Open 374 Pick Your Power - Redux!
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Ugh, RD, how can you so completely miss the point?
The hammer itself never bothered anyone at all. It's what he said with his hammer - and I had had a long exchange with him before that in which I already decided he was quite scummy outside of that.
He buddied Tierce HARD - like, hard hard hard - with the obvious and specific purpose of engendering a town read from her based on a personal relationship. He fully admitted that Tierce, if town, is scary when she picks a target. I went through this in exhaustive length previously. THEN, when someone asked him why he was buddying Tierce, he denied buddying Tierce! The buddying was so obvious, in fact, that I had written it off as a too-obvious-he-did-it-on-purpose tell at first, before I realized he has NEVER PLAYED WITH TOWN TIERCE. Most of his buddying was based off of how good he says town Tierce is - but he's NEVER played with her as town! I questioned him on this and his responses were quite scummy indeed.
And then his hammer ... ugh. It's not about the hammer. It's about how after I had this exchange with him, and after he realized he was NOT going to get Tierce to read him as town, he made passive, weak, lame pushes at her. He was lining up mislynches. It has LITERALLY ZERO percent to do with the fact that he hammered.
And he's really been a limp noodle this game, which is unlike when I have played with him as town previously. His play reminds me of his scum play in Hoopla's recent PGO open game, which the site ate.
Even if you want to argue that his hammer is a minor towntell (and I disagree), why would a minor towntell outweigh all the things Xalxe has done that are scummy?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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WAIT A MINUTE YO I'm not voting Xalxe. Woops.
VOTE: Xalxe-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 73, Rainbowdash wrote:Wasnt it hiplop and not xalxe that was doing the weird buddy/threatening thing to Tierce?
NO IT WAS NOT
That's seriously the only response you have?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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LKJDA;LSKFDJA;SLDKFJ
NO
THERE WAS A THING WITH HIPLOP BUT IT'S 100% NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Not really sure why I got prodded when I've been posting regularly and just waiting for someone else to SAY SOMETHING.
For the love of God, can we lynch Xalxe now?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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You had better "decide" about Xalxe, and fast. What are your thoughts on him?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I suspect Tierce but don't think they're on the same scumteam. So if I'm wrong about Xalxe, I would go there, but if Xalxe is scum, Tierce is probably town. I'm not entirely sure about my other suspicions atm. I had a better handle on them before the crash.
izak's recent interactions with RD are pretty effing terrible though.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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What do you think of Xalxe's obvious lurking?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 135, Magister Ludi wrote:Still looking for an isa replacement. And probably Xalxe too, hasn't posted in nine days here despite multiple prods and reading my pm's and being on the site. Go ostracize him.
How is this not an amazingly excellent reason to vote for Xalxe?!
RD: With izak, I'm back where I was within him on day 1. I keep flip flopping on him. At first, I found him scummy, but then he does other things that give me town. I'm conflicted. I don't like his most recent interactions with you because he hasn't done any "pushing" of Xalxe and has left it up to others (like me).
As for Shiidaji, I had a town read on her, but not for any particularly compelling reason. I hate how little she posts, but having replaced her before, I doubt that's much indication of alignment.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Yeah, that's TOTALLY the reason I'm not voting for Xalxe. It has nothing to do with why I've been wanting him dead since the dawn of Day 2. Nothing at all...
I'm pretty sure you can read better than that.
Xalxe isn't avoiding the site. He's avoiding THIS GAME. With pressure on him. That's a higher than average chance he's scum, right there alone. If that will convince people to vote him where my more valid arguments have not, you'll see no protests from me.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I've already discussed that - what's more, I've discussed it again POST-crash.
You are not giving me confident "reads the thread and has any clue what is going on" feelings lately. It concerns me.
In Hoopla's recently tiger-eaten game, I played with scum-Xalxe. I suspected him and NS fairly equally, but decided to push NS over him. They were mutually exclusive suspicions. NS was town and Xalxe was scum. I think I've played with him as scum elsewhere, but that's my most recent experience with him.
It's not relevant. This is not a meta-based case.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Why wouldn't you believe that your increasing detachment from the thread concerns me? What scum motivation would I have to fake concern over this - especially with you voting for me for apparently no reason? As guilty conscious scum, why would I want you to look at the thread in MORE detail? It doesn't make sense to me, but whatevs. I don't see that as alignment relevant in any way, shape, or form.
I don't think I have any experience with Xalxe selectively ignoring a game while continuing to post elsewhere on the site, of any alignment.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Why wouldn't I?
Which game was that? I don't remember being in any c9++ games recently...
I had absolutely perfect archives before the crash, but the tigers ate my recent wiki updates, so you'll have to forgive me on the memory front.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Oh, did Xalxe flake out of that? Was there evidence that he was flaking only out of THAT?
Either way, I don't really care. Xalxe is scum for his in-game actions.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I CARE IF XALXE GETS LYNCHED
I WANT HIM DEAD-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I don't know Xalxe's alignment, so why wouldn't I consider the possibility he was town - especially in that context? That's nonsensical.
Also, it's QUITE clear that I don't put much weight at all into Xalxe's lurking and was simply hoping to get people to lynch the person I think is scum.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 175, DeasVail wrote:In post 173, Amrun wrote:I don't know Xalxe's alignment, so why wouldn't I consider the possibility he was town - especially in that context? That's nonsensical.
Also, it's QUITE clear that I don't put much weight at all into Xalxe's lurking and was simply hoping to get people to lynch the person I think is scum.
You would consider the possibility that he's town, but your attitude to him comes across as greatly exaggerated unless you are town absolutely certain he's scum.
I don't get why you'd try to influence townies to change their read on Xalxe based on something you don't think impacts alignment.
That's how being town works, DV... Even if you really think you're right, you can never be 100% sure, so you have to consider all outcomes. And in the context of that post, I was asked what I thought of Tierce and Xalxe, and the answer is that I find them both scum, but don't think they are scum together. You're exaggerating greatly.
Why wouldn't I? What I think are perfectly valid arguments have failed to sway for quite some time now. If people would be willing to lynch Xalxe because his name is hard to pronounce, I'd be okay with that, too. Dead scum is dead scum.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I don't actually hate an izak lynch, I just prefer a Xalxe one. If izak flipped scum it would basically confirm in my mind that Xalxe is also scum. (See point 3).-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 148, Amrun wrote:RD: With izak, I'm back where I was within him on day 1. I keep flip flopping on him. At first, I found him scummy, but then he does other things that give me town. I'm conflicted. I don't like his most recent interactions with you because he hasn't done any "pushing" of Xalxe and has left it up to others (like me).
I've already said my thoughts on izak. In this case, I will still think Xalxe is scum either way, though that is not always the case.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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No, because I don't think they're particularly related. One of them flipping town means nothing for either one of them. However, a scum flip on one of them slightly indicates the other, but even that isn't very strong.
"Not a lynch I hate" means it's not a lynch I want but not a lynch that bothers me enough to stand up against it (like the Hoopla lynch, for example). It's not the worst lynch, but it's not the best.
It will annoy me to see him lynched over Xalxe, but less so than any of my actual townreads. He COULD be scum.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Because I won't defend you or condemn you. I don't really care. I'm not not going to lie about my opinion of you.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Hiplop's buddyiing to Tierce and Xalxe's buddying to Tierce were totally different. It didn't bother me that he buddied ... It bothered me that he later denied and also had NOTHING to base it off of - no experience at ALL with Town Tierce. How rude to call it laziness when I've been pushing this case and needling him for days. Of course he disappears when it's fucking critical. Of course he does.
And I'm showing absolutely zero interest in switching to izak. I would do so at deadline and not before.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Your case on izak is weaker than my case on Xalxe. Just because you haven't bothered to read it or understand doesn't make it worse.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Explain to me how the Xalxe case is bogus, Oversoul. Have you read it?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Why can't you see the Izak-Xalxe pairing, when you started your poke of him because of his dancing around the Xalxe vote? That makes so little sense.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Hmm.
I actually didn't consider that. I kind of forgot that Xalxe had been that hard on izak, but now that you mention it, I do.
Xalxe doesn't strike me as a hard busser from day 1 as scum.
That's fair.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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How about we just lynch xalxe and skip the lynching izak part.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 214, Oversoul wrote:In post 200, Amrun wrote:Explain to me how the Xalxe case is bogus, Oversoul. Have you read it?
I have read it. I think RD's case against Izak is more prevalent and concrete than yours since you are relying on meta that is known to be broken AND your claims that Xalxe power buddied Tierce seem like an over exaggeration.
If you think my case is related at ALL to meta, then you don't know my case.
If you think my claims are exaggerated re: buddying, then you haven't read the game.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 216, Tierce wrote:@Amrun:
Xalxe wrote:Tierce I am so glad you're town you have no idea.
Now to respond to things.Xalxe wrote:Trust me, not confronting Tierce is probably your best play as scum.
She'sscary.
Xalxe and I both flipped town in the game these are from.
Now can we please debunk this wild theory that Xalxetown wouldn't buddy me?
You also haven't read what I'm saying, even though I specifically asked for your opinion several times and re-quoted things for you in the old thread.
I didn't give a SHIT that he buddied you. I only began to give a shit when he suddenly denied buddying you, despite how BLATANT it was. Why would town Xalxe react that way? He wouldn't.
When I questioned him on it, things only became more and more dicey. That entire exchange is in the archive.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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That makes a lot more sense, Oversoul. I understand that reasoning.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I dug up some of the quotes re: Xalxe buddying from the cache, to refresh some memories...
Amrun wrote: In post 378, Amrun wrote:Those are jokes, but they are buddying, and buddying hard, at that.
The first two imply that your towngame is very strong and that he respects it; this is completely undermined by the fact that he says he's NEVER SEEN YOU AS TOWN!
The third reveals his motivation; he wanted to form an alliance with you, whether a town alliance or a scum-buddying-town alliance, I don't know, but an alliance, and was disappointed when his buddying did not get the results he wanted.
I didn't have a huge issue with this until he revealed that he "wasn't buddying" you and that he had never played with you as town. I thought it was obvious jokey buddying that he would admit to readily and be like "YEAH SO WHAT," but he isn't, and I thought it was based on past good performances by you as town, and it is not.
In post 387, Amrun wrote:
In post 384, Xalxe wrote:Because I've seen her as scum. And she is scary as scum. Why wouldn't she be scary as town?
Why would she? Many players are better at one alignment than another. It's a weird assumption to make, and a weird step to take when you've never seen her as town. Your primary goal as town would have been to figure out her alignment, if she is hard to take down, as you say, whereas it was ACTUALLY to gain a townread from her. That is improved by calling her a little scummy, but that only happened after she did it to you - and you refuse even to throw down a serious vote besides Tierce being the closest thing to your top suspect. If you are truly intimidated by her, you would not want to attract her negative attention as scum. That's pretty cut and dry scum motivation.
For reference, these are only a few of the posts in which I discuss this theory on Xalxe. Afterwards, when you fail completely to comment, I ask you specifically what you thought of all that I had posted, and your reply was a big pile of nothing full of words. "Null with a side of bluh" was featured, I believe.
And then you change to this after I say one sentence referencing it:
Tierce wrote:
In post 1406, Amrun wrote:Isa: I think Hoopla's push on Tierce felt genuine, but this is weaker. I've described before why I think there's no way Tierce and Xalxe are scum together, despite them being my top scumreads. Xalxe's early play was designed to engender a town read from Tierce; he had a lot of weird behavior involving that, which I went into d1. Then, when he hammered, he set Tierce up for a mislynch. There are several other reasons that I noted throughout the day(s) that are more nuanced, if you read my ISO. I think they are the MOST unlikely scumpair in the game.
If it is engendered, he's far more cunning than I've been giving him credit (sorry X <3). What am I failing to see here? Have you ever played with scumXalxe?
It's weird and unnatural.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 242, Shiidaji wrote:Amrun, what's behind your Tierce suspicion? Also Cache P52 is the beginning of your izak townread, so is your read only based off of the commuter claim? I have an opinion on this, but I need to hear from you first.
Here is a quote from the cache about Tierce:
Amrun wrote:
Your posting wasn't all caught up in it being instant night yesterday; you didn't called on it and have to defend for it. I think the likelihood of town forgetting that is lower than the likelihood of scum making a bad attack and using forgetting as an excuse after-the-fact. In general, besides that, I haven't found her very town at all. She isn't doing anything OVERTLY scummy, but I feel like she has some sort of agenda. I don't doubt that her frustration at NS is genuine, but the way she chose to express it struck me as off, for example. It was too careful to avoid talk of his alignment; it subtly pushed his lynch, criticizing him and not calling him town but not scum either.
Nevertheless, I find Xalxe scummier and don't think they are scum together, so at lease one of those scum reads is incorrect.
I also think she's relied too much on things that aren't tells, like AIM conversations. Overall, she just hasn't felt really genuine this game.
As for izak, I'm going to be totally honest and say I don't really remember the entirety of what my town read was based off of. It definitely WAS NOT only his claim, and even what had to do with his claim was not that he was commuter but the psychology behind him picking that in this environment and how he talked about it. Hoopla covers that pretty well.
Other than that, I know there was something else, but can't be arsed to re-read entire cache.
But you don't seem to be reading carefully at all. Where do you get the impression that I'm defending izak? Pushing a counterwagon is NOT defending.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I understand your confusion re: my read on izak, because I'm confused about it myself. He posts a bunch of scummy things followed by one or two townie things that throw me off.
Mostly, though, (I forgot about this earlier), I think Xalxe is scum and they're probably not scum together.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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He's trying to. It's been an open request for quite awhile.
Xalxe has joined new and begun playing new games...
And no, Xalxe didn't claim, iirc.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 260, Hoopla wrote:Just lynch him. Come on.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Jesus God, I can't stand this anymore.
VOTE: izak
I'm sorry, bro. In the end, I've settled on town for you. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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You still like the izak-Amrun pairing when he's just been hammered and said he was town...?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Okay, yeah. But we know the mechanics of this game.
But I get your point.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Tierce totally acceptable counterwagon to Xalxe. That would please me greatly.
HOOPLA
I will vote Tierce if you do.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I don't really feel RD scum here ... well, that is to say, I am conflicted. He doesn't scream town, and he usually does, to me, when he is.
However, in the past, when I've realized he is scum, it has been from weak pushes and voting patterns - and even then, they aren't totally obvious. I would not feel comfortable with my ability to say RD is scum or town without another scumflip to analyze votecounts against.
RD isn't the worst wagon of the day, but I'd rank it a very distant third behind Tierce and Xalxe.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Didn't someone replace Isa? Am I losing my mind?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Holy Christ, I just realized...
I think ONE scum is in {Xalxe, Tierce}.
I think NO MORE THAN ONE scum is in {Shiidaji, Isa/Hiraki}.
That kind of means one of chamber, Hoopla, BBmolla, DeasVail or RD HAS to be scum ... and I have fairly strong townreads on all but RD.
I don't really think that's a good enough reason to vote, but it is kind of startling to realize.-
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In post 281, Hiraki wrote:hey fuck you cunts
i need to finish this wall damnit
scum
kill me
and i will destroy you in end-game.
In post 282, Amrun wrote:You should post what you have done.
In post 283, Hiraki wrote:no
This exchange really bothers me. HEY SCUM, KILL ME OR I'LL DESTROY YOU IN END GAME... and yet he wouldn't share his post, let alone his reads, hence giving scum an excuse NOT to kill him, if he was truly pegging the scumread. It doesn't feel right.
Despite shiidaji's chronic lurking (which I don't think is an alignment tell), my pick for scum out of the sixes is definitely Hiraki.
p-edit: Good job being condescending, chamber. I am pretty sure it's impossible to get where you were pre-crash because I'd have to convince myself I was scum.-
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In post 332, chamber wrote:The more I think about it the more I like tierce/xalxe/X mafia.
I haven't read anything beyond this post because it disgusted me so much. Are we reading the same game?
How do they make sense as a scumteam? THEY DO NOT!
One of them is def. scum, though.-
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In post 337, chamber wrote:I didn't even know xalxe had AIM.
READ THE GAME!! It has been relevant to THIS GAME that Xalxe talks to Tierce on AIM. Urgh.
Xalxe, if scum, tried to engender a townread from Tierce. Then, when that failed, he turned on her. Then, when he hammered hiplop, he tried to set up Tierce as being culpable.
Tierce has pushed for Xalxe's lynch pretty consistently.
In what world do you think that's a likely scumpair?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Tierce: I guess it's less consistent than I thought, upon inspection, but when did you develop your townread on Xalxe?-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I'm expecting your long post today, Hiraki.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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LET'S MASSCLAIM. Come on now.
Tierce first. I wish it could be Xalxe first; alas...-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I don't want to wait 10 years for shiidaji's claim. I don't have any particular suspicion of Shiidaji. I want my scumreads to claim first and be pinned down to a claim.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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THANK GOD
Political Clout, you should claim.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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In post 382, chamber wrote:And on closer reading I feel like a bit of an ass cause I see that is who rainbow asked for >_>.
Yeah.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Okay can we kill political clout now 'cause he got his shit from the qt. thanks.
VOTE: political clout-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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