Open 397: Pick Your Poison! Game Over!

[TheFool]

VOTE: Thomith
Long time, no see!

[TheFool]

lol.
I don't even remember you.

Aww.

In my experience, RQS is a scum move, but Thomith seems more willing than most to actually follow through with his questions.

For the record, my answers are 'whichever I haven't been recently', 'played a few games before this', and 'hoping to post fairly regularly'.

PEDIT: Agreed about T&P.

[TheFool]

Hmm
@TF: What makes you think that RQS is a scum move?

Because it gives off the impression of gathering information without actually doing so. It gives the scum a chance to look busy while not actually actively scumhunting.

Also admittedly because my first experience with it was with me watching a scumbuddy use it and then try to coast with it.

borkjerfkin, what are your thoughts about RQS?

[TheFool]

I'm getting from your tone that the scumbuddy got caught early on? Don't you think that might just be bad play?

Yeah, he did, and yeah, it might be. It's just something I've seen used more by scum than town, and something I've seen lead nowhere more often than somewhere. I know anecdotal evidence isn't worth much but it's what I've got here.

Okay TheFool even if Thomith is following up on his questions do you believe the questions he's askingare questions that would benefit town? Or fluff? Is he actually gathering information that is helpful is it it useless?

I'm not sure it was really leading anywhere, but I got the feeling he was at legitimately looking, and intent is more important than result.

Also why do you care what borkjerfkin's thoughts on RQS are? I'm more interested in why you chose him specifically. In what way does that help you find scum?

I wasn't too sure of his post where he acknowledges that legit discussion is going on but does not actually comment on it.

Glowball's recent posts are pretty townesque.

[TheFool]

Active discussion is good for town to help track down and nail the scum. The sooner we get out of the icebreaker stage and into serious scum hunting the better, especially with a shorter deadline.

I think with so much attention on NS we are losing the big picture here. And scum is taking advantage of that.

I will be looking at ISOs and see what I can find.

I think he is too easy a lynch and as a result the scum are hiding behind it, maybe even joining it or planning to because it is an easy lynch. I tend to be cautious about bandwagons that spring up and suddenly discussion of other players ends and boom we lynch.

I just feel like we are missing things, because he is such the center of attention.

Hmm. This is a pretty serious reaction to someone at L-3. I don't think NS was in any real danger of being lynched.

More importantly, you say scum are using the wagon as a smokescreen, but do you have any suspicions? Saying 'the current wagon is wrong and scum-based' but not following up with any suspicions reads like scum trying to contribute without actually contributing, and potentially winning town points for defending against a townie lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RachMarie

[TheFool]

And lynching the most obv. town person in this game is NOT a good idea.

That is a fairly bold proclamation 4 pages into the game.

Can you explain how Rach is "getting us somewhere"?

I'd like to echo that question.

[TheFool]

And a lot of nulls 5 pages in is to be expected.

LS, her reads list makes me just as uncomfortable.

Why does it make you uncomfortable if it is to be expected?

Explain your case against Rach.

[TheFool]

And once again, still reaction testing back there.

I dunno, sounds kinda like backpedaling.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chrimi

[TheFool]

Whoa, lots of posts.

bork is town, Thomith is probably town, I like Chrimi's 143, BK is scummy, raspberry is possibly scumbuddy, 173 is coaching?, Kassadin's 168 is cool .

Lastsurvivor has good points against T&P, I'd like to see their followup to 144.

Feel better soon glowball.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BK201

[TheFool]

Thom vs. BK is pretty hard to keep up with. I kinda gave up around "You said I said you said that". However, I really like BK's reaction to being L-1. I don't think he's a good lynch right now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: raspberrylicious

BK - odd question, do you have any completed games here?

[TheFool]

Guys, I really don't think BK is a good lynch. Does a scum under fire really get this proactive about scumhunting, including meta research and all?

Don't really understand what's going on with the developing Rasp wagon. Yes, Rasp is coasting but what they've posted isn't really scummy.

Throws her vote on the BK wagon haphazardly, claims it's because 'suspicion made him nervous', which I don't really see.
Also, read her ISO and try to work out why she suspects NS. It seems like it's because he's 'posting short spurts and phrases that don't add much'.

Now put that in the context of this game. :P

So yeah, I like that vote. I could go with T&P as well, LS's case is good.

We could use more content from something like half the game.

PEDIT: ^ A+ post

[TheFool]

Though I would like to see more postings from a number of people in this game, but it maybe a case of want in one hand and well you know in the other unfortunately.

Which to some degree is another reason why BK is a bad lynch.

[TheFool]

@TF: getting town vibes on you but I'd like some elaboration on 296 please.

Sure! When a third of the town is lurking, lynching an active player will lead to even less activity. Then we end up with a lurker-filled endgame and life sucks.

[TheFool]

Eep, sorry, thought I'd posted more recently than that.

im following the wagon

Blunt honesty is a towntell here, I feel.

Jeez bork is town. For like all of page 16.

Reasonable town read on LS as well.

@LS it is a bit hard to get much content when we have so little of it posted to actually analyze. How do you analyze a one word post like eh, for example? But I will do my best.

This rings somewhat hollow 17 pages into the game.

BK is also looking town, and his points (as well as others') on T&P form a good case. I'd be willing to throw my vote that way, but I'd rather have a rasp lynch. The case on T&P is the better case, but my gut read on rasp is strong. Don't think Rach is a good lynch choice, though I think the case has merit.

[TheFool]

You're pretty much not going to get a Rasp lynch today, with what being the only vote and not even attempting to push your wagon.

If you'd rather see T&P lynched than Rach lynched, it makes sense that you'd put your vote on T&P.

Her vote and her suspicions seem to follow the crowd without much deviation. Her top three leads: NS, BK, and Rach, have all been major wagons. In fact, I believe that's every major wagon except for T&P, which in itself is an interesting distinction.

I do not feel a town motivation in her posts; it's a lot of hopping on wagons for frivolous reasons and trying to push things along without getting too involved.

However, I agree with you here. I hadn't realized every other rasp vote had already jumped ship.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Terrence And Phillip

[TheFool]

TheFool, everything scummy about Rasp you have stated above is in her town meta.

It's how she (doesn't?) play.

I disgree, and don't feel there's enough content out there to make that claim anyway.

You're probably referring to the fact that he makes small, infrequent contentless posts as town, and is making the same such posts here as well. That is true, but irrelevant to my case.

There is content in those posts, and it is bad. The reasons given for vote-hops and suspicions are weak, and often counter to the truth. The suspicions themselves align with big wagons at the time, even when the reasons do not (i.e. Rach being scum because she's 'pushing pretty hard', which is pretty wtf in its own right).

None of this is prevalent in previous meta. (also, rasp doesn't actually have any completed town meta, so this argument is a bit disingenuous from the start)

If T&P flips scum, this is absolutely where my vote is going.

[TheFool]

UNVOTE:

[TheFool]

Hey guys, please stop talking about power roles. Especially please stop directing the vig.

Good to see glowball is still town, though.

Not really buying the BK lynch, still think he's town. I don't blame him for wanting to burn through Kass really quick; if I thought I had a shot at pulling a rasp lynch right now, I totally would.

VOTE: RachMarie

[TheFool]

It's parroting everyone else to disagree with the main reason BK's lynch is moving?

Or is it where I jump on a wagon that's largely based around typing a lot without saying much, a trend I was the first to point out?

[TheFool]

Holy crap, now that I have more time to read the game, drmy, how can you be accusing me of sheeping? You realize you've never actually stated any form of case on BK at all, right?

[TheFool]

VOTE: drmyshotgun
This is some serious flailing right here, man.

(I need to do a reread with new flips in mind, but this is a good vote regardless)

[TheFool]

685 is super-telling. He says T&P are 'not confirmed', but later says 'What do you guys think of the last PR? What's that gonna be?', indicating that he thinks tracker is a legitimate claim.

[TheFool]

...

Nobody CC him, that'd be dumb.

If you're an Innocent Child, use your ability. :P

[TheFool]

No, I'll wait for the post. Why did you out yourself?

[TheFool]

Did a brief re-skim of ISOs.

Chrimi: starts off with RVS vote on Rach, makes sure to unvote 'because RVS is over'. Lots of defense of Rach in the early game. Backs off completely, claiming it's a 'reaction test', but then continues defending her throughout the day. Posts 765/769 read scummy.

Thomith: reads pretty legit in his push on Rach, and his 425/426 doesn't sound like it comes from someone who knows Rach is scum. Hammer is interesting, but possibly unintentional. Not much of a tell either way.

Om: not much content there unfortunately, not sure how to feel about his sole contribution being trying to defuse a scum wagon. SK dissapears right around when both Rach and T&P start to get wagoned, so it's hard to get much there.

Kass: like Thom pointed out, Rach's push on him doesn't really read like bussing.

LS: the cop.

glowball: town read.

VOTE: Chrimi

If not him then probably Om.

[TheFool]

Yeah, no reason to hurry.

Unless there's another power role out there arbitrarily choosing not to claim, LS is indisputably town, but yeah, it's weird that Kass went down before him. I have trouble buying that it was a threat kill though, since it's Kass.

Still standing by my previous thoughts that it's either Chrimi or Om, probably Chrimi.

[TheFool]

Oh sorry, forgot about questions.

First vote was because of the way he tried to move away from responsibility for his Rach defense by calling it 'raction testing'. Not a strong tell at the time, but it was an early-game vote.

Second vote was because it had become a stronger tell with Rach's scum-flip, combined with the fact that he continued soft-defending Rach throughout the game, even after claiming it was a reaction test.

Some littler stuff too, like denouncing a town read in 421, his fake-sounding 'oh my look at that'esque posts in 765/822, his general attempts to keep the town's reads on Kass/Rasp as neutral as possible.

Chrimi, what did you see in 352?

[TheFool]

TheFool: I saw LS's case and I saw how them and Rach were linked.

Not sure I understand, you still thought Rach was town at that point. Why would a link between the two make you vote T&P?

[TheFool]

You thought you had two-thirds of the scumteam pegged, and on a day where we wagoned both of them but ended up lynching town, you decided to stay quiet?

Also, posts 424/427 don't really read "secretly thinks she's scum".

[TheFool]

Also, what was the connection between T&P and Rach?

[TheFool]

I want to hear more from The Fool, who do you think is scum like if you had to place a vote now where would you?

Chrimi, for previously stated reasons, plus the 'what if it's the Fool' thing as you pointed out.

Honestly, I'm feeling bold.

VOTE: Chrimi

[TheFool]

Whoa, that's bold.

Posting without quickhammering, which I guess makes me the tie-breaker...

Going to have to do some re-reading.

PEDIT: eek

[TheFool]

Presumably that means glowball-scum.

Honestly, I can't feel too bad about this. You played a good game, glowball.

[TheFool]

Should've unvoted in 920, Om, 919 should indicate town-Fool to you.

glowball, why Kass over LS?

[TheFool]

Really I knew LastSurvivor thought I was town and that could only work in my favor. When Kass soft claimed and then accused me he had to die.

Ah, makes sense. Get rid of the loose cannon first.

Especially when you consider that among all of the people who soft claimed vanilla. If I was town I would have been so pissed at you guys. You basically killed yourselves by constantly talking about PRs it was easy to tell who was just a townie.

I was probably guilty of it myself at some point, but seriously, town in this game needed to learn that telling the vig who to shoot makes it more obvious that you're not the vig.