Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[farside22]

No = now.

[farside22]

Farside:
Do you think Titus' slot would go and bus both her partners, Beli and Scrambles? I don't see how that is a plausible scum move, in my opinion.

I've done it in the past.

[farside22]

@farside:

Titus isn't scum. Riddle isn't scum. Out of the remaining three players, who is scum?

POE would be cbd if that is the case.

Both Titus's and CDB's timing and placement on the Beli wagon could easily be read as a bus. That's all well and good in a vacuum, but that's not the only relevant scum vote. Neither of them looked like they were bussing a partner when it came to scrambles.

Titus's play style admittedly allows her to be a sneaky scum. Going after Riddle is anathema to being scum with Titus's play style generally and how it has manifested in this game.

Titus isn't scum.

So bussing and making no case is town? Please let me sit here and give you a VCA that doesn't add up for a town read.

Farside:
Do you think Titus' slot would go and bus both her partners, Beli and Scrambles? I don't see how that is a plausible scum move, in my opinion.

I've done it in the past.

Sure, I've done it too. The point here is 'plausible'. I think it's more likely for CKD to be scum rather than scum such as Titus double-bussing. We should consider the most likely options first.

Let's theorize for a moment. We both know scum bus. How often do you see scum defend not just one but both buddies

[farside22]

You should all vote CKD, trust me on this. For one, we're not leaving him to LyLo (easy mislynch) and for two, he's the most likely scum contender.

It's not worthwhile to think about who else you think is scum at this stage. Don't worry about it. Don't forget, if CKD flips town, 2 more people as well as CKD will die before LyLo so additional time spent quabbling about whether you think Farside, CDB etc is scum is wasted.

a) If you think CDB is scum, vote CKD
b) If you think GC is scum, vote CKD
c) If you think Farside is scum, vote CKD
d) If you think I am scum, vote CKD
e) If you think Titus is scum, vote CKD
f) If you think CKD is scum, vote CKD

I get where you are going with this. It goes against my whole grain to vote someone I don't scum read, unless it's deadline and a lynch needs to happen.

[farside22]

Sorry, I know I'm very behind on making a meaningful contribution Today. Ever since acryon claimed, I've not had much to latch onto in this game and the big arguments at the moment are just making me annoyed rather than intrigued. I'm going to be busy tomorrow but this game will be my first priority when I'm back, starting by rereading the scum lynches to look for buddies.

I would like to know where you stand before the day ends.

Let's theorize for a moment. We both know scum bus. How often do you see scum defend not just one but both buddies

Once, and it was a similar situation. An experienced player as scum gambiting the whole "oh god my reads suck" stance.

I will concede it's rare though, as you're right in that scum bus most of the time.

fair enough.
I'm just still thinking more about what i know of old school play and how ckd has played.

[farside22]

I'm starting to rethink GC.
I need to check to see if I'm going crazy.

[farside22]

gc: I recalled you pushing a lynch day 4 and day 5 on me.
I was wondering why you stated the following

just answer the question though...I am hung, flip town..you get little or less from Amy today...lets say she doesnt join my wagon. will you be voting her tomorrow (all things constant)?

Probably farside before Amy, assuming absolutely nothing happens with those players between now and then.

But voted for amy anyways?

[farside22]

I don't get the problem your asking CKD.
I vote scrambles do to vote count on the last page and saw deadline was coming up and then since I had time i went back over things.

[farside22]

In 1636, I asked you what your case against scrambles was.

You didnt answer my question, but you did post a lot of my quotes in 1640 indicating that you did read my ISO.

GC's point is if you really wanted to push the scrambles lynch, why didnt you address my question in 1636? You clearly saw my question.

I don't remember.

I know that sounds like a shit response, but I don't remember seeing your questions or why I quoted all the stuff and didn't respond to your questions.
I know most days I'm home with multiple interruptions and miss things along the way.

I'm starting to rethink GC.
I need to check to see if I'm going crazy.

I know why I think GC is scummy..

what are you checking here?

just give me a little bit leeway.

gc: I recalled you pushing a lynch day 4 and day 5 on me.
I was wondering why you stated the following

just answer the question though...I am hung, flip town..you get little or less from Amy today...lets say she doesnt join my wagon. will you be voting her tomorrow (all things constant)?

Probably farside before Amy, assuming absolutely nothing happens with those players between now and then.

But voted for amy anyways?

I mean, the answer is literally right there when I voted for Amy:

Sigh.


After today, especially late game day, CKD looks pretty town. I guess his play today could be a gambit -- "let me throw myself upon the mercy of the town with plenty of LYNCH ME's" -- but I really don't think so. Couple that with

how

he went about not voting Beli (hard defense) and scrambles (actually appeared to inquire into the merits of a scrambles vote, even after scrambles was locked into the lynch via the most-votes-absent-majority rule), I think CKD is town.

I also think CDB looks lean town. Scum wouldn't bank on "forgetting" a pretty vital rule to excuse play. His reasons for unvoting CKD to vote Amy don't strike me as suspicious -- I myself have said that I have X-number of lynch candidates, and I don't particularly care what order they get lynched in. scrambles refusal to vote CDB is weird, and not something I'm just forgetting. But that alone isn't going to really do it for me.

That leaves me with farside and Amy.

Nobody appears willing to join Amy and I on farside. Fine. UNVOTE: farside, VOTE: Amy. She really has become the lurker queen, and has failed to really participate at all this game day. I wouldn't want her at LYLO because of that, as it would be a serious knock against her towniness.

Well here is my issue.

You stated that you were town reading CKD at the end of day 4.
However today you stated the following.

UNVOTE: farside
VOTE: CKD

I know for a fact that I am town, and I think I have played less scummy than farside. I will be happy to try to convince you that farside is more likely scum than myself if CKD is in fact town.

I don't understand the change in view.

As with Amy you stated this:

I don't follow you at all.

-----

Riddle and Titus are town. That leaves CKD, CDB, and farside.

Farside is most likely scum. Nobody but Amy (dang it) agreed with me on this. Between CKD and CDB, I'm going to have to go with CKD.

You knew she was the only one who thought I was scum but yet you still voted for her.
We are all well aware before Amy's lynch that a lynch on the majority is all that matters to make a lynch. So why did you lynch a player that agreed with you? Why did you push back to lynching Amy instead of me? Why are you now up for lynching CKD over me?

[farside22]

I don't know if you're being willfully ignorant of the context in which the statement was made, or just throwing shit at the wall to avoid being lynched as scum.

I set up a logical progression: Riddle accepts the conclusion that farside is scum if (1) CKD flips town and (2) I am town. I therefore set up the points to get to that conclusion by stating (1) if CKD flips town and (2) I know I am town, thus I will be able to get Riddle to the conclusion.

See this bugs the shit out of me because I don't think CKD is scum and now I'm paranoid you are setting up mislynches for a scum win

[farside22]

See this bugs the shit out of me because I don't think CKD is scum and now I'm paranoid you are setting up mislynches for a scum win

And how is this me setting up mislynches?

Nice try there. I noticed you focus on one sentence. I started off saying I'm not scum reading CKD.
Now please explain why you went to lynch Amy and now vote for CKD over me, especially yesterday and how the vote count was looking.
There was 2 votes on me. I was the one pushing Amy the hardest as scum. And from what I have seen, town is stubborn as shit when it comes to scum reads.

wtf, setting up lynches is not the issue?! almost everyone in the game town or scum can be said to be setting up lynches. CDB and titus have both said things that if looked at a certain way can be said to be setting up lynches.

MY CONCERN is that GC keeps saying ..."I am doing this because I know for a fact I am town". What town person says this? It is fucking understood. He "knows for a fact"??? it sounds strange. That is why I looked it up. It doesnt say it as town. He does however say it as scum.

anyone curious as to why he cant provide one town game where he used this "logic" before??

See above for issue. He has gone from voting me day 4 to voting amy. To pushing me day 5 to voting you. I see this as pushing a scum read to leave me a live in lylo.

vote: Green Crayons

Did you notice if there was any other words he used as scum or town when meta searching?

confirm

vote green crayons.

nailed you.

man, if someone I supposedly thought was scum, had a case against me that was false, I would at least try to attempt to show that he was either wrong or deliberately scummy. But you are not doing it. Kind of like what you are accusing farside of doing on the scrambles wagon. If you think I am scum, please...show everybody how scummy/wrong I am...please. this is your chance...

I don't see him saying anything that implies you as scum. He is saying the case is shit and talking it out. Not hey this case is shit and you are scum.

[farside22]

@ckd: here was the vot change from me to you.

UNVOTE: farside
VOTE: CKD

I know for a fact that I am town, and I think I have played less scummy than farside. I will be happy to try to convince you that farside is more likely scum than myself if CKD is in fact town.

Prior he was pushing on me. Here is one thing he said and there was more then this, just need a computer

It's the fact that making a lot of noise about voting a scumbuddy and actually voting to lynch a scumbuddy serve the same purpose: distancing. It's just that the former is a safer version of it than the latter, but you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of actually helping to thin their own numbers.

Clarification: It's not that I don't think that scum hasn't bussed this game, it's just that you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of voting-to-lynch

both

of their scum buddies over the notion that scum took other distancing actions that had less impact on their actual numbers.

farside's play looks much more like someone who didn't want to bus (refused to vote Beli despite constantly saying how bad Beli's play was, going so far as to say that either Beli or chaos was scum), but then when the second scum was on the chopping block but shy of a majority vote, thought a bus to push him over the edge would net her town points.

[farside22]

I don't see him saying anything that implies you as scum. He is saying the case is shit and talking it out. Not hey this case is shit and you are scum.

so his vote on me is saying.....?

Read GC's comment day 4 I quoted where he was town reading you. Today he's voting you.
I think his vote on you is nothing more the support of riddle's comment.

[farside22]

I think GC is scummy, too, but would prefer a CKD lynch. I think I said in earlier posts if you have CKD as a scum suspect, even if not the #1 choice, we should lynch him today so he isn't a liability in LyLo.

CKD's push on GC is quite bad even though I do suspect GC myself. I've never used magic 'phrases' in my scumplay but not in my townplay. He's trying to make a case out of thin air and see if it sticks.

Why does GC keep saying that if CKD is town you'd think I was scum if it wasn't an ulterior motive there?

[farside22]

If CDB came in here and said that he wants to vote farside 100%, I will switch in a heartbeat. Since that is unlikely in light of his commentary this entire game, I'm not going to waste my vote on farside while we have people like Titus pushing Riddle of all people and (prior to her not-surprising-in-the-slightest GC suspicions) farside pushing Titus.

Oh no's! How dare I have a scum read on someone that looks to be wanting to lynch me come lylo and setting that in motion.
Please explain why I should see that as town motive vs scum setting up for the win?

[farside22]

If you are actually town, and the only basis for thinking I'm scum is because I think that you're scum, then you are saying I am scum because I am incorrect in reading your alignment.

Is that anything I ever said......at all......it is not alignment indicative to think a player is scummy it is how you are setting it up that looks scummy.

Maybe you missed it when I referenced your vote on me then on Amy or the vote you placed on me and then Ckd.

I seriously doubt you missed where I got my conclusion.

Now that I have finished up with some work, I can address this.

See this bugs the shit out of me because I don't think CKD is scum and now I'm paranoid you are setting up mislynches for a scum win

And how is this me setting up mislynches?

Nice try there. I noticed you focus on one sentence. I started off saying I'm not scum reading CKD.
Now please explain why you went to lynch Amy and now vote for CKD over me, especially yesterday and how the vote count was looking.
There was 2 votes on me. I was the one pushing Amy the hardest as scum. And from what I have seen, town is stubborn as shit when it comes to scum reads.

1. I focused on the only part of your single sentence that has any point: that I'm "setting up mislynches."
2. You avoid answering my question: how am I setting up mislynches? Great job on avoiding explaining yourself.
3. Whether you think CKD is or isn't scum isn't relevant to you thinking I'm setting up mislynches. Great job on deflecting.
4. I've repeatedly explained why I switched from you to Amy yesterday, and from you to CKD today.

NOBODY WILL VOTE FARSIDE WITH ME. I HAVE MORE THAN ONE SUSPECT IN THE LYNCH POOL. THEREFORE I AM WILLING TO VOTE TO LYNCH OTHERS IN MY LYNCH POOL WHO ARE NOT FARSIDE.

Hey look, I put it in bold and caps. Now you can't pretend you didn't read it, again. (Who am I kidding, I expect the question "why did you switch from farside to Amy, and farside to CKD?" five more times before the game is through.)

In regards to points 1-4:
This isn't fucking illogical at all. I stated a town read on CKD and I know I'm town. Therefore setting up mislynches. I could be wrong about CKD but when you keep voting me and then vote the next biggest fucking wagon I seriously doubt that town read on CKD.

Did you notice if there was any other words he used as scum or town when meta searching?

confirm

vote green crayons.

nailed you.

man, if someone I supposedly thought was scum, had a case against me that was false, I would at least try to attempt to show that he was either wrong or deliberately scummy. But you are not doing it. Kind of like what you are accusing farside of doing on the scrambles wagon. If you think I am scum, please...show everybody how scummy/wrong I am...please. this is your chance...

I don't see him saying anything that implies you as scum. He is saying the case is shit and talking it out. Not hey this case is shit and you are scum.

1. "Hey did you find any other magic phrases that would show GC is scum?"
2. Coupled with keeping a distance on actually embracing that horrible line of suspicion CKD is pushing.

How this convo should be going:

Farside: I asked for a simple reason.

GC: Why did you ask farside

Farside: Well GC, thanks for asking. I asked my question because a game not to long ago I referenced a player and the words they used as a scum tell. It wasn't just one word or phrase, which was why I asked CKD if there was something more.

[farside22]

I'd like to here from cbd today. He's been pretty Mia today.
Of course I notice GC doesn't call him on this.
I wonder why?

[farside22]

I'd like to here from cbd today. He's been pretty Mia today.
Of course I notice GC doesn't call him on this.
I wonder why?

You can replace "GC" with any other player and actually be more accurate than the lie farside just typed.

Nobody

has mentioned CDB's absence from the thread

except for me, who referenced CDB's lack of posting

, in Post 2310.

Oh yes that completely reads like the shit you game me for 2 game days.

Oh wait no it doesn't.

Point farside.

[farside22]

I remembered this this morning.

Here is farside repeatedly egging me on to vote Amy from yesterday:

23hours left. It's either going to be GC or CKD today. The people whom have their votes parked in other slots should move.

Well this is a bit delusional.


I'll switch to CDB if necessary, but I'd prefer a farside. CKD only as a last resort to avoid a no lynch.

Why does amy get a pass for just sheeping your read?

You realize there is literally little to no interaction between her and scramble?

Why is cbd a scum read?

It really boggles my mind that Beli's really shitty push against farside has made her immune from suspicion from most of the town, even as she has become essentially a nonentity surpassing even Amy in this game.

I'm going to just put you on ignore at this point.

It seems your okay with Amy's non expressive behavoir during the scrambles lynch, but when I state a v/la during most of this day it's scummy.
Your double standards on players is very much a peeve.

And then farside comes into the thread today and acts completely bewildered why I would vote Amy.

Jesus Mary and Joseph talk about scummy.

I asked you that because you repeatedly pointed out my lack of comments and catch up as scummy.
REPEATEDLY!
So yes I'm going to ask you about your vote on me vs someone I see doing the same fucking thing.

[farside22]

So, Riddle, is CKD putting himself at L-1 still part of his gambit?

If he's scum, he's literally relying solely upon WIFOM to stop his lynch. There's at least one more likely candidate for today - myself - that he could probably convince at least Titus to join over Riddle, to add to his and farside's votes.

Like, it's a pretty bad scum strategy.

For anyone freeking reading this.
Tell me why GC is voting CKD when he clearly reads in this post that CKD'so action don't read scummy.

[farside22]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I'm done conversing with farside.



She's either scum or we're talking past each other.

This is not a conversation.
Your making a statement against me and I defend myself.
You acted like I goaded your vote on amy.
Where the fuck that came from now vs prior when I mentioned it is beyond my understanding.
Are you not accountable for your actions? Your vote on ckd sure as shit is not by my doing, but for you to lynch me if CKD is town. Everything I read today and yesterday shows no apparent scum read on CKD.
Tell me how I'm wrong.

[farside22]

CKD: do you see where GC believes you are scum?

[farside22]

If you are in fact town, and farside is in fact scum, how does farside hammering you look town at all?

Especially since she has predicated her "GC is setting up mislynches because the two players he thinks are scum candidates I think is town!" on the basis that she reads you as town.

In short, farsidescum wouldn't hammer you in the 24-hour window you gave her because it wouldn't look town.

Bawhahahaha.

Let me get this straight you think scum would hold backdoing a hammer vote when offer for town points, instead of hammering to stop discussion.
Please show me where you've seen that happen

[farside22]

@gc
Your post ask how I look town.
I asked the reverse on how it looks scum while pointing out that I was asked to hammer.

If you are in fact town, and farside is in fact scum, how does farside hammering you look town at all?

Especially since she has predicated her "GC is setting up mislynches because the two players he thinks are scum candidates I think is town!" on the basis that she reads you as town.

In short, farsidescum wouldn't hammer you in the 24-hour window you gave her because it wouldn't look town.

[farside22]

The post you just quoted explains why you hammering CKD would look scummy.

It's the second sentence. It's right there. I will repeat myself, but it's really right there. Second sentence. Can't be missed. But here it is, repeated:

You have called me scummy for setting up mislynches. That wonderfully horrific line of suspicion is based on you thinking CKD is town. You have said this today. You have said this recently today. Thus, if you were to hammer CKD after you have not only been calling him town today, but have been basing his town-ness to call me scum, you would look like you're rushing to end the day (for no reason) by getting rid of a player you think is town. Which would look scummy, not town.

Is this you baiting me now?

[farside22]

Well, two main things I picked up from the few pages since my last post: CKD looks townier (which, as above, only makes me angry) and I'm on board to consider GC's case on farside in a way that I wasn't before.

I'll start with CKD, as it's brief. This post, I think, is more likely to come from town than scum, someone who genuinely wants to figure out the game, even though I think that, as evidence, it's laughably, inadmissably bad.

GC asks me to consider farside as a buddy here, says as part of it that farside didn't have much towncred because she hard-defended Belisarius. However, I'm pretty sure that by then she was already widely townread as a result of Belisarius's interactions with her (and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thought that at the time), so I'm not really sure how true that assertion is. I'll grant you, though, that it's kind of a limp justification for her scrambles vote but I also think that a town player who just really wanted to lynch acryon first would probably be entitled to a certain unenthusiasm. But, y'know, it's got me wondering.

This vote from farside is the first time in ages that I've really had a scumping from her. Coming, as it does, just after CKD votes GC and backing up, as it does, his terrible reasoning, it's kind of terrifying, because there's just enough of a GC backlash murmuring around that it looks awfully optimistic.

And then we have this. I'd been wondering as I came in and out of the thread to dodge posts and then catch up over the last few days what sort of reaction people would have to my absences. I had a vague theory that, in a game this dense, scum would prefer to duck out of a pages-long, wally argument by pointing out 'hey this guy's lurking' and farside kind of fits this - but it's just bizarre that she uses pointing it out as an excuse to attack GC, which is just WTF? As GC points out, hardly anyone has made a big deal of my absences Today, but only he's scummy for it?

As of right now, as far as I can tell the votes are 3-1-1 for CKD, GC and Riddleton, in that order, but I might be wrong. As it stands, I'd be happier getting onto a 2 with GC on farside than vote for any of those, but I want to do some of that rereading around the scum lynches before I commit.

First off I noticed green was talking about voting me and voted for CKD. It struck me as familiar and I noticed the same tendency the day before. He keeps pushing at me but votes for the person he listed. I also recalled he town read CKD at the end of day 4, which makes his vote on CKD even scummier.

Next I brought up your lack of comment toward GC because he has been the player to mention players that are not posting. He brought it up multiple times against me. He barely even registered calling you or called it scummy. It makes no sense to lay into me repeatedly as a scum tell and then back off on saying it about anyone else unless it is not a scum tell at all.

[farside22]

Titus and CKD: join me on the GC wagon.

There is nothing I read from GC today that he even remotely believes CKD is scum.
He is using riddle's desire and will most like push for my lynch. I see the set up and if you missed the implication please let me know so I can smack sense into you.

[farside22]

Let's use fact instead of fiction.

At the end of day 4 this is what GC stated about CKD.

Sigh.


After today, especially late game day, CKD looks pretty town. I guess his play today could be a gambit -- "let me throw myself upon the mercy of the town with plenty of LYNCH ME's" -- but I really don't think so. Couple that with

how

he went about not voting Beli (hard defense) and scrambles (actually appeared to inquire into the merits of a scrambles vote, even after scrambles was locked into the lynch via the most-votes-absent-majority rule), I think CKD is town.

I also think CDB looks lean town. Scum wouldn't bank on "forgetting" a pretty vital rule to excuse play. His reasons for unvoting CKD to vote Amy don't strike me as suspicious -- I myself have said that I have X-number of lynch candidates, and I don't particularly care what order they get lynched in. scrambles refusal to vote CDB is weird, and not something I'm just forgetting. But that alone isn't going to really do it for me.

Then GC breaks it down to either me or amy.

That leaves me with farside and Amy.

Nobody appears willing to join Amy and I on farside. Fine. UNVOTE: farside, VOTE: Amy. She really has become the lurker queen, and has failed to really participate at all this game day. I wouldn't want her at LYLO because of that, as it would be a serious knock against her towniness.

Now he started the day voting me but does say one of me or cbd here.

It's CDB or farside. They are the only two potential bussers from the scrambles wagon.

He sort of defends CKD here.

Well I hit submit and not preview.

Those posts show why I don't think CKD was consciously avoiding voting a scummate.

Rethinking my Post 2013, I agree with acryon that it's reasonable to assume that scum will bus at least one of their scum partners.

I've stated why farside's scrambles vote looks like a bus.

If farside is actually town, POE means that the only potential scum on the scrambles wagon was CDB. I think CDB is more likely to be scum that CKD for the reasons quoted above.

Now he has options for 3 players where before it was me or cbd.

Actually, if farside isn't scum, I'd probably have to hope that I get NKed because frankly I don't know which of CDB or CKD I would lynch first.

But hey sure riddle, whatever you say and suddenly CKD is a scum read that is to be lynched when he see's his weak point going no where.

Yeah, Riddle, that's probably the best argument for why he's scum.

My vote, sure as shit ain't moving.

[farside22]

I'd like to here from cbd today. He's been pretty Mia today.
Of course I notice GC doesn't call him on this.
I wonder why?

Oh yes that completely reads like the shit you game me for 2 game days.

Oh wait no it doesn't.

Point farside.

Oh, and of course this is just a bullshit lie to justify her bad vote on me. I never suspected anyone for failing to post (or going V/LA). It has always been that farside was using an inordinate amount of "catchup posts" instead of just diving right into the game:

I'm not saying her V/LA is fabricated. I'm saying that going absent and then coming back with a serious of catch up posts -- and this is her habitual play this game, not a one-time event -- is aligned with scum play.

I'm phone posting, so can't link, but porochaz did the exact thing as scum in Oldie Mafia 2 (normal large).

Oh, I can link this now.

Oldie Mafia 2. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was porochaz. He had a legitimate excuse for his V/LA (funeral and other bad IRL experiences), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 444, Post 596, Post 676.

Also, I just got finished with a game where this happened again. Mini 1609. The scum that was constantly doing catch up posts was massive. Once again, a legitimate reason (no weeked access), but he kept doing posts like these: Post 2434, 2497, and Post 3336.

Once again, it's not so much that someone has V/LA, and then decides to make catch up posts. It's the heavy emphasis of using catch up posts, as it allows a person to look like they are providing the town with a lot of activity, but it isn't really all that substantive and useful for the town.

Of course, being V/LA was the predicate for farside relying heavily on her catch up posts, but it's the catch up posts and not her V/LA that is the suspicious part of her play for purposes of that line of suspicion. And as I pointed out when Riddle wanted me to do the work for farside, farside could have jumped in and made a (what would have been a pretty convincing) meta defense: that she has been doing similar catch up posts in all of her games.

I was on V/LA for 2 game days! Not all fucking game.
I was not the only fucking player doing catch and behide which makes this the most worthless point you've made.

[farside22]

lol..

unvote.

not that I want to be in the defending GC business but.

farside/riddleton, why would it be a good GCscum play, to take his vote off of me at -1 to put it on farside that one seems to want to vote?

i personally dont know what to think of GC...I do think his vote of me was strange, but given the particular game climate, I get it. I dont get however, why he questioned riddleton about my wagon, when he was on it. If he didnt feel good about it, why not unvote? I didnt like the "farside is scummy because of the lack of posting" inclination. I still dont like (and I know I am the only one who thinks this) "I know for a fact I am town" bit.

on the other hand, timing of his votes on previous non CKD wagons, didnt look scum motivated. I also dont see certain posts/actions as coming from scum.

truly on the fence here.


going to reread.

still need more from CDB and titus.....

Did he ever explain the scum read when I pushed him?
Nope.
Instead of explaining he just votes me, especially since cbd mentioned a thought of me as scum.

You're right, sorry. Scum never bus their budies!

I've made cases on scumbuddies before. What's your point?

This^

Scum laying out a solid case against a buddy, when that buddy has no prior suspicions, when that buddy is the last living buddy, on Day 3, is borderline anti-win condition. It gets peopled riled up against the buddy even if the scum were to ultimately abandon his buddy vote.

Is it possible that I am scum who bussed his buddy? Yes, list most things, it is possible. Is it more plausible that I am scum who bussed his buddy than a player who replaced into the game, who had a good grasp of the players and slots, and did pretty well on deducing at least one slot who was scum? No.

This is actually the same flawed reasoning for your position that CKD is scum who refused to vote either of his buddies. It's possible. Why is it more plausible than the alternative? Because reasons.

I've so made a case on my buddy and fought with him to say it doesn't happen at all is illogical, especially as you keep ignore that beli pushed a vote on me day 1 for no reason as a scum tell.

Hypocrites are my pet peeve.

it feels like GC left the CDB wagon at a pretty pivotal point.

Vote Count 3.11

Titus: (2) acryon, scrambles
acryon: (1) Farside22
ChannelDelibird: (3) Curiouskarmadog , Kalimar, Amy Farrah Fowler

(L-2)

scrambles: (4) Titus, Riddleton, ChannelDelibird, Green Crayons

Not Voting:

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-10-18 20:47:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[/area]

This is the one bit I could consider.
I still have issue with his town read to scum read on you.

[farside22]

i dont recall seeing one. for scum to not only not vote someone else to save themselves (being the last of a scum team) AND to put themselves at -1 (being the last of a scum team) in the same game is pretty ballsy or at least very fucking rare. Anything is possible. Fuck, if I am ever in this position as scum, I might grow a pair and do it.

But you are using this as a basis for your actions....so I wanted to see a game that

you

have seen. So I know...okay, Riddleton is not lying.

Just to throw my two cents in this.
I recall shos going on about one for one and vote X when I flip town. He was scum.
I don't believe I've ever seen scum self vote as the last scum standing.

[farside22]

Someone wake me when GC explains his town read day 4 to scum read day 5, other then him pointing to riddles post.
Because I already showed he had me and cbd prior to CKD today.

[farside22]

Oh goodie, farside's now back to the "town can only vote their #1 scum suspect, even though this isn't LYLO, even though nobody else will vote her with you, even though people are wanting to vote out of your scum pool" bullshit theory of town play.

Did I say that at all?

*looks*

Nope

I pointed out the town read GC had on CKD day 4 and day 5 he had me and cbd but suddenly switched yo CKD.
You know the player you stated a town read on.
Fascinating you keep dodging that point when even riddle gets that.

*goes back to sleep*

[farside22]

Someone wake me when GC explains his town read day 4 to scum read day 5, other then him pointing to riddles post.
Because I already showed he had me and cbd prior to CKD today.

Boggles my mind that you would expect people to be so solid and unflinching in their reads in a game that has dragged on so confusingly with absolutely zero consensus. We couldn't even agree to properly lynch our lynch Yesterday, ferchrisssakes.

Hun, my reads change, I expect change. I also expect a reason he had to change his reads back to CKD, which is what I have asked repeatedly.
I'm not asking for what he said prior, I'm asking why he switched from town to scum today.
Everything he posted towards riddle reads as though he does not scum read CKD at all.
If you want to quote where he felt CKD was scum today other then as possible 3rd scum (I guess), then let me know.
I'll seriously bite you when I flip town if you vote riddle over GC.

[farside22]

My thought about GC came because he makes a comment liked this.

If you think CKD is first or second most likely to be scum, then you should vote CKD today.

If you think CKD is only fourth of fifth likely to be scum, then you shouldn't vote CKD at all.

The middle spot - third most likely to be scum - is where it gets tricky. If CKD gets lynched today and flips town, the worst that will happen from your position is that your first two candidates for scum will survive the two NKs, along with yourself, thereby requiring you to reevaluate your reads.

However if you read post 2324, quoted last, it doesn't read like he is reading CKD town and I pointed out previous to this he had cbd as scum as a second choice prior to this.

I don't know if you're being willfully ignorant of the context in which the statement was made, or just throwing shit at the wall to avoid being lynched as scum.

I set up a logical progression: Riddle accepts the conclusion that farside is scum if (1) CKD flips town and (2) I am town. I therefore set up the points to get to that conclusion by stating (1) if CKD flips town and (2) I know I am town, thus I will be able to get Riddle to the conclusion.

This is where I see a motive with lynches. I know I'm town so his move to CKD and saying he could convince riddle on my lynch if CKD is town makes me read lining up lynches for a scum win.

So, Riddle, is CKD putting himself at L-1 still part of his gambit?

If he's scum, he's literally relying solely upon WIFOM to stop his lynch. There's at least one more likely candidate for today - myself - that he could probably convince at least Titus to join over Riddle, to add to his and farside's votes.

Like, it's a pretty bad scum strategy.

[farside22]

Cbd: your taking about GC town reading amy but at the end he changes and votes for amy.
He's kept his options open since day four.

Also I tend to think about games when I sleep and things dawn on me I hadn't considered

[farside22]

Also, hang on, WHAT? GC townreading Amy? That's not a thing that I mention in the above large post, because it's not a thing that happened. As evidenced in both that post and in this from GC's that I've just reached in my read, Amy was part of his viable lynch pool. I even made a point of commenting on that above.

You said it here:

GC then gets townpoints for finding reasonably solid reasons for townreading both acryon and Amy, as well as continuing to back up a growing townread on me. If he's scum, CKD is the easiest mislynch for which he's positioning himself at this point. Not impossible, but doing it the hard way.

[farside22]

I'm looking through this myself.

Post 1087 not keen on amy vote from CBD and prior to this didn't believe CBD's read on Amy.
post 1321 his only reason for dinging amy was her reaction and reduced activity in the game.
post1350 I note he jumps on this one post from amy where she contradicts herself.
post1354 reads as though he doesn't see it as something scummy
post1390 clarifies not scummy
this postshows he is uncomfortable with amy
What alarms me is if he wasn't comfortable with Amy and her post and reaction about scrambles why do I see this post with still looking at options
quickly after this is the vca work here where cbd is back on the list
Which changes once again here Why did he back down his own thoughts and follow riddle? Why not work out and talk it though back and forth?
here we have the me before amy comment
here you see GC is talking about amy interaction and why he didn't see it as scum
He follows Amy logic here for ckd
finally we have [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6357676]this vote on Amy.

He seriously changed his mind back and forth between me, ckd, me, amy back to ckd back to me and then amy for really the only reason was what?
I'm asking because most of his post was seeing beli and her and even scrambles looking at her as town and not scum.

That vote from GC onto amy was BS.

Logical my ass CBD

[farside22]

If there are four players in a scum pool, and only one of them is scum, farside doesn't think that I should have ANY town feelings towards any of them.

Even though three of them are town.

Town feelings sure.

Changing reads on a whim and going with any flow that leads to a lynch of a player you were not scum reading that hard for a good fucking reason.

No.

[farside22]

It's like you're ignoring the fact that I have always said you are the scummiest scumbag out of the scum pool, but because I can't get the votes to join you, I switch to other players in the scum pool who I think are relatively the scummiest (after you).

Which changes from Amy to Ckd. Which ever wagon works.

[farside22]

All I hear reading GC's post is waaaahhhh people didn't join me so I went with one of the other 4 reads I listed as scum even though I called them town.

[farside22]

Sorry 3 not 4.

[farside22]

farside needs to hang Today. I don't believe that she believes this nonsense.

You need to read my links and tell me why I'm wrong.

How many people has he listed as scum? Do you know I have seen scum do the exact same thing not to long ago.
It's called keeping your options open and swinging any lynch you want without anything ever going against them.

[farside22]

Apparently having 50% options throughout the game on who to lynch should look town to GC for some reason.

[farside22]

lol

The only lynch I have ~*~ wanted ~*~ for the past two days is a farside lynch.

I have settled for pursuing other lynches. Just like CDB did yesterday. Just like Riddle is doing today.

Riddles options were you or ckd.
he didn't list 3 or 4 people he was willing to lynch day 4 like you did and you sure have no issue with day 6 if I get lynched on pushing what CKD? Riddle? Maybe bring CBD to the ring since he stated riddle as a 2nd option after my lynch.

Let me know how this doesn't read as a game plan.

Where the fuck do I go after today?

No where and tomorrow when I'm dead you will still have your options open.

Give me a fucking break.

[farside22]

You need to read my links and tell me why I'm wrong.

I've read the game. A lot. GC's behaviour is not unnatural. It is reflective of a difficult game in which reads are constantly being questioned and in which we have had to compromise ever since the scrambles lynch. You are holding him to a higher standard than several other players for no good reason.

I'm holding him to a standard that is not freeking higher.
You have 2 scum reads.
Riddle has 2 scum reads
Titus has 2 scum reads.
I have 1.

How the fuck am I holding him to a higher standard?

[farside22]

You have 2 scum reads.
Riddle has 2 scum reads
Titus has 2 scum reads.
I have 1.

Wait, I thought you were all up in arms by the fact that I was looking at only two people: CKD and farside?

This is where I see a motive with lynches. I know I'm town so his move to CKD and saying he could convince riddle on my lynch if CKD is town makes me read lining up lynches for a scum win.

lol, already debunked:

And here's further scum logic. "You think Player X and Player Y are scum candidates. I think Player X and Player Y are town. You must therefore be scum setting up mislynches!"

This surface-level logic - refusing to consider and weigh the basis for a player's suspicions - is a great scum template, because it can be applied to anyone! Examples:

1) farside thinks GC and Titus are scum candidates. I think GC and Titus are town. Therefore farside must be scum, setting up mislynches!
2) Riddle thinks CKD and GC are scum candidates. I think CKD and GC are town. Therefore Riddle must be scum, setting up mislynches!
3) CKD thinks GC and CBD (I think?) are scum candidates. I think GC and CBD are town. Therefore CKD must be scum, setting up mislynches!

lol, double standard, these people aren't also suspicious to farside for the exact same play:

I really can't make it simpler than this, CKD.

Especially

if I thought I had more time than I did, why wouldn't I want somebody who I could still quite plausibly see as town to show signs of reconsidering and making sure that they were on the right track? How many times do I have to explain that the choice between you and Amy is essentially arbitrary to me before you accept that I'm not protraying you as Beelzebub incarnate?

No one's willing to join me on CKD. Thus, my options are stay on CKD and be a stubborn person; or compromise. You even awknowledged this stance yourself with Farside/Amy yesterday.

I already said that CKD and you are my main suspects. Voting CKD first is safer, yes, in the rare event both of you are town. But no one is willing to join me on it (bar GC who doesn't seem to be really buying CKD as scum which farside pointed out)

That's today.

Day 4 you had Amy, me, Ckd and cbd
Today you said CBD and me then switched to Ckd and me.

Let me know which one I should believe since it keeps changing.

[farside22]

farside

, you have one scumread correct, in GC? Whom would you think is scum should GC hypothetically flip town?

POE: would be titus.
She's been MIA since the scrambles vote

[farside22]

I'm not going to keep going back and forth with GC.
I made my point. I don't know why cbd disagrees with me.
I'll go 1 for 1 with GC.
I just want cbd to think about what I said when I flip town, in case he's around during end game.

[farside22]

I just want cbd to think about what I said when I flip town, in case he's around during end game.

why post this sentence...as of right now, you are not going to be lynched.

Votes are tied.
Titus had been MIA lately and I don't know 100% your views.

[farside22]

I just want cbd to think about what I said when I flip town, in case he's around during end game.

why post this sentence...as of right now, you are not going to be lynched.

Votes are tied.
Titus had been MIA lately and I don't know 100% your views.

none of this makes any sense. what does my views have to do with this sentence. and since GC got to 2 first, he will be lynched...soooooo..

I didn't remember who was voted for first.
I know deadline is coming and if you vote me I wanted that out there in case I couldn't make it back online before deadline.
I'm going to be busy with Thanksgiving stuff for the next few days.

Mod: v/la till Friday

[farside22]

Just waiting on replacement.

[farside22]

Zzzxzz

[farside22]

well now I feel bad about asking for an extension, but clearly Titus needed to be replaced and we are in a position where we all need to be here.

I don't have much to say.
It's between me and GC.
I think gc is scum. He thinks I'm scum.
Wash, rinse, repeat

[farside22]

I think gc is scum. He thinks I'm scum.

ummm..just saying.

if GC is scum, why would he think you were scum?

It was a tongue in cheek comment.


I don't think I need to repeat myself on why I'm scum reading GC.

[farside22]

Thank you for replacing in, Ironwood! I think it's quite important that you vote for

farside

green crayon.

Fixed

[farside22]

I missed the post where GC tried to convice iron to vote his number 1 suspect?

*Looks*


Nope, that never happened.

It's GC just shoveling shit

[farside22]

I'm

voting

my #1 suspicion. I posted a tongue in cheek "vote farside" activity post in light of everyone else doing so. I'm happy to let Iron do his read through and address his questions/perspective once he's done.


Riddle is voting his #2 suspicion. Riddle has repeatedly urged Iron to vote his #2 suspicion, without acknowleding his #1 suspicion at all.


Totally the same thing. (This is sarcasm. Your attempt to chuck suspicion at me is clumsy and flawed.)

You used the word convince. So I equate a reason.
Have you switched to riddle as your second scum read now? I lost track of who you would vote for if I'm not lynched category.

[farside22]

Iron: that was a strong case by GC. I'm not going to say otherwise.
My issue with GC is after that.
He does go back and forth with scrambles.
After scrambles lynch he states 4 scum suspects in the game.
Each time he attacks me, the wagon goes nowhere he switches to CKD, switches to amy.
Today he goes after CKD after giving him a town read day 4 and then attacks me again,
If I was the person he felt strongest for, why not start voting me? Why follow riddle if nothing else to make it to lylo?

[farside22]

Each time he attacks me, the wagon goes nowhere

he switches to CKD, switches to amy.

If I was the person he felt strongest for, why not start voting me?

lololol

I miss your reason for not attacking your number 1 suspect today.

Oh that's right you have no reason.

[farside22]

At the start of the day obviously.

[farside22]

Someone ask GC who his second scum suspect is. 10 to 1 he will change it again for no reason

[farside22]

farside, you're not doing a very good at concealing your scumminess at this point.

[farside22]

I had thought the mod was extending the deadline.
Looking back I see it has expired.

GC: if you trollying in going to be pissed

[farside22]

farside --> riddle / CDB --> CKD --> Iron.

I bumped CDB up because I respect a replacee's insight into the game, and Iron is solid.

Why is riddle a scum read. You've been leaning town on him till today.

[farside22]

Vote: no lynch

I really hate this game.
I have no clue and those that have town read me are dead.
Fun.

[farside22]

I swear as soon as GC flipped town this where I stand.
I felt CKD was town. The play by him and defending beli would be rediculous to do as scum.
I remember bits and pieces.
But when I left this game I was leaning cbd after the replacement died.

So I'm back to square one and reviewing riddle and CKD at this point

[farside22]

I'll be doing my reread of both you and riddle tomorrow (sunday)
It's a bit late and all I have is hazy memories from this game.

[farside22]

Well if CKD is scum he could hammer for the win.
If this is it for town please let me know.

[farside22]

Well at least I can now focus on one person today.

I can ask one simple question here

Riddle: why did you vote for me after claiming for days to scum read CKD?

vote: riddle

[farside22]

Well I will make my case and hope you see that you are wrong about riddle ckd.

[farside22]

Sorry this will be an eye bleed post. As always I will be putting a TL'DR at the end of this and this will be the only long post I will be making today.


Since Riddle focused on me and ckd did not hammer that only means ckd is town and riddle is scum. I reviewed his post and found things I had forgotten about this game.
Below in spoilers I point the stuff out.

Spoiler:

To be clear, do think he's trying to seem like a pr?

No. I can't imagine many of his postd being from 'bored townie' as CKD claims.
Would you see him saying 'If I'm not obvtown, I'm scum' in a game where he already has been the leading wagon, as town?

Honestly that post is one huge clusterfuck of WiFOM. As are most of his posts.
VOTE: Beli

This is day 2 where riddle comes in and vote beli after saying nothing about the game.
I found it odd that after coming in the only focus was on beli and he says nothing about anyone else.
At this point most people beside me thought Beli was scum.

Yes, of course I have read through the game. The main thing that caught my attention through my notes was Beli's behaviour. At the moment, I currently think the scumteam consists of Beli + CKD + someone else. I talked about Beli first as he's my top scumread.

Is there anything else you want me to comment/talk about in particular?

Here we have the start of the scum team with ckd.
again no real reason why is stated.

CKD/Beli makes sense based on CKD's constant conjecture Beli is innocent. If Beli flips scum, I'm most certainly going after CKD tomorrow. However, I don't think the reverse necessarily holds true.

Hello GreenCrayons

To answer your question, yes I do believe CKD is attempting a reverse-bus at Belisarius. I also believe them to be partners for other reasons, too, which I'll explain below.

1) CKD is the kind of person to pick things apart. Focuses on the details a lot which can evidently be seen in posts like #578. I say this as it's useful in determining how he reads other people; CKD has never actually mentioned any thoughts or reads to back-up why he things Beli is town. He has made a few off-hand quips now and then, such as in #690 where he comments about 'the VC not adding up', and his comment in #450 where he comments on Beli's speech, but it is nothing substantial. Analysis is rare and scarce. Compare and contrast to his scumcase against Chaos in #687 and his case against Skelda in #272, where he goes into considerably more detail.

2) Another unrelated point, but definitely shows some synergy regardless; look at #549 and Beli's vote on CKD. Beli's comment about the Rule of Three is odd at the very least. I also find it unusual how that post specifically votes for 'curiouskarmadog' rather than 'CKD'. It's the choice of wording that bothers me, as most people would refer to him by shorthand as CKD. The long-name strikes me as unusual and 'forced' behaviour typically reminiscent of scum. CKD's awkward confusion afterwards also seems forced to me.

We have the laughable reverse bus idea he put in play and pushed on repeatedly through the game.

Scrambles, can you comment on what you think about Acryon's titus case?

When I started looking for interaction between riddle and flipped scum I see very little.
One is this post towards scrambles about acryon.
It is a very tame question.

Scrambles

: Regarding "Where do you say you were new", you said on Post #232: "Hello everyone. This is my

second game

. So excited!
Catching up now."

the LAL is the reason he gives, which is very weak scum read to have on someone.

Hm. Pretty confident on two of (scrambles, acryon, CKD) as the final scummies. I think this day has revealed a lot.

Here we have the list of players that maybe scum together. Added scum buddy to the roster.

Also I interpret "Second Game" as very misleading, regardless of whether you have off-site experience. 'Second Game' implies second game

ever

not second game on this site.

I'd like you to find where AFF has said she's not newbie, Scrambles. I can't find it in her ISO.

Still pushing the weak reasoning on scrambles.

@Acryon: More inclined to believe it's scrambles & CKD rather than you.. but we'll see. At my second comment with Scrambles, that was mostly sarcasm. Don't take any comment of mine too seriously with strike tags.

I see my post has caused some conversation. Interesting. I would like to change the point of discussion to this briefly so we figure out where the confusion lies, and to also determine how people (mainly scrambles and acryon) asses joke posts for analysis purposes.

Scrambles and acryon specifically, does my joke post (here for reference) change your read(s) of me from null to scum? I would specifically like you to comment which of the below is more likely, and why:
1) I wasn't joking in that post, but quickly said I was after one person brought it up.
2) It was just a joke. Joking's something I would expect town to do.
3) It was just a joke. Joking's something I would expect scum to do.
4) It's not alignment indicative.

Here's my current analysis of all the players. Following through on GC's idea since I think it would be informative to recap all of my thoughts as well. For the record, this is ordered from scumreads to townreads in order of confidence.

CKD

I'm quite confident is scum. He is my most confident scumread and my preferred lynch for today. I, myself have posted a general case against him in 803 and also an associative case against him in 1076 and 1077

Scrambles

is currently being read as lean-scum. His deliberate misinformation regarding his skill level isn't encouraging and is quite a strong tell in itself. GC's scrambles case is solid and is definitely valid for the most part!

---

Acryon

, I'm unsure on. I currently read him as null. I dislike how he takes both sides, the bad Titus case, and also don't the AtE and flattery in posts #1344 and #1289. The final point if probably my paranoia, but I still find it a little unusual nontheless.

---

Amy

, is currently lean-town. However, I don't like her overreaction to CDB's case. The slot hasn't been very significant otherwise. I don't think this slot is newbie, as I've stated before. I've stated my thoughts on the possible reasons why one would hide that fact. I consider options a) or b) listed in that post to be more likely the the third option that she's a secret alt.

CDB

, is lean-town. His posts are fine. Although the Amy case was soon dismantled, I don't think that is scummy. It's not scummy to find out your case is incorrect or perhaps not as concrete as you thought, that's just how the game works. We're never 100% correct all the time, after all. I'm willing to write-off Chaos' play as mere town confusion given how CDB has been playing so far. I don't have much reason to suspect this slot is scum.

TobyLoby

's play hasn't stuck out very much. She was very active before she was replaced, and asking the right sort of questions, although I don't agree much with her playstyle. She's playing a very safe game, but I do think this is lean-town for now.

Farside

, is lean-town. Her posts are generally spot-on. I've no problems were her posts in this game. I disagree with GC's assesment that the fact people get NKed because they scum read farside is alignment-indicative. I don't think it is, and just think it's WiFOM.

Green Crayons

is town. I disagree with his assessment of my CKD case, but obviously that's perfectly fine. Your scrambles case is solid and definitely something worth considering lynching today, as an alternative to CKD.

Titus

, is town. Her posts are strong and I can relate to most of them.

VOTE: scrambles

Lynch all Liars applies here. Unless Scrambles is gambiting (hint: he's not) all of his posts should be telling 100% crystal-clear truth.

VOTE: CKD

Although the AtE doesn't sit well with me, I'm fairly sure acryon isn't scum.

This was the scum list where ckd is the push again over scrambles this time.

Hm. I'm reading things through.. and I'm not sure if I can see CKD as scum anymore.


UNVOTE:


I'll go back to my other suspect now. I just want to see if I'm right with this and not being completely paranoid.

Says he will go back.

With CKD being null-ish for me at the moment, my vote lies here:

VOTE: Green Crayons

and we have GC now. After a town read on him.
Also I will note the amount of buddying that riddle did to me during this wagon I pushed on GC.

VOTE: CKD

back to ckd

I can relate to GC's wavering between scrambles/CDB. I'm feeling the same way with CKD/GC so I can understand his mindset regarding that. Feeling slightly less paranoid about GC for now, so I'm switching back to my original suspicion.

Gets why GC wavers.

I've been scumreading ckd this whlle game. Have you nkt read?

Well apparently we are back to reading ckd as scum.

Finally!

Anyway, we're lynching scum today, not obvious townies. Let;s go.

VOTE: CKD

What happened to the reread and nullish feelings?

Farside isn't an option today. It's either CKD or GC from my POV.

We have the options and buddying I stated earlier.

GC is still sort of suspicious but less so now that I can relate to his Scrambles/CDB stance to me GC/CKD stance.

meh

GC

, do you really think town would go all out with the "PLEASE LYNCH ME" posts which CKD is doing? Consider that CKD goes all-out appeal to authority by saying "Very experienced players such as myself bus!" but makes the plea that his play is very scummy now and he needs to be Lynched, despite abstaining from both wagons?

more pushing on ckd.

CDB isn't particularly under much suspicion himself, so there's no need for him to pull such a gambit even if he was scum.

This is why riddle killing cbd would make sense as scum

So the the main person whom is unclear is CKD. If it's not CKD, it's 99% got to be GC.

We still have the same options.

Belisarius

: (7)

Amy Farrah Fowler, acryon

,

scrambles

, Riddleton,

TobyLoby

, ChannelDelibird, Titus
Curiouskarmadog : (1)

Belisarius

ChannelDelibird: (3) Farside22, Curiouskarmadog ,

NakedJogger

It's unlikely that both scum bussed Beli here.

--

Why did he vote for GC then? Or thing GC is scum?

I think you are scum CKD. No offense or anything, but that's how I see it. The only plausible options are you and GC.

oh shit...forgot about CDB.

CDB is town due to VCA reasons myself & Titus brought up.

-CDB is always a scum counter wagon, as said by Titus somewhere.
-It's my theory that both scum wouldn't hop on Beli, since they can easily explain their absense on the wagon as "Beli was being lolzy town".

Buddying you? lol, OK.

I've suspected GC & CKD both long before you had your same suspicions via VCA. I'm agreeing with you because I think you're town (See #2167)

We can get GC tomorrow, CKD. If you're town, he's scum.

I think GC is a scum candidate too, farside, which I've made a case on also. I just think CKD is more likely.

You should all vote CKD, trust me on this. For one, we're not leaving him to LyLo (easy mislynch) and for two, he's the most likely scum contender.

It's not worthwhile to think about who else you think is scum at this stage. Don't worry about it. Don't forget, if CKD flips town, 2 more people as well as CKD will die before LyLo so additional time spent quabbling about whether you think Farside, CDB etc is scum is wasted.

a) If you think CDB is scum, vote CKD
b) If you think GC is scum, vote CKD
c) If you think Farside is scum, vote CKD
d) If you think I am scum, vote CKD
e) If you think Titus is scum, vote CKD
f) If you think CKD is scum, vote CKD

I think GC is scummy, too, but would prefer a CKD lynch. I think I said in earlier posts if you have CKD as a scum suspect, even if not the #1 choice, we should lynch him today so he isn't a liability in LyLo.

CKD's push on GC is quite bad even though I do suspect GC myself. I've never used magic 'phrases' in my scumplay but not in my townplay. He's trying to make a case out of thin air and see if it sticks.

Farside, hammer please

I see CKD isn't getting much traction. I suppose I'll compromise.

Sigh. Farside is correct now that I see it. The interest in the CKD wagon seems artificial.

VOTE: GC

farside

, you have one scumread correct, in GC? Whom would you think is scum should GC hypothetically flip town?

CDB

, so was your lynch order in a later post ("Farside > Riddle > GC > CKD > Titus") a typo considering you think the likely final scum is in the GC vs farside interactions?

---

Anyway, I need to rethink about the game. I'm not so sure of the gamestate as I initially thought.

You should vote GC

Can I gloat about how wrong you are before the farside flip?

I don't want a deadline extension, I want a GC lynch

and I'm sure as hell not moving to farside today

I don't think farside is scum for reasons I've said before. I do think GC is scum. Let's talk about that though; why don't you see GC as likely as farside? Why is GC town from your POV?

What, Riddle, no attempt to persuade Iron that CKD is totally and absolutely the last remaining scum?

Only if you flip town

farside, you're not doing a very good at concealing your scumminess at this point.

She has nothing to conceal. She's been town this entire game.

more buddying.

Obviousky, it'll either be CKD or Farside. I'll reread this game during the night phase

Where did this come from?

I think Titus is right in that he's always the town counterwagon to the scum wagon.

Why titus killed makes sense.

I'm guessing it'll be a CKD-Riddle-Farside LyLo

Wow what a coincidence~

farside... I think it might be you. I say this after considering what CKD-scum's motive would be today, his play towards the latter part of today, knowing GC is town, points to a slightly lean-town mindset. Scum-CKD would have kept his vote on Farside

Suddenly and magically after pushes and GC is lynched he has me as scum.
Why?
Because of GC?
Nope nothing GC ever said sank in
Because others stated a scum read on me and it was a easy lynch.
That's my bet.

It's got to be farside.

The long and the short for those paying attention is that Riddle never explained his votes on scum.
He came in and voted Beli for no reason. Weak push on Scrambles and every day since Beli attacked CKD as scum for reverse bus idea..
He voted and buddyied players throughout the game. He pushed GC for no diserable reason that makes sense from his own post.
When push came to shove I am the easiest person to lynch for at the end of the game. Killing CBD is icing on the cake after CBD said I was scum.


I initially felt concerned with CKD said I was scum after not saying much about me this game and every other person pointing to me as scum. But when he didn't vote and riddle votes again with no case to present and no hammer placed I see my moment of fear was just paranoia.

[farside22]

Well at least I can now focus on one person today.

I can ask one simple question here

Riddle: why did you vote for me after claiming for days to scum read CKD?

vote: riddle

Have you not read the thread? Specifically the part where Isaid yesterday's play from CKD is lean town?

Yeah I read where it was ckd or GC for pages and pages until GC was the offical lynch then it was well farside is scum comment.

[farside22]

[farside22]

Riddle is messing around.
Gg everyone.
I had fun playing scum this game

[farside22]

I have a few notes in my head for those interested.

Riddle: stop defending players you town read. This is the one thing that helps scum overall
GC: I really enjoyed playing with you the most. I hope we play again
CKD: get back to playing mafia. There are many things you missed this game.
Scramble: why, why did you have to bus so fast and hard.
Me: for those wondering I have caught scum replacing out when they recieved there role pm and confirmed before. In fact when I attacked the spot I didn't notice it was my scum buddy.

[farside22]

what did I miss? still defend my Skelda case.

No.
I can't even say that.
When I think someone is scum I use actions more then Nk to determine scum.
Your focus on the Nk was a non issue.
We chose dry because he read as a pr. Same with our night 2 kill.
Open games getting ride of a pr helps out scum.

[farside22]

I got to say though, I really enjoyed playing with you all! Maybe we can play again sometime.

Farside played well to last this long, regardless.

Thanks riddle!

I should have voted her a couple of days ago, but between her and GC, I was leaning GC. Not enough to vote him, but enough not to vote farside.

<3

[farside22]

I have a few notes in my head for those interested.

Riddle: stop defending players you town read. This is the one thing that helps scum overall
GC: I really enjoyed playing with you the most. I hope we play again
CKD: get back to playing mafia. There are many things you missed this game.
Scramble: why, why did you have to bus so fast and hard.
Me: for those wondering I have caught scum replacing out when they recieved there role pm and confirmed before. In fact when I attacked the spot I didn't notice it was my scum buddy.

I knew, knew,

knew

that, generally, you are much more awesome when handling assholes (me), so your back and forth with me this game really struck me funny.

(Also, I do hope all your IRL stuff is sorted out.)

GG everyone.

@CKD:

Like I said, I knew for a fact that I was town.

Meh. I've been an emotional wreck when dealing with assholes lately.
But my RL stuff has gotten better. It's a part time job now, but I really do enjoy the job. I'm hoping for more hours after the holidays.
The owner gave me a really nice Christmas present already.

As for Farside, Beli attacked them had day 1 for going after the scrambles slot.

Beli acted super righteous in pursuing farside, as if his cause against farside was handed down from above.

Totally bus material.

That situation would, of course, be Beli-scum defending Blonde/scrambles-scum by attacking farside-scum who was attacking Blonde/scrambles-scum.


It's scum v. scum v. scum. Ballsy.

It almost worked!

We be crazy scum players.

GC: just so you know, I have the upmost respect for your thought process. I'm sorry I had to come back at you in bitch form. It was really fun to mess with you on some of your points.

<3

This was a hard game, if my constant self doubt didn't underscore that fact.

I go through that a lot too. My stubbornness typically outways my doubt.

i am actually shocked that I made it to lylo...my shitty ass gut instinct doomed me early on.

guess farside thought Riddle was going to stick to his guns and vote me at LYLO.

I was hoping cbd would be wifom. Give pause and I felt sure cbd would never change his views on me.