Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]

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Post Post #1175 (ISO) » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:40 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

like if any of the PRs are lying imo its Dunn who specifically calibrated his claim to be the lowest power level that could plausibly have visited Luke
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Post Post #1176 (ISO) » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:40 pm

Post by RH9 »

I think rn I'm at one of Cakez/GL is scum along with one of the Millers.
P-edit: Maybe it could be GL/Dunn.
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Post Post #1177 (ISO) » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:43 pm

Post by RH9 »

Eh.
Now I think about it, Cakez only makes sense as scum with Pooky.
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Post Post #1178 (ISO) » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:45 pm

Post by RH9 »

And I don't think Pooky is scum.
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Post Post #1179 (ISO) » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:45 pm

Post by RH9 »

At least, Pooky has came across as genuinely concerned town quite a bit.
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Post Post #1180 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:23 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1173, RH9 wrote:
In post 1172, Dunnstral wrote: I don't think I am being obtuse. I don't think you have a good argument for why SirCakez is the mafia over one of the millers, or why SirCakez would true claim their role as mafia instead of claiming VT.
This is towards GL, right?
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Post Post #1181 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:07 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 1156, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: where did meuh go
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Post Post #1182 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:41 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 1146, RH9 wrote:
In post 1142, Meuh wrote: One of my initial thoughts was that scum could have neapolitan, and that a miller would mess with their results rather than cop results, but that seems kinda silly? With no cop claim, I'm inclined to think they're just named townies at this point? No clue if this lines up with what Prism would do as a mod though
So, it'd figure one of Dunn/Cakez/GL isn't telling the truth, then?
Because Luke had no way of faking a result on Dunn, given he claimed first.
In post 1147, RH9 wrote: I mean at least one of them isn't if you/Pooky are actual Millers.
In this neapolitan world, Luke could fake a result on Dunn if they were both scum, but that would leave Cakez as the only town PR and that's not very balanced. I don't think we live in a neapolitan world though if I'm being real

In general, I think the only world where Luke is scum is a world where Dunn and/or Cakez are lying about the amount of shots they have? 1-shot doc + 1-shot rber seems kinda weak? But also I could theoretically see someone see millers as named townies and that somehow swinging balance back to about even, so meh.

I'm thinking Pooky's just town, and Cakez' play around the claims actually looks fairly good here. Page 42/43 look good for them both. So maybe it's just Dunn/GL? I think you can be scum but I don't see it right now
Though what power would scum!Dunn use on Luke? Rolecops do see initial shot count in a check as far as I know, so maybe scum would want to gauge it?
In post 1166, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1165, GuiltyLion wrote: Dunn why did you claim specifically the 1-shot aspect of your role

did you consider withholding the number of uses
I did consider doing that but valued true claiming for figuring out the setup and if other claimed roles are real.
That and I didn't want to cause problems if fake claiming led to people questioning my role, like if there were another gated protective role in the setup.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
I think there's a fair chance that's the thought process Dunn genuinely had here, but as scum
Claiming full doctor or a doctor with more than a shot would be bad if there was an actual town protective. At first I thought this discouraged GL/Dunn because GL hadn't claimed yet and Dunn has no reason to fear a scum!GL claim, but Cakez also hadn't claimed, but DID allude to being a PR
In post 1024, SirCakez wrote: I'm even more suspicious as Luke has claimed he found yet another PR, which, two millers, another visiting PR, Luke
and my role
seems absurd. We should probably mass claim, someone in the PR claims is lying.
In post 1027, Dunnstral wrote: I'm alright with mass claiming. Luke should probably claim what they saw first to verify their role.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
In post 1032, SirCakez wrote: Like I did the math
I'm not a VT, to clarify what I've been alluding to. So if all the PR claims + Luke's track PR are legit that would make the setup

Ydrasse VT
Bell VT
Pooky Miller
Meuh Miller
Luke 2shot Tracker
Me non-VT
Whoever Luke tracked visiting someone
Scum
Scum

That doesn't look like a legit setup to me, thus why I think in the PR claims there are scum, either whoever Luke tracked or in the millers or potentially Luke himself. Like was said we can check him now with his claimed target.
Luke claims to have seen a visit -> Cakez claims non-VT, not the specific role -> Dunn insists Lukewarm should claim before everyone else -> Lukewarm does claim -> Dunn claims a low-power town role that even he himself noticed wouldn't contradict ANOTHER town protective claim (??? Why is this a thought he would even have as town, if I'm a 1-shot doc in a setup with a 2-shot tracker I'm not thinking there's another protective somewhere)
He's just scum and his play around the claims lines up entirely with what a scum player who visited last night would want to do here

VOTE: Dunnstral
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Post Post #1183 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:43 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 1163, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 1153, Dunnstral wrote: I don't see anything wrong with that setup. Keep in mind that the PRs are weaker than normal, and that miller is likely not a big factor in balance. Do you think there is an issue with town having three prs in a micro?
the issue is that on D1, town is not going to eliminate any claimed PR and likely not a miller claim either

so for all 5 players claiming roles to be town, it means Prism is handing the scumteam a D1 where only 2 townies are miselimmable

that seems quite clearly unbalanced, my understanding is that's why most 9p setups have generally around 2 PRs unless it's explicitly a role madness type of deal
Scum perspectiveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee scum seeing the setup as more townsided than it actually issssssssssssssssssss
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Post Post #1184 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:45 am

Post by Meuh »

Town does not have the thought of "millers are mislimmable on day 1 here"
GL is scum playing against 2 town millers he didn't feel like he could mislim
I think this perspective kinda unpairs Cakez/GL since wasn't Cakez one of the people who was sticking to not limming a miller day 1? His perspective (as town) would affect GL's view of a miller mislim (as scum)
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Post Post #1185 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:51 am

Post by Meuh »

It's Dunn/Cakez (probably Dunn) with GL/RH9 (probably GL)
Unless Pooky is faking a town perspective very well or we're actually in a weird scum!Luke world and Dunn/Cakez are both town
I feel like Dunn/Pooky is feasible? But not the most likely world. Pooky/Cakez doesn't feel like a scum pair
Pooky with a VT claim I feel is generally questionable in terms of mechs? and neither a Pooky/GL or Pooky/RH9 team looks right to me, but I can't say I've thought of it thoroughly
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Post Post #1186 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:53 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 1162, Dunnstral wrote: Mafia wouldn't have known all the power roles on night 1. They could have avoided killing Luke because they (correctly) assumed that he would be protected.
It wasn't correct!!!! BUT it is what you thought when you decided to kill Bell!!!!!!
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Post Post #1187 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:08 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 1184, Meuh wrote: Town does not have the thought of "millers are mislimmable on day 1 here"
“aren’t mislimmable”, not “are mislimmable”, you get the point
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Post Post #1188 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:13 am

Post by Lukewarm »

I think the only way I live to tomorrow (to bring my second result) is if dunn is town, and 2-shot, and lied about being 1 shot in order to bait the kill into me.

Which is honestly the smart way for him to play being 2 shot.

And kind of smarter then a 1-shot dunn true claiming being 1-shot. (Actually 1-shot dunn should have claimed x-shot).

And dunn should probably not react to this post either.
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Post Post #1189 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:15 am

Post by Lukewarm »

With that being said, I don't think that dunn is the play for today.

But I don't know who is the play for today. I am a little lost right now.

And I am gonna be super busy today, but I dedicate some time to rereading this game tomorrow
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Post Post #1190 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:28 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 1188, Lukewarm wrote: I think the only way I live to tomorrow (to bring my second result) is if dunn is town, and 2-shot, and lied about being 1 shot in order to bait the kill into me.

Which is honestly the smart way for him to play being 2 shot.

And kind of smarter then a 1-shot dunn true claiming being 1-shot. (Actually 1-shot dunn should have claimed x-shot).

And dunn should probably not react to this post either.
Dunn’s reasoning for claiming his shot count is very weak and half of it is literally “I didn’t wanna claim more shots and get into trouble with another protective claim” which is pretty blatantly something scum care a thousand times more about. Scum care more about their claim being good than about Luke actually surviving, and scum would be more likely to expect a protective counter-claim. This is reflected in the way Dunn’s handled the claim, it’s a scum perspective the whole way through.
Town!Dunn cares about diverting the kill from Luke or protecting him from one, scum!Dunn cares about the sanctity of his claim. Dunn isn’t even pretending to have the first mindset.
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Post Post #1191 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:28 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 1164, GuiltyLion wrote: either

1) Cakez just trueclaimed his role as a scum RB
Do you thing scum rb cakez would choose to not roleblock me night 1 after I claimed tracker day 1?
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Post Post #1192 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:37 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 1190, Meuh wrote:
In post 1188, Lukewarm wrote: I think the only way I live to tomorrow (to bring my second result) is if dunn is town, and 2-shot, and lied about being 1 shot in order to bait the kill into me.

Which is honestly the smart way for him to play being 2 shot.

And kind of smarter then a 1-shot dunn true claiming being 1-shot. (Actually 1-shot dunn should have claimed x-shot).

And dunn should probably not react to this post either.
Dunn’s reasoning for claiming his shot count is very weak and half of it is literally “I didn’t wanna claim more shots and get into trouble with another protective claim” which is pretty blatantly something scum care a thousand times more about. Scum care more about their claim being good than about Luke actually surviving, and scum would be more likely to expect a protective counter-claim. This is reflected in the way Dunn’s handled the claim, it’s a scum perspective the whole way through.
Town!Dunn cares about diverting the kill from Luke or protecting him from one, scum!Dunn cares about the sanctity of his claim. Dunn isn’t even pretending to have the first mindset.
You are ignoring the possibility that I just outlined in the very post that you quoted.

I could see myself as a 2-shot doctor claiming 1-shot in order to bait the scum kill. If that is true, then he cannot say that out loud when asked why he claimed 1-shot.

If Dunn is town, I think this is a reasonably likely possibility. Dunn is a smart player, and being 2-shot claiming 1-shot is a strategic play I could see him making.

In all honesty, it makes more sense to me then a 1-shot Dunn claiming to be 1-shot.

And again, Dunn can not really engage with this conversation.
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Post Post #1193 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 2:46 am

Post by Lukewarm »

The only way that I have a chance to give a result tomorrow, is if we leave Dunn alive.

If he is town, and 2-shot, he baits in the kill.
If he is town, and 1-shot, the scum team might be scared of the 2-shot possibility, and want to secure a night kill elsewhere.
If he is scum, he might leave me alive to make it look like the scum team was scared of his protect.

If we kill dunn, I die in every scenario. I am being treated like confirmed town and have an invest left.
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Post Post #1194 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:23 am

Post by Lukewarm »

I am also not seeing what scum role dunn would have that would result in him targeting me and playing today the way he did.

The only role brought up for him to have targeted me, was if he was also a tracker. But if that is the case, he would have known i targeted him, and he did not need to ask for my action before he claimed.
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Post Post #1195 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:27 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 1027, Dunnstral wrote: I'm alright with mass claiming. Luke should probably claim what they saw first to verify their role.
I don't think scum!tracker!Dunn approaches mass claim this way.

Proving my role, and letting me out I targeted him first, both help my claim more then his.

Scum!tracker!Dunn wants to claim before me, so it looks better for him.
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Post Post #1196 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:28 am

Post by Lukewarm »

But i can see town!doctor!Dunn, who does not know my alignment, wanting the path that gives the most info about me.
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Post Post #1197 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:29 am

Post by SirCakez »

I don't think Dunn is scum because then town had 0 protective power. Luke's role + Dunns + me is a perfect level of town power.
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Post Post #1198 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:29 am

Post by SirCakez »

Also him being 1-shot aligns with me too
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Post Post #1199 (ISO) » Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:40 am

Post by SirCakez »

I think we should eliminate in the Miller or VT claims today
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