Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay.

Got about halfway through page 2 and there was WAY too much setup spec so skipped the rest. Setup spec is bad, especially this early, because you either give away what role you went for or you play scummy and try hide it. Lies, even of omission, shouldn't happen from town, and it's not the right time to massclaim.

Also @ anyone who metas me and has a question they really shouldn't ask me, the answer is either "Yes" or "No", depending on what you ask. And this is probably way too blatant.

Following venrob - I've played this setup a TON since 472. And 472 was really, really dumb. I seem to remember one game having the 2nd pick scum try for jailkeeper and get VT - like, you can't check how many times scum pick a role you have to check how many times a role is picked as scum. If that makes sense? Also, for those interested in looking there was a recent PyP that got abandoned, ummm... Open 567

Also, sheeping math

VOTE: amy farrah fowler

Pedit: Welp.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What? Am I not accountable for sheeping?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Siveure is being Siveure.

YAAAAAY.

Scratch the entire vig discussion then. However, I still think all this applies to vengeful. If someone claims vengeful, we should immediately start voting on who they should shoot IMO. And... scream at them if they don't shoot town's choice?

I think trying to get people to follow a majority decided plan for vigs is naive. Expecting it for vengefuls is absolutely insane, because there's no incentive at all for them to follow you. If I was a vengeful and a conf-town told me who to shoot and I had a scum read, I'd be running off my own read. And what you're proposing is worse than that, because a majority of players is not conf-town. And town will probably be/get a little apathetic on voting for something that isn't guaranteed at all.

I'm kindof seeing what droog sees on math and not really of a mind that it's anything other than paranoia. What he's doing can be scum but overly helpful townie can just as easily be town. More null than anything.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I don't think people understand how daytalk works when they're scum.

It really, really shouldn't impact people's play, and if it does it'll be minute.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Help I don't know what to post.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Me.

I don't have a clue what to say.

Don't really like the way math distances from the amy wagon after leaving it...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I did a quick search, Amy's not experienced,

let's take that off the table.

About math's distancy stuff, this.

Oh.



Let's take this off the table.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I think the logout bug is solved by clearing your cookies from history or something like that.

A reads list from me would be rushed and fake and wrong. Nope.

hmm, actually kinda like davesaz so far.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

About dave, his play looks town and it also doesn't look rote. In particular I like #178.

It's a light read, but it's definitely enough to make me not want to go near him for a couple days.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

UNVOTE: amy farrah fowler

Really not feeling this wagon any more.

I don't think conflicting or contradictory opinions makes her scummy, and there's not an enormous amount otherwise.

Also, Anen's latest post looks really confbiasy. So what if she's not scumhunting?

IN OTHER NEWS, dave has put down a non-rvs vote. This is BIG NEWS. Lets support this!

VOTE: wgeurts

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I'm of the opinion there are a great many players who don't have a clue how to scumhunt. I'm one of them. Scumreading someone purely for not scumhunting is dumb. Of course, there are scum ways and town ways of not scumhunting.

Besides that, I don't really get why I'm being voted lol.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

In relation to my discrediting math, look at my #199. That whole fiasco was completely based off me being an idiot and misunderstanding math's post, (that he was invoking her meta/experience level to dissolve the wagon) and I later realized what he actually meant (that her meta was irrelevant to the discussion).

Also, Ank, why are you scumreading dave?

Amy, anen, NOBODY except you two find either of you scummy. If you really want the other guy lynched, you'll need to engage everyone else, and not just be arguing with the "scum".

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay. The real reason my wgeurts vote is scummy is because the amy unvote only happened then. From like #170 to my unvote was basically this

i was going to unvote amy because i dont have a strong scumread there
then i realized i dont have any stronger scumreads

And yeah, my townread on dave is because he hasn't done any obvious town stuff. He has very little content, but he is not lurking at all. Or maybe it's the opposite, that he's lurking but still producing some content? Idk. It's kinda gut, and kindof the terms I'm using being so ill-defined.

Pedit: aw noooo... Don't tell me that I said something I thought was innocuous but the whole game takes as a scumslip again. Yuck.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You missed the again in the p-edit. Tbh, realized after I posted it that it is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The two reasons I give both work, depending on how you define lurking and content. And thats kindof the issue with them.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I am very bad at revising reads, so I'm trying to avoid committing to them too early.

I'm reasonably confident in davesaz for day 1. It's not a read I'd be taking to lylo.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

If I flip town? I'm definitely flipping then?

Also, I was kindof weirded out at the start of the game because I am actually vanilla.

Wait, I need to reread to check role stuffs...

Welp, nothing coming out of that.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So you know your play is so bad it hurts you as Town, but instead of trying to fix it and get better, you try to excuse yourself like some kind of VI?

This is my attempt to fix my play.

Then you say it's ok for other players to not scumhunt. How exactly do you expect Town to find Scum? If you're Town you really need to step up your game.

Unless there's direct, played before meta, Luck. IMO scumhunting mostly comes down to chance/playstyle if you don't intimately know the difference between someone's scumplay and townplay.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Should probably get off wgeurts, but there's STILL no competing wagons lol.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

The premature claim is because I suspect the wagon will quickly go to l-1...

Tbh, I panic if I think there's a case on me. There were at least 3. Math sounded (and still does) like this was the lynch wagon.

Math, if first pick is scum, they're a good scum pr. Don't let someone being first pick stop you if you think they're scum.

And anen, please give me more credit than that. I've breadcrumbed it for you if you really want to know.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

@Siveure. You posted that you're vanilla. If you told which role had you gone for, would it help the town more than the scum? If so, please tell us the role you wanted to get!

Anen, this. I was doing this anyway. Saying this is utterly redundant.

Math, Alchemist, you are misinterpreting "you". I'm not worried about the breadcrumb being found by scum lol.

Also

VOTE: alchemist

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Lol. That vote is part sheeping and part me doubting doctor is priority for top 3 as town but believing it of roleblocker.

Also @ anyone who metas me and has a question they really shouldn't ask me, the answer is either "Yes" or "No", depending on what you ask. And this is probably way too blatant.

It's this.

The questions are "Did you go for doctor again?" and "Are you a doctor again?" respectively.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I was planning on checking siv's ISO in Open 472, and didn't want a lynch while i was gone. Figured better safe than sorry.

My results from ISO'ing him show that he is a hell of a lot more active post-wise in this game than 472

, though actual content in posts isn't much better. He was scum jailkeeper that game, (which was this same setup), and lasted to the day before lylo. Of course his scumbuddy Ser Arthur Dayne had everyone thinking of him as the towniest person, so town lost anyway that game.

His play is similar between these 2 games, and he was scum in that one. VOTE: Siv

Loooool.

Not getting noticed was the entire plan to my play in 472. It worked, up until lylo and cop claimed and "hey, scum is in these 4 players. Siv has done absolutely nothing, for the entire game, at all. That's scum."

You CANNOT legitimately claim I'm scum because my play is similar to 472, because it just isn't.

Well, a weird part of me was about to throw out an argument against the jailkeeper based on me flipping scum. Don't think I have much to offer right now.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also if by some miracle the doc is town, the best move for scum is probably to nightkill below me in the draft.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Very much appreciate the low number of groups to go through. This, people, is why you don't pick 9001 or 42.

Well screw you too.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also if by some miracle the doc is town, the best move for scum is probably to nightkill below me in the draft.

Regardless of what scum would do, town doc has to protect low, I mean. They're either shooting the doc or low.

And this quote is actually stupidly scummy.

I wish I wasn't getting lynched so I could actually explain that at a good time dangit.

Anen, nobody asked the question. The point of answering them was purely to crumb.

Oh no. I'm going into setup breaking mode. Frak.

Hmm. I'm legitimately questioning whether anen is actually this dumb. And I'm a little sick of sheeping by now.

VOTE: aneninen

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Why are defensive fishy overreactions only a scum thing to do?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I want townpoints for consistency

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Math, what's so different about my wagon as opposed to wgeurts's and amy's that you switch off them easily and don't off me?

Farside, your read on me is?

Scumreading flubber and claiming his V/LA is suspicious is insanity. He's not going V/LA in the one game he's scum in and staying active on the rest of the site.

Wait. Actually put some thought into the alchemist case and lol. That is actually scummy by siv's narrow definition of scummy.

VOTE: alchemist

Anyway I'm gonna lurk for a couple days until the wagon disappears. See you all on day 2!

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Amy, the point of calling you a hypocrite is that everything you called him scummy for you did yourself. Which I kindof agree with.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Uh.

My wagon hasn't hit more resistance than wgeurts' or amy's. Just mine has stuck around way longer.

My scumreads are like:

Alchemist: He is telegraphing his play in a way that makes it completely ineffectusl.
Aneninen: This is mostly him posting stupid and redundant questions that don't really sit well with me.
Romitelli: Yup. For lurking.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

For wgeurts.

Okay, having a little time I try to do something useful.

@Siveure. Who asked the question you answered the crumb for and where?

@Siveure. You posted that you're vanilla. If you told which role had you gone for, would it help the town more than the scum? If so, please tell us the role you wanted to get!

UNVOTE:
What if that was a town-flail from Amy?

Okay. I was going to make a big point here about how forced meta is utter crap, and how I was absolutely not going to try meta from games I didn't play in, but uh... I actually mostly lost the scumread on anen in isoing him.

Wait, alchemist. Yeah, not going into any meta on that.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Siv
I'm a lot more confident in my vote on him. I've looked at 5 of his games (Go to his wiki for a small (outdated?) list.).
As scum he plays as he is now, not following the game as much (his not knowing what to post and lurking.) catching up occasionally. As town he's a lot more active, you can see in his posts his train of thought. As town he is also a lot more invested and he seems to follow the game a lot more.

Okay, three things.

1) Have I lurked this game?
2) Thanks for reminding me to update my wiki. (Yes it's outdated, but not by much. I went on hiatus for a while in late 2013 - early 2014 so there are literally no games to put in for like 6-9 months)
3) My train of thought is usually imo both transparent and as town, weird as hell, so effectively opaque because nobody thinks town-siv would think what town-siv thinks. As scum it's just pushing a scum agenda.

Pedit: wtf?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Uh?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Holy crap my wiki was outdated before I went on hiatus. YIKES.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I still think wgeurts is town for this though.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Votecount 1.7

Siveure DtTrikyp

(5): wgeurts, Mathdino, Alchemist21, Ankamius, davesaz

wgeurts

(2): Siveure DtTrikyp, Flubbernugget

Aneninen

(2): Amy Farrah Fowler, droog

Alchemist21

(1): farside22

Flubbernugget

(1): Venrob

Not Voting

(3): Aneninen, TheAdrienC, Romitelli

So this is when my wagon really gets going.

Votecount 1.11

Siveure DtTrikyp

(5): Alchemist21, Ankamius, davesaz, Venrob, wgeurts

Alchemist21

(3): Siveure DtTrikyp, farside22, Mathdino

Aneninen

(2): Amy Farrah Fowler, droog

wgeurts

(1): Flubbernugget

Flubbernugget

(1): TheAdrienC

Not Voting

(2): Aneninen, Romitelli

And this is the most recent vote-count.

If you don't count the non-siv wagons, which tbh really havent done much, there's been very little progress in the past 3-4 days. 10 players' votes are in the same place lol (sure, some of them probably moved in the meantime, but not more than 1 or 2). Wgeurts is trying to do something to get the game going again. It's not going to work, but he's trying. Actually, file adrien under that too.

On that note, can people please do stuff? Like, stop screwing around on vanity wagons waiting for everyone else to see the light and make them see it? Something?

Flubber, it depends on the game in particular but the self-preservation mentality probably has to do with the pressure I'm under.

Adrien, afaict the case on me is similar stuff to what you're pushing flubber for. I think..

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Why the hell is ANY of the stuff you called out on me scummy?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

^ That's @ alchemist btw.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, legit question, why don't we lynch romitelli?

VOTE: romitelli

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also pretty sure math's list isn't ordered by scumminess.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, why am I assuming that?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, legit question, why don't we lynch romitelli?

VOTE: romitelli

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I don't expect ANYONE to go for doctor, the whole way down. There was one game where i sabotaged my draft phase and ended up like 2nd last and got doctor. That the top 3 happens to contain the doc/roleblocker is WEIRD. There's been like one game where someone who wasn't me went for doctor or roleblocker, I think. And I only go for it because usually nobody else does.

Idk why doctor isn't picked, but it rarely is.

Advocating a lack of scumhunting is controversial. It's not scummy just because it's controversial. Why is it more likely from scum than town?

Like, if it just gets suspicion and does nothing else, it's indicative of a lack of foresight. Which alignment is more likely to not plan ahead how people react to their words? Especially something controversial?

I have no idea what dave and anka are arguing about at all.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Math, thanks. I need to break that habit.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, math, why is alchemist/dave unlikely?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Because tbh my dave read is BS and going to get revised seriously if I get to day 3 or so.

I don't want to go near him until then.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay then

VOTE: alchemist

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Don't like any of anen's "look at everyone". IIoA applies, and the way he's bringing up new stuff on me reads to me like scum trying to appear to contribute.

Idk how serious a vote should be.

Although I don't really want to point at anyone who's simultaneously scumreading me and nearly everyone who is or was on my wagon.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

It was mostly 178 tbh.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, @ 582. I don't really remember.

My read on alchemist basically progressed like this.

1) Pure sheepage of math, no thought applied.
2) Eh, w/e, let's go on anen b/c reasons
3) Oooh, math's case actually works (Post 425. Exactly. Every post after that is then)
4) Does it really matter whether he's scummy or not? It's not like anyone reads my stuff anyway. I thought he was scummy before, he's probably scummy.

So yeah, currently I don't actually have a clue why I'm voting alchemist.

UNVOTE: alchemist
VOTE: aneninen

I don't think this has to be a compromise lynch tbh.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Tbh, math's behaviour makes sense from a town point of view. I mean, you can go ahead and say "look at all his weak reads, why are there no better reads?" and also "why is he so creeped out by wagons he starts, doesn't he want his wagons to go big?" but the second is kindof answered by the first.

@droog, my claim?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Because I like to breadcrumb stuff.

Idk?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay.

This is stalling. And I'd really like to not get lynched.

VOTE: alchemist]

Would MUCH rather aneninen, but idk if anyone else would.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

okay

VOTE: aneninen

I'll give this a day.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Anen's a scumread because he looks like scum trying to appear active while having very little content. His posts and individual points are wishy washy and fence-sitty of themselves, which I doubt comes from town.

The main post that got me onto him was 529, mostly where he did the read on me.

Siveure.

Am I the only one who thinks that his crumb which was:

"Also @ anyone who metas me and has a question they really shouldn't ask me, the answer is either "Yes" or "No", depending on what you ask. And this is probably way too blatant."

– could mean anything? That "Yes" or "No" is a possible answer for many things.

He said that he would lurk until the wagon would disappear (425) but it hasn't happened.

Worried about the stall of the game in 480 and that didn't happen in the abandoned game I met him. I didn't like 503 either, Doc

could

be chosen by the first three players in the draft. Lean scum–probably scum.

Why is the bolded there (also, there are two bits of bold right next to each other... um..., underlining the second)? I'm assuming it's so anen can be like "Look how much new stuff I'm posting! Aren't I so active!" when really, he just restated stuff that happened in a suspicious voice. (tbh, the lurking post was just there so that I could catch people confbiasing. When someone not on the wagon brought it up it was kinda weird)

The rest of the post either says nothing with no words or says nothing with a whole bunch of words.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay.

I want to lynch anen still. Probably b/c I'm the only VT up for lynch and i'd rather anen's pr shenanigans that don't seem extremely town than alchemist who almost certainly got a pr.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I will probably be on again in the next 22 hours, so not moving my vote yet.

Would really...

wtf am I thinking? anen isn't happening, and i'd REALLY rather it not be me.

VOTE: alchemist

Pedit: yeah not actually going onto alch over anen if it's at all avoidable.

VOTE: aneninen

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Why are we voting for alchemist
Who has no formal cases
Over amen
Who has sone

Reiterating this, and I'd also like to add that Anen literally claimed that he picked a role to screw with scum. He's 6th in the draft, so probably most of the priority stuff is gone (maybe one or two things slipped through), so he's not going to be much of a help to town OR we lynch all liars applies.

If what he says is true, he doesn't have a good pr, and confirmable doesn't mean town in this setup at all. And if it's false, why would we leave him around?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also, very few people on the scum side go roleblocker. I think - people just look at the slot and then look at jailkeeper and think "that's just way better" and apart from a very particular range of picks everyone just goes for their preference pick.

Idk.

I take back the whole doc/rb is def scum thingy but if there's a scum jk in top 3 there's superlikely a scum rb in top 3.

Pedit: Why not aneninen?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

yeah the omgus is why i'm assuming top 3 scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

??????????????

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I liked insanity's modding.

Didn't like being the compromise lynch.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also the thing was on D1 i was going to fake being ready to hammer alchemist and let it no-lynch if he went, so can't actually complain given there was no lynch I really wanted.