Open 491: The Popcorn Mafia: GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

Hello. You seem like you're holding back; is there any particular reason for this?

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, it's a lot more fun as scum, I think. But it certainly has its plus sides as town; who is your strongest scumread?

[Nachomamma8]

Or, if you prefer townreads over scumreads, give me your townreads that won't flip scum ever.

[Nachomamma8]

Ineffective ***
RedPanda *
RachMarie **
Syryana *

This is the Do Not Shoot list for today.

[Nachomamma8]

Ff will be useless until she's shot, making her a fantastic shot. I feel like she's holding back because she is scum and not because she is bored because bored holding back still has flashes of scumhunting that are nowhere to be found in her play today.

The thing that sort of puts me off about you is that I don't recall you particularly wanting the gun.

This quote here is scummy as hell and demonstrates pretty handily why she's been posturing so much to get the gun without really caring about sorting out any reads. That disconnect doesn't really make much sense to me; fferyllt doesn't strike me as the kind of player who would just lurk because she doesn't have the power to kill someone. But, if I've overestimated her, she's still a solid player and her contributions when she does have the gun will be solid, meaning there's no reason this should be a useless slot for anything more than today. Although, she's probably just scum making excuses if we're being honest with ourselves.

[Nachomamma8]

Red Panda, Ineffective next.

You would bet the game on these two flipping town?

[Nachomamma8]

Compromise shot would probably be jeremy, yeah. Not only is he a good choice for fferyllt partners thanks to #297 by fferyllt that seems to be a soft-defense/distance wrapped up in one horrible, horrible read with the moving onto stronger distancing in #423. His posts in general have been completely devoid of any content at all, his #351 is the epitome of "padded post", #361 reads like jeremy is frustrated his attempt to buddy to to Syryana didn't really work, and a lot of his posts seem like they were made just so he posts something, which follows along with new-scum mindset of "low activity = scum".

[Nachomamma8]

Why RachMarie?

Why do you care...?

[Nachomamma8]

Why RachMarie?

Why do you care...?

Because I have her considerably lower.

I gathered that much, but arguing about reads that aren't our strongest don't really matter right now. Jeremy is top shot preference, you don't want CTD to shoot Syryana, and you would rather not he shoot but don't really care if he shoots fuzzybutternut. Right?

[Nachomamma8]

But, speak of the devil, Rach. You around?

[Nachomamma8]

It is but CTD hasn't shown any indication of shooting her, so explanation doesn't really matter.

[Nachomamma8]

For clarification, fuzzy is your #4 townread?

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, I think all I care about today is four strongest townreads and three scumreads: CTD's that you most want shot, the person NOT on CTD's list that you most want shot, and a second person on CTD you would compromise and let him shoot.

Four strongest townreads are Syryana, Ineffective, RP, and Rach.
Shots are jeremy, fferyllt, fuzzy.

CTD, I would like the townreads you would bet the game on.

[Nachomamma8]

Has your top three changed at all?

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, I think all I care about today is four strongest townreads and three scumreads: CTD's that you most want shot, the person NOT on CTD's list that you most want shot, and a second person on CTD you would compromise and let him shoot.

Give me this and I will answer your question.

[Nachomamma8]

Seriously tho "shoot me" would be my intro if i was scum. First gut reaction of shooter would be " hes obvious town lets find scum" unless he considered the possibility that the statement could be intended to have that effect

He notes its effectiveness as a scum tactic, but instead of following onto that scum tactic, he merely observes that it's fucking stupid for any town to do it since it works so well as scum. As scum going for towncred here, it surprises me that he wouldn't attack one of the people pulling off the "shoot me" shit, but instead he merely leaves it as information, which has minimal advantage as scum.

I said im sorry that i made you uncomfortable because that is how i interperated your response... Hyperfocusing on one plainly stated initial reason to thow out a fos and acting like it wasnt directly stated that you wanted to be shot... . Do it is in reference to what came before which was "shoot minimal". How can you say that you want to be shot in more plain terms? You added all the fluff and intent after i pointed at you and acted like i had put words in your mouth... That made me want to puke tbh

There's a bit of an aggressive exchange between Minimal/Ineffective here which is interesting because Ineffective gets accused of "making [Minimal] look bad", where he sort of backs off a little bit in a "sorry, just aggressive" sort of way but never actually backs down. This rang pretty townie to me mostly because seeing Minimal's post as scum would be like seeing blood in the water for me, and Ineffective's response is that the player he's attacking might be a little overdefensive, so he backs the fuck down. That shows he's being careful about getting clean reads and I don't see that likely coming from scum either.

Shoot him before he is replaced imo... If he is scum his replacement will come in and towntell like crazy to make up for jeremy being choked up

Crazy offsite logic, but what would be scum motivation behind this probably wouldn't be vocalized like this.

Hahahahahahhaahahahahahahah

You said exactly what i told you to say unabashedly without being afraid of looking bad for it....

Inserted a couple towntells too.

I must admit i like that post

Good tone here.

Fuzzy has posted in at least 5 threads at varying hours since he was asked to clarify.........

And monitoring people's activity while waiting for responses to his questions.

[Nachomamma8]

Because he's a chronic lurker, mostly.

[Nachomamma8]

Just a tiny little bit of things that aren't completed, unfortunately. He's a chronic lurker, true, and I seriously doubt that he will flip town for things like #351, which is trying far too hard to say something but says absolutely nothing at all, or #361, which seems like as long as he reads Syryana as town, Syryana has nothing to attack him for. That's definitely scum mindset.

[Nachomamma8]

Why? I think the latter two have a good chance of being scum and My partner thinks Panda has a good chance of being scum. I agree with Ineffective though I want to know why the latter three aren't likely to be scum especially Syry. We are both struggling to read him this game

I usually read RachMarie using meta. I suppose I'll put more into that read later, but essentially we've played a lot together and she hasn't yet managed to fake the genuine tone that she has demonstrated in droves here. She also has a few other habits (she cheerleads and tells everyone how great they are as town more, being extra careful with reads on newbies), things like that. She hasn't really talked about her reads as much as I'd like her, though. Syryana has had a posting style this is part trolling, part analysis, that is sort of hard to pull off as scum. The trolling digs holes for you and some people find it sort of townish, then the analysis doesn't get you any points with that crowd and it takes away all the advantage that posting like that as scum offers you. I also think that him sticking his neck out to get the Minimal shot was ballsy as fuck, especially with CTD's earlier suspicion of him. RedPanda has been hitting all of the typical pro-town marks; aggressive, showing independent thought, making early moves in order to figure out a working scumteam and playing with it. There are also the little things, like the "fuck this stupid 'shoot me' shit", being honest about not being able to explain townreads... I like it.

What does this mean?

As in if I saw you making that post as scum I would go after it immediately.

I want to have a close look at who besides Syr pushed for you to be shot. I don't know if that will change my reads. Maybe.

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

How did you know that it was me posting and not Mezzi?

what does people pushing me have to do with anyone's alignment Ffery? I don't think I'm exactly an easy push.

Because Messiah hasn't been seen in like two weeks and you have a distinctive posting style.

Also having Messiah listed as a hyrdra head in the player list probably helped too, eh.

Any actual thoughts?

[Nachomamma8]

Refresh me on your reads.

[Nachomamma8]

Town reads?

Also, can you give me a little more than that?

[Nachomamma8]

Catlord is moving into the scumpile... changing the read on jeremy seems like blending... Blames it on iso then uses in game reasons already pointed out and compares it to nothing.

Yeah, I saw this too. I'm trying to see if I can't figure out whether they are likely to be scum together or not.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't really have time today, read up tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, how strong is your scum read on Ffery? What do you think of Fuzzy? I think I might be wrong about Syry and I feel that I'm either wrong on one of Panda or Rach though not both. I don't feel like Panda is scum hunting like he has promised to, he has given his reads without reason IIRC and he proceeds to immediately buddy you upon your entrance which bothers me.

My scum read on ff is not significantly strong, but I expect that will change as I read through the thread. Fuzzy seems a bit scummier to me lately, especially with you flipping town. I really, really, really don't see Rach as scum but I could probably see Panda as scum without too much squinting.

It makes sense, but it could potentially lead to a nightmarish endgame. I'm not sure how to balance that. Nacho? thoughts?

You don't have to trust them with the gun that much. Literally the worst thing that they could ever do is shoot obvious town, but then that obvious town has the gun. In my opinion, it's something better taken care of sooner than later and I have no idea why there's so much trust needed to give someone a gun. They can fuck up, sure, but not that badly.

[Nachomamma8]

And since RedPanda has been tossed around so much lately as a scum candidate, I took a closer look, and yeah, I still don't like what I see. I'd expect him to be fairly aggressive this game, fairly focused on forming good strong townreads; after all, when you completely dominate at a setup, it's not like you're going to take a step back and be like "nah, too good". It is, however, exactly the step back I'd expect him to take as scum because it reminds me of Socio in the second white flag after he dominated the first, making him a solid as fuck shot. Meanwhile, his interaction with jeremy is pretty fucking interesting. RedPanda is the only person jeremy has taken a marked interest in, yet interactions lean to them not being scum together (#293 would be him saying "bussing like that wouldn't be my style" while bussing a partner, and the big wallpost is an odd place in terms of buddying/aggression). If RedPanda held the gun, he'd probably shoot jeremy, and I'd wager he'd probably be scum. If he's scum, though, we could start to unravel that picture waaay better as jeremy has to find another target to go after in his slow, lumbering way. The other interesting interaction RedPanda has with someone is with Fuzzy.

Fuzzy has waffled his way around from hell and back, shown vague support for RP getting shot, done nothing else significant. I don't really think that he's scum with RedPanda either, but he's a really solid fucking shot. He's also taken less interest in jeremy than everyone else, which is something to note. I don't like how he acts in #103 with the "shoot me, I know exactly where I'm going", especially consider him pulling the "DON'T SHOOT ME, I DON'T KNOW WHO IS SCUM, don't want to be in that position, don't want to kill someone who doesn't want to die" spiel in mind. Also don't really like #110 because it screams of faking a towntell, and it's also weird what he knows, what he doesn't, and what information he's looking for. He knows that scum choose the gunbearer. He doesn't know they don't have an NK, and he doesn't know that after the gunbearer dies, the townie they were trying to shoot gets the gun. That's just... weird.

[Nachomamma8]

ff... I've been waiting for her move to be more aggression and take more of a leading role in what's going on. Since that's not happening...

I'm bored. I want the gun.

Why do you need the gun in order to make things happen?

The thing that sort of puts me off about you is that I don't recall you particularly wanting the gun.

This is strange. Why is wanting the gun a towntell?

If I had to choose one of these three to shoot, I'd be torn between jeremy and fuzzy. If either or both are scum, then it's good times. If jeremy's town, then I doubt that him having the gun would be a good idea. If town, I think fuzzy would do a better job of scumhunting and shooting.

But, this is consistent in opinions that she's expressed so far. Doesn't necessarily say much, but consistency is nice.

On the third reread I think I see something that could be construed as a slip. I think.

This is a lot of doubt for no real reason. If you see a slip, then push it somehow. If you don't really see it, then you don't. This takes an awkward middle ground.

I'm holding back from replacing out. I didn't realize I wouldn't care much for this game format.

Blaming it on the game format is a really, really convenient excuse. But, if she actually were town, becoming the gunbearer would fix this problem almost immediately.

So, she's taken driveby potshots occasionally, but nothing more. She's given a Syr townread and vaguely supported a Rach shot, but nothing else. She's been entirely useless, but always around, and that's not ever a good sign. If she really hates the game format that much but appreciates the gunbearer role, again, still a good shot. At this point, I'm guessing she's probably scum and would probably shoot her if I had the gun.

[Nachomamma8]

RP said he had a plan. Maybe hes trying to get shot?

Unlikely, based on this:

I'm not going to beg for the gun. I'd rather convince someone to shoot my reads. If I'm going to get shot, I'm going to get shot.

Also the guys who keep going " hey shoot me ! hey shoot me! " should stop. that's like the dumbest way to play this game and people are going to get mixed reads based on that and also it might just cost us the game.

He knows why that's a terrible way to play.

[Nachomamma8]

Hey there RP You gonna help us win again? You were totally fabulous in the last game.

Rach as scum, if anything, is not a shit-talker. This would be a very aggressive opening for her as scum; her typical would be "hello faces I recognize!", it would probably be page 4 or something, and she sure as hell wouldn't try to find a question to ask in order to see what was going on.

wow guys you post a book...

After taking the Vicodin and NS putting in the 2nd does of antibiotics I slept for almost 12 hours. I have an ear infection, but will do my best to keep up here.

I have not played with Messiah before but keep an eye on the MM head of Mini she is very good. I have stalked her games before and she is excellent and fooling peeps when she is scum. Happy to provide a link if you want.... I believe fery was also in that game.

Cute poem there Syr...
I do disagree with you on Majiffy, but he is not even playing in this game. So you gonna troll us all game? BTW yeah I like the popcorn setup and am thinking of modding one, will be happy to let you know when I do. Back to game comments.

Soda has not played in a while and was fairly new when he played before I think I can get a link for that game iffen anyone wants it.

There's also the RL excuses post, which, while Rach had a perfectly valid reason to completely ignore this game, gives input on scum players to watch, asks a scumhunting question to get Syr to post relevant content. It shows a level of engagement that's townish. It's passive, yes, but Rach is not an aggressive player at all.

yeah the gun bearer seems to be awfully late to the party.... Its kinda hard to get into things when we have nothing from that slot...

useless to call the gunbearer out when he's lurking
no reason to do it as scum in the early game

RP could you explain why your list ? And why the order?

Respects RP's scumdar, trying to get more out of him.

I am not getting the Syr town read? But yeah please do tone it down, Syr that really is uncalled for. dude is still a newbie so yeah he is going to make mistakes, plus he might be scum... So yeah...

Her not even comprehending Syr townreads is pretty aggressively calling Syr scum, in her passive Rach way.

I figured the offsite logic was cause dude is brand new to this site Nacho, but has played a lot elsewhere...

So basically he is a newbie as far as things go here with a lot to unlearn...

Serious curiosity when I mention an opinion on jeremy, which shows she's been trying to work him out.

RP you are really sounding like a broken record there...

Picking up on RP's crap play.

I definitely want to hear more from Nacho, he does have a strong record of replacing into scum slots....

This was crazily town. Minimal threatens to shoot her, she shrugs it off, immediately starts getting paranoid of me even though I've been calling her town all game. I'm pretty much her only defender in a cruel world as scum, and here she is telling me that she's still watching me, after everyone else has called me town long ago.

In a more concise way, I can follow Rach's thought process with pretty much every post she makes, she's been ENGAGED in the game, she is playing to her town meta, her response to Minimal's threat is town as shit. Like really, really town. And it frustrates me because Rach is so clearly interacting with the game, engaging, getting into it while ff is... not. And yet Rach tops mostly everyone's shoot lists, while ff is my own personal scumread that I'm feeling better and better about.

[Nachomamma8]

But the problem with RedPanda is he doesn't fit nice with any of my scum suspects. If I had to gamble, I would bet him town and scum being ff/catlord/jeremy/fuzzy. His move of dropping a scumread and not getting a new one was interesting, doesn't really seem like it has any scum motive behind it. He just feels he has strong scum suspects, wants to see which ones flip scum, which ones flip town.

[Nachomamma8]

Ff, all the way.

[Nachomamma8]

Like, if she was gunned down, it would be fun going for inactive town. She's pushed unusually hard against Rach while ignoring other lurkers, which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense unless they were her partners.

If I had to choose one of these three to shoot, I'd be torn between jeremy and fuzzy. If either or both are scum, then it's good times. If jeremy's town, then I doubt that him having the gun would be a good idea. If town, I think fuzzy would do a better job of scumhunting and shooting.

She would also LOVE to be able to push the "oh, incompetent players having the gun is a terrible idea", and that would prevent two scumpartners from getting shot. Fuzzy would be a sacrifice here, but not a useless one.

ff, while rereading through your ISO, I was reminded of this:

I don't usually do seriatim lists. I"ll mull it over.

Any progress?

[Nachomamma8]

I think your summary of my contributions is a little off.

Where?

[Nachomamma8]

@jeremylu sauce for the gander. Why are you pushing for minimal to be shot?

First mention of jeremy, bottom of page 3. Didn't mention him until CTD asked for input.

strong town read on srand. weaker town reads on fuzzy ineffective and syrana.

POE leaves the rest of you and its ordered from scummiest to least.

I agree with your town reads and kinda think I would add you to them. Syryana is a stronger town read than fuzzy and ineffective.

The thing that sort of puts me off about you is that I don't recall you particularly wanting the gun.

First fuzzy mention, didn't mention him again until CTD.

Town: Sodaspirit, Ineffective, Syryana, RedPanda, fuzzybutternut, srand
Mafia: fferyllt, catlord,

sanjay

, jeremy
Null: Minimal (hydras are always null), Rach

Also, soda should shoot as soon as possible.

dude.

There's this mention, and then you call him a townread later.

If you've been on jeremy early, you haven't demonstrated it. Your back and forths on fuzzy, my slot, haven't really been vocalized that much. Hell, our lists are pretty much identical with exception of Rach but my process has been out there, in the open. Yours is almost non-existent.

[Nachomamma8]

unfortunatelly, what usually happens when I do that is I wind up under a cloud of suspicion that isn't quite enough to finish me off until MYLO. I go from bored to hating the world and every mafia player in it when my team loses by mislynching me.

Then let's not drag this out.

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, there's no way we're going to shoot jeremy. I want Catlord dead the most, Marangal wants ffery. If we compromise on a lesser read it's going to be Rach, as I was saying before. I'm considering letting her shoot ffery though.

It will be a wonderful feeling.

[Nachomamma8]

I really am not seeing the scum case on Cat's slot... I think if he were scum, he would just use his RL stuffs to lay low and stay out of the limelight.

He also didn't really care about explaining his leaving thoughts at all; in fact, he seemed pretty content with just getting the fuck out and leaving us nothing.

[Nachomamma8]

Jeremy IS scum, meaning RedPanda IS town. Don't ask me how I know this, I just do.

[Nachomamma8]

analysis

[Nachomamma8]

I really am not seeing the scum case on Cat's slot... I think if he were scum, he would just use his RL stuffs to lay low and stay out of the limelight.

He also didn't really care about explaining his leaving thoughts at all; in fact, he seemed pretty content with just getting the fuck out and leaving us nothing.

also being inactive while you are being fossed ---- excuse or no excuse--- is no way to turn your slot around. If cat is scum the best chance of wining would be a replacement--- much like if cat were town --- i read this as inconsequential

thought on it. I think you are right.
I'm not really that comfortable with Cat as a scumread, so I don't want him shot early...

[Nachomamma8]

Also it's been easy to lose faith in my Rach read. But still, shoot ffery.

[Nachomamma8]

If Jeremy is scum, RP is town. I figure RP is town and jeremy is scum regardless, but the interactions are a bonus.
And you know you've been busy. But you have been neglecting this game a bit

[Nachomamma8]

I wanted to get your reasoning for that cause yeah I am thinking RP is prob town and it kinda confirms my feelings on Jeremy, however clearly both heads of mini disagree...

I want your reasoning. I've been handing out reasoning like candy. Throw me a rope!

[Nachomamma8]

I have a plan

I'm surprised it's taken people this long to start having plans...

[Nachomamma8]

Yes.

[Nachomamma8]

Ineff: Trust me, if I was scum, that post wouldn't look anything like that. I'm not mentally able to, methinks.
Auto-defense mode activates as scum.

Okay, I believe you.

[Nachomamma8]

jk ur still scum that wasn't that convincing

[Nachomamma8]

HALLELUJAH

[Nachomamma8]

don't you prod me

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

lol

Hey Nacho can I prod you :p sounds like fun lol...

You aren't my moderator, so no.

You're scum, Rach, aren't you?

fuzzybutternut
Catlord
Rach Marie
jeremylu

When I made ffery give her reads to me, she gave me my reads with Rach switched in for herself. I don't think that they are partners, and I think that shooting her would be a mistake.

[Nachomamma8]

Also it's partially the links between you and jeremy, cause he is scummy as fuck and if he is scum, you are scum.

shoot jeremy, then shoot this, then shoot fuzzy

[Nachomamma8]

Shit, I thought he was scum.

fucking kill this, please

[Nachomamma8]

and jeremy, but especially that

[Nachomamma8]

His actions seem like agressive town... But you shot right last time....

I thought Jason was a townread. Why didn't you defend him?

[Nachomamma8]

Jason, read the game.

[Nachomamma8]

Then replace out? The more recent pages are much more important than the beginning 16.

[Nachomamma8]

Then as long as you don't shoot Syryana, everything's okay.

[Nachomamma8]

His actions seem like agressive town... But you shot right last time....

I thought Jason was a townread. Why didn't you defend him?

i did in an apathetic way... I was kinda disheartened from defending ffer and having her flip scum--- wasnt confident in my ability to accurately read town--- and have had heaps of other frustrations in a couple other games--- also i didnt townread catlord(his slot) in the least--- so i wasnt about to defend that slot too hard considering i could be wrong very easily--- so i just posted my impression and left it at that

Why did one townread flipping wrong completely dishearten you?

[Nachomamma8]

And yeah, you

could

be wrong but there were plenty of other shots you could've pushed and felt better about, right?

[Nachomamma8]

The fact you didn't just do that automatically seems scummy, you realize that right?

if you shoot syryana i'll gut you

[Nachomamma8]

btw just so everyone is aware, if i shoot fuzzy and he flips scum i will instantaneously shoot my highest scum read.

I don't care how annoying that is.

if your highest scumread is ineffective, i guess i don't care

[Nachomamma8]

Wait youd really rather see me shot over rach?

Also... If fuzzy is scum and you are town you shouldnt really care who is shot after fuzzy... Bc if you arnt shot its auto and i dont think anyone would shoot you

Yes, I would. Because Rach is a townread of mine and I would rather a townread die than a townread who's lost a bit of that faith. And I will always care who is shot. If I didn't, there would be no reason for me to be playing this game, right?

Also that post gives me pause bc i feel like you are fishing for his highest scumread

Why does that give you pause?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm in favor of shooting one of the top two moreso than Jason since we just nailed scum and we're 6v3.

This pushes Syryana higher up into my townreads, considering that the other two are probably both scum.

His actions seem like agressive town... But you shot right last time....

I thought Jason was a townread. Why didn't you defend him?

i did in an apathetic way... I was kinda disheartened from defending ffer and having her flip scum--- wasnt confident in my ability to accurately read town--- and have had heaps of other frustrations in a couple other games--- also i didnt townread catlord(his slot) in the least--- so i wasnt about to defend that slot too hard considering i could be wrong very easily--- so i just posted my impression and left it at that

Why did one townread flipping wrong completely dishearten you?

Why did you take the word "kinda" and replace it for "completely"????

Rhetoric benefit.

EG me as town is active if finding and lynching scum when i am in good mental fitness

Me as scum is active in lynching and decieving townies when i am in good mental fitness

Me as a player on this site has had a few games that have turned sour on me and me as a player had a slump for a day. I cannot specifically reference ongoing games but i think you will find a couple examples of this if you look

You're panicking a little bit. Why?

Im gunna ISO fuzzy and revisit all the posts that alarmed me--- if you shoot anyone but fuzzy i will be really confused

Why the aggressive push to fuzzy so suddenly?

Fuzzy make a compelling case as to why i shouldn't shoot you

@ everyone else, i am giving 24 hours before i shoot, say whatever you need to say.

Please don't hipfire after you shoot fuzzy. We can take time with this and it won't hurt you any.

Compelling case?
Umm, I don't know who scum is, and I don't want to be shot. I'd like for you to survive, also.

I would say try harder than this, but.

What you call "universally indicative of scum posting" is actually not.

Stop scum raging. You called it an implied admittance that I was scum, and it wasn't.

So fuzzy, you think Ineffective is scum?

[Nachomamma8]

So you don't have a scumread on Ineffective?

[Nachomamma8]

Where are these reads coming from in particular (especially the Serra read)?

[Nachomamma8]

>.>

[Nachomamma8]

I feel like i did a really good job for the position i was in and the game was near unwinnable

you did fucking fantastically
good game guys

I was hoping I was replacing into a scum slot because my dream is to win this setup as scum. Maybe next time, I guess.

[Nachomamma8]

This post removed due to oppressive mod censorship.

[Nachomamma8]

oh fucking hell, ignore that