Dai came back after yuuka publicly voiced concern about who clownpiece was in the hood with. Dai came back like immediately after.-
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Yuuka makes the public realization that the clownpiece hood is unclaimed, dai pops back in with the knowledge you were in the hood with clown and drops a vote. It would be suspicious if I were you. It doesn’t involve me and I made note of it timing wise.-
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That’s fair.In post 5596, Yuuka Kazami wrote: I guess I could have coordinated with them.
But then I spent hours faking ignorance when apparently, I knew the whole time what they were discussing and what their roles were.
That would be hard to fake and come off as unnatural.
If you think how I was posting was unnatural there, I'd be pretty surprised.
So this is the crossroads I’m at. Dai is still on the outside of my townreads.
I’m not too invested in yuuka/dai
I think kaguyas behavior comes off scummy, but a S/S hood with dai also doesn’t make sense to me. Not to mention they could just not mention the hood at all if so.-
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Idk maybe it’s just we have different styles. There’s a bigger thing that I can’t wrap my head around and it’s your handling of dai. I can’t imagine you were that sure of dai!town when this plan was being made if you were willing to omit or withhold info between the hoods. But things like not being put off by the yuuka/dai timing comes off like you were already in the town!dai camp.In post 5598, Kaguya Houraisan wrote:
Still not getting why this is suspicious, do you think other people weren't having the realization of "everyone checked in and no one has claimed the hood -> either Dai or scum were in the hood" just without posting it?In post 5597, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Yuuka makes the public realization that the clownpiece hood is unclaimed, dai pops back in with the knowledge you were in the hood with clown and drops a vote. It would be suspicious if I were you. It doesn’t involve me and I made note of it timing wise.
So it doesn’t line up to me, I can’t get behind the thinking.-
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I’m chugging along fast as I canIn post 5601, Yuuka Kazami wrote:
Aw, it's like seeing me 2 days ago.In post 5599, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote:
That’s fair.In post 5596, Yuuka Kazami wrote: I guess I could have coordinated with them.
But then I spent hours faking ignorance when apparently, I knew the whole time what they were discussing and what their roles were.
That would be hard to fake and come off as unnatural.
If you think how I was posting was unnatural there, I'd be pretty surprised.
So this is the crossroads I’m at. Dai is still on the outside of my townreads.
I’m not too invested in yuuka/dai
I think kaguyas behavior comes off scummy, but a S/S hood with dai also doesn’t make sense to me. Not to mention they could just not mention the hood at all if so.-
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Hey it says 4 votes to kill so am I just dead???-
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VOTE: Marisa
Fingers crossed then-
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Is this just the first time we’ve had more than 2 people active? lol-
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So I have 2 pieces of information, kind of. Kaguya targeted themselves last night. Doesn’t make them not!scum it just makes them not the one performing nightkills.
This also means either scum can’t roleblock anymore OR kaguya is the roleblocker and blocked themselves.
I haven’t looked back on the claims list but I think it can be narrowed down since multiple spell cards can’t be used the same night. Actives can be used with spell cards though.
Mech mommy tell me what it means.-
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Someone said she was quadvoter, I checked the vc and it said 4 votes to kill so I just thought I was dead. I don’t think it needs to be said to kill Marisa after I flip. Which clears you if they had flipped scum but. We’re here instead.In post 5743, Yuuka Kazami wrote: I’m not sure how to interpret Reisen’s am I dead? Post. I see that Marisa voted them then popped their ability so I get where they’re coming from. From that angle
I’m not sure if that’s the natural town response to that, since a town’s person usually would throw suspicion somewhere if they weren’t sure or struggle in some manner, perhaps with a read’s list or something. I think there may be an angle of possible relief and vague amusement in their fingers crossed post. But that’s reading into them, when it’s just not really there.-
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Sup ._.In post 5817, Yuuka Kazami wrote: And just like that Aya has gone from 50/50 to 66% chance of hitting scum.
Is it even possible to win here if Reisen is town. I don’t know if they can show they’re town tbh.
Reisen, sup?-
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The fact I can fit with any team, you included, seems intentional, no?In post 5821, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Hypothetical:
Reisen: if you’re town the scum team is exactly Kagerou/Kaguya. If you look into it you may be able to put the pieces together. I can’t because I’m not you.
Kaguya: if you’re town the scum team is exactly kagerou/Kaguya. Why are you going after Kagerou first?
Kagerou: if you’re town the scum team is exactly Kaguya/Reisen. If you can, I hope that clicks for you.
I can look into kagerou, don’t think you have to sell me that hard on kaguya. Even if you’re scum one of them is as well. I can do this.
Again I think day 1 is when I felt most grounded in this game, so it mostly comes down to do I think scum was playing around the wagons because they were all on town or was larva shifting to save kagerou.-
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Work mostly, and then I was behind and out of touch, then work again. Koichi yelling at me kinda helped.In post 5851, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Why did Reisen drop off after day one?
They acknowledge they did.
But no reason given(?).-
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Loading kagerou.exe-
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Didn’t mean to quote post before I got all the ones I wanted to hit on.In post 385, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: Making a readlists cause reading the thread is not working out
Besties
Marisa Kirisame - I could go into details but like she's just being obvtown
Eternity Larva - The second obvtown slot
Kaguya Houraisan - A common feeling i have with Kaguya posts is that she's making them for herself and not really for an audience, her overall play has also been decently protown
Reisen Udongein Inaba - maintaining that the Ascetic claim is prolly town, some individual posts like 314 or 313 i really like
Headpats
Ichirin Kumoi - I liked how sie played around the flashwagon, i hear the points about it sounding like TMI / scum anger
Yuuka Kazami - not saying that rude 100% equal good but she certainely feels confident in what she's doing
Koishi Komeiji - acting mildly towny
For later
Sanae Kochiya - Scum leaning but that read is on hold for either substantial agreement / me seeing something more direct to push
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson eyebrow
Aya Shameimaru - struggling to read through the gimmick right now
Tenshi Hinanawi - ok so maybe this is more a null read but like i kinda completely forgot who this was so not the greatest look i think
Shoot on sight
Clownpiece - I'm starting to really feel dumb for this read but clown piece is playing like how i feel a good scum player would play, will elaborate more but right now i'm not in the mood
Daiyousei - I guess i thought she had more posts than she did but under the gimmick there isn't a lot of info, her recent 349 i don't really know what to make of it so that's a work for future Kagerou-
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That’s not how you multi quote posts apparently.-
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In post 57, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
It's just too on the nose to be a credible miller-type basically? Like,In post 53, Eternity Larva wrote:
i feel the oppositeIn post 52, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role
what makes you think that claim comes from scum?no one is gonna belive that's an actual real result, and as such it kinda defeats the purpose to give it to town. Of course i'm getting into modWIFOM territory here but at the very least i disagree that it's clearing her in any way
ofc flavor reasons probably mean the claim is true, but it doesn't indicate it's townIn post 92, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: The Kagerou Townblock Trio :
Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen
i swear i have my reasonsIn post 125, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
I think we maybe should keep role analysis for laterIn post 121, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Yeah, I had assumed uh, that you were the one person whose role did not match their name.
Mod responded to me and told me they couldn’t tell me if that was the case.
Given that flavor and role seem pretty closely linked it’s not a waste of time to understand/get a footing there, in addition, there’s alignment juice there in how people interact with the information on the topic.
Uh. So what exactly is the mod trying to clarify with their note?In post 195, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
VOTE: DaiyouseiIn post 188, Marisa Kirisame wrote: Let's vote any of
VOTE: Aya Shameimaru
VOTE: Koishi Komeiji
VOTE: Kaguya Houraisan
VOTE: Ichirin Kumoi
VOTE: Daiyousei
There are probably two scum in this pool.
let's see where this goesIn post 228, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}In post 303, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: Can't really put it into words but Ichirin's reaction to the wagon feels extremely towny
Yuuka while maybe i'm reading too much into her natural mindset probably doesn't push a townie like that, thiscouldbe theater but i'm not thinking about that until a flip
and call me tunneled if you want but it really feels like clown is not pushing Ichirin in good faith-
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- Townie, also indicates they didn’t know about flavor/alignment not being tied together
- rule of three relevant for kaguya/kagerou
- Anti-fishing town indicative
-ehh this isn’t all that interesting I only added it since kaguya was involved in the pool Marisa offered and kagerou went elsewhere.
-dunno why they added themselves. I did like the theorycrafting and it wasn’t like malicious to push an angle, it didn’t really go anywhere.
-with the context of the 1v1 how likely is it scum!kagerou completely 180s on Ichirin? Genuine question I don’t remember if it was omgus, that kinda changes how I view it but I’ll get there at some point ig.
Also the readslist with larva(scum), kaguya(potential partner), myself(potential partner ig) is really bold. Not where I’d look for partner equity in general.-
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That’s cheeky I didn’t consider that.-
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Kagerou what is the obfuscation part of your role again?-
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Cuz I could easily vote kaguya and not feel that bad about it. Also kinda think kagerou is just town. So I guess I’m looking for a reason to townread you via kagerou in a way? If I’m wrong that’s where I’m wrong so that’s where my focus is.In post 5873, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Why are you looking at Kagerou first Reisen?-
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Booting kagerou.exe back up.-
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In post 420, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
i'll admit, my Kaguya read is based a lot on her early posting, right now it's a little less interesting but not actively scummy either, i'm happy keeping her where she isIn post 403, Marisa Kirisame wrote:
How confident are you about your reads? Because I have an offer for you if you are not that confident. Wait! *gasp*In post 385, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: Making a readlists cause reading the thread is not working out
Spoiler:You called your top tier "besties"! I love it! High fiveeeeee!
But if you are going to call Kaguya your bestie, please explain to me why! I want to have the same friends as you!
So, to tell the full story that's this post that's made me townbin her at first
Spoiler:
It's this combination of confident / self-centered / interrogative / focused that tickles my brain
Spoiler:
I think this is a post from a very towny frame of view for instance, both in the way she's criticizing my townread of her (ie not saying that i'm wrong but not really eager to buy it either)
The indirect tone also view of genuienly trying to recall how it went, and not like, her potentially having a scum PT right in front of her to take example from
and also i know that sounds dumb but like
town points for claiming townIn post 408, Kaguya Houraisan wrote: I'm townIn post 421, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: anyways my current vote pool is daiyousei / tenshi / AyaIn post 439, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
it would be so funny if i didIn post 436, Yuuka Kazami wrote:
You get a pass for a day phase, but if you suddenly start pushing near the end of the day and they don’t flip scum I’m tunneling you.In post 434, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
teeheeIn post 432, Yuuka Kazami wrote: And what path is that? ~_~
you're really making me wanna do it YuukaIn post 553, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote: actually hmmm
one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool
VOTE: Tenshi
-could probably go deeper on this post but just calling someone town because they claimed town is a super town thing to do
- in general you’d expect scum to throw a bone and put a partner in here. But I think this ties in with the last quote in regards to tenshi.
-more for yuuka being prophetic and then just not following through.
-establishes the tenshi shot from their pov.-
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Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.-
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So some things I like that haven’t been quoted but happened in between what I’ve reread in their iso.
The upwards progression on clown. They hit on some of the same thoughts I had towards clown at the time but were still willing to have a back and forth with them and ended up on the other side of their initial read. I think that’s what flipped my read on kagerou day 1 as well we just kinda had the same approach to slots. Clown specifically.
Also the reconsideration on ichirin. Because it doesn’t make sense for me that kagerou was willing to defend ichirin against multiple slots to then throw themselves in a 1v1 considering the paper trail.-
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I think you’re moving too sly for town. Even your analogy for playing chess here, it just really fits your M.O.In post 5973, Kaguya Houraisan wrote:In post 5970, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.In post 5887, Kaguya Houraisan wrote: Reisen why am I scum?
I had issue with you playing positionally before and it hasn’t changed now that you’re openly admitting to playing positionally.
I think you’re moving with intention in a non town way. Things like treating yuuka as town in your actions (specifically the yuuka callout, dai response/revive) while saying things like you’re evaluating them or calling them scum mechanically.
Things like skating around me because I feel like you will absolutely need my vote in an eLo situation but you can still pivot out if like, another town gives you enough leeway.
Dunno enough about make to make a claim of manipulation but would also fit the M.O.-
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Cuz I’m town.-
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I’m scumread by everyone but I could be partners with anyone…even aya! I’m biased but that should suggest that I don’t have a side playing for me to live.-
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So I think, in general my reads this game have been very accurate. Which normally would be a pretty big threat for scum. But I’m aware of my game presence via game absence and that makes it really easy to discredit or just talk over me. My reads or statements just don’t have that sticking power.-
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Town….town partners.In post 5983, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Nobody thinks you're scum partners with Aya.-
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If you’re town. Who do you think is easier to strongarm in 3p?In post 5986, Yuuka Kazami wrote:
Kaguya is pretty much, as you say, playing positionally, they do not wish to kill you this day phase.In post 5982, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: I’m scumread by everyone but I could be partners with anyone…even aya! I’m biased but that should suggest that I don’t have a side playing for me to live.
They also, refuse to directly scum read you. You're a PoE and you appear to be staying there for them.
This does not seem to have done them any favors in terms of your suspicion of them.-
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Probably, but aya is still here. N1 yeah Koishi was the target but for being the 2 clears from d2 Koishi lived a good while.In post 5987, Yuuka Kazami wrote:
Normally, scum have bigger fish to fry immediately with koshi/Aya clearing themselves after the first day. Your presence and reads is not likely to tip the needle in terms of choice of nk compared to playing around Koishi/Aya.In post 5984, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: So I think, in general my reads this game have been very accurate. Which normally would be a pretty big threat for scum. But I’m aware of my game presence via game absence and that makes it really easy to discredit or just talk over me. My reads or statements just don’t have that sticking power.-
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?In post 5989, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
Typo?In post 5970, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.-
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This reinforces kaguya a little more for me. Clown died either for claiming (kaguya/…..I think Marisa?) had that claim info.In post 5987, Yuuka Kazami wrote:
Normally, scum have bigger fish to fry immediately with koshi/Aya clearing themselves after the first day. Your presence and reads is not likely to tip the needle in terms of choice of nk compared to playing around Koishi/Aya.In post 5984, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: So I think, in general my reads this game have been very accurate. Which normally would be a pretty big threat for scum. But I’m aware of my game presence via game absence and that makes it really easy to discredit or just talk over me. My reads or statements just don’t have that sticking power.
Or the combination of clown having a loud voice/good reads. Or the ability to get to the correct reads and hold up scum. So.-
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I’ve made like 3 quote reviews, I’ve talked about my reads on your slot I’m pretty sure each of the days I was active in.In post 5992, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
Why in the world would you TR me?In post 5991, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote:
?In post 5989, Kagerou Imaizumi wrote:
Typo?In post 5970, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote: Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.
Scumreading me isn’t going to change my view since…well everyone is doing that already and ya can’t all be scum.-
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Sorry I meant from kaguya perspective between myself and you.In post 5993, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Kaguya/You.
But this is unique to me. In that I would not let Kaguya back out of their town read of me.
I think Kaguya might be easier than you, simply because I tend to come off as to aggressive/arm twisty and I wouldn't consider myself super persuasive in the context of getting someone to reconsider. I also get fed up pretty quick.-
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Nope, I’m aware of touhou, never played. But I’ve seen reisen before in a show. That’s where my knowledge ends.In post 5999, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Reisen, why haven't you commented on the thematic elements/roles this game much?
You're a touhou fan, right?-
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Fair, I’m not likely to readjust.In post 5998, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Hard to know from their perspective, in reality, just based on your posts this day phase, I'd say I'd be easier to convince than you. This is mainly because while I've been kind of panic posting about topics or issues in their play that concern me, you've just kind of been silo'd up and saying, essentially, "yep, Kaguya looks like scum to me"
There's not much room to argue with that. I'm engaging in a way you aren't they asked you 3 times to case them before you responded.
Like, what is scum Kaguya going to do with that?-
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Kaguya, I’m free tomorrow, I saw you wanted some real time interaction and I’ll meet you halfway if you need a specific time window.-
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It was commentary on what kaguya!scums win route looks like.In post 6006, Yuuka Kazami wrote: What was the point you were trying to make by asking me that question?
What did you think I'd say?-
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That if you are town, kaguya needs a slot they can manipulate and a pivot.In post 6009, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Specifics, please. Not generalities. What were you, precisely, trying to get at?
So i think kaguya was trying to make Marisa and myself a 1v1 mechanically. Then backed out with the flavor stuff. Marisa made it a 1v1 with you instead I guess. Then kaguya comes in today to avoid me mostly. I’d already spoken about being in the air about you/kaguya having one. So the assumption coming into the day is there is wiggle room with me.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Even more specifically if you’re the other townie think they need to get into your head vs a lim option that’s relatively easy to push through. Barring a paranoia vote scenario.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Think it’s more of an unknown. Plus the added wrinkle of one side is already on board with the other being town. I don’t think it would be easier to navigate.
I think you would be harder to lim for scum than either of me or kagerou but me and kagerou in 3p together is a tougher situation.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Yep. I went to the wiki and picked characters I thought were cool. So I learned a little bit I guess.In post 6018, Yuuka Kazami wrote:
Didn't you have to list out multiple touhou characters when signing up?In post 6003, Reisen Udongein Inaba wrote:
Nope, I’m aware of touhou, never played. But I’ve seen reisen before in a show. That’s where my knowledge ends.In post 5999, Yuuka Kazami wrote: Reisen, why haven't you commented on the thematic elements/roles this game much?
You're a touhou fan, right?-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Hi, I have a compulsive urge to be the hero so I decided to replace into a 250 page anonymous theme game. Can I get a rundown of relevant claims/mech info I need to know?-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Okay, that clarifies things much more. Why are you confirmed town?In post 6225, Aya Shameimaru wrote: Essentially I am confirmed town and deciding who dies today, and then people figure it out in F3.
You gotta convince me you are town today and find 2 scum in Yuuka Kagerou Kaguya.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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K, fair enough.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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From a skim of the last few pages I can see my slot is more or less unilaterally scumread, tells me scum see this as the game winning miskill. I don't expect this to be convincing but as a general principle in this type of situation, when everyone is agreeing to a kill they are almost always going to be town. A scum slot being pushed in XYLO is usually going to hae at least some level of hesitation associated with it but the easy miskills usually have nothing defensible about them. Obviously I benefit from knowing my own alignment, but yeah.
Also this - I cannot claim to have conclusive reads on anyone's alignment, but knowing my own alignment here and the gamestate I'd say youve got it exactly backwards. Given we're on Day 5 and no one has killed scum that points a lot more reliably toward conscious manipulation of the gamestate by scum over a potato team doing. Because while sometimes gamse happen where a potato team wins by doing nothing and having town kill itself, they're pretty rare IME. If you reach this point in the game it's usually because someone has been consciously moving you toward ad kills. Again - no conclusions on anyone's alignment but think your logic here is backwards.In post 6131, Aya Shameimaru wrote: also i'm gonna tell you both this, like right now
the other 2 aren't playing.
i'm jsut ruling out Yuuka/Kaguya as a possible team entirely. At MOST one of you is scum. If you're both scum, town has lsot this game anyway because Reisen and Kagerou both just don't wanna be here anymore.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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In post 6230, Aya Shameimaru wrote: For you especially Reisen, I am conf town because I had every option to murder your slot while we looked for replacement by just saying you die today given I decide who dies. From your PoV you are town so if I were scum here I would essentially just be delaying the game for no reason.
I'm a big fan of lost causes so I'll do my best hereIn post 6231, Aya Shameimaru wrote: It's a lot to ask from you especially when I am making the final choice today ANYWAY but...
The more you read and give opinions the more it helps me figure this shit out so.
Try hard away, if you can.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Will say in particular though that this feels like someone who is anxious to accelerate the day and end the game and doesn't want a replacement coming in and creating problems for them. I know my predecessor targeted them with their spellcard to make them self target, but yeah. Gut ping.In post 6210, Kaguya Houraisan wrote: I'm getting tired of waiting for stuff to happen this game. Aya if your kill today is Reisen can you just speed things along and save GIF the trouble of finding a replacement to a 250 page uPick?-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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Game reads significantly faster when I can ignore 90% of the posts on a page, at any rate. Finding one town in 3 people isn't so bad.
Initial impression based on the first ~15 pages is Kagerou looks the towniest and Kaguya/Yuuka are both posting in molds I can easily see scum fitting into. Kagerou there seems to be a mindset of actually trying to figure things out, while Kaguya is unmemorable and Yuuka goes off on what feels like a fairly uncharitable push toward Ichirin.-
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Reisen Udongein Inaba Goon
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