Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Yuuka Kazami]

*speechless*
Oh come on. They have 230 posts and a “tee hee I thought I was dead” comment.

Most of those posts were D1 where town was completely disfunctional, D2 onwards it's a ghosttown activity-wise

Yes. But why does a dysfunctional town make it harder to sort them from those early posts?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Kagerou are you saying that the proper play yesterday was to leash Marisa yesterday?
Is that really the correct one without the value of hindsight? Our negotiating position is largely, “if you don’t kill who Koshi/Aya says today or let it play out how we want you to” we’ll kill you tommorrow.

But What about a sacrifice play or the Marisa scum team had a shot(or some ability like it) or Marisa just goofed as scum because they were sick and forgot to push it through?

In retrospect, yes. I should have realized, that the wagon went through too easily, more people than usual were present and could push it through.

Marisa probably even sick would not have popped it and then forgot to vote immediately. There was a lack of tension there.

But not claiming it before hand was…sigh.
And, of course saying they had an objective guilty on me was also sigh.

I dunno. From my perspective there wasn’t a very high chance they were town faking a guilty on me and I didn’t think they were bluffing with that pop of an ability plus misreading their own ability, I know that people have had trouble interpreting their abilities, but that one in their role pm was pretty explicitly worded. It wasn’t easily missed.
So, very weird.

Oh well.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Ngl, I find it brilliant play in a town Reisen world for Kaguya to play this way.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Kagerou are you saying that the proper play yesterday was to leash Marisa yesterday?
Is that really the correct one without the value of hindsight? Our negotiating position is largely, “if you don’t kill who Koshi/Aya says today or let it play out how we want you to” we’ll kill you tommorrow.

But What about a sacrifice play or the Marisa scum team had a shot(or some ability like it) or Marisa just goofed as scum because they were sick and forgot to push it through?

In retrospect, yes. I should have realized, that the wagon went through too easily, more people than usual were present and could push it through.

Marisa probably even sick would not have popped it and then forgot to vote immediately. There was a lack of tension there.

But not claiming it before hand was…sigh.
And, of course saying they had an objective guilty on me was also sigh.

I dunno. From my perspective there wasn’t a very high chance they were town faking a guilty on me and I didn’t think they were bluffing with that pop of an ability plus misreading their own ability, I know that people have had trouble interpreting their abilities, but that one in their role pm was pretty explicitly worded. It wasn’t easily missed.
So, very weird.

Oh well.

If scum Marisa did push a lim through, she died tomorrow unless she bussed. All quadvotes are disabled in melo/elo (mod quoted it somewhere) so scum couldn't have won the game there.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Ngl, I find it brilliant play in a town Reisen world for Kaguya to play this way.

Why?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Honestly, at the current pace winning a 1v1 with kagerou would also be trivial.

Sitting at Kaguya = Reisen > Kagerou.


I have to figure this out. /:

[Kaguya Houraisan]

*speechless*
Oh come on. They have 230 posts and a “tee hee I thought I was dead” comment.

Most of those posts were D1 where town was completely disfunctional, D2 onwards it's a ghosttown activity-wise

Yes. But why does a dysfunctional town make it harder to sort them from those early posts?

Because if scum are sitting at 0 risk the entire day 1 then they don't need to

do anything

. They can just naturally post in the same way town are posting and I'm not capable of reading alignment off of that

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Honestly, at the current pace winning a 1v1 with kagerou would also be trivial.

Sitting at Kaguya = Reisen > Kagerou.


I have to figure this out. /:

It feels like you're arguing from a position that's assigned to you rather than analyzing.

Riesen's off limits. Why?
We must be in a 1 v 1. Why?
Yuuka feels like an afterthought. Why?


Fmpov, I know one of you must be scum. There's a remote chance you both are (unlikely). There's no harm in looking at every setup.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

If scum Marisa did push a lim through, she died tomorrow unless she bussed. All quadvotes are disabled in melo/elo (mod quoted it somewhere) so scum couldn't have won the game there.

If she thought she'd be at risk of getting limmed that day then quadvoting and trading like that to let her teammate play for 3p would be optimal compared to not doing that, getting limmed, and her partner having to play 5p solo

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Honestly, at the current pace winning a 1v1 with kagerou would also be trivial.

Sitting at Kaguya = Reisen > Kagerou.


I have to figure this out. /:

It feels like you're arguing from a position that's assigned to you rather than analyzing.

Riesen's off limits. Why?
We must be in a 1 v 1. Why?
Yuuka feels like an afterthought. Why?


Fmpov, I know one of you must be scum. There's a remote chance you both are (unlikely). There's no harm in looking at every setup.

All of those being suboptimal would imply the team is exactly Yuuka/Reisen, this is a hard world for me to accept

[Kaguya Houraisan]

btw Kagerou what did you get from Burglary

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Booting kagerou.exe back up.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Honestly, at the current pace winning a 1v1 with kagerou would also be trivial.

Sitting at Kaguya = Reisen > Kagerou.


I have to figure this out. /:

It's not clear to you, but I seem to have a genuinely bad time reacting to Kagerou's posts. Most of what they post sets me off. If they spam tomorrow with this level of content today. Then likely they will end up being my vote out of sheer exasperation.

If they're inactive tomorrow you can convince me, I'm slow to persuade but I am persuadable. It's unusual though. All you really have to do to beat me as town in elo is keep me occupied talking to you instead of trying to solve. It works fairly well. Even when I'm on guard against it.

@Kagerou, don't know if you missed it, but Aya dictates who dies today. Do not vote anyone until they vote. Unless you're scum, in which case, please vote someone right now. It's a really good idea.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I realize that Kagerou is capital W weird. Normally this would be a very easy decision based on how they entered this day phase and the end of last day phase.

[Yuuka Kazami]

How does Kagerou talk about optimal play last day phase and then come into this day phase voting me out the gate.

How.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Making a readlists cause reading the thread is not working out

Spoiler:

Besties

Marisa Kirisame - I could go into details but like she's just being obvtown

Eternity Larva - The second obvtown slot

Kaguya Houraisan - A common feeling i have with Kaguya posts is that she's making them for herself and not really for an audience, her overall play has also been decently protown

Reisen Udongein Inaba - maintaining that the Ascetic claim is prolly town, some individual posts like 314 or 313 i really like

Headpats

Ichirin Kumoi - I liked how sie played around the flashwagon, i hear the points about it sounding like TMI / scum anger

Yuuka Kazami - not saying that rude 100% equal good but she certainely feels confident in what she's doing

Koishi Komeiji - acting mildly towny

For later

Sanae Kochiya - Scum leaning but that read is on hold for either substantial agreement / me seeing something more direct to push

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson eyebrow

Aya Shameimaru - struggling to read through the gimmick right now

Tenshi Hinanawi - ok so maybe this is more a null read but like i kinda completely forgot who this was so not the greatest look i think

Shoot on sight

Clownpiece - I'm starting to really feel dumb for this read but clown piece is playing like how i feel a good scum player would play, will elaborate more but right now i'm not in the mood

Daiyousei - I guess i thought she had more posts than she did but under the gimmick there isn't a lot of info, her recent 349 i don't really know what to make of it so that's a work for future Kagerou

How confident are you about your reads? Because I have an offer for you if you are not that confident. Wait! *gasp*

You called your top tier "besties"! I love it! High fiveeeeee!

But if you are going to call Kaguya your bestie, please explain to me why! I want to have the same friends as you!

i'll admit, my Kaguya read is based a lot on her early posting, right now it's a little less interesting but not actively scummy either, i'm happy keeping her where she is

So, to tell the full story that's this post that's made me townbin her at first

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

Kaguyas vote on me feels the worst given they pursued a similar line of thought, although mine was seemingly unclear.

There's a key assumption you're making here that's leading you astray.

Regardless my question for Clownpiece was focused more on why those numbers came up while yours was focused on why she knew about flavor not matching to account names in the first place

It's this combination of confident / self-centered / interrogative / focused that tickles my brain

Spoiler:

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

I believe the youngsters these days would describe this as "absolutely cooked"

Also you're probably

not

in the scum PT

?

Their scum partners would explain what clownpiece was talking about.

I can count on one hand the number of games here where people actually use the scum chat enough for this to have happened

I think this is a post from a very towny frame of view for instance, both in the way she's criticizing my townread of her (ie not saying that i'm wrong but not really eager to buy it either)
The indirect tone also view of genuienly trying to recall how it went, and not like, her potentially having a scum PT right in front of her to take example from

and also i know that sounds dumb but like

I'm town

town points for claiming town

anyways my current vote pool is daiyousei / tenshi / Aya

And what path is that? ~_~

teehee

You get a pass for a day phase, but if you suddenly start pushing near the end of the day and they don’t flip scum I’m tunneling you.

it would be so funny if i did

you're really making me wanna do it Yuuka

actually hmmm

one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool

VOTE: Tenshi

-could probably go deeper on this post but just calling someone town because they claimed town is a super town thing to do

- in general you’d expect scum to throw a bone and put a partner in here. But I think this ties in with the last quote in regards to tenshi.

-more for yuuka being prophetic and then just not following through.

-establishes the tenshi shot from their pov.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

I'm not voting and I'll be out this weekend.

My order (from scum to town)

Riesen



Kaguya

Yuuka

[Yuuka Kazami]

Their wording implies that they would have tried to to leash Marisa if given the chance, but when they posted they didn't discourage anyone going after Marisa or take the reins in regards to Marisa's play that day phase, they were just like, "Oh wow that's interesting, excuse me everyone I'll just be over here, figuring out what my role does!"

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

How does Kagerou talk about optimal play last day phase and then come into this day phase voting me out the gate.

How.

I can be logical and forget things at the same time. Logic is only as good as the input, which is why I welcome being checked.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Their wording implies that they would have tried to to leash Marisa if given the chance, but when they posted they didn't discourage anyone going after Marisa or take the reins in regards to Marisa's play that day phase, they were just like, "Oh wow that's interesting, excuse me everyone I'll just be over here, figuring out what my role does!"

I had zero expectation of a speedlim.

I wanted to understand myself before even having an opinion.

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I had zero expectation of a speedlim.

I wanted to understand myself before even having an opinion.

You weren't expecting a speedlim when both conftown decided Marisa was scum and people were like "speedlim Marisa before she comes back and quadvotes someone"?

[Yuuka Kazami]

How does Kagerou talk about optimal play last day phase and then come into this day phase voting me out the gate.

How.

I can be logical and forget things at the same time. Logic is only as good as the input, which is why I welcome being checked.

What does forgetting have to do with an unexplained guilty in melo?
Even if I had said nothing about my passive that claims scum on visit, it's still the wrong play in every situation with the current information available to you.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Yuuka this isn’t working I’m just townreading kagerou more.

Reisen why am I scum?

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

So some things I like that haven’t been quoted but happened in between what I’ve reread in their iso.

The upwards progression on clown. They hit on some of the same thoughts I had towards clown at the time but were still willing to have a back and forth with them and ended up on the other side of their initial read. I think that’s what flipped my read on kagerou day 1 as well we just kinda had the same approach to slots. Clown specifically.

Also the reconsideration on ichirin. Because it doesn’t make sense for me that kagerou was willing to defend ichirin against multiple slots to then throw themselves in a 1v1 considering the paper trail.