Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[Green Crayons]

GC, I am not lynching farside either. I doubt Day 1 was all scum bickering over lynching themselves.

VOTE: Riddleton

lol

Refusing to believe that scum would bicker between themselves on D1 as a distancing tactic, but all-in on believing that Riddle-scum bussed both of his scum buddies (4th on D2 Beli-wagon; 2nd on D3 scrambles-wagon).

That makes all sense in the world.


Also, I just ISOed you Titus. You went from repeatedly stating that Riddle was very likely town to saying that Riddle was one of two or three scum candidates without any actual explanation of the change in stance.

You act as if that is mutually exclusive. My townread has softened but my read on him because of his play.

It's the fact that making a lot of noise about voting a scumbuddy and actually voting to lynch a scumbuddy serve the same purpose: distancing. It's just that the former is a safer version of it than the latter, but you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of actually helping to thin their own numbers.

[Green Crayons]

Also, Titus, although you didn't directly answer my question about why you shifted your position on Riddle, is it that process of elimination outweighs his play that you repeatedly recognized as fairly protown?

[Green Crayons]

It's the fact that making a lot of noise about voting a scumbuddy and actually voting to lynch a scumbuddy serve the same purpose: distancing. It's just that the former is a safer version of it than the latter, but you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of actually helping to thin their own numbers.

Clarification: It's not that I don't think that scum hasn't bussed this game, it's just that you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of voting-to-lynch

both

of their scum buddies over the notion that scum took other distancing actions that had less impact on their actual numbers.

farside's play looks much more like someone who didn't want to bus (refused to vote Beli despite constantly saying how bad Beli's play was, going so far as to say that either Beli or chaos was scum), but then when the second scum was on the chopping block but shy of a majority vote, thought a bus to push him over the edge would net her town points.

[Green Crayons]

CKD, you're not allowed to unvote your self vote until you do some goddamn scum hunting.

~*~ So sayeth GC, Ambassador to the thread from the Asshole Kingdom. ~*~

[Green Crayons]

Titus is still likely town, because she has no reason to chase a really bad Riddle vote and bring attention onto herself like that.

[Green Crayons]

@Riddle:

If CKD is town, and I am town, who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: farside
VOTE: CKD

I know for a fact that I am town, and I think I have played less scummy than farside. I will be happy to try to convince you that farside is more likely scum than myself if CKD is in fact town.

[Green Crayons]

Jesus. Me not putting "assuming you and farside survive the night, because obviously if farside dies she is clearly not scum, and because obviously if Riddle dies I can't convince him of anything" after my comments, when such taglines are fucking implied, is not indicative of my alignment.

It's indicative of you being dense.

[Green Crayons]

Both Titus's and CDB's timing and placement on the Beli wagon could easily be read as a bus. That's all well and good in a vacuum, but that's not the only relevant scum vote. Neither of them looked like they were bussing a partner when it came to scrambles.

Titus's play style admittedly allows her to be a sneaky scum. Going after Riddle is anathema to being scum with Titus's play style generally and how it has manifested in this game.

Titus isn't scum.

[Green Crayons]

@farside:

Titus isn't scum. Riddle isn't scum. Out of the remaining three players, who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

also you are voting me, so shouldnt this be?

It's indicative of you being

dense

scummy.

Every mistake in logic a scum candidate says is not scummy. Sometimes it's just a lapse in thinking.

[Green Crayons]

Also, I just ISOed you Titus. You went from repeatedly stating that Riddle was very likely town to saying that Riddle was one of two or three scum candidates without any actual explanation of the change in stance.

Also, Titus, although you didn't directly answer my question about why you shifted your position on Riddle, is it that process of elimination outweighs his play that you repeatedly recognized as fairly protown?

[Green Crayons]

I did. Riddle's buddying of me eviscerated the townread.

But:

Buddying you? lol, OK.

I've suspected GC & CKD both long before you had your same suspicions via VCA. I'm agreeing with you because I think you're town (See #2167)

I did a quick skim of y'all's ISOs to verify.

- Riddle first suspected GC in Post 1767. Titus first suspected GC in Post 1881. He beats you to the GC suspicions.

- Riddle first hard pushed for CKD (earlier vote notwithstanding) in Post 1076. Titus was still claiming CKD as town in Post 1056. I didn't see you claiming CKD being scum in that twenty post gap, so he beat you to the CKD suspicions as well.

[Green Crayons]

You've included three quotes where Riddle is defending/talking about farside.

I don't see the over the top part. He repeats why he doesn't think you're scum to people who keep saying you're scum, and engages you in some conversation.

[Green Crayons]

I don't follow you at all.

-----

Riddle and Titus are town. That leaves CKD, CDB, and farside.

Farside is most likely scum. Nobody but Amy (dang it) agreed with me on this. Between CKD and CDB, I'm going to have to go with CKD.

[Green Crayons]

Why is Riddle town? All I see is buddying.

If you believe I am town, you believe farside and CDB are town.

Riddle has provided competent analysis, while also being a steady scrambles vote that would be an unnecessary bus.


If I believe that you are town, all I believe is that you are town. Not that you are correct on your town reads.

Your only basis for holding farside to be town is that you don't think Beli-scum would have attacked farside-scum for voting scrambles-scum on D1. I've explained repeatedly why I actually think that was a solid distinacing tactic by our three scum.

[Green Crayons]

If you think CKD is first or second most likely to be scum, then you should vote CKD today.

If you think CKD is only fourth of fifth likely to be scum, then you shouldn't vote CKD at all.

The middle spot - third most likely to be scum - is where it gets tricky. If CKD gets lynched today and flips town, the worst that will happen from your position is that your first two candidates for scum will survive the two NKs, along with yourself, thereby requiring you to reevaluate your reads.

[Green Crayons]

Riddleton has not provided analysis. Saying xyz is town is not analysis. Buddying is not analysis.

This is literally the case acryon made against you back on D3.

[Green Crayons]

You have just said distancing. My vca has never been wrong on conftown. Farside is town.

Yes I just said dinstancing. And?

Your VCA was literally "Beli-scum attacked farside for voting scrambles-scum, QED farside is town." Neat?

First time for everything.

[Green Crayons]

Sorry, I know I'm very behind on making a meaningful contribution Today. Ever since acryon claimed, I've not had much to latch onto in this game and the big arguments at the moment are just making me annoyed rather than intrigued. I'm going to be busy tomorrow but this game will be my first priority when I'm back,

starting by rereading the scum lynches to look for buddies

.

Hey I've written about that:

Justifications for a farside vote:

....

(2)

My vote on scramble is for 2 reasons, 1) no one else is voting acryon (2)deadline is coming up in a few hours and a no lynch is not helpful.

This comment is suspicious for two reasons.

(a)

farside, like myself, was under the misconception that a failure to get a majority at the time of the deadline would result in a no lynch. (CKD pointed out my misconception of the actual rule at the beginning of today.) Therefore, farside-scum would be under the impression that her vote would actually contribute to scrambles' lynch (it wouldn't, because scrambles already had the most votes on him, and it didn't look like CDB was going to be surpassing scrambles' vote count per Post 1625).

farside had adamently refused to vote Beli on D1 and D2 -- even though Beli had pursued farside with an unnatural conviction and self-cetainty, and with a case that farside has herself said was really bad -- and so has been lacking in town cred. One way to up her cred would be to join the wagon on the sinking ship of a scummate. Hence, the late vote on the scrambles wagon.

(I go on to explain how farside's scrambles vote, at the time it was made at the end of the day, is actually pretty suspicious in and of itself regardless of the bussing aspect.)

[Green Crayons]

gc: I recalled you pushing a lynch day 4 and day 5 on me.
I was wondering why you stated the following

just answer the question though...I am hung, flip town..you get little or less from Amy today...lets say she doesnt join my wagon. will you be voting her tomorrow (all things constant)?

Probably farside before Amy, assuming absolutely nothing happens with those players between now and then.

But voted for amy anyways?

I mean, the answer is literally right there when I voted for Amy:

Sigh.


After today, especially late game day, CKD looks pretty town. I guess his play today could be a gambit -- "let me throw myself upon the mercy of the town with plenty of LYNCH ME's" -- but I really don't think so. Couple that with

how

he went about not voting Beli (hard defense) and scrambles (actually appeared to inquire into the merits of a scrambles vote, even after scrambles was locked into the lynch via the most-votes-absent-majority rule), I think CKD is town.

I also think CDB looks lean town. Scum wouldn't bank on "forgetting" a pretty vital rule to excuse play. His reasons for unvoting CKD to vote Amy don't strike me as suspicious -- I myself have said that I have X-number of lynch candidates, and I don't particularly care what order they get lynched in. scrambles refusal to vote CDB is weird, and not something I'm just forgetting. But that alone isn't going to really do it for me.

That leaves me with farside and Amy.

Nobody appears willing to join Amy and I on farside. Fine. UNVOTE: farside, VOTE: Amy. She really has become the lurker queen, and has failed to really participate at all this game day. I wouldn't want her at LYLO because of that, as it would be a serious knock against her towniness.

[Green Crayons]

Here was my pool of acceptable lynches yesterday: farside, CDB, CKD, and Amy.

By the end of yesterday, I thought CDB and CKD were bad lynches. Thus I was down to farside and Amy. Nobody wants to kill most likely scum farside, so I go for my other option, Amy, for the reasons stated.

Then today begins up. NOBODY JOINS ME ON FARSIDE FOR NO GOOD GODDAMN REASON. Seriously it's aggravating.

So since that's not gong through, I return to my other two options: CDB and CKD. I don't really know which of them is more likely to be scum than the other, so I vote for CKD since people are actually voting him and at least one of the players (Riddle) who is doing so accepts the fact that if CKD and I am not scum, then farside is scum. Since I know for a fact that I am not scum, and if CKD flips and ends up not being scum, then I at least have one other person I can try to convince that I am actually town and farside is indeed the scum I think she is.

[Green Crayons]

And the more I think about it since I've voted CKD, the more I think that CDB is least probable to be scum out of CDB, CKD, and farside.

[Green Crayons]

This is the stupidest argument.

[Green Crayons]

I don't know if you're being willfully ignorant of the context in which the statement was made, or just throwing shit at the wall to avoid being lynched as scum.

I set up a logical progression: Riddle accepts the conclusion that farside is scum if (1) CKD flips town and (2) I am town. I therefore set up the points to get to that conclusion by stating (1) if CKD flips town and (2) I know I am town, thus I will be able to get Riddle to the conclusion.

[Green Crayons]

lol

"I'm ignoring why you said what you said, which demolishes my theory of town not needing to say what you said, now show me a case where you said this magical phrase."

[Green Crayons]

YOU SHOULDNT NEED TO SAY THAT as TOWN, it is odd phrasing for someone who is "town" to say.

I don't know if you're being willfully ignorant of the context in which the statement was made, or just throwing shit at the wall to avoid being lynched as scum.

I set up a logical progression: Riddle accepts the conclusion that farside is scum if (1) CKD flips town and (2) I am town. I therefore set up the points to get to that conclusion by stating (1) if CKD flips town and (2) I know I am town, thus I will be able to get Riddle to the conclusion.

[Green Crayons]

Because it's a shitty basis for suspicion. I don't need to provide a counter example, because it's worthless on it's own. You're saying that I have a magic phrase that has persisted over years of playing mafia that reveals I am scum. You're also ignoring the context of when and how I used the phrase in the previous game with how I used the phrase in this game.

[Green Crayons]

See this bugs the shit out of me because I don't think CKD is scum and now I'm paranoid you are setting up mislynches for a scum win

And how is this me setting up mislynches?

[Green Crayons]

The logical progression is that Riddle has accepted that IF CKD is town and IF GC is town, THEN farside is scum.

[Green Crayons]

I don't know if I've ever used POE, with myself as part of needing to be eliminated from the pool of suspects, to explain to someone why another player is scum. And I'm not going to look at my old games because it's effort to counter a bad basis for suspicion in the first place.

[Green Crayons]

lol @ you lolling at POE

Man if you're not scum, I'm reserving all rights to be snarky as fuck come end game.

[Green Crayons]

confirm

vote green crayons.

nailed you.

man, if someone I supposedly thought was scum, had a case against me that was false,

I would at least try to attempt to show that he was either wrong

or deliberately scummy. But you are not doing it. Kind of like what you are accusing farside of doing on the scrambles wagon. If you think I am scum, please...show everybody how scummy/wrong I am...please. this is your chance...

YOU SHOULDNT NEED TO SAY THAT as TOWN, it is odd phrasing for someone who is "town" to say.

I don't know if you're being willfully ignorant of the context in which the statement was made, or just throwing shit at the wall to avoid being lynched as scum.

I set up a logical progression: Riddle accepts the conclusion that farside is scum if (1) CKD flips town and (2) I am town. I therefore set up the points to get to that conclusion by stating (1) if CKD flips town and (2) I know I am town, thus I will be able to get Riddle to the conclusion.

Because it's a shitty basis for suspicion. I don't need to provide a counter example, because it's worthless on it's own. You're saying that I have a magic phrase that has persisted over years of playing mafia that reveals I am scum. You're also ignoring the context of when and how I used the phrase in the previous game with how I used the phrase in this game.

The logical progression is that Riddle has accepted that IF CKD is town and IF GC is town, THEN farside is scum.

[Green Crayons]

The only thing I have refused to do is search my previous games for when I have ever used the magical phrase "I know for a fact."

[Green Crayons]

The reason: because EVEN IF the only time I have ever used that phrase, prior to this game, was five fucking years ago (lol seriously? I just clicked to the game that CKD linked) when I was scum, it does not mean that I am scum in this game.

[Green Crayons]

lol

[Green Crayons]

Yup, that sure is town. Let me tell you what.

[Green Crayons]

Now that I have finished up with some work, I can address this.

See this bugs the shit out of me because I don't think CKD is scum and now I'm paranoid you are setting up mislynches for a scum win

And how is this me setting up mislynches?

Nice try there. I noticed you focus on one sentence. I started off saying I'm not scum reading CKD.
Now please explain why you went to lynch Amy and now vote for CKD over me, especially yesterday and how the vote count was looking.
There was 2 votes on me. I was the one pushing Amy the hardest as scum. And from what I have seen, town is stubborn as shit when it comes to scum reads.

1. I focused on the only part of your single sentence that has any point: that I'm "setting up mislynches."
2. You avoid answering my question: how am I setting up mislynches? Great job on avoiding explaining yourself.
3. Whether you think CKD is or isn't scum isn't relevant to you thinking I'm setting up mislynches. Great job on deflecting.
4. I've repeatedly explained why I switched from you to Amy yesterday, and from you to CKD today.

NOBODY WILL VOTE FARSIDE WITH ME. I HAVE MORE THAN ONE SUSPECT IN THE LYNCH POOL. THEREFORE I AM WILLING TO VOTE TO LYNCH OTHERS IN MY LYNCH POOL WHO ARE NOT FARSIDE.

Hey look, I put it in bold and caps. Now you can't pretend you didn't read it, again. (Who am I kidding, I expect the question "why did you switch from farside to Amy, and farside to CKD?" five more times before the game is through.)

Did you notice if there was any other words he used as scum or town when meta searching?

confirm

vote green crayons.

nailed you.

man, if someone I supposedly thought was scum, had a case against me that was false, I would at least try to attempt to show that he was either wrong or deliberately scummy. But you are not doing it. Kind of like what you are accusing farside of doing on the scrambles wagon. If you think I am scum, please...show everybody how scummy/wrong I am...please. this is your chance...

I don't see him saying anything that implies you as scum. He is saying the case is shit and talking it out. Not hey this case is shit and you are scum.

1. "Hey did you find any other magic phrases that would show GC is scum?"
2. Coupled with keeping a distance on actually embracing that horrible line of suspicion CKD is pushing.

[Green Crayons]

If CDB came in here and said that he wants to vote farside 100%, I will switch in a heartbeat. Since that is unlikely in light of his commentary this entire game, I'm not going to waste my vote on farside while we have people like Titus pushing Riddle of all people and (prior to her not-surprising-in-the-slightest GC suspicions) farside pushing Titus.

[Green Crayons]

If you are actually town, and the only basis for thinking I'm scum is because I think that you're scum, then you are saying I am scum because I am incorrect in reading your alignment.

[Green Crayons]

Which is BS for all the obvious reasons.

[Green Crayons]

Riddle if you do end up being scum, well played.

QFT.

[Green Crayons]

So, Riddle, is CKD putting himself at L-1 still part of his gambit?

If he's scum, he's literally relying solely upon WIFOM to stop his lynch. There's at least one more likely candidate for today - myself - that he could probably convince at least Titus to join over Riddle, to add to his and farside's votes.

Like, it's a pretty bad scum strategy.

[Green Crayons]

That's true. But then there's suboptimal scum play, and then there's just really bad play.

(shrug)

I guess this would be the logical conclusion of the tactic he has adopted.

[Green Crayons]

That's not even a thing.

Holy crap you're just making stuff up.

[Green Crayons]

I remembered this this morning.

Here is farside repeatedly egging me on to vote Amy from yesterday:

23hours left. It's either going to be GC or CKD today. The people whom have their votes parked in other slots should move.

Well this is a bit delusional.


I'll switch to CDB if necessary, but I'd prefer a farside. CKD only as a last resort to avoid a no lynch.

Why does amy get a pass for just sheeping your read?

You realize there is literally little to no interaction between her and scramble?

Why is cbd a scum read?

It really boggles my mind that Beli's really shitty push against farside has made her immune from suspicion from most of the town, even as she has become essentially a nonentity surpassing even Amy in this game.

I'm going to just put you on ignore at this point.

It seems your okay with Amy's non expressive behavoir during the scrambles lynch, but when I state a v/la during most of this day it's scummy.
Your double standards on players is very much a peeve.

And then farside comes into the thread today and acts completely bewildered why I would vote Amy.

Jesus Mary and Joseph talk about scummy.

[Green Crayons]

I'd like to here from cbd today. He's been pretty Mia today.
Of course I notice GC doesn't call him on this.
I wonder why?

You can replace "GC" with any other player and actually be more accurate than the lie farside just typed.

Nobody

has mentioned CDB's absence from the thread

except for me, who referenced CDB's lack of posting

, in Post 2310.

[Green Crayons]

This isn't fucking illogical at all. I stated a town read on CKD and I know I'm town. Therefore setting up mislynches. I could be wrong about CKD but when you keep voting me and then vote the next biggest fucking wagon I seriously doubt that town read on CKD.

And here's further scum logic. "You think Player X and Player Y are scum candidates. I think Player X and Player Y are town. You must therefore be scum setting up mislynches!"

This surface-level logic - refusing to consider and weigh the basis for a player's suspicions - is a great scum template, because it can be applied to anyone! Examples:

1) farside thinks GC and Titus are scum candidates. I think GC and Titus are town. Therefore farside must be scum, setting up mislynches!
2) Riddle thinks CKD and GC are scum candidates. I think CKD and GC are town. Therefore Riddle must be scum, setting up mislynches!
3) CKD thinks GC and CBD (I think?) are scum candidates. I think GC and CBD are town. Therefore CKD must be scum, setting up mislynches!

[Green Crayons]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm done conversing with farside.



She's either scum or we're talking past each other.

[Green Crayons]

Hey there is this thing where you can read a player's posts in isolation and then you can do this other thing where you can search a website by word, and so if you were to hypothetically put together these two modern marvels of technology, you could read all of my posts and search for the word "CKD" and you would see my thought process about CKD, including the reasons why I think he is a scum candidate, just not the most likely to be scum.


So, lol, go fly a kite farside.

You can keep just making stuff up ("GC is claiming he isn't accountable for his actions," "GC had no basis for his Amy vote," "GC has no basis for his CKD vote"), but no matter how often or insistently you repeat them, they are still made up taglines.

[Green Crayons]

If you are in fact town, and farside is in fact scum, how does farside hammering you look town at all?

Especially since she has predicated her "GC is setting up mislynches because the two players he thinks are scum candidates I think is town!" on the basis that she reads you as town.

In short, farsidescum wouldn't hammer you in the 24-hour window you gave her because it wouldn't look town.

[Green Crayons]

Your 2352 analysis assumes that everyone is stuck in their reads, and wouldn't adjust their positions if a player did an incredibly scummy move.

More importantly, your 2352 analysis assumes

that the scum

thinks that everyone is stuck in their reads, and wouldn't adjust their positions if a player did an incredibly scummy move. Because scum are paranoid about how other's interpret their actions, I disagree with this assumption even more so than the basic premise that nobody will shift their opinions about any other player.

[Green Crayons]

If you are in fact town, and farside is in fact scum, how does farside hammering you look town at all?

Especially since she has predicated her "GC is setting up mislynches because the two players he thinks are scum candidates I think is town!" on the basis that she reads you as town.

In short, farsidescum wouldn't hammer you in the 24-hour window you gave her because it wouldn't look town.

Bawhahahaha.

Let me get this straight

you think scum would hold backdoing a hammer vote when offer for town points, instead of hammering to stop discussion

.
Please show me where you've seen that happen

I don't even understand what you're saying.

[Green Crayons]

The post you just quoted explains why you hammering CKD would look scummy.

It's the second sentence. It's right there. I will repeat myself, but it's really right there. Second sentence. Can't be missed. But here it is, repeated:

You have called me scummy for setting up mislynches. That wonderfully horrific line of suspicion is based on you thinking CKD is town. You have said this today. You have said this recently today. Thus, if you were to hammer CKD after you have not only been calling him town today, but have been basing his town-ness to call me scum, you would look like you're rushing to end the day (for no reason) by getting rid of a player you think is town. Which would look scummy, not town.

[Green Crayons]

farside, our brains are operating on different wavelengths because I don't know what the hell you are on about.

[Green Crayons]

Riddle, did you play on the other site under the same handle as here? If not, then linking to the game without revealing your handle would not import your meta onto MS.

[Green Crayons]

Titus and CKD: join me on the GC wagon.

There is nothing I read from GC today that he even remotely believes CKD is scum.
He is using riddle's desire and will most like push for my lynch. I see the set up and if you missed the implication please let me know so I can smack sense into you.

For farside-town to have posted this, she would have to believe:

(1) EITHER

(A) It's impossible for town to have more than one scum suspect at a time; OR

(B) Town, in a non-LYLO situation, will never vote from their scum suspect pool a person they do not suspect the most from that pool (CKD), because nobody will join them in voting the person they do suspect the most from that pool (farside), and because the thread has indicated that it is willing to lynch outside of the scum suspect pool (Riddle, Titus, GC).


(2) Town only 100% believe in their votes, even when they admit that they are not voting for their #1 suspect.


(3) That the following posts do not actually indicate GC's basis for suspecting CKD, even if it is not a 100% confident vote:
- Post 1074
- Post 1654
- Post 1659
- Post 1662
- Post 1697
- Post 1723
- Post 1784
- Post 1797
- Post 1798
- Post 1991
- Post 2013
- Post 2018
- Post 2112
- Post 2113
- Post 2115
- Post 2120
- Post 2233
- Post 2246

[Green Crayons]

I'd like to here from cbd today. He's been pretty Mia today.
Of course I notice GC doesn't call him on this.
I wonder why?

Oh yes that completely reads like the shit you game me for 2 game days.

Oh wait no it doesn't.

Point farside.

Oh, and of course this is just a bullshit lie to justify her bad vote on me. I never suspected anyone for failing to post (or going V/LA). It has always been that farside was using an inordinate amount of "catchup posts" instead of just diving right into the game:

I'm not saying her V/LA is fabricated. I'm saying that going absent and then coming back with a serious of catch up posts -- and this is her habitual play this game, not a one-time event -- is aligned with scum play.

I'm phone posting, so can't link, but porochaz did the exact thing as scum in Oldie Mafia 2 (normal large).

Oh, I can link this now.

Oldie Mafia 2. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was porochaz. He had a legitimate excuse for his V/LA (funeral and other bad IRL experiences), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 444, Post 596, Post 676.

Also, I just got finished with a game where this happened again. Mini 1609. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was massive. Once again, a legitimate reason (no weeked access), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 2434, 2497, and Post 3336.

Once again, it's not so much that someone has V/LA, and then decides to make catch up posts. It's the heavy emphasis of using catch up posts, as it allows a person to look like they are providing the town with a lot of activity, but it isn't really all that substantive and useful for the town.

Of course, being V/LA was the predicate for farside relying heavily on her catch up posts, but it's the catch up posts and not her V/LA that is the suspicious part of her play for purposes of that line of suspicion. And as I pointed out when Riddle wanted me to do the work for farside, farside could have jumped in and made a (what would have been a pretty convincing) meta defense: that she has been doing similar catch up posts in all of her games.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: CKD
VOTE: farside

I am completely unable to see how farside-town could believe the bullshit that is overflowing from her case against me. Her GC vote is based on lies, ignoring the context of my actions, and believing completely untenable points about how a town would play.

I will not be changing my vote.

[Green Crayons]

Pretty passé to suspect those who jump onto your wagon, but Riddle's switch seems particularly empty. High suspect if he makes it to LYLO.

[Green Crayons]

lol @ voting me under the belief that I would bus a buddy who had minimal suspicion on him with a stellar case as soon as I replaced in

TLDR:

VOTE: scrambles, because:

(1) I didn't like Blonde's hyper-defensive play.

(2) I don't like the slot's interaction with Beli. Blonde looked like he was distancing from Beli-scum. scrambles looked like he was bussing Beli-scum.

-----

Mr. Blonde

(1)

Blonde gets really defensive, really quick to any criticism of his play. In Post 43, Blonde gets really snippy with Snuggly's vote on Blonde – calling Snuggly's reason for a vote (a nebulous "something" and Blonde's "shall we dance" comment to Amy) as "mightily subjective," and then goes out of his way to remind the thread that Snuggly "apparently has never played before." Attacking his attacker, on Page 2? Wow.

(2)

I think Blonde's disproportionate defensiveness is also more clear with respect to farside's vote. His whole handling of farside's (not very good, not good enough to base a lynch off of, but perfectly adequate for a Page 1 vote) vote on his slot is weird. At first he ignores it until Post 33, then he calls it a joke in Post 43, and from there it just grows and becomes this Big Thing.

(a)

I really dislike the hyper-logical tone Blonde uses to defend himself. (For example, "You are using intangible evidence and supposed experience as a way to push me for a generic tell that essentially I can't defend against." in Post 45.) It reads like someone who is purposefully trying to remove their emotional response to being voted, which is artificial and calculated.

(b)

So Blonde and farside have a long back and forth about the merits of her Page 1 vote. It would be incorrect to say that Blonde

only

posts about farside, but it would be quite correct to say that Blonde posts

only

about those people who have voted him. (farside in Post 45, Post 49, Post 58, Snuggly in Post 50 and Post 53.)

(c)

Alright, so Point (b) wouldn't be that big of a deal except Blonde suddenly is off his farside vote/suspicions in Post 83 and Post 84 after a brief step away from the thread. Here's what bothers me about Blonde's move away from his farside argument/vote:

- Blonde's last post to farside in Post 58 is a bunch of questions directed at farside, all challenging the basis of her vote on him. Farside

does not answer them

between Post 58 and when Blonde returns in Post 83/84. Nonetheless, Blonde is happy to move away from his farside vote.
- Blonde invokes Acryon and Skelda to justify his move away from his farside vote in Post 83. I don't like this. Why point to other players and say "yeah, what they said!" if not attempting to preemptively justify your action under the basis of "you can't suspect me for this unless if you also suspect these other players!"
- Also, what Acryon (Post 66) and Skelda (Post 67) said was that they didn't agree with farside's Blonde-vote, but that alone didn't make farside scummy. Blonde appropriates that position, but then severely undermines it in the very same post: he can only "sort of see where a Townie would think something" like what farside is saying; he faults farside for failing to follow up on some questions with Toby; and farside is, at best, "maybe" "derpttown." (Post 83, Post 84.) Reads like a player hedging his bets, willing to step away from a target but laying enough groundwork that a return will not appear unnatural.
- SO THE END RESULT IS THIS: Blonde moves away from his farside vote, which he has been super defensive about/engaged with, even though farside never gave him answers to questions he was asking, preemptively justified by invoking the reasoning of other players, all while simultaneously laying seeds for why his continued suspicions of farside wouldn't be unwarranted.

(d)

Okay, so all that didn't sit well with me on my read through, but the kicker was the fact that Beli piled on with his farside vote (Post 61) in the time frame between Blonde being super into his farside vote (Post 58) and Blonde dropping his farside vote like it was a hot coal (Post 83/Post 84).

SPECULATION: Blonde didn't want to be on the same wagon so quickly with scum, thus the bad justifications for running away from the farside vote, but leaving himself room to return.

QUERY: Why would Beli be happy to throw a vote down on a player already being voted for by a scumbuddy? (shrug) Nobody would expect it? It wasn't necessarily a bad vote, as far as early D1 vote justifications go? Bel's play this game was weird. I don't know.

(e)

BONUS: Blonde (Post 83) first credits Skelda's note (Post 67) that he was "giving scumpoints to Beli and Chaos since farside would be such an easy wagon to join for scum."

Setting aside the ADDITIONAL conflicting opinions Blonde has thrown out there w/r/t farside, this lays the groundwork for Blonde to be critical of

both

Chaos and Beli. But Blonde only gets critical of Chaos, going so far to put him in Blonde's null/scum read in Post 137.

Well, what about Beli? Blonde's got nothing to say about him, except for asking Amy to talk about her non-Beli suspicions (Post 83) and despite Blonde's go-to advisor Skelda voting for Beli in Post 128 (close enough to Blonde's scum-list read in Post 137 to give Blonde plenty of time to reflect upon where his supposedly Beli suspicions to have gone). In hindsight, this looks like Blonde is purposefully turning a blind eye to Beli-scum.

scrambles

(1)

Day One: Doesn't do a lot (other than complimenting his slot in Post 233 :eyeroll:) until his vote on Beli in Post 339 and Post 340.

(a)

The basis for scrambles' Beli vote is solely: "I currently dont like belisarius at all for that "derp, I have no scumreads" comment." This is a surface read. It's not even a read. It's copying and pasting what other players said immediately prior to scrambles vote: acryon in Post 328 and farside in Post 337.

(b)

The timing of the Bel vote is particularly cringe-worthy.

- Naked Jogger voted Beli in Post 314. That brought Beli up to 2 votes (Amy and Naked), putting the Beli-wagon just one vote behind the Chaos-wagon (3 votes) and the Skelda-wagon (3 votes).
- From NakedJogger's Beli-vote to scrambles Beli-vote, nobody else actually voted Beli. But it's clear that that's where the wind was blowing:
- Skelda, Post 316: "Of the people with votes, I am most likely to go back to Beli. I really do not think that Chaos is scum. I guess I could see acryon, not really sure. But I am not in the mood to die Day 1 again."
- acryon, Post 328: "I don't like votes without explanation (314 from NakedJogger), but 313 from Belisaurus really sucks IMO. Bel's entire ISO at this point is tunneling Farside and trolling. Follow that up with a "darn I wish I had more to go off of!" and he really doesn't look good to me."
- acryon, Post 332: "I would say I am between Bel and Skelda at this point."
- farside, Post 337: "Bel is another player that concerns me. I don't see a lot coming from him for reads. Those are still my top two scum reads."
- Dry-fit, Post 338: "Belisaurius is a wildcard for me. I still don't know what to think of him."

SPECULATION: scrambles saw that there were votes already on Beli-scum, and saw that there were plenty of players who were also willing (and almost ready) to vote Beli. Rather than being late to the party, scrambles got ahead of the Beli-wagon and preemptively bussed his partner.

QUERY: why bus a partner over, putting Beli-wagon at 3 votes, to tie it with the other two leading wagons (Chaos and Skelda)? Because scum like to bus their partners for some stupid reason. Because scrambles wouldn't have to explain away a bad vote on confirmed town Skelda, or likely town Chaos. Makes it easier to play.

(c)

I think scrambles' "unsafe lynches are the best lynches" gobbledygook nonsense in Post 353 is scum posturing: scrambles is saying ALL AT ONCE that (1) chaos is reasonably suspicious, and is therefore a "safe" lynch, and thus voting him denies all culpability to a chaos-voter, which would be where scum would place their vote, (2) Beli is not reasonably suspicious (because a Beli-vote is "unsafe") and therefore if Beli were to flip town, scrambles would rightly get suspicion on him, (3) because Beli is an unsafe lynch, and not a safe lynch, scum wouldn't be keen on voting Beli, and therefore scrambles must be town.

(d)

scrambles is willing to back of Beli (Post 359), but never actually does so (much less follow through this willingness to reevaluate his Beli-vote) because that would look REALLY BAD if he jumped off the Beli-wagon and a Beli lynch actually went through.

(2)

Day Two: first reading through D2, I started to doubt my suspicions on the Blonde/scrambles slot, but then I got to Toby's insight and rethought my position:

I've had a scum buddy, having obviously going to be lynched the next day

, have their plan be that day to call me town and argue it to their death.

The bolded is what I think very much happened. Scum saw that Beli was a probable D2 lynch, and so acted accordingly. In this light, scrambles' D2 Beli-focus is weird:

(a)

scrambles first D2 posts asks

chaos

, and only chaos, what chaos thinks about Beli. (Post 570, Post 574, Post 634.) Why the zeroing in on chaos? Why not try to get more of the thread on board? It looks like scrambles is making a half-hearted attempt to get people back on the Beli-wagon.

(b)

scrambles reasoning for a Beli-vote have downgraded: no longer is it that Beli isn't actually giving good reasons, it's only that "there's something there," a "feeling," and some type of "vibe." (Post 574.) Holy smokes that's a horrible effort to justify a suspicion: "Hey guys, I totally am on board with this suspicion, but I'll let others fill out my nebulous accusations." Looks like scum recognizing that Beli-lynch might be inevitable for D2, but doesn't want to actually contribute to it at the beginning of the day just in case if suspicions go elsewhere.

(c)

Then we get scrambles Beli-vote in Post 634. Now he's fourth on the Beli-wagon. Why the Beli-vote from scrambles? Because of Beli's wifom (Post 636.) Once again, not original Beli-suspicions:

- Toby, in Post 440: "everyone huddle together and let's wifom what this means." (in a Beli/Toby back-and-forth)
- CKD, in Post 450: "too flippant (yeah yeah WIFOM)..also his is a counter wagon to someone I think is scum." (discussing why he thinks Beli is town)

(d)

scrambles then ignores Beli for the remainder of the day, up until Beli is L-1. Only then does scrambles jab at Beli in Post 861. scrambles literally did not talk to Beli at all, did not try to pursue or explore his suspicions, until the Beli lynch was sealed.

[Green Crayons]

I suspect everyone?

That makes no sense.

[Green Crayons]

I have crossed Titus off my list. I think CDB's absence from the thread actually speaks in favor of him. I have been weighing your play in my head for a while now, just not vocalizing it.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, that's what i think you did.

Not sure if on par, or worse, than CKD's "magical words" suspicions.

[Green Crayons]

Scum laying out a solid case against a buddy, when that buddy has no prior suspicions, when that buddy is the last living buddy, on Day 3, is borderline anti-win condition. It gets peopled riled up against the buddy even if the scum were to ultimately abandon his buddy vote.

Is it possible that I am scum who bussed his buddy? Yes, list most things, it is possible. Is it more plausible that I am scum who bussed his buddy than a player who replaced into the game, who had a good grasp of the players and slots, and did pretty well on deducing at least one slot who was scum? No.

This is actually the same flawed reasoning for your position that CKD is scum who refused to vote either of his buddies. It's possible. Why is it more plausible than the alternative? Because reasons.

[Green Crayons]

Once again, inability to explain why bus is more plausible than town case, even though both are possible.

[Green Crayons]

If you knew the gamestate pointed to your buddy being pinned later on in the day, you figure you may as well be the one to break the news

Are you saying this was the gamestate?

[Green Crayons]

lol

I have super powers as scum under your theory about this "possible" gamestate of scrambles somehow getting suspicion on him at a point later in the day that I replaced in, and about scrambles playstyle (even though I think there was this huge discussion in this game about him not having many games on mafiascum?).


Okay, Riddle.

[Green Crayons]

(1)

Did he ever explain the scum read when I pushed him?
Nope.
Instead of explaining he just votes me, especially since cbd mentioned a thought of me as scum.

Lie:

(3) That the following posts do not actually indicate GC's basis for suspecting CKD, even if it is not a 100% confident vote:
- Post 1074
- Post 1654
- Post 1659
- Post 1662
- Post 1697
- Post 1723
- Post 1784
- Post 1797
- Post 1798
- Post 1991
- Post 2013
- Post 2018
- Post 2112
- Post 2113
- Post 2115
- Post 2120
- Post 2233
- Post 2246

(2)

I've so made a case on my buddy and fought with him to

say it doesn't happen at all is illogical

, especially as you keep ignore that beli pushed a vote on me day 1 for no reason as a scum tell.

Hypocrites are my pet peeve.

Lie:

Scum laying out a solid case against a buddy, when that buddy has no prior suspicions, when that buddy is the last living buddy, on Day 3, is borderline anti-win condition. It gets peopled riled up against the buddy even if the scum were to ultimately abandon his buddy vote.

Is it possible that I am scum who bussed his buddy? Yes, list most things, it is possible.

Is it more plausible that I am scum who bussed his buddy than a player who replaced into the game, who had a good grasp of the players and slots, and did pretty well on deducing at least one slot who was scum? No.

This is actually the same flawed reasoning for your position that CKD is scum who refused to vote either of his buddies. It's possible. Why is it more plausible than the alternative? Because reasons.

Liars are my pet peeve.

[Green Crayons]

I see CKD isn't getting much traction. I suppose I'll compromise.

Sigh. Farside is correct now that I see it. The interest in the CKD wagon seems artificial.

VOTE: GC

Coming back to this, the bolded part is what raises my hackles, because Riddle has twiced posted that:

a) If you think CDB is scum, vote CKD
b) If you think GC is scum, vote CKD
c) If you think Farside is scum, vote CKD
d) If you think I am scum, vote CKD
e) If you think Titus is scum, vote CKD
f) If you think CKD is scum, vote CKD

So Riddle is okay with everyone voting CKD regardless of who they think is scum (even if it is not CKD), unless if it is GC who has explained that he does think CKD is 2nd or 3rd most likely to be scum.

It's like Riddle wasn't happy to rest upon his earlier Ape/GC suspicions - which are wrong, but not really scummy - and thought by throwing in with this farside bit it gives him a bit more cover from his hardline vote-CKD-or-bust stance.

[Green Crayons]

Oh goodie, farside's now back to the "town can only vote their #1 scum suspect, even though this isn't LYLO, even though nobody else will vote her with you, even though people are wanting to vote out of your scum pool" bullshit theory of town play.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I acknowledge all of that, and I don't find that scummy.

(Hilarious though that the line of logic you just embraced about your own vote decision making is part of why farside suspects me.)

I found you seizing upon farside's bad justification for a vote as additional justification for switching from CKD to me to be suspicious. You've already laid the non-alignment indicative groundwork for you voting either CKD or GC today. Making a last minute grab for "oh and this other stuff" as you switch your vote strikes me as attempting to preemptively - but unnecessarily - CYA.

[Green Crayons]

It's like you don't read the thread.

Or even the posts I linked to you.

Because if you read at all, you would see that I've been going back and forth about how I feel about CKD all game, including providing bits where I think his actions could come from scum or town, and taking the one slice where I had swung more to "feels like town" and then going "OH MY GOSH WHAT ARE THESE CKD SUSPICIONS ALL ABOUT?" is disingenuous as fuck.

[Green Crayons]

I have not played with scrambles before.

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't the entire Titus-versus-scrambles exchange actually result in scrambles explaining that he wasn't new to the game of mafia, just to MS?

[Green Crayons]

Alright scrambles, just how experienced are you? I need to know this in order to know how to exactly read you. What is the name of your homesite?

vgchartz

my handle is theprof00

I nominate Riddle to do the legwork and see if scrambles' experience at vgchartz under "theprof00" buttresses or undermines Riddle's speculation that there was a comment in the scum QT from scrambles admitting that he was inexperienced.

Since it is his theory after all.

[Green Crayons]

vgchartz is in reference to scrambles's offsite mafia experience. I have no idea what site Riddle has played mafia on that isn't MS.

[Green Crayons]

If there are four players in a scum pool, and only one of them is scum, farside doesn't think that I should have ANY town feelings towards any of them.

Even though three of them are town.

[Green Crayons]

This is where I see a motive with lynches. I know I'm town so his move to CKD and saying he could convince riddle on my lynch if CKD is town makes me read lining up lynches for a scum win.

lol, already debunked:

And here's further scum logic. "You think Player X and Player Y are scum candidates. I think Player X and Player Y are town. You must therefore be scum setting up mislynches!"

This surface-level logic - refusing to consider and weigh the basis for a player's suspicions - is a great scum template, because it can be applied to anyone! Examples:

1) farside thinks GC and Titus are scum candidates. I think GC and Titus are town. Therefore farside must be scum, setting up mislynches!
2) Riddle thinks CKD and GC are scum candidates. I think CKD and GC are town. Therefore Riddle must be scum, setting up mislynches!
3) CKD thinks GC and CBD (I think?) are scum candidates. I think GC and CBD are town. Therefore CKD must be scum, setting up mislynches!

lol, double standard, these people aren't also suspicious to farside for the exact same play:

I really can't make it simpler than this, CKD.

Especially

if I thought I had more time than I did, why wouldn't I want somebody who I could still quite plausibly see as town to show signs of reconsidering and making sure that they were on the right track? How many times do I have to explain that the choice between you and Amy is essentially arbitrary to me before you accept that I'm not protraying you as Beelzebub incarnate?

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

[Green Crayons]

For the record, if I do get lynched, CDB shouldn't get town points for town reading me if he makes it to LYLO. Per the general rule that nobody should ever get town points for reading a town player, barring some abnormal situation-specific exception, and this situation is not an exception.

That said, that is the only scum motivation I could see in CDB undertaking a thorough and thoughtful analysis and reread that repeatedly hammers home (among other points) that I look, sound, breathe, and am town.

Everything else about his play today looks town from where I'm sitting, even trying to take into consideration the inevitable bias that comes into the analysis when talking about apparently the only person who actually sees my play as town.

[Green Crayons]

If there are four players in a scum pool, and only one of them is scum, farside doesn't think that I should have ANY town feelings towards any of them.

Even though three of them are town.

[Green Crayons]

This is where I see a motive with lynches. I know I'm town so his move to CKD and saying he could convince riddle on my lynch if CKD is town makes me read lining up lynches for a scum win.

lol, already debunked:

And here's further scum logic. "You think Player X and Player Y are scum candidates. I think Player X and Player Y are town. You must therefore be scum setting up mislynches!"

This surface-level logic - refusing to consider and weigh the basis for a player's suspicions - is a great scum template, because it can be applied to anyone! Examples:

1) farside thinks GC and Titus are scum candidates. I think GC and Titus are town. Therefore farside must be scum, setting up mislynches!
2) Riddle thinks CKD and GC are scum candidates. I think CKD and GC are town. Therefore Riddle must be scum, setting up mislynches!
3) CKD thinks GC and CBD (I think?) are scum candidates. I think GC and CBD are town. Therefore CKD must be scum, setting up mislynches!

lol, double standard, these people aren't also suspicious to farside for the exact same play:

I really can't make it simpler than this, CKD.

Especially

if I thought I had more time than I did, why wouldn't I want somebody who I could still quite plausibly see as town to show signs of reconsidering and making sure that they were on the right track? How many times do I have to explain that the choice between you and Amy is essentially arbitrary to me before you accept that I'm not protraying you as Beelzebub incarnate?

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

[Green Crayons]

Here was my pool of acceptable lynches yesterday: farside, CDB, CKD, and Amy.

By the end of yesterday, I thought CDB and CKD were bad lynches. Thus I was down to farside and Amy.

Nobody wants to kill most likely scum farside,

so I go for my other option, Amy, for the reasons stated.

Then today begins up.

NOBODY JOINS ME ON FARSIDE FOR NO GOOD GODDAMN REASON.

Seriously it's aggravating.

So since that's not gong through, I return to my other two options: CDB and CKD. I don't really know which of them is more likely to be scum than the other, so I vote for CKD since people are actually voting him and at least one of the players (Riddle) who is doing so accepts the fact that if CKD and I am not scum, then farside is scum. Since I know for a fact that I am not scum, and if CKD flips and ends up not being scum, then I at least have one other person I can try to convince that I am actually town and farside is indeed the scum I think she is.

[Green Crayons]

It's like you're ignoring the fact that I have always said you are the scummiest scumbag out of the scum pool, but because I can't get the votes to join you, I switch to other players in the scum pool who I think are relatively the scummiest (after you).

[Green Crayons]

the votes to lynch you*

Like, your 2482 is a whole list of me talking about Amy, but it ignores the context that

at the time I switched from farside to Amy, (1) there wasn't a sufficient enough votes to lynch farside (the scummiest scum in the scum pool), (2) I thought CKD and CDB looked pretty darn town (even though they were in the lynch pool), and therefore that meant (3) Amy had some lingering suspicion on her, and therefore was a more acceptable lynch than CKD or CDB, and thus I switched to her because an Amy lynch > CKD/CDB lynch.

[Green Crayons]

All I hear reading GC's post is waaaahhhh people didn't join me so I went with one of the other 4 reads I listed as scum even though I called them town.

lol:

This is where I see a motive with lynches. I know I'm town so his move to CKD and saying he could convince riddle on my lynch if CKD is town makes me read lining up lynches for a scum win.

lol, already debunked:

And here's further scum logic. "You think Player X and Player Y are scum candidates. I think Player X and Player Y are town. You must therefore be scum setting up mislynches!"

This surface-level logic - refusing to consider and weigh the basis for a player's suspicions - is a great scum template, because it can be applied to anyone! Examples:

1) farside thinks GC and Titus are scum candidates. I think GC and Titus are town. Therefore farside must be scum, setting up mislynches!
2) Riddle thinks CKD and GC are scum candidates. I think CKD and GC are town. Therefore Riddle must be scum, setting up mislynches!
3) CKD thinks GC and CBD (I think?) are scum candidates. I think GC and CBD are town. Therefore CKD must be scum, setting up mislynches!

lol, double standard, these people aren't also suspicious to farside for the exact same play:

I really can't make it simpler than this, CKD.

Especially

if I thought I had more time than I did, why wouldn't I want somebody who I could still quite plausibly see as town to show signs of reconsidering and making sure that they were on the right track? How many times do I have to explain that the choice between you and Amy is essentially arbitrary to me before you accept that I'm not protraying you as Beelzebub incarnate?

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

[Green Crayons]

Oh, and:

If there are four players in a scum pool, and only one of them is scum, farside doesn't think that I should have ANY town feelings towards any of them.

Even though three of them are town.

[Green Crayons]

All I hear reading GC's post is waaaahhhh people didn't join me so I went with one of the other 4 reads I listed as scum even though I called them town.

Like, the brash ignorance of this post is astounding.

Hey, look, this applies too!:

Titus and CKD: join me on the GC wagon.

There is nothing I read from GC today that he even remotely believes CKD is scum.
He is using riddle's desire and will most like push for my lynch. I see the set up and if you missed the implication please let me know so I can smack sense into you.

For farside-town to have posted this, she would have to believe:

(1) EITHER

(A) It's impossible for town to have more than one scum suspect at a time; OR

(B) Town, in a non-LYLO situation, will never vote from their scum suspect pool a person they do not suspect the most from that pool (CKD), because nobody will join them in voting the person they do suspect the most from that pool (farside), and because the thread has indicated that it is willing to lynch outside of the scum suspect pool (Riddle, Titus, GC).


(2) Town only 100% believe in their votes, even when they admit that they are not voting for their #1 suspect.


(3) That the following posts do not actually indicate GC's basis for suspecting CKD, even if it is not a 100% confident vote:
- Post 1074
- Post 1654
- Post 1659
- Post 1662
- Post 1697
- Post 1723
- Post 1784
- Post 1797
- Post 1798
- Post 1991
- Post 2013
- Post 2018
- Post 2112
- Post 2113
- Post 2115
- Post 2120
- Post 2233
- Post 2246

[Green Crayons]

lol

The only lynch I have ~*~ wanted ~*~ for the past two days is a farside lynch.

I have settled for pursuing other lynches. Just like CDB did yesterday. Just like Riddle is doing today.

[Green Crayons]

How many people has he listed as scum? Do you know I have seen scum do the exact same thing not to long ago.

Oh, a meta attack without citing the previous game.

Quick, Riddle, get in here and make sure to be as critical of this meta attack on me as you were of my "meta" attack on farside!

[Green Crayons]

Apparently having 50% options throughout the game on who to lynch should look town to GC for some reason.

I never claimed my process makes me look town. Although using POE when we had three mislynches to go through is solid strategy, it isn't alignment indicative.

I'm saying that my process doesn't make me look like scum.

[Green Crayons]

It's like you read a game where I just pulled names out of the air to make the POE scum pool.

Oh, wait, that game didn't happen. You're just ignoring how this game actually unfolded.


lol, okay, I'm scum because I wasn't able to whittle down to 2 scum candidates by today? lol

[Green Crayons]

You have 2 scum reads.
Riddle has 2 scum reads
Titus has 2 scum reads.
I have 1.

Wait, I thought you were all up in arms by the fact that I was looking at only two people: CKD and farside?

This is where I see a motive with lynches. I know I'm town so his move to CKD and saying he could convince riddle on my lynch if CKD is town makes me read lining up lynches for a scum win.

lol, already debunked:

And here's further scum logic. "You think Player X and Player Y are scum candidates. I think Player X and Player Y are town. You must therefore be scum setting up mislynches!"

This surface-level logic - refusing to consider and weigh the basis for a player's suspicions - is a great scum template, because it can be applied to anyone! Examples:

1) farside thinks GC and Titus are scum candidates. I think GC and Titus are town. Therefore farside must be scum, setting up mislynches!
2) Riddle thinks CKD and GC are scum candidates. I think CKD and GC are town. Therefore Riddle must be scum, setting up mislynches!
3) CKD thinks GC and CBD (I think?) are scum candidates. I think GC and CBD are town. Therefore CKD must be scum, setting up mislynches!

lol, double standard, these people aren't also suspicious to farside for the exact same play:

I really can't make it simpler than this, CKD.

Especially

if I thought I had more time than I did, why wouldn't I want somebody who I could still quite plausibly see as town to show signs of reconsidering and making sure that they were on the right track? How many times do I have to explain that the choice between you and Amy is essentially arbitrary to me before you accept that I'm not protraying you as Beelzebub incarnate?

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

[Green Crayons]

Nothing new to post.

[Green Crayons]

so if all things stay constant, you will be lynched GC..thoughts?

You mean besides the obvious?

[Green Crayons]

Like, feel free to ask questions, but my positions on things should be pretty clear.

[Green Crayons]

lol

I'm calling BS on Post 2527.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, unless if farside is saying that she might get 3 votes over my 2?


When I posted that, I thought farside was implying that she thought that if we stay tied, a no lynch would happen. Upon reread, I see that that is not the more likely understanding of her post.

[Green Crayons]

Well, instead of wimping out of another lynch-time vote, CKD, maybe you could at least have the gumption to actually play and put down a vote. Since you recognize that your lack of a vote is essentially a vote for GC, I'd like for you to fully commit to my mislynch instead of you being yellow bellied about it.

If farside makes it to LYLO, lynch her. She's most likely to be scum.

If farside does not make it to LYLO, but Riddle does, lynch him. (I say this after having thought long and hard about CDB and CKD, and having swung back and forth on them repeatedly, and coming to the conclusion that my inability to fully commit to either of them being scum is due to the fact that probably neither is scum - and if farside isn't scum, then my original POE lynch pool was wrong.)

If Titus makes it to LYLO, don't lynch her. Ever.

[Green Crayons]

I guess I could also vote riddleton and GC might or might not jump on that to save his self. but I find riddlescum less likley...but I fucking dont know.

lol

I would, but only because I

know for a fact

(DUN DUN DUN) that I am town, whereas Riddle still has the potential for not being town.

The better play would be for you to vote farside, and then either bask in my awesomeness or gloat about how wrong I was.

[Green Crayons]

Only if you are scum.

[Green Crayons]

Do I detect a hint of gloat?

[Green Crayons]

I have no opinion about a deadline extension.

I don't think Titus herself is going to change her opinion about farside, as she has repeatedly stated that Beli's out of the gate push against farside has immunized farside from suspicion.

I guess a Titus replacement might see the glory of a farside-scum, but man I don't know if having to wait to even see if that would be a thing is even worth it. From a win-condition standpoint, I guess that's what I officially endorse, but from a personal standpoint, I'd rather just get the lynch over today because holy crap drawing out today to the deadline was unexpected and taxing.

[Green Crayons]

i dont like some of the shit you said. I dont like some of the shit farside said. I dont like some of the shit CDB said. I dont like some of the shit riddle said (but I think he is town). titus is alright.

Oh man, it's like something I've said about my own feelings about players.

[Green Crayons]

Well, instead of wimping out of another lynch-time vote, CKD, maybe you could at least have the gumption to actually play and put down a vote. Since you recognize that your lack of a vote is essentially a vote for GC, I'd like for you to fully commit to my mislynch instead of you being yellow bellied about it.

4 hours to go for you to actually make a decision.

Family is flying into town tonight for the holiday, so I'd prefer that you vote sooner rather than later so I don't need to check MS.

[Green Crayons]

^^^ Directed

@CKD

, if context wasn't obvious.

[Green Crayons]

Well now I'm heading out for the evening.


Final thoughts:

If farside makes it to LYLO, lynch her. She's most likely to be scum.

If farside does not make it to LYLO, but Riddle does, lynch him. (I say this after having thought long and hard about CDB and CKD, and having swung back and forth on them repeatedly, and coming to the conclusion that my inability to fully commit to either of them being scum is due to the fact that probably neither is scum - and if farside isn't scum, then my original POE lynch pool was wrong.)

If Titus makes it to LYLO, don't lynch her. Ever.

[Green Crayons]

lol

And a good morning to everyone. It's the day that doesn't end.

(Hey thanks CKD for voting, and not voting me.)

I do hope Titus returns.

[Green Crayons]

Activity post.

[Green Crayons]

Is anyone confirmed town?

You're in the most widely accepted town slot.

So that doesn't really help you.

Welcome to the game.

[Green Crayons]

<obligatory "vote farside" post>

[Green Crayons]

What, Riddle, no attempt to persuade Iron that CKD is totally and absolutely the last remaining scum?

[Green Crayons]

Alternatively:

If farside makes it to LYLO, lynch her. She's most likely to be scum.

If farside does not make it to LYLO, but Riddle does, lynch him.

(I say this after having thought long and hard about CDB and CKD, and having swung back and forth on them repeatedly, and coming to the conclusion that my inability to fully commit to either of them being scum is due to the fact that probably neither is scum - and if farside isn't scum, then my original POE lynch pool was wrong.)

If Titus makes it to LYLO, don't lynch her. Ever.

[/quote]

[Green Crayons]

Whatever happened to this Riddle:

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

[Green Crayons]

Here's the disconnect:

It's still uncertain why you aren't trying to convince Iron to suspect your #1 suspect.

You know, because you obstensibly ~*~ could ~*~ be dead tomorrow.

[Green Crayons]

I'm

voting

my #1 suspicion. I posted a tongue in cheek "vote farside" activity post in light of everyone else doing so. I'm happy to let Iron do his read through and address his questions/perspective once he's done.


Riddle is voting his #2 suspicion. Riddle has repeatedly urged Iron to vote his #2 suspicion, without acknowleding his #1 suspicion at all.


Totally the same thing. (This is sarcasm. Your attempt to chuck suspicion at me is clumsy and flawed.)

[Green Crayons]

I know you can do this math:

If you convince Iron, that's two votes on CKD and two on farside. Farside would presumably vote CKD to avoid a lynch, so there is three.

That's about what it looks like I'm going to net. Today looks to be like a plurality lynch.

-----

Why are you making it to LYLO?

[Green Crayons]

Ah, I guess if CKD and farside were tied, farside would be the lynch?

I'm still curious about why you're making it to LYLO.

[Green Crayons]

Well, obviously we can all agree if someone else gets lynched and is town, I'll be in LyLo to decide between GC and CKD.

lol

This is exactly what CKD is saying.

If either CKD or myself is scum, why would we keep you alive? You've been ridiculously self assured in your suspicions against us. It would be stupid to keep you to LYLO.

Unless if you're saying that CKD would keep both you and me alive, and I would keep both you and CKD alive - and we'd have to wager that you'd ultimately think the other player was more suspicious? That's also a stupid strategy, when just killing you would make things much more sense from a CKD-scum or GC-scum perspective.

Your death also makes sense from an anyone else-scum perspective, as you're not suspected by anyone still in this game except myself - and scum know they sure as fuck can't rely on me actually sticking with my suspicions - and maaaaybe CKD, but he's been pretty mild on that drumbeat for quite some time.

[Green Crayons]

FWIW, Riddle's inconsistent theories as to who is scum and why he'd make it to LYLO don't necessarily strike me as indicative of scum alignment, just indicative of illogical thinking.

Only scum motivation that I can think of is either (1) Riddle-scum is being lazy, and wanted a quick reason to justify not pushing his CKD suspicions with Iron, or (2) Riddle-scum trying to lay the groundwork for why he survives to LYLO (but unlikely employed here, as such a preemptive and late-game groundwork is awkward and not really effective).

[Green Crayons]

The most well articulated suspicions against CDB was by acryon, but even he wavered on CDB suspicions.


CDB's play has some suspicious vibes to it sprinkled throughout the days, but there's not really a solid hook that I've seen to say "yes, this, scum."

[Green Crayons]

1) The scrambles vote in #1060 is strange. I think that he made the case & post in the right time where scrambles wasn't under much suspicion, so that the wagon won't take off much. And he's right -- it didn't. The main thing that fuelled the wagon was scramble's defensc and lies about his experience & his meta of 'not talking to scumreads', and finally his comment about how he groups scum with doctor. I'm also speculating that GC, despite his wall post being 100% correct, specifically made the post incredibly long and drawn out as if to discourage people from reading the whole thing. That's my paranoia speaking, though.

This is Riddle's GC-is-scum theory w/r/t my awesome scrambles case.

[Green Crayons]

He only asked about you explaining away my vote on scrambles. I linked to your post, he's a big kid and can go read the whole thing if he wants.

~*~ Arm Cross ~*~

[Green Crayons]

my case on scrambles*

[Green Crayons]

@Iron:

I think that is probably the best argument in favor of farside not being scum.

However, I think your observation is ultimately one of playstyle, and potentially a style "played up" as this game has continued, as I don't think farside is in actuality nearly as scrambled as she has come across since scrambles' lynch.

[Green Crayons]

Each time he attacks me, the wagon goes nowhere

he switches to CKD, switches to amy.

If I was the person he felt strongest for, why not start voting me?

lololol

[Green Crayons]

Vote Count 4.08

(L-2)

Farside22: (2) Green Crayons, ChannelDelibird

(L-2)

Green Crayons: (2) Farside22, Riddleton
Riddleton: (1) Ironwood

Not Voting: Curiouskarmadog

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-12-04 13:14:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[/area]

Oh, lol, 38 minutes.

[Green Crayons]

I'd appreciate not dying, TIA.

[Green Crayons]

farside, you're not doing a very good at concealing your scumminess at this point.

[Green Crayons]

Well, if that does happen to be the case, then she's doing a mighty fine job at being scummy.

[Green Crayons]

Final thoughts:

If farside makes it to LYLO, lynch her. She's most likely to be scum.

If farside does not make it to LYLO, but Riddle does, lynch him. (I say this after having thought long and hard about CDB and CKD, and having swung back and forth on them repeatedly, and coming to the conclusion that my inability to fully commit to either of them being scum is due to the fact that probably neither is scum - and if farside isn't scum, then my original POE lynch pool was wrong.)

If Titus makes it to LYLO, don't lynch her. Ever.

[Green Crayons]

Final words:

Y'all dumb.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, you're really dumb.

I'm so town it hurts.

[Green Crayons]

Ah well. Kill farside.

[Green Crayons]

We all make mistakes!

At least this time it wasn't me.

[Green Crayons]

lol @ you lolling at POE

Man if you're not scum, I'm reserving all rights to be snarky as fuck come end game.

@CKD:

I'm 1/2 of the way to snarky as fuck right now. Not you just need to be town and I will be 100% snarky as fuck.

[Green Crayons]

There, there, farside-scum, I'm sure you can come up with more bad arguments to suspect someone.

[Green Crayons]

farside --> riddle / CDB --> CKD --> Iron.

I bumped CDB up because I respect a replacee's insight into the game, and Iron is solid.

[Green Crayons]

*gasp* Oh no I changed my thoughts about players based on a dynamic game state. The horror!

[Green Crayons]

POE mostly. Also with him including some of your GC suspicions to justify his GC vote, when he had already put out a GC case, looked like he was trying to cover his butt.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I mean his play throughout the game has looked pretty darn town, so... like I said, POE, mostly.

[Green Crayons]

CDB voted scum on D2 and D3 as well.

[Green Crayons]

Though his vote on Beli is questionable, as Iron has noted. Regardless, he did vote Beli.

[Green Crayons]

I swear if someone derp votes me. *angry glare*

I wouldn't bus both partners as scum D2 and D3, neither would anyone. It's a simple assumption, but if you accept that, then Titus amd I are town.

And yet you're suspicious when a player is willing to sheep your suspicions.

[Green Crayons]

Le sigh.

[Green Crayons]

CKD is town (yesterday) --> okay, I'm willing to sheep Riddle-town, so let me vote CKD --> my god farside is scumming it up in here, so unvote CKD

[Green Crayons]

Oh shit, I pursued farside first today.

[Green Crayons]

If I was the person he felt strongest for, why not start voting me? Why follow riddle if nothing else to make it to lylo?

That's what I get for listening to this reconstruction of how this game actually played out.

[Green Crayons]

CKD is town (yesterday) --> let me vote farside because she's scum --> nobody will vote farside with me. fine, okay, I'm willing to sheep Riddle-town, so let me vote CKD --> my god farside is scumming it up in here, so unvote CKD

Revised as to how the game actually played out.

[Green Crayons]

I have a few notes in my head for those interested.

Riddle: stop defending players you town read. This is the one thing that helps scum overall
GC: I really enjoyed playing with you the most. I hope we play again
CKD: get back to playing mafia. There are many things you missed this game.
Scramble: why, why did you have to bus so fast and hard.
Me: for those wondering I have caught scum replacing out when they recieved there role pm and confirmed before. In fact when I attacked the spot I didn't notice it was my scum buddy.

I knew, knew,

knew

that, generally, you are much more awesome when handling assholes (me), so your back and forth with me this game really struck me funny.

(Also, I do hope all your IRL stuff is sorted out.)

GG everyone.

@CKD:

Like I said, I knew for a fact that I was town.

[Green Crayons]

As for Farside, Beli attacked them had day 1 for going after the scrambles slot.

Beli acted super righteous in pursuing farside, as if his cause against farside was handed down from above.

Totally bus material.

That situation would, of course, be Beli-scum defending Blonde/scrambles-scum by attacking farside-scum who was attacking Blonde/scrambles-scum.


It's scum v. scum v. scum. Ballsy.

It almost worked!

[Green Crayons]

GC: just so you know, I have the upmost respect for your thought process. I'm sorry I had to come back at you in bitch form. It was really fun to mess with you on some of your points.

<3

This was a hard game, if my constant self doubt didn't underscore that fact.