Kemusan - Game Over

[fferyllt]

What's a good way for town to approach this phase? I read a couple of pairing phases of other dance games but I'm not sure what's optimal.

[fferyllt]

What's a good way for town to approach this phase? I read a couple of pairing phases of other dance games but I'm not sure what's optimal.

God damn Fferyllt r u scum

Nope! I saw my role PM and I started snapping my smug, smug fingers.

[fferyllt]

I dunno, I just try to pair with town because I like living and I don’t like the responsibility of having to decide whether to leave my partner so I’d rather feel comfy and relatively good about a town pairing.

I want to pair with someone I can read, but I don't necessarily trust others to read correctly. And stay at least one double cappuccino away from paranoid spiraling.

[fferyllt]

I’ve been declined by ff.

Since everyone can read me.

*tears*

Aren't we both gents?

[fferyllt]

i can't be only one who can't see fferyllt is obvious scum

I don't really care how you read me. There are players in this list who haven't lost their cards so far. So, I'll focus on players I can read, and/or who incite aforementioned paranoia.

[fferyllt]

Anyways, ff is clearly shaking off their carbon freeze and are clearly town this game.
Clearly.
Clear rly

Oh, Bell. Carbon freeze, yes.

Clearly town? To you? That's new territory.

You're not adorable atm.

[fferyllt]

Cabd, though, should already be able to read me off my posts so far.

And, he better get it right.

[fferyllt]

Cabd, though, should already be able to read me off my posts so far.

And, he better get it right.

wine about it more :smugcat:

Whine?

Might need to get your eyes checked.

Who do you want to pair with?

[fferyllt]

Cabd, though, should already be able to read me off my posts so far.

And, he better get it right.

*tilts head*

It’s like one of those toy dolls you squeeze and then they say one of their catch phrases.

Dancing is how I start all games. I'm not dancing this one in stiletto heels.

[fferyllt]

Cabd, though, should already be able to read me off my posts so far.

And, he better get it right.

wine about it more :smugcat:

Whine?

Might need to get your eyes checked.

Who do you want to pair with?

i don't know friend, i have no illusions about living to the end of this game it's a dance game i'm here to find scum and meme about it

i'd preferably like to pair with someone i think is realllly townie so i can survive and impact the game and maybe force scum to kill me so there's no paranoia on me or someone REALLLYYYY scummy so i can leave the dance and go wheeee eat lead

I wish I had confidence in sorting you.

[fferyllt]

Ff is really stilted but I feel like that's just her

I have no l other reads at this time

It's just me. But which me is it?

Tangentially, I like that you feel open and relaxed. Please stay engaged.

[fferyllt]

I’m imagining everyone dancing rn, and ff just walks in and walks to the center, no rhythm, no groove, just straight business not even their dress shoes clicking together when they turn to address the crowd, not even cheese.

So what does it mean when I take the center, and do NOT blend in?

[fferyllt]

Only last time IC was a gent and there were more Ladies.

Wait.
This is the same setup as Holiday Dance Party lol.

hm

Why do you think Firebringer is town?

[fferyllt]

I’m imagining everyone dancing rn, and ff just walks in and walks to the center, no rhythm, no groove, just straight business not even their dress shoes clicking together when they turn to address the crowd, not even cheese.

So what does it mean when I take the center, and do NOT blend in?

That you’re me at my absolute dorkiest.

You've taken a couple of potshots. Are you getting anything useful?

[fferyllt]

Hi.

Greetings.

Salutations.

The world greeted me with both a feverish toddler AND 50k in damages flooding in my basement today.

It's 11:40 PM, I'm on like my 3rd caffeine-weed pill of the day, and I am fucking exhausted.

But out of the goodness of my heart, I will declare thusly: Ffery is so badly missing her old haunts that she's decided to just blitz through all the buzzwords now to get to the meat early. And... groan.... that means my chances for taking the leg up in our perpetual (not mylo fuck that setup) grind are up in smoke.

I'd say you snooze you lose, but that's about as far from snoozing as life gets.

Do you want to scope out the gameplay a bit, or are you ready to commit to a neighborhood in flames?

[fferyllt]

BTW ffery I'm 150% taking it for granted that you're gonna want to dance with me, I'll be waiting. You'll get there eventually. Let me know when! Or you know, faceplant. That's a choice too.

I 150% wouldn't trust you neighboring with most of the gentlemen. It's foregone.

So, when do you think I started graffiti-ing up my notes PT?

[fferyllt]

welp. I messed that quote up.

[fferyllt]

fferyllt desperately trying to blend here. Its adorable

It's okay she can just hide in a hood with me and post 80 pages in 24 hours, and then I'll let the thread know. (But she's already clearly eager to dance, so if she's scum, she has one HELLUVA team behind her, and no offense to anyone, but I'm trying to think of three names that ffery draws out of you lot that makes her this eager to go go go in her first game back, directly at me.)

You get me.

Maybe.

[fferyllt]

Are you sure you wanna go with what she’s trying to present herself as instead of what she’s usually like, which is somewhat awkward as scum.

That adage is about ten years out of date at this point in time.

Morph scum rehab was a THING.

Cabd and FF are scum, Pooky, I didn’t sign up for this.

okay but if you really think this cant we habe them pair up generate a solve while doing a few elims then leave to have their alignments proven so we know who and what to trust

Cabd is taking a very real risk that I wake up in the middle of the night and leave the dance. If he's town and I know it, we'll both burn bright and flash to nothingness. I want to be in the game long enough to make a difference, but I have no illusions about my shelf life.

[fferyllt]

I have about 2 minutes left in me before I actually do go shower and hit the hay, by the by.

okay quickfire reads list go

ffery town
The rest of you lot insignificant until I actually trust myself to not take back the first one, or decide to blow us both skyhigh in a fit of paranoia. Or SHE decides to blow us up in a fit of paranoia. It's our destiny.

Are you ready?

[fferyllt]

Actually I was going to try to avoid asking for or listening to either of you because I recently reviewed an old game and you were complaining about that.

It was true two years ago so it must be true today. ‘_’

I'm not sure precisely what was true, but many things have been true since mid-2013.

[fferyllt]

Did you miss us that much, Bell?

Oh you're still here!

~bows and clicks heels~

May I have this dance?

[fferyllt]

Actually I was going to try to avoid asking for or listening to either of you because I recently reviewed an old game and you were complaining about that.

It was true two years ago so it must be true today. ‘_’

Oh shit, he's cute again.

He's cute, but not entirely adorable so far.

[fferyllt]

Did you miss us that much, Bell?

I like you guys.

~scritches your ears~

[fferyllt]

What gives. You're handing over the quicker to bell alignment card too? He's the biggest puppy dog bell I've seen in years.



To be fair he's the only bell I've like, actually seen, in years. But still. It's no fun if you give me all the first points. Are you looking down on me?

Maybe it's the carbonite. I really liked his first few posts, but he's been harshing my buzz since then.

From what I remember, Firebringer tends to throw his weight around in dance games regardless of his alignment. Still, slightly reading him as town just because he's fearlessly messing with the cats.

[fferyllt]

What's a good way for town to approach this phase? I read a couple of pairing phases of other dance games but I'm not sure what's optimal.

God damn Fferyllt r u scum

I was actually hoping you'd answer this question.

[fferyllt]

The last game I was with FF in, when they were alone, was in Luke's debut I think. I was writing more creatively because I didn't have to hunt and didn't know wtf to say so I kind of hid in audacity/smugness and tried to let FF kill themselves on Luke's ego.

It was a lot messier and I sucked and I replaced out because of work, but I think FF would suspect me for writing creatively here, though what they're saying doesn't quite fit with what I think they would be looking for. Then again, I don't really know what FF looks for. Other than the whole trajectory thing and Cabd code words. I don't know how other people think.
I also don't think they would like me pushing them and find their response natural, but not AI.

You-reads exist outside my overall approach to mafia. I usually townread you pretty easily, and I'm probably holding back right now because while you sometimes vote me shortly after entering the game, It's pretty easy to see how you're processing the game, and town-you figures me out pretty well. Cabd is right that I take pride in my can-read-Bell cert. I'm just not feeling a resounding sharp note right now.

[fferyllt]

So just, you know, figure me out then take my word for it because it'll be right regardless of my own alignment.

So why should he figure you out if you'll be right regardless of your alignment?

For the record, I expected a quick and accurate read from you regardless of your alignment the second I saw my role card.

[fferyllt]

fireisredsir,

Do you make a habit of trying to vibe read players you don't have much experience with?

I've played with you once in Pooky's PYP game about a year ago. I replaced into a scum slot early day 2. You replaced in much later. I was playing a competent scum game until I came down with covid. I think I can be vibe read by players who know me, but it's going to take more experience than one game with me. Especially that game.

[fferyllt]

i gave actual real effort into putting my thoughts to paper and no one paid attention but the scum who came in to defend hisself =(

I read it. And I appreciate it.

My pretty limited experience with STD is that it seems like he approaches every game a little differently and I don't even know if he prefers scum or town roles. You're using an interesting lens, but it's not one I can use. I haven't spent much time trying to figure him out yet.

You're being an enjoyable part of this game so far. I think this design actually leans somewhat toward enjoyment, at least in this phase.

It scares me a little that I keeping thinking about your posts as coming from town.

[fferyllt]

Bell. How are your reads shaping up?

[fferyllt]

ffery im curious what your motivation behind 292 was. like what were you hoping to get out of it?

I have a very wispy idea of how you play as scum, and an even wispier idea of how you play as town.

It was mostly to see your answer and try to engage you.

Speaking of which, since vibes aren't a big part of your sorting process what data channels do you like to use?

[fferyllt]

data channels is probably on the bingo card. it should be.

[fferyllt]

RH slightly up.
Fir I’m neutral on.
You and Cabd remain the same.
FB still town but some head scratchers now. I should probably just town bin them to spite them if they’re actually town.
I’m not trying to read LLD while they may or may not be baked, their acknowledgement request I’m not sure if they’re serious or if it’s manipulative or what I’m even looking at. You responded to it though, such a nice lady.
STD: they’ve been entirely unreadable except when they said they missed Cephrir which made me do a “I should maybe try to write a book about whether STD can be read on this one post”
It was surprising, that he missed Cephrir or even brought it up. I guess someone said something about them seeming comfortable which I guess might be true.

I go through this cyclic thing with LLD. I could write a couple paragraphs here, but they'd be half-gibberish atm.

I feel like I've hardly noticed half the people who've posted so far. I'm always going to prioritize sorting Cabd, and I know that our sorting dance is loud and probably annoying to some. And it also occupies a whole lot of brain cells.

The good news that there's no need to communicate morphologically in this game.

STD is in that pile I need to pay more attention to.

Why is RH9 slightly up?

[fferyllt]

it just seemed like a dead end because it was pretty much entirely covered already in my post

but i also do think ffery wasn't passing the vibe check so idk. i don't really have a baseline for ffery so im not sure if that's a good way to read her

"ffery not vibing but idk if vibe reads are good bc i don't have a lot of experience with her"
"hey fire, you don't have a lot of experience with me. don't you think vibe reads are a bad approach?"
"see above"

it feels more like wanting to get a thought expressed about how the read should be discounted than like a probe that would actually lead anywhere productive because it's just restating what i already said. idk it just seems oddly lacking in insiciveness

I'm not feeling very incisive yet. And I wish I had a dollar for every time a player says my questions lead nowhere productive.

I'd like an answer to my later question, though, regarding what kinds of data you do like to process into reads?

[fferyllt]

I like RH9 for town for now

Hi.

What do you think of LLD's read basis of you?

[fferyllt]

FIR might be scum but they’re probably right about RH. Still early but they’ve escaped somewhat from the confines of “I do not care if this persons lives or dies their every post is a void where my mind goes to die”

I wouldn't put it in quite those terms, but RH9's first couple of posts pinged. Later posts not so much.

[fferyllt]

Bell's adorable. Done.

[fferyllt]

Have you read anything yet?

[fferyllt]

I dunno, I just try to pair with town because I like living and I don’t like the responsibility of having to decide whether to leave my partner so I’d rather feel comfy and relatively good about a town pairing.

I want to pair with someone I can read, but I don't necessarily trust others to read correctly. And stay at least one double cappuccino away from paranoid spiraling.

So you definitely want me :^)

It's a difficult choice.

[fferyllt]

I'm all ears.

I was just crying into my notes PT about my severe lack of reads a little while ago

Also, I knew and Bell would dance the minute I saw you /in

[fferyllt]

I'm all ears.

I was just crying into my notes PT about my severe lack of reads a little while ago

Also, I knew and Bell would dance the minute I saw you /in

If you hear them, you might end up being even more depressed. Do you proceed?

Yes.

[fferyllt]

I'm all ears.

I was just crying into my notes PT about my severe lack of reads a little while ago

Also, I knew and Bell would dance the minute I saw you /in

If you hear them, you might end up being even more depressed. Do you proceed?

Yes.

I have a guttown read on LLD and a townlean on Cabd for some unorthodox reason.

Could you tell me which of Cabd's posts lean town?

[fferyllt]

Actually I’ll just tell you.
I just think Cabd would be more cautious before talking about dancing fery, is all.
Dude just came back from long hiatus (as there is no such thing as retirement in mafiascum, only hiatus and a longer hiatus) and if he’s scum, dancing town fery would be one hell of his welcome back ride for him.

You gave that away really early!

I think scum-Cabd would relish the challenge regardless of hiatus.

[fferyllt]

Spiffeh that is a surprising amount of sync. Reminds me of WH13.

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

[fferyllt]

Actually I’ll just tell you.
I just think Cabd would be more cautious before talking about dancing fery, is all.
Dude just came back from long hiatus (as there is no such thing as retirement in mafiascum, only hiatus and a longer hiatus) and if he’s scum, dancing town fery would be one hell of his welcome back ride for him.

You gave that away really early!

I think scum-Cabd would relish the challenge regardless of hiatus.

I sure did!

And after your recommendation to RH9, too.

[fferyllt]

I'm curious how Gypyx's scum game has evolved since 2021.

[fferyllt]

Oh, that’s you specific :^)

I know, but you can never keep the pokerface.

It cracked a little early though. :/

[fferyllt]

granted maybe i'm overevaluating how ffery / cabd would naturally want to pair themselves, i'm not really up to date on the mafiascum social hierarchy

We've hydra'd together so much that Morph the Cat has its own meta.

And the games we've played together not in our hydra? I wouldn't even try to count. Or maybe I will out of curiosity.

The only question is why I'm willing to torture myself voluntarily here. The answer is I also relish challenges.

[fferyllt]

Spiffeh that is a surprising amount of sync. Reminds me of WH13.

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

Me! My will is stalwart, and I’m too good at this game for some firebird to manipulate me

Since it cannot be, who would you like to see LLD paired with?

[fferyllt]

Spiffeh that is a surprising amount of sync. Reminds me of WH13.

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

or we could do an LLD+scummy gent pair that way it will absolutely be doable to get them out?

are scum/scum pairs bad for town?

I think they were tried in a couple of early dance games and were worse for scum than town. But I wasn't paying close attention when this design was new and novel.

[fferyllt]

My inner sadist straight up tells me Enchant.
But I’m p sure that’s not the answer you want.

Lukewarm recently shared a good opinion of mid-late game Enchant with me. I'm not totally averse from that perspective, but if it would make for an awful hood experience I'd pass.

[fferyllt]

Spiffeh that is a surprising amount of sync. Reminds me of WH13.

At this table who among the gents do you think aren't easily manipulable by a hypothetical scum LLD?

So I am easily manipulated by scum LLD but I think my constant paranoia and fear of her scum game would outweigh anything she could do to me so I am willing to pair with her. I selfishly kind of don't want to because I don't want to be in a position where I end up taking us both out as town due to said paranoia and ruin the game for everyone. But I am good with pairing with her if people think it could be optimal, and she accepts of course.

Take all of this with a grain of salt as I have never played this setup before and I'm trash at mechanic-talk, AND I want to ensure everyone's posted and weighed in before making decisions like these, but these are the pairings I've been thinking up in my head:

fferylit/Cabd
Spiffeh/LLD
Ydrasse/someone scummy
Bell/anyone

Assuming all of us were town (statistically unlikely), scum would have some pretty powerhouse pairs to decide on killing and it would ensure at least some people I work well with/trust would be in the game by the last two phases which is what I care about.

I endorse Bell/HST

[fferyllt]

You funny. I’ve been posting here since like 3 am in the morning.

isn't the "m" in "am" morning?

No. Meridian. Ante and Post

[fferyllt]

anyone more familiar with cabd than i am know how he generally feels about playing scum?

He loves playing scum.

Specific to this game, I think he would have wanted a green role card in a game where he'll be shaking off a couple of years worth of rust while under a microscope.

[fferyllt]

I dunno what Cabd likes more, all I know is that he’d run through razor wire to win as scum.
Or town really lol.

Do you have a HST read?

[fferyllt]

Oh, I did hallucinate that they asked me to dance.
Or Pooky didn’t update their board.
Either or.

He did ask, but for Pooky's purposes you have to ask HST. So think of it as an invitation for you to invite.

I'm townreading him, and between Spiffeh and him (and you), I feel like I have a structure I can use to evaluate other stuff. And that's a good feeling.

My one footnote is that the poker face about his read on me slipped so quickly, unless I just misunderstood his post.

[fferyllt]

Speaking of which, since vibes aren't a big part of your sorting process what data channels do you like to use?

Spoiler: i don't think this is relevant to the game and it's too long so it goes in a spoiler

actually in general vibes are a somewhat big part of my process, particularly early. but i don't think the vibe reads are worth very much if i don't know the person well. i think they can be pretty effective with people i do understand but it's still like a starting point, something that indicates to me that i should look further

i don't think there's really a consistent rubric that i apply to people for the sake of sorting, but i tend to try to look beneath the words on the page to think about the thought process of the person who wrote them. and then weighing up whether there's a possible thought process that makes sense coming from a town brain, and whether there's one that makes sense coming from a scum brain

i would say this is probably my biggest metric for reading someone as evidenced by the fact that i find it very difficult to know how to sort someone if i feel like i don't understand how their brain works. i would also tangentially say that the investigative but never conclusive process of discovering how someone else's brain works is probably the main motivator for me to play mafia at all. it's somewhat rare to find an activity where people put their brain so openly and publicly on display

in practice this results in me looking for actions and posts that stand out as not making sense coming from one alignment in particular, and those tend to form the strongest bases for my reads

i do also like just talking to people and having real time interaction and reading them that way, although im not always confident that it leads to successful results. depends on the situation

and i tend to look at the game/gamestate as a whole and try to think about how scum would want to position in the current state of things, both individually and as a team, and what their goals would be. i probably tend to overestimate the level of coordination that scumteams have. this tends to be most useful in hindsight, rereading the game to see if someone's actions can be viewed in a different light if we assume that they at the time had alignment information that we as town only got later in the game

those are probably the main data channels although also probably not the only ones

Thanks. I see some of this in your play so far.

But I am concerned by how uncharitably you interpreted that post you jumped on.

[fferyllt]

Spiffeh is... Town......?

Is that a read or a question?

[fferyllt]

But I am concerned by how uncharitably you interpreted that post you jumped on.

i find it difficult to understand a town mindset behind making the post and i find it easy to understand a scum mindset behind it

i still don't really see how it's a line of inquiry that would be relevant to my alignment and if it's just for the sake of engagement then it's also strange because it provides very little to actually engage with since it's a complete dead end

I've watched you play in a couple of games, and my sample size trends scum atm. I asked you to self-meta a little because I thought it might confirm or rebut some my impressions from the bleachers, though self-meta is generally not a great data channel. I do feel a little more confident about interpreting your posts, particularly the one we're talking about right now.

I self-meta more than I probably should in any world, but not having played a game in nearly a year I've actually been trying to put data into the thread that should be helpful to players who don't know me, or don't know me well.

ATM, I'm not townreading you, either.

[fferyllt]

Wait, we have a "side" of mafiascum now?

I missed this memo.

That side hardly exists for the likes of us.

[fferyllt]

I saw it in the tea leaves when the /ins hit the signup thread.

[fferyllt]

Would 10 euros buy you a trad double cappuccino? If so, you have my deepest condolences.

[fferyllt]

I've watched you play in a couple of games, and my sample size trends scum atm. I asked you to self-meta a little because I thought it might confirm or rebut some my impressions from the bleachers, though self-meta is generally not a great data channel. I do feel a little more confident about interpreting your posts, particularly the one we're talking about right now.

this as a mindset makes sense to me, but the reason things felt off to me is that it didn't seem like the post lined up with this. the focus was more on explaining why i shouldn't be reading you that way, rather than on just directly asking me what my data channels are, if that was your goal

I was cautioning you, yes.

In other news, Cabd was very inaccurate about how excited I would have been to open a red role PM. Which is

interesting

.

[fferyllt]

Would 10 euros buy you a trad double cappuccino? If so, you have my deepest condolences.

sorry i don't speak starbucks

What have I done to merit such an insult?

Actually that was california-speak for "cappuccino" in your parts. American-style capps have way too high a ratio of milk/foam to espresso compared to the original.

[fferyllt]

Heh!

I thought he meant the mishmash/social game side of the site.

[fferyllt]

In other news, Cabd was very inaccurate about how excited I would have been to open a red role PM. Which is interesting.

Wait, wat?

It would have been fun to draw red against you here. Or with you for that matter. But, the reason I stopped playing last year was because of deep, melancholic scum exhaustion after 3 scum rolls in quick succession.

[fferyllt]

Heh!

I thought he meant the mishmash/social game side of the site.

she / her pls

I'm sorry, Gypyx. Very, very noted.

[fferyllt]

In other news, Cabd was very inaccurate about how excited I would have been to open a red role PM. Which is interesting.

Wait, wat?

It would have been fun to draw red against you here. Or with you for that matter. But, the reason I stopped playing last year was because of deep, melancholic scum exhaustion after 3 scum rolls in quick succession.

I mean that's not exactly the reason I quit for the long bout, but my prior attempts at "coming back" did seem to be a red magnet. But you and I both know that you too would crawl over barbed wire and enjoy every masochistic second of it for the win, so...?

I would. Or would die trying. But Notsci's me-tell about what the sight of red in my role pms does is as accurate today as it was in 2014.

[fferyllt]

Ff is transparently town?

Yeah, you’ll catch up eventually

Ngl, I might single handedly lose this game on this FF tunnel. I haz regrets about giving ff too much rope.
I kind of think all three of us do.

Dw I don’t think I ever misread fery before. But then, I don’t remember playing against fery-scum either.

IIRC you spotted me in Newbie 1436 as a spectator. That was quite a while ago.

[fferyllt]

Somewhat. I got over the posting rate difference. There are a lot of weaknesses still.

Just asking for clarity. I’ve got a really stupid reason to townread you on and I like the pairing with HST.

This is only slightly this-game relevant, but I have a question for you. In the First FGO game, as Ruler 2 you mentioned 2-3 times that you thought you knew who Alter Ego was. Did you actually have an identity guess there?

[fferyllt]

won't be around much the next 24 hours (unless I'm phone posting tonight) so I decided to reread and have honored my promise of reevaluating Firebringer in that he is no longer a townread.

I feel like his scum reads on ffery and Bell may just be for shock value to play into his chaotic town gameplay because it's hard for me to believe that he actually feels that way as they are transparently town to me. And while I don't want to discourage his effort-posting I think he's dipping his toe into exiting troll mode little earlier than I've come to expect from town!FB, but I also haven't been playing games the past two years so what do I know?!

Bell is actually null to me. I just wanted to his reaction to me calling him scum.
Didn't get me much

Fferyllt is scum, and her reason for putting me as town was also just personality based/throwaway reasoning so she could ignore me.

if u want to explain those two as town go for it. Ive played as scum with fferyllt before, and bell is neutral for me so go for it.

Also the reasons cabd/fferyllt say bell is town are just silly. "if he is adorable he is town and if he is not scum" like...no. Bell is annoying as town. If not annoying scum. Thats the actual gut feeling reads if ur going to do that.

My slight townread is about 50% not going to worry about sorting you for now. I've pretty much always scumread your (town) play early-mid day 1 of the games we've played and been wrong. So maybe I should be townreading you for stuff I find scummy. Maybe I don't have to figure you out this time. Maybe I'll eventually get you right regardless of your alignment. Maybe I'll take strong townreads' opinions into account.

Regardless, I'll save the brain cells for other reads for now.

[fferyllt]

Gesundheit.

Who do you feel you're good at reading at this table?

[fferyllt]

My slight townread is about 50% not going to worry about sorting you for now. I've pretty much always scumread your (town) play early-mid day 1 of the games we've played and been wrong. So maybe I should be townreading you for stuff I find scummy. Maybe I don't have to figure you out this time. Maybe I'll eventually get you right regardless of your alignment. Maybe I'll take strong townreads' opinions into account.

Regardless, I'll save the brain cells for other reads for now.

yeah see the thing is last game i just finished 2 out of 4 scum both said they couldn't read me right and refused to go into any reasons on me then just gave bs excuses to townread me or weak scum reasons without pushing me.

So i take this whole "i am not going to think about you" as a scum claim from u.

Ok, you've clearly demonstrated you have no fucking idea how to read me so far.

So, you'll either get better and figure it out, or I'll laugh at you forever until you do actually demonstrate some level of competence at reading me.

Since you've decided everything I post is scum-indicative, I'm sure you'll find some more bricks for your tunnel in this one. Have fun with it.

[fferyllt]

Who do I ever feel good about reading at any table wtf

It can be a sliding scale.

I think I'd give up the game forever if I didn't believe I can read at least some players.

*ahem*

FB, spiffy, HST, but only if they’re gif and only if they got over their problems.

Do you have reads on any of them at the moment?

I'm feeling pretty solid on 2 reads in that group. What problems does HST need to get over?

[fferyllt]

I can't believe I just barely missed the live showing of the Mafiascum Central roast of Ffery the Lit.

I'm trying to figure out how much I should be showing my work atm. And also how much I should pester you for reads atm.

[fferyllt]

Wait, I thought I was pretty clearly shitposting and doing conversational style, and that we were gonna compare notes in the morphcave once I was done chumming it up?

You are. And lollygagging.

[fferyllt]

Even my avatar is looking at you like "Duh".

I don't know what your Cabd-model (That usage is my own so doesn't check off the bingo square) thought would happen in an unretirement game with this crowd, but uh, here we are, so adjust accordingly!

This approach might be different if I wasn't processing the basement flood 2.0: electric bugaloo. But my old style AND my newest style aren't fits for my time and posting constraints.

Yeah, I know. I still have expectations, which I'm calibrating. Hence that post hitting the thread.

[fferyllt]

Even my avatar is looking at you like "Duh".

I don't know what your Cabd-model (That usage is my own so doesn't check off the bingo square) thought would happen in an unretirement game with this crowd, but uh, here we are, so adjust accordingly!

This approach might be different if I wasn't processing the basement flood 2.0: electric bugaloo. But my old style AND my newest style aren't fits for my time and posting constraints.

Yeah, I know. I still have expectations, which I'm calibrating. Hence that post hitting the thread.

When I am able to switch gears, you won't really need to ask, it'll be pretty evident. In the meantime, you'd best start digging out your Cabd-roast folder.

points at your title

[fferyllt]

lmao

[fferyllt]

Somewhat. I got over the posting rate difference. There are a lot of weaknesses still.

Just asking for clarity. I’ve got a really stupid reason to townread you on and I like the pairing with HST.

This is only slightly this-game relevant, but I have a question for you. In the First FGO game, as Ruler 2 you mentioned 2-3 times that you thought you knew who Alter Ego was. Did you actually have an identity guess there?

Gonna be honest, I barely remember that game. I probably did at the time but I wouldn’t even be able to tell you who I thought it was.

Assuming it was you though?

It was. And I highly doubted you would have ID'ed me unless you were an alt of a player from Ye Olde Days of Yore, or spend a lot of times reading dusty games from the MS crypt.

[fferyllt]

i've never played a dance game and i don't know who i'm supposed to be trying to pair with or what the optimal way is to form pairings

My first dance game, too. Though I have semi-spectated a couple.

No promises, but I'll try not to point and laugh because I do respect you as a player.

[fferyllt]

Woof boy I wanted to note despite my bravado my plan is to pair with Ffery and then to make sure none of us sneaky fucks is a risk in endgame, we blow ourselves up after submitting our morph solve right before the intermission night kill.

And now she can't stop me~

accept fferylt proposal

I'm on board, I value agency pretty highly.

And you've precluded my worst case scenario thoughts, so there's that.

[fferyllt]

I have huge pile of mush looming menacingly in my safe space, but it's 1000% better than last night. Insomnia sucks, but I was making headway between 1:30 and 4:00 AM.

Speaking of which, I'd love to join the bake-off despite insomnia sucking, and probably will.

[fferyllt]

i feel like this is a bad idea

I don't disagree.

[fferyllt]

Snarky fishes

[fferyllt]

it is what it is. Factor it in.

Looks like Town could potentially be down 5 before intermission.

[fferyllt]

it is what it is. Factor it in.

Looks like Town could potentially be down 5 before intermission.

No pressure on us.

You're not locked up with a terrorist. Just a crazy person.

[fferyllt]

you're townreading both of them?

I'm about where Cabd is, but circling the area described by a 1.25 to 1:75 radius donut.

don't ask me to graph this.

[fferyllt]

you're townreading both of them?

I'm about where Cabd is, but circling the area described by a 1.25 to 1:75 radius donut.

don't ask me to graph this.

Stop stealing cabd answers and do ur own homework!

I wonder if Churchill ever was baked.

“I had a feeling once about Mathematics - that I saw it all. Depth beyond depth was revealed to me - the Byss and Abyss. I saw - as one might see the transit of Venus or even the Lord Mayor's Show - a quantity passing through infinity and changing its sign from plus to minus. I saw exactly why it happened and why the tergiversation was inevitable but it was after dinner and I let it go.”

[fferyllt]

Ok, cuz i was thinking about skitter's take that u and ff are partners playing the long game. I think my initial thought was that the possibility was pretty unlikely cuz i think it's weird to confidently bus ur partner right off the bat. But maybe u saw ff's opening posts as an opportunity and just decided to run with it? It's a p distant possibility, but maybe somewhat valid. skitter, i'm curious about how you'd view ff and fire's more recent interactions. Does it still looking like bussing?

fwiw fire, i feel p good about u rn and bad about ff. 765 pings of possible TMI


I'm also curious
Cabd, how much of u accepting ff's proposal is u actually townreading her compared to linking up w/ an old buddy in the hopes that she's also town and that yall could have fun solving together

It's basic math and worst case scenario-ing.

I've liked your posts despite their sparsity up to this one. This one surprises me a little.

[fferyllt]

the only problem is that the last time i was in a dance game with cakez, we were paired and never used our dance pt at all.
so not sure if being in a pair with cakez will actually be helpful, minus if i convince myself cakez is definitely town.

What was Cakez' alignment in that game?

[fferyllt]

lmao I mismathed.

[fferyllt]

It was an intentionally worst case scenario, yes. Mafia always gives me morbid things to consider.

Also, yes, I'm concerned one will leave. Maybe it will be the right call.

[fferyllt]

Cabd & fferyllt have paired!

Thank you!

[fferyllt]

Even cakes thinks you’re scum ff.

It doesn't matter how many players scumread me. We leave our sync'ed reads in this thread and leave the dance before intermission.

I'll also leave my unsync'ed reads in the event Cabd flips scum.

It's amazing to be able to play fully inside the schrodinger's box and not even worry about the cloud of probabilities. I can assume he's town and scum simultaneously and not have to make a choice. It's so liberating!

I'm really glad you and HST paired.

[fferyllt]

Actually you’ll find that on the popularity board your ranking is way down FF, at this rate your web design business will be delisted and your competitors will gain market share.

Only you can turn this around FF, your company and its employees are counting on you!

It literally doesn't matter where I am. I would assume I'm dead before Day 2 anyway and put my heart into forming and documenting my reads anyway.

None of your words can hurt me or deeply anger me. I'm being my town self, and you have the responsibility and accountability to put real effort into reading me.

[fferyllt]

Maybe it’s a lock picking attempt one lock at a time.

Irregardless, if what you’re saying is true, then I dunno why you’re saying it. Since it goes without saying, eh?

Kinda. It's coming from disappointment, and that's internal to me.

You're one of the players I least need to think about atm. I guess I'd just like for you move on and focus on something else for a while because because my ability to help town win is time constrained.

Though needling me as a distraction would be good scum tactic, I don't have any reason to think your scum game has developed much in that direction.

[fferyllt]

So you two are actually going to self-resolve or are you just saying that?

We will self resolve.

I have no idea what you mean about emulating and that's fine.

Speaking of other reads. One of the gents won't be paired. does that happen by consensus in dance games? Is it a brownian movement thing? Seems like there should decent data points to extract from how it plays out in the light of the gent's alignment.

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

[fferyllt]

I saw my role PM and I started snapping my smug, smug fingers.

This is why I love the video Pooky picked for us.

STD:

elaborate on your RH9 read? What feels town about fireisredsir?

You've played with Cabd a few times. Does he always speak in a language you don't understand? Is there something alignment indicative about that?

[fferyllt]

RH9:

what strategy/criteria are you using to choose the ladies you've invited to dance with so far?

[fferyllt]

I’m imagining everyone dancing rn, and ff just walks in and walks to the center, no rhythm, no groove, just straight business not even their dress shoes clicking together when they turn to address the crowd, not even cheese.

So what does it mean when I take the center, and do NOT blend in?

That you’re me at my absolute dorkiest.

I hardly ever choose to blend in as town. I don't need a reply but I believe you should think about our prior games.

[fferyllt]

RH9:

what strategy/criteria are you using to choose the ladies you've invited to dance with so far?

the same that i've advised skittter to use.

Why did you want to pair with Ydra?

[fferyllt]

Skitter you've seen parts of Firebringer's interactions with me as bussing. And you have said that he's scummy independent of me. Pretend it's second dance and I've flipped town and he hasn't flipped yet.

What does my green flip do to your thoughts about Firebringer?

[fferyllt]

p-edit: because she's ic?

And why do you want to pair with the IC?

[fferyllt]

Y

I feel like he's likely to choose to leave at some point

Skitter you've seen parts of Firebringer's interactions with me as bussing. And you have said that he's scummy independent of me. Pretend it's second dance and I've flipped town and he hasn't flipped yet.

What does my green flip do to your thoughts about Firebringer?

It alleviates them a bit ig but i kinda think he's scummy independant of u now

How does it alleviate them?

[fferyllt]

Because if you're town he isn't bussing you, and part of the present scumread is that his early interactions with you felt svs

And if ur town that isnt a thing so that reason for scumreading him isnt really there anymore

(I'm not sure what answer ur looking for from.this question)

There's a lot of scumreading swirling around me. I'm trying to sift out the genuine from the opportunistic, and think about what a weak scum team would be doing about now, too.

Firebringer's read feels genuine to me, however wrong. I'm not sure about yours.

I think it comes down to what kind of scum team we have here.

[fferyllt]

Ok, why are you unsure mine is genuine?
And what does the last sentance mean?

I have to look like a very juicy "miselim" to right now. You came into the game and went straight to the flaming dumpster file.

It could be a genuine read, but I'm not sure.

[fferyllt]

And the last sentence was about where on the continuum between scary-strong and weak/hesitant this scum team falls.

[fferyllt]

Sure, kinda surprised nobody complained abt that yet
Still think you're scummy tho
I'm a little less imminently concerned abt you tho since you've paired with cabd and he's indicated he is planning on not surviving till endgame with you

Pedit can you elaborate more on that, namely:
* how do you think the strength of the scumteam affects how you would be read by them?

It affects how they position around me. That's the data channel I'm looking for atm.

One mastermind on the team can go a long way and can build a lot of esprit de corps. Two or three strong players can make the approach much more multifaceted and above all natural looking.

[fferyllt]

Sure, kinda surprised nobody complained abt that yet
Still think you're scummy tho
I'm a little less imminently concerned abt you tho since you've paired with cabd and he's indicated he is planning on not surviving till endgame with you

Pedit can you elaborate more on that, namely:
* how do you think the strength of the scumteam affects how you would be read by them?

It affects how they position around me. That's the data channel I'm looking for atm.

One mastermind on the team can go a long way and can build a lot of esprit de corps. Two or three strong players can make the approach much more multifaceted and above all natural looking.

Do u think anyone other than fire has a genuine read on you?

I'm townreading Bell, so.

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

im a lady!

why do you townread spiffeh?

Extreme mind meld last night a la the first and so far only towngame I think I've played with Spiffeh is where it started. His ISO feels so pure. Which is not a word I use to describe my reads, but it applies here.

What are you trying to accomplish in this discussion?

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

Any reason in particular I’m on the bottom?

The short story is you remind me of Ruler II. If I still have concerns at that point, the long story will be fleshed out in my last will and testament.

[fferyllt]

btw, ffery, what are your thoughts on enchant pairing with anybody?
you've mentioned every gent but them in your post on who you want paired.

I'm leaning on HST's read. Enchant's not on my list of gents I wouldn't want to see paired.

[fferyllt]

so i'm curious as to why you left them out of your post.

Mostly because I'm trusting HST's read to some extent but don't have a read of Enchant, myself, yet. I have next to no experience playing with Enchant.

Also, I'm not interested in just laying out all my thoughts before I've thoroughly kicked the tires. But I am very interested in seeing the players I listed have a partner.

[fferyllt]

btw, ffery, what are your thoughts on enchant pairing with anybody?
you've mentioned every gent but them in your post on who you want paired.

I'm leaning on HST's read. Enchant's not on my list of gents I wouldn't want to see paired.

i see.
who would you want them with, then?
seeing that from memory, hst had suggested a enchant/lld pair.

I don't have specific thoughts. Who here besides HST is good at reading Enchant?

[fferyllt]

p-edit: because she's ic?

And why do you want to pair with the IC?

because i know i can trust her and we could potentially solve the game together in the dance pt?

Is she good at reading you?

[fferyllt]

tbh at this point, i'm somewhat starting to worry that mafia might panic-accept one of my dance proposals.

Why would a scum-lady panic-accept your proposal. There are enough gents to go around.

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

im a lady!

why do you townread spiffeh?

Extreme mind meld last night a la the first and so far only towngame I think I've played with Spiffeh is where it started. His ISO feels so pure. Which is not a word I use to describe my reads, but it applies here.

What are you trying to accomplish in this discussion?

the confidence with which some people are throwing out townreads off fairly shallow things is very disconcerting to me (i think probably partly a playstyle difference idk. different generations and all) and i happened to be already responding to you so i was curious if there was any more depth to the read that i was missing or some player meta knowledge due to familiarity you may have

i think the you/spiffeh thread is interesting but moreso from the other direction. i wanted to get a clearer understanding of it from this angle regardless though

im probably more interested in knowing why skitter townreads him since her entrance thoughts aligned with mine in a lot of ways but thats one place we differ

I'm not showing my full hand and don't intend to before I'm ready to bow out.

[fferyllt]

tbh at this point, i'm somewhat starting to worry that mafia might panic-accept one of my dance proposals.

Why would a scum-lady panic-accept your proposal. There are enough gents to go around.

because i'm the only one who has offered a proposal to all the unpaired ladies.

Do you think gents are going to voluntarily leave the dance without a partner?

[fferyllt]

i wanted to see him work through it oh well

Sorry. I'm speed mashing submit because y'all are getting in my way. Didn't see your question.

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

im a lady!

why do you townread spiffeh?

Extreme mind meld last night a la the first and so far only towngame I think I've played with Spiffeh is where it started. His ISO feels so pure. Which is not a word I use to describe my reads, but it applies here.

What are you trying to accomplish in this discussion?

the confidence with which some people are throwing out townreads off fairly shallow things is very disconcerting to me (i think probably partly a playstyle difference idk. different generations and all) and i happened to be already responding to you so i was curious if there was any more depth to the read that i was missing or some player meta knowledge due to familiarity you may have

i think the you/spiffeh thread is interesting but moreso from the other direction. i wanted to get a clearer understanding of it from this angle regardless though

im probably more interested in knowing why skitter townreads him since her entrance thoughts aligned with mine in a lot of ways but thats one place we differ

I'm not showing my full hand and don't intend to before I'm ready to bow out.

But, I'll say this much about Spiffeh.

I have a fair bit of experiential meta with scum-Spiffeh and with the exception of my first game with him, I caught him in those games. So did most of the towns. I cold-meta'd several of his town games for the first game we played. After the Warehouse 13 game, I learned town-Spiffeh and I sync a lot but certainly not entirely.

[fferyllt]

Feeling a little better about RH9.

[fferyllt]

Ffffffff

If you could pick one lady for me to pair with, whom would you pick

Who do you think you'll be able to get a good read on?

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

Any reason in particular I’m on the bottom?

The short story is you remind me of Ruler II. If I still have concerns at that point, the long story will be fleshed out in my last will and testament.

In what way? Because I’d argue that my play is very dissimilar to the FGO game. Not that I’d be able to refute 3 different players playing 1 slot in an anonymous game.

It's like you're playing with a slice of the game and unless you're reacting to another player (like me) having an issue with your play, you're getting along, not digging in, if that makes sense. And even the reactive digging in doesn't feel like it's ~weighing~.

Your getting along posts have good content but the other side of the mafia coin isn't in evidence so far.

[fferyllt]

Of the unpaired gents so far, I'd most like to see Spiffeh, LavorManos and STD paired.

RCE and Fireisred at the bottom. I don't know what to do with RH9.

im a lady!

why do you townread spiffeh?

Extreme mind meld last night a la the first and so far only towngame I think I've played with Spiffeh is where it started. His ISO feels so pure. Which is not a word I use to describe my reads, but it applies here.

What are you trying to accomplish in this discussion?

the confidence with which some people are throwing out townreads off fairly shallow things is very disconcerting to me (i think probably partly a playstyle difference idk. different generations and all) and i happened to be already responding to you so i was curious if there was any more depth to the read that i was missing or some player meta knowledge due to familiarity you may have

i think the you/spiffeh thread is interesting but moreso from the other direction. i wanted to get a clearer understanding of it from this angle regardless though

im probably more interested in knowing why skitter townreads him since her entrance thoughts aligned with mine in a lot of ways but thats one place we differ

let people express reads maybe ? i doubt she would just put spiffeh as town and then never reevaluate ever

I like this post. Cabd should know why.

Maybe Bell, too.

[fferyllt]

Nope.
Doesn’t look like they’ve ever been scum before.

I hope you remember that I have a gigawatt townread on HST.

----------------

I'm going to be around today rereading, but probably won't post much until tonight, maybe. Data acquisition last night wasn't great, but it was good.

[fferyllt]

It's irrelevant what your read of them is. Except in terms of what it says about your alignment.
I recall you taking this tact the last time I saw you posting as scum.
I wonder if you'd remember and still do that anyway. It seems like a mistake.

Then again, people say the same stuff as either alignment.

Bell, If I'm scum, then I'm anti-spewing. If I'm town, then you will know that before my read matters, and you may know enough else by then to trust I'm right about my HST read, or you may have gotten to that conclusion on your own.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, which of the remaining gentleman would you want to leave out of the dance and why?

I'm not ready to pick a gentleman to leave out yet. And I have very little control over who it is when I do pick that gentleman. My playstyle is mostly based on townreads/POE. I need to go against that grain in this game.

The reason I don't want to post much right now is because I want to run the posts through my fingers enough that it's all in my brain.

I can throw some preliminary thoughts here if you want, but I'd rather wait until I've done more sifting, and hopefully get a handle on how being pushed this hard is affecting my reads of the pushing and non-pushing players. Absent other data, my baseline in a situation where I'm being scumread out of the gate for being ME is to suspect people who aren't taking stands of being passive scum. and to suspect people who are taking strong negative stands of being power-scum. That's not a good way to process the game. I'm certain that the baseline is not affecting all of my reads. But it's definitely affecting some of them.

I could toss a few game links where town-me was suspected early, thrown off my stride, and mis-elemed. But players who know me know some of those games, and players who don't probably don't care about meta anyway.

At this point I'm not sure if being rusty is even a factor in what's going on here.

Sorry to dump this on you. :/

[fferyllt]

I haven’t been in a dance game where the partner leaving didn’t result in at least one scum death. People have generally used it responsibly.

I find it violates my cliche policy if FF and Cabd find each other town and go on to win the game and win the most valuable dancers award against all the naysayers.

I'm a morbid townie. I expect to die. I am NOT townreading Cabd, yet anyway. And even if I do get there 1. I'd have to be convinced beyond any doubt that I wouldn't be the game losing final miselim

And 2: The whole point of me inviting Cabd is to figure him out and if he's town, then morphsolve. I don't trust any of you to read Cabd better than I can. If notsci were playing, I'd probably care about his Cabd read. Some of you, including you Bell, have effectively made how I read Cabd in the neighborhood moot. I'm not going to blame myself for that circumstance.

[fferyllt]

Am I an asshole if I point out that ff said it doesn’t matter what people read them as and is now posting about how it matters what people read them as.

Yes you are. How people read me, barring something seismic, will have no effect on my decision to leave the game. Which is what I've been saying.

How people read me is huge, though, in terms of my reads on them. My one indisputable known fact in this game is my own alignment. I want to make sure that fact doesn't bias me too much when I'm this polarizing.

[fferyllt]

Does it make it moot if you have the kill yourself and your best mafia friend button? Because that sounds like a a very non-moot option about how you read Cabd.

His alignment IS moot when it comes being mislimmed too late.

We've come up with great solves in games that were followed to the letter for a town win. And we've come up with great solves on Day 1 and knew we'd be the N1 kill. That's the best case here - a great solve, but I don't think our dying will be entirely in scum hands.

[fferyllt]

I’m sorry for being an asshole.

Keep your scumread. Leave me alone, stop distracting me and let me do my thing.

[fferyllt]

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

Spiffeh asked you the question you're answering in 1006. What HST question are you asking about?

As for your answer, I mostly ignored it for now because I don't want to polarize my read of you any more than it's polarized already. my thoughts are that you are trying to bury me when I'm already six feet under. Or you have no idea how to read me in this kind of situation and you have extended not one iota of wait and see.

Do you want a point by point? Because the answer just boils down to none of that is scummy because town-me wrote those posts.

I don't want to spend my time defending myself to the detriment of doing other things that I hope help town going forward.

[fferyllt]

I’m sorry for being an asshole.

Keep your scumread. Leave me alone, stop distracting me and let me do my thing.

Sure thing. Apologies if I’m wrong. I do take responsibility for me reads. I’m surprised you don’t know that.

I do know that. What I don't fully trust is that you'll take in the proven misread and making it a pivot point on your other reads.

[fferyllt]

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

Spiffeh asked you the question you're answering in 1006. What HST question are you asking about?

As for your answer, I mostly ignored it for now because I don't want to polarize my read of you any more than it's polarized already. my thoughts are that you are trying to bury me when I'm already six feet under. Or you have no idea how to read me in this kind of situation and you have extended not one iota of wait and see.

Do you want a point by point? Because the answer just boils down to none of that is scummy because town-me wrote those posts.

I don't want to spend my time defending myself to the detriment of doing other things that I hope help town going forward.

ok fair enuf
i'm going to drop it and move on for now
(but i don't want your pairing to be alive in endgame)

~hst's question wrt the role pm

His question to Bell? I'm impressed actually, though it has no effect on my HST read, itself. I assumed Bell was joking. Someone made a similar comment early on in the Holiday Dance game in 2021(?). My homework for reading this game was reading the pairing phases of a couple dance games, including that one. Bell was in that game, so I figured saying that here was a random homage to the other game.

Bell forgetting that is meh, but there's no way he'd forget it as scum. And HST poking at it is very HST. Not sure poking it is alignment indicative, but it certainly doesn't hurt my read.

[fferyllt]

Of the gentlemen I think I want RCEnigma or LavarManos left out of the dance. The problem is, that seems too easy...

I kinda liked LavarManos's iso, though it's sparse and there's a lot of stuff he hasn't really interacted with so far.

[fferyllt]

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

Spiffeh asked you the question you're answering in 1006. What HST question are you asking about?

As for your answer, I mostly ignored it for now because I don't want to polarize my read of you any more than it's polarized already. my thoughts are that you are trying to bury me when I'm already six feet under. Or you have no idea how to read me in this kind of situation and you have extended not one iota of wait and see.

Do you want a point by point? Because the answer just boils down to none of that is scummy because town-me wrote those posts.

I don't want to spend my time defending myself to the detriment of doing other things that I hope help town going forward.

ok fair enuf
i'm going to drop it and move on for now
(but i don't want your pairing to be alive in endgame)

~hst's question wrt the role pm

His question to Bell? I'm impressed actually, though it has no effect on my HST read, itself. I assumed Bell was joking. Someone made a similar comment early on in the Holiday Dance game in 2021(?). My homework for reading this game was reading the pairing phases of a couple dance games, including that one. Bell was in that game, so I figured saying that here was a random homage to the other game.

Bell forgetting that is meh, but there's no way he'd forget it as scum. And HST poking at it is very HST. Not sure poking it is alignment indicative, but it certainly doesn't hurt my read.

It's more just i think it's a really, really weird question for scum to ask at that time

Bell's response i think is nai

I'll say again, it was a very HST thing to say and it's one of the reasons I adore HST in mafia games. He finds the strangest things to reaction test with.

[fferyllt]

Of the gentlemen I think I want RCEnigma or LavarManos left out of the dance. The problem is, that seems too easy...

I kinda liked LavarManos's iso, though it's sparse and there's a lot of stuff he hasn't really interacted with so far.

To be fair, he’s really just PoE, nothing stood out to me too much about him.

I do find RCEnigma to be talking “around” people to seem present and I really hate the post where he calls you null but says that scum are posturing around your wagon without naming names.

P.S. I’m joining the ranks of the high tonight but I’ll probably fall asleep before 9 PM ET so I hope there will still be people around to high-post with later on!!!

I have a 40mi conditioning ride tomorrow morning, so I hope I get to sleep early tonight. But, I might be around and high then.

Did my reply to RCE last night resonate? He does talk proactively to a few people, but they're not pushing him and he's not pushing them.

[fferyllt]

For repeat dancers: Historically, do some gents wait long to put out invitations? Is there anything generically AI about the pattern/quantity of invites? Do the gents who are ultimately left on the dance floor alone usually put effort in to pair?

[fferyllt]

Idk much about dance games but I’d like to think that scum would aim for people who aren’t volatile and leave the dance under a tiniest of pressure.

Do you see pairings that fit this?

[fferyllt]

Skitter, please explain how lolsuiciding is a good move as scum.

We vote out pairs, not individuals right?

I want to pursue this thought a little after skitter answers you.

[fferyllt]

Skitter, please explain how lolsuiciding is a good move as scum.

We vote out pairs, not individuals right?

I want to pursue this thought a little after skitter answers you.

Actually I don't want to pursue it, though I doubt my thoughts are novel about the mechanics. Maybe newb-novel.

[fferyllt]

ATM I'm totally ok with RCE not being paired.

It's just strange that although he's expressed preferences he hasn't acted on anything. He's on a path to an early out and it doesn't feel like he's trying to course correct.

[fferyllt]

I read right past ffer and don't notice it's about me unless I slow down.

ffery and fery catch my eyes. or strings of ffff.

[fferyllt]

Wasn't scum-Pooky left out in the dance game where Isis was the IC? I followed that game a little. scum-beeboy was paired with Isis, which might also be interesting to look back at eventually.

Bell was scum in that game too.

[fferyllt]

Yeah I just ISO'd LavarManos and there was nothing in it that makes me not ok with that slot dying this phase. I'm good as long as STD and RH7 aren't left behind.

I feel a little more charitable about LavarManos than this. I dug into his iso last night and expected to hate it due to townreading most other gents. Didn't happen. There's not much there, and there's not much to hate there.

[fferyllt]

Can you explain specifically what you liked in his ISO?

Here are some posts I didn't hate, and why.

k well if its true that he doesn't prefer scum anymore
then i was thinking that it felt like he was staying in the thread way longer than he wanted or needed to
which is townie to me

I like the thought process in this post. I don't think it's a good way to read Cabd, but I still like the way he went about gathering data before this and synthesizing it.

hmm ok we'll see then
also i definitely agree that rh9 seems to be doing his own thing this game, but id like to hear why that makes him town cuz i can also see that being a playstyle thing

other than that
i see gypyx and spiffeh as town, for v similar reason to my cabd read but stronger. It actually seems like they both aren't as comfortable rolling red and they both give off p good vibes so far
and the not dog fire as scum rn
didn't rlly like his entrance and the early reads seemed a bit manufactured

I agreed with his reasoning for gypyx and spiffeh town reads. And his thoughts about fireisred resonated when I looked back at fireisred's early posts.

RCE can u explain where ur bell/fb town comes from bc i don't rlly understand what u were saying in 417

I also disagree with ur LLD townread cuz I think she would definitely play into the paranoia card as either alignment.

Totally agree with his comment about LLD and paranoia cards.

It's basic math and worst case scenario-ing

u were operating with the assumption that lld/fire were going to be the other pairing who went out first dance phase right
idk ig it just seemed a bit doom and gloomy to me, especially since I don't think they are at threat of getting voted out
r u concerned that one of them is going to leave

He was right about my doom and glooming. He's wrong about where it comes from. I feel like town is probably already in a bad place and I just hope that by intermission people have a better grasp of where the eddies and undercurrents are. I feel the undercurrents but I can't interpret them yet.

[fferyllt]

hot take i think spiffey is scum

Interesting.

I made a paranoia reads list a little while ago so I can get it out where I can see it and hopefully stop perseverating about it.

Spiffeh's above my "scumteam from hell" thoughts, but he's not as close to my stronger townreads as he was. He could wind up in my "if I'm getting blindsided" universe.

[fferyllt]

hot take i think spiffey is scum

Interesting.

I made a paranoia reads list a little while ago so I can get it out where I can see it and hopefully stop perseverating about it.

Spiffeh's above my "scumteam from hell" thoughts, but he's not as close to my stronger townreads as he was. He could wind up in my "if I'm getting blindsided" universe.

why would u find that interesting if im so incompetent i got my read wrong on u

why would you being incompetent at reading me mean your other reads are incompetent too?

[fferyllt]

I mean, your Cakez read in Xenoblade 2 was pretty hilarious. I died N1 that game and I don't remember your later stances enough to know if you ever got good in that game. But, you weren't terrible in Tenet. I was.

[fferyllt]

why would you being incompetent at reading me mean your other reads are incompetent too?

because u told me that u don't think highly of my town game before. So the only way u should find that interesting is if u think im scum bussing which u said im town

that is something to unpack.

I need to make guacamole now, though.

[fferyllt]

Spay, try to be back around Bell (in about half an hour) and you might catch me in a rare "able to spend 30 minutes being srs bsns" cycle.

Also, side note, anyone else read about the Mexican drug cartels running the avocado market?

I'm here for a few minutes. Might be more like 45 before I'm really back.

Al Pastor

[fferyllt]

i have no real basis for saying this and this is me just hedging.
But if wrong on fferyllt can replace with LLD.

making teams either
Not Spiffeh, Skitter, firesiredsir, Fferyllt

or

Not Spiffeh, Skitter, fireisredsir, LLD.

Thats my gut feeling.
I think RCE is maybe town for how i think scum leans are cool with leaving him to die.

I don't know exactly why, but Cakez wound up in my paranoia scumreads. Not because he's scary. mostly because of some of the townreads on him.

[fferyllt]

If I had to yolo call it I'd make the final two endgame pairs HST-Bell and Spiffeh-Gypyx and be pretty self-assured we won.

I bet this statement is going to make Spay spit out her liquor.

This is where my head was at yesterday.

[fferyllt]

Y'all severely underestimate what seeing red in my role PM does to my state of mind.

[fferyllt]

I'm a little more concerned about the Spiffeh side of that pair.

[fferyllt]

Y'all severely underestimate what seeing red in my role PM does to my state of mind.

Anxiety?

self-loathing

[fferyllt]

Y'all severely underestimate what seeing red in my role PM does to my state of mind.

Anxiety?

self-loathing

Buzzword bingo about teams, letting them down, and knowing who they are.

I fail to imagine three names that potential you-scum draws as partners here that makes you self-loathe to the point of spiraling out of control though, which is why I've chosen to go about things the way I have.

Even with play style and out of game mismatches I don't think that happens.

Absolutely.

Which is why I do consider myself competent at scum. usually.

Okay cabd it has been noted.

My personal feeling is that I am watching ff use emotion to try to temporarily get people off of them using existing relationships and small things she knows about each of us for leverage, that it’s half hearted and no, turning the temperature up now doesn’t make it better.

But I’m wrong most of the time so.

I'm "using emotion" to lash out at people who are disappointing and annoying and frustrating me. In your case, the reason it's half-hearted is because in 99.9999% of games I enjoy the hell out of playing with you and I think this game is an anomaly that will probably never happen again.

When a game reaches the point where you're being scumread for breathing, things break.

The amount of distressed town I'm bleeding here is horrible. I need a dozen tourniquets.

[fferyllt]

So much mindmeld with you Spiffeh.

Why are you in the middle of my reads?

[fferyllt]

a couple of your posts felt ~convenient~.

You've half-heartedly walked your read back on me but haven't slam-dunked me. I feel like you KNOW how I'm going to flip and don't want to be

too

wrong. Just wrong enough to be able to stand aside and let others do the slam-dunking.

[fferyllt]

But why? it's day one. A gigawatt read day one on a player that is not me is probably a horrific idea. Do you have a certain tell or something that meets a high probability of accuracy? Are you alt guessing on HST and then using that data to sort?
The confidence doesn't make sense.

Did you answer this question FF?

I’m trying to emotionally process and what you’re saying. But it will be a little bit.

I know. And I've known other alts, of the main, too. For me, it's one of the easiest solid townreads on site. When not town, it's a read I waffle on forever. Sort of like I did on you in smoke-filled. One of these days I'm going to internalize that there are certain players who if I waffle, they're scum.

[fferyllt]

Noted. I'll look back at the posts that have given me that impression.

[fferyllt]

But why? it's day one. A gigawatt read day one on a player that is not me is probably a horrific idea. Do you have a certain tell or something that meets a high probability of accuracy? Are you alt guessing on HST and then using that data to sort?
The confidence doesn't make sense.

Did you answer this question FF?

I’m trying to emotionally process and what you’re saying. But it will be a little bit.

I know. And I've known other alts, of the main, too. For me, it's one of the easiest solid townreads on site. When not town, it's a read I waffle on forever. Sort of like I did on you in smoke-filled. One of these days I'm going to internalize that there are certain players who if I waffle, they're scum.

The irony of this post is massive, since that’s basically why I’m scum reading you this game.

How do you even know you waffle on scum-me?

I don't think we've ever been you-town me-scum.

[fferyllt]

Kiddo would like everyone to know that we under no circumstances whatsoever flush clothing down the toilet.

She's in bed falling back asleep so minimum brightness phone posting is happening while I wait for her to settle.

Poor kid's having a bad night.

How much solvey stuff do you want to work on in this thread

[fferyllt]

My Spiffeh read is no doubt affected by being tilted into Oort's Junkyard.

At most 4 pairs are going to be tainted. Objectively I think those two pairs are good bets for town.

We need one more good pair.

[fferyllt]

viewtopic.php?t=90403

I think this one. I suspected you and slowly you started to hit the right notes. So I ended up thinking you were town.

There was also a game when you played as scum as silver(?) silent sound or something and bbmolla repped in and I repped out.

I can't believe I forgot you were in the PYP game. Fuck covid.

Sound of Silence. GiF hydra. We haven't hydra'd in forever. I do remember a couple of scum games there. We were mostly active when you'd left the site.

Anyway, good. You have played against scum me. So, your fail here is...not good.

[fferyllt]

And you're getting mostly by memory because I can't exactly run side by side ISOs on my cell phone.

My current path to 3 town pairs runs right through Firebringer/LLD. :/

[fferyllt]

This game is very active I skimmed hello

When are you going to start playing this game?

[fferyllt]

This game is very active I skimmed hello

When are you going to start playing this game?

Lol you can just vote me instead of this kinda posting I know that makes it easier to stop pushes. I feel like this post is such a baited attempt to stir the pot w me

Oh look you actually interacted with the player you're "scumreading"

[fferyllt]

No, you should definitely vote sircakez now ff.

I really don't want to unleash on you. Please back off.

[fferyllt]

If you wanted to talk to me you could just talk to me directly instead of these weird shade-casty posts
Where in skitter or I's assertions about you are we wrong?

You're wrong that any of that shit is indicative of scum-me. And I think you know that.

I wrote up a paranoia scum team guess and I was surprised as hell that you fit into it.

[fferyllt]

If you wanted to talk to me you could just talk to me directly instead of these weird shade-casty posts
Where in skitter or I's assertions about you are we wrong?

And this is exactly why you fit in.

You haven't tried to actually read me. You haven't interacted with me ONCE until I called you out.

[fferyllt]

No, you should definitely vote sircakez now ff.

I really don't want to unleash on you

. Please back off.

You have absolutely no reason to keep needling me while you can't vote me off. And yet you do.

[fferyllt]

If you wanted to talk to me you could just talk to me directly instead of these weird shade-casty posts
Where in skitter or I's assertions about you are we wrong?

You're wrong that any of that shit is indicative of scum-me. And I think you know that.

I wrote up a paranoia scum team guess and I was surprised as hell that you fit into it.

Explain like I'm five why it's wrong. I don't have any recent or memorable enough meta to be using on you here.

You played a fucking game with scum me less than a year ago. One of my last games before hiatus.

If you go back and look you'll see that I said something similar to you in that game. See if you can spot the difference.

If you wanted to talk to me you could just talk to me directly instead of these weird shade-casty posts
Where in skitter or I's assertions about you are we wrong?

And this is exactly why you fit in.

You haven't tried to actually read me. You haven't interacted with me ONCE until I called you out.

Because I was expecting the discussion to go about this direction
[/quote]

I'm on my last nerve just this moment, but in general I respond to posts, and I listen to what the player is saying. I don't just jump down throats.

That was quote tag hell.

[fferyllt]

It started there, Cakez.

viewtopic.php?p=13523892#p13523892

Wow. your mindset was soooo different there. That was town-you.

[fferyllt]

What is the difference between there and here? On that page in that game you accuse me of the same thing you did here, that I'm avoiding interacting with you. I feel like I don't understand what you're saying here.

I told you there's a difference. I knew I was getting elimmed, and I was not pissed about it.

That's the difference between my scum and town game. In a nutshell.

[fferyllt]

Welp.

I think I'm townreading fireisred.

[fferyllt]

K, just a couple of thoughts
-ff seems very snappy wrt others scumreading her
@ff given that you and cabd made a "pact" to leave before intermission, how does that jive with your current attitude? I would have expected u to shrug off the scumreads instead of engaging.

Because it grinds my gears to be misread. And getting this kind of crap continually when all I want to do help town as much as I can before I leave the game on top of being misread very much gets under my skin.

I don't want to be anywhere near elo.

So.

Why are you even asking me this?

[fferyllt]

LLD, Cabd, FF, FIR, FB.
Maybe skitter?
And definitely Ydrasse.

Are you speaking a generality? If you're not, then you'll have to be more clear because I don't know what non-generality meaning I should get from it.

[fferyllt]

I think in general that how everyone is playing points to someone actively coaching a few players since there’s deviations to what I’d expect from them.

I’m not actually sure though, I’m not scum.

Feel like elaborating at some point? Doesn't need to be this phase.

I'll want to revisit well before intermission.

[fferyllt]

Despite my paranoia reads list (which you don't get to see atm), I like some recent Skitter posts.

[fferyllt]

I think in general that how everyone is playing points to someone actively coaching a few players since there’s deviations to what I’d expect from them.

I’m not actually sure though, I’m not scum.

Feel like elaborating at some point? Doesn't need to be this phase.

I'll want to revisit well before intermission.

I’m basically making a subtle lld/Cabd swipe since they’re the most hands on in terms of coaching.
This is just in reference to unique plays or posts I wouldn’t expect a player to make, such as HST’s vote which someone else might’ve brought to their attention or RH’s near perfect response when I asked them why they didn’t find it weird I couldn’t remember how many scum there were.

I don’t really think enchant can be coached.

Yeah I know there are great coaches in this game. You implied some people are playing outside your expectations, though, which I interpret as being coached. If that's so, I will want to talk about it with you in the next phase.

[fferyllt]

Why do you think ff is scum?
STD

i think her tone is stilted, i think her ATE could be insincere, i think every post she makes is kind of "look at me, I'm so town!". i dunno if it's just her playstyle but i just am having trouble believing her. i think i've asked her like 2 questions too that she's just ignored.

i have a reason to think that cabd is town. I think she's trying to blow up that spot or convince him to use his clout to keep her around

i dunno. ultimately i just don't believe her

I didn't notice your questions. I'll skim your iso and get back to you.

Also, you were in a newbie game where I decided I shouldn't be at the elo table before Night 1 started. I hung around as long as I could to help solve the game but had no qualms about leaving the day before elo. I mostly bridled my ire because it was newbie game. I think town-you could probably glean some perspective by revisiting it. viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=88358&user_select%5B%5D=20541

[fferyllt]

Ffffffff

If you could pick one lady for me to pair with, whom would you pick

Who do you think you'll be able to get a good read on?

But I'm curious as to what you'll say

that reminds me tho, just so it doesn't get lost can i get a name from ya, ff?

Actually I do remember these questions now, but at the time it sent me into crawling isos and I probably got distracted by something shiny or annoying.

At the time, I was thinking maybe Skitter or Gypyx because I had a lot of concerns about fireisred. Those concerns are alleviated to some degree.

Right now I don't have confidence that any of those 3 potential pairings would have been town-town.

This whole game is spinning around the axis of "I don't have a Cabd read yet", and my Gypyx read is very contingent on Cabd's alignment.

[fferyllt]

you might need to eli5 what you're trying to say wrt the newbie game

I was town and annoyed as hell among other things. I doubt my ire was fully expressed in that game because I took being a friendly face to newbie players very seriously when we had a newbie queue.

But, there were echoes.

I could rifle through other games including one where Ceph sandbagged me, but I figured your familiarity of that one would make my "AtE" more easy to spot.

[fferyllt]

what if i danced with enchant

Are you an enchant whisperer?

[fferyllt]

Why not this phase? I have no unique insights in this regard, nor am I particularly likely to be accurate and I don’t have much experience with what coaching looks like compared to to a player just being a different alignment.

Mostly because I want more time figuring out/working with Cabd before I go down that rabbit hole.

[fferyllt]

ffery

i should clarify

i think your ATE could be you channeling emotions into false indignation at not being tr

not necessarily that you are incapable of ATEing as town

but since you brought it up, i've skimmed that iso a couple of times and can't really find the same ATE feeling? i might need to be pointed in the right direction or im just completely misunderstanding what your point is.

another thing that was weird for me but i forgot about until just now is stuff like 1140 it's kind of a "hey, im putting in town work" but you just kind of say "this iso is good, here's some reasons why it's bad" and don't really describe what the reasons you like for several posts after

Dude.

Everything I put into the thread right now shows my hand to Cabd. There are some things I don't want to show before the neighborhood opens. My entire objective in this game from the minute I saw my role PM was to hope like hell a hood would help me get a read on him. The read itself doesn't matter in terms of when we flip now. But, it does affect other reads that I want to leave for posterity.

[fferyllt]

Despite my paranoia reads list (which you don't get to see atm), I like some recent Skitter posts.

I'm curious, can you share more abt this?

Not yet.

[fferyllt]

what if i danced with enchant

Who you ask

Everyone

I dunno. If you have confidence that you can salvage enchant or spot them as scum then yeah. Cool. I prefer a more harmonious 3 teams that were fairly sure are all town, but I think that ship sailed.

I guess STD might be town and it might be a good idea to pair there? But that’s just my preference.

STD paired with skitter last night.

[fferyllt]

ffery

i should clarify

i think your ATE could be you channeling emotions into false indignation at not being tr

not necessarily that you are incapable of ATEing as town

but since you brought it up, i've skimmed that iso a couple of times and can't really find the same ATE feeling? i might need to be pointed in the right direction or im just completely misunderstanding what your point is.

another thing that was weird for me but i forgot about until just now is stuff like 1140 it's kind of a "hey, im putting in town work" but you just kind of say "this iso is good, here's some reasons why it's bad" and don't really describe what the reasons you like for several posts after

Dude.

Everything I put into the thread right now shows my hand to Cabd. There are some things I don't want to show before the neighborhood opens. My entire objective in this game from the minute I saw my role PM was to hope like hell a hood would help me get a read on him. The read itself doesn't matter in terms of when we flip now. But, it does affect other reads that I want to leave for posterity.

i am just not tracking

Is more transparency from me something you need for working out the last bits of the pairing phase?

[fferyllt]

STD you proposed to Skitter despite me voicing reservations about her alignment, so it doesn't really seem like my opinions matter much.

[fferyllt]

Ffffffff

If you could pick one lady for me to pair with, whom would you pick

Who do you think you'll be able to get a good read on?

But I'm curious as to what you'll say

that reminds me tho, just so it doesn't get lost can i get a name from ya, ff?

Actually I do remember these questions now, but at the time it sent me into crawling isos and I probably got distracted by something shiny or annoying.

At the time, I was thinking maybe Skitter or Gypyx because I had a lot of concerns about fireisred. Those concerns are alleviated to some degree.

Right now I don't have confidence that any of those 3 potential pairings would have been town-town.

This whole game is spinning around the axis of "I don't have a Cabd read yet", and my Gypyx read is very contingent on Cabd's alignment.

Seriously? You're extending the no read on me shtick?

It's not shtick. And in this instance shtick from me would have a short shelf life anyway.

deal with it.

[fferyllt]

nothing ffery has said today has made me want to not yeet her the second i can :/

As long as I have a chance to post my fully finalized thoughts, I'll probably beat you to it.

[fferyllt]

STD you proposed to Skitter despite me voicing reservations about her alignment, so it doesn't really seem like my opinions matter much.

actually, i'll call

here's your chance to make me look like a real dummy

show me where you voiced these reservations

Here are some:

Because if you're town he isn't bussing you, and part of the present scumread is that his early interactions with you felt svs

And if ur town that isnt a thing so that reason for scumreading him isnt really there anymore

(I'm not sure what answer ur looking for from.this question)

There's a lot of scumreading swirling around me. I'm trying to sift out the genuine from the opportunistic, and think about what a weak scum team would be doing about now, too.

Firebringer's read feels genuine to me, however wrong. I'm not sure about yours.

I think it comes down to what kind of scum team we have here.

Ok, why are you unsure mine is genuine?
And what does the last sentance mean?

I have to look like a very juicy "miselim" to right now. You came into the game and went straight to the flaming dumpster file.

It could be a genuine read, but I'm not sure.

ffery do you have any comment on 1006

while i don't really like the approach, hst is town for that question

Spiffeh asked you the question you're answering in 1006. What HST question are you asking about?

As for your answer, I mostly ignored it for now because I don't want to polarize my read of you any more than it's polarized already. my thoughts are that you are trying to bury me when I'm already six feet under. Or you have no idea how to read me in this kind of situation and you have extended not one iota of wait and see.

Do you want a point by point? Because the answer just boils down to none of that is scummy because town-me wrote those posts.

I don't want to spend my time defending myself to the detriment of doing other things that I hope help town going forward.

Despite my paranoia reads list (which you don't get to see atm), I like some recent Skitter posts.

[fferyllt]

if anyone wants me to refute that i will but that's hardly a damning revelation against my point (esp with the 4th quote coming after the pairing).

and even if it was, you missed my questions, who's to say i didn't miss your posts on skitter? obviously they didn't leave a strong impression on me because i couldn't find them, so why would i think your opinion any less, especially since i kept asking for it?

no.

i don't buy it.

Don't buy what? The posts are there. And you pointed out I missed something addressed to me and I went back and addressed it.

You have your read of me. It doesn't matter in this phase. What are you trying to accomplish?

[fferyllt]

do you always talk around people

I'm not talking around you. But, I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish IN THIS PHASE. I even asked you if you need more transparency from me IN THIS PHASE and you didn't say yes or no unless I missed it.

There ARE reads in my iso. If there's something specific you want to know more about then ask me.

[fferyllt]

Was anyone not townreading Spiffeh or something

This reminds me. Can people explain why they are town reading HST?

While the quoted post truly sets her apart as a prestigious mafia player, I am not yet seeing why she's so universally townread.

It's a read based on HST's main. The humor and quirks are there as either alignment but they feel much more carefree as town. The energy tends to fade some when scum IME. HST is keeping up well with a fairly fast moving thread, and the reads and the presence of an early reaction test is also town indicative.

My one very small reservation here is that HST usually holds off stating a read on me for a while is because he starts from a place of suspicion, and watches my body of work until he's sure. I feel extremely obvious town to players who know me well, so it's not totally outside the envelope of his townplay around me specifically. It's one footnote on a townread.