Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[Riddleton]

*she's town. Sorry, I keep doing that. :/

[acryon]

Because you and scrambles were desperate scum.

If I were scum with scrambles, both of us voting on you would be TERRIBLE. Any gain that would come from convincing people that the scum-team would never do that is significantly outweighed by just how TERRIBLE it is for the scum-team.

[Riddleton]

Because you and scrambles were desperate scum.

Scrambles was desperate,yes. I still stand by my assertion that Acryon is just misguided town.

[Titus]

Well. I could supplement with your delayed OMGUS on Toby day 1.

[acryon]

Well. I could supplement with your delayed OMGUS on Toby day 1.

Because that's a brilliant piece of information...

[Titus]

Or acryon you could try to prove me wrong. You won't bc you cannot prove something untrue.

[Titus]

Well. I could supplement with your delayed OMGUS on Toby day 1.

Because that's a brilliant piece of information...

And your first impulse is sarcastic discredit. This is why you are scum.

[acryon]

Well. I could supplement with your delayed OMGUS on Toby day 1.

Because that's a brilliant piece of information...

And your first impulse is sarcastic discredit. This is why you are scum.

Or because it's just bad. You are so very clearly grasping at straws, which makes no sense to me if you are town. You are an experienced player, yet your case on me is complete garbage. I shouldn't have to explain to you why it's bad; you are a better player than this.

[acryon]

I don't care that anyone thinks my reasons for disliking the case on scrambles were bad. While I disagree, I can obviously understand that, given his flip. I also don't particularly care that you think I am scum other than the fact that it takes away from us actually being able to find the last scum.

[Titus]

Yes. You really do. You refused to explain why scrambles is town bc my case sucked. He was not town. People are townreading you bc too close/scummy to br scum. VCA is a big neon sign you are scum here. Discrediting me is likely to get you nowhere.

If I am wrong, make a good case on yhe real scum.

[Titus]

I don't care that anyone thinks my reasons for disliking the case on scrambles were bad. While I disagree, I can obviously understand that, given his flip. I also don't particularly care that you think I am scum other than the fact that it takes away from us actually being able to find the last scum.

Wrong. Having an opinion you are scum doesn't detract from you scumhunting. Your scum PM does.

[acryon]

Yes. You really do. You refused to explain why scrambles is town bc my case sucked. He was not town. People are townreading you bc too close/scummy to br scum. VCA is a big neon sign you are scum here. Discrediting me is likely to get you nowhere.

If I am wrong, make a good case on yhe real scum.

My primary argument was never that he was town. There are two ways to argue against a case that someone is scum. A) Argue that they are town, or B) Argue against the case that they are scum. I did B.

For all of you have done to tout yourself as some VCA expert, your grand conclusion is that the one person that was voting with the scum is scum? You've got to be kidding me.

[acryon]

As for who is the real scum, I think there is a good chance it is either you or CDB. Unsure of which, and I am certainly not saying these are the only two options. Hopefully in a few days I will have a better idea.

I think GC and Riddleton are both definitely town, and I have already explained my reasons earlier for why I think they are. AFF has moved from lean-scum to lean-town for me. CKD and farside are null.

[Titus]

Wow.. that's obviously ignoring the chainsaw I talked about and the analysis I have already done.

If you want me to think you are town, you have to scumhunt. No amount of selective discrediting is going to get you there.

CDB and I are both town. So is farside. CKD might be scum but that's a hell of a stretch. You are welcome to try.

[Riddleton]

#1099 to me, shows why I think Acryon is misguided newbie town just not being familiar with a playstyle like Titus'. Again, I don't buy it.

[acryon]

Wow.. that's obviously ignoring the chainsaw I talked about and the analysis I have already done.

If you want me to think you are town, you have to scumhunt. No amount of selective discrediting is going to get you there.

CDB and I are both town. So is farside. CKD might be scum but that's a hell of a stretch. You are welcome to try.

I was referring to this:

VCA is a big neon sign you are scum here

Go ahead and explain how the VCA is a big neon sign that I am scum?

[Riddleton]

CKD might be scum but that's a hell of a stretch

Not a stretch. I might have time to post a current up-to-date case w/ the Scrambles associations, but for now, you can see my general case in #803 and my assoctaive case with Beli in #1076, #1077 and #1224

[acryon]

No one like crappy arguments right? It's why people have fought against my scum-case on Titus, it's why I fought against the scum-case on scrambles, and it's now why I'm fighting against the scum-case on me. It has nothing to do with whether or not it happened to work out a certain way (like with scrambles being scum), it has to do with the strength of the evidence and the solidity of the arguments.

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD:

this is ridiculous.

Kalimar's hammer was pretty solid town material. Most people didn't think Toby was suspicious, particularly in later play. And Kalimar wasn't exactly making a hard push for CDB.

Looks more like a solid but safe kill for scum, rather than a specific attempt to divert attention away from the dead player's suspicions.

no no, the ridiculous part is/was that he (another person that also suspect CDB) was killed.

[curiouskarmadog]

- CKD looks bad for never lynching any scum.

you bet I do, all I really have in defense of that is "as scum I blah blah blah". Bottom line: i know we are no where near LYLO, but if we get there, I dont want to be anywhere near it. I will go as far to say, we will probably lose if I get to lylo. to get there means we have screwed up a lot. I am far to easy to put a case together based on these passed days.

if I was scum I would try to keep me around until the end, then it would be a slam dunk.

I am not giving up, though. I am just saying if I get the lynch today, I get why. I am going to read/reread when I can to help, but my judgement/calls have been wrong, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

My initial inclination is to vote for CDB. But at the moment I see that as cognitive dissonance. After CDB replaced in, chaos' slot wasn't stickingly-out scummy, so in that regard I'm beating a dead horse here. Nevertheless if chaos hadn't gone and bailed out back then, I'm fairly confident that he'd have been lynched at some point. And the moment in the game where he chose to bail wasn't the best, as he was a strong beacon of suspicion and clearly decided to replace out and hope his replacement did better. That's

rather

really annoying.
So in a nutshell I'm not going to drop the CDB case unless he's confirmed town, but at this point I'd like to look around for other scummy individuals as a big chunk of my reasons for voting for CDB has gone pretty stale.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

I am not giving up, though. I am just saying if I get the lynch today, I get why.

This sentence seems to stick out to me. I think it's because of the attitude behind it, what with the almost martyr-like veiled appeal. Maybe that's just me.

All the same I don't see someone like CKD-scum in this game playing that way (i.e. not being on any scum lynches).

[Green Crayons]

I agree with Riddle about his feelings w/r/t acryon.

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Safest scum play on D3 would be to not kill your remaining scum partner, but not to follow your likely-to-be-lynched partner on another wagon. That narrows my focus to Amy and CKD.

-----

CKD's interaction with scrambles:

Day 1:

- Minor, incidental references to Blonde, nothing substantive.
- Minor interaction about scrambles voting Beli, starting at Post 343 and ending at Post 401 (a less than 12-hour exchange that spanned only a handful of posts).

Day 2:

- Only mentions scrambles as parts of other player's or the mod's quotes, does not directly interact with scrambles.
- Does a weird thing suggesting that both Beli-scum and scrambles-scum should be replaced by the mod in Post 785. Almost too on the nose to be a coincidence.

Day 3:

- Once again, only mentions scrambles as parts of other player's or the mod's quotes or in passing as part of reviewing VCs (but makes no substantive commentary w/r/t scrambles).
- UP UNTIL Post 1336, where he finally actually gets into some substantive interaction with scrambles. But most of this is vague suspicions (e.g., "scrambles is coming off really..odd?", "this was a weird way to address this post", "Page 50, still not liking scrambles, he is avoiding questions and when people call him on these actions, his defense..is…just strange?").
- After expressing suspicions of scrambles in Post 1336, he continues a thread he started there of buddying me in Post 1343, here by suggesting that he is "maybe" into seeing scrambles lynched as I have stated at this point in time.
- Resumes silence on scrambles, only to pop up near the very end of the day questioning farside why she voted scrambles (Post 1636) and asking for a case against scrambles (Post 1637). Never actually votes or looks close to voting scrambles.
- The request for the case against scrambles in Post 1637 is weird, because CKD only wants a case pertaining to whether scrambles was lying (and not about scrambles interaction with Beli-scum). CKD states in this very post that CKD recalls scrambles admitted to having lied, but just wants someone else to help provide him with post numbers. Looks like CKD is looking for excuses to delay coming to an opinion on scrambles.

-----

Amy's interaction with scrambles:

Day 1:

- First vote is a self-vote (Post 9). Shortly thereafter, votes Blonde immediately after Blonde makes his first post of the game (Post 23). No explanation as to why.
- Challenges Snuggly's (Titus-slot) vote on Blonde in Post 47, but makes a similar challenge to Naked's vote on Toby in Post 62.
- Discredits Chaos' (CDB-slot) defense of Blonde in Post 64.
- Short interaction with Blonde in Post 87, responding to Blonde's softball question regarding Amy's non-Beli suspicions. (Amy points to Chaos.)
- Short interaction with Blonde in Post 139, defending her read of farside as null/town.
- All interaction with the slot ceases upon scrambles replacement of Blonde.

Day 2:

- Does not interact with scrambles at all.

Day 3:

- States that she sees CDB and acryon as the final two scum in Post 1347. Immediately within that post states that scrambles' ISO looks okay, but is not adverse to his lynch. 3 minutes later, stated a leaning-scumread on scrambles in Post 1348. Later clarifies that she has a scumread on scrambles (Post 1351), even though she didn't see "any blatantly scummy shit" (Post 1352). Ultimately resorts to explaining the discrepancy as "bad wording" (Post 1388).
- Finds scrambles interaction with Riddle looking like it comes from town, so that scrambles' "scumminess has midlly alleviated" in Post 1409 and Post 1587.
- Post 1632 is a bit weird, because Amy states that she doesn't want to defend scrambles, but simultaneously says that she disagrees "with the premise of the lynch."

-----

TAKEAWAYS:

- So both CKD and Amy had very limited interactions with Blonde/scrambles throughout D1 and D2. However, Amy actually interacts with the slot on D1, whereas CKD merely mentions the slot in passing. However, the Blonde/Amy interactions are not exactly rough and tumble stuff, and it's all very surface discussion.

- D3 is really where their play diverges w/r/t scrambles.

When Amy finally pipes up, she basically lists scrambles as her third most suspicious ("bad wording" notwithstanding), but then that read slowly shifts to town by the end of the day. I can't necessarily fault that, as I had problems with my own scrambles read.

Conversely, when CKD finally pipes up, he states that scrambles is suspicious and then keeps hitting that note throughout the rest of the day. However, he never goes so far to actually vote to pursue that suspicion, and instead makes weird excuses for not voting scrambles as the deadline was approaching.


VOTE: CKD

[Green Crayons]

As for Farside, Beli attacked them had day 1 for going after the scrambles slot.

Beli acted super righteous in pursuing farside, as if his cause against farside was handed down from above.

Totally bus material.

[Green Crayons]

That situation would, of course, be Beli-scum defending Blonde/scrambles-scum by attacking farside-scum who was attacking Blonde/scrambles-scum.


It's scum v. scum v. scum. Ballsy.