Open 444: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem! OVER, MVPs!

rapidcanyon · Post Post #150 (isolation #0) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:08 am

In post 144, D3f3nd3r wrote:Rapidcanyon replaces Scruffy.

Game is going very slowly; deadline is in five days.

All right, this sounds fun! I'll post when I am all caught up.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #161 (isolation #1) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:37 am

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

Here are my reads so far based on the 1st 3 pages. I am currently reading the rest:

1) JohnnyFarrar

- First scummy post of the day comes from Johnny. Post 43. He asks why Eidolon was "pushing so hard" on 2b1s. I barely saw any pushing other than say "let's policy lynch whoever calls for policy-lynches." I am prett sure she was joking. Then he asks 2b1s how often he sees policy lynches go through. Pointless question. How does this get him any closer to ascertaining who is scum and who isn't? And then, it gets even scummier. He tells Klick on why town reads should be given and then assures Klick that his townread was a good one. Eidolon had already explained this and Johnny is just regurgitating what she said while complimenting Klick about his townread. He is trying to appease basically everyone involved. He then asks everyone who played less than 3 non-newbie games to let him know. Why? 3 games is pretty high. I haven't completed 3 games but I have a pretty good hang of the game mechanics and such.

Don't agree with Johnny's 46 either. There was nothing really suspicious about answering RQS questions and getting clarification. Eidolon seemed to be trying to generate discussion. Couple that with my townread on Eidolon based on her later posts and I really don't like this one. The reasoning is just too weak. I will concede the point on the first to post after PMs being sent out because I have no idea what was going on regarding the PMs. But the other points are really stretching. Disagree with 71 too. I am town and read the setup. His reasoning for thinking Melee is town is really bad. Seems like the designated scum who is going to defend Melee while the others attack him.

2) Sweezy *

- Post 61, "leans" towards Shaded which is somewhat convenient because Klick expressed suspicion on him as did a couple of other people. No reason given for "leaning" towards him and ambiguous language as well trying to not be too against Shaded.

3) 2birds1stone

- Don't like his policy-lynch proposal and his 51 came off as really abrasive. Could it be scum-motivated? He seems to really not like the fact that ShadedMelee called out Johnny on defending him. 63 actually gives me a townread on 2b1s though. He was aggressive which is generally a towntell but I have trouble connecting with his reasoning. I am conflicted here. He already assumes that Scruffy (me) is scum and Shaded is defending Scruffy because he is Scruffy's buddy. It really seemed like hasty townie jumping to conclusions than scum. 67, 1b2s becomes scummier (lynch all lurkers). Whatever hapenned to replacing lurkers with more active players? If Scruffy had been lynched, it would have been pretty bad for town because he wouldn't even have had a clue who to take down with him.

4) ShadedMelee

- Like ShadedMelee's post 50. Johnny's defense of Scruffy/me as well as 2b1s didn't make sense. Also, 2b1s was said to be town by other people so it makes sense for scum to defend him. I don't why Johnny defended me though. Scruffy was inactive and a good mislynch target who is also likely to shoot wrong.

5) Eidolon - Why do you think 2b1s's reaction was "good." How specifically did you come to that conclusion? Why do you think he handled the pressure "great?"

6) Venrob *
7) Name User
8) yabbaguy
9) JigglymenceP2
10) Klick
11) Whiskers
12) Rapidcanyon - I am town

rapidcanyon · Post Post #163 (isolation #2) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:44 am

Scruffy.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #165 (isolation #3) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:54 am

I copy-pasted the mod's list and initially tried to re-arrange with town/null/scum reads but realized that many were blank because I don't yet have a read on them. I then re-arranged to have the blank ones at the bottom. To clarify, the order on the list doesn't say anything about degree of scumminess. It was semi-random.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #166 (isolation #4) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:06 am

Mostly agree with Eidolon's 76. I honestly didn't get why Whisker's was dismantling 1b2s's case. It didn't get him anywhere. I disagree with voting NameUser because I had the same question he did: how is it a townslip (regarding Melee). Also, I want too see Johnny explain where Eidolon was soft-pushing for a lynch. If you ask me, Eidolon has been really aggressive in generating activity (her usual towntell so I get a townread on her so far).

Totally like Yabba's 83. He points out that Johnny is scummy. Considering that I came to the same conclusion independently, I am liking Yabba right now. I don't really get the thing about "robotic" approach though. I found Johnny suspicious for different reasons. Johnny's 84, he minimizes Yabba's suspicion to "uneasiness." Yabba's unvote didn't make sense to me though.

Jigglymence - Answering RQS questions on page 4. My next scumread after Johnny. Doesn't help that they didn't give any opinions as to who is scum.

The exchange between Yabba and Johnny on 96, 97, 98 serves to increase my suspicion on Johnny. Like Eidolon's 101 and 104 as well. I really hope Eidolon is town or else she is playing me really,

really

badly. I still don't agree with her that Johnny "seems" townish. My read on Eidolon is getting more confused and murkier with her 114. A lot of "seems slightly townish" and other ambiguous reads. Back to town when she acccuses Whiskers in 126. I agree that Whisker's playstyle is markedly different from his playstyle in Chosen Mafia where he was town. Nothing he did here really moved the game forward but in Chosen Mafia, he was much more helpful in his analysis.

Eidolon, why in 135, you say slightly scum on Yabba but not Johnny. I get you don't want to OMGUS but Johnny's case on you is legitimately pointless and his behavior has been scummy as well. The only thing about Yabba I didn't understand is why he let go of Johnny so easily.

Johnny's 145, please elaborate on which wagon you were referring to as a "BS wagon."

Regarding Eidolon's 153, again agree. I am glad I got a heavy townread on you for once. Yes, Yabba did throw out the case against Johnny too easily. I liked that he suspected Johnny but I have no idea what he was going on about with the "cookie-cutter" approach. Then he ditches it as soon as 2b1s says so. Also, if you can point out to me in concise terms what scruffy did that was scummy, I'll respond but it really shouldn't be that much of a factor though. I posted a ton. Much, much more than Scruffy. Analyzing MY behavior would be a better way to go especially since you can "read me like a book."

And this concludes my read. I'd support wagoning Johnny or as a second option Jigglymence.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #168 (isolation #5) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:23 am

5) Eidolon - strongly town
6) Name User - town-ish
7) yabbaguy - conflicted. Some things seem town to me, others seem scummy.
8) Whiskers - scummy
9) JigglymenceP2 - strong scum read

These are explained in my previous post.

10) Venrob * - no read yet, post more
11) Klick - no read yet.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #169 (isolation #6) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:28 am

LOL. Out of curiosity, I went back to check what it was the Scruffy did that was SO scummy as to make him a hot target for a lynch. He made two posts. Here is what he said:

In post 11, ScruffyThe1 wrote:Good afternoon, amigos.

Also, Bahamut is the best Eidolon. Just sayin'.

In post 20, ScruffyThe1 wrote:
Vote: Sweezy

Let's generate some discussion, people.

Eidolon, are you seriously considering lynching me based on those posts?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #171 (isolation #7) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:33 am

I can't get a read on you. You haven't done anything that caught my eye as scummy but you haven't done anything that I immediately perceived to be town either. It will change of course as the game goes on.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #173 (isolation #8) » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:43 am

I am conflicted on 2b1s, as I mentioned in 161, he did some scummy things but some town-ish things.

Looking at Sweezy's ISO, he leans towards Shaded but votes Johnny. I am thinking Sweezy could be town.

Shaded, I don't like 30, and 48. I want more posts from him.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #191 (isolation #9) » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:15 am

I must be missing something. What exactly is the case on Shaded?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #194 (isolation #10) » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:33 am

Yeah, 52, he does seem to be trying to discredit 2b1s. I actually agree with you. The way he was trying to say that 2b1s is ordering the town about seems to me that he was trying to build resentment among the town so that town goes "hey, who is Scruffy to tell us what to do?" This could potentially create rifts between the townies making town more likely to dislike 2b1s.

With that said, why can't Johnny and ShadedMelee both be scum? I am actually getting scumreads off of both of them though stronger on Johnny for not calling out 2b1s when he bandwagoned.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #195 (isolation #11) » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:33 am

Edit:

In post 194, rapidcanyon wrote:Yeah, 52, he does seem to be trying to discredit 2b1s. I actually agree with you. The way he was trying to say that 2b1s is ordering the town about seems to me that he was trying to build resentment among the town so that town goes "hey, who is
2b1s
to tell us what to do?" This could potentially create rifts between the townies making town more likely to dislike 2b1s.

With that said, why can't Johnny and ShadedMelee both be scum? I am actually getting scumreads off of both of them though stronger on Johnny for not calling out 2b1s when he bandwagoned.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #200 (isolation #12) » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:34 pm

She said "wagon" which she later clarified wasn't meant for pressure, not a lynch so I dropped the issue. She said it 153.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #217 (isolation #13) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:29 am

Okay, just got caught up. Regarding Johnny's 212, I disagree that it is a towntell to not know the setup so I am completely disregarding arguments based on that.

Johnny, what was the solid towntell that Eidolon gave you?

Eidolon, comparing Johnny and Shaded, why is the case on Shaded stronger than the one on Johnny?

Regarding the response to your case, I am really conflicted. It was good, but almost a bit too smooth, if you know what I mean. It is a response that initially made me want to unvote but the more I think about it, the more it didn't make sense to me.

1) You say you made a case against Eidolon to see if any scum would bandwagon.

2) 2b1s bandwagoned but you didn't call him out as scum.

3) You called him out as scum after he voted you.

4) When asked about why you didn't call him out as scum earlier, you say that you were hoping he would vote you (unless I read it wrong).

5) You continue pushing Eidolon despite the fact that your case was BS.

6) When asked about it, you say that you were pushing Eidolon hoping for a tell from her.

7) When she presses you on it, you claim that you got a town-read on her.

You have answers to every question, Johnny. But the point is that you never really tell us the purpose of your actions until you are pushed on them. Then you give us answers. This entire thing seems to me like you are making stuff up as we go along. That is the prime reason I suspect you.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #222 (isolation #14) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:50 am

I am leaning town on Klick. I don't know if it is a good idea to bandwagon with people you think are town as opposed to going with your own reads. But I didn't do it before and that didn't work out well for me, so I dunno. I'd like to see more content from ShadedMelee. Johnny seemed intent on defending Shaded that is another thing to consider.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #226 (isolation #15) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:14 pm

I am really unsure on Johnny. I can see town motivation for asking who needs to be vengekilled but I can also see WIFOM from scum. I wouldn't put it past scum bussing each other since daytalk is allowed so it is possible that Eido is scum bussing Johnny but I get a town read on Eidolon overall. Whiskers point about Eido making a case against Johnny but voting Shaded is legit, though. I'd like to hear more from Eido.

Another person I really want to hear from is RainbowDash. I skimmed through the last couple of games with this setup - Rainbowdash was town and her meta was significantly different. She was more questioning and tried very hard to probe into each player and figure out whether they are scum and constantly kept changing her reads. I see her current playstyle to be significantly different from her playstyle there. I don't remember which game it was since there were two but I'll pull up links if needed.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #229 (isolation #16) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:16 pm

I'll make a more detailed post now or tomorrow evening depending on how long it will take me to finish. Don't snap lynch anybody - it is a pretty terrible idea. I am going to check back on RBD's meta to see if she suggested snap-lynching as town. The case on Yabba has some merit. But, RBD is wrong about me, so it is a very good possibility she is wrong about Yabba as well - another reason I don't want to quicklynch before considering all the possibilities. Also, if part of the reason for lynching Yabba is

because

he wanted to slow the game down, that is even more reason to disagree. We need to get as much analysis of behavior as possible and lynch the most likely scum. Even if we lynch town, we want to townie to make an informed decision. For instance, if I were lynched, I would much prefer it to be close to deadline as opposed to a snap-lynch since it would give me a much better way to tell who is likely scum and to take them down. Whoever is lynched will likely feel the same way, so no matter who is lynched, we want them to make an informed decision and quicklynching them will not serve that purpose and will only serve to confuse them.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #233 (isolation #17) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:43 pm

Okay, she was town in 384 and wanted a quicklynch because it is apparently more difficult for scum to get a good kill. She was also wrong about her scumreads and the people she was pushing a quicklynch on were town. I think I am sufficiently convinced that RBD's behavior is not a scumtell - she does this as town. It is however a terrible idea.

- RBD, you think I am scum, why? I'd like you to elaborate on why you think so.

- I am against a snap wagon and won't be supporting one. Looking through RBD's reasoning for a snap-lynch:

"

1) In a situation outside of X=players alive - (scum alive + 2)... its perfectly acceptable and unless you have a justifiable town read optimal to hammer anypony who hits L-1. Killing scum day vig before they have used both shots gives us extra lynches, and forcing them to kill before we come near a lynch removes the amount of information they have pretaining to the optimum kill.
2) If scum have held a shot, D3 is lylo less the vig gets hit.

"

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lect=16488

The prime focus of it is that if we by chance lynch the scum dayvig before they use both shots, it gives us extra lynches. But that is based entirely on whether we hit the scum dayvig. If we snap-lynch town and vengekill another townie, it puts us in a weak position. We can't lynch HOPING that we hit the scum dayvig. We have to ascertain who it could be and analyze behaviors of various players in order to determine that. Racing against time isn't going to help us do this.

Besides, Eidolon has been called town by everyone in the game. If Yabba is the scum-dayvig, a 1 in 12 chance, he will just kill her. Also, as I mentioned, we need the lynchee to have as good a read on every player in the game as possible, this can only happen with slow deliberation.

@ Whiskers, thanks for the links.

I'll post more based on those.

@ Eidolon, what is your opinion on these "snap-lynches?"

rapidcanyon · Post Post #235 (isolation #18) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:54 pm

The thing that makes me uncertain about Yabba is that he essentially calls you "poison." Believe it or not, if I were scum, I wouldn't insult someone who was universally considered to be town and turn them against me. It just doesn't make sense. My initial reaction upon seeing that was "Yabba is town." He is trying to wrest control of the day phase from you but he is doing it in such an obvious and transparent manner that I doubt scum would do. Why support a Yabba lynch? What is your reasoning?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #237 (isolation #19) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:03 pm

I don't know if I get a town-read on RBD at all. Maybe my perspective is biased because she thinks I am scum. Looking back, she did propose a similar strategy when she was town so it is not a scumtell but then, if she were scum, she might be proposing it to keep in line with her town-meta. I can't tell on RBD right now although the fact that she is wrong about me makes me less inclined to follow her reads.

What "determination" and "leadership" are you talking about?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #239 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:17 pm

Okay, 39, he pretty much says what RBD is proposing: "the absolute panic from the scum if the 2X gets run up." He votes scruffy and responds to what 1b2s said about him. The next post is a catching up post. 83, he FOSses Johnny for the cookie-cutter approach that I mentioned earlier makes no sense to me. In 106, he votes Johnny, and in 110, he unvotes. 138 is a response to Eidolon's accusation. 174, he can interchangeably vote both Johnny or NameUser. But he had previously unvoted Johnny. This post came after my entrance into the game where I voted Johnny, so it is somewhat opportunistic.

I agree that he is not scumhunting and is pushing easy wagons, made a small case against Johnny and threw it away, so yeah, you have me convinced.

UNVOTE: Johnny
VOTE: Yabbaguy

rapidcanyon · Post Post #242 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:32 pm

I am convinced by your case on Yabba but I am not convinced RBD is town. She makes assertions like

"Whiskers-scum essentially confirms me as town, would like to wagon for that chance but isnt a top scum read
RC-scum heavily suggests one of JF and SM as scum. I would almost snap lynch either of RC or SM if the other flipped scum"

neither of which make logical sense. Nothing about whiskers would confirm her as town and nothing about Johnny or Shaded being scum suggests me as scum. I have a feeling she is trying to set up fake-associations between players to support her snap-lynch idea to get people to vote without thinking.

"I almost want to just say me+Klick+Eido alliance and just run this game in hopes of a couple scum flips give us a clear addition to our pool."

Wouldn't be a bad idea if we think that RBD is town but I don't get a town-read from her. I get a town-read from Eidolon and I am leaning town on Klick. It seems to me a convenient way to insert herself among players others think are town. She is also like the 5th player I think who called you town after me, Johnny, Whiskers, and someone else.

I don't think the reasoning for a quick lynch is a good one in this game. In the bluesteel game you were referring to, mafia shot at the beginning of the day phase and later won the game. Quicklynches are bad. Mafia WILL kill townies. Deal with it. Trying to lynch someone before they can shoot is a ridiculous strategy and if we are on course for a mislynch, they will obviously save their shots for the next day.

Pedit: yeah, I agree.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #243 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:38 pm

Also, if I have to compare catching-up posts, mine was way better. I give reads on every player and give detailed reasoning for each of them. Nothing about RBD's post struck me as awe-inspiring.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #245 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:48 pm

That is part of what I was thinking. She knew a Yabba wagon would get support from you, and since everyone thinks you are town, securing your support is critical and she might have figured people will sheep you if you tell them to (like I just did). She saw the latent support to lynch Yabba and mobilized it. Of course, if Yabba is scum and she town, this is good. If it is the other way around, it is bad.

I could actually see RBD on a team with Yabba. Towncred for bussing. RBD-Johnny isn't out of the question either since she is tying two other people to Johnny in case he flips scum yet she basically derailed a Johnny wagon to start another one.

Regarding liking the Yabba wagon more, why Yabba as opposed to Johnny? I mean, both cases are equally good.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #248 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:58 pm

Johnny, case on you, short summary: I feel like you are making things up as we go along. You make a case against Eidolon, you push it. Once called out on it, you discard it and call it a reaction test, but only after being called out on it. You are not pro-actively changing directions. You wait for someone to say "Johnny, your case sucks." THEN, you turn around and say "Yes, but it is a reaction test." Then you wait for someone to ask you "So, what did you get out of it, Johnny?" THEN, you say "I was waiting to see scum bandwagon." Then we ask, "So, why didn't you vote 2b1s when he wagoned, Johnny?" Then you say "I wanted to see if he is noob-scum or just noob, his vote on me convinced me that he is scum." Then you grudgingly give a town read on Eidolon. When whiskers asks why you got said read, you admit that makes you feel dumb. You are not doing stuff pro-actively. You are waiting for people to push you and then you give answers as if you had a cool plan all along.

Also, you told me that if you had already given us the purpose of your reaction test, then it would fail. But that is not what I was asking. I was saying, why not stop the reaction test after you got your reactions and tell us about them as opposed to waiting for people to push you on it and then giving it up.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #251 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:20 pm

Yeah... I would love to see Johnny's meta. I would have been convinced Johnny was town if he did what he did without being prodded. That would have legitimately come off as scumhunting.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #257 (isolation #26) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:45 pm

@ RBD, I agree that you seem to be a feared player by scum. Both of the games I've seen with you in it, you were first choice for a kill.

I don't agree with the strategy though. You lynched Near in one game and were wrong about it. Being wrong and the townies vengekilling another townie can be devastating. It makes it more likely for a townie to vengekill another townie if the wagon on them is based on a quickie rather than on solid reasons which they can evaluate for validity. Let's take an example - if someone pushed for a quicklynch on me, I would likely just pick the instigator for a vengekill but if it was a deadline lynch, slow and methodical, I would have plenty of time to develop reads based on who is most likely scum. Same goes for any player. Let's say we quicklynched you at the beginning of the game, who would you have picked to vengekill? You wouldn't have formulated your thoughts on who is scum until later in the game. This is one reason why quicklynches are bad.

Continuing on, when vengekills are not an issue, quicklynches are still bad because we are rushing a lynch on someone who may or may not be scum. Even if we hit right, we are still mislynching. In any mafia game, scum will have a factional kill and town needs to try and win through lynches which are town-sided kills. Playing a suboptimal game by quicklynching hoping to reduce the effect of scum-sided kills leaves too much up to chance. A much better strategy is to accept that scum will kill townies and focus our efforts on finding those scum and accurately lynching them. Accuracy is better than speed.

The vengekill is mentioned in the town PM but it is there for all to see. I read every role PM in the OP and expect everyone to do the same. You are actually suggesting that Whiskers didn't know that a vengekill was available which suggests that whiskers didn't read the OP. Whiskers doesn't come across to me as that kind of person. He is meticulous and detailed. I would expect him to read the OP regardless of affiliation.

I am not lumping JF/SM together. I pointed out that I was suspicious of JF. Eidolon convinced me that SM was suspicious as well. I was not entirely certain about SM due to low posts although a certain tactic stuck out to me since I had seen it used by scum before. I was suspicious of both, but more of JF. I explained the reasoning behind this. Townies can have two suspiciouns, one more than the other, and one who they would settle as a deadline lynch. That doesn't indicate that the person with the suspicioun is scum as well as the player's second choice.

I replaced into the slot and my first suspicion was Johnny. I don't even remember if Johnny voted for my slot at all. My entire case against him was based on the BS case on Eidolon and non proactiveness although I'll have to check his meta and re-evaluate if necessary.

Regardless, it is a good strategy to analyze a wagon on a known townie. If you replace in and there is a wagon on you and you know you are town, it is quite likely that a few scum bandwagoned onto the wagon. You try and figure out who had malicious motivations and poor reasoning for bandwagoning and pin them as mafia. It is a similar strategy to analyzing mislynches.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #261 (isolation #27) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:16 pm

In post 259, Eidolon wrote:

any good town player should not vengekill based on the push alone. it should be on who got on the wagon for scummy motives. We have to trust that the people we lynch are 1. scum. 2. if town, will make the valuable decisions based on who was on/off the wagon and why.

This is exactly what I am getting at. How do they KNOW who scum is if they are quicklynched? The "valuable decisions" only come from a slow well-thought out lynch, right? How do you differentiate between a bad quickvote and a good quickvote?

I am reluctant to quicklynch anyone, not just Yabba. I am fairly confident that he is scum after seeing his ISO. I am not 100% on it. I want to give him the opportunity to change my mind - if he can. Remember Whiskers in Chosen mafia? You were so convinced he was scum, you wouldn't hear him out. I like the compromise you proposed in 260. Works for me.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #262 (isolation #28) » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:20 pm

Okay, I am seriously addicted to mafia here. I need someone to tell me to log off for a while and prepare for a midterm because at this rate, I am going to keep procrastinating and playing mafia with my books in front of me. Also, eidolon, isn't it 6AM in the east coast? Unless I missed something, you were playing through the night.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #269 (isolation #29) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:47 am

I agree that you have played this setup before, but you are going about it the wrong way. I pointed out that scum will kill townies, this is part of the game. On our end, the best we can do is analyze behaviors and take our best shot at lynching scum. Playing sub-optimally and hastily hoping to outrun the mafia kill hardly puts us in a better position since all their choices of kills are far more clearer than our choices of lynches. For instance, if we are about to quicklynch someone, they can just kill Eidolon.

You are completely missing my point. Acting fast is a liability to town since we have less time to analyze behaviors. Playing a slow analytical game does not equate to showing fear. I have been clear that I do not want a quicklynch on Yabba or anyone else. I have my vote on him and am waiting for him to explain his behavior to see whether or not he can convince me that he is town. Voting for someone does not mean approving a quicklynch. I have already said that I didn't want one. There is no contradiction in my behavior.

I too am torn on switching the wagon to you. So, far you have been fabricating information and pointing out non-existent contradictions. The one thing that is stopping me though is that Yabba is putting no effort into this game. He says he will be back later but never shows up. Let's see what he says and I'll decide whether to unvote or not.

I am not opposed to lynching RBD today. A lot of what she says is scummy. For instance, she tries to convince me that I am scum. She uses phrases like "you are scum because" which make no sense. My reasoning for asking her why she thinks I am scum is to determine whether her accusations are valid and coming from a logical place and defend her accusations. On that note, a townie would try and defend those accusations by phrasing sentences as "I think you are scum because" etc. This small slip makes me feel like RBD is trying to convince me that I am scum as opposed to defending her logic. As for her actual, responses, they are fabricated. I'll post more when my internet is not stalling but we should lynch either Yabba or RBD today.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #270 (isolation #30) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:11 pm

Unvote Yabbaguy

I would still like Yabba to explain his behavior. His lurking and lack of responses is putting me off. I'd be much more comfortable lynching RBD today. I'll make a case later. My internet is acting up for some reason and I can't type the long posts.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #272 (isolation #31) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:46 pm

Most scumslips are small. Your choice of words indicate that you are doing something that isn't logical. Why would you tell me why I am scum? Even if I

was

scum, I wouldn't admit it. From a town perspective, it doesn't add up. Explaining why you

think

I am scum however is a defense of yourself and that your arguments are logically valid. The second indicates townie-behavior. The first indicates scum behavior due to irrationality.

I didn't "attack" anyone for voting for scruffy. I wanted Eidolon to clarify whether she was intending to lynch me even after the replacement happenned. She is one of my town-reads and I don't intend to push a lynch on her. So, your point is invalid. Anyone else you are referring to?

I gave detailed justification for why quicklynching is bad. I have been abundantly clear that my vote for Yabba is not for a quicklynch. I even explicitly clarified to Eidolon that I do not support a Yabba quicklynch. My vote is on Yabba because I suspect him. Eidolon and I came to an understanding that we are not going to push a Yabba lynch until he has had his say. Categorizing it as a "quicklynch" wagon is a misrepresentation. Some people were in it for a quicklynch, others were not. Others (like Eidolon initially were in for a quicklynch but changed my mind upon my insistence to wait for Yabba's response and allow him to convince us that he is town - is he is able to. The fact that you paint it as a contradiction is clearly misleading.

You are my first pick for scum right now. I am certain enough that you are lying that I am willing to take the chance of getting venged if you are town. I am convinced that it is small enough. Your behavior just screams scum from every angle. You come into the game and you FOS the person who is suspicious of everyone's town read. You know that Yabba has come out extremely strongly against Eidolon going so far as to call her "poison." You know that if you throw bait on yabba, Eidolon will bite and lead a lynch on him. You are being highly opportunistic.

@ Eidolon, Yabba is a bad lynch. RBD specifically threw him out there as an option hoping he might kill you.

I would suggest everyone choose between me and RBD as to who they would like to be lynched.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #273 (isolation #32) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:50 pm

VOTE: Rainbowdash

I'll post a full ISO later after a re-read in a couple of hours. Gotta run to class right now. Again, Yabba is a bad lynch. Choosing between me and RBD makes much more sense although I would prefer to straight-up lynch RBD since that gives us a scummy without a townie mislynch.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #274 (isolation #33) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:51 pm

Did you see her response? She FOSses me but is afraid to vote me. She is honsetly

scared

as to what might happen. She wants a lynch of a player who suspects Eidolon as opposed to her. Opportunism to the max.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #275 (isolation #34) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:56 pm

I have a totally awesome case on her. Will be up in a couple hours.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #279 (isolation #35) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:27 pm

The case against Rainbowdash

1) Rainbowdash fabricating scumtells

Let's start with 228.

She starts makes connections between players.

RC-scum heavily suggests one of JF and SM as scum. I would almost snap lynch either of RC or SM if the other flipped scum

She says that she would snap-lynch the other if one of me or Shaded flips scum. Now, there can be town-motivation or scum motivation behind making associative tells like this one. Which is it, here?

To answer that, let's look at the reason she gives for making the accusation. This is the reasoning she gives in 256:

Some of your posts seem to assume SM is scum for calling others odd and you always seem to lump JF/SM together with JF being the lynch preference.

It is completely possible to have two scumreads with one being the lynch preference and another being someone you can be convinced to lynch or will lynch at deadline. Scum may sometimes do this but that by itself is not a reason to snap-lynch one player if the other flips scum. More important than the poor reasoning is that she needs to be pushed in order to out that reasoning. A townie would give the reasoning and go after the player they think is scum.

Scum of course would be more hesitant. In her case, she needed to be pushed. I needed to ask her "RBD, give me the reasons why you think I am scum." Then, she responds and spits out weak reasoning that could just as well have applied to anyone. Eidolon wanted to lynch Johnny or Shaded with Shaded as her preference. Does that make Eido scum? No, it means that she suspects those two players and prefers to lynch one over the other. RBD picked up on something that both town and scum do and tried to portray it as a scumtell. Fabricating scumtells is a scumtell by itself - and one of my favorite ones.

Another BS post was that I was trying to discredit the pressure wagon on my predecessor. Basically, what she is saying is that I clarified with Eidolon whether she was planning to lynch me based on a mere couple of posts from Scruffy which Eido said was merely a pressure wagon and not for a lynch. I was under the impression that Scruffy had acted like Scummy McScum and I was wondering what I earth he did to make Eidolon push a lynch (what I thought it was at that time) on me. Then, I look back and see - two posts. Basically nothing. Surprised, I asked her if she was pushing a lynch based on that!

Now, how does RBd interpret it? She claims I am "discrediting" Eidolon and accusing her. No, if I wanted to accuse her, I would do it directly. I have done so in the past. I have no problem yelling "you are scum" in her face just like I am doing with RBD right now if I felt that Eido was scum. To date, I've never discredited Eidolon's reads. I always respect them so much, it can be unsettling. Anyways, my point was valid. Scruffy didn't deserve to be lynched based on his couple of posts.

2) The Quicklynching theory and who supports it

[Rapidcanyon]... is trying to argue that a quicklynch is bad and he doesnt want one, but is sitting on the L-2 wagon that has just shown up in the last 12 hours.

She fabricates false contradictions. I explicitly pointed out that I voted Yabba based on Eidolon's case that he wasn't really contributing anything. Eidolon pushed me to vote and as she is one of my townreads, I was inclined to look through Yabba's ISO to see whether he was worthy of a vote. I did, and I found out she was right. I then voted for him. I also said that I am not convinced RBD is town. At that point, Yabba was a bigger scumread than RBD.

Now, what does RBD do? She says "you are voting on a quicklynch wagon even though you don't want one." (paraphrased).

How is the wagon a "quicklynch wagon?" Because she named it as such? Just because she voted to quicklynch doesn't mean everybody else did too. post 238, Eidolon convinces me that Yabba is scum. Post 239, I check his ISO and vote. This has nothing to do with RBD's posts. I wasn't convinced that RBD was even town at that point but Yabba seemed scummier. My vote was the third vote on the wagon making this statement a lie:

You complain about the theory on quicklynching that I am pushing while [lie#1]
immediately following my vote
[/lie#1] and [lie#2]
putting Yabba at L-2.
[/lie#2]

The no quicklynch thing is a clear contradiction unless you are trying to argue that being a part of a quickynching wagon while not supporting a quicklynch means you WERENT part of a quicklynch or something.

Why is it a quicklynch wagon? Because you said so? I say it is not a quicklynch wagon. You merely define it as a quicklynch wagon and say that I am part of it ignoring the fact that I voted Yabba because Eido convinced me to and I pushed for her to wait until Yabba comes online. Well, under my new definition, this is not a quicklynch wagon making RBD's argument a loaded one. See how easy that was? The point I am trying to make is that a wagon is not a "quicklynch" wagon because RBD defined it as such.

Again, she says:

You cant say that though. If you are part of something, whether its your intention to be or not you are part of it. If you are part of a wagon going through and complain about quicklynching, its hypocritical even if you are not voting with that intention.

Again, same response. She defined it as a quicklynch wagon. I however have absolutely no intention of having the wagon go quickly. I define the wagon as a regular wagon.

In summary, her logic just doesn't make sense overall. She asks loaded questions and makes assumptions and FOSses players based on those (wrong) assumptions.

3) Motivation for choosing Yabba

Eidolon was trying to get a Yabba wagon off the ground but gave up. RBD knew that there was latent suspicion on Yabba and the person who most people called town (Eidolon) would respond positively to her FOS on Yabba. This worked since Eidolon practically loved her. But I don't see RBD's case as all that great. It was mediocre at best, maybe had a little merit. But Yabba had previously insulted Eidolon pretty harshly and this naturally turned her against him. She also suspected that Yabba's insults were because he was caught scum. RBD knew that she would like the opportunity to go after him. So, she says "quicklynch Yabba" which gets her the support of the most obvious townie in the game which trickles down to support from the others as well. She chooses an easy target, someone who hasn't been very active and who a prominent townie would love to see go down.

RBD just keeps getting scummier and scummier. Notice how she backs off when I push a lynch on her and say it is either her or me? She actually goes so far as to call me town. Lol. This is just too good. She reacted exactly the way I would expect scum to react.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #280 (isolation #36) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:37 pm

Regarding whisker's post. I'll accept the last bit and not ask to be lynched. I am going on a straight collision course with my biggest scumread. It is stronger than ever as opposed to my scumread on Johnny for instance which wasn't as strong. RBD didn't directly appeal to Eidolon. As I mentioned in my last post, there is scum motivation to attack a player that a townie wanted lynched but couldn't get a wagon going. Regarding quicklynching, sure scum can make better kills the more we analyze but don't you already think they have what they need - kill the biggest townreads?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #282 (isolation #37) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting whiskers:

Let's start here, then: seeing links between players, and pointing them out, is not scummy, nor a scumtell.

By itself, no. It was background information to my case on her. You quoted that bit and said it was not a scumtell. You can't be serious, whiskers. I wasn't accusing her of being scum merely for making a connection. I assert that she made a connection, I prove it, and then I say that it could be motivated by town or scum. I then proceed to explain why supporting evidence makes it scum-motivated. I mean, you completely take it out of context and actually agree with me.

She says that she would snap-lynch the other if one of me or Shaded flips scum. Now, there can be town-motivation or scum motivation behind making associative tells like this one. Which is it, here?

But look, she's not pushing for a lynch on either of you. She's saying, "Here is a link I see." If she were strongly convinced that one of you was scum (which would therefore lead her to ANOTHER scum, in her mind), she'd be attacking you.

Your response is to a rhetorical question which I answered next. Again, you are attacking background information.

Whiskers:

Right... The point here is that you group SM and JF together, but always want to lynch JF. In other words, "you're bussing SM," keeping him as a safe second lynch to JF. After a JF lynch, an SM lynch will never go through, because you're tying the two together; BOTH scum."

Me:

It is completely possible to have two scumreads with one being the lynch preference and another being someone you can be convinced to lynch or will lynch at deadline. Scum may sometimes do this but that by itself is not a reason to snap-lynch one player if the other flips scum. More important than the poor reasoning is that she needs to be pushed in order to out that reasoning. A townie would give the reasoning and go after the player they think is scum.

You asked a question for which the answer was given in the piece of text you quoted.

Also, I am not mentioning JF and SM together any more than comparing the cases on them.

Notice how she wasn't pressuring you to begin with.

She initially said that I was scum but backed off and said that I could be town when I attacked her.

No. Stop it. You biggest scum read in this game, and in EVERY game you've ever played on MS, is the player who suspects you. NO.

Trying to discredit a player rather than the argument.

Is there not town motivation to attack a player that other townies also think is scummy? Consider this: You were voting yabbaguy after agreeing with Eidolon. But wait-- "there is scum motivation to attack a player that a townie wanted lynched, but couldn't get a wagon going."

Opportunism. Sheeping isn't going to get me towncred and isn't going to make me look favorable to anyone. It was done simply for my own purposes. Town-read on Eido made me put more stock to her words and made me more confident that the player she was persuing would likely end up scum. Increased confidence led to my vote. And I couldn't give a fvck if the others thought I was town or bandwagoning scum.

In RBD's case, she anticipated that Eido wanted a Yabba lynch and made sure she voted Yabba first to make Eido think that she could be town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #283 (isolation #38) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:35 pm

Whiskers, your response was just, overall terrible. Completely missed the point and claimed that background information that I gave before presenting my case was not a scumtell. Of course it is not. It is a statement to give readers an insight into what I am talking about after which I present the reasoning for which RBD is scum. You overeagerness "nooo, stop it, stop it" points to one of two possibilities: RBD is the dayvig and you are her scumbuddy. RBD is town and you are defending her for towncred. I'd like to think it is the first one but I know that the second one is very likely and I could have been wrong.

Anyways, I did play a recent game offsite where a townie pressured me and I pressured him back. The other townies voted him, but scum sat back singing "OMGUS, OMGUS, OMFGUS" despite my reasoning actually not being based on OMGUS. So, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that RBD is town and Whiskers scum based on the voracious defence which is based on poor reasoning.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #284 (isolation #39) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:07 pm

I think we should choose between RBD and Whiskers for the lynch today. I'll let the others weigh in on it. Whisker's defense shows that he is extremely invested in RBD's survival. A case against RBD would merit a response from RBD with Whiskers (along with others) compare the responses and see whether to lynch. Whiskers is aggressively defending RBD either hoping for towncred or discouraging a lynch on her. Regardless of RBD's affiliation, the following posts are NOT town.

You're kidding. You're kidding, right?

Way too eager to defend someone who is supposedly a scary-good player.

NO. NO, FUCKING STOP IT RIGHT NOW. FUCKING NO. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED. STOP PLAYING THE GAME. GET UP AND WALK AWAY FROM YOUR COMPUTER. COME BACK TOMORROW. NO.

Again, trying too hard to take RBD's side.

YOU are. YOU do. In YOU, it looks like you're protecting a scumbuddy. In Eido, it looks like an attack.

Just false.

Rainbow Dash is allowed to have scumreads. She's allowed to have reasons for it.

Of course she is. I pointed out why the poor reasoning behind her reads makes her likely scum. The fact that you say it that way is telling.

No. Stop it. You biggest scum read in this game, and in EVERY game you've ever played on MS, is the player who suspects you. NO.

Trying too hard to discredit a scum-read on RBD.

I am almost certain at this point that Whiskers is scum. RBD is either town or the 2X dayvig. I'll settle for lynching either. Also, Whiskers playstyle has been markedly different from his town meta where he agrees or disagrees with parts of cases providing good reasoning. Here, he is just desperate either to stop RBD's lynch or for RBD's approval.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #286 (isolation #40) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:06 pm

Ugh, those pony pictures.

In Chosen mafia, for instance, you had very reasonable, good analysis. When I made a case, you pointed out flaws where flaws existed and agreed with the parts that were good. You had no pre-concieved notions before approaching a case and evaluated it on it's merits. When McStab, Eidolon or anyone made a case, similar response. Point is, you were trying hard to determine it's validity.

Here the tone of your posts suggests that you are not trying to figure out whether RBD is scum. You assume that you are town (almost as if you were her) and defend against the case as if it was personally directed at you. You also show a lot of desperation and attack pointless parts of it - for instance the background.

You quote the background information and say "not a scumtell." The motivation I can see for you doing this is to defend RBD as opposed to figure out whether she was mafia. You are too concerned about establishing that you think she is town as opposed to trying to figure out whether or not she is town.

Your town-meta, you actually scumhunt. So, far you have done no scumhunting. You are being passive overall.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #287 (isolation #41) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:08 pm

I'd vote Whiskers at this point but I would much rather hear from the others before deciding who is a better, and more practical lynch option.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #289 (isolation #42) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:39 pm

I was just about to Unvote and Vote whiskers but here comes RBD's next post which doesn't serve to alleviate my suspicion but only increases it.

At this point, RBD is flailing as can be seen by her usage of emotive language and characterization of scumhunting as "upset." For instance, when I call her scum, she says I am "upset" at her in order to discourage scumhunting and also to minimize the FOS on her. She also misuses the word OMGUS. I pointed out that the reasoning she uses to FOS me was invalid but she tries to characterize it as OMGUS because she accused me first. A scumread doesn't become invalid if they accuse you first. It is the reasoning that matters. She also uses the word "complaining" about a wagon to undermine what I was trying to say.

I too could start using emotive language and start saying "RBD is whining and complaing and crying about her beloved quicklynches" but I won't. I bring this up to alert readers to the emotive language she is using and to disregard arguments of that nature that she makes.

She downplays her comments on associative tells. She had previously said that one of me or Shaded flipping scum means that the other would need to be snap-lynched. Under pressure, she now modifies it to mean that she was merely pointing it out for others after she was dead.

Regarding the Scruffy post, I only pick out Eido because she was the only one who wanted a wagon on me after I replaced Scruffy. In any case, no scum motivation. If I were scum, I'd just accuse Eidolon of being scum and point out someone else like Klick as a townread. This was something that I wanted a townread to clarify for me.

Regarding her definition of a quicklynch - just because she says something is a quicklynch wagon doesn't mean that it is. I specifically said that my vote was not for a quicklynch. I can call it a regular wagon if I like. Her response does nothing to refute this analysis. I voted because I thought Yabba was scum. He did nothing to convince me otherwise. Only a more obvious scummy - RBD showed up.

My vote had to do with Eidolon convincing me that Yabba needs to be lynched. It had nothing to do with RBD's quicklynch theory I vehemently disagreed with.

Also, notice how in the last post, she says I need to stop accusing her and Whiskers because she might later push a lynch on me? She is threatening me as opposed to voting for me. It is a good mafia tactic if the townie doesn't know what he is doing or if the townie isn't competent enough. It is attempt to discourage me from FOSsing her as opposed to an accusation.

As to why I think Whiskers is scum, it is because of the tone of the response, not just the response itself. Also, RBD is minimizing and ignoring large chunks of analysis. Let's take a look at this: "Now you are attacking Whiskers because she also disagrees with your case."

Then take a look at 286. See how the justification I provided is butchered by RBD? This is the sort of thing that makes me believe she is scum - mis-representing analysis.

RBD, it is time we stop going back and forth without any real substance. If you think I am scum, vote me. Her backing off when I accuse her is proof that she is scum scared that she might be killed. Would a townie not be willing to take that chance? I am okay with the chance of getting killed because I am convinced RBD is scum.

Now, here is a great idea. RBD thinks she is absolutely awesome at finding scum which justifies lynching her on day 1 because even on the off-chance that she is town, she will likely catch scum. She is our best lynch target for today.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #290 (isolation #43) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:47 pm

The inactivity here is startling. RBD, Whiskers and I arguing back and forth isn't going to get us anywhere. Here are the people I'd still like to hear from:

- Eidolon
- Yabbaguy
- Johnny
- 2b1s
- Sweezy
- Klick

All have been relative active and had quite a few opinions on the proceedings before the 3 of us started arguing. Let's hear where they stand. Based on RBD's most recent response, I like my vote where it is but will change to whiskers if that is what the majority prefers.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #291 (isolation #44) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:52 pm

Also, calling for a policy-lynch of me and calling me a VI is absolutely hilarious since I vividly remember doing it in my last scum game. Rainy-days mafia by midnight's sorrow, I was serial killer trying to get McStab lynched. Paschendale, the confirmed town cop comes up with a strong attack against me, I can't FOS him back because he is confirmed, so I say we need to policy-lynch him. Funny stuff.

RBD can't accuse me of being scum today hence "policy-lynch" for later days. It is hilarious how obvious she is making herself and how much she is squirming. Now I get what she was saying about mafia being in uproar if the Dayvig is in the hotseat. Right now, all hell broke loose with whiskers and RBD. This is a lynch worth following through on.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #293 (isolation #45) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:32 pm

@ Johnny, see her response at immediately backing away once accused of being scum to the point where she says I am town and a VI and will push my lynch later when there is no vengekill. She also says she won't vengekill me which makes no sense since I am one of her scumreads and I am calling her bluff - I don't think she has a vengekill.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #294 (isolation #46) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:34 pm

Why is your vote on Yabba, Johnny?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #295 (isolation #47) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:36 pm

In post 292, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Rapid, a lot of your points on Dashie are pretty bad. They've all been tackled at one point or another by her or Whiskers, so I'm not going to bother.

Whisker's response was pretty terrible. I don't think as town, you can honestly make the above statement. ^

I'll settle for player advice: Your suspicions right now are driven by things that you think scum would do. Sure, scum might come in and try to take advantage of the suspicion already present on yabba, but you have to realize that it's also perfectly plausible that a townie could come in and just think yabba is scum. You're only seeing one possible motivation for her actions, when in fact there are many.

Similarly, you've got yourself so convinced that your case is a good one, that anyone who doesn't like it must be scum. "There's NO WAY a townie could disagree with this!" - you're thinking in the back of your mind.

FYI - the past few pages from RC look newbie to me, not necessarily scummy.

Again trying to discredit. You placed your vote based on absolutely no reasoning and you are trying to ignore abundantly good reasoning. Another reason why I think you are scum.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #297 (isolation #48) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:40 pm

Why is your vote on Yabba?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #299 (isolation #49) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:43 pm

Also, what is your read on whiskers?

Pedit: RBD/whiskers are so much better of a choice for a lynch right now. Let's get a wagon going on one of them.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #301 (isolation #50) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:50 pm

I explain clearly and logically in posts 242, 245, 257, 269, 272, 279 why RBD is scum.
In 282, 283, 284, 286, I show why Whiskers is scum.

Compare that to "

Hey look, a flashwagon. VOTE: yabba[/quote]

"

There you go Johnny, a better place to keep your vote.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #303 (isolation #51) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:56 pm

In post 300, JohnnyFarrar wrote:But they're not.

If you are town, i'd like to hear that perspective. Why did you just not say "Yabba is not a good place for a vote." Why did you say "hey look a flashwagon?" It doesn't match with your refusal to vote Whiskers or RBD.

This is what they've been saying, and now what I've been saying (since you're doing it again): You think everyone that disagrees with you is scum.

No, I thought you were scum before. It is not just that you disagree. If you disagreed with the vote on Yabba as well, I would assume that you are town. But you don't. You vote on terrible reasoning but when I make a case on RBD, you don't.

Give me one concise, simple post explaining why you think either of them is scum. No nulltells or nontells.

If you want, I guess, I'll make a short summary. Hang on.

Pedit

rapidcanyon · Post Post #304 (isolation #52) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:57 pm

In post 302, JohnnyFarrar wrote:That's not one clear, concise post. (Also why did you only link to a few of them??)

I can't keep typing for every single one of them, too tedious. I omitted the ones right below the ones I linked.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #305 (isolation #53) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:04 pm

- Backing away to the point of calling me town when I challenge her.
- Lying about the "quicklynch" wagon. I didn't vote for Yabba for a quicklynch but she fabricates a false contradiction by calling the Yabba wagon a quicklynch wagon and uses that false contradiction as a basis for FOS.
- Lying and saying that I was OMGUSsing people on the Scruffy wagon when the person I suspected (you) weren't on it and the person who I said was town (Eido) was.
- Use of emotive language and flailing. Calling her accuser "upset."
- If she is lynched and is town, she can make a good pick, so there is our insurance policy in case this goes bad. This can only happen with Day1 lynches.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #307 (isolation #54) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:27 pm

Okay, now give me your reasoning for voting Yabba and we'll compare them side by side with my reasoning for voting RBD.

In the meantime, I will pull up the quotes you need.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #309 (isolation #55) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:33 pm

That is not the reason you gave when asked why you were voting Yabba. You said you had no better place to keep your vote.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #311 (isolation #56) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:39 pm

In post 306, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 305, rapidcanyon wrote:- Backing away to the point of calling me town when I challenge her.

I'm not seeing this. Link me to the post? (Sorry if it's right in front of my face, that's a lot of words.)

276, last bit.

- Lying about the "quicklynch" wagon. I didn't vote for Yabba for a quicklynch but she fabricates a false contradiction by calling the Yabba wagon a quicklynch wagon and uses that false contradiction as a basis for FOS.

Five people voted him in twelve hours. You were one of them. That doesn't seem "quick" to you? You also kept your vote there, while at L-2, until she brought it up. And it's not surprising (or scummy) that she did.

No, the first few votes on a wagon often come quick. Doesn't mean that they intend to lynch. The last few votes take forever to come.

- Lying and saying that I was OMGUSsing people on the Scruffy wagon when the person I suspected (you) weren't on it and the person who I said was town (Eido) was.

1) You did call out Eido specifically about that wagon. You can't deny it.

I asked for clarification. I explained this quite a few times.

2) Dashie isn't so terrible at this game that she would rely on OMGUS to discredit you

No, but pretending to not understand clear logic and deliberately acting thick-skulled is a scum-tactic used by smart players.

- Use of emotive language and flailing. Calling her accuser "upset."

I am not now nor will I ever vote someone for the way they talk, unless there's a marked difference between a certain situation and their norm. This is the same as me accusing Eido of being scum for joking. (aka BS) [/quote]

Fair enough, but you are missing the point. I am saying her emotive language is a scumtell.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #312 (isolation #57) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:40 pm

In post 308, JohnnyFarrar wrote:You said yourself you liked Eido's case. I don't mind Dashie's. I think it's the best we have right now.

How is her case on Yabba's better than my case on her? You are wilfully choosing to ignore cases on your scumbuddies and voting based on poor cases they make on townies.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #313 (isolation #58) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:41 pm

I am not voting Yabba even as a compromise. There are 3 people I'd like to get lynched: Johnny, Whiskers, and Rainbowdash. I'll compromise on any one of the three.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #315 (isolation #59) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:01 pm

It is not just that you disagreed, it is the way that you disagreed is important. I have shown why Whiskers responding to my case on RBD FOR her is scummy as he starts with the notion that RBD is town. Also, the desperation is scummy. "nooo, not rbd" etc.

You are scummy because you refuse to vote based on perfectly good reasoning but don't mind casting a vote on Yabba based on nothing but the fact that you think you have nowhere else to put your vote. There is no reason a townie would simply ignore what I said and continue voting for a horrible choice of a lynch. This is you. This is why I think you are scum. My case against RBD is much more stronger and more impactful than her case on Yabba. She is using poor logic to justify her FOSses. Also, I am tired of interacting with you which is a good tell that you are scum. Scum often look around like they have no idea what the other person is talking about. When many townies are inactive, this becomes a problem.

The 5 votes didn't make me nervous. I didn't think anyone would quicklynch him. I explicitly said that we should allow him to speak. I expected the others to give him that chance.

I didn't unvote because someone brought it up. I unvoted because I found RBD scummier. (Again, this is why you are scum. I explain things to you and you act like I am talking to a brick wall. I already said this before that the reason I unvoted was because I found RBD scummier. So, why are you again saying that I unvoted because someone brought it up?)

POE. If you, whiskers, and RBD are scum, Yabba can't be. Eidolon's case was good but I like my case on RBD better.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #317 (isolation #60) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:08 pm

Read. Yes, the case against Yabba has merit but look at them side-by-side.

The case against Rainbowdash:

Spoiler:

The case against Yabbaguy:

Spoiler:

In post 238, Eidolon wrote:RC, here's why i'm suspicious of yabba:

-He attacked me for trying to "lead" the town by getting them to talk, which was really just a whole OMGUS thing because he does it with the stance that he knows i'm town, while saying that HE was going to be the one to do it, and then does... nothing much. Sure you might think it's to obvious, but it's because he was fired up that i called him out on being scum.

- He's attacking all the newbs. easy options for scum, don't you think? He's pushing easy wagons. he's not scumhunting.

- All the points i mentioned before, in posts 154:

Okay. After reading over the game, I still like my suspicion on yabba. Vote: yabba

He seems to post a lot of stuff that is very general in an attempt to make it look like he's contributing.

I don't think him saying "no one posted here is town yet" really would do anything to pressure latecomers to the game. Pressure really only works when it is aimed at someone in particular.

He made a very minor case on johnny and threw it out very easily.

He also go way over worked up about my posting and then said he would be the one to get the game on a good track, but i don't see him doing any of that. He's trying to dismantle my attempts at getting people talking. Way too comfortable with the way the game is progressing, huh?

His vote on name user seems like the easy thing to do, as well as his vote on johnny.

I'd also support a sweezy wagon, and a wagon on rc due to scruffy's slot.

In post 239, rapidcanyon wrote:Okay, 39, he pretty much says what RBD is proposing: "the absolute panic from the scum if the 2X gets run up." He votes scruffy and responds to what 1b2s said about him. The next post is a catching up post. 83, he FOSses Johnny for the cookie-cutter approach that I mentioned earlier makes no sense to me. In 106, he votes Johnny, and in 110, he unvotes. 138 is a response to Eidolon's accusation. 174, he can interchangeably vote both Johnny or NameUser. But he had previously unvoted Johnny. This post came after my entrance into the game where I voted Johnny, so it is somewhat opportunistic.

I agree that he is not scumhunting and is pushing easy wagons, made a small case against Johnny and threw it away, so yeah, you have me convinced.

UNVOTE: Johnny
VOTE: Yabbaguy

Pedit: Okay. I don't really care so much about getting you to bus as about getting townies to vote for my scumreads.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #319 (isolation #61) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:28 pm

The above post is stupid to a ridiculous extent. I was the one who was the MAJOR push behind trying to lynch Johnny. My scumread on Johnny started with his BS case against Eidolon. It didn't suddenly materialize when he disagreed on the case on RBD. It just confirmed my already existing scum-read. A fourth person disagreeing with me doesn't suddenly make them scum in my mind. Johnny was already scum to me. You fail to grasp the difference.

Whiskers, when RBD was accused going into an all-caps posts telling me to stop. This is what RBD was talking about - bring some heat onto the scum dayvig and all hell will break loose. That is exactly what happenned with RBD and Whiskers.

Accusing other players of being scum isn't an "implosion." Again, emotive language = scumtell.

Her entire post above is trying to discredit someone who she previously thought was a scumread. She CANNOT accuse me anymore since I would demand that she vote for me. So, she starts off with the insults - I hate players like this, can't you play mafia without insulting others? Anyways, this is a defence mechanism for scum. When a confirmed townie attacks scum for instance, they insult back because they CANNOT accuse that player of being scum. I did the same thing in Rainy Days mafia with Paschendale. This is similar because RBD has to back off since she knows that if she goes head to head with me, 50% chance, she is lynched, 50% chance I am lynched. 100% chance, RBD is dead at the end of day 1. Of course, she is squirming and backing off trying to laugh it off nervously while dishing out insults about my skill.

RBD, whatever happenned to being the friendliest player that you claim to be? Once under pressure and unable to pressure back, you start falsely accusing people of having breakdowns hoping to discredit them? Can't keep your cool under pressure, can you?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #320 (isolation #62) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Oh, and I already FOSsed Whiskers for contributing NOTHING of substance before he disagreed with me. My scumreads popped up to defend RBD. Not the other way around.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #321 (isolation #63) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:37 pm

RBD, if you really are town, act rationally. *Recognize* that people are buddying you. The fact that you don't is what makes me think scum-dayvig as opposed to really skilled townie whom scum are terrified of voting. I mean, whiskers was acting so butthurt when I made a case against you as if the case was made against himself. HE responded to the case as opposed to waiting to see your response and deciding which was better. Don't delude yourself into thinking that any case on you is so bad that the people defending you must be town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #322 (isolation #64) » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:41 pm

The only person besides my top 3 scumreads voting for Yabba is Eidolon. Let's see what she has to say.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #328 (isolation #65) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:02 am

I am not letting Yabba get lynched today and will do absolutely everything in my power to stop that lynch from happenning.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #329 (isolation #66) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:07 am

We need more inactives to lon on and vote RBD.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #330 (isolation #67) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:08 am

In post 327, Eidolon wrote:I see that it's getting no where by dismantling rapids case, so i'm just going to point out why RBD has done townie things and why RBD should not be lynched today. it won't be a long post and it'll be later, but HOPEFULLY we can move on because Rapid is the only one supporting this lynch so far and we need to get a scum lynched. lurkers will have a hard enough time catching up as it is.

Rapid, consider that. You made your points already so don't argue them anymore. If they stand up on their own, latecomers will argee with them, if not, they won't.

You just said you were going to argue why RBD is town. She is not.

I'd settle for a Johnny or Whiskers lynch though. See how Whiskers was defending RBD? That's not town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #331 (isolation #68) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:19 am

Oh, and Eidolon, please do elaborate on how she has done "townie things." Her second post was mediocre at best but you were practically drooling over it because she voted the person who insulted you. You can't be serious. Go back and think logically about her motivations for doing it. We can come back to Yabba later if necessary. Lynch RBD, if she flips town, we can consider Yabba, but if she flips mafia, agree to let it go.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #332 (isolation #69) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:20 am

Or whiskers or Johnny. Their behavior speaks for themselves.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #334 (isolation #70) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:45 am

In post 333, Whiskers wrote:
In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:I was just about to Unvote and Vote whiskers but here comes RBD's next post which doesn't serve to alleviate my suspicion but only increases it.
Alright, here we fucking go.

In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:At this point, RBD is flailing as can be seen by her usage of emotive language and characterization of scumhunting as "upset." For instance, when I call her scum, she says I am "upset" at her in order to discourage scumhunting and also to minimize the FOS on her.
Wrong. You are upset. Or, at least, you look upset.

Wrong. I am not upset. I think you are scum and you are desperate.

RD says you're scum, so you have this explosion of why she must be scum.

I made a clear case for why she is scum. You are trying to discredit it because you have no good response.

It boils down to, she suspected you.

No, her reasoning for suspecting me doesn't add up. That is why I think she is scum. Even on the off-chance that she is town, your voracious defense points to you being scum.

In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:She also misuses the word OMGUS. I pointed out that the reasoning she uses to FOS me was invalid but she tries to characterize it as OMGUS because she accused me first. A scumread doesn't become invalid if they accuse you first. It is the reasoning that matters.
Wrong. You are OMGUSsing hard. Pretty hard. Look-- when another player disagrees with you, you attack her, too! Yeah, call it discrediting, whatever, but you OMGUS like crazy in every game I've ever seen you attacked in.

I was already suspicious of you and Johnny. Your defence of RBD solidified and already existing scumread. Did you read that part or are you, like most scum, ignoring and misrepping information?

In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:She also uses the word "complaining" about a wagon to undermine what I was trying to say.
You
WERE
complaining! You voted Yabbaguy in one post and said, "We shouldn't quicklynch!" in the next, even though you were contributing to the wagon that was a candidate for quicklynch. Like others should move their votes so you can have yours on him, but not lynch.

[/quote]

Giving my views about whether the wagon should be a quicklynch one or not is not "complaining." She uses that emotive language to discredit my argument and you are supporting her language. There is just no way, I can think of that you are town.

In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:Regarding her definition of a quicklynch - just because she says something is a quicklynch wagon doesn't mean that it is. I specifically said that my vote was not for a quicklynch. I can call it a regular wagon if I like. Her response does nothing to refute this analysis. I voted because I thought Yabba was scum. He did nothing to convince me otherwise. Only a more obvious scummy - RBD showed up.
Do you really not get this? If a player is being "quick-waggoned," and you hop onto that wagon as it's going up, then you are on the quickwagon. It's not as though you're unaware of how fast the wagon is moving-- if you really don't want a lynch on that player at that point in time, then you really shouldn't vote for him.

[/quote]

You just don't get this do you? I voted Yabba because at the time I felt he was scum. I don't give a fvck if other people quickwagon. I speficically asked that he not be lynched quickly. I had no fear that he was going to be hammered. Why? Because I told people not to quicklynch. This doesn't make his wagon a "quicklynch wagon."

In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:Also, notice how in the last post, she says I need to stop accusing her and Whiskers because she might later push a lynch on me? She is threatening me as opposed to voting for me. It is a good mafia tactic if the townie doesn't know what he is doing or if the townie isn't competent enough. It is attempt to discourage me from FOSsing her as opposed to an accusation.
That is not what she said. She said that you need to stop OMGUSsing (even if you find reasons for it, the two players you've attacked are the two players who have doubted or suspected you), because the stupid pushes will get you lynched. Remember Siv? Only this time, you're NOT confirmed town. Someone was willing to lynch you when you were confirmed town because this (thing you do) is so bad.

Siv made a really dumb move voting a townie over a mafioso. He later reached LYLO and lost the game. I can't defend his skill in mafia. I on the other hand almost never lost a game at LYLO/MYLO as town on DDO and the only game on mafiascum where I have reached LYLO as town, town won.

In post 289, rapidcanyon wrote:As to why I think Whiskers is scum, it is because of the tone of the response, not just the response itself. Also, RBD is minimizing and ignoring large chunks of analysis. Let's take a look at this: "Now you are attacking Whiskers because she also disagrees with your case."

Way to ignore my analysis. You are desperate and you are answering before she has a chance to look through my case.

Then take a look at 286. See how the justification I provided is butchered by RBD? This is the sort of thing that makes me believe she is scum - mis-representing analysis.

But, look at 286. You point to one game of mine, you tell me I'm defending Rainbow Dash. Well... it's true! I'm defending Rainbow Dash because you're being destructive in attacking her. The things you're attacking her for don't really make sense, aren't really scummy.
I disagree with your case.

You quoted background information I gave as a preview to my case and started screaming "not scummy, not scummy." Of course it won't be. The mere fact that you chose to quote it and say that it is not speaks to how invested you are in defending RBD.

A townie wouldn't stupidly push once her mind has changed. RBD looks at your reaction and your play. It's not that you accused her or something: If you look, her reasoning was along the lines of, "I don't think scum would even play this bad."

That is a coverup reason she is giving so she can cop out on pushing a lynch on me Day 1. She knows that if she goes after me and I go after her, there is 100% certainty that she will be dead. If town, she should be willing to take that chance in hopes of catching a mafioso.

Now, here is a great idea. RBD thinks she is absolutely awesome at finding scum which justifies lynching her on day 1 because even on the off-chance that she is town, she will likely catch scum. She is our best lynch target for today.
Actually, it would be cool to lynch scum, or, like you want, to try to scumhunt and maybe get some reactions from, oh, idk, running somepony up to L-1.

She is scum. I am postive. This will just be our insurance policy in case she flips town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #336 (isolation #71) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:48 am

I am not being a prick, you are. You are not seeing the obvious scum here and are drooling over a mafioso's posts. If you are not going to vote RBD, there is no point driving your Yabba case either. He is not getting lynched today. Maybe tomorrow but not today. I will do everything I can to stop it from happenning.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #338 (isolation #72) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:50 am

I don't mind lynching Whiskers today.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #340 (isolation #73) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:52 am

How am I being a prick?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #342 (isolation #74) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:57 am

- I haven't insulted anyone so far and don't intend to in this game or in the future. I have merely pointed out my scumreads. How is that pricky?

- You are doing pretty much the same thing. You are pushing a Yabba lynch which I don't agree with and don't want to happen. Everyone has their own goal - push their scumreads and defend their townreads. Why is it only pricky and anti-town when I do it?

- I haven't tunnelled. I gave 3 players I was willing to compromise on. If not Yabba, who will you lynch?

- If Yabba flips town, will you vote RBD the next day?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #344 (isolation #75) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:15 am

I am sorry about my behavior. I just got really caught up in the moment. The responses given by Whiskers were just terrible and I was just itching to reply.

I will drop the issue. If everyone is agreed on voting Yabba, I will do it to speed up the process.

I am shocked that you would policy-lynch me. I don't give a fvck is RBD or Whiskers wanted to policy-lynch me but you saying made me re-consider. I hadn't realized how destructive I was being. It is what you said about taking a break. I sincerely want to be a more cool-headed player like you. It is just hard to put it into practice. So, I'll take the advice you gave me in a PM a couple days ago and not post for the rest of this DP unless to answer clarifying questions.

I'll wait for Klick and 2b1s though. If they want to go with a Yabba lynch, I'll add my vote. But I want to give them the chance to consider that option.

Also, I apologize for saying that you were "drooling over a mafioso's posts". It was uncalled for and offensive. It came out in the heat of the moment before I had time to think. After I said it, I regretted it. I am sorry. I respect your skills in this game very much. I think it came down to the fact that I was ticked off that I put much more effort into this game than someone who made 10 posts, yet you commended their efforts.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #346 (isolation #76) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:14 am

Unvote

It is completely impossible for all three of RBD, Whiskers, and Johnny to be mafia. Maybe one of them really is mafia. But no way all three of them are mafia. It is completely impossible and I am stupid for believing it even for an instant. Mafia don't all defend each other. And it is just incredibly stupid to believe that a good player like Whiskers would defend the mafia dayvig. Of course it makes sense if RBD was town and I wrongly accused her for scum-Whiskers to leap in and attack the case. It is entirely plausible that I did really pin mafia with RBD but town-Whiskers wasn't convinced. Could be all 3 are town but I don't think so.

Anyways, I am convinced enough to lay off of them and vote Yabba based on Eidolon's initial case.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #351 (isolation #77) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:19 am

Mod, could you post the list of currently active players again? I'd do it but I am not sure if it is allowed.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #353 (isolation #78) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:23 am

Another mod question, sorry. Is it possible for the other mafiosos (not the dayvig) to submit the kill on behalf of the dayvig or does the dayvig need to do it himself?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #356 (isolation #79) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:51 am

RBD, what is your opinion on Whisker's buddying?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #358 (isolation #80) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:09 am

In post 357, D3f3nd3r wrote:The Dayvig must personally send me a PM, or he must tell me in the QT.

Sweet.

1) Klick is not the dayvig.
2) Shaded/Kimor is not the dayvig.
3) Jigglymence is not the dayvig.
4) 2b1s is not the dayvig.
5) Nameuser is not the dayvig.
6) Sweezy is not the dayvig.

7) I could be the dayvig. But I know I am not, narrowing down the choices to:

8) Whiskers could be the dayvig.
9) Rainbowdash could be the dayvig.
10) Yabba could be the dayvig.
11) Johnny could be the dayvig.

This is based purely on when they were last active.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #359 (isolation #81) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:11 am

I am uncertain about RBD when I unvoted.

It is imperative that we hear from all the players alive. I especially want to hear analysis from Klick, Kimor, 2b1s, Nameuser, and Sweezy.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #362 (isolation #82) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:14 pm

In post 361, Whiskers wrote:@rapid: you can't really discount all of those players just because they aren't active right now, in this game.
they would be active onsite but purposely lurking here, or the mod might allow delayed-kills to be submitted.

I checked their profiles to see when they were last online.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #363 (isolation #83) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:18 pm

Whiskers, did you allow delayed kills in the game that you modded? If so, how did they work?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #366 (isolation #84) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:03 pm

Klick, Yabba, and RBD had their profiles set to hide. I eliminated Klick because he was on V/LA. Yabba and RBD, I did not eliminate.

We know with certainty that the mod was online Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:10 pm since he made a post then. If the dayvig had not logged on since that time, they should have submitted a kill before then. BUT since the mod was online, he would have carried out the kill. The only explanations are:

a) delayed kills
b) someone who logged on after the mod's last post submitted the kill

We are not necessarily vig hunting but it could save us a townie if we lynch the vig today. I agree with general scumhunting but don't you think the vig should be a priority?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #371 (isolation #85) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:48 pm

In post 370, Kimor wrote:
Rapidcanyon - Do you think that the dayvig would be more likely to PM or to use the quicktopic?

I don't know and I don't really care either WHERE they sent the kill. What I wanted to know was the whether the dayvig had to personally send in the kill or if anyone in the mafia could do it on behalf of them. This I would have used to pin who the dayvig was based on the times they were online until the mod stepped is and asked us to not use that analysis.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #372 (isolation #86) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:02 pm

Kimor, what is the relevance of the question you asked me as well as the ones you asked others? Who cares where the dayvig submits their kill? You asked sweezy if all logical players are town and all illogical players are scum? What is the point of that question? Also, you call out name user on asking a lot of questions but making few statements. This is exactly what you are doing. So, by your standards you are playing scummy, right?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #376 (isolation #87) » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:58 pm

Yabba, what is your response to RBD's and Eidolon's cases against you?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #387 (isolation #88) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:55 am

NameUser, thoughts on whiskers?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #390 (isolation #89) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:00 pm

Whisker's buddying, I mean. I don't know if you got to the part where I accused RBD, and whiskers jumped in to protect her.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #391 (isolation #90) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:05 pm

I think NU is town enough, that long post by post analysis of the game likely came from a town motivation. Out of the three potential wagons (Yabba, Sweezy, and Johnnny), I prefer Johnny.

VOTE: Johnny

Reasons are obvious - the ones I've been harping on about throughout the thread.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #392 (isolation #91) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:35 pm

Actually

Unvote: Johnny

Vote: Whiskers

bigger scum read

rapidcanyon · Post Post #396 (isolation #92) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:02 pm

2b1s, thoughts on whiskers? Also, I am not being "defensive," until recently, I thought RBD was scum but the amount of buddying from a bunch of other players made me think she was town. If she was scum, I'd expect her scumbuddies to at least be ambiguous about her as opposed to flat-out saying she was town and complimenting her. That makes it fairly obvious at this point the she is town so I dropped it.

At least one of the people who buddied are scum so we should be looking there - maybe Johnny, based on his earlier scummy play or whiskers. Also, based on the timing on the kill, it points towards Johnny or Whiskers. I am either/or at this point. Ideally we should have one of them kill the other if town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #398 (isolation #93) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:19 pm

Oh, and it will be helpful if you could give your thoughts on johnny as well. I'd prefer whiskers but I'd vote Johnny as a deadline lynch.

Actually, if you could give a list of your reads, that would be appreciated. I have a feeling that we are going to reach deadline considering the pace of the game and comprimises will likely be made by all of us. It would be a good idea to have everyone's reads out there. I'll give mine in a sec.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #399 (isolation #94) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:30 pm

Town

1) Rapidcanyon -

2) Klick - Biggest townread after Eido who is dead. Mostly through POE, others have been much more scummy.
3) 2birds1stone - initially very active and has been trying to find scum.
4) Rainbowdash - obvious town (people are treating her like a queen. I doubt scumdash would get that treatment.

Leaning town

5) Name User - newish town-vibe from him, putting quite a bit of effort into the game.
6) yabbaguy - the wagon on him is going way too quick, he could have been framed.

Null

7) JigglymenceP2 - scum-ish, answering RQS late-game. Lurking. But could be noob-town.
8) Kimor - his questions seemed odd almost like RQS this late in the game
9) Sweezy - post more. Posts seemed townish but not entirely sure about them. Can't get rid of that

gut-feeling

on Sweezy-scum though.

Scum

9) JohnnyFarrar - BS Eido case, other reasons expounded in the thread.
10) Whiskers - Mega-buddying, lack of any real contribution which contradicts his town-meta.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #401 (isolation #95) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:40 pm

I went back and read the Sweezy post to delve deeper into why I had that gut feeling.

In post 364, Sweezy wrote:
In post 343, Eidolon wrote:
will take an eternity to get caught up.

Pretty much.

Excuse for not posting. inb4, whiskers yells "not a scumtell."

I'm posting from work again,

Apologetic.

so I won't have anything detailed right off the bat here. Caught up on reading the thread, but I haven't totally digested it yet. Though I will say for now that the interaction between RC's #344 and Eidolon's #345 sheds some light on RC's alignment now that Eido has flipped. I'm getting a vibe of someone who threw a tantrum over his case being refuted by three people, and then finally feeling regret when the one person he respects the most out of all of us took his enemies' side.
It feels fairly sincere to me, and allows me to read his prior arguments as (very,
very
) derptown rather than scummy.

Kinda get the feeling he is posting what I wanted to hear since I earlier reacted negatively to being accused of being scum. But that was before I had the time to take a breather. Caught ya, scum.

I'd like to think Whiskers is town, if only because he (she?) allowed
some
semblance of logic to shine through in the last few pages.

Basically a compliment.

RBD...she did a fine job defending herself,

Another compliment. No backing.

This significantly reduces my scumread on whiskers.

Vote Sweezy

Let's do this.

Pedit: surprise!

rapidcanyon · Post Post #402 (isolation #96) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:47 pm

In post 400, Whiskers wrote:Not commenting on a lot, because I didn't understand a lot. I'm kind of out of it right now.
However:
My buddying with rainbowdash gives you a townread on rainbowdash and a scumread on me. Interesting.

Yes, because of the way you are treating her and trying a bit too hard to associate yourself with her so if she flips town, you would also look townish. Even if it is a town-read, I've never seen town defend that voraciously before.

Also interesting that you dump a scumread because other players disagree.

Rapid, honey, you don't
know
my town meta, and if I've done anything right over my career, I don't
have
a town meta.

So, far you have played significantly differently from Chosen mafia where you posted tons of analysis and tried to take a leadership role among the town sorta like what Eido did this game. In this game, you are not being pro-active, not actively hunting scum.

It doesn't matter. My

gut

says Sweezy and I want to see where this goes and if he flips scum, I think you are very likely town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #404 (isolation #97) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:30 pm

Why were you happy to see Eido go? I wish she were still here.

Regarding Sweezy, he seemed really apologetic and appeasing. At first, I skated over it and liked his post. I then realized he basically said what I would have initially wanted to hear (that I was town), then he qualified that statement with what others wanted to hear (that I was derp-town), then he complimented RBD on doing a "fine-job" defending herself and he also has nice words for Whiskers ("the logical person"). Add to that, he makes no attempt to scumhunt.

You voted Sweezy, I don't know for what reason and wanted to run him up to L-1. I doubt scum would do that to their buddy although it is possible.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #406 (isolation #98) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:42 pm

Sure, you could be. It is a possibility.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #409 (isolation #99) » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:24 pm

@ 2b1s, yeah, it sorta makes sense. Whiskers is certainly a good enough scum player that he (she?) would never actively push the lack of not knowing a setup as a towntell. He is too smart for this. I've played a couple of games with him. I regard it as a nulltell. I get what you are saying about the criticism of the time-stamp though. That didn't feel very natural.

Even still, I want to see how a sweezy wagon goes and whiskers was the first vote so I am not really too interested in whiskers at this moment. Thoughts on Sweezy?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #415 (isolation #100) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:24 am

@ NU,

1) I think Yabba being framed is definitely a possibilty. I don't like the votes on him. I think they are coming too easily and it doesn't feel right.

2) I'd like to hear from Sweezy. What is your opinion on his last post? Seems a bit too designed to appease everyone.

3) I'll compromise on Johnny as a deadline lynch, so unless we can get a lynch going on someone, it does seem like he is our fall-back target.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #416 (isolation #101) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:01 am

Also, RBD may have been a waste of time, I came to the conclusion that she was town based on other player's treatment of her so it wasn't a total waste and whiskers and johnny were certainly not a waste of time as it is likely Johnny is scum and maybe whiskers but I am not sure.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #418 (isolation #102) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:56 am

I want to hear Sweezy's and Yabba's responses to the votes on them and Klick's analysis of the situation. Based on those responses and Kick's vote, I'll probably pick the wagon I like best.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #419 (isolation #103) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:58 am

@ mod, can you post a vote count when you get the chance?

rapidcanyon · Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:00 pm

In post 427, Whiskers wrote:Idk how to feel about yabba. Yeah, nopony came in to stop the lynch (except RC), but
he looks like scum who has given up on the game-- plays loose and doesn't care about how he looks.

idk.
Also, My two townreads plus goodplayer Rainbow Dash are on his wagon. Plus, Eidolon was interested in him. If Yabbaguy were the vig, it would make a lot of sense for him TO kill Eidolon before he got lynched.

This I can agree with. He never answers questions directly, so far he has not addressed the case on him and he is acting as if he doesn't care.

It seems we are headed towards a Yabba lynch anyways.

I'll give him 24 hours starting now. If he doesn't post something substantial by then and address the case on him, I will vote for him.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #436 (isolation #105) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:04 pm

So, why don't you do something? Anything? Yes, my read on you is variable because you are acting completely disinterested in the game. You haven't answered what RBD wrote about you. You haven't answered what Eidolon wrote about you. You aren't even

trying.

You just pop in and vote NameUser, then you vote Johnny, you are not even

attempting

to scumhunt.

Btw, it is not an ultimatum. It is a statement of mostly resignation. The wagon on you won't disappear if you don't address it and any attempt to get another wagon going will be futile and I finally realized that.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #438 (isolation #106) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:07 pm

Yabba, can you link me to a couple of your recent games - one as town and one as scum.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #439 (isolation #107) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:13 pm

And thoughts of Sweezy's post will be nice too from Yabba and Klick.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #444 (isolation #108) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:25 pm

"a tyrannical stranglehold on our Day's productivity"

If you are talking about Eidolon, you are kidding me, right? She was the most pro-town player in the game.

Anyways, I'd still like to see recent examples of your new playstyle as town and scum.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #448 (isolation #109) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:33 pm

If Yabba is town, Whiskers should be the obvious vengekill.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #452 (isolation #110) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:05 pm

Okay, Yabba acted the same way in Rainy Days mafia - nearly giving up when about to be lynched as town.

I'd rather go with Johnny, Whiskers or Sweezy right now.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #454 (isolation #111) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:26 pm

@ Kilck, if someone is in the "everyone else" list and we lynch them, would it not make more sense for them to target another person from the "everyone else" list if they were town?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #472 (isolation #112) » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:42 pm

In post 1, D3f3nd3r wrote:
> Activity & Deadlines
11) Prods will be issued after 72 hours in a row without posting. If I keep having to prod you I'll get angry and replace you. Players may request a prod on another player too, I'm human I may forget so if you want someone prodded just tell me.

Can prods only be requested after 72 hours or at anytime?

If anytime, I am requesting a prod on Sweezy. I think 2 days, 5 hours since last post.

rapidcanyon · Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:15 pm

I skimmed through quickly. Will post more in a couple of hours. Just wanted to say I don't think 2b1s is scum. I'd rather go with Kimor.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #524 (isolation #114) » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:43 pm

In post 523, Whiskers wrote:Because, despite what a votecount or two might say, I only have the normal number of votes.

You have the power of persuation which you aren't using to convince anyone to vote anyone else. You are not pushing any wagon.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #569 (isolation #115) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:59 am

Unvote:

Sweezy. We can come back to him tomorrow.

I'd rather lynch Kimor but I can settle for Johnny. It doesn't make sense though for both me and Klick to settle when we would both rather lynch Kimor. I'll wait for Klick's response.

@ mod

, if two people have equal number of votes, do you arbitrarily choose who is lynched? Or is there a specific method?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #572 (isolation #116) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:16 am

No. Plenty of people did. But,

1) My and Eidolon's cases against ShadedMelee who you replaced.
2) Your initial questions are really contrived and I don't see the benefit of them.
3) You try to get Sweezy lynched but I was the only one who made a case against Sweezy. Why follow my ideas if you think I am scum? That seems pretty opportunistic.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #590 (isolation #117) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:50 pm

In post 567, D3f3nd3r wrote:VC 1-8 10/4

JohnnyFarrar— 3/6 - Name User, JigglymenceP2, 2birds1stone
JigglymenceP2— 2/6 - Klick, Whiskers
2birds1stone— 3/6 - Rainbowdash, JohnnyFarrar, Kimor
Kimor— 1/6 - Klick
Not Voting (2) – Sweezy, Rapidcanyon

Looking at the vote count, it seems like Johnny or 2b1s are likely going to be lynched today. 2b1s, why self-preservation when you get a vengekill if you are lynched as town?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #593 (isolation #118) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:11 pm

My top choice at this point is Whiskers. But I don't see that happenning. Whiskers keeps saying that Kimor is town which makes me want to vote Kimor. Besides Klick is my strongest townread at this point so I'll sheep Klick. Between Johnny and 2b1s, I's definitely vote Johnny, if it comes down to my vote making a difference in whether 2b1s or Johnny is lynched, I'll switch.

VOTE: Kimor

rapidcanyon · Post Post #598 (isolation #119) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:41 pm

Okay, so Kimor wagon isn't happening either.

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

rapidcanyon · Post Post #601 (isolation #120) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:49 pm

Obvious Whiskerscum is obvious. The fact that I am supporting a wagon is a good reason to go against it?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #604 (isolation #121) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:52 pm

JohnnyFarrar— 5/6 - Name User, JigglymenceP2, 2birds1stone, Klick, rapidcanyon
2birds1stone— 4/6 - Rainbowdash, JohnnyFarrar, Kimor, Whiskers
Not Voting (1) – Sweezy

So, it is all up to the people who are willing to switch and sweezy's replacement.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #605 (isolation #122) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:53 pm

In post 602, Whiskers wrote:Obvious Omgus RC is obvious.
And, yes.

I didn't OMGUS you. You never even accused me of being scum.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #614 (isolation #123) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:13 pm

At the time Kimor voted Klick, nearly every other player said that he was town. A Klick lynch wasn't going to happen. The vote was useless. If anyone thought Klick was actually going to get lynched and putting Kimor at risk of a vengekill, they are kidding themselves. Klick wasn't going to get lynched and Kimor most certainly wasn't anywhere near being in danger of a Klick vengekill. If that's his supposed towntell, I don't know what to say.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #621 (isolation #124) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:03 pm

Johnny, if we are not going to change your mind, you are merely asking for everyone's suspicions. They have been well-established throughout the day. Mine are Whiskers and Kimor.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #623 (isolation #125) » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:06 pm

whiskerpony

rapidcanyon · Post Post #644 (isolation #126) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:55 am

In post 642, Kimor wrote:BTW, I think it's rather obvious, but my RC vote is due to rampant buddying and odd interaction yesterday. Plus generic scumminess that I've mentioned in the past.

Do you think I'd buddy so obviously. The interactions between me and Klick are not scum-scum. There is a daytalk thread. I am sure scum distanced themselves from each other.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #645 (isolation #127) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:08 am

I don't know if Klick as scum would go up against Kimor-town so obviously. If they are both scum on the other hand, it makes sense to bus. Kimor knows that Klick was nowhere close to getting lynched/vigged, that vig-kill was completely unexpected. So, it makes sense to go up against Klick to distance himself. It seemed more likely that Kimor would be lynched/vigged so it makes sense to distance himself from Klick.

Other suspects, I'll do a re-read and see all the Klick interactions.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #650 (isolation #128) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:19 am

Yeah, I thought Klick was obvious town. I was completely shocked when he flipped 2X goon. Also, he was on VLA when the shot happenned which made me almost certain that he wasn't the goon.

Anyways, I agree with Whiskers that Yabba was likely framed. I just didn't buy Yabba being scum and I don't now. Still think Whiskers is scum though clearing a townie.

I don't really understand the votes on NameUser. Sure he posted a long wall about Klick's reads. Doesn't prove anything.

VOTE: Whiskers

rapidcanyon · Post Post #651 (isolation #129) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:23 am

List of people alive:

1)yabbaguy
2) PMysterious
3) Whiskers
4) 2birds1stone
5) Sweezy ** REPLACING
6) Rapidcanyon
7) Kimor
8) Rainbowdash
9) Name User

rapidcanyon · Post Post #659 (isolation #130) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:50 pm

Of course you "find me suspicious." I showed no intention of backing down from voting you at all. As scum, your only option is to find me "suspicious" because you have no other option - you can't convince me to lynch someone else so you gave up and are hoping to convince others to lynch me.

Anyways, I never proposed an alliance of any sort - I just thought Klick was town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #661 (isolation #131) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:29 pm

I don't know about RBD. My primary reason for believing she was town was that most people called her town. In general, in my experience so far, scum don't get that treatment. Rather townies are called obvtown by scum in a subtle attempt at buddying.

Anyways, coming to Klick:

1) Me-Kilck interactions are not scum-scum. I am not so bad as scum that I would tell Klick in the day thread that I am cool with voting whoever he votes for and discuss with him whether to vote for Kimor or Johnny. This we could do in the daytalk QT and distance ourselves a bit by voting at different times on Johnny. I was seriously fooled by Klick. He played great. He convinced people that he was town. He gave a fairly decent reason for why he thought I was town. He suspected the same people I did. I was sold that he was town and was willing to sheep him. I just got badly fooled.

2) There is no way I would have let Klick vig-kill Eido. I never night-killed her in all the games I've played with her both on debate.org(over 50) and on mafiascum (1 game where I was scum and she was town). In that game (Disney Villains mafia, everyone kept saying she was town, but I still didn't kill her). I just find it fun to play with her. When I am town, I argued more than once that since she was nk'ed, I was town. I never actually killed her as mafia so I could WIFOM it and falsely "confirm" myself as town. Besides, she was the one person who was willing to listen to what I say more than anyone else. Terrible choice of kill if I were scum, I would have buddied her to endgame. Klick and his team killed her I guess partly to break up the defacto alliance between the two of us since neither of us believed the other was scum.

3) You could attack 2b1s, but you'll have me on you pony* day in and day out and attacking 2b1s will probably turn him against you as well so you'll have two people to deal with. Considering RBD a "powerful" player is merely your opinion. It wouldn't work if you and RBD went for 2b1s and I and 2b1s kept going for you. So, choosing me really was the path of least resistance as you only have to deal with me.

*did I use that correctly?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #663 (isolation #132) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:43 pm

Why is Whiskers a town-read?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #667 (isolation #133) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:57 pm

3) "Not paying much mind" isn't going to help when I am trying to lynch you and you are trying to lynch 2b1s. It is an inherently flawed strategy as scum. The best scum strategy if I am trying to lynch you is to try and lynch me.

2) This only works assuming Klick did not consult with his teammates on who to kill. I don't buy that he would make the decision unilaterally. Mafia kills are usually collective, and in this case, despite the vig having control, I'd expect the kill to be on concensus. I played a game as scum (Disney Villains and we didn't kill until we were all agreed on a target). If I were scum, I would certainly have stopped him from making a kill.

1) I think he convinced most people in the game that he was town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #670 (isolation #134) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:27 pm

In post 669, Whiskers wrote:
In post 652, Whiskers wrote:
In post 650, rapidcanyon wrote:Still think Whiskers is scum though clearing a townie.

What?

Saying that Yabba was framed is probably true and probably something you did to get Yabba on your side.

In post 665, Whiskers wrote:
In post 663, rapidcanyon wrote:Why is Whiskers a town-read?

Why is Whiskers a scum-read?

His defense of RBD bordered on absurdity.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #671 (isolation #135) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:29 pm

Also, AFTER you are accused of buddying, you start disagreeing with RBD at every chance.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #674 (isolation #136) » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:46 pm

- Shaded was replaced by Sweezy, not Rainbow. She replaced Venrob who was completely inactive.

- When I accused RBD, she was called town by you, Johnny, Eido, and Sweezy. Johnny flipped town and his reads seem pretty good based on Klick flipping goon. I know for a fact that Eido's reads are good. You could be scum buddying. Sweezy is probably scum buddying. Although, considering Klick's flip, I have to re-evaluate my read on RBD. It seems that in this game, it is a good scum strategy to call each other obvious town. That means, scum may not necessarily be buddying only to townies. I don't know, RBD could be scum after all.

rapidcanyon · Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:03 pm

RBD, did you notice Whisker's latest posts? I get the feeling that he is sitting back and encouraging me to attack you where hopefully we attack each other and one of use end up lynched. He keeps asking whether I am suspicious of you and his post 675 is merely trying to appease me (he backs off and says he doesn't know who scum is).

Also, 2b1s, why Jigglypuff? All he has done is be inactive. I think a whiskers lynch has a much better chance of yielding scum.

Not to mention Whiskers lies says he doesn't remember being accused of buddying. Unless he has severe memory loss, how could he possibly forget it? He at this point is

wishing

that me and RBD start attacking each other so he can pick someone to get lynched and best case scenario both, so it brings him closer to a scum win.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #686 (isolation #138) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:14 pm

What is the difference between the Grey and the White?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #690 (isolation #139) » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:33 pm

Obviously it is a mafia tactic to make it seem as though you are pro-town, i.e. how could anyone lynch someone who is willing to get lynched? I don't buy it.

rapidcanyon · Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:40 am

I am not voting 21bs. I'd rather wait to hear from the inactives to hear their thoughts. Specifically Name User who I think is town. Zabriel replaced Sweezy, so I might settle for that wagon if NU/other inactives don't support a whiskers wagon.

rapidcanyon · Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:43 am

Yeah, and I'd like to hear from 2b1s as well as to who else he is willing to vote for. Jigglypuff wagon is not going to go anywhere based on the fact that no one is voting him.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #718 (isolation #142) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:23 pm

I don't like RBD's reasons for thinking I am town. Mostly, "too bad to be scum." More likely she is just scum making stuff up to have a townread. While I'd rather go with Whiskers, I don't think it is a bad idea to lynch RBD and follow her plan if she is town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #720 (isolation #143) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:51 pm

@ 2b1s, why do you think she is town?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #722 (isolation #144) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:56 pm

I find it really odd that you are refusing to vote for someone who is trying to lead a lynch on you.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #723 (isolation #145) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:00 pm

The fact that 2b1s flat-out defends RBD who is trying to lynch him makes me certain that either RBD is town and he is trying to appease her or that RBD is scum and this is a planned bus. Now way is his a townie reaction.

VOTE: 2birds1stone

rapidcanyon · Post Post #727 (isolation #146) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:37 pm

Unvote

VOTE: Whiskers

It is fairly obvious that whiskers has no intention on moving the game forward and every post he makes is rubbish. 2b1s's behavior is odd but it can wait. Whiskers is top priority.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #728 (isolation #147) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:39 pm

If 2b1s votes Whiskers or RBD, I'll help push that wagon but he is so desperate to simply die, I'll settle on him for a deadline lynch and hopefully we can focus on scummier people.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #729 (isolation #148) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:42 pm

@ 21bs, it is not "mindless omgus-ing." A townie would jump at the chance to lynch the person who is trying to lynch them for stupid reasons. You just don't care. Given an opportunity to lynch RBD, you basically look the other way and say "nah, not scummy enough." So, obviously you leave people with no choice but to vote you.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #731 (isolation #149) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:34 pm

So, RBD has good reasons for tunneling you?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #733 (isolation #150) » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:37 pm

Oh, really? You are unbelievable.

rapidcanyon · Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:24 pm

Zabriel replaced Sweezy didn't he? That works for me. I'd vote but he is at L-1 so I'd like to make sure he gets a chance to post or that we are all agreed on it.

rapidcanyon · Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:38 pm

Okay, lets go with Zabriel.

VOTE: Zabriel

rapidcanyon · Post Post #752 (isolation #153) » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:12 pm

In post 741, Whiskers wrote:Okay. This is going to sound bad, but I do think PM is a better lynch-- we know how PM plays, but I've never seen Zabriel, so he may be good or bad. Also, that playerslot at least had some reads for us to look at.

I am very surely "testing the water" here-- but if we're lynching a lurker think we could lynch PM first.

[preedit]
or not. w/e.

You made this post 8 minutes after my hammer. Why the Pre-edit? Did you not see it or did it really take you 8 minutes to type that up?

rapidcanyon · Post Post #761 (isolation #154) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:19 am

"This is going to be a mislynch" said RBD after I hammered. Fake-towntell, I think. Same with Whiskers. I am not sure who but as long as we lynch both RBD and Whiskers, I am cool.

VOTE: Rainbowdash

rapidcanyon · Post Post #762 (isolation #155) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:20 am

One of them is likely the last scum.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #763 (isolation #156) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:23 am

I changed my mind - again. Can we just kill Whiskers?

Unvote

VOTE: Whiskers

rapidcanyon · Post Post #764 (isolation #157) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:51 am

In post 760, yabbaguy wrote:No, not a 2b1s wagon. zabriel contributed squadoosh on a stick
except
to fire one quip that 2b1s was being opportunistic. That's ridiculous to suggest that's a bus.

Basically, Kimor, you've got it all backwards like you did on Day 2.

Vote: Rainbowdash

That voracious defense of RBD from Whiskers... are you saying that was town defending scum? There is only one mafioso left and between Whiskers and RBD, it is far more likely whiskers. Just look back at Whisker's defense of RBD.

Look at 227, 281, there is no way these posts came from town defending scum and my 284 explains it. It was scum defending a player that in their opinion was persuasive/dangerous/"powerful."

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:28 am

Whisker's last post is just one big personal attack with no substance. I don't think it is even worth attacking.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:30 am

In post 769, Name User wrote:
In post 763, rapidcanyon wrote:I changed my mind - again. Can we just kill Whiskers?

Unvote

VOTE: Whiskers

no shut up.

I don't really think that approach is going to work. It would be easy to say I wouldn't lynch PM either and tell you to shut up.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:31 am

Also, if RBD is scum and Whiskers is town, Whiskers would be extremely stupid and will have lost all credibility with me by endgame.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:35 am

If you really are town, we'll see at endgame who was right.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:45 am

Living players:

1) yabbaguy
2) PMysterious*
3) Whiskers
4) 2birds1stone
5) Rapidcanyon
6) Kimor
7) Rainbowdash
8) Name User

Out of the remaining players, I am pretty sure Yabba is town. I think Kimor is very likely town as well. Leaning town on 2birds and Name User. Of the remaining 3, don't have much of a read on PM. I am willing to lynch Whiskers/RBD whichever wagon gets the most support. Maybe PM if we have to get that out of the way.

Pedit: If RBD is scum and you are town, the reasons I suspected you of being scum would be completely rational considering you were defending scum (or in your words, attacking a player who caught scum). No, it is not a "lucky guess" that I derailed the Yabba wagon and focussed on RBD if she is the last scum.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:03 pm

Still keeping my vote on Whiskers btw, he is the absolute best choice for a lynch at this point. No idea why anyone would disagree. His posts are the most obvious scum-posts in this game. If you guys *really* want to lynch a lurker that badly, fine. But other than that, Whiskers/RBD is the way to go.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:13 pm

His defense of RBD mainly, and general unhelpfulness so far in this game. As scum, he usually acts stubborn and obstinate and piss people off hoping that town thinks that scum would never do that. He may say (or delude himself into thinking) that he has no town-meta, but as town, his behavior has a marked difference. He is usually very willing to reason with people and is in general more pro-active about finding scum. Also, after I accused him of buddying with RBD, he started attacking most of her posts showing his need to overcompensate for the earlier buddying.

rapidcanyon · Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:58 pm

So, who would you lynch? If not Whiskers? It is fairly obvious the day would nowhere unless we start compromising on our lynch targets. I presented mine.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #787 (isolation #166) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:05 pm

I am more suspicious of RBD than either of them. We can settle for RBD if we are all agreed.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #789 (isolation #167) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:11 pm

Sarcasm isn't helpful...

rapidcanyon · Post Post #790 (isolation #168) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:11 pm

Sarcasm isn't helpful...

rapidcanyon · Post Post #793 (isolation #169) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:55 pm

I agree that RBD's reasoning for thinking I am town is pretty poor. It seemed more like something scum comes with to justify a townread as opposed to town being right. I'd lynch RD as well. It is a good choice of lynch.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #801 (isolation #170) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:53 pm

I am liking this direction a lot more so, I'll keep my vote on Whiskers.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #807 (isolation #171) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:51 pm

@ Kimor, regarding Whiskers, I already answered why I thought he was scum and showed you links. You weren't convinced but that's your perogative.

As to why I am town, I was the first one to make a case against Sweezy which encouraged 2b1s to push him. I also derailed the Yabba wagon and hammered 2b1s. Also, me-Klick interactions, and me-Sweezy interactions are not scum-scum. I wouldn't just jump on the fact that my buddy called me "derp-town" and try to get him lynched for it.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #808 (isolation #172) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:52 pm

I hammered Zabriel, I mean.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #818 (isolation #173) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:10 pm

I am leaning scum on RBD precisely for her last post 816. I think she was hoping for a response like Kimor's. She doesn't actually point out any real reasons why I am town as I outlined before but rather says that I am a bad player.

I think RBD is a good choice of lynch but the way Whiskers defended her on Day1 is unsettling. Whiskers is a decent enough player and whatever he says, that defense was not town defending scum, so I'd much rather go with Whiskers, and if he flips town, go for RBD next.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #819 (isolation #174) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:11 pm

@ Kimor, it is a pretty bad argument - scum making up reasons for why a townie is town.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #821 (isolation #175) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:55 pm

@ Whiskers, the reason I don't buy RBD/scum and you/town is that for a townie to defend scum that voraciously, they must be pretty bad players. You are not.

I find it SO much more likely that you as scum were defending a townie you personally claimed was "powerful" to get her on your side.

Also, your whole post about RBD taking control of the town is BS. We didn't get the Yabba lynch RBD wanted. We didn't go with the 2birds lynch RBD wanted either and chose to lynch Zabriel (which was good). I don't know why you are portraying yourself as this player who is keeping RBD's power in check where as without you, she will run riot. I mean, me and Yabba had already voted her before I switched to you and you voted RBD. It is almost a certainty that if you die and the game continues, RBD will get lynched next. I'll make sure of that.

rapidcanyon · Post Post #822 (isolation #176) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:06 pm

This is difficult, both your arguments are pretty shitty and I am inclined to think you are both scum, but that can't be right, there is only one scum left...

rapidcanyon · Post Post #827 (isolation #177) » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:31 am

@ Kimor, scumminess is a more important thing to consider than activity. The game won't stall. I think the rest of us are fairly active and skilled enough players to find the last mafia.

@ Whiskers, when you responded to my case on RBD, day 1, you didn't vote me. You didn't say I was scum for making that case. Your sole purpose seemed to be to defend RBD, so it is a defense rather than an attack. If you argued with me just for the heck of arguing, I don't see the town motivation in that. You could have said nothing and let RBD defend herself. So, you pushed yourself in between me and RBD with no intention of calling me scummy - you are now, but the point is, you didn't then.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:26 am

What don't you like about the way I play?

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:27 am

I think you are a pretty good player, I really do and I am disappointed you hate me so much, not just in this game but in general.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:03 am

Whiskers did the same thing in Open 443 where he was scum and he acted outraged that I was tunneling in on him and started attacking me even though I was confirmed town. This made some people believe he was town (No way Whiskers would attack conf-town if he was scum, he would be trying to buddy). But that is just the way he plays as scum so I am convinced he is the best choice of lynch for today.

Yes, Kimor, there are 8 players. You said earlier that Whiskers is the most active player and now you are essentially trying to quell activity. Anyways. I agree that it is now time to let Yabba, NameUser and PM give their opinions.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:27 am

@ Yabba, whiskers has been known to bus. He won a scum game by bussing that I can recall.

Anyways, Whiskers defense of RBD was crazy - think about it. If whiskers is town, I'll be the first to place a vote on RBD with you.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:38 am

In post 837, yabbaguy wrote:
Anyways, Whiskers defense of RBD was crazy - think about it. If whiskers is town, I'll be the first to place a vote on RBD with you.

Oh, I forgot to reply: why is that a scum tactic? I have to side with Whiskers, I fail to see how this couldn't or is less likely to be uninformed Town making an honest mistake.

In one word: Intensity.

Sure, town makes mistakes but if you go back and read the way he was doing it, kicking and screaming and yelling, it is more likely he was doing it to buddy who he calls "powerful." I guess it is

possible

that he is town making a mistake. I am saying it is more

probable

that he is scum.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:54 am

@ Kimor, okay. Not everyone can be convinced. If you don't want to vote Whiskers, fine, but don't be a detriment.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:59 am

@ NU, did you or did you not see whiskers defence of RBD? It is highly unlikely that it was town defending scum. You should go back and read it. I'll go with PM if Whiskers and RBD both flip town which really shouldn't happen.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:02 pm

@ NU, stop tunneling PM. Whiskers has 3 votes and RBD has 2. You gotta make a decision. It is infuriating watching people stuck up on pointless leads. Seriously. In this game, you have to compromise. For instance, I would have preferred to lynch Whiskers over Zabriel because Whiskers seemed scummier, but compromised.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:04 pm

What I am saying is, lynch Whiskers now, if he is town, we will lynch RBD and if that doesn't work, get rid of the lurker slot.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:05 pm

[quote="In post 842, Name User"]I should be studying, so I'll try to make this quick:

Why don't we just lynch PM's slot? It'll take a while to find a replacement, and I wouldn't be surprised if the replacement didn't contribute anything to the game.

I am pretty sure Whiskers is town, and I am pretty sure most people would agree. RC, I hope you've forgotten about a Whiskers wagon already.

Remember when you pulled out that list that Mod later made illegal? Two scum were on the "non-dayvig" list, and we had a townie on the "dayvig" list. Whiskers tried to discredit it even before Mod stepped in.

Only initially to get towncred. He did entertain it as well.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:06 pm

In post 847, Kimor wrote:RC, you cannot determine someone's townishness or not based on their defense of somebody that you seem to think is town.

NU, I was referring to Yabba's last bit about RC paying dearly if he bussed.

After further reflection, I think a PM wagon is a bad play here. He's just lurking. It's not like we don't have plenty of scummy people running around.

Preview edit: RC, you have 3 votes on Whiskers, but I seriously doubt you'll ever get a fourth.

Look, 2birds is not getting lynched today, I doubt there will be a second vote on him. Just try and compromise.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:10 pm

Fine, if he is a mislynch, we will consider that. But we don't know it is a mislynch.

Pedit: yeah, I knew there was no convincing you. You are the most anti-town person in this game.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:11 pm

Okay, it is on the record. Thank you. Name User isn't getting lynched today either, so you might want to help out by adding your vote to Whiskers.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:15 pm

Also, I am not entirely convinced Kimor is town either. The only person I am convinced is town is Yabba. So, it goes like

Town: Yabba
Likely town: Name User, 2birds
Null: Kimor, PM
Scummy: Whiskers, RBD

Pedit: Okay. Maybe I should ignore you.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:18 pm

Whiskers DID consider that theory so he gets no towncred. Really guys, we need another quick hammer like last DP, we can't hem and haw forever. This is what I hate about not being the hammer. Yabba, if whiskers is town, we'll lynch RBD. So, that much closer to lynching her if you switch your vote.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:23 pm

He has 3 votes.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:26 pm

I don't really care about you ^

Not everyone can be convinced and you are one of those people who are determined to persue pointless leads all game.

You really need to think about compromising. Last Day for instance, I really wanted to get Whiskers lynched but settled for Zab and it worked great. At this point, just think about how we are going to advance further in this game. Don't you think it is prudent to vote Whiskers and try to convince us to lynch someone else next day if he flips town just like how I did last day?

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:29 pm

Whiskers has not been pro-town. The only thing he has been doing is defending RBD, making stupid comments, arguing over pointless things. This is NOT pro-town. Get that in your head. If RBD is scum, he has been the most anti-town player in the group.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:30 pm

Yabba, Kimor is either scum or too stubborn. Just vote Whiskers and if he is town, I'll race you to voting RBD next day.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:33 pm

Just a "Fiiiiiiiiiiiine. Unvote, Vote: whiskers" will do and defender can say that we won the game.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:35 pm

I am not addressing you in any of my posts so I don't see why you are responding.

rapidcanyon · Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:36 pm

I am starting to think kimor is the last scum. How can anyone possibly be so stupid? It is impossible. But I'd lynch Whiskers and RBD before Kimor.