Open 208 - Fire & Ice Mafia >Over!<

[XScorpion]

I'm here I'm here!!! confirm!

Vote: Iceninja

because I love RVS.
I'm EST.

[XScorpion]

XScorpion: How long have you been here for?

Well, the date next to my name says August 2009 so I'll go with that.
pwnman's argument sucks.

unvote
Vote:pwnman

[XScorpion]

Interesting, why is Saint Kerrigan's post more valid then pwnmans? Why is pwnman's wagon vote scummy?

Because pwnman was joining the wagon, not starting it.
Also the nice OMGUS vote gives me good reason to leave my vote right where it is.

[XScorpion]

I never said the people who are on the same wagon as me are town either. I don't mind lynching a member of one of the mafia groups with the help of the other, and it's quite possible that you and I are both right: StK and Crazy are part of one mafia, and Pwnman is in the other. The fact that Pwnman did it first though, and followed up with an OMGUS vote to boot, means I'd like him gone first, although the order doesn't REALLY matter.

[XScorpion]

I'm feeling crazy.

unvote
Vote: SaintKerrigan

WOOOOOO

[XScorpion]

XScorp, care to give a reason with that vote, or do you prefer reckless abandon?

Reckless all the way. I just felt like doing something awesome ^_^

[XScorpion]

Who besides me is lurking right now? Apparently a lot of people, but who wants to make a list?

[XScorpion]

I don't have a meta. Trust me.
I'm completely unpredictable. So don't even bother
I never play two games the same way.

I'm now going to OMGUS vote in an attempt to draw more attention and get myself lynched because that's what I do.

unvote
Vote: DarkLightA

Be rational. Get real

NO U

[XScorpion]

Not necessarily. Suppose I was the doctor (not saying I am). It would be better to act stupid and make scum think I am useless than to get chosen for night-kill based on pro-town play.

[XScorpion]

unvote
Vote: Sanhora

POST OR DIE!

[XScorpion]

unvote
Vote: DarkLightA

Don't listen to what other people tell you. You should vote who you think is the scummiest and disregard if people tell you "oh maybe he's just stupid town." If you keep thinking that about everyone, you will never catch scum.
And yes I understand the paradox about telling someone to not listen to what people say.

[XScorpion]

You are just not doing anything to alleviate my scum read on you.

I'm sorry, it's almost as though you thought that I care if people think I'm scum or not. But that would be just silly, right?

[XScorpion]

Hey, a list!

Town

Nacho
DTM
deer
Scott
RayFrost
Sanhora
MindGamer
Iceninja
Darklight
Crazy
StK
pwnman

Scum

unvote
Vote: pwnman

because he is scum.

[XScorpion]

I'd kill pwnman
cookies plz

[XScorpion]

Hey Bio Hazard!

[XScorpion]

More deserving than who?
Also my bad, forgot RayFrost got replaced. lol.

[XScorpion]

Won't be around much this week due to schoolwork and such, but I'll try to come on whenever possible. If you have any questions to ask me specifically, please do! Many apologies to town.

[XScorpion]

Dana, you could always vote for yourself if you're scum, that would be awesome.

[XScorpion]

Apologies for lack of content...I am interested in playing, but school and the sickness I just got over have been stretching my schedule pretty thin. I'll try to make up for missed time, but again, if you want me to answer any questions just ask.

Question time!

Ice:

Why are you disinclined to believe Nacho's claim that I am just a bad townie? What differentiates me from pwnman?

Bio:

You basically state what happened in the game, without an opinion of who is scum. Who is?

DLA:

How important is the rest of town's opinion of you? Do you disagree that it is scummy to unvote just because people are upset about it, as you did with StK (before revoting)?

RedCoyote:

What makes you say Ice is pushing DTM when his vote is on me, and he hasn't changed that vote for 13 posts? Is Ice's opinion of me justified, and should he be voting me? And what do you think of what Locke Lamora said?

-Too many people going 'look at this list of lurkers'. Ask them some questions, build a case, ask the mod for a prod/replacement. Don't just say 'you're lurking, contribute more'.

Also, nacho did not catch rayfrost being replaced either. Does that mean Nacho does not have interest in this game?

Mindgamer:

RedCoyote said he did not like Ice's stance against DTM, yet you are the one actually voting for him. Why do you think RedCoyote considers Ice scum and not you then?

DTM:

Can you give me a good reason why you shouldn't simply put your vote back on StK/dana? If not, who is a better person for your vote?

Nacho:

Contrasting the above question, can you give me a good reason why you aren't unvoting pwnman/Locke? If not, why do you think Locke is scum, without referring to his predecessor?


@Mindgamer:I'd investigate StK/danakillsu

unvote
Vote: Danakillsu

Why are you asking town what to do? Why don't you vote for DTM or myself if you find us suspicious?

[XScorpion]

I have a meta read on you to suggest that you're a half decent player.

You might want to take a read of Open 205 and see if my play thus far is much different.

[XScorpion]

I'm going to point out that the only person to say it was a difference of "politics" was RedCoyote, not Nacho.

[XScorpion]

@Mod: Iceninja unvoted me

NOT ON MY WATCH!

Fixed.... ~Nik

[XScorpion]

The reason is obvious: I think he might be scum.

[XScorpion]

Nacho included Rayfrost on his scum/town list after DTM replaced in. So did Darklight.

[XScorpion]

As for people questioning me about the distinction between stupid and scummy, I said what I said because my scum reads on XScorpion can be written off as idiotic play. If said idiotic play continues, than the scum read is more established. If he starts playing for real and seems to actually be interested in the game, and stops giving me scum reads, then I'm going to write off much of my case against him as him being an idiot early in the game. At the moment his single good post hasn't done nearly enough, so he remains my number 2 suspect.

So what you're saying is...you think that scummy and stupid are the same thing? I'm not getting where you're coming from...what makes a smart player more town than a stupid one?

Not liking how Dana just hopped on the deer wagon without offering any new material. Are you just going to vote on deer without actually asking him questions or explaining WHY he is scum?

[XScorpion]

Sorry for needing a prod, I just had a lot of stuff IRL going on including an all-nighter I just pulled last night for great justice.

XScorpion, in your last post you said you didn't like how Danakillsu jumped on the Deer wagon without providing and original accusations. What are your thoughs on Danakillsu's 5-minute analysis on DarkLightA?

This "analysis", if you can even call it that, just reaffirms my belief that Dana is just looking to join the easiest lynch who isn't him. I highly doubt that Dana even did an ISO; I think he probably just said he was going to, waited 5 minutes, then placed his vote. This means he is either scum trying to get through the day, or a very bad townie (inb4 hypocrisy). In either case, I don't see why DarkLight is worth lynching over him.

At this point, I'm really not convinced I should vote for anyone other than Dana, and I really don't think another lynch makes more sense, unless someone wants to argue otherwise?
@Ice: What is your opinion of a Dana lynch?

[XScorpion]

@Everyone: Do you think the other fire mafioso was on the DLA wagon at the end of yesterday? I don't.

Why not? Is it simply because you think Scott is town, or because you don't want people to suspect you?

Vote: RedCoyote

[XScorpion]

Ok...so first RedCoyote is all "oh Scott must be town, dana must have been bussed by his buddy" and now, once he realizes that he is the only other fire candidate on Darklight's bus, so he has to push Scott. Does anyone else see this?

[XScorpion]

I'm noticing everyone is debating between whether Red or Scott is fire mafia atm...should we also be looking for the ice mafioso, or leave that to tomorrow?

[XScorpion]

Well, leaving the wagon on Dana ended up lynching scum, did it not? Is there some problem with voting for someone who I think is scum?

[XScorpion]

I can't really see what's the case on RedCoyote at the moment. Can anyone summarize it for me?

Day 1 and beginning of day 2 Redcoyote claims Scott is super high on his town radar. Then suddenly he decides that Scott is fire mafia and votes him. This to me looks like fire mafia realizing that the only other person who could be pinned as fire mafia on DarkLight's wagon was Scott, so it is in his best interest to divert attention from himself to Scott.

[XScorpion]

I thought I made my case pretty obvious.

Ok...so first RedCoyote is all "oh Scott must be town, dana must have been bussed by his buddy" and now, once he realizes that he is the only other fire candidate on Darklight's bus, so he has to push Scott. Does anyone else see this?

[XScorpion]

Suppose RC is scum. Let's break that ISO down line by line.

Wonderful! Now both sides are satisfied.

Translation: Although my scumbuddy got killed yesterday, it's ok because the other scumteam lost someone too.

The question is... where do we go from here?

Translation: Who are the people that town suspect so that I can know what wagon I need to push to avoid my own lynch?

@Everyone: Do you think the other fire mafioso was on the DLA wagon at the end of yesterday? I don't.

Translation: Please try not to pay any attention to the DLA wagon because I was on it and I am scum.

I think we should focus our attention on players that could arguably still be either side. I think it's just dumb luck that we basically had an Ice versus Fire lynch yesterday. I'm really anxious to reread the end of D1 now.

Translation: I want to draw attention to people who MAY be on either scum team, rather than myself who is more likely to be fire than ice.

[XScorpion]

Then here's what happens: You vote no lynch, both scum decide to target the doctor, you're back where you started. This idea is stupid.

-The Doctor is very UNLIKELY to die. Both scum have the same motivation to kill the doc, but if they both do so, there will be a nokill. They are likely to transfer their motivation from the day (hunt for scum) to hunting for them at night. So a crosskill is LIKELY, resulting in a town win.

You basically just told the scum teams that the best idea is to target the doctor after no-lynch. Way to ruin your own plan.

Regarding your read: You manage to say exactly what happened in the game without giving any opinions as to who is scum, and you don't even FoS (since you don't seem to want to vote. Good job </sarcasm>. I have never played a game where No Lynch has actually helped, and I really don't believe it will help here.

unvote
Vote: LoneWolf

for trying to convince town not to lynch so that he has a free shot at the doctor.
@Kthnxbye: Assuming you are the doctor, please put some effort into this game? </hypocrite>. It doesn't do to have the only confirmed townie simply playing along with a plan that makes no sense and is possibly proposed by scum.

[XScorpion]

I'm just going to pretend like the last 3 posts don't exist.
Pro-tip: posting while drunk is a bad idea xD

[XScorpion]

Because it totally makes sense for dana's scumpartner to point him out then lead a bandwagon on him </sarcasm>.

"Telling scum" to target the doctor after a no lynch? Yeah we'll be right back where we started, but we'll have an idea of the scum's personalities, like DTM said, if they both go for the doctor they aren't playing like a vig anymore.

Except only one team is "playing like a vig". Pretty sure Ice (the player) wasn't at the top of anyone's scumlist...

Your motivation is clear: finding scum. Like I said though, EVERYONE has that motivation today, so I don't know if you want to lynch me because I'm scum or because you think I'm the opposing team and want to eliminate crosskilll as a possibility.

This is supposition. You don't know for sure that both scum teams want to lynch the other today; I think scum would be just as happy if a random townie got lynched today, so long as it wasn't them. DLA just pointed out all the reasons why it is completely moronic to no lynch today.

so I don't know if you want to lynch me

because I'm scum

or because you think I'm the opposing team

Is this a claim?

[XScorpion]

EBWODP:

DTM

pointed out the reasons
yay for mixing up names

[XScorpion]

#465 makes me very happy with my vote on Scotty, all those posts he linked of RC' seemed to have been twisted in his favor. And then DTM+LL jump on, which makes me want to narrow down the last Ice to them (seeing an opportunity to lynch a Fire candidate).

So basically you're saying that Scott is fire, and DTM or LL is the ice. The problem with this theorem is that it contradicts your previous statement that "everyone is trying to lynch scum" today, because that means that fire and ice are aiming to get the theoretical townie (RedCoyote) lynched. So which is it? Did you decide to drop the theorem, or do you want to change your accusations?

[XScorpion]

Top fire read is RedCoyote, top ice read is LoneWolf.
Red for his inability to state a concrete opinion on things, and LoneWolf for trying to convince town to go along with an anti-town plan on voting.

[XScorpion]

My bad
If I had to guess for a second ice mafia, I'd say Locke since he seemed to defend DLA on day 1 with posts such as

DLA gives me the sense that he's so caught up in whatever it is he's aiming to do, he's not actually paying proper attention to the game. For instance, he completely missed the deadline extension and I've also got the impression that when I question him he's just automatically throwing back defences without actually reading what I'm saying, or even what he's posting.

[XScorpion]

Here's my theory: whichever mafia side you may be on doesn't matter, we should be lynching the scummiest person rather than whoever was tied closest to dana/DLA.
And obviously the reason I think you are the scummiest person is because you seem to disagree with that. Only scum should actually care which side is which, because I'm just as happy lynching scum from either team, whereas you have a completely opposite opinion:

Back to scum hunting: I think we should look for Fire today. I mean, yesterday the main wagon was on Fire. The Ice guy was shot at night. We have plenty more reads because we lynched Fire yesterday then Ice, even if DLA was the next likely wagon.

I'm simply obliging Nacho's request for 3 people I think are scum, and I decided that since I still think RedCoyote is the most likely to be the other fire mafia, assuming you are scum, you would then be ice by process of elimination. This is simply supported by your insistence that we don't look for ice mafia today...what's wrong with just voting for who we think is the scummiest?

[XScorpion]

What's the thoughts on a Locke lynch today? I notice he is near the top of several people's ice reads...

Unvote
Vote:LL

[XScorpion]

What the hell guys?

[XScorpion]

Interested on hearing the replacement's thoughts.

unvote
Vote: LoneWolf

for caring more about what side scum are on than whether or not people appear scummy.

[XScorpion]

Lynch all liars.

unvote
Vote Nacho

[XScorpion]

No, I'm opting to lynch a liar, because you are a liar. Lynch all liars is a pretty good strategy to follow (it tends to hit scum).

[XScorpion]

But his behaviour has reverted back to 'normal' again. When I take a closer look the goofyness stopped after Night 1. Is he annoyed now that he lost his scumpartner?

Look harder. The "goofyness" stopped after on day 1, as I started Dana's wagon.

How can TheLoneWolf possible be XScorpion's TOP ice read for an anti-town plan alone when just a few weeks ago it was proven that bad plans aren't necessarily scummy?

No one ever said I was capable of learning things.

Any defense of Nacho will have to give a very good explanation of why Lynch All Liars is a bad strategy, and in my experience, LAL ALWAYS nails scum.

[XScorpion]

@Everyone voting for me: Explain why Nacho isn't a scum, despite the fact that he is a liar.

[XScorpion]

You may have only "called" me town in your first post, but for the first day and a half you acted as though you believed I was VI. How can you "forget" thinking I was town when you defended me with:

Try reading pwn in ISO and taking note of his reactions. There's an odd one out in this group, and for right now, it isn't XScorpion.

@All people voting XScorpion: Let's lynch scummy over stupid, guys.

Considering your argument on me is that I vote but don't scumhunt, what do you think about my ISO 18, 24, 25? Do you not think it hypocritical to call me out on "not advancing your case" when you did the EXACT same thing to Dana?

And if "disappearing into the great beyond" is so scummy to you, why aren't you attacking Mindgamer or Kthnx?

[XScorpion]

Apologies to RedCoyote for thinking that he was fire. No hard feelings?
Well, I did get Wolf's alignment wrong, but at least I called him out as scum (hehe).

Although Fishy does seem like the obvious choice today, I'm looking at Mindgamer and I see some interesting things...
ISO 18:

The opposite of what you said? So it's coming from a scum perspective? Not true.

Lynch all liars.

Then yesterday Mindgamer calls Nacho town. Talk about a change in opinion.

This is obviously a joke from Mindgamer's side.

FoS: SaintKerrigan

Try to avoid jumping on EVERY joke you see, will you?

ISO 19:

I have a very strong belief a DarkLightA lynch will result in a town flip.

Talk about obvious buddying here.

Topped with Mindgamer's attacks on DTM on day 1, I think Mindgamer is more likely than Fishy to be scum.

Vote: Mindgamer

I won't vote for Fishy until I hear what he has to say about "the final scum."

[XScorpion]

I didn't notice Mindgamer until recently because on day 1 Mindgamer seemed pretty town, but then after Darklight died night 1 Mindgamer suddenly became the #1 lurker, which prompted me to read him in ISO. I also find it highly suspicious that Mindgamer's first post today is an OMGUS vote in response to me calling him out. Keep in mind this is his first post in SEVEN DAYS.

As he said, he just changed his read. You were actually the only one to call Nachomamma8 a flat out liar.

No, DTM called him on it first. Nice try.

You didn't buddy Nacho because you made a grand total of seven posts on Day 2, and the only one that even mentioned Nacho was your last post before he died, simply saying that you think he's town.

This is the only time in the entire game where you say you think he's town

; on day 1, your only view of Nacho is:

Nachomamma8-Scott Brosius = 1 Mafia Scumteam... Cool

This looks to me like you just wanted to look good for town when he flipped.

[XScorpion]

That was an ironic reply to Nachomamma8 who called me scum with Pwnman without giving reasoning. 'Mindgamer-pwnman = 1 Mafia Scumteam...'

So basically you didn't mention your opinion of Nacho on day 1 at all. Hmm.

Whatever. Point is I didn't call him a liar so obviously LAL doesn't apply.

Whether you called him a liar or not does not change the fact that he lied.

[XScorpion]

Fine w/e.

unvote
Vote: Fishy

This game better be over...

[XScorpion]

My suspicions on Mindgamer are still sitting.

I'm wondering if no lynch is a sensible option here?

[XScorpion]

Vote: No lynch

[XScorpion]

Maybe Mindgamer is V/LA and didn't have enough time to submit the NK XD

[XScorpion]

I want to hear your case on RC, because if you are actually town then you should be trying as hard as possible not to get lynched. We're THIS close to winning, don't give up now.

[XScorpion]

Vote: Mindgamer

[XScorpion]

Yay, I finally won a game as scum. Thanks DLA for distancing.

[XScorpion]

Thanks for sticking up for me, DTM! You were a big help

[XScorpion]

I get called out as scum way too easily in most games, so this time I figured I'd try the WIFOM strategy of acting so scummy that people would say I couldn't possibly be scum

Yes TLW, I shot you because you suspected me. Mindgamer was on the right track, unfortunately he gave up without pursuing me

And btw, even if I was town, I still support Lynch all liars.