Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)

[Aristophanes]

This is a blatant egopost until I read up. 30 pages ain't bad though.

What's the case on Marashu?

[Aristophanes]

announcement!!!

Aristophanes replaces votato!!

Big shoes that I will not be filling btw

[Aristophanes]

announcement!!!

Aristophanes replaces votato!!

Big shoes that I will not be filling btw

Fucking more anime people.....ok.

*deep breath*

Welcome presumably not pervy person!

You are a good read of character!

And hey, anime is trending!

Also I lost a social bet and this is my punishment

You should join us! Become one with the site. Don the Anime Avatar!

VOTE: Marashu

Welcome.

Pedit: Anime is trash, I'd never be connected with something so cringe. We should make an anti-anime town block.

Okay, you I like! This is very funny!

Could you fill me in on why Marashu is now at El-2?
(I'm trying out new terms) (I chose "El" because it is pronounced the same in my head as "L" and stands easily in for "Elimination") (I can use "H" is that is the standard this game tho)

[Aristophanes]

Marushy is at El-1 and I don't understand why. Can someone please fill me in before a hammer drops??

Like, I just went through and read Mara's Iso and I don't see scum motivation there. Like no scum ping or anything from the slot! Overall it was a very neutral read. So what am I missing here?

Is it a gameplay difference in the new generation of players? I haven't played with many 2019s and I don't think I have with any 2020 joindates other than alts, so maybe they have a tell that I am missing??

@Nash,
Consolidation on a wagon is fine at only a couple days left but El-1 is not a consolidation vote. It is not a pressure vote. It shows you want this stot eliminated. What is your case here, other than consolidation?

Man, I haven't played in a newbie game in a while. PenguinPower, save me!

[Aristophanes]

Ah shit, I didn't close my bold tag.

So much for being the "old, wise" player here!

[Aristophanes]

Fluff, lack of scum hunting, tonal gutpings, weird unvote and change of tone on BM, weird pressure vote on me, being pretty inactive himself given he is the top wagon

Thank you, Nash! I really appreciate this!

Re: Fluff etc
A lot of those were in RVS and some were direct answers to things. I could give you maybe 3 of them? But I'll have more fluff than that soon, if this is where you draw your lines, BattleMage.

Re: Tonal Gutpings
I mean, that's one way to scumhunt. I used to be way more into gutreads when I started playing. I find them average now, and a good way for scum to hide.

Re: BM unvote
I mean, this is pretty sudden and drastic. I will give you that. What makes you think this comes from scum though? A drastic change in stance often comes from town reevaluating things, or seeing a sudden town motivation behind a slit which had been missed or masked prior to this! Heck, I could point to a game which just wrapped up last week where this happened to a read on me after being deathtunneled for like 6 game days! We were both town, he just came around on it all of a sudden!

Could it be scummy? Maybe. But town are far more likely to reevaluate a slot than scum are and it looks like they had no need to reevaluate BM here.

Re: Weird Vote; Inactive
Their posting is about middle of the road in frequency and being a lead wagin doesn't mean they will suddenly post more as any alignment. And is this a bit of OMGUS too?

They should definitely be arguing for their life and making a case for one of the other players as a counterwagon. It is not the time for them to pressure vote. However would scum not be fighting harder here too?

Like, I don't see any scum motivation in these posts or points.
Do you?

[Aristophanes]

If marashu is town, this guy is mafia trying to anticipate a good position on the ml scenario for tomorrow.

Nope! Nice attempt at setting up lynches though. You just got yourself a light scumlean!

I could point to that same game which just wrapped up where I argued against the first 3 eliminations to no avail! I was town. All 3 were town. I was trying to save them and failed.

I have a bit of a tendancy to white knight people, it is true. But I have no intention of gaining anything peraonally from it, other than saving a townread.

Ninja'd
Ooooo quoting your own post 2 posts later for emphasis! What fun!

You do know that becomes unnecessary filler unless it's needed for a new page or you plan to make it a recurring meme through the game, right?

Meh, you do you I suppose.

This is not to say Mara is a townread here. They are almost entirely null. But I don't see the scumminess it appears thebrest of you do!

[Aristophanes]

Actually, Worcestershire, you posted that pretty quickly to discredit my post without engaging it.

Do you have nothing to say about 764??

Why choose to discredit me instead of replying?

[Aristophanes]

Man, I haven't played in a newbie game in a while. PenguinPower, save me!

I haven't played a Newbie since I became the NQ Listmod, so I can't help you there!

You can join my townbin though. scum!Ari isn't this verbose.

Aw thanks PP!

I guess we're along for this ride together then!

I noticed you aren't voting. What is the reason for that? I know you're V/la so respond when you can. It's just getting a little closer to deadline and we have an El-1 active. I'd think you'd at least be somewhere on the votecount!

(I have read 1 of your posts, and it is quoted here. Forgive me if you've said something about this already)

[Aristophanes]

I repped in like two days ago as the main wagon with a bunch of vanities and a Marashu counter. I haven't read anything prior to my entrance so I'm trying to get a feel for everyone and Marashu is now at H-1.

Oof, I can give you slack then! That's never a fun time.

I have townreads on super and looker, and Marashu was my counter, so probs okay with that going through. Not a fan of Nash's pop in vote though, and I don't know how I feel about Tux and SteakMarinade.

I mean, I appreciate the post by Nash, but I also hope they follow it up with some responses.

Marashu was your CW turned main wagon, eh? This is interesting. I look forward to what the flip might tell us about a lot of players if it does go through.

I'll have to have a look at the other players mentioned (and unmentioned) as I started reading the RVS last night and fell asleep after ~3-5 pages.

Thanks again PP!

[Aristophanes]

Who's SUPP?

Speakeasy User Popularity Poll. 2020 just wrapped up, and the losers of the top 10 bet have to have anime avatars from the winner.

I was one of the lucky losers

[Aristophanes]

[Aristophanes]

I mean, I appreciate the post by Nash, but I also hope they follow it up with some responses.

My issue is it's just links to other people's opinions...so yeah. Follow up will be good.

Absolutely agree! I think it will be quite telling.

[Aristophanes]

What games did you mention ? (Links)

Oooo we've found the metadiver!
Good luck with this one...the game was long and had a fucktonne (yes, that's metric, deal with it) of replacements. I'll like relevant sections though.

The game in question is SIR Disease Mafia. I replaced into it D1 as a VT.

Re: BM unvote
I mean, this is pretty sudden and drastic. I will give you that. What makes you think this comes from scum though? A drastic change in stance often comes from town reevaluating things, or seeing a sudden town motivation behind a slit which had been missed or masked prior to this!

Heck, I could point to a game which just wrapped up last week where this happened to a read on me after being deathtunneled for like 6 game days! We were both town, he just came around on it all of a sudden!

Quick (later replaced by his alt, LicketyQuickety) and I replaced in on the same page. Not long after, he started scumreading me (~post 2000 of the game and ~200 into his own posts, of thich there are 1300 or so...). I'm going to skip ahead but Iso and read as much as you like. in posts 8300-8550 he was STILL scumreading me and had been pushing me in post after post.

Then all of a sudden 2 posts later he votes someone else and explains why (in the vaguest terms possible). I don't know what I did or what he suddenly realized, but all of a sudden, after 5 day phases and 6000 posts, I was a top tier townread out of the blue!

So this totally can and does happen, and I usually see it from town.

If marashu is town, this guy is mafia trying to anticipate a good position on the ml scenario for tomorrow.

Nope! Nice attempt at setting up lynches though. You just got yourself a light scumlean!

I could point to that same game which just wrapped up where I argued against the first 3 eliminations to no avail! I was town. All 3 were town. I was trying to save them and failed.

I have a bit of a tendancy to white knight people, it is true. But I have no intention of gaining anything personally from it, other than saving a townread.

I don't think I put this much work into casing that game

within that game

so lol let's do this!

I remember fighting far harder for ETL!Town than I can find in my Iso, but I fought for them here and was accused of white knighting for townpoints because of this post mostly.

I argued against the D2 elimination on Jake and after that I forget my stances but I think they were a lot more agreeable.

The point here is basically that I'm a white-knighty person when I make cases. I think this should suffice. Read on if you like though!

[Aristophanes]

I still exist! I can consolidate the Marashu wagon if the top kill preferences are him and PP at this state.
VOTE: Marashu

THIS IS H-1

Do you still think

votato

Aristophanes is the scummiest?

Yes. I don't expect to see a wagon form on him though.

Ah, I see. The read on me is a carry-over from *shudders* votato.

I get that, and I look for consistency in reads when a replacement takes over too. But in this case you are incorrect.

[Aristophanes]

Re: BM unvote
I mean, this is pretty sudden and drastic. I will give you that. What makes you think this comes from scum though? A drastic change in stance often comes from town reevaluating things, or seeing a sudden town motivation behind a slit which had been missed or masked prior to this! Heck, I could point to a game which just wrapped up last week where this happened to a read on me after being deathtunneled for like 6 game days! We were both town, he just came around on it all of a sudden!

Could it be scummy? Maybe. But town are far more likely to reevaluate a slot than scum are and it looks like they had no need to reevaluate BM here.

Re: Weird Vote; Inactive
Their posting is about middle of the road in frequency and being a lead wagin doesn't mean they will suddenly post more as any alignment. And is this a bit of OMGUS too?

They should definitely be arguing for their life and making a case for one of the other players as a counterwagon. It is not the time for them to pressure vote. However would scum not be fighting harder here too?

Like, I don't see any scum motivation in these posts or points.
Do you?

"Coming around on TM" is a point in favour for Mara since it's bad for scum!marashu to townread a slot which has a lot of potential to gain traction, when he has been the top wagon for so long, but that's exactly the kind of play he can adopt for towncred. I haven't seen anything in TM's ISO (after Mara's vote) which gives me townpings so I can see scum motivation here for sure. I'm not making a point on his activity, placing his vote on me just for "pressure" when there's a lot of AI content shows a lack of scum hunting.

Have you seen their scum game and do you believe this is within their scumrange?

Because "this looks towny so it could be scum manipulation" is a tough sell.
I do think it is a great point that voting you there instead of providing content is potentially scummy. That said, why wouldn't they vote a counterwagon? Much like townreading a slot that could be miselimable (oof, that's clunky) makes no sense for scum, neither does a lack of campaigning for the elimination of a counterwagon over their own elim.

[Aristophanes]

Have you seen their scum game and do you believe this is within their scumrange?

Because "this looks towny so it could be scum manipulation" is a tough sell.
I do think it is a great point that voting you there instead of providing content is potentially scummy. That said, why wouldn't they vote a counterwagon? Much like townreading a slot that could be miselimable (oof, that's clunky) makes no sense for scum, neither does a lack of campaigning for the elimination of a counterwagon over their own elim.

Would've been towny if it was a good townread. I don't think it is, hence scummy. Not going for a counterwagon makes no sense for town!Mara either, so I don't think it comes under the same logic.

Sure it does, if Town!Mara thinks the other possible wagons (specifically PP I suppose) are town. As a VT in that case (I mean, odds are pretty good there) sometimes going down is better than potentially outing a PR with a counterwagon.

ANIME GUILD IS TRIUMPHING

Oh good lord I'm in a guild now.

This is bad. This is very bad!

[Aristophanes]

@Mara
You really should claim at this point

[Aristophanes]

the game was long and had a fucktonne (yes, that's metric, deal with it)

Mind... Breaking... Must... Imperial... Feet... Inches....

Imperial... Feet...
Imperial... March!

IMPERIAL MARCH!!!



Guys, this guy is a damned SITH LORD!!!


WHY ARE WE NOT ELIMINATING A SITH LORD!?!?!?

[Aristophanes]

Town!Mara must have had some scumread to pursue

You would think so, yeah. And they had never mentioned you prior to this either, which is also odd.

Iunno, honestly these are questions for Mara which I can only speculate on.

Although I just remembered one thing from my Iso dive, and that is that we shouldn't be leashing the hider. I mean, really.They should crumb their hide each day before deadline in an obvious enough way (while remaining covert). Why would we leash our investigative!?!?

[Aristophanes]

• I want in that Speakeasy group

I'm curious what the hold-up is. I could see if we had a competing wagon, but we just have people not voting at all.

Request Speakeasy access here

(I hope the link works)

[Aristophanes]

Oh, and the delay is so we can finish conversing for the day.

[Aristophanes]

VCA isn't a D1 thing dw Tuxedo.

And don't worry, I get called a girl unironically irl all the time. Despite strongly advocating for proper pronouns on others, I don't care when it comes to myself.

Also also, I called myself "old and wise" because of my joindate.
The sheer number of mafia games I've played should tell you that I am not as wise as I like to think. Old, well that's up for debate!

Also, that was hammer, eh?
So much for waiting for duscussion to wrap up for the day...

[Aristophanes]

Shit okay, Tuxedo Town methinks

[Aristophanes]

i'm fine with marashu claiming, only on the proviso that if he claims vanilla we actually lynch him. I'm fking sick of these setups where we just run up a bunch of people and out all the PRs.

You have a point about outing all the PRs. Still, it's sub optimal scum play to claim VT there.
VOTE: NO ELIMINATION is the best alternative because we can't risk losing mechanical info like you said.

No. This gets us no info and no info gets us beaten.

We flip Mara. The vt claim is fine.

If there is no good alternative wagon we stick it out at this point, even if they are town.

[Aristophanes]

Okay but without a flip and mod confirmation they could still be a sleeper scum.

It's highly unlikely but js you can't just assume this.

[Aristophanes]

Aristophanes who's your ideal lynch? You were defending Marashu quite adamantly there for a few pages and now you want to flip him.

Welllll considering the timeline and the claim, I am fine with the elimination of Mara.

I was arguing to get a case from people because I did not see scum motivations, not because I townread the slot.

Like, swinging a hammer elsewhere at this point would be a bit difficult, so I'll save my thoughts for D2. I have intent to deadline hammer if it comes to that though.

[Aristophanes]

Oof I just realized I missed a page here.

Gonna have to read up, but it may not be tn. Not gonna delay it much tho because ~deadlines~

[Aristophanes]

I have been celebrating the day that Jesus invented 'Murica by kayaking, fishing, getting a sunburn, shooting cans with a pellet gun, throwing axes at shit, and getting drunk.

So basically I am prepared to drop the hammer if need be.......ready to spread some freedom around.

Drop the hammer and pick up a sickle!

[Aristophanes]

Is Mara at H-1?

Should be H-2 but you and Plane together can end it.

Yeah, I can help. No rush on the hammer though. I am happy to wait until conversations are completed.

P.edit - this post contained a vote but it looks like ppl are still talking so lets not.

I have been celebrating the day that Jesus invented 'Murica by kayaking, fishing, getting a sunburn, shooting cans with a pellet gun, throwing axes at shit, and getting drunk.

So basically I am prepared to drop the hammer if need be.......ready to spread some freedom around.

Celebrating 'murika by hammering the Canadian. I see how it is...

my count also has it at H-2

The Canadian

As if you are the only one.

What the hell am I in this case!?!?

I have been celebrating the day that Jesus invented 'Murica by kayaking, fishing, getting a sunburn, shooting cans with a pellet gun, throwing axes at shit, and getting drunk.

So basically I am prepared to drop the hammer if need be.......ready to spread some freedom around.

Drop the hammer and pick up a sickle!

Yesssss! I love TMBG!
Fantastic!

[Aristophanes]

Def holding off on a hammer until Gypyx gets a chance here.

I will get you that readslist D2.
I would consider a Nash elim reasonable though right now. That would be my preferred I think.

[Aristophanes]

We have 39h left. Gypyx is still catching up. We have time to explore Nash, even if it is just to set up for D2.

Dhit, this is a very town post.

Mara, can you provide a Nash case?

I will work on one before deadline as well, but at worm atm and DnD tn so I don't know when I'll have the time.

[Aristophanes]

And that, friends, is how the forum broke.

[Aristophanes]

(

@Mods
This is a weird forum quirk Kison was working on a solve for 2-3 years ago but it happens very infrequently. Please leave it as is. It may intrigue him to see what happened here!

)

---

Last i knew the admin team are aware of it but indeed, no fix yet.

- tw

[Aristophanes]

Done catching up, i have mara as light scumlean but i'd much rather have a penguin Execute there

Def holding off on a hammer until Gypyx gets a chance here.

I will get you that readslist D2.
I would consider a Nash elim reasonable though right now. That would be my preferred I think.

Why wait D2 to provide content? You're never sure if you're making it to D2, as if you

knew

you were making it into D2

I don't want my readslist to effect the nightkill.

[Aristophanes]

I Marashu town I'd be more inclined to look at Aristophanes

He spent a lot of time defending Marashu without pushing an alternative wagon and now he's cool with hammering that because deadline, but still doesn't want to share reads.

I mean, they are going to flip town but I stand by my actions here. I'd love to have this discussion D2 though!


I may forget later so
VOTE: Mara

Should be H-2 I believe

[Aristophanes]

And the slot progressed in the meantime.

I do not know I will live, but giving eod reads is silly rn.

Their claim amd subsequent posts have convinced me they are town, but I don't want to run up a potential pr, and the associatives fir thisbwagon may be telling post-flip.

And I'm doing this from work. Sorry if I was off on my H-×

Does this answer your questions and/or quell your concerns?

[Aristophanes]

With 7 votes to hammer...

I would recheck this math...

Mod Note

UIOJEFUIAJWDU(HAOWIPK{DIAPWD

[Aristophanes]

Oh, I'm in prod range...

Uh, I'll be back on Saturday. Sorry, I'm busy with a lot of projects right now and won't be able to give this any time until then.

[Aristophanes]

Ari! Give me something before you disappear plskthx. I liked you yesterday...I’m iffy today.

Sure thing my friend!

Mara flipping scum really surprised me, so I need to rethink a few things and read their Iso before I commit to things.

I will say that there being no mention of Nash, like not a single one, in Mara's Iso until more than 700 posts into the game, and then 43 mentions in the following 200 (I mean, half of that is the broken quote but still) with a sudden scumread is a lot more interesting than I initially gave it credit for. I am going to have to do some wagonomics on it and see if the pivot looks like scum trying to save their ass, scum trying a light bus to pivot attention and break up their wagon while getting rid of associatives, or like scum flailing.

I'll have a readslist later, since the scumflip changes an awful lot for me.
Sorry Tux.

(I almost posted this in the wrong thread, as in, in Mish Mash. That would have been bad. Thank god for ninjas!)

[Aristophanes]

I totally missed that Worsh got replaced. Froppy scared the shit out of me. We truly are being overrun by anime.

I forgive you Ari, but only just.

Seriously, can I WOTC this and demand no more anime avatars replace in please?

And Froppy, you don't think scum would prefer to hammer or at least be late to a wagon on there buddy who was almost guaranteed to be hammered?

Unfortunately you are but one among the crowd, and the crowds seem to say, overwhelmingly, that Aminu avatars are lit!

[Aristophanes]

Prod received.

I have to shower then I will work on a post here.

[Aristophanes]

Prod received.

I have to shower then I will work on a post here.

Long shower there, buddy.

Ya I lied.

I blame the discussion side of this forum for roping me in again.

[Aristophanes]

Prod received.

I have to shower then I will work on a post here.

Long shower there, buddy.

Ya I lied.

I blame the discussion side of this forum for roping me in again.

have u not found the time to read the game and give ur opinion, or simply dnt want to share ur opinion on the current gamestate?

Working on it now.
I have not had the time to properly devote to this game, for instance, I worked 10.5 hours today without breaks and thus got home to immediately pass out for an hour. I am running on post-nap energy alone right now. I could go through my week, but who cares. The short of it is that I have not felt like Mafia, and have had little time to change that.

I have a larger post coming (Or at least one with some actual content) right now so bear with me.

[Aristophanes]

Oh good, we still have more than a week left. I was getting worried I'd stalled the whole day phase away!

Sorry I'm not in much of a mafia mood lately. I am here though, so let's do it!

Reading through Mara's Iso I am documenting town/scumpings via interactions
Word - townping
Votato - scumping (but I know better, being in that slot)
Dr Drew - stronger scumpings
BM -

maybe scumping

lolnope that's SvT
Tux - strong townping
Midari/PP - townping
Pii/Nash - Scumping

Actually at this point I'm pretty sure Wagonomics point to Dr Drew and Nash as the only reasonable remaining scum pairing.
I have come to this conclusion by post 328

As I read Dr Drew I see reasons to hold off on them. Nash is definitely preferred today.

BTW @Mods, I fucking LOVE these joined ISOs! I was skeptical that they would be useful at first but Hot Damn!

I read through Nash and this is the most Obvscum Iso especially with Mara associations. Like, so obvious. Voting here.

For good measure I'm looking at the PP slot
Yeah this is probtown.

Cool, I don't feel like making a bit quote-page case for any of this. But yeah.

VOTE: Nash

PP Def Town on a red flip, these competing wagons are extremely unlikely to be S/S

[Aristophanes]

RIP

It was nice playing with you, PP.

[Aristophanes]

Hey, so, before you guys vote to get rid of me for arguing against both Red flips thus far, consider that I would never have done that as scum!

It's about all I've got, here. I'm town tho.
I'll see about rooting out that last scum before the day is up.

[Aristophanes]

Tracker can't be 100% sure they got a VT other than last night phase, but I agree that a massclaim can only benefit us right now! We have 3 Miselims before we hit ELo. Game should run itself now, unless the last scum is some kind of god!

[Aristophanes]

I am not going to hide my intentions here.

You post gifs of anime.....you move up the Drew scumdar.

This was the reason I dropped my Drew suspicions yesterday.

Glad I read the crumb correctly!

[Aristophanes]

Nash by reads but that dueling wagons thing yesterday has me doubting it.

[Aristophanes]

Good game!

I had the absolute worst reads ever, but we pulled it off!

I thought Mara was town but the designated Elim.

I thought PP was town and Nash was scum D2.

I thought Nash couldn't be scum D3 because of the competing wagon with PP but I had no better option.

That said, I thought Tux was a PR and caught the Hider crumb. So at least I can hunt town easily enough!

Gokd game and good modding! You added some really nice things into the game, Jackson, and I appreciated them!
Good mod notes, clean VC, the joined ISOs I have never seen done but I adored them! Quick replacements, The Worst co-mod, etc were all great!

Good game guys! This setup might need review, as Dunn mentioned, as it can mechanically win the game itself with the right circumstances as seen here.