Toriel's Patience (end)

[Dannflor]

VOTE: taly

[Dannflor]

i also claim vt

[Dannflor]

hope isis didn't trick us into playing another nightless vanilla game that would be dastardly

[Dannflor]

VOTE: meuh

[Dannflor]

it's auto win if we kill scum d1 and d2 ya

[Dannflor]

easy auto win just kill 2 scum

[Dannflor]

I'm getting popular

I think

Dunn

is above rand town

why

i thought the "taking everything at extreme face value" thing was slightly more likely to come from someone with the serious moral defect of rolling scum

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

[Dannflor]

VOTE: taly

[Dannflor]

VOTE: taly

I want to know more about this tbh, I thought what I said was pretty mild

saying you town lean toriel just seems like the safest possible thing you could say that can also be classified as game talk

and that is regardless of dunnstral's alignment

do you have thoughts on anyone else so far

[Dannflor]

VOTE: keyleth

okay i think this is actually the most likely red flip so far

[Dannflor]

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

eh i just think toriel's alignment isn't the most interesting topic of discussion and i thought starting out focusing on his slot was going to be more likely to come from scum

[Dannflor]

also i don't super get your intense focus on sorting / interacting with dunnstral off the bat over everyone else

[Dannflor]

i thought it odd meuh didn't join in on the memeing but not the scummiest slot in the game

[Dannflor]

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

eh i just think toriel's alignment isn't the most interesting topic of discussion and i thought starting out focusing on his slot

was going to be more likely to come from scum

Can you a elaborate little bit more on this please? Did you like, plan on talking about this yourself if you were scum then got a town role card and didn't do that? Honestly I didn't really think that far ahead so I'm a tad curious.

no

i just looked at the setup and was like, hm toriel is getting flipped no matter what, i don't really need to sort that slot

whereas scum has a vested interest in either pocketing that slot or making it town read enough to mercy

[Dannflor]

taly you have 2 votes on you

[Dannflor]

I'm more curious about why you think Keyleth is likely scum here, and I find that you're making scumreads quite quickly which is of note.

her tone feels a little performative in terms of expressing excitement but nervousness over and over again but i just realized while writing this that that might be an attempt to roleplay as the character keyleth

the main thing is the focus on posting and asking questions about things related to the setup or things that aren't related to anyone's alignment at all

clarifying a joke in 39

asking why you bold usernames in 47

setup talk in 52 and 63

71 feels like a question for a sake of question and not an attempt to sort me especially given there was no follow up thoughts about my alignment after i answered

i would just expect a town entrance to include something about someone's alignment before 89

keyleth is posting a lot but that hasn't really translated into approaching the game in a towny way

[Dannflor]

what do you note about me making scum reads quickly, taly

[Dannflor]

brown eyes just having some enthusiasm to start playing the game is +town

[Dannflor]

im glad I'm not a wolf way too much pressure

[Dannflor]

Plus with the whole mercy route that works in favor cause all you gotta do is find the super duper obvious people and yay! You win.

you still have to figure out where scum are the most likely to be if we go the mercy route

is taly your top town read?

[Dannflor]

how do you feel about

mandate

,

dann

?

i don't have a read on mandate yet

[Dannflor]

i guess ill take the keyleth route and say im treating mandate as town until i get evidence to the contrary

[Dannflor]

fIne, capItalIzIng the I's

[Dannflor]

keyleth when you make a post like 131

are you trying to say that you are deducting points from the mandate house

or are you just questioning their read

[Dannflor]

did i misunderstand the setup?

[Dannflor]

which means if we get two scum lims d1 and d2 and then go pacifist we just win ya

[Dannflor]

brown eyes do you want to join the kiki wagon ?

[Dannflor]

o i c

[Dannflor]

I DONT DO EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL EITHER

i wouldn't phrase it that harshly necessarily taly but i don't really know what to do with a slot that says their wim is tanking after getting two votes in the early game

like it's not clear to me why that has been your response to being pushed

[Dannflor]

guys i have a great idea what if we build a town block

[Dannflor]

im townreading you kinda

[Dannflor]

it was directed at mandate

not sure what merlyn is referring to either

[Dannflor]

how many pages is enough to start looking for scum

[Dannflor]

100% of the games dannflor is town in have d1 and d2 scum eliminations

this number is totally real just check my wiki

[Dannflor]

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

[Dannflor]

100% of the games dannflor is town in have d1 and d2 scum eliminations

this number is totally real just check my wiki

So if we eliminate town either d1 or d2, does that mean we eliminate you?

no it means isis made a mod error

[Dannflor]

I think this is a good time to ask ourselves if Dannflor is a deepwolf

and suddenly it is 2019 again

[Dannflor]

i think if i was you and town i would be suspicious of someone coming to my defense in the way sakura did

[Dannflor]

sakura did you read the first 6 pages of the game

[Dannflor]

i think if i was you and town i would be suspicious of someone coming to my defense in the way sakura did

Why?

uhh just in general if i think there are loud town voices pushing me as town i tend to think scum are going to position to look good around me

but sakura not having read to see you being pushed probably makes that moot so nvm

[Dannflor]

it's LORD OF THE RINGS aristeia

[Dannflor]

can you elaborate on your taly town read

also your me town read while you're at it

[Dannflor]

maybe im scum reading keyleth's personality

[Dannflor]

mandate do you have reasons to believe brown eyes is town beyond her posting close to game start

[Dannflor]

maybe im scum reading keyleth's personality

I don't know how I'm supposed to take this comment. So I'm just gonna laugh.

it's nothing against you

you seem like a fun person

but im having a hard time telling if some of the things you're saying and posting on are actually scummy or if that's just your writing / speaking style

[Dannflor]

VOTE: aristeia

[Dannflor]

can you elaborate on your keyleth feelings, shirou?

[Dannflor]

dann

feels like you fell off a bit in activity

yes

i dont think constant thread presence is good for my reads or for other people

what about it

[Dannflor]

Dunn

is actually town, nothing like I've seen from them typically as scum from this page alone

what specifically? dunnstral is probably one of the players on this site that i have the most trouble distinguishing specific characteristics between their town and scum games

[Dannflor]

curious as to why you think so

i get much better reads when i approach the thread like a spectator or someone who is not attached to his relationships with other people in the game

I have not been getting much that i feel great about from the thread lately so im trying to take a step back and also give room for the people who haven't really started playing the game yet

[Dannflor]

dunn

is giving nuanced and specific thought

can you please quote the post(s) and explain what about it is specifically different from what you've seen from scum!Dunn?

[Dannflor]

kinda town read taly's absolute refusal to give me what i want regarding her dunstral read

[Dannflor]

kinda town read taly's absolute refusal to give me what i want regarding her dunstral read

its not a refusal, its just me giving my most honest answer to it, i can dig quotes but it isnt really going to change what i have to say or dress it with better worded rationale

that's kind of what i mean tbh

you didn't bother fabricating a more specific read and that would've been an easy way to engage me

[Dannflor]

You do know that I am not

Shinybrassobject

and the only person who thinks that I am never played with them, right?

i thought you were

[Dannflor]

aristeia are you holding back this game for any particular reason

[Dannflor]

dan

you dont seem interested in your wagon?

I was going to comment but fell asleep writing

ari was just something i didnt want to forget

[Dannflor]

I’m inclined to town read Taly’s 749 and his trajectory on me

And by that I mean his kind of non-trajectory onto me from purportedly not scum reading me to coming up with a conspiracy theory about why im not in the thread

There’s not really any attempt to like make this trajectory obvious, and then his hypothesis that I am tactically removing myself from the thread in order to let town infight i don’t think is something that passes through scum’s head a lot of the time. That specific type of read comes from a town imagination a lot more of the time, plus it comes straight from Taly saying he liked one of my posts and me giving him a town read which feels like a less likely path for scum to take

[Dannflor]

i have more to say but im going back to sleep first

[Dannflor]

VOTE: sakura hana

[Dannflor]

also exceedingly fine with the beeboy wagon

[Dannflor]

I really think

Sakura[/bP is just town,

Dann

.

why

[Dannflor]

The optimist in me wants to think that Dann's dissapearance from the thread is because the thread is moving fast and he hasn't had time to post like he did at thread start.
Is that a silly thing to think.

I think this is a scum post

it reads as asking permission to join my wagon

[Dannflor]

Like I think the reasons you and Dunn had for pushing me are kind of hard to interact with as scum

Dunn just kinda voted me out of PoE and looking “superficially good”

That type of tone read is very uncomfortable to sheep as scum who happens to know I’m town

idk instead sakura highlights the fact im not around which isn’t really the main reason people want to vote me

It seems like she wants people to tell her it’s okay to vote me for other reasons

[Dannflor]

side note im leaning dunnstral towny because one thing i do remember about their scum game is that i think he tends to like to have A Very Defined Reason to push someone

Like a vote is always accompanied by some nitpick or attack or inconsistency

And then if he moves of he always Notes how The Thing is resolved

Maybe playing like a robot isn’t always his scum game but he feels a lot more fluid and relaxed here and i kinda think he would be the opposite if he was scum and rolled Toriel

[Dannflor]

I don’t think that follows with Sakura joining my wagon after multiple people tell her she’s not silly for thinking that

[Dannflor]

like i don’t know sakura had me as hard town apparently but the best defense she can muster is that maybe im not actually avoiding the thread maliciously


I don’t understand how she got from there to voting me or why 758 was necessary to post

[Dannflor]

I feel much more confident in mandate town but probably not for reasons anyone will like

[Dannflor]

i like mandate, taly, keyleth, implosion most for town

implosion is probably my laziest read there

brown eyes, dunnstral and meuh are some tier below that

jury is out on aristeia

[Dannflor]

i like mandate, taly, keyleth, implosion most for town

implosion is probably my laziest read there

brown eyes, dunnstral and meuh are some tier below that

jury is out on aristeia

I am also in this game

I don’t really know what to think of you yet!

what is your read on mandate

[Dannflor]

i didn't really like your posts about meuh but otherwise i have little feelings on you

kinda felt like you were trying to *get* her on some logical inconsistency

[Dannflor]

idk maybe i should consider whether mandate's read on me was specifically designed to pocket me but considering it took like multiple people bullying him to out it i don't really think that's likely

the fact is i had the same alt guess as Ari did within like 1-2 pages of the game starting and that has heavily influenced how I've been treating the Mandate slot

I ended up giving mandate a tentative town read because i felt bad i was still holding him at arms length even though i think with almost any other player i would've just been hard town reading them based on their content so far

the fact that mandate tracked that trajectory despite it not being super evident in my posts is at the very least evident that he's looking very closely at what people are thinking but not saying and i just think that's a very hard read to so accurately fabricate

[Dannflor]

Interesting stance, considering he literally twisted my words to make them appear scummy.

i don't know why you are jumping to this

i am not convinced you are hard scum but i do think my wagon was kind of in a weird place for scum to interact with and you interacted with it weirdly

[Dannflor]

can you just explain how you got from point A to point B

point A being you hard town reading me and point B you wanting to pressure me?

was it literally just the fact i was not posting?

[Dannflor]

ok thank you taly very cool

[Dannflor]

im sorry that was unnecessary

[Dannflor]

that just doesn't do anything for me unless you're more specific

[Dannflor]

I think I would view Sakura's progression more favorably if it had been a sharp move from top town town read to vote?

it's mostly 758 that bothers me because it engages with something other than an actual read on me

like i don't think anyone actually said i was scum because i wasn't in the thread and if sakura did have a strong town read on me i don't understand why her first instinct to seeing a wagon would be to interrogate people's actual reads on me and/or spell out why she was town reading me in the first place

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

i'd be interested to know what your read on me now is

sorry if you think ive been uncharitable or putting words in your mouth or something

[Dannflor]

i guess im just kinda perplexed that me being gone from the thread for 6 hours or whatever made you doubt your town read on me

[Dannflor]

i like ari here tbh

[Dannflor]

beeboy did you really just pull the “im useless d1 but just wait until we get some flips” card

[Dannflor]

V/LA 24 hours

will do my best to catch up before then but no promises

[Dannflor]

i am attempting to catch up now

[Dannflor]

ill have you know im the best minecraft speedrunner NA

[Dannflor]

No wagon has had traction from the level of disagreements about scumreeads though.

I'm suspicious of players who have a low PoE pool rn.

I was kinda curious if the general lack of scumreads has been the scum's doing all along.

do you mean you think scum are trying to shut down wagons?

im not really sure what you mean by this or why that's a thought you had

[Dannflor]

i think alisae is more likely to get demotivated as scum based off my recent experience with er

[Dannflor]

hi struggling I'm Dann

[Dannflor]

ohhh

like maybe scum are specifically angling to get to choose the elimination?

[Dannflor]

i do not think that is correct but that is a towny thought

[Dannflor]

@sakura

[Dannflor]

i do not think that is correct but that is a towny thought

what is towny about that thought

idk it feels kind of unrealistic in a way that tends to come from town

like it's kind of a conspiracy theory that i don't really think holds any water but the fact that that was sakura's first reaction to apparently learning that information for the first time feels... just unlikely to come from scum

i don't know how else to explain it other than like i don't think scum ever thinks they can or should intentionally angle to end the day in a non-majority and as a by product i think it would be unlikely for scum!Sakura to think of that here

[Dannflor]

aristeia are you holding back this game

i notice you aren't really death tunneling anyone yet

[Dannflor]

no...

i was just curious because the last couple times i've seen you as town you've been pretty committed to at least one pocket scum read

is the reason you're trying to be more restrained just lack of confidence from being wrong?

[Dannflor]

i guess you didn't really tunnel anyone in datisi's university so i probably shouldn't be surprised necessarily

but you seem more engaged here than in that game anyway

[Dannflor]

i think it's possible for mandate to be scum but i haven't really felt it so far and i don't think your reasons for scum reading him are really alignment indicative

maybe the made up reads part but i see the thread at least with regards to the read on me

but overall the whole reaction to players not town reading ppl because they are good at mafia is just something that really rubs certain players the wrong way

i mean if mandate really was shiny brass object i would probably town read them for exactly that

i can't actually argue a meta case but i just flatly disagree with the idea that the only reason it makes sense to be annoyed by that sort of read is because he's teamed with players that have good ranges

implosion idk about i have to finish catching up

[Dannflor]

also sorry you did not invite me to argue with you so feel free not to respond but while it's true I have in general life been feeling quite exhausted lately

im not feeling super pressured in this game? i feel pretty relaxed actually and like i can catch up at my own pace

[Dannflor]

im going to be completely honest i don't think mandate attracts so many scum reads if he's scum here

[Dannflor]

I could never put Implo or Dann in a townpool in D1 lol. I just played two completed games (one with each) where they were scum and I was blown away by how good they each are at looking towny while being wolf.

ah i just got to this point and this makes me sad

[Dannflor]

I'm worried about Brown Eyes :/

[Dannflor]

ok

what is aristeia doing to win the game if that is the team ?

[Dannflor]

like it doesn't seem like ari is playing to get spared

i think it's pretty clear we're probably gonna go the spare route unless someone has a slam dunk case on Dunn

i guess you could argue meuh is playing to get spared just unsuccessfully

[Dannflor]

I think dunn having an inexplicable number of town reads points towards town!Dunn on a game-state level

[Dannflor]

Just trying to seem like town who is hard paranoid of me and also setting up to try to ban my being spared if it comes to a 3rd or 4th spare where they (the scum collectively) had to kill other people

ok but like

idk i feel like Ari has to play a lot harder here to have a chance of winning as scum. There are so many towny slots and in a hypothetical meuh/ali world neither of them are getting spared at this rate

like if Ari is scum I shouldn't have to prod her for her paranoia reads on me/you/implo

that doesn't give her the town cred nor control she would need

i mean this is assuming ari would be playing to win but i don't think there's any reason not to assume that

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Meuh

[Dannflor]

I am Caught Up officially

probably not world record pace

[Dannflor]

[Dannflor]

being a bit more obvious in her pushes, taking up more thread presence

she is deliberately holding back right now and playing more reserved

and if she's like the primary scum win condition that feels counter intuitive to me

if i was in her position as scum in a team like ari/meuh/ali I would feel a lot of pressure to carry

[Dannflor]

i was very happy this game seemed to be quite non-toxic despite the "stacked" player list and now i am sad

but glad ari and mandate can do whatever they need for their health

[Dannflor]

where i am at currently

strong town!!

mandate, sakura, keyleth

probably town but if i was wrong here i would be like "ahhhhh yeah okay":

taly, implosion, beeboy, aristeia, dunnstral

confliction

: lazy shirou, brown eyes

scummy

alisae, meuh, merlyn

=====================================================

Spoiler:

i think mandate is kind of obvious town if you are familiar with how the player approaches the game, but I will try not to use meta in my case too much out of respect for the player.

frankly, I just don't think mandate is playing to a scum win condition. I don't think he needs to start and then derail wagons on multiple slots to win. I don't think he needs to derive an incredibly complex town read on me that exists to do nothing besides pocket me when I'm pretty sure Mandate could keep me in the scum pool all game long and I would happily live in his pocket all the same. I think Mandate's inclination to scum read Ari for being "against" him is probably towny even if I'm skeptical of Ari making sense in his solve. I think the way Mandate went from "taly and keyleth" are always partnered here early game to having them both as top town is incredibly towny. meta wise I think them getting mad at merlyn for merlyn's reads on me and implosion is towny. I think that the way they've tried to establish a town block is town indicative because it really puts Mandate in a corner when I really don't think Mandate is the type of player to trust his teammates to not put him into a corner to that degree.

idk I can talk more about this if needed but the scum reads I've seen on mandate (i guess mostly Ari's but also Merlyn) seem aggravated by personality or play style more than anything

I reread sakura and i think she's obv town

mandate said earlier they couldn't pinpoint a specific reason intellectually as to why keyleth is town and then everytime they read a post by her they are reminded of it. This about sums up my read on keyleth and while I could force myself to explain it intellectually i really think I'm just tonally town reading her. I think the way she's approaching the game is pretty pure. Like she has a pretty performative posting style by default but if you look at what she is concerned with, it doesn't seem like she's concerned with how she looks optically. she just has a really pure tone and this is a kind of a read I can't really explain very well but I feel very confident in.

after that it gets muddier but I think there is 1 scum maximum in [taly, implosion, beeboy, aristeia, dunnstral], hopefully 0

I think the way beeboy responded to pressure was pretty towny. I think the assumption that 2-3 scum were pushing him is unbelievable but I think it's pretty obviously unbelievable and scum!beeboy would be a little more concerned about reacting in a way that wouldn't be immediately seen as scummy. I think unless they are a very specific type of aggressive player that scum is usually pretty antsy about being seen as OMGUSy and the fact that beeboy wasn't concerned with that at all feels towny. They just generally feel relaxed despite the pressure so unless their team is like mandate/sakura I doubt they are scum

taly i feel I've already explained and my read hasn't really changed much there. tonally there's some energy coming from taly that i can only define as like... presumptuous? it caught me off guard at first but i think overtime I've thought the energy is more likely to come from town.

aristeia I just don't have any particular reasons to scum read and I think she's been generally towny. contrary to popular opinion I don't really think her gameplay makes intuitive sense if she is teamed with any of the popular scum guesses. I don't think it's like impossible for Ari to be scum and I've definitely seen her play reserved and more like a puppetmaster before in a previous scum game but I'm not really getting the vibes Ari is specifically trying to manipulate the gamestate. Even in her beef with Mandate it kinda feels like she's willing to give Mandate room to steer the game if he's town and she only really outed her scum team guess when I bugged her for it which feels pretty natural and I think Ari would've been all over that before someone specifically interacted with her for it in order to get town read

dunnstral I think is kinda town from a gamestate perspective, but he also just feels a lot less mechanical than I am used to as scum. this read probably bears revisiting day 2 but I don't specifically want to waste a bunch of brain power on it today

i think implosions insistence about there being things he's done this game that he couldn't or wouldn't do as scum is pretty towny. I think him pretty blatantly chaining his vote to his town read on mandate earlier in the game is pretty towny and I would point this out to Ari as indicative that these two slots aren't partnered? implosion has just felt pretty relaxed whenever he has entered the thread and i feel like his goal when he enters the thread is to pick out things that will enhance his understanding of the game (the most recent example being him randomly calling my concern post about brown eyes towny) - rather than trying to look town himself. idk I also just read the coalition game where implosion rolled scum and I felt he generally felt a lot more performative and aware of his own optics there whereas here he feels much less concerned with how he's coming off.

ummmm lazy shirou I should definitely have a better read on. I disliked their earlier posting and kinda glazed over their back and forth with Mandate. I don't feel like I can make an informed read on this slot yet. I thought something in their tone over the last few pages was kinda towny but not in a way I feel especially good about. sorry for the trashy read shirou!

brown eyes i don't think has actually posted anything outside of her scum range and i am worried that her falling off so quickly is scum indicative. i hope this is not the case and she comes back and resolves because i can't remember the last time i rolled town with her.

alisae I think is likely to be scum by PoE and the fact that e's had to keep making excuses about why eir not in the thread instead of just bearing that with confidence. im thinking back to Swinger's Hall where Alisae lost motivation very quickly once a town block formed and this feels like a similar scenario.

I don't particularly like Merlyn's read on me. I feel like she is kinda avoiding having to sort me and while I understand some degree of paranoia immediately after seeing me as scum. It doesn't quite jive that she describse my play as towny this game, but doesn't try to draw any comparisons between this game and the game I just finished as scum that Merlyn cites for paranoia. Like, there is no real attempt to figure out if I'm the same type of towny here as I was that game, or if there are any other similarities/differences to point out. implosion seems to be in a similar boat where merlyn is just sidestepping giving that a read altogether and I think town would tend to take slots like that as more of a challenge to read than just call them essentially unreadable?

i also did not like merlyn's push onto mandate earlier in the game after mandate was cagey about his read on me. it felt like merlyn did not want to commit to it when I asked merlyn about it. she backed off almost immediately and just said she wanted to see what would happen, but I feel like the context of the vote makes it seem like merlyn thought mandate was suspicious for his posts?

uh meuh is the slot in the game I would classify the most as "trying to get town read." I think the implosion case was kind of out of place in a way that I don't really understand why town Meuh got to the point where they felt confident enough in the read to make such a huge case. When I read the case I also don't get the sense meuh is genuinely that confident about it. Mandate said something like it being a bunch of reasons as to why implosion could be scum, and it's for that reason I don't really understand the town!meuh headspace where she felt the need to suddenly hard case implosion

i feel like her posting since then has been kind of treading water in a way i wouldn't really expect from town who had a confident scum read like that

[Dannflor]

i have done played mafia for 4 years for no reason other than the chance to play with mandate one more time

alas

welcome ydrasse! your slot claimed VT is that true?

[Dannflor]

okay shirou you can be town

[Dannflor]

Anyway my point is, do you think it is specifically wrong of me to think & post "okay, maybe today I can actually catch-up with this game and get into it" while still keeping it on low prio and then do the things I want to do and suddenly I just don't rly have time for it? I could also just not post at all or blatantly prod dodge. Would this be more acceptable than saying "guys I'm going to play maybe tomorrow" and then "I'm going to play today frfr" and then "Guys I thought I could do this today I can't I apologize." Because I think giving everyone else that is playing an idea of when I will get into the game is more honorable than just blatantly prod dodging. Blatantly prod dodging just gives off the impression that I do not care and I think we can both agree that that is just objectively worse?

uh tbh i think promises to catch up that are not fulfilled are more likely to come from scum

i think scum are more conscious about not being around

i don't think it's *wrong* of you if you're town but I'd expect if you were intentionally lurking to not care about the optics so much

regardless i'd rather you focus on literally any other part of the game than this lol

[Dannflor]

"taly i feel I've already explained and my read hasn't really changed much there. tonally there's some energy coming from taly that i can only define as like... presumptuous? it caught me off guard at first but i think overtime I've thought the energy is more likely to come from town."

((Dunno how to truncate quotes on phone))

Dann

I'm curious to hear you describe this tone in more detail

idk you have a kind of attitude that rears its head in certain places that i feel fairly confident comes from town more often

one instance i can recall is when i came back into the thread and asked ari a question and then fell asleep, and then you got on my case about not caring about the wagon on me and wondering why i didn't care about other things in the game

I've see you sort of leap to assumptions at least a couple other places in the game

and it feels towny the way I think you're first reaction to some things is a little uncharitable (I'm not saying this is bad or a bad way to play the game), when as scum you'd know people's alignments to be town and i think be more inclined to interpret things charitably

[Dannflor]

do you think I'd OMGUS you as scum ?

[Dannflor]

:/

[Dannflor]

Maybe tbh

why do you expect that

[Dannflor]

have you seen me as scum? or what are you basing this off of

[Dannflor]

What are you trying to gain from this line of questioning?

whether or not your read progression on me is fabricated

[Dannflor]

I don't like Implo's posts regarding an expectation to be townread.

why

i think this type of posting comes from town a lot

[Dannflor]

also

VOTE: alisae

I'd just like to kill alisae now

[Dannflor]

brown eyes might be town simply due to the number of people slotting her as town

[Dannflor]

i think the specific attitude of implosion's posting is like... empirically more likely to come from town

but agree to disagree or whatever

[Dannflor]

Keyleth who in the game has earned the least points for Gryffindor for you so far

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

This is interesting because in response to you saying I've done nothing town indicative my read on Brown Eyes was the main tangible thing I could think of that I think I probably wouldn't have done as scum.

I actually genuinely think that as scum there's a chance I would have gone and double checked who was on the wagon before posting that point. I'm usually a lot more willing to just hit the submit button without double checking anything as town. It's something I try to do as scum just because I often do it as town but yeah me missing these posts is indicative of me having finally felt like wanting to catch up into the game and trying to digest however many pages I needed to in a reasonable amount of time.

As fair as this is from you, I think it is eminently possible to have a correct townread on me right now. Just because you just saw me play a good game as scum, doesn't mean it isn't possible for someone to quickly identify me as town.

I just know that I'm not so masterful a scum player that I could have emulated everything I've done in this game so far.

I have just experienced over and over again that when scum get pressured on this point "should ppl be town reading you or not" they are overwhelmingly more likely to respond with "probably no" or "I'm still in my scum range" or "people probably shouldn't be town reading me" or some similar explanation

it's something that I've seen time and time again from scum and quite a bit less often from town who know they are town and believe their earnestness and genuine towniness should be shining through. whereas scum just naturally assume it looks townier to be like "oh yeah i have a big scum range you probably shouldn't be town reading me." it's some kind of reverse psychology

this is not to say that scum never demand to be town read, they do. you have to consider context and personality. but I think these specific quotes from implosion have an expectant tone that I think is towny. I think scum!implosion would have a far more realistic view of his own slot and be less likely to voice the expectation that people should be able to accurately town read him for what he's posted in this game. I think it's far more likely for scum!implosion to be like "yeah understandable but I am town here" rather than argue tiny specific points about why he wouldn't do X as scum that literally no one cares about or can prove verifiable except for implosion himself

it just seems like a town perspective from him imo

[Dannflor]

I have not hated Meuh's most recent posting in terms of analyzing the replacements

she feels pretty relaxed and natural, but I also do not think this type of posting is especially hard to fake for her


I still mostly just don't think that the amount of effort that went into her case on implosion matches the kind of understated read in 1354 and 1355

like it's not clear to me why meuh's read on implosion suddenly requires a giant case wall

yes people asked her for reasons but when people ask me for reasons i usually engage with them like one or two reasons at a time, i don't start dissecting their ISO

so it feels kind of performative and it doesn't fit with my model of how a town player would be approaching a read like that

[Dannflor]

that being said i could be wrong and i think alisae is just scummier

[Dannflor]

i think 1849 was the rest of ali's case

which

i just simply do not believe ali thinks im scum

[Dannflor]

taly im sorry if you're sad facing at me but i feel i have tried to engage with you before and ask you for more detail on certain reads and it has not been productive for me

[Dannflor]

you might consider a break from the thread

i feel when my reads are very fuzzy that tends to help more than any amount of interaction can

[Dannflor]

ali why is brown eyes town to you

[Dannflor]

okay thank you very cool

[Dannflor]

it is ok

[Dannflor]

im gonna be honest taly i have not understood for one second this entire game why you suspect me

[Dannflor]

right now it just looks like a pile of reads that was picked from a tree

i believe you just described a scum slot

[Dannflor]

implosion it kind of feels like you want to hop away from meuh but won't let yourself


what are you seeing in 1870

[Dannflor]

Freedom is notoriously hard to read fwiw

[Dannflor]

the fact they have not pinged me does not ping me

[Dannflor]

unsure if freedom wanted to be outed or not

[Dannflor]

viewtopic.php?t=91649

im thinking of this game where they repped in as town and their iso is pretty much the same as the one you just linked ydrasse

[Dannflor]

do you still scum read implosion, sakura

[Dannflor]

Sakura i think if you were mafia you probably would have voted me and made some shit up about how I am TMI'ing you town or something

nah you're tmi'ing brown eyes town not sakura

[Dannflor]

hype

[Dannflor]

I have not hated Meuh's most recent posting in terms of analyzing the replacements

she feels pretty relaxed and natural, but I also do not think this type of posting is especially hard to fake for her

I still mostly just don't think that the amount of effort that went into her case on implosion matches the kind of understated read in 1354 and 1355

like it's not clear to me why meuh's read on implosion suddenly requires a giant case wall

yes people asked her for reasons but when people ask me for reasons i usually engage with them like one or two reasons at a time, i don't start dissecting their ISO

so it feels kind of performative and it doesn't fit with my model of how a town player would be approaching a read like that

This is irritating cause I can see where it comes from but I also can't really ever reconcile this!!
The best justification I can provide I suppose is my general mentality around the time, but I can't say I remember it super vividly and even if I did, I'm not sure it actually helps you much
To me, diving into Implo's ISO gave me that sort of feeling I get when I'm convinced I'm unravelling the game and finding things out, I get really passionate and invested and it all comes into often long posts that are kind of showing the narrative forming in my head to others. I'd say the main issue is that this feeling wasn't as fully realized as previous times? The passion and the confidence still existed but to a lower extent and it's created this weird post that isn't fully fleshed out and isn't confident in the ways I have in the past while still creating this narrative in the way those other posts did. I'd compare it to this post viewtopic.php?p=13906472#p13906472 (I'm really proud of that one actually that post is great) or this one viewtopic.php?p=13763322#p13763322
I'd say my lack of strong scumreads kind of pushed me towards feeling more strongly even with a smaller amount of scumminess, because every scummy thing felt more significant, and felt more worth sharing in a game state paralyzed by a lack of scumreads.

okay

i mean for whatever it is worth i am feeling increasingly less good about pushing your slot

[Dannflor]

i don't really feel like i have a great understanding of your read on the game outside implosion though

[Dannflor]

implosion is a slot of some contention

your opinion on dunnstral's alignment would be worthwhile

[Dannflor]

or we could just lim scum 2 days in a row

[Dannflor]

i think alisae if scum is probably being bussed

[Dannflor]

I’m less confident you’re scum now alisae but i don’t really have any better ideas

[Dannflor]

paranoiaing implo doesn’t do much for me

[Dannflor]

i think alisae if scum is probably being bussed

Is this a helpful thought right now?

I just mean alisae is not trying to stay alive and spewing very little so either they are town or scum is sacrificing them intentionally

I think it’s something to consider in reading alisae

[Dannflor]

VOTE: taly

[Dannflor]

VOTE: alisae

[Dannflor]

no i don't scum read you taly this game state is just impossible to get any alignment indicative information out of and i don't think even shirou's plan of "everyone form a tight town block" is going to exert any pressure when we're still multiple day phases away from actually sparing anyone

i got bored and i thought voting you might be fun

i didn't really get anything out of it except vaguely liking shirou's reaction and disliking freedom's

but neither of those are like substantive feelings

[Dannflor]

i would just like to kill alisae

[Dannflor]

I think Alisae's read on me is technically fine but I think they overexplained and overjustified it and I think that comes across as wolfy to me. They also screamed wolf to me early.

[Dannflor]

for what it's worth shirou has been growing on me more and more in the last like 15 pages or whatever

I don't really have a reason for that but it's the only needle that has significantly moved for me

[Dannflor]

i probably should have actually made a fake case on you taly but i am tired

[Dannflor]

I was expecting a PhD thesis on why Taly is definitely and utterly scum here

maybe if I'd had more time this weekend

[Dannflor]

keyleth it is time to pick someone you think might be scum and vote them

[Dannflor]

i don't know what part of me afk omgusing an afk slot is me trying to look good

[Dannflor]

i think this game is going to be very easy if dunnstral isn't scum

we heaven mandate's slot d4 and then sheep his top town reads

[Dannflor]

VOTE: freedom

[Dannflor]

alisae do you have a read on freedom right now?

[Dannflor]

No ydrasse replaced cowbell

[Dannflor]

Freedom is merlyn

[Dannflor]

you’re probably not partnered with either of them lol

[Dannflor]

Was mandate actually raybells?

I believe so

[Dannflor]

i don’t have great conviction right now but i just have a suspicion that scum would be pushing me as a deepwolf here because like that’s just the most obvious way to start breaking up some of the more consensus town reads

I don’t disbelieve your scum read of me anymore

but freedom’s feels slimy

and he’s been occupying that middling null space all game that I’d expect scum to be in a game like this

[Dannflor]

but also i do not know how to read the slot so

[Dannflor]

merlyn was probably more readable actually

[Dannflor]

he had a push on mandate i didn’t really like and that is about all i remember

[Dannflor]

if Freedom is somehow scum though

is this implying you town read freedom?

[Dannflor]

i would clear mandate slot too off a freedom scum flip

[Dannflor]

if Freedom is somehow scum though

is this implying you town read freedom?

I town read Merlyn and I've been pretty clear about that?

Why are you asking for confirmation on this?

oh nvm i got confused and i think assumed by your last couple posts before this that you weren't directly town reading merlyn

[Dannflor]

bingle wtf are you saying

[Dannflor]

like in what world am i the best vote to you at this point in the day when you have no defined reason for scum reading me and "every part of your soul" is telling you im town

[Dannflor]

like even if you believe i have deepwolf (lel) potential why am i your first choice for today

[Dannflor]

you just gotta treat every day like day 1

[Dannflor]

i do not like the ydrasse wagon

it feels like an overreaction to a single town flip

i do not mind reevaluating consensus town reads and i think that is good and cool but i can't help but feel ydrasse is only getting heat because she is an easier target than mandate

like i do not think anyone has actually made a coherent scum point against the slot

[Dannflor]

this is not to say ydrasse is a worse player than mandate only than mandate had more thread presence and was generally more likely to avoid votes

[Dannflor]

then what's your alternative?

VOTE: sakura

[Dannflor]

alternatively bingle or freedom are good picks for scum but bingle just went v/la for two days and I'd rather wagon someone less limp than freedom right now

[Dannflor]

town core is like implosion, taly, keyleth, ydrasse

alisae feels like town now but not as stake my life on it as the above

shirou feels towny too

[Dannflor]

too scummy to be scum

i guess i shouldn't put it past Ali in particular but this was my thought

there are very few scum players who would brazenly push Fight here imo

[Dannflor]

I don't really think Ali would assume e has the thread pull to do that

[Dannflor]

what is your suspicion with keyleth, shirou

[Dannflor]

ok

[Dannflor]

I just think she feels on that "meh" spot where scum may be, her posts are fine at face-value but I don't feel much of a desire of solving the game from her

She's "just there" and I've increasingly become aware that a lot of the time scum are "just there"

i mean i think this is a fine read and it actually applies a lot to my thoughts on sakura

i just don't see it when it comes to keyleth at all

but i also can't really explain it any type of convincing way. it's just whenever i look at her posts it radiates such a pure tone. I guess I can try to later

[Dannflor]

i guess i should try harder to read dunnstral today

[Dannflor]

hi i had a really busy day at work

im going out for the evening now but i will return and play the game before i go to sleep

hope y'all are having a lovely evening

[Dannflor]

If it's between Meuh and Alisae i... dont really know which one to vote, but i'd probably go back to Meuh now that Alisae's actually playing. I'd rather eliminate freedom tho.

then vote there but explain why

I thought I already did, but Merlyn's vote on me gave me weird feelings.
VOTE: freedom

Is this not a thing for you anymore Sakura?

I heavily disliked Dann's vote and reasoning on me.

what do you think my reasoning is? I haven’t even really elucidated that

[Dannflor]

I think 2793 is very towny. That is a very specific insecurity around being good *as town* and I think AtE from scum!ydrasse would manifest differently

I think in general ydrasse as scum likes to play more to interact with and pocket specific players she likes and I haven’t seen any attempts at that this game. She’s been far more removed from the game and in a way where she’s still clearly engaged with the game and trying to figure it out. Scum kinda need relationships to survive in this game and ydrasse, a pretty social player, has been more interested in detecting rather than socializing

at least that’s my meta view on ydrasse

That is not even mentioning Mandate

Who i absolutely think we should just take at face value that he would not have outed if he was scum

I think RC could’ve won this game in his sleep by not outing and probably would have had more fun doing so

viewtopic.php?t=70532

Here is an example of him doing exactly that on an alt

He makes it incredibly obvious who his main is very early in this game because *he can’t help it* because he is town and wants to win

[Dannflor]

Also Taly me defending ydrasse is not saying we should not wagon town read slots from D1 or some sign i want to preserve the game state

I actually believe D1 indicates that there is scum hiding in the near universal town reads from D1

I do not understand where you’re coming from at all and why you claim to want to upset the gamestate but then go right back to wagoning freedom as if that doesn’t immediately follow from yesterday

[Dannflor]

Like I’m guessing yesterday stalled so badly because both scum and town were demotivated and apathetic

I thought for a bit that scum might have been just caught out and defeated and that’s why the game felt so weird. It happened recently in Swinger’s Hall and the scum team basically all got caught early and then the game just died for like 5 days before we actually decided to flip them

But I think Alisae is town now and Meuh was town

So that eliminates that scenario

The other option is that scum had 1-2 members sneak into universally town read spots day 1 and were *happy* with the state of the game

Maybe like one super town read, one middling slot that could work to get spared later

I don’t think ydrasse fits the bill but I do kinda think Sakura does

[Dannflor]

I don’t feel that Sakura’s inability to gain confident reads feels super genuine, likewise her wanting to just sheep Mandate

I feel if you look at slots like Taly or implosion who have so expressed wavering certainty, they are still trying very hard to form confident reads and push them

The most conviction I’ve seen from Sakura is when I’ve pushed her, and then her read on me feels super one dimensional

Like i don’t have a cohesive idea of why town!sakura would reflexively scum read me here despite strongly town reading me previously

It just feels like an imitation of what she thinks town should do?

[Dannflor]

Idk, Sakura if you’re town I’m going to figure it out

But it really doesn’t help me when every time i start to suspect you the slightest bit you shout that I’m scum

I don’t understand why you really strongly town read me in the first place or why you think me pushing you even lightly is so scummy as to completely reverse that

Like, you can be honest with me, is your OMGUS mostly just an emotional reaction?

[Dannflor]

Freedom might be scum and I am fine ending the day there potentially but i don’t think pressure there will give us a lot of information because freedom isnt gonna suddenly become more readable and scum were clearly apathetic about a gamestate where freedom was a top suspect yesterday anyway

[Dannflor]

There’s a possibility I’m expecting too much of a hypothetical scum team I’ve definitely been guilty of that before I guess

[Dannflor]

RCE feels towny I guess

I don’t love him kinda dodging actually reading my play this game but it probably tracks with how town!RCE treats perceived good scum players

[Dannflor]

[beeboy, sakura, bingle, freedom]

this is my hip fire guess for where all the scum slots are