What games/setups are good for new players?

[usesPython]

Setup-wise semi-opens are great for this because it lets new players get the feel for the not knowing the setup that comes with Normals while still having tools to navigate through mech. That being said there's a caveat to this in that the setup generation should be as simple as possible; something like NewD3 or 09:12 are a lot easier to understand compared to something like C9++

Playerlist should also be kept on the smaller side, a Large probably isn't appropriate for newer players

Ideally avoid setups that would need you to pull out the NAR resolution list (e.g. Mafia Roleblocker and Town Jailkeeper targeting each other)

There's an argument of if investigative PRs should be in those types of games: on one hand if there are no investigatives then it forces new townies to have to learn to read people (which is good since it gets them the skills to actually enjoy playing), on the other hand if there are no investigatives then new townies can only interact through reads which in our opinion can cause a lot of frustration since there's an unfortunate tendency on this site to ignore reads from newer players outside of how it helps you read the newbie in question

I think the biggest factor to if a newbie game is actually enjoyable is the level of meta people bring into it and we'd unironically support secret alt newbie games with the understanding that experienced players shouldn't be trying to meta each other and should just be playing the game normally

[usesPython]

I think the biggest factor to if a newbie game is actually enjoyable is the level of meta people bring into it and we'd unironically support secret alt newbie games with the understanding that experienced players shouldn't be trying to meta each other and should just be playing the game normally

How about newbie games where experienced players are on secret alts and newbies aren't? This way newbies can still form bonds with each other and also earn a reputation without vets stealing the show.

Secret alts for everyone also pulls double duty in preventing experienced players being able to go "Newbie spotted, opinion ignored". We don't really have any better ideas for how to let newbies form bonds with each other while preventing this kind of thing though so that's probably one of the better compromises

[usesPython]

If the goal is to retain new players then I don't think we need to try to brighten the experience for them. It should be ok to give them a taste of how other games are played on the site in regards to things like meta reads and emotional arguments. If they don't like those things then they probably won't stick around long anyway

Meta reads we think there's a argument of threshold to be made, and it's something we've noticed in our games as well. If the game is meta heavy and everyone but you knows each other then it's basically impossible to play the game, like knowing even just a few people would let you play the game by evaluating how people are metaing the people you can meta. The problem with newbie games in particular is that by definition they're not gonna know anyone, which creates a very particular negative vibe in that the game feels cliquish as hell; in contrast the regular growing pains of not knowing how to read people/deceive people/convince people/etc. fall under the skill issue umbrella where you can get support and feel like you can improve and all that good stuff.

[usesPython]

of the most recent post i think i want to throw the immediacy part more into the mix though to figure out the best solution depending on the amount of new players we get

Make a centralized newbie queue that /in's you in every game on the site in signups that's judged to be newbie friendly (however this ends up being determined), this would speed up the firing rate from "whenever a newbie game fires" to "whenever any game on the site fires"