Open 895 - 09:12 PM - Postgame

[lucca261]

After like six years without playing, that's a very fun game to catch-up and replace into

no huge walls at all!

[lucca261]

After like six years without playing, that's a very fun game to catch-up and replace into

no huge walls at all!

So what ya thinkin'

150 is kinda bad

[lucca261]

honestly Mizuki is just flying under the radar. her D1 is 60% not voting, 20% voting on shaddew and 20% on clap. 150 tone feels off. really fun analytical player to read, I just don't buy that a concise spectator-like player like herself would be fooled by the fake hammer (specially when she had just changed her vote from cook to clap one hour before)

like Black/Titus slot. her thought process feels natural. 791 could've been taken from my mind when I was catching up. it's simply chef's kiss.

[lucca261]

the wagon talk by Gob was very good, but I'm in a different wavelength:

The

Clap

E-2 wagon was composed by, at different times, [

Mizuki

,

Black

,

Shaddow

,

D&D

]. 267 and 350
The

Shaddow

E-1 wagon was composed by [

Mizuki

,

Black

,

Clap

,

D&D

]. 600

think it's very unlikely that both mafia would push for a town miselim two times on D1. I agree with Gob that there's one mafia on and one off this voting block. But I think the Cook hammer was NAI in the end, day was coming to a close and Shaddow would obv be eliminated, so she was not really grouped with the guys who tried to vote both Clap and Shaddow.

so I think there's one scum between [Mizuki, Black/Titus and D&D] and one between [Cook, Elements, Kyouko].

[lucca261]

Kyokou is kinda town for me. she keeps pushing back on stuff long forgotten and inactivity on a frustrated town way. stuff like 476, 736 and 786, for instance. it reads to me like town who's disengaged from the current discussion, has a stagnant reads list and wants new content from those fringe-scum players.

a little bland tho

then again I'm not mr. big personality (quite a contrast from gob to be honest)

[lucca261]

liked D2 from Elements, D1 not so much (and seeing Cook + Mizuki on your wagon is concerning). null at the moment. could be one of the players who I need to actually engage on conversation to truly form a read

that's it for this session, think it was productive

[lucca261]

almost forgot to UNVOTE:

[lucca261]

oh new guy, you look familiar

just checked and we played together on a game in like 2017

seems like I tunneled you pretty hard on that game but hopefully I'm a changed man

[lucca261]

@948, thanks for the welcome back Drew, appreciate it

I do have to ask how much of your reads are just piggy backing on Gob's reads vs your own take on things.

Honestly I feel like if you read D1 with a fresh mind and knowing that Clap, Shaddow and Gob are all town, that wagon take is kinda easy as the construction of both Clap/Shaddow wagons were eerily similar

even so the fact that my predecessor (who I think was very convincing on his argument) was pushing for a take with a similar premise maybe makes me a little more confident subconciously

that said I don't feel like my reads are that similar with his. more like the premise. his conclusion was that there was def a scum on Kyouko/Element. currently, I'm townreading Kyouko and Element is kinda null-ish, could go either way

[lucca261]

the wagon talk by Gob was very good, but I'm in a different wavelength:

The

Clap

E-2 wagon was composed by, at different times, [

Mizuki

,

Black

,

Shaddow

,

D&D

]. 267 and 350
The

Shaddow

E-1 wagon was composed by [

Mizuki

,

Black

,

Clap

,

D&D

]. 600

think it's very unlikely that both mafia would push for a town miselim two times on D1. I agree with Gob that there's one mafia on and one off this voting block. But I think the Cook hammer was NAI in the end, day was coming to a close and Shaddow would obv be eliminated, so she was not really grouped with the guys who tried to vote both Clap and Shaddow.

so I think there's one scum between [Mizuki, Black/Titus and D&D] and one between [Cook, Elements, Kyouko].

Don't care if this is bullshit. While accurate vca is not good often this early, I'm a sucker for it.

Are you saying this is bullshit or accurate vca?

is there anything you think is bullshit about it? honestly i'm all ears

[lucca261]

Sure I don't think I'm going to get what I want from Titus here, there's a flaw in 940 I was hoping she would also find upon closer inspection.

The 267 Clap wagon was {Mizuki, Black, Shaddowes}, and the 350 wagon was {Mizuki, Shadowes, D&D}. Mizuki and Shaddowes are the common denominator here - which means that by this logic:

think it's very unlikely that both mafia would push for a town miselim two times on D1

that Mizuki and Shaddowes could be found as "not partnered", but Black & D&D were not both pushing (or at least not on the wagon) at the same time. So I think the logic in 940 should not discount a possible {Black, D&D} team, and the final conclusion (below):

so I think there's one scum between [Mizuki, Black/Titus and D&D] and one between [Cook, Elements, Kyouko].

... should look more like

at least one

scum in [Mizuki, Black/Titus and D&D] and

at most one

scum [Cook, Elements, Kyouko].

Yes, this makes a lot of sense too.

Something of note (and that I decided to omit during my catch-up post because I had no strong opinions about) was that there was a small push towards D&D as a counter to the Clap wagon. Sequence of events goes like this:

1. D&D puts Clap on E-2. @311. (suspicious of Cook on this page tbh)
2. aftermath is Clap, Elements and Black start a wagon on D&D. @340.
3. next relevant vote (Mizuki and Shaddow unvote Clap on the meantime) is Shaddow putting D&D on E-1. @452.
4. Black immediately unvotes and Clap starts the Shaddow counter-wagon. @459 and @487.
5. D&D, Black and Mizuki put Shaddow on E-1. @501, 502, 503

Given that D1 was a little clusterfucky, I'm probably into WIFOM territory. But it gives D&D/Black a little more credence. Worth noting that Black expressed intent on changing from Shaddow to D&D several times, but never proceeds to do it

[lucca261]

that small re-read of pages 13 to 21 made me want to shoot Cook btw

[lucca261]

but would like to see the thoughts of Mizuki's replacement on the game so far before making moves

[lucca261]

Cook/Jackson is a fine lim for today

But I think this is way better: VOTE: Afrayed Knott

[lucca261]

Mizuki

[lucca261]

Jackson if you're town you might want to do things asap

This Cook wagon seems like it came on quickly, not sure I like the timing of it.

Please elaborate

Eod, during a holiday where people are MIA.....now especially with a repp in.

Seems very convenient for a mis lim to be pushed though.

Thought this as well

Page 39: @972: I say that I would like to shoot Cook
Page 40: @985 and @995: only strong stances by Afrayed are on Cook!scum
Page 41: @1012, @1013 and @1016: turbo-quick wagon on Cook by Elements, Titus and Kyouko (very late on D2 after a replacement)

5/6 players have given strong consideration to shooting Cook on the last two pages on an elim that could very well happen

food for thought

[lucca261]

unless the team is exactly Cook/D&D there is scum bussing Cook/prepping for a mislim

[lucca261]

what are your thoughts on Cook's wagon, @AfrayedKnott?

and can I get a readslist?

[lucca261]

Fucked up the BBCode on the links on the long post, small correction:

Page 39: 972: I say that I would like to shoot Cook
Page 40: 985 and 995: only strong stances by Afrayed are on Cook!scum
Page 41: 1012, 1013 and 1016: turbo-quick wagon on Cook by Elements, Titus and Kyouko (very late on D2 after a replacement)

[lucca261]

Jackson if you're town you might want to do things asap

This Cook wagon seems like it came on quickly, not sure I like the timing of it.

Please elaborate

Eod, during a holiday where people are MIA.....now especially with a repp in.

Seems very convenient for a mis lim to be pushed though.

Thought this as well

Page 39: @972: I say that I would like to shoot Cook
Page 40: @985 and @995: only strong stances by Afrayed are on Cook!scum
Page 41: @1012, @1013 and @1016: turbo-quick wagon on Cook by Elements, Titus and Kyouko (very late on D2 after a replacement)

5/6 players have given strong consideration to shooting Cook on the last two pages on an elim that could very well happen

food for thought

I wouldn’t say either of my posts as highlighted by you are strings stances on Cook!Scum. And I see that the slot is at E1, and as I have yet to read the ISOs, as I have stated in 995, I’m not looking to hammer.

yeah, they aren't the strongest reads, but Cook was the only scumread on your preliminary reads. then next time you just came back and put suspicion on Elements based on an association with Cook

let's do a checklist:

- Lucca/Gob: meta read, town (983)
- Elements: town meta read on (983), associative scum stuff w/Cook on (995)
- D&D: null (984)
- Cook: scum, empty on (985), associative scum stuff w/Elements on (995)
- Kyouko: town, empty (986)
- Titus: initial concerns on (989), big null read based on meta on (992)

i mean it looks like you trying to cookhunt instead of scumhunt

[lucca261]

i know it's all preliminary reads and stuff, won't hold that stuff too much against you, but like we're close to the end of the day, there's a real possibility that someone is limmed before you finish your ISO dive

and then BAM! D3 and quite possibly two more town dead if my theory is correct

[lucca261]

Here for the deadline.

[lucca261]

Spoiler: Pages 1-10

I am starting this game pretty heavily swinging against Elements it seems like but their entrance self-vote in 7, although the constant revoting is +town, the current game response to my replacement and the whole E-2 statement in 13 all seem like they're trying too hard at doing what a townie should be doing more so than just doing what a townie would be doing. Especially the town-read in post 40 about Gob's NAI post but doesn't elaborate (maybe they did later). I feel this is just full commit "try and be townie" which is doing the opposite for me.

I say that but their constant vote shifting in the early game is definitely townie, they're not afraid of the backlash of being inconsistent which is a good sign, maybe I'm reading into their personality more than their scum range.

Seeing Cook make the same conclusion as I did in 64, and knowing their alignment 100% (lucky me) I am more confident that I am not going off the rails but I'm still thinking I need to check if it's more their personality that's getting vibe checked than not especially given somebody said that they get D1'd often and that would make sense if this was the case.

The statement of Cook as scum from Black in 152 could be a chainsaw (if I'm getting that term right) in the event Elements flips red but I doubt Black "hard" pairs with their scum partner in the early game.

I need to get out of my "look at Elements" mindset or I'm not gonna have a read on anybody else whoops.

155. Aint no way my pred believed he was actually hammered, what a gumball but I can gauge from that. Gob/Black had the same general reaction to it immediately, meaning if they're serious then they might be more likely Town, emphasis on might.

I like Mizuki's take on Cook via paranoia in 172 even though that it does benefit the scum agenda if the world of Cook/Gob were true and they wanted to keep the vote pool as wide as possible I don't think that's what is happening here.

I disagree on Mizuki's take 176 on Clap's 100. I more likely see that type of thought process from townies in the early game, I know it's cheap to say when they're dead and flipped green but I would have noted this in the moment as well.

How was Clap eliminated with their 186, sigh.

Reading Kyouko in a catch-up is literal pain.

227 Mizuki, you say you scum-read Clap for not solving Elements' alignment but overlooked the fact that Black said you simply can't read them aka don't try?

Black's 245 just threw all the subconscious feelings that they're wolf deep into my brain, disregard this for now I want to come back to it after a full catch-up as I try and logic this feeling out more, maybe that all at once feelings about Black came about because of my last paragraph talking to Mizuki. Not sure, intriguing.

By the way, as Elements pointed out, there is a little town!slip in this with Virgo thinking Clap was limmed - I think on a game with a scum daytalk he would 100% know Clap was killed.

Not sure if a real slip or a point I missed given that I don't really understand the comment in relation to that post anyway

I like the overall wall catchup even if it is easy content to fake when you're replacing in

[lucca261]

I haven’t read further than page 10 but I don’t like Black and Titus repped black so I’d rather that than Elements

VOTE: Titus

Meh this is a bad vote late on D2 on a player who is obviously not getting limmed

the replace-ins almost made me forgot that Jackson/Afrayed is a real possibility

[lucca261]

I haven’t read further than page 10 but I don’t like Black and Titus repped black so I’d rather that than Elements

VOTE: Titus

Meh this is a bad vote late on D2 on a player who is obviously not getting limmed

the replace-ins almost made me forgot that Jackson/Afrayed is a real possibility

You would be wrong about me, but then you are probably reading the slot and not me. So keep those blinkers on if you are town and go all the way to a lose

hey if you are town just vote Jackson please I don't really think Elements is getting limmed today

Elements reaction to your vote is super towny (especially the frustration)

[lucca261]

Ok, why Jackson?

There's 40 minutes to the deadline. You're at E-1, Jackson's E-2.

I mean I'm not the one guy to explain to you how you should live your life, but it seems to me that if you want to survive today, you should be voting Jackson

[lucca261]

Do you have strong thoughts on town!Jackson? Thought you scumread him

[lucca261]

ok, will engage

Why does the Elements flip would give more intel than Jackson?

[lucca261]

I haven’t read further than page 10 but I don’t like Black and Titus repped black so I’d rather that than Elements

VOTE: Titus

Meh this is a bad vote late on D2 on a player who is obviously not getting limmed

the replace-ins almost made me forgot that Jackson/Afrayed is a real possibility

How tf would I know who can or cannot be limmed, and why would I even care? I wanna push who I think are wolves not conform to who you all believe are wolves

Sure if you can get the Titus wagon to go through on the 9 minutes till the end of D2, i'll concede the point

[lucca261]

Don't like that Kyouko is not posting at all on the thread today.

For posterity

[lucca261]

Please hammer.

[lucca261]

I don't get why you guys are doing this pushing for No Lim regardless of alignment by the way

[lucca261]

Thanks for modding, Alianna!

This was very cool to participate - even if I was just alive for like a week

gg everyone