Open 457: Double Day Unlimited - GAME OVER!

[shos]

VOTE: Buldermar

caught scum post 6 so scummy mcscum

[shos]

I think that 2-3 votes are fine too. anything more will just be useless(half the town being voted) but yeah, you understand.

[shos]

vote: venrob

a very easy way to put someone in L-1 with an excuse for didn't mean to.

[shos]

I think that it is worth mentioning that my RVS vote in *POST SEVEN* was questioned TWICE already in serious posts. This looks odd, townies normally don't look at stuff like those and ask about it.


I also think that we should establish this:

JUST SAYING

UNVOTE

or UNVOTE: DOES NOT COUNT.

this should be VERY WELL sitting in everyone's mind, so that a 'whoops, I hammered by mistake, didn't notice his unvote didn't count' cannot happen. this unvote thingie is pro scum since it may cause confusion, so from now on anyone who's going to do that wrongly, I'm going to take that as scum, laying basis to the future. ("oh but you can see that I consistently goto confused....")

[shos]

Are you aware that you put Dashie at L-1, Ven?

Not untill you pointed it out.

that is exactly the reason I voted you. pretending to not have known that you put someone in L-1 - that is exactly what you prepared when you voted everybody. I don't think it was an honest mistake here.

oh MAN so much to read since that post ><

I'll catch up from post 59+ tomorrow.

[shos]

Its really opportunistic attacking on a move I expected at least one pony to pull, and then lo and behold the VI pulls it. Sure its a horrible move but I think its going to happen either way

Why is it more opportunistic to attack an opportunistic move than it is to be the first opportunist? Also, do you think your potential vote on me or shos would be less opportunistic? Why? I just can't really follow your chain of thought here.

that.

@Venrob - Why did you order the "Vote All" list the way you did?

this is a good question too. List of players:

[01]buldermar
[02] ChaosOmega
[03] Empking
[04] Mr.K
[05] Rainbowdash
[06] shos
[07] uctriton
[08] Venrob
[09] Voidedmafia

list of votes:

VOTE: Voided
VOTE: buldermar
VOTE: Chaos
VOTE: Emp
VOTE: Mr.K
VOTE: Rainbowdash
VOTE: shos
VOTE: uctriton

so it's 9-1234567. possible scumteam V & V?

[shos]

Just saying hi. (reference to last run)

I think this does a little bit in regards to explaining why I'm at the top. At least, I think it does.

please explain how? if you're referencing to another topic, please link?

[shos]

let's see what he has to say about this, eh? let's. vote remains there till I get satisfactory answers.

[shos]

oh man you did it again?!

*sigh* I'll read and respond later..

[shos]

*sigh* read it, and I agree with buldermar. also voided, how comes you ignored me as a person who things Venrob's RVS is scummy?
@91: this was all good and nice so far since it was morelike setup specs, talks about optimal and suboptimal play in these conditions etc. such discussion can only do good for town, but limit it to short posts and/or miniwalls or spoilers, since it distracts from scumhunting.
@92: Rainbow tell me please oh please do, are you seriously letting this go with the thought of 'well, SOMEONE would have done that anyway'? You also haven't responded to the fact that the votes are not ordered as they should be - they are 91234567. or perhaps you agree with void's sort-of-explanation?

any reasons for that vote? and why exactly am I a good lynch and

who the hell is chaos

nvm.

[shos]

wtf.? I got a 'the submitted form was invalid' message when trying to post? :S

[shos]

way to hammer nonchalantly?!

[shos]

VOTE: uctriton00

wtf, he hasn't posted for 2 days, only 5 posts all game, wtf.

[shos]

VOTE: uctriton00

wtf, he hasn't posted for 2 days, only 5 posts all game, wtf.

[shos]

blown out of proportions? are you aware that the guy hammered him before he even had a chance to respond? before he posted 6 posts in the entire game? and SO QUICKLY INTO D1?? you have to be either reaaaaaalllllly stupid to do that(no offense yes?) or plain scum opportunist. he didn't even think that venrob was scum - he plainly said that 'from experience' sheeping is the best(???).

and quit it with the ponies, this freaks my out >_>

Also I got a townread on Voidedmafia from that flip.

[shos]

So what you're saying is that it is very legitimate for scum to quickhammer at any time. you understand. it's not great but there's nothing wrong in shutting a person up before he manages to speak.

VOTE: Rainbowdash

[shos]

are you kidding me?
I was the second voter. I was not the one who put him at L-1, and even then, I do not have to unvote in such a case. pressure is good; I was expecting him to answer you know, perhaps you skipped my post of LETS WAIT FOR HIM TO SAY WHY HE VOTED THAT WAY. don't you dare blame me for the fact that he quickhammered.
You were not the one who said it was out of order; you asked him why he voted in that order, you didn't say which. *I* was the one who compared that order to the list at the first post, and I was pursuing that later too. even so, what would it matter if it was you who brought it up? you never kept pushing anything. you keep saying that bla bla null tell bla bla null tell; well I clearly specified(among others too) that I do NOT think it is a null tell, and, once again, I WAITED FOR HIM TORESPOND. are you seriously saying that a quickhammer on a person before he gets the chance to explain is a legit idea? cuz if so that's a reaaaaally really dumb pony.

you say that the problem is that I waited till I get answers? does it matter if I expected any answers? even if he came in and said 'my dog shit on my keyboard and this is how it went out' it would be better than just a quickhammer. it just robs the town of information. I wasn't expecting VM's answer, and I wasn't expecting any other answer. I wasn't expecting, period. the thought is 'lets see what he has to say and react' and not pre-think anything he might say.

the 'tell' was not showen as null by VM, since the question wasn't directed at him. it's like me asking you why your mother thinks that ponies are cats. you cannot answer this correctly, only your mother can. anything you might guess about it - is completely unrelated.


You're probably just not getting me correct. I'm not angry that he got lynched. I'm angry that he got QUICKLYNCHED.

[shos]

that was probably the stupidest reason to vote in my entire life. "I was wrong that game, so I'm probably wrong here too"? seriously?

and emotion? on you? lolno. emotion *could* be said about my rainbowdash vote(wrongly) but on you, nonono. read the game it's not that long since the hammer. appears to me that your peg on rbd as town is once again wrong, lol.

[shos]

first quote - that's exactly the point. it was NOT arguable, at all, if that was a correct thing to do. is there anyone here who thinks that hammering was correct in that situation? ignore the flip for a sec - would you have hammered? no? why not then?

how is it obvious that the order shifted? do you remember the OP by heart? O_o I went to look at the OP order to see if there's any difference, you know. if the voting order was 14526739 it wouldn't be suspicious at all, and the question that you brought up is good for this order too. that could be a neatly done trap if you know, he had the chance to respond, and if nobody else was posting. you built a nice trap, but you didn't tell all the others about it, so how could we avoid ruining it for you? I saw a scummy thing and pointed it out and asked the question. I had no idea you were aiming at trapping him. so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The good thing is, tho, that this trap is something nice that you couldn't just invent afterwards, I think, and I'm gonna UNVOTE: Rainbowdash for it.

the other tell is the first tell that I mentioned - which you neglected by default, remember?

"quickhammer was bad but not horrible". tell me, what IS horrible, please? a quickhammer from a townie on a townie is literally the worst situation I can imagine on D1. once again, when I ask a question, I don't always think about what he will say. I only think AFTER he's said it. no use of speculating. the mind goes like that: see something fishy-->point it out/ask about it-***->get an answer-->respond to it. the *** is where the chain was stopped by the hammer.

Stop calling it null tells dammit, I UNDERSTOOD THAT IS YOUR OPINION, AND I DISAGREE, NO POINT IN TAKLING ABOUT THIS ANY FURTHER. what's wrong with you, dammit ><

I can definitely explain why it's a scumtell. when I'm scum, I know who my partner is. so soon in the game I don't remember all the names of all the others. so if I plan to vote all as part of my soopersicrit plan of hiding the bandwagon vote within, I shall vote everybody. as a start I will vote the names I remember, aka, my scumbuddy. then I don't remember any more names - so I go to the OP and copy. it's this simple. understood?

if you're basing a read on a meta of just one game, drop it now.

Why is chaos null-scum? he posted literally once.

[shos]

tell me more about how chaos is scummy please

[shos]

is there anyone here who thinks that hammering was correct in that situation? ignore the flip for a sec - would you have hammered? no? why not then?

I would have hammered - in this setup, wasting an opportunity of hammering someone you find to be scum is extremely bad.

elaborate? why do you think so?

[shos]

I will under no circumstances postpone hammring the person I think is the most likely to be scum at

any

point in this game.

Vote: Buldermar

[shos]

I see that as a scum tell.
bulder just gave supposedly reasoning for why uctritons action was not scummy, and by the way, he also prepared the ground for a quickhammer at anytime in the future. it preps not only for a quickhammer, but also to a 'VOTE:theguywhoputhimatL-1' because that guy KNEW that I was going to hammer, so effectively, when he put X in L-1, he bla bla bla.

[shos]

bulder, any quickhammer robs town of information and possibly makes a mistake that town could avoid doing. just like uctitron did.

138 is a good point, and I'm keeping my two votes where they are exactly.

[shos]

Do you consider that a scum tell or are you just voting for anti-town behaviour?

No matter how I spin the quickhammer-reasoning combination, I can't see why I would not vote uctriton00.

VOTE: uctriton00

This is exactly what I was waiting for. Mr. K, you're scum, which in turn almost guarantees that uctriton00 is town.

VOTE: Mr. K

Also, *what* exactly is *this*? what were you waiting for that you got in that post and not in others' posts?

[shos]

any particular reason other than 'not participating' to look specifically on Mr. K? I mean, it's not like he's the only one who isn't active.

[shos]

mine

lol

no it's not policy lynch, but it is very well near that, and if you're town, you should never do that.

[shos]

uctitron's 160 - do you have any point in analysing that first wagon? I haven't reread day 1a, but from my memory, I can say that my and empking's votes were legitimate. I dunno about the first two, but that hammer was awful and has no justification. "what if this is venrobs plan? that someone unvotes" are you serious? seriously? I mean seriously? wtf.

Bulder's insistency on 162 is stupid. he unvoted me when he hasn't had any vote on me, and when he noticed that, he unvoted empking, you're grasping straws which are of no help at all.

wow uctitron is just a really terrible player isn't he? post 166 is so amazingly bad. you say that I am scum since I am suspecting Buldermar who you think is town; AND OF COURSE I must be scum because I was on the wagon THAT YOU QUICKHAMMERED, IDIOT?! and for finale you say omgus?

that pair needs to be lynched so bad. SOOOO bad.

ninja'd by mr.K. he's saying exactly what I say, one post earlier, AGAIN DAMMIT xD

Mr K is town.

[shos]

no offense intended. it's just that the hypocrisy - come on. you blame me for being on the wagon that you yourself quickhammered with no reason?

any other response for my comment?

[shos]

as a start, he is(was) going to answer the question of why he was voting in that order. for example - he could say 'the only one I played with is __ and that's why he's on top. Then, I quoted the OP' or anything alike, dunno. but either way- lynches get us info, yes, but not having them doesn't mean we will NEVER have them. you got us the info quicker, yes, but in a bastardly way. if you waited more info could have been outed, and THEN we would have a lynch and get exactly the same info.

You insisting on that so much makes me wonder if scum would really be like this. it's either newbtown actions, or scum, pretending to be. I'll think about it further somewhen.

scum would care to defend others for towncred. the fact that you asked this question makes it more likely that you're newbtown. that by no means makes bulder town.

I'd say that if mafia were on the wagon then it's either you or any of the first two, whoever these were. you're right in that being on your wagon is easy, but it doesn't make everyone on it scum, and it doesn't make everyone not on it town(re: bulder).

[shos]

Mr. K I think it is obvious that key word in his post is ONLY. that is the ONLY content, as in, not enough.

[shos]

Checking in - still need to read through pages 8-9. tomorrow hopefully

[shos]

Erm, the hammer.?
I still need to catch up
Later today

[shos]

so there's loads for me to read, starting for page 7(8?) and I'm on it.

[shos]

kay so I've read/reread everything untill the top of this page. uctitron and rainbowdash still look the worst to me. empking is lurking the hell in this one.

I tried to delay it but can no longer...must...read...walls -_-

[shos]

from this exchange of walls I'm removing my scumread from bulder. I disagree and totally think the opposite in some concerns, but he seems like wierd town who genuinely believes what he is saying.

UNVOTE ALL
vote uctitron
vote rainbowdash
vote empking

and here are the comments(not on the walls they pretty much conclude it all in them)
@207: uctitron actually did it. that's a start. bulder did not. more would be, uctitron said that he did it without even thinking that the target is scum - which doesn't work with what bulder approves.
There are other reasons for both players, you know.

I can't believe ChaosOmega is in this game. GET THE FUCK POSTING. THREE POSTS IS WHAT YOU DID. THREE.
@210 totally lol. you shuold ask the contrary, what is THE SAME in my reasons to want yall dead. well starting from now bulder is not on my lynchlist. you are just horrible imo, read back what I said. ucti is either gambitting scum, or a reaaaaheaaally bad player which I don't want to get to lylo with.

@empking: same as omega, GET POSTING. you've read the game and participated in the lynch sheeping me, and practically said nothing the entire game. I'd policy lynch your butt despite your regular playstyle.


pedit: go back and read.

[shos]

So you think that rainbow is scum, and ergo, you vote me? wouldn't it be wiser to have a rainbowdash flip first EITHER WAY?

[shos]

you are an elder, and you should know what I'm talking about:

A says that B is scum, and therefore C is scum too.
if A then votes C, that is a logical fail, REGARDLESS OF ANYONE'S ALIGNMENT.

what the hell are you doing?

[shos]

in that case you *may* have legitimation to do that, but we are no where near deadline.
At the moment we are the only ones voting for Rainbow, who is only one vote behind me(if you count your vote too) since the last votecount. So tell me, why is it that what you're doing is voting on C, instead of convincing people to vote B? no scumhunting on your end at all?

[shos]

well because if D flips town you don't necessarily learn any useful info about C, so the mislynch is completely useless and could have been avoided.

scumhunting: give me your own case on why you think rainbowdash is scum. show me that you're not only sheeping.

[shos]

I'll help ya:
if you lynch me, and I flip town, does your opinion about rainbowdash change?

and sheeping me of course.

[shos]

you are intentionally avoiding. stop it.

[shos]

real discussion. why is RD scum?

[shos]

So you have two votes, one on a tied-with-leading wagon, and both are based on gut.

moar votes on the people I vote -_-;;;

[shos]

Maybe Empking is purposely being quiet and non-provoking

point being..?

[shos]

no you're not. I voted you guys before you voted me -_-; except empking, but his play...*sigh*

You and buldermar have presented VERY VERY different posting style, look at his ISO and at yours. He has discussed like a real player, not just sheeped, gave arguments and scumhunted. Yes, I thought all those stuff were not what I think they are now, but if you really read his ISO, you really feel the town mind behind the posts. disagreement on playing theory is nto a scumtell. actually utilizing what you think tho, like ucti did, that's an incredible one imo. so the reasons that bulder is town are completely unrelated; and the reason ucti is scum is completely unrelated. just the fact that you're trying to put you three in the same basket shows me that you're scum. you're not saying that I'm wrong, you're just saying 'hey this one extremely specific argument can also be used against bulder!', trying to discredit me. you're scum and you know it, and you're caught.

Now what the fuck is Equinox related here?

[shos]

eh fuck this shit, I've said what I had to say. there's no point in me arguing against a million people when the rest of the people just lurk.

who's there.

[shos]

I've not read the last 2 thirds of 241, too tired to argue already.

and I'm not getting the joke >_>

[shos]

o rly funny hurr hurr

rainbow, what distinctions are you talking about? do you mean 'what makes you different than ucti'? he quickhammered a townie who he did not even think was scum, without even looking at the wagon, on like, page three iirc. you didn't.
why is bulder town and you are not? read his iso, post by post. it's long, yes, but that only adds to it. tell me if you think such a massive ISO with that content can come from scum.

I'll read your earlier post in a sec.

While chaos is lurking, empking is active lurking, and voting.
241:
I did not say that I argued about theory with ucti. I did with you and bulder, not with him. with him it is not theory. he MADE IT HAPPEN. he did not think 'is it protown to hammer?' and get a wrong answer, he just hammered at will, with the reasoning of 'I think he is town, so lets hammer cuz I suck'.
am I not pushing you and buldermar? read the fucking day. I pushed on buldermar even more than I pushed on ucti, and I'm pushing you like, constantly. who cares if you guys are 'easy' cases? if you look obvscum, then I will vote you, and I don't care if that looks bad. you also seemed to ignore, I think, what I said at bulder: by saying that a quickhammer is ok, you lay ground for another quickhammer, and for an attack on the one hwo put them at L-1(you knew I was gonna hammer). does that work with ucti? don't think so, no. you are trying to put all of you in the same basket so that they will support you against me.

quote me please where have I said that, you are scum because(you call me scum because(I'm not trying to lynch you)) please. where the hell did you get that from.

you post is just bullshit. you seem to not be reading anything I post. you just repeat the same and I repeat the same answers. I'm done with this discussion. let's hear some others - Voided, instead of posting useless posts like 245, perhaps you should tell us what you think about everything too? and for god's sake maybe empking will cooperate for once as well?

[shos]

No sir, an additional paragraph of 'why you think that way' needs saying too.

[shos]

nonono, I'm very fine with rainbowdash scum. I want a paragraph of why *I* am scum in your eyes.

[shos]

which means..? and after telling me what it means, tell me where?

[shos]

can you stop writing codes? I don't understand shit from what you say. you haven't answered me what is 'infuriating' and what do you mean 'I would not doublecheck my letters'?

[shos]

OHHH lol I was thinking of letters as in like what we send in envelopes hehehe. thought it was some kind of english proverb hehe. mescuzzy.

Sooo...you think I'm scum because I was annoying, and because RD is not voting me? :/

[shos]

it doesn't seem that way, I was dead tired and it was like 2 am, THAT is the reason I didn't answer, lol. I answered not because you prodded me, but because I was awake

Look, I have other reasons to vote rainbow. the fact that he doesn't vote me does not make me scum. I have really no idea why he doesn't vote indeed, but I won't cry for not being voted. either way; I'm not scum, and I'm pretty sure that rainbow is.

A list of updated reads:

buldermar - town. there really, reaaaally is now way any scum would play the game as he did up until now.
ChaosOmega* - lurkerscum.
Empking - I'm starting to doubt myself about this one. it does seem to be his playstyle that is enormously annoying, and I fail to understand why the hell he really is voting me, but I'm hesitating a tad.he's an 08 player, I just can't see this, which I consider horribad reasoning, as his scumplaystyle. it doesn't fit. so mind says scum and gut says town.
Mr.K - not hearing too much of this one. he wasn't looking bad last time I checked iirc, and hasn't posted since. so null.
Rainbowdash - Scum Scummy McScum of Scumland the Scumth. or an incredible moron, no offense
uctriton - same as above.
Voidedmafia - seems to be very careful, not taking concrete stances iirc, but is logical. null.

meh meh meh.

[shos]

Open 457:

Double Day Unlimited

The deadline for the current phase occurs in: (expired on 2012-11-06 12:00:00)

Full Cast

[01]

buldermar

[02]

ChaosOmega

[03]

Empking

[04]

Mr.K

[05]

Rainbowdash

[06]

shos

[07]

uctriton

[08]

Venrob

[09]

Voidedmafia

Spoiler: Active Players

buldermar
ChaosOmega*
Empking
Mr.K
Rainbowdash
shos
uctriton
Voidedmafia

* indicates a prod

Spoiler: Flips

Venrob -

vanilla townie

lynched Day 1a.

Spoiler: Quick Links

End of Day 1a.

...asterix lol

And uh, I made that list without going through all the ISOs so you'll have to excuse me for erring about you. If I ever need to I'll ISO you too lol. but yeah, good to hear that uct is scum.

[shos]

flipping a 180 and buddying me is not getting you any comfort from me.

[shos]

why is it important for you to have only one vote? O_o

[shos]

@all others: do you think there's a chance that BOTH rainbowdash AND empking are scum?

[shos]

Unvote: uctitron

one of these two if not both.

[shos]

Unvote all
Vote: Rainbowdash

[shos]

gonna need some more time to catch up, sorry that I've neglected a tad lately. probably tomorrow.

[shos]

K I've read up fully and I totally stand by my Rainbowdash vote.

two specifics:

VOTE: Rainbowdash
You're not trying to find scum, you're just trying to get someone lynched.

So... im going for the easy lynch by backing off shos... who I have a case against... who I would have put at L-1... with bulidmar calling him scum and not voting... who said he would hammer anypony at L-1 who was a scumread...

yeah...

Maybe im just not good at this whole "just trying to get somepony lynched" thing or something. I dunno.

You did not want to put shos in L-1 because buldermar - who hadn't really shown indications towards going after shos - could quickhammer him. Nevertheless, you put (or actually you didn't but you thought you did) Emp in L-1 (#272) with uctriton00 - who has already proved himself to be a loose cannon and who just expressed suspicion towards Emp - not voting. This just doesn't add up and yes, it does feel like you were hoping for uctriton00 to hammer.

This is especially true since Buldermar even specifically said that he thinks that I am town, and that quickhammers are OK *ONLY* if the lynchee is someone you think is scum. that is both different than what ucti did, which puts the emp vote to much worse positions, AND it negates your point on why not voting me. superscumflailing, and Mr. K is town.

second point:
question: Voided, you are voting me. why? O_o

[shos]

question: Voided, you are voting me. why? O_o

[shos]

I asked WHY you vote me, not WHERE.

[shos]

Oh man, that's funny.

LAWWWLLL

I asked WHY you vote me, not WHERE.

I know. It's in the quote.

Read, please.

...so I'm being voted for not changing my reads based on others' reads?

[shos]

lol let's give ucti the honor xD twice in one gameday.... XD

[shos]

Let's look at context, shall we, Shos?

VOTE: Rainbowdash
You're not trying to find scum, you're just trying to get someone lynched.

So... im going for the easy lynch by backing off shos... who I have a case against... who I would have put at L-1... with bulidmar calling him scum and not voting... who said he would hammer anypony at L-1 who was a scumread...

yeah...

Maybe im just not good at this whole "just trying to get somepony lynched" thing or something. I dunno.

Shos is town outside of Chaos-scum probably.

flipping a 180 and buddying me is not getting you any comfort from me.

Note how Dashie never indicated she had you at a townread nor was trying to buddy you, yet you almost deliberately misinterpret this post as her turning 180 in her view on you. Note how VERY CLEARLY WRONG you are in this regard, as if you're trying to discredit her, not any case she has against you.

made it larger for you to see.

even if it wasn't there tho, are you serious that, with all the content in this day, you would choose to lynch ME for THIS? in all seriousness?

[shos]

I don't get it, is 'outside of' another english way of speaking which I don't understand? if that is what dashie meant, wouldn't she write 'shos is town only if chaos is scum'?

and if that is onlywhat tipped you back, why did you not answer me when I asked, WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME.

[shos]

yep, if you posted a case link me, if not, build a case~

[shos]

about 130 - I don't understand; are you saying that I'm scum because my reasons for voting Venrob were null in your opinoin? O_o
245 - which questions have I avoided? tell me and I'll answer. that knock knock joke had really nothing in it, I have no idea what either of you's point was.
82 - er..we've already been through this like a dozen times I think... >_>

if that's your "case" for thinking I'm scum, you should rethink, lol.

that 180 and buddying is not a push with Dashie you know. there's realy no pressure there, I was just saying that it did not change my opinion at all. I'm really not following you.

[shos]

in 241 dash asked why vote empking over chaos. the answer is the difference between LURKING and ACTIVELY LURKING. the latter is worse.

can you really not see anything wierd at all that he ordered his votes 912345678??


I'm not getting you on the last one.
firstly, I did not vote with that post. my vote was there from long, long ago.
secondly, tell me how is it pressure in these events:

1. shos votes dash.
2. dash votes shos.
3. dash rambles bla bla buddies and unvotes shos.
4. shos says 'that is not going to help you'.

????

thirdly - I wrote, and I quote (without the ..., they're just for parting the sentences)
"flipping a 180 and buddying me....... is not getting you any comfort from me."
this could be rephrased, if you will, and tell me if I'm wrong here, to:
"doing what you just did................... is not getting me to change my opinion on you"

continue please.

[shos]

eh I have no idea what I was thinking about empking lurking lol, maybe confused games dunno, I'll get back to it somewhen when I feel like~ :<|

and it's perfectly normal that he ordered then 912345678 then, yes? not singling someone out at all, yes?

it doesn't matter if it's rambling, point is that he says something, and that something does not change my read. I honestly cannot see how you're seeing me sticking to my thought as a scumtell.

AND NO FFS WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND
THIS IS NOT A RESON FOR CALLING HIM SCUM IT IS COMPLETELY UNRELATED. IT IS SAYING SOMETHING, STATING A FACT, AND IT IS NOT ANYTHING THAT SUPPORTS ANYTHING AGaINST DASHIE.

*sgh*
I don't understand if you're really so dense or what. no hard feelings yea? but I'm really lost here. WHERE THE HELL IS READING COMPREHENSION. Dash has done bla bla bla over tha last 300 posts which all together apparantly caused people to vote him; then he posted one post which I bother to say is not changing a thing and you think that I'm pushing against him there..I've kinda lost my point or yours, this is just becoming idiotic.

[shos]

exp taught me to not ignore details, and the odds of randomly picking 912345678 are tiny. why incentive did town have to singling you out?

"even if it's to a small degree, you may and could be using this as another attack on Dashie."
...which is a reason to vote me? something that I may be using, in YOUR opinion, makes me scum?

yes I see dashie as scum, completely unrelated to that specific post.

everything. that post did not change anything in my thinking, ergo, it can be considered as bla bla bla.

[shos]

holy crap, this whole page is a really, realy big shitstorm, like, Sandy-size. not one piece of logic was given this page.

only thing I have(or want, actually) to say is that Dashie, your read on me as you wrote in 375, is based on that I read you as scum and then changed to town. except I never did that. at all.

[shos]

shos - Changed read from scum to town on me

of course she's not talking about me...

and I'm not only discreditting dashie here, I'm discreditting all of you, I read this entire page iwth huge questionmarks on my head.

[shos]

yea.

[shos]

Short cuz on phone
I voted u before u made that post
Mr k is null

[shos]

2 days to deadline.
my preferable lynch: still Rainbowdash
me next one: Uctitron (I think I'm even going to VOTE: Uctitron)
and the next would by now be voided, although empking is pushing close.

Buldermar is town.
Mr,K is null/leaning town.
chaosomega/shotgun are lurking and need to be lynched. shotgun posts on other games and not here. why not, VOTE: drmyshotgun

end of thoughts report.

[shos]

holy crap, this whole page is a really, realy big shitstorm, like, Sandy-size. not one piece of logic was given this page.

only thing I have(or want, actually) to say is that Dashie, your read on me as you wrote in 375, is based on that I read you as scum and then changed to town. except I never did that. at all.

Hmmm...

Sorry guys, I'm going Memento here. Imma read from page whereever-I'm-at-atm, to page 1.

lol I laughed at this loudly

gunny you just ended a game(we won!) so you have more time! go reread quick quick and vote scum

[shos]

Phobeposting again!
Mr k is definitely winning the fight lol

[shos]

WOOOOOAAAAHHHH OMFG I THINK SANDY JUST SENT US SOME MORE SURPRIZES~!!!! IT IS DA SHITSTORM AGAINNNN

...>_>

Guys your talk in the last two pages had absolutely no purpose, it seems. twas like arguing for the sake of arguing, as some people on this site say.
~~~
having a nolynch is probably the stupidest thing we can do. if we're not nearing a scumlynch, the scum will just nokill and let us mislynch twice more instead. I've already listed my votes, my thoughts, etc etc, I'm reading EVERYTHING - and NOTHING changes ANYTHING.
~~~
Gunny, quick question, were you serious with the townreads based on happiness/funnyness?

[shos]

deadline is coming. people should start voting their minds instead of digging up crap. anyone who thinks they might be lynched should flat out share all their reads.

[shos]

Agreed.

vote: shotgun

[shos]

I'll be back from my LA tomorrow

[shos]

Yeah I'm back. how comes nobody's posted almost nothing :S

[shos]

are we officially in mylo now, btw?

[shos]

that is, lylo since we have two lynches.

[shos]

obviously this is what I meant emp.

bulder I'll think about it soon after I eat and respond in other games.

[shos]

well this is what I meant.
now let's get some reading done here

[shos]

Alright so I've been reading, cana ynoe ffs post the whole knock knock joke that was supposed to happen somewhen? :S //offtopic

~~~
k so I see that my vote on shotgun is basically leftovers since both my best scumreads died and flipped town :\ and this vote is for lurking which is irelevant now. so as a start

UNVOTE: ALL

Now.
empking and voided are the next on my scumlist, but emp is voting voided..
those damn flips, I'm having a hard time dealing with them

I think I'll just vote them both.

VOTE: Empking, Voidedmafia

[shos]

actually UNVOTE: Voided
VOTE: Drmyshotgun

[shos]

getting town vibes from the last posts in voided's ISO, and gunny's case on him looks like crap in disguise.

[shos]

huh?

[shos]

well I totally disagree about the first part.
the second part is HARDLY the whiteknighting that you're trying to accuse him of, in my opinion. so yes, I think it's kinda crap, and/or forced crap. I played quite a few games with you, and when you scumhunt, you usually do it nicely, not like that.

[shos]

yes I did, but RBS is dead now, so what does it matter?
it is not white knighting imo, so no, that doesn't bother me. if he continues to not scumhunt that will tho, trust me.

I believe that I did justify it, read again. after that you started being active I removed it, but then I saw your crap in disguise and voted you.

has a lynch happened? :S

[shos]

holy shit it has.

are you scum empking?

[shos]

ah posts 499 and 500 was before the mod editted post 498 >_>

I'm willing to vote bulder for the quickhammer. but will need to reread again, since this is officially lylo :\

my case on gunny was basically him lurking. then he started to not-lurk so I removed my vote on him, but then I reread his case on you and it was such bullshit that I voted him.

yes, a one-liner. at the moment I'm in need of a full reread since lylo. nobody vote.

alive are:
voided
gunny
bulder
and..?

[shos]

Mr k.

this is going to be hard for me

[shos]

pshh, way to take off responsibility!
nobody vote anyone, anyone at all.

I'm going to come back here in 1.15 hours and reread the entire thread.

[shos]

OR, you know, I have a life outside the computer? having stuff to do doesn't make me scum, lol. I designated around 1 hour for me to do something that is not mafiascum, is that really so bad?
I don't know why you're 'not expecting much' of me, that whole second line seems idiotic and points to confirmation bias if you're town.

this is not a classic buy-some-time tactic; the best buy-some-time tactic is just to log out and read without anyone noticing, or change that property that allows people to see you online wherever that is. you're being stupid, there's no reason for me to NEED to buy time even if I were scum right now.

and what is 'damn scummy' and/or fake in my posts? if you want to see me in heat, go see Micro 61. I was in FUCKING MORDOR. nailed it as scum like a boss. you're underestimating me mate I'm good as scum, not as town. I did not say gimme time to read, I said that I will read. in one hour. it's not like I was gone for 2 days. you're being idiotic.

and are you SERIOUSLY saying that telling people not to vote is a scumtell?? wtf is wrong with you? O__o;;

~~~
I'm reading now.

[shos]

anyone has a link to the earlier run of this setup?

[shos]

nvm got it
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22824

[shos]

Voided's town play fits this game very very much

[shos]

man I'm so townie for post 51

alright I negate a bulder/voided team. when you are scum you don't have the will to actually go into long discussions and walla and coloring with your scummate because you know it is of no use and that you both are just trying to pretend. so they're not scum together. in the first 100 posts, a Mr.K/buldermar scumteam looks fitting. they haven't mentioned each other once and are practically together in all they do there.

I also think that voided is town for his D1a activity. he looks like he is truly scumhunting and investing time in the game, genuinely trying to prevent the mislynch, and he thought the same as me.

damn, me so townie. I would totally lynch rbd again, and I'm glad that ucti isn't alive today.

post 139 is the first time in the game where bulder says anything at all about Mr. K. in that post, he says 'this is what I was waiting for' about a reasonable post and votes. ODD.
bulder then goes to explain that he looked at Mr K because he wasn't participating, and voted because he jumped on ucti wagon. I push him on this and he says that Mr K is the only one 'pretending'. then votes voided OMGUSa fter being voted.

I'm so town, DAMN. wish I could play with me and have me conftown two slots lol xD I totally support anything I said there.

Mr K is asked directly for a read onbulder and avoids answering by saying that he's *waiting* and that bulder 'does look scummy a bit'.
then bulder gives the worst possible answer, an answer that is countered by 'DAT IS ALL LIES'(paraphrasing lol). AND DESPITE ALL THAT, Mr. K deflects the topic and votes rainbowdash. then when RBD calls on that he quickly unvotes and conversation ends with bulder giving him '10 points' for a useless offtopic post. (193).

all this happens while voided keeps looking town and making sense in my mind. but gunny's slot is lurking and has only posted once in the first 200 posts. so it's not enough for a certain vote. I'll double ISO these soon.

taking a small break. I stopped in start of page 9.

[shos]

alright fuck. so remember where I said that bulder/voided doesn't make sense because too much input? well page 9 starts with that with Mr K. this sucks. either my tell is incorrect or bulder is just not scum with both.

goddammit. I'm on page 13 and all my scumreads are dead and town.

voided still continues to be town on my end.

post 317 negates any way od gunny/Mr. K scumteam. There was no reason for that to be said if they were scum together.

rbd said: if any of {Mr.K, empking, chaos} vote anyone not in this group tomorrow(aka today), lynch them immediately. let's see if that happened.

dat 'finally' from MrK when chaos is getting replaced makes me rethink again. perhaps he needed his teammate to talk at night.? to support him and/or make quickhammers possible?

bulder, in 347 you were CONVINCED that I am town. what made you flip the 180?

mr K can also not be scum with voided for that page 17. this means that just one of those trio are scum, leading to their partner being SHOTGUN. yaaaaaaaay. *keeps reading*

[shos]

Mr. K, I'd actually think that the fact that I was on all the mislynches is a towntell, lol. I suck in wagon analysis tho so if you want to give us stats for who was on which wagon you're welcome.
we'll see about that last quickhammer when I get there in my reread. fact is that I was careless to put my L-1 vote there, I didn't think about that at the time and when I saw the 'lynch' post by the mod before he editted it I was wtf did I jsut do

anyway continuing

[shos]

the catchup post 426 by shotgun he thinks that I am town, and now he is superagainst me. what made you flip a 180 here?

post 437: the easiest and most commonly used tell in your guidebook. seriously. you're saying this to me. I played with you like a thousand games and not once have you ever used it. buddying at its best(or worst? lol)

and in 447 he says he is willing to hammer RBD. despite that in the same page (in post 426) he said that he likes RBD and he has good scumhunting skills. LE CAUGHT SCUM IS CAUGHT
and then he hammers.


well that is the end of day 2,

[shos]

then comes gunny's idiotic case on voided which I have already adressed.

then he attempts to discredit me!! I said that I'm back and how comes nobody posted and he said 'you are the one to talk' despite the fact that I was on LA. how comes I didn't see this before. just laying grounds for his attack on me now it seems.

dunno what I was thinking when I said voided was scummy with empking. I can see why empking but looking at it now, voided is the last one I'm going to vote. truly unfortunate that I put emp in L-1 without noting tho. for fact: I almost always unvote from wagons at L-1 and/or attack people for putting others in L-1 and stuff. it should really be clear that I wasn't focused when voting him and didn't notice it was L-1. I just remember people asking so I'm stressing this.

@buulder: were you aware that your "sheeping RBS fwiw" vote was a hammer?

[shos]

OKAAAY so after nearly 3 straight hours of being on this game, I'm quite confident in

VOTE: drmyshotgun and I'm going to sleep. not going to be here in the next 15~ hours so hope I'm correct.

[shos]

UNVOTE: shotgun
well Mr. K was browsing this forum for 20 minutes and then disappeared without posting. I figured that 'I wont be here for tons of time' will get him to try get a quickhammer with pal but he completely ignored. trap avoided?

so I'm going to sleep now and probably in the morning I'll put my vote up again after you guys talk.

Fixed tags.

[shos]

you were on the list at the buttom that says *users browsing this forum* -__-; if you don't refresh a page here for 5 minutes, correct me if I'm wrong, you're off that list. and you were there.

[shos]

also, this is all you have to say about what I wrote?

[shos]

remind me what 'your mind' is? who do you think is scum?

[shos]

voided, can you explain in your own words why you think I am scummy?

and are you sure enough for me to vote gunny right now?

[shos]

VOTE: shotgun.

[shos]

well. I'd appreciate if the scum between you two voted me so that I can vote you back and then prove why you're scum, rather than going over both ISOs.

[shos]

bulder, in 347 you were CONVINCED that I am town. what made you flip the 180?

For these reasons:

I'd like to hear why he willingly changed his vote to Empking on my request without presenting a case. After the flip he was also very quick to declare himself willing to vote me for the quickhammer, despite the fact that I in my request of him voting Empking explicitly stated that I intended to quickhammer. This seems planned, as if he had already planned this when voting Empking for me.

We're equally responsible because I explicitly asked for you to vote so that I could hammer. The difference is that you try to solely blame me for it whereas I blame you only for blaming me and not explaining why you willingly met my request.

this was hardly sheeping you for a hammer, lol. I did not really think you would quickhammer. I was rereading and got to the conclusion that I wanted to vote empking by myself, as I said in post 488. those are my posts after your post:

obviously this is what I meant emp.

bulder I'll think about it soon after I eat and respond in other games.

well this is what I meant.
now let's get some reading done here

Alright so I've been reading, cana ynoe ffs post the whole knock knock joke that was supposed to happen somewhen? :S //offtopic

~~~
k so I see that my vote on shotgun is basically leftovers since both my best scumreads died and flipped town :\ and this vote is for lurking which is irelevant now. so as a start

UNVOTE: ALL

Now.
empking and voided are the next on my scumlist, but emp is voting voided..
those damn flips, I'm having a hard time dealing with them

I think I'll just vote them both.

VOTE: Empking, Voidedmafia

next post:

@buulder: were you aware that your "sheeping RBS fwiw" vote was a hammer?

shos will you vote empking for me? I'd like to quickhammer.

What do you think, Sherlock? Also, your claim that you were "unaware" that you put him on L1 is a far stretch because I explicitly asked for you to vote him so that I could quickhammer. I'm undecided if I can actually trust this - it's quite a big thing to simply miss.

well I don't claim to be sherlock, I've really missed the fact that it was L-1. but anyway - that quickhammer thing - I never took it seriously. I thought you were being funny in reference to the start of the game; I never expected you to *actually* quickhammer.

I have to say I'm quite surprised you're asking me these questions, considering that I was the one who lead the lynch against drmyshotgun who indeed flipped scum.

Going off what I can remember from the top of my mind, Voided defended RBD to a degree that suggested a priori knowledge of alignment. However, shos little stunt trying to blame me for the quickhammer of Empking despite the fact that it could never have happened had he not willingly voted knowing that I intended to hammer (or at the very least should have known this) also looks bad.

can you link me to voided hardcore defending? I'm not in the mood for rereading again.

Where were you, btw, Buld?

My reads still stand, more or less. I won't deny that what Shos said about Buld's interactions with Mr. K are suspect, but with Mr. K flipping town that lifts some of the suspicions I'd have coming into today. Couple that with my already-present townread on him does make the choice for today a simple one, but I'll do a reread of Shos to make sure I'm not wrong.

does that mean that you think *I* am scum or *him*? O_o

I'll probably be rereading more tomorrow but if I can't get to then Saturday

[shos]

well I'll reread and probably ISO some later. this lylo is going to be hard.

although I'm at 2/2 in town lylo wins in the last week

[shos]

yes bulder, really. there are 400 posts and 27 RL days between those posts, my memory is not perfect of all posts in the game. I've consistently repeated that quiclynches are idiotic and anti town, and the fact that you did this just proves me right. HOLY SHIT GIMME A MOMENT

[shos]

I see that as a scum tell.
bulder just gave supposedly reasoning for why uctritons action was not scummy, and by the way, he also prepared the ground for a quickhammer at anytime in the future. it preps not only for a quickhammer, but also to a 'VOTE:theguywhoputhimatL-1' because that guy KNEW that I was going to hammer, so effectively, when he put X in L-1, he bla bla bla.

OH MY FUCKING GOD I AM SUCH AN AMAZING AWESOME GUY

[shos]

oh my god I'm such a prophet

[shos]

'VOTE:theguywhoputhimatL-1' because that guy KNEW that I was going to hammer, so effectively, when he put X in L-1, he bla bla bla.

you're just fulfilling my words.

[shos]

it could never have happened had you not

willingly put him on L-1

knowing that I was going to hammer

.

because that guy KNEW that I was going to hammer

, so effectively,

when he put X in L-1, he bla bla bla.

'Tis alittle help for you to get to comparison

[shos]

hey look, can you stay online for like half an hour, I've just got back from basketball under the rockets(lol) so I wanna take a shower

pedit: the other pill? wut?
I did want that lynch, you know; the only shake-away I have from it is that it was done by a quickhammer

pedit again: yes of cours eI'm still denying! I wasn't aware it was L-1!! and should I repeat the part where I thought you joke-refereced ucti??

why the hell would you ask me to vote so you can quickhammer instead of VOTING. that is not logical from town.

[shos]

Yes, I have "forgot" this. what the fuck is wrong with you, this was literally a month ago, do you really expect me to remember every single thing??

why did you wait for me to vote before you? why didn't you jsut vote?

pedit: okay, gimme a minute to get you some quotes

[shos]

I don't think I ever played 5 newbie games >_>

[shos]

Alright so I've been reading, cana ynoe ffs post the whole knock knock joke that was supposed to happen somewhen? :S //offtopic

~~~
k so I see that my vote on shotgun is basically leftovers since both my best scumreads died and flipped town :\ and this vote is for lurking which is irelevant now. so as a start

UNVOTE: ALL

Now.
empking and voided are the next on my scumlist, but emp is voting voided..
those damn flips, I'm having a hard time dealing with them

I think I'll just vote them both.

VOTE: Empking, Voidedmafia

actually UNVOTE: Voided
VOTE: Drmyshotgun

getting town vibes from the last posts in voided's ISO, and gunny's case on him looks like crap in disguise.

Sheeping RBD fwiw,
VOTE: Empking

Vote Count

[04] Empking - Mr.K, Voidedmafia, shos, buldermar

[02] Voidedmafia - Empking, drmyshotgun
[02] drmyshotgun - Voidedmafia, shos
[01] shos - drmyshotgun

Empking

has been lynched. He was a

vanilla townie

.

It is now Day 2b. All votes have been cleared.

With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-11-27 04:00:00)

yes I did, but RBS is dead now, so what does it matter?
it is not white knighting imo, so no, that doesn't bother me. if he continues to not scumhunt that will tho, trust me.

I believe that I did justify it, read again. after that you started being active I removed it, but then I saw your crap in disguise and voted you.

has a lynch happened? :S

holy shit it has.

are you scum empking?

holy shit it has.

are you scum empking?

My facepalm at this was so good it made an actual, audible noise. Which is directly inverse to how good this post was.

Fill up that case on Gunny, Shos. Can't be a one-liner.

ah posts 499 and 500 was before the mod editted post 498 >_>

I'm willing to vote bulder for the quickhammer. but will need to reread again, since this is officially lylo :\

my case on gunny was basically him lurking. then he started to not-lurk so I removed my vote on him, but then I reread his case on you and it was such bullshit that I voted him.

yes, a one-liner. at the moment I'm in need of a full reread since lylo. nobody vote.

alive are:
voided
gunny
bulder
and..?

I'd like to hear why he willingly changed his vote to Empking on my request without presenting a case. After the flip he was also very quick to declare himself willing to vote me for the quickhammer, despite the fact that I in my request of him voting Empking explicitly stated that I intended to quickhammer. This seems planned, as if he had already planned this when voting Empking for me.

does it look like I sheeped you? does it look like I knew that a lynch was so quickly acquired? and are you seriously claiming that I had planned to jump on you the moment you quickhammer for quickhammering? try Occam's razor for a second, there's this elaborate theory, and there's the option that I didn't know it was L-1. what's more likely.

[shos]

why did you wait for me to vote before you? why didn't you jsut vote?

Because I seem to be the only one here willing to quickhammer.

and why is 'quickhammering' so important to you? why isn't just 'hammering' good enough? why did you want to rob town of the ability to discuss when someone is at L-1, and not let him defend?

[shos]

Well I'm back from the shower and you're not here.
there's one thing I noticed: neither of us is voting the other, we're just talking. this makes me want to look at voided. I'll do that now.

[shos]

have I said that I missed it? no. I have said that I didn't think it was serious, and didn't know I was putting in L-1. why the misrep?

I'm now going over gunny's meta as scum to see if he busses etc.

[shos]

holy shit gunny have you like EVER got a scum role???? your last 1234123123 games are all town! :\

[shos]

oh there's a big difference between this and that. I've explained myself enough already. that was exactly my point in the start of the discussion D1; this attitude is the perfect way to remove responsibility off yourself and push it aside to the other guy(being me). remember when we talked with ucti about this? and he said how comes I vote him and no bulder, and I answered that he *actually did it* and not just talked? well that. I'm not taking any responsibility on the empking quicklynch.

anyway, the vnegeful where me and him were scum together ended in 3 pages, that's not enough. can you link me to that Science cuz I didn't get to it somehow?~
I'm out of time today, so I'll do so tomorrow or worst case Sunday.

[shos]

phonepost-referred to buld

[shos]

holy shit gunny have you like EVER got a scum role???? your last 1234123123 games are all town! :\

This makes you look a lot more scum.

...why? O_o
open up his topics list. there are plenty of topics there, and none of the ended games are gunnyscum except for the vengeful.

I'm not taking any responsibility on the empking quicklynch.

You may not, but you're responsible for overlooking/misinterpreting/ignoring/misunderstanding/failing to understand/forgetting what I've explicitly stated in posts.

you may think as you wish. if you're really town, or scum who actually believes so, we can discuss this quickhamer-is-good-in-this-setup theory of yours later.

What is your opinion on voided?
voided, what is your opinion on bulder?

answer these questions without using PoE of course.

[shos]

*sigh* this lylo is going to be long and hard to determine >< can anyone just vote me and make my life easier?

[shos]

so damn hard isoing so many posts ><

[shos]

Lol I completely forgot about this game. voided is almost due prod

1. this game, yesterday; I reread the entire game and decided that there were only one scum within {Mr. K, bulder, voided} and therefore voted gunny successfully
2. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23707 Charge mafia; I was wrong over there but we managed to pull it off and win, me gunny parama were towna nd redpanda was scum
3. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23748 DemonCore and me won this lylo as scum; I was reaely involved in this game in literally each one of the days

[shos]

Right so I've been rereading Voide's ISO and will go over bulder's soon. meanwhile, stuff I bumped into and/or want to say:

Voided's ISO give me no reason at all to vote him. if he is really the scum, then his play is wonderful.
now:

I will under no circumstances postpone hammring the person I think is the most likely to be scum at

any

point in this game.

So...You wouldn't wait for a person at L-1 to answer any remaining questions if you think they're scum?

This is not an issue in this setup because there are no power rules. I don't get why this is so astonishing difficult for you to comprehend.

He could still be town? THere's a

reason

that the idea of "declaring intent to hammer" has been given out by most ICs before. One reason is to allow for potential claims (which is obviously not applicable here), and the other is to actually allow for the person in question to actually answer anything directed toward him (if there is anything), and/or to allow other players to discuss things prior to the mod potentially calling an end to the day as soon as the hammer is thrown down. Consider it as last-minute affirmation of reads, or something like that.

I mean, if you think someone is scum and want to hammer, and then they produce a town-like response to a question, certainly you'd have to reassess your opinion on the player at the very least? Depending on the strength of the response, you could almost think they weren't scummy. (depending again on the strength of the town-like response as well as the strength of your read on the player; obviously if you REALLY think he's scum then nothing short of a townslip or conftown reveal of some sort will change your mind, but still.)

bulder, any quickhammer robs town of information and possibly makes a mistake that town could avoid doing. just like uctitron did.

Also what I wanted to say.

I was thinking to myself earlier today whether I should vote Mr. K, but decided to wait and see if he would jump oni the uctriton00 wagon. As expected, he did - and without much clarification as to why. He hasn't been participating much in ongoing debates. Furthermore, I have some fairly strong town reads.. on you and Rainbow in particular, and possible Voided.

But, he did clarify as to why: He thought about the hammer and the reasoning behind it, and couldn't see how any way he looks at it sounds good/townie. Why are you ignoring this clear reason?

Unvote: Shos
Vote: Buldermar

Void, the issue with postponing hammering is that others might unvote while you still want him hammered, which could lead to yourself getting lynched instead. The last person you want lynched in this setup is yourself, no matter your alignment. You're assuming that waiting for the person to respond to one question will often change the game drastically - I find that it influences the game to a much lesser degree than do allowing others to unvote and allow for the possibility of yourself getting lynched instead.

I didn't ignore his clear reason, I just didn't comment on it because it was obvious that it would be the reason he'd be using as scum. It's an easy go-to solution that figures to be widely accepted based on previous conversations in the game and doesn't require much deliberate thinking - I'm very convinced that he's scum.

"the issue with postponing hammering is that...which could lead to yourself getting lynched instead".

As town, when you can hammer, in ANY game at all, do you EVER think about you-possibly-being-lynched in your reasons to hammer or not hammer?

So lynch shos already.

Well, lessee:

I think you're town (mainly PoE. Shouldn't have done that quickhammer, but...)
Mr. K is a middling-scum read (aka not one I'd put my faith in on LyLo)
that just leaves Shos and Gunny. I still believe in my Gunny case more, but it will depend on how Shos develops his own case.

P-EDIT: Unless Mr. K comes in with a surprisingly good post, all we're waiting on is if Shos will deliver on his Gunny case.

So I have successfully delievered my case on Gunny and got him lynched. that's regarding the Pedit.
And you think Bulder is town via PoE and therefore by PoE it left me and gunny?? how does that work??

[shos]

shos, can you link me to some more games? Maybe 3 where you're scum and 3 where you're town. You don't have to survive in them until LyLo. They don't have to be the most recent. I cannot disclose at this time what I'm looking for.

just how far back do you want me to go.? I really don't have that many games. just go over my topics.

*sigh* this lylo is going to be long and hard to determine >< can anyone just vote me and make my life easier?

I was focused on other things so I forgot to ask, but why would that make it easier for you? I mean, I get the general principle, but since you've indicated before that you'd cross-vote with the person who voted you I don't really see how that'd make it easier.

well obviously the fact that one becomes conftown tells me who the scum is, so that I need to work only on proving he is scum, and not on finding who he is first.

will start bulder's ISO now.

[shos]

Forgive me if an explicit rule exists; I couldn't find one. What happens should two people at L1 receive a vote within the same post (e.g. if more than one person being voted by ChaosOmega in post#20 were on L1)?

why did you ask this?

VOTE: Venrob

That's L1.

...eh wait...didn't you have a reason to (not put people in L-1 because you want others to do that and quickhammer)??

buldermar gave no reason but announced l-1.

Voting everyone arbitrarily is suboptimal. I give you credit for knowing why.

and here you...what? you 'give him credit for knowing why' you're voting him? can you explain to me why you were voting venrob??

Voided - don't answer this question for him

Because determination of alignments should never happen based on seing someone eagerly analysing the thread during nighttime.

Of course not. No one really does that here, anyways. Hence why this is related to one's personal commitment that these games require and not anything related to theory.

Bulder: From this, correct me if I'm wrong, I infer that you do your analysis in nighttime, right? so what did you get to during the last night? or is that the you-blame-me-for-your-quickhammer part?


ninja'd by voided, a sec

[shos]

Your case on Gunny (and my rebuttal which helped in that regard) was good. I won't deny that. However, both of Gunny's cases (on me and on you) are way too forced and way too contrived, his case on you moreso than his case on me. His play when he replaced in was very off-putting and clearly didn't give him the towncred he wanted (hell, IIRC no one called him town for that), so he hoped to make a case on me to at the very least get some towncred and/or get a mislynch put through, either in his stead or through such a link to me via the case.

you do realize that you yourself said that three of the points in his case which were around half the case are things you agreed with? so how comes now you say that it was too forced and contrived?

However, when THAT fell through (the case itself IMO was shot down easily, you (Shos) thought it was bullshit and so did a couple others), Gunny turned to his scumpartner with a desperation case, not really meant to get towncred from what I can tell, but more to try and give you a leg up come LyLo with the possible expectation that you could at least stave off suspicion to finish the mislynch on me that he wanted.

I'm not getting this. what are you referring with 'THAT'? I thought you were referring the case on *me*? but if THAT fell through and it made him build the case on me, it means that THAT and the case on me are different things. gunny did not do anything particular in his game iirc except going after me in lylo. my reread was completely irrelevant to his case; eventually I voted him mainly because I figured there was only one scum between you three, so how does his doing give me towncred in any way?

Besides, a scumteam of gunny/Buld just feels so outlandish. Sure, posts like 514 give a good distancing link between them (Gunny's apparant reason for unvote was because Buld pushed for the quickhammer, which feels fairly odd coming off his case in his preceding post), but there's not really a whole lot of interaction between either of them. Buldermar himself doesn't directly talk about or to Gunny at all while the latter's alive, only mentioning in 558 how Gunny's 513 could be fabricated (which I'm already suspecting it is, on top of how shallow it is). It could be some kind of attempt to get away from Gunny post-mortem, but why not do that while Gunny's alive? Even moreso, why, again, mention him now when Buld didn't do it at all D2? It doesn't really make much sense to me, and as a result a Gunny/Buld scumteam is off the table.

he would do that when gunny's alive because by then my case on him was already made. his partner was going down anyway, so he softbussed and then bussed for the cred. the kill on Mr.K is wierd tho, since that means 100% there was bussing, which means nobody gets cred from that lynch(I'dlike to think that I do since I created the case but doesn't look like it).

other than that - a shos/gunny team does not look outlandish? IIRC, it was me who always pushed for prodding/replacing chaos. a lurker/flaker scum rarely gets caught until they start talking, since people usually don't like to policylynch, and it's obvious that he survives because why would scum kill him. chaos did literally nothing this game; only post 20 which is nothing. I really can't see how a me/gunny team works better than bulder/gunny :\

[shos]

You'll have to excuse me for not remembering gunny's case on you. I'll make my reading~

@second-to-last quote: him=gunny.
@last: my point is that I really can't see anyone working well in association to gunny; so I don't understand why you think that bulder/gunny is more unlikely than me/gunny. mainly comes of frustration, there's no real logic here..

[shos]

ah crap I lost my post ><

anyway I said that I went through gunny's ISO and it appears that the case on you was even more crap than the one on me, basically just 'he kissed ass'. and yes it was before the case on me >_>

what I lost my post for was that I noticed how bulder is barely mentioned in gunny's entire ISO:

I'm willing to vote bulder for the quickhammer.

Lol nope.

this and

So lynch shos already.

Hmmm...

UNVOTE: All

this is all the times he is mentioned.

[shos]

As town, when you can hammer, in ANY game at all, do you EVER think about you-possibly-being-lynched in your reasons to hammer or not hammer?

Yes, unless I'm virtually a confirmed town. You give me the impression that you're surprised?

well duh? if you're not being voted and/or not a counterwagon, why on earth would you hammer-to-not-get-lynched???

[shos]

erm bulder, answer my questions please

[shos]

It also seems that gunny is almost never mentioned directly in bulder's ISO. either when he quotes me, or VCs, lol. I searched for 'gunny', 'shot', 'drmy'.

It also seems that bulder was on all mislynches and wasn't on the scumlynch. interesting. I wanna go through Mr. K's thoughts and see if the NK has any info to give us.

[shos]

...well there goes nothing, created myself more wifom, lol. Mr. K explicitly said he thinks bulder is town and I am scum. also said that voided was not scummy, "so - town, I guess".

responding to bulder in a sec

[shos]

Can you expand for me on why you voted Venrob?

[shos]

also got another one in second glance - at 2: so you're saying that with empking, you'd thought that someone will unvote if you vote(who?), and with venrob, on D1, on page 2, you thought that nobodyw ould unvote??

pedit:
So in the empking case, or generally in the case where you say that if you think target is scum then you should quickhammer, you always had a strong townread who is likely to be lynched instead? can you tell me who in the empking case?
the questions 1-4 which you've answered.

another pedit:
so why is that voteworthy in your words?

[shos]

It also seems that gunny is almost never mentioned directly in bulder's ISO. either when he quotes me, or VCs, lol. I searched for 'gunny', 'shot', 'drmy'.

It also seems that bulder was on all mislynches and wasn't on the scumlynch. interesting. I wanna go through Mr. K's thoughts and see if the NK has any info to give us.

You make it sound like I was being active and decided not to vote. This is not the case - the scumlynch happened quite rapidly and I was not online at the time.

you weren't online for 12 days in which gunny was present?

[shos]

@second-to-last quote: him=gunny.

But that still doesn't answer why there was practically no mention of Gunny by Buld until LyLo. Regardless of whether or not it was mentioned for analysis purposes of any related kind, the distinct lack of explicit dialogue between the two doesn't really make sense.

...that is what I'm saying...even in lylo gunny is only mentioned by bulder after he is dead.


pedit:
but you said that you'd quickhammer BECAUSE you want to prevent a strong townread/yourself from being lynched.

[shos]

seriously just two clicks is searching for you. here's some links:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22640
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23756
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23414
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23748
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23332
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23707
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23529
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23430
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23638
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23623
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23126
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23098
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23490
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22933
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23433
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23307

*sigh*

[shos]

I'm sorry, you are talking about the lynch, I'm talking about the fact taht you've never mentioned him when he was alive.

pedit: ehh true. point withdrawn.

[shos]

so why is that voteworthy in your words?

can you answer this btw?

[shos]

Can you expand for me on why you voted Venrob?

He voted everyone and put a person on L-1 without announcing it.

so why is that voteworthy in your words?

can you answer this btw?

I considered him skilled enough to understand all of this. This, in conjunction with the fact that I did not think he necessarily would be wary of how he was perceived by me and others, made it more likely to be something he'd do as scum than town in my opinion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is where you answer why you voted Venrob.

Why, exactly, does that make him scummy? He could be town making all those votes to joke around before unvoting as many as necessary (or, to point out what he actually did, unvote all of them) to get down to business just as much as he could be scum for it.

Yes, but the behavior itself is anti-town and by giving him credit for knowing this, it becomes scummy too. Take this as an example: he (accidently or not) put a person on L1. This is bad when it's not announched, because it allows for scum to quickhammer and pretend to be unaware, and, alternatively, may lead to a town accidently hammering and actually

being

unaware. Why did this happen? Because he voted everyone.

If you want to argue that he's scummy for jumping on multiple bandwagons while seemingly not realizing that said wagons exist, that's fine--in fact, that's what I find suspicious. Otherwise you're arguing a bad point that should be dropped.

Answers in

this color

.

for comparison..

[shos]

VOTE: Venrob

vote: venrob

a very easy way to put someone in L-1 with an excuse for didn't mean to.

VOTE: Venrob

That's L1.

Oksy, i didnt notice that was l-1. Do these 3 voted me. Mr. K said nothing, shos gave reasoning, buldermar gave no reason but announced l-1.

VOTE: Mr. K
VOTE: buldermar

I'm sorry, something is still wrong on my end of this story.
you put venrob at L-1 for voting without saying it was L-1, because...it is scummy because it allows scum to quickhammer 'by mistake'.
then when quickhammer happens, you say taht you support quickhammer.

????

[shos]

UNVOTE: Empking
VOTE: Rainbowdash

Also that's L1, so make sure to quickhammer.

and another one..

you were an integral part of literally all the mislynches, and took place 0 out of 10 in the scumlynch.

[shos]

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood(not to say misrepped of course) what I meant.

there are, according to you, two ways for someone to get away with a quickhammer.

1. OH! it was a mistake!
2. it was not a mistake! I *wanted* to quickhammer cuz I thought he was scum!

..so according to you, the second one is totally legit, and the first one is legit too - otherwise you wouldn't try to avoid scum doing it.

and there starts the flailing! explain.

[shos]

but it's okay either way, so why the difference?

[shos]

you are now during the flailing, hehe. when you've flipped scum you'll see hehe.

You said that you don't want people to quickhammer by mistake - amd this way, you wouldn't want to lynch them, because it was by mistake, even though it could be scum in disguise.
You said that you DO want people to quickhammer with intent - and this way, you wouldn't want to lynch them, because in this setup, you'd quicklynch all your suspects.

so either way, anyone who quickhammers is not someone that you'd lynch. so if you announce L-1 and scum quickhammer knowingly, it's ok; but if you don't announce L-1 and scum quickhammer unknowingly(supposed), then it's ok too; do you still not get this?

[shos]

ok so I might have inferred some things that you did not *literally* said, but that just sounds fine you know. I'll rephrase what I meant in order for you to understand:

from what you said I understood that if a player quickhammers and claims to have not known he is quickhammering, that counts as a null tell, or in other words, people can get away with it easily.
from what you said I understood that if a player quickhammers knowingly and claims to just have a scumread on the lynchee, then null tell again - so people can get away with it easily too.

this clashes with a few things:
from memory, uctitron hammered with no reason at all, knowingly, and you protected him as townie. soooo that means you did not think that the quickhammer was opportunistic.
you voted venrob to L-1 since he did not say it was L-1. does this mean that if he voted everyone and said (L-1 on bla) you'd let it slide?

now about your post up here: funny how you posted it twice, no? you wanted to remove the "to me this is essentially you claiming scum" and put the last two lines instead. so what happened? didn't want to make a commitment and vote? THIS is to me you claiming scum. you knew that I'm not sure who to vote and didn't want to help me by voting me. shame this got you voted.

VOTE: Buldermar

also, I did not strawman you, lol. there was nothing to refute you know <_< I built a case against you flailing around all your quicklynch policies and you tramped.

voided, when you see this, post to show you're not scum, kay?

[shos]

you shittin me, voided is scum? :S

[shos]

meh. very good game voided. damn you, but you played very well and deserve this win.

[shos]

I think that voided gets MVP for this game, played exceptionally well as scum. I have no problem at all losing as town, I usually suck as town anyway =\ so congrats, thanks everyone and the mod, off ya go into my signature