Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Justin Timberlake]

Man these games are old. Jessie only has like 5 posts in one of the town games too.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm not even sure these are that useful. Well there's a couple of things that I find interesting. I want to read them in more depth, though.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm heading to bed, I'll have a proper look at Jesses games and go over Jesse/Soul one more time tomorrow.

[Justin Timberlake]

Have a headache tonight and won't be around tomorrow or maybe the next day so v/la too.

[Justin Timberlake]

Deadpool; Re: Post 1094 about the only line in Oversouls Post 455 I felt was really really genuine in that post was the "Do you want me to show you our hydra logs because I will do if it will stop you from acting all high and mighty like this", I felt a lot of the other stuff was very over-the-top and him directing aggression and frustration with me is something I still cannot fathom given that I hadn't spoken to him. I don't see how Post 750 is a town-tell at all, asking 'Am I scum for X" is relatively null. I also don't understand what I'm missing that you and apparently Thor are seeing with the logic for your town-read on Post 902, if they still thought Piggy was scum there'd be no need to question Thor or suspect Thor there at all because the game would be over. There was no real sense of eagerness to find out if it was over that there was from a lot of other people, specifically Tammy and you guys. When someone is lynched with one-lynch-ends-game for scum losing town are always very much praying that it is over whereas scum can't fake that well and instead pre-plan the next days lynch and Souls comment to Thor there reads as that.

A. Buddying in reference to the votes being next to each other.
B. I've made my suspicions pretty clear. I could ask OS to write a wall case but honestly I just don't want to.

I still don't understand A) I don't know if it's because I'm still somewhat asleep but what does buddying have to do with anything they've done or their votes being next to each other? Explain it clearly for me please. I rather you do B) if they're the only pair you think are possible you would have confidence, confidence means you would know there's a lot of posts and linkages that would create a strong case, show me them yourself if you don't want Oversoul to do it. I have no issue with what C) was anymore since done the reading into that pair and don't think it's plausible either.

Although curious on what are all the results of the meta searches? That and I'm still waiting to hear reg's reply on the rest of my meta since I don't remember it).

I've got the afternoon and night fully unbooked tonight so I'll be finishing up all of the meta and PoE reading then.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'd rather you take a deep look at my Deadpool-Town case and PoE partnerships before you spend time focusing on meta.

[Justin Timberlake]

Sure. My only reservation with absta's play at this point is how he goes from this to this. This shift in confidence in his Voided scumread is a little jarring.

I think it's just the case of his initial comment being based of what he remembered of Voideds play and the second one being based on him actually going through Voideds ISO. Think that change of opinion with more information added (ISO comments that people often forget) is actually a very natural change.

The broken link that was 993 was meant to say Post 903. But yeah, seems like you guys are roughly on the same page as me at the moment.

[Justin Timberlake]

Jesses frustration towards Soul for 'making him out reads/thoughts before he got his information' in Post 167 reads as very genuine and points against them being partners and his 'you forced me to out something that wasn't even related to you' in Post 173 also comes across as genuine and points away from them being scum together. Their discussion about Jesses read on Sixty in Post 208 and Post 210 is another thing that points against them being partners. Jesse says 'Their rage seems fake' in Post 519 and vote on Soul in Post 639 but moved to vote Thor not long after. His recent reads post though in Post 1038 where he says that if Soul/Deadpool/Cerulean are scum then they're going to win means he now apparently has a strong town read on Soul and the change from scum-read on him towards strong-town read on him has no backing whatsoever. It's as if he forgot that he was bussing and then turned around town-reading them so he has an excuse not to have to push them. Soul on the other hand have a had a town read on Jesse for most of the game and his comment in Post 870 of "does Jesse work with anyone other than Piggy as that's how it sounds" comes across as inside information. That being now that we've gone through Jesse and everyone and he actually only works with them as scum I can understand how they reached this conclusion but I don't think they'd have done the reading into it to rule out all other partnerships with him at that point as town, reads as pre-planning reasoning not to have to vote him later down the line. So yeah, I'm really undecided on whether they work or not so want your guys opinions on this massively. Faraday barely helped with his, fking troll don't even know why I hydra with him.

What all the partnership-work has shown me though is that Thor is a massively suboptimal lynch today - only person he works with as scum is N meaning voting N is more likely to hit scum than voting Thor plus the fact that I'm still finding his play to be fairly townish and I remember Faraday agreeing with me on him about that last night when we spoke. It also means that Jesse is likely a suboptimal lynch as he doesn't work with Thor or N and can really only work with Soul if he works with anyone so odds are I think my vote is going to be on one of Soul or N today. Want to look into Jesses games properly though and see how he interacts with partners in detail and then want to touch on Ns town meta to see how close this is and lastly finish up metaing Soul. Then probably need to do one last re-read through them. And wow, I just realized I have hours worth of work to do. Will probably do a massive chunk of the reading tonight and finish it up tomorrow.

[Justin Timberlake]

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

What the fuck? Buddying is when someone attempts to suck up towards someone else to gain favour with them. "Votes being next together" means voting each other? That's not 'next-together' at all. And I don't think Thor and Jesse have interacted in a 'nice and helpful' way at all.

[Justin Timberlake]

Okay, so if you realized that Jesse and Thor didn't work back as a pairing and thus realized that Jesse has to be town to you because of no partner interaction that work as scum then why didn't you mention as much in your Post 947 where you ruled out Jesse + N and used that as your reasoning for voting Thor?

And now I'm confused as fuck, I continue to not understand what the fuck you're talking about re; buddying and votes being close to each other. HOW does votes being the same and close together be an act of buddying and if you're saying that X voted Thor so Jesse wanted to buddy X so he voted Thor too then how would that even work as anything. I really really cannot understand a word you're saying about this whole thing. Slow it down and link me to post numbers. Who are you saying buddied who in what vote and what scum motivation was there attached with it.

[Justin Timberlake]

Soul, so I take it you mean by 'buddying' that you mean Thor and N were voting Jesse together then? If so then that's not 'buddying as the scum motivation behind 'buddying' is to make the person buddied less likely want to lynch the buddier. Here's the proper definition if you're interested.

N, if you want to try and change my mind and suggest a pairing that involves Deadpool you're going to have to convince me what is wrong in Post 1072.

[Justin Timberlake]

What I've got from Jesses scum meta so far: In Open 256 his only mention of his partner were to list them as a FoS but never went into them or voted them, they were always the 'lesser scum read'. In Open 252 he states a scum-read on CES his partner saying that his play is antitown but refrains from voting due to not being confident enough, busses Furcolow last second when he has to and never really goes back to CES. So think his meta is scum-reading his partners but having it weak enough that he never has to actually follow through with having them lynched. Also shows he's willing to hammer and buss partners when they're dead meat so his vote on N this game rather than Sixty is a point towards him being town. I couldn't find scum qts in either game though, seems they weren't posted.

But yeah, growing more and more convinced that the play today is either Soul or N.

[Justin Timberlake]

I think I'm going to take a break for the night. Finished most of the reading off, just N and Souls meta to finish.

[Justin Timberlake]

Thor, I want to know who you think fits as Jesses partner. And please don't give me a "Only want to find one mafia" response.

[Justin Timberlake]

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

And you think this is scummy? (Or makes them more likely scum together why?)


BAMF

[Justin Timberlake]

Sig should be showing now. Yay!

[Justin Timberlake]

A. Define buddying. Mine is when two people just obviously connect with each other in thread in a nice/helpful way. The votes being next together is buddying.

And you think this is scummy? (Or makes them more likely scum together why?)


BAMF

I already said why in the first post I quoted where this started. They want mislynches most right now. So being willing to connect more to push for two mislynches works. Especially when neither really is pushing the other nor does it look like they plan to vote the other.

~Mehdi

Okay. I agree. Vote N, I'll vote him and then Ceru can hammer. (Since I found thor the townier of the two)

[Justin Timberlake]

Um, why? COME ON~ Live a little.

[Justin Timberlake]

if you don't vote n i won't flirt with you

[Justin Timberlake]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23569 Empire I think REGFAN wants you to take a look at this as it's Soul22222222227's only hydra game. he's gonna be reading it later when he stops partaking in the rather fun activity of watching cricket (lmao cricket)

[Justin Timberlake]

And Faraday I'm still male.

~Mehdi

It's not gay if it's in a 3 way

[Justin Timberlake]

Regfan will wear a dress. It's close enough.

[Justin Timberlake]

Thor, while I can understand the 'not partner hunting' in other games, with this being a white/black flag game where scum lose if two of them are lynched scum cannot afford to let their last partner get lynched so there's a lot more information to work with on who does and doesn't work as partners.

Soul, I don't mind if you post them together or separately, as long as they're posted sometime today. I think I understand what you're saying re; them voting together now, just don't find it to be any real tell - they can also be voting together because they have the same scum-read so it's really null.

Empire, I found Souls play in that game to be a lot more emotion-based and I do think a lot of their play here barring Oversouls rants are mechanical and robotic but I skimmed through their game last night at about 2am and want to do a proper read through of it later. Also glad to see you're right where I am re; partnerships that work. Out of all of them I'd say the one I'm the most most most confident in never ever being the case is Thor / Jesse - it's really not possible for Thor to have voted N and told Jesse to join him on N so he could push and buss on Jesse for the rest of the game, it makes zero sense whatsoever which means as long as you guys and deadpool are town, which is the case then lynching Soul and N make this game a fairly certain win. Uh, about Post 1152 do you guys actually have a scum-read on Thor? Because Faraday and I both think he's town.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'll go into the town read on him in more detail in about half an hour when I'm not half paying attention to the cricket at the same time.

I don't think Thor not wanting N lynched is that big a thing considering that he's pushing for Jesses lynch instead and has been pushing hard for Jesse for days now and given how stubborn he is that's natural from him.

[Justin Timberlake]

It's one of those things that is true if they're scum together but also makes sense if Thor is town.

[Justin Timberlake]

(The wanting/not wanting N lynched thing)

[Justin Timberlake]

Interesting.

(Fuck off Ned)

[Justin Timberlake]

436 looks bad.

[Justin Timberlake]

Going to make a pot of tea and I'll settle in and read the cases in detail. Shouldn't take more than an hour or two to go over it all and the meta links.

[Justin Timberlake]

hey is f-16 fighter jet guy caught up yet

[Justin Timberlake]

Your N case is far better/filled with more relevant points. A lot of the thor case is super unconvincing and looks like you're stretching to find reasons after deciding he was scum or something. It's also too long.

[Justin Timberlake]

Oversoul can you link me to a game as scum where you made a huge case/ like that or even a case if such a one exists.

[Justin Timberlake]

nvr mind i'll go look i guess. FUCK

[Justin Timberlake]

N have you played elsewhere or are you as new to mafia as your join date would suggest?

[Justin Timberlake]

Soul - Have you guys only been conversing in a document this game or been using AIM / MSN / QT ect? And if you're only using a document this game like last game how much of the document would you estimate consist of Oversouls thoughts?

[Justin Timberlake]

Regfan - why is our gender set to female?

[Justin Timberlake]

Cerulean, you're going to have to wait until tomorrow for me to explain my Thor town-read, procrastinated and got distracted far too long today.

And I think the last two hours of reading and conversation that I've done have actually confused me more than helped. But anyway here's what I make of the cases on Thor and N - Mind you there's still a bit more reading to do. It almost feels like this game is an entire novel of reading.

---

There's only a few points from the N case that I find that valid, I still need to do the meta comparison on him though so the whole "Too context driven / tone ect." issue I'll have to focus more on in the morning but I don't think his comment in Post 436 of being annoyed that we replaced in and posted more walls is a scum-tell at all nor do I think it contradicts his stance in the other game. I think the point about him calling it a town vs town fight and not reading into it in Post 513 holds quite a bit of merit though, not something that I like at all. I don't think his Post 647 is a scum-tell either, when he was stating 'as bad as Sixty' I think he was referring to their blitz hammer. I don't think his asking of an explanation for a Deadpool town read in Post 1054 is a bad thing at all, I do want to hear his response towards my explanation for it but I also don't think his attempt at elaborating into why he thinks Jesse and Deadpool are a scum team in Post 1117 is that bad either.

I went back through his ISO too trying to relay thoughts of Faraday and he's just trolling me back, lesson to learn; never trust the Irish. There's a few things that I'm leaning towards being town-tells though, want to hear others thoughts on them. 1) Attacking Ceruleans reasoning for town reading him in Post 241 feels like a minor town-tell, not sure the scum motivation for trying to kill the town read on them. 2) His backing down of suspecting Piggy in Post 533 and Post 647 with a partner lynched as scum he'd need whatever mslynch bait there is and him backing down on his scum-read on Piggy saying that Sixtys case on them makes him waiver would be anti-productive when he could easily just continue to pretend that he thought she was still scum. 3) His 'fake scum claim' in Post 922 if this was his first game as scum ever not sure he'd be so ballsy to say something like that.

---

I like a lot of the case on Thor is a massive stretch, I don't find his comments on Piggy and meta in Post 17, Post 21, Post 58, Post 65 and Post 69 are that bad at all. He has a point in that scum and town meta are needed to make a full detailed proper meta comparison. I can also think of a lot more useless questions that Oversoul asked than Thor. I don't think his change of read on Cerulean in Post 136 is that unnatural or him 'changing because he got no traction'. His read on Sixty in Post 307 is waffly but I find the post genuine for some reason. I don't think the interaction with Sixty from Post 373 to Post 375 is awkward. I have no issue with Thors Piggy hammer in Post 898 at all, the case on Piggy was a lot of Piggy - Jesse interaction and he had a scum-read on Jesse so it's a very natural time for him to hammer, especially when we're all yelling for him to get in the thread and hammer. So yeah, a lot of the Thor case is a stretch.

[Justin Timberlake]

It's I think* not I like in the bottom paragraph.

Think I'm going to head to bed now. I really want to hear from Jesse again.

[Justin Timberlake]

Because gut. I haven't read him in a while though, so I'll do that soon.

Anyway the case is a stretch. That doesn't mean it wasn't genuine or anything just that he's stretching. Any case that long is a stretch unless it's an indepth meta study showing behaviourl differences. Also in terms of case making you should attack a couple of major points and leave it at that if you're trying to go for the throat. Or at least that's what I do when scum and it's effective enough. There's one or 2 points that give me pause and are pretty good, though. Not going back through it now because fuck that but I find most of the things Oversoul finds scummy pretty null. This doesn't surprise me anyway, as even if myself and Oversoul had a similar conclusion I'd expect we'd arrive at a result for different reasons.

It being a stretch doesn't make it wrong, either. I need to see how I FEEL about it.

[Justin Timberlake]

However, I want to know something. JT (I forget which head) said that my activity checks out.

I think that was in relation to you not posting here but also not being on site. (If it was reasonably recent)

[Justin Timberlake]

Tammy, friends are coming over for drinking now but I'll get to Thor-Town when they leave in probably 3-4 hours.

As for has OS ever written that long I know you've searched it, but if you haven't found it I know he mentioned his longest past walls were written in his first lylo as town (although he said that before he'd finished writing).~M

Yeah, it was in Sedilla where Mastin was. Also found him doing a similar thing as town in another game, we have yet to find him doing on in a scum-game but god damn he's been town in like 95% of his games nearly so finding enough scum games to compare whether he wall case posts as scum is difficult.

[Justin Timberlake]

If there's anything you don't understand just ask away and I'll try and explain it clearer when I'm not somewhat tipsy.

Why I think Thor is town:

1) I find his change of read change on Cerulean from voting them to calling them obvtown from re-reading their play in Post 136 to be a town-tell, think he'd have been considering parking his vote for longer as scum, especially if the wagon alternate wagon at the time was on Piggy-Town. 2) I think him asking Piggy for a town-game where she's been lynched in Post 78 is a minor town-tell. 3) I think his catch up method of reading through, responding to some and then doing the rest later while noting for himself where he was up to such as said in Post 231 is more likely to come from town, think scum would be using the QT for stating where they're up to or where to catch up from. 4) I think the manner in which he goes 'got the opposite read off it' in Post 242 and asks for you to get together, discuss it and post both sets of opinions to be something that is fairly town motivated, I know as town I try and understand how a hydra is thinking not just together but individually so you can judge if the conclusions they've got to at the end make sense given their individual thoughts and conversation had. 5) I find the "If he flips scum I'm obvtown" comment in Post 362 about Voided to be genuine and it's something I often think when lynching a scum-read. 6) I don't think his Post 387 is him talking to partner in-thread, think them blitz hammering would have been discussed in the scum QT. 7) I think his whole play of voting N to see who would join him is massively massively town in thought process, he showed that he did suspect Sixty and knew that an N lynch wasn't going through so him pushing a 'counterwgon to save Sixty' cannot be the motivation for his move meaning that as scum either he planned the entire gambit of push someone else, then push whoever joins him which I don't think is the case. Especially not with the amount of flowing that occurs in the whole thing. I actually consider that whole situation to be a really really strong town-tell. 8) I found his whole Post 1125 to be genuine even though I think his opinion on partner hunting is wrong in this game.

---

With all that said my thoughts on N / Soul / Jesse is very jumbled up at the moment. Thought I was making progress on solving this entire game two days ago but it seems everything I've read since then re; Souls and Jesses meta and re-going through their ISOs has just thrown me of completely. I really think I need a day or two to just process everything and really want to hear from Jesse in the meantime as well as more from N - particularly about his thoughts on my reasoning behind Deadpool being town since him continuing to push and suggest that's what he thinks is the team while avoiding the reasoning makes little sense since he asked for it.

[Justin Timberlake]

I know I said earlier that scum have daytalk and thus Sixty would have been yelling at Jesse to bus vote but Vi was on V/LA and Tierce was pretty much ignoring the thread.

But probably not the QT. Which doesn't weaken your point as Jessie could have been.

[Justin Timberlake]

Why rebut Justin's anti-N case comments but not rebut his anti-Thor case comments?

He responded towards my town-tells on N, not my anti-N case and at that point I hadn't gone into my town-tells of you.

[Justin Timberlake]

Tammy, while Thor might say there's little to no difference between his scum and his town game, I've seen that said by a lot of players in the past and it's very very rarely true, people often like to think of their scum game as stronger than it is or just plain don't know the differences in the play themselves. With all that said I think there are a lot of elements of Thors playstyle that are null-tells but I haven't seen anything from him that I'd consider that scummy in this game and am finding his play to be genuine. I haven't played with Thor-Scum before, I know I've played with Thor-SK though but I have followed along with a Thor scum game from memory. Look forward to hearing yours and Empires detailed thoughts on everything soon though, really need to settle and agree on a few things.

Soul, RE; Post 1209 2) I find none of his preference or comments about meta to be scummy or contradictory really. 6) What are you trying to say here? It has nothing to do with who was voting who but rather their in thread interaction. 7) I think is by far the strongest town-tell so really really disagree with you attempting to treat it as a 'scum-tell' and part of your case. And as for our read on you - I think you're scum. If it came from push to shove right now and I had to place a vote down it'd be on you. There's a few things that are holding be back though, that being I'm not entirely sure I buy Jesse and yourself being completely working scum-team, there's a few comments between you guys that don't look like partners and OS's first wall resembles what I know of him as town and I've yet to come across a scum-game where he made a wall case. Pretty much a lot of small things like that are really throwing me off right now and I'm hoping a little time away from the game will help me either think it all through on a run, in the shower, on the train ect. I think I do a lot of my best thinking when I'm away from the game.

N, RE Post 1216 I'll respond first paragraph downwards 1) I don't really find 'buddying' to be a legitimate scum-tell, I don't think scums attempt at game start would be getting on the good side of someone by voting them and then unvoting them. The whole thing as town makes a lot of flowing sense. As scum it makes little. As for reactions / reads that he got; He did get one, on Equinox. 2) His tone and comments in his prior replace out posts don't read as him just being 'demotivated' the 'I won't post anymore' and 'I need to think about replacing out, okay yeah I will' ect. doesn't resemble that at all. Plus I think his consideration of replacing out would happen in the scum QT, not in-thread, all up this is a fairly massive town-tell. 3) The difference between Tierce/Piggy and Tierce/Absta is that Tierce joined the Piggy wagon late and the case looked like bussing partner for town cred whereas she was on Absta early so it can't be a 'scum thinking partners lynch is inevitable' reasoning at all. And while I think Thor/You are possible I don't think it's the case since I'm leaning towards him and to a lesser degree yourself being town. 4) Not everyone did. Soul didn't and it's one of the biggest things that are making me lean scum on them and as for the image post I meant 903.

Preliminary thoughts: I am really undecided on the whole "baiting to see if anyone doesn't join the Sixty wagon." I can see both town and scum motivations behind it - town because of just what he said. Scum because he had a neat explanation for derailing the Sixty wagon - one that town would buy, so win-win. If somebody else gets lynched other than Sixty, that is the second mislynch. If not, he gives his explanation that he was baiting players off the Sixty wagon.

I think Thor-Scum and Sixty-Scum would have known without a doubt that in this playerlist they weren't going to be dodging the lynch that day so the motivation of 'derailing the Sixty and getting a mslynch elsewhere' makes very little sense and is very very unlikely - plus the fact that he only works as scum with N means you're saying he was trying to get another partner lynched instead of just bussing one partner. And while I get that it's possible that he pre-planned this entire explanation towards his actions I don't find it to be the case - I think the entire thing is very natural.

[Justin Timberlake]

Well this discussion about Thor is boring.

[Justin Timberlake]

JT - how does thors own statement that his town game and scum game aren't really different affect your reading of his town tell? Also, have you ever played in a game with Thor scum?

(I have, at least once.)

Also SELF META IS INVALID LOL. SO THEREFORE HIS GAMES MUST BE DIFFERENT.

[Justin Timberlake]

Mod: Prod Jesse

I already did before you asked – callforjudgement

[Justin Timberlake]

I'll get on PC shortly and do some ISO reads on the suspected (myself too so I can see what I did to be so lucky)

[Justin Timberlake]

I'll answer questions a bit later when I'm here for more than on/offish.

[Justin Timberlake]

Your face is boring

What the fuck?

Just sayin

WHAT THE FUCK?

It's a good thing you have a sexy accent

Phew. Okay.

[Justin Timberlake]

JT, do you think Oversoul is capable of explaining all his emotions as scum the way he did? It is not the rage but the explanations for it that makes me lean town on him.

Hmm? Is that a thing that's hard to do. if you're

genuinely

mad I think you can probably explain it? It doesn't seem something that is hard to do as scum, I know I've been able to explain my reasons behind being angry (whether angry or faking!anger). Eh, I'll re-read it again with a clearer picture in mind.

Slimer seems fairly horrible. Welcome to the game, though!

[Justin Timberlake]

Slime post your reads plz.

[Justin Timberlake]

Sorry, been really busy lately. Good news is that things are getting a lot clearer in my head, want to talk with Faratroll though to see where his is.

Really don't like Slimers replace in but trying to determine how much of it is just derp and how much is actually scummy, I remember browsing a recently completed game of his where he blitz hammered as town on what essentially was lylo so think it's likely his whole "Not reading 50 pages" is just him being a moron. The "I never get scum roles" comment though comes across as really forced and ungenuine.

Actually - could someone remind me why N is 'only partners with Thor'? I should probably actually look at that logic.

That's not actually it. It's "Thor only works as partners with N". Soul / N is possible. Pretty much what it is is that Jesse/N don't work and Deadpool/Cerulean are town.

JT, why go to such effort if Sixty was getting lynched regardless?

I honestly don't know why I put so much effort into the game - I think it's very likely that I'm overly addicted to the game and struggle to remove the game and thoughts about it from my mind. Her response and excuse for the hammer didn't make any sense at all given that the hammer looked like it was just a Vi thing so her claiming to be there and have 'discussed it together' I was pretty sure was bullshit so wanted to make sure that time-zone wise it was without a doubt a blatant lie.

[Justin Timberlake]

Cerulean, I'm going to need your two thoughts soon because I'm growing more and more comfortable with my reads and Faraday isn't disagreeing with any of them other than perhaps the strength of a town-read or two but overall we're pretty much in synch. So if you guys are on a different wave length we need to know now especially given that the deadlines counting down and there's only 5ish days left or so.

N, RE Post 1293 1. I don't find buddying to be a scum-tell, that's why. You have players that suck up to others as both alignments and you have players that avoiding doing such, it's very rare that someone buddies as scum but not as town or as town and not as scum. So really I think it's probably one of the worst scum-tells thrown around. 2. Not finding the manner of his replace out as him being demotivated but we're going in circles over this point. And I think peoples actions here vs likelihood of it happening in the qt is a big thing, I remember being scum inside a QT in Faradays game and Slaxxs game and pretty much used it as a big communication arena and there'd be a lot of things I could have said in-thread but preferred to or opted to post it inside the QT there and think scum here are likely to do the same. 3. You've just agreed with me here.. I said that her interaction with absta and with piggy weren't similar. And it's not 'Sixty busses one partner' it was her push on Piggy looked like an attempt to grab town-cred given how late she was on the wagon.

How does Day 2 from me flow into scumpartnership with N? I would think Thor/Ceru or Thor/JT would make more sense at that stage. I think the point I'm hinting at is that clearing a connection to me is paranoid derp most likely - and maybe we should lynch off other reasons.

The D2 push on N with you as partners with N is slightly weird, it's another of the reasons that I'm leaning towards it being Soul/Jesse or Soul/N at the moment. And we're not lynching solely for the reasoning of 'connections', that's just to help narrow things down a little bit and find out where is more likely to hit scum and where is far less likely. We'll be basing our vote on reads and right now from T->S: We're probably at Cerulean=Deadpool > Thor > N > Jesse=Soul.

Okay, Deadpool can be a stronger scum read than Soul now. Which is terrible, but...he's just admitted to being two players who don't discuss anything, and that needs to be squashed immediately.

Not discussing reads together as a hydra isn't actually that scummy, it's not optimal play but it's very understandable - finding time when you're both online and able to discuss things is often very difficult and I don't find any real issue with their stances or what it leads to. It's not them saying N is the common partnership denominator and thus should be lynched, it's them saying they both have a scum-read on N and is the scum-read they both share thus want him lynched.

[Justin Timberlake]

F-16 said he thinks Jess and N are scummy.

who does he think is scum with N

is it jesse

is that what he thinks it is?

[Justin Timberlake]

Maybe because I'm not dumb and I realize I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I didn't hard defend jesse right now or do something similar. Do you really think I was scum with jesse wouldn't be defending him more right now or trying to kill the belief of that as a team that could exist. Essentially I'm competent enough not to let the current situation with jesse be occurring and let it continue. Or am I incompetent?

Yes because when people are trying to narrow down pairs you would certainly be incompetent to not defend your buddy

do you even lift?

[Justin Timberlake]

SLIMER DO SOMETHING YOU USELESS SACK OF SLIME

[Justin Timberlake]

DON'T INTERACT WITH ME SCUMBAG

[Justin Timberlake]

That was half of it (and you can explain to me how neither pushing on him a lot or protecting him a lot is wise in this situation if he was my buddy). Not sure what the last line means.

It means do you even lift. (If jesse's your buddy you're kind of fucked either way. It doesn't make you a bad player to not take action, or not to defend)

[Justin Timberlake]

+ you could be bad scum

[Justin Timberlake]

(i mean in you own mind, i find it a not bad scum move but maybe you've fucked up and are being too critical idk tbf) Don't really have a point.

pedit: thanks thor

[Justin Timberlake]

Well I just read page 1.

Vote N

[Justin Timberlake]

Since I can't see Slimer replacing out from a scum role, because she's been dying to get scum.

Pressure may have overwhelmed him. I mean he wanted to be scum and maybe he hated it once he got it.

I can definitely see it.

[Justin Timberlake]

UNVOTE

Fuck off Faraday. I want to wait for the replacement, at least.

[Justin Timberlake]

Since I can't see Slimer replacing out from a scum role, because she's been dying to get scum.

Pressure may have overwhelmed him. I mean he wanted to be scum and maybe he hated it once he got it.

I can definitely see it.

I actually can't. I would expect him to at least really somewhat try. Replaced out too quickly, didn't really show signs of trying to put effort in.

I mean idk I still can't see it. If I wanted to be scum badly I wouldn't really have replaced out even if I was being attacked like that.

he seems a weak and bad player and i could see him having weird thoughts on ebing definitely lynched and not wanting to be scum. + he's been here a few days, it's not really too soon. but ANYWAY.

[Justin Timberlake]

if it makes you feel any better i wanted him lynched until about 3 rl days ago and was hunting for his buddies w/o telling regfan

[Justin Timberlake]

Faraday actually posted Post 1394, he likes to pretend to be me. Who can blame him though. But yeah, I'm not comfortable with an N vote or any vote at the moment, was growing more and more towards voting Soul but Oversouls "We should look for whatever absta bumped across" is very much what I'm used to re; Oversoul as town so need to step back and look at it again plus I want more Oversoul and replacement posting.

Cerulean, please don't tell me you guys are really still harbouring suspicion towards Deadpool. There's a lot in this game I'm uncertain about but them and you guys as town is one of the things that I'd bank on at this point. Really need to see your guys thoughts and reads soon

Pedit: Faraday, you're a cunt.

[Justin Timberlake]

Find him willing to reference the notes + not post them a bit weird too. Esp. the way he didn't adress it for a while.

[Justin Timberlake]

Most of it's paranoia, and Arthur reading off to me and F-16 not really posting at all. We'll be putting together our reads and thoughts soon, if not tomorrow...the next day.

We need to cut down on paranoia though, the games already difficult enough without constantly doubting a read and he's not worthy of being paranoid of at all when you look at how obvtown Absta makes the slot. Plus add the fact that I think a lot of your dislike of the slot is due to him dealing with you guys in an aggressive manner when replacing in. Also about Jesse, I actually found his D1 play to be townish for the most part and disliked everything after that or from late D1 onwards, his play after then didn't read as much as genuinely scumhunting but rather flailing around and his refusal to post his reads especially with how the whole thing went down makes it look like he never had notes. So really ignoring PoE which says that Jesse only works as scum with Soul and ignoring the fact that Slimers replace out might be a town-tell then no the slot overall doesn't look town but there's just too many things playing on my mind at the moment to actually be comfortable with lynching it, hoping I can get a solid read on whoever replaces in.

You guys have been practising your good cop/bad cop routine, haven't you? What do you think of silmer's replace out? You saw absta's as a towntell, and the two were pretty similar, so do you think slimer's replace out was a towntell too?

I hope that makes me the good cop then. And I'm in two minds about Slimers replace out; it's not in the same boat as absta in that abstas replace out looks like he was spoilered and Slimers is just him not being bothered to read the thread and being lazy. But I took a look around and Deadpools point of Slimer being less inclined to replace out so easily as scum might hold some weight, Faraday doesn't agree with me on that though, he seems to think Slimer might find actually getting a scum role to be too much work at the moment given his real life situation (His sig was something about him having his heart broken a few days ago from memory).

[Justin Timberlake]

Faraday, what made you change your mind on N?

I had no real intention of keeping my vote on N, hence why I unvoted pretending to be regfan. Some of his early line of questioning re: Piggy looks a bit forced, though.


I re-read absta and decided deadpool are town for real. Soul have some fairly genuine stuff that I think would we well faked as scum. [Thor/N/Jessie] and I'm waiting for a Jessie replacement.

[Justin Timberlake]

P-edit: Don't be like JT. Reads revealed won't kill you. That and who's jesse's slot scum with again (other then me if you still suspect me)?

Regfan's always open about his reads?

I do admittedly lie about reads so don't trust me and stuff.


N's focus at the moment is rather odd.

[Justin Timberlake]

By odd do you mean scummy?

Maybe!

[Justin Timberlake]

That's the blunt version. I'll lynch either in a heart beat right now if we can just get one of them lynched. If we were suspecting town a ton then maybe the lynch wouldn't be stalling so long.

theslimer3 (2): N Thor665
N (2): Deadpool Soul2277
Thor665 (1): theslimer3
Not voting: Justin Timberlake Cerulean

Both N and Slimer have 2 votes. Couldn't the whole stall thing be applied to either wagon? Since the people not voting are me + ceru I think that's irrelevant anyway.

(Tbh I vaguely want to just flip N and Slimer as I don't think both slots are town so etc?)

[Justin Timberlake]

Faraday, you're the bad cop and I don't want to listen to you.

OKAY BUT REGFAN'S AUSTRALIAN. You should stop concentrating on that stupid thing with Arthur. Do you think it's useful? I read it and it's pretty boring? (In an alignment indicative way)

[Justin Timberlake]

Who's attacking who over dissonance?

[Justin Timberlake]

Who's attacking who over dissonance?

Thor/N have been pushing this whole WELL BOTH HEADS THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT JESSE AND HAVE EXTRAPOLATED DIFFERENT READS FROM IT, THAT'S SCUMMY AS HELL BRO for a while now.

~Empire.

Oh, I wasn't talking about that at all.

[Justin Timberlake]

(The hydra dissonance angle that is, N's stuff is odd for other reasons)

[Justin Timberlake]

OKAY BUT REGFAN'S AUSTRALIAN. (In an alignment indicative way)

Okay, but how does that rate on the sexiness scale with and Irish accent? Just wondering.

Spoiler:

A man, fresh off the plane at Sydney airport, is trying to negotiate Australian customs. Finally, when it's his turn to get his passport stamped, the customs officer starts rattling off the usual questions:
C.O. - How long do you intend to stay?
Man - 1 week.
C.O. - What is the nature of this trip?
Man - Business.
C.O. - Do you have any past criminal convictions?
Man - I didn't think we still needed to!

That aside your question offends me, Empire. It doesn't rate. Kinda. Unless it's an Aussie woman.

[Justin Timberlake]

Cerueal, I'm not saying that your sole suspicion of Deadpool is based on his replace in but I am saying that I think it's made you somewhat biased of the situation because you're so close to it. I haven't had much of any issue with anything coming from them and are finding so much of Arthurs posting genuine but that's really unneeded given Absta makes the slot town alone. If you disagree with some of the points re; Absta being town then bring it up and discuss them with me otherwise AbstaTown = DeadpoolTown and that's all there is to it. Also I can understand why you might want to hold of reads until the replacement comes in but I'd rather be able to have as much information as possible to work with right now instead of waiting. Deadlines in 4 days so lets not waste time please.

Next, JT if you've solidified our read then you should be able to vote (2 lynches left with three possible scum according to you and one of the three can't pair up with the other two).

I haven't solidified my read on you guys at all yet though - I think Faraday is growing much more confident you're town but I still have my doubts. That said Oversouls posts are making me more and more willing to put them aside. Here's my issue though; I think Jesses slot is actually rather likely scum and I don't see him partner with anyone other than you so there's something wrong and I'm unable to work it all out. I also think Thors town so unless it's somehow Jesse + N and I've ruled that out incorrectly then one of my town reads on you and Thor are wrong and you'll have to bare with me and deal with me not throwing down a vote until I work it all out.

So I do think there is potential easywin if we can look at his interactions but that is up to the ethics police whehter it is right to continue searching or not.

I think Thor pointed it out but searching for it is pointless given finding it will end up being a force-replace or modkill which isn't a good idea.

[Justin Timberlake]

I should be asleep but someone remind me to look at Jesse/N again tomorrow - had a random thought about something there when trying to fall asleep.

[Justin Timberlake]

CES you didn't happen to tell the mod a joke when confirming and confirm yourself as town did you? That'd have been nice.

[Justin Timberlake]

You could always confess if you're scum too. You're nommed for Paragon, by definition you're almost supposed to have a fairly poor scum game so now would be the time to start working towards that.

[Justin Timberlake]

@JT - as someone with a townish vibe on him, how do you feel about Oversoul's case on me and my reaction to it. I would think one of us would look bad there considering the intensity of what I'm saying about that case.

No, not really. Making a bad case isn't scummy.

[Justin Timberlake]

Well we haven't lynched the second scum yet.

[Justin Timberlake]

Why did you feel the need to bold that?

[Justin Timberlake]

JT I know there isn't anything super major breaking me/jesse as scum, but can you explain how we work as a scum pair? (yes I remember the poe analysis, but since then has anything affected that team read).

Well you don't not work? That's a good reason.

[Justin Timberlake]

fos: Cogito Ergo Sum

[Justin Timberlake]

I suppose it does look a little silly.

[Justin Timberlake]

I don't understand what you hope to achieve from this discussion. Is it to change my mind or something?

[Justin Timberlake]

I mean even if you were both town I could probably find linkage to make you scum so why ask what the case for you being scum together is?

[Justin Timberlake]

So do dead + ces work? Sure they do, but that doesn't mean it's a great reason to continue that suspicion (although the real problem is disagreeing on thor town) if you think he can't pair up with any of the scummy players.

+ this only works as a reason if I assume infallibility of my reads. I don't really get why you brought this up now, anyway.

[Justin Timberlake]

I don't have you as definite town or anyway so I'm not going to fully rule out the pair.

Plus we thought Jessie/N was vaguely viable since I could see Jessie getting into a stupid argument with his buddy, even if it's a bit risky on N's part here atm.

[Justin Timberlake]

His posts. General gut town read which I tend to trust.

[Justin Timberlake]

Maybe in response to post 1496?

The problem with that is who n is voting right now and the amount others have shown suspicion for jesse.

~M

Yes, that is indeed a problem and would require a lot of recklesness on N's part, I guess.

[Justin Timberlake]

Anyway Mehdi convince regfan you're town so he votes N?

[Justin Timberlake]

We were voting absta101 to see who would switch wagons if we did that. There were several voices raised against absta101 yet no votes going ----> that way, so we were checking who felt happy jumping off Piggy and onto someone else who was gathering suspicion. Not much came of it.

This is also a nicer way of saying "we were trying to misslynch absta".

Assuming you were scumhunting. Why would scum move from Piggy to absta? What made you suspect scum were on Piggy's waggon?
What do the results of your 'investigation' tell you?

This looks townish + the Equinox thing at the start. (It mostly looks townish because I think Sixty were bullshitting and not trying to see who'd jump on a buddy)

[Justin Timberlake]

Cerulean, I'm not going to wall respond to Post 1498 because

I just ruled it out as an emotional post and didn't read it

I think going back and forth on that discussion is just going to piss us both of and get us nearly nowhere but there are a few small things I want to address inside it 1) From what I gather Arthurs initial replace in reads where just him bullshitting and then progressing to reaction-test you from it so I don't think he seriously had a strong town read on Thor and if he did it was probably based on skimming a few posts and saying 'gut town' so I think your paranoia of them being a team is a little bit of a stretch - plus I think *both* are town. 2) I didn't find his push on Piggy ungenuine? I'll go back and look at it again tomorrow if it eases your mind but my memory of it all was that his push of it and his reaction after it was very natural. 3) I completely buy their reasoning for voting N today - if you're in a hydra and spit on reads as in 1 suspects A/B and the other suspects B/C then voting B over say A or C makes sense. 4) Can I hear Empires thoughts on the Absta town-tells please because now both you and N have said they were 'over-the-top' from Absta but am struggling to see that at all.

@JT - as someone with a townish vibe on him, how do you feel about Oversoul's case on me and my reaction to it. I would think one of us would look bad there considering the intensity of what I'm saying about that case.

I've seen Oversoul make a terrible absolutely terrible but 'intense' case in Sedillia mafia where he was town so him making a terrible case isn't out of the norm at all and not a scum-tell in the slightest and I've actually somewhat liked the way you've responded to the whole debacle.

JT, why hasn't the Town won this game yet?

Because I haven't been confident enough in a scum-read or a scum-team today to take the plunge and really really don't want this going to lylo so I rather just slow the entire day down until I'm certain it's right. Plus

well you know Tammy is really slow in the head so she makes the whole day slow.

Cerulean seem just as undecided as I am at the moment. It's a frustrating game and at some points it seems the more time I dedicate to the game the more lost I become.

Also can you please read the thread properly asap and jump into the game. Deadlines approaching and I need something from you slot that isn't trolling.

And faraday do you think N (who this would be his second scum game) would be that reckless? If not we can say no to n and jesse scum and move along.

I suggest you take a good look through his first scum game, I'll be saving the pages and going over it again sometime on the way to cricket tomorrow but he actually seems to have a very competent scum-game so I don't think he'd be reluctant to take any risks at all. Plus was thinking last night that Tierce/Vi were still alive when Thor voted N and I think it's plausible that she'd tell Jesse to join him to create some distancing between Jesse and N - the only way scum ever win white flag games when a mans down is to try and get themselves ruled out as a pair and I think she'd have told them to distance the fuck out of each other and with that in mind a lot of their play actually reads as forced and awkward towards each other. I found a post in Ns ISO that was "I like my vote on Jesse but Deadpool vote is TEMPTING" which came across as continue to distance partner while setting himself up and giving himself options to join a town wagon if it emerges. Also found his "This is all your case? It's shit" post from one to the other to be really bad.

[Justin Timberlake]

Plus was thinking last night that Tierce/Vi were still alive when Thor voted N and I think it's plausible that she'd tell Jesse to join him to create some distancing between Jesse and N

Honestly doesn't this seem a bit of a stupid strategy to distance? (At least advised distancing). Probably done on their own initiative if scum. + the fact is sixty was definitely getting lynched that day.

[Justin Timberlake]

N's scum game isn't that useful, he's obviously not awful at scum but the playerlist there was a competent and that's about it. He was also a lot more active then (early game esp) so it's hard to get a baseline on his posts for me.

[Justin Timberlake]

Sixty spent a lot of time lecturing Tammy about her behavior towards Thor and Jesse. Seeing as they are scum, I am thinking at least part of this was contrived - and intended to discredit Tammy's reads as well as subtly buddy up to Thor/Jesse. I have a lot of trouble understanding why they would go so far as to make long walls chastising Tammy for attacking their buddies.

Do you not think at least part of this was inspired by the fact that Tierce might have had an actual problem? It's not irrelevant to her alignment but at the same time it's not an attack on Tammy's reads at all, and neither was it phrased as one.

Also since you're an alt @ the logging in and out thing.

[Justin Timberlake]

Plus if it WAS an attack on her or trying to discredit her why wouldn't you want to discredit reads on your actual buddies as opposed to townies?

[Justin Timberlake]

What do you think Soul is doing with the current vote if he's N's buddy? Hope the wagon goes away?

[Justin Timberlake]

Back from a hell of a weekend, going to take a shower grab something to eat and then I'll get to this game.

[Justin Timberlake]

I think at the moment I'm leaning more towards an N lynch than a Jesse lynch. That said:

CES, trolling and mucking around times over. Deadlines within 24 hours so you not having read the whole thread from what it comes across and stating reads and content is getting really really lame. It's noonish over there so you should be on within the next few hours so I'm expecting some actually shit from you then.

Cerulean, RE: Post 1548 I don't think Arthur having an inital read when skimming that's gut based and then losing it when reading more is out of the ordinary for him at all but I can kind of see where your paranoia over it comes from. Also about Jesses and N's post lynch posts I don't think either is

that

scummy either because the timing of Ns post was after everyone had claimed not to be Piggys partner and a lot of the reason we lynched Piggy was that we thought she was likely partners with Jesse so from Jesses point of view the lynch isn't that likely to end the day or at least not likely enough to prevent him posting thoughts. I do think your points against N in Post 1556 and Post 1570 hold quite a lot of weight though. I'll be going over it one more time later tonight but his lack of mentioning them as a 'big scum-read' and thinking their Piggy case was 'shit' at time comes off really bad.

Deadpool, RE: Post 1578 and Post 1585 Tierce telling Tammy to lay of the personal attacks and to calm down her behaviour is just a follow-up of their play in other games, Tierce has made her stance on that sort of play very clear in that she thinks it ruins games - not so much anyone's chances of winning specifically but it just ruins the integrity of the game and turns it into a shitfest. So I think a lot of her spiel towards Tammy is very non-alignment indicative. Plus I'm pretty sure Tierce also thinks that buddying is not a legitimate scum-tell so her attempting to play an entire angle to 'buddy' people isn't likely at all.

[Justin Timberlake]

And Faraday if you're around and see this I need you to get on AIM asap. Something I need to talk to you about.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm pretty okay with N being lynched here.

(There's a decent reason to not pick a scumbuddy if you're thor, picking someone like Jessie who's irrational might lead to just making him want to vote you. I mean it's a bit intellectually dishonest to say you'd not pick your buddy doing that)

Soul jumping off the N wagon? Hm?

Who's Thor's buddy (since it's not N or you'd have stayed on)

[Justin Timberlake]

Last question was to SOUL.

I'll vote N a bit later. 15 hours left.

[Justin Timberlake]

Who's Thor's buddy (since it's not N or you'd have stayed on)

If you still think it's thor/N i don't understand the jump off I guess?

[Justin Timberlake]

Just woke up and still no sign of Faraday on AIM. We need to talk dude. Asap.

Soul, let me get this right; You don't want Jesses slot lynched because the only people it plausibly can be scum with is N or yourself thus it has 1 working potential partnership from your point of view but are fine voting Thor whose only potential working partnership is N? The difference between Jesse and Thor should be non-existent for you and the fact that N works with both of them should make you more comfortable with his lynch, plus I remember Oversoul saying that he found Thors reaction somewhat townish to the case on him. So really not liking or understanding your unvote of N here at all.

I think I've got a pretty good idea as to whom I want lynched already, so I think I'm fine myself.

It's not good enough for me though. We've had Jesse who barely posted on D2 onwards, Slimer who did nothing upon replacing in and now you who isn't saying anything in detail at all so your slot has literally been useless for a long time now. You need to change that; There's no reason for you to refrain from stating reads and reasoning behind them and you're more than capable of doing so.

[Justin Timberlake]

In Post 1547 you agree that N can be scum with Jesse. So that's two potential partners for N, not one.

[Justin Timberlake]

Cerulean, how active can you guys be today or during the next 10 hours?

[Justin Timberlake]

Soul, I don't think it's that problematic at all. While Jesse / N pushed on each other it was never hardcore and left themselves openings to leave it.

Tammy, I should be around that long too, I have a few small work things to get done but I'll be checking in on the thread fairly often. Want to end this today, really don't think I can deal with another two weeks of thinking over this game. At this point though I'm probably going to be voting N but want to talk with Faraday first.

I was thinking of just winning the game instead. That cool?

That seems mighty boring. It'd be much more fun if you posted a bunch of your thoughts. Do it for the children.

[Justin Timberlake]

Finally had a chance to speak with Faraday, looks like we're both in agreement that N is the best bet of hitting scum. I'm going to go get some lunch and finish up my work stuff and if my mind hasn't changed in the meantime probably vote N when I get back. Tammy or well anyone else, if there's anything you think I'm missing or need to re-look at you should post it in the next hourish or two.

So remind me why N left his vote on jesse's slot the entire time slime was there and for a while before that? Maybe he hasn't pushed hard, but considering the suspicion that slot has had he definitely hasn't helped. Nor has CES asking and pushing me to vote N near the end of the day make that pair likely~M

Leaving a vote on someone without really pushing their lynch is actually somewhat likely to come from partners that think their only chance of winning is by distancing with each other so they get ruled out so I don't think that's a point against them being a scum-team all that much. And as for CES, I honestly can't get a solid enough read on him based on his N push nor do I know if he'd do it as partners with N or not.

[Justin Timberlake]

N I think respoding to that particular post proves it is indeed a thing.

[Justin Timberlake]

responding

[Justin Timberlake]

Sigh.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm also finding Oversouls recent posts more townish than scummy and it's not the 'It was a good game Thor' comments but rather the progression from Oversoul claiming to have found something, them going to have a discussion and then coming out of it with a vote change with reasoning being subtle and confidence growing. Entire thing is exactly what I'd expect from Oversoul-Town in this situation.

Tammy, Thor/CES is a big-no. For it to be the case you'd have to be saying that Thor-Scum voted N-Town on D2 with the intention of having his Jesse-Scum partner join him on the N-Town wagon and then to use Jesses joining him to push on Jesse for the rest of the game. It really makes no sense whatsoever between partners.

And CES, you'll have to wait 2 minutes or so.

Start of Day 3. N clears Piggy. Discuss.

Yeah, saw it earlier, gave me some hesitation on him and did seem townish, that said his entire stance on 'Sixtys case on Piggy was bad' kills whatever good that did.

What the hell is this? Where has my vote been pretty much all game? The only vote I've made that wasn't for Jesse was on Piggy

in RVS

. What does it take to be "hardcore" to you?

Both of your reasoning for voting each other and the argument that arose from it in the middle of D2 or so seems incredibly forced, doesn't come across as you both genuinely suspecting the other person at all so 'voting them all game' is very plausibly an act and attempt to distance there. And pushing 'hardcore' would be constantly bringing up reasoning for why the other person is scum, you haven't really done that at all.

[Justin Timberlake]

Vote N

PRESSURE VOTE

[Justin Timberlake]

And CES, you'll have to wait 2 minutes or so.

[Justin Timberlake]

Tammy, so is your consideration of CES/Thor scum-team just paranoia?

Flip will tell. And I'll be the first to admit N's play in the last 24 hours has been terrible and a half. But I'm thinking I'm right and you just derped.

Well Faraday beat me to voting so if it's wrong the blame can all be on him and if it's right I'll take the credit.

[Justin Timberlake]

N doesn't look like town about to be lynched.

[Justin Timberlake]

Soul are SUPER TOWN btw

[Justin Timberlake]

(No @ that)

[Justin Timberlake]

It's a lie and an attempt for a mislynch of a better than N player at a strategically important moment.

lol?

[Justin Timberlake]

Regfan thinks thors town though.

(nope)

[Justin Timberlake]

--------------------[]
[]-------------------

[Justin Timberlake]

PEW PEW

[Justin Timberlake]

Jesse was a decent shot to have happen and I thought maybe it would happen...but...no.

the problem was we had eliminated like 3 people who weren;t being lynched so even if jessie went today n went tomorrow

[Justin Timberlake]

I re-read page 1 mostly. N's questioning of piggy seemed fake.

[Justin Timberlake]

Can people put it in planner terms for us stupid people.

thor appears to be claiming NOT TOWN

[Justin Timberlake]

LOOOOOLL

Thank god we lynched N and not Thor.

[Justin Timberlake]

Fuck. Yes. Fuck. Fuck. Yessssssssssssssssss.

[Justin Timberlake]

LOL

I called their shitty distancing. awesome. well that was fun.

[Justin Timberlake]

Well, so very glad the games over. I don't think I could have handled a lylo.

[Justin Timberlake]

Btw, the scum asked for their QT to be kept secret. The dead thread is here.

Can I ask which scum wanted it secret because that's quite lame.

[Justin Timberlake]

Btw, the scum asked for their QT to be kept secret. The dead thread is here.

spoilsport scum

[Justin Timberlake]

WE FUCKING DID IT GUYS

Well game was rather town-sided so meh.

because we lynched scum early and ruled out partnerships. also cerulean + JT were pretty easy reads too

happy i read thor right too, even though I thought he was claiming scum post hammer <_<

[Justin Timberlake]

And faraday remind me who looked super town?:p

well because i felt faking a tell from another game was unlikely but it didn't matter since N had to be scum via POE!

[Justin Timberlake]

(Which is why I rather don't like White Flag).

white flag is definitely balanced. this is too just it might be one of those theoretically balanced setups that's super hard for scum

[Justin Timberlake]

although there were some dubious ones as well

lmao slimer

[Justin Timberlake]

Scum played very well, by the way, IMO. But town played even better. I feel that the result of the game reflects the actual better team quite well, but also that most players are better at town than at scum, so I fear that the setup is overall townsided.

hmm? soul were the best part of the scum team I think. the others didn't play above averagely. at the very least N's lack of activity really hurted him.

(I don't think most people are better as town. the players in the scumteam this game might have been, though?)

[Justin Timberlake]

Perhaps a fix would be to add an extra VT and give the scum a 1-shot factional dayvig. That way, scum aren't completely helpless in the face of a particularly powerful townie. They have more control over the lynch vote than in other setups, but that isn't really enough to help them along.

it might make it better balanced although definitely changes the whole dynamic of the setup by just introducing a kill in the first place

[Justin Timberlake]

What killed Sixty? :/ The meta thing or the Piggy gal fail meta thing?

the quickhammer thing? :p I was fairly sure they were scum before empire's meta, although it was from that case tierce posted which was the basis of his meta so eh

[Justin Timberlake]

i don't get the hammer. yes they had 2 players very strongly convinced they were scum but vm was probably the lynch. so eh the quickhammer felt a tactically poor play. at the very least n and soul could have used some more towncred from lynching you normally.

[Justin Timberlake]

Also, I don't understand why replacements were in an issue in this game. Anyone care to elaborate?

presumably they were hard on scum? *shrug* it happens. this type of game will attract good replacements anyway, it's just impossible to deal with them in nightless