Open 606: Near-Vanilla 40k TOWN WINS

[duppin]

Alright this guy is most likely mafia. Please just confess.

VOTE: Vedith

[duppin]

I forced no one. I asked him to confess. I take it you have something to confess as well?

[duppin]

I forced no one. I asked him to confess. I take it you have something to confess as well?

yes, im a vt

I see. Interesting. I would not be surprised if Vedith killed you first.

[duppin]

Dying is not very enjoyable though.

[duppin]

Likewise.

Can't say I am a fan of your vote though.

[duppin]

That is an interesting reaction.

[duppin]

My initial vote was RVS, but I actually don't mind keeping it here for now.

@Yimmy - I have no idea what you are trying to ask me, so I'm going to assume that you didn't understand my vote.
It was an RVS vote, I just pointed out that I'm not sure how someone who hadn't posted received 3 votes so easily.

He is asking you if you think pushing us out of RVS (by bandwagoning on The Enigma) is scummy.

[duppin]

Um, I am not entirely sure you understand.

Do you think the people bandwagoning on The Enigma are scummy for pushing us out of RVS?

[duppin]

Yes The Enigma's vote was suspicious. First of all the emotionless read makes no sense. Considering he was the leading train, it makes his vote (+weak reason) fairly interesting.

I am not sold on Vedith being town just yet though. His reaction in 30 is super weird.
His logic seems flawed to me as well. If he does not like RVS, why would he find people who try to push us out of it suspicious?

I do however want to note that I do not personally think pushing us out of RVS is a town tell. I believe it is null.

[duppin]

I see. Interesting. I would not be surprised if Vedith killed you first.

I'm not a fan of you calling me Mafia after 1 post.
You shouldn't try and act like you know who I would go for if I were Mafia too (Even though I'm not).
Why so defensive over my vote on RandomMidget? Do you have something confess buddy?

Do you not think this is a very interesting reaction to RVS?

I was obviously fluffing when I told ika that Vedith would kill him.
I was not defensive over his vote on RandomMidget.

I only said that I'm no good with RVS, I'm not sure where you got this from? Plus I never said I find him suspicious. .. well any more than the rest if you. Can you explain this as I think you are trying to twist my words here
I also can't see how Random was trying to push out of RVS? It doesn't come across as it anyway given the "that being said" part.

1. I assumed by you saying you are not good with RVS, you implied you are not a fan of RVS.

2. When people bandwagon a person, they force us out of RVS.

Please note that I was merely explaning Yimmy's question to you. (He wanted to know whether you found people who pushed town out of RVS were scummy or not).

Then when I questioned you, I got the impression you do not want us to be in RVS (seeing as you claimed you are not good with it). So you calling the people getting us out of it was a bit strange to me (your theory about the 3rd vote being scum implies you believe it).

[duppin]

@Yimmy

It does not necessarily mean anything.
But it could've been an attempt to deflect attention away from himself.
He really tried to justify his vote on me (and his reason was meh), which seems a bit desperate to me.

[duppin]

Yes I still very much believe it is possible that The Enigma was scum, so lynching him is not a terrible idea.

[duppin]

@juckter - Are you even in the game?

Let's find out.

UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: juckter

[duppin]

No need to prod me (I mean you haven't done it yet and you won't need to).

Still waiting for the two other slots to be replaced though, because I think both of them are fairly suspicious.

[duppin]

Hm to be honest I don't mind my current vote.

Still waiting for The Enigma to get replaced though.

[duppin]

Firebringer, does that mean you agree with his list? Very interesting.

Oh and to be honest I don't care about Constantine's list. I am going to unvote someone I find suspicious, just because he wants to defend them.
I don't mind his town reads, but the "would fight their lynch" is a terrible list to give out, because instead of giving actual reads, he is trying to buddy with people not even getting pressured, which is fairly suspicious.
He is also being careful enough not to hard align himself with them, which means he can do a 180 on them tomorrow.
Giving out a vague list like that is pretty questionable. I'd rather see you explain your reads on them.

But oh well, his scum list is me, Vedith and ASP. (I assume).
First of all, there is no way be and Vedith are scumbuddies. Constantine also seems to believe ASP is the most towny of us.
So that most likely means he believe there is maximum 1 scum in his list (and most likely between me and Vedith). It also means he is protecting at least 2 scum.

With that said, I do however want to state that I do not find Constantine super scummy, because I have liked most of what he said so far, but I dislike this play very much and find it fairly suspicious.
So he could've been trying to deflect. ASP was the leading train, yet he still called out ASP, but he also called him the most towny of us.
Perhaps it was a busplay, perhaps nothing. In either case, this is nothing I want to pursue today, but it might be worth looking into later.

Hm to be honest I don't mind my current vote.

Still waiting for The Enigma to get replaced though.

So what is it about my slot that you dislike?

I wasn't too fond of the slot before you got replaced, and I really disliked your entrance. I do not see a reason for you to bring 40 up.
Then you continued discussing it for no reason at all. I am not entirely sure whether you were trying to pressure ASP or not, but he was the leading train which is a bit interesting because it is the only thing you brought up.

I do not understand how anyone can town read you to be honest but meh.

My vote is most likely going to end on The Enigma's slot though. I still think he was suspicious, but he still hasn't been replaced which is a shame.

[duppin]

Sorry for the typo. I meant, I am

not

going to unvote.

[duppin]

Why do you think Vampirate is town?

[duppin]

@Duppin

I don't actually believe I called vampirate town in that post. He is town, but only because I am not scum reading him. You MS folks call that a null read, psshh

@Vedith

I don't think a policy lynch today is silly reasoning, especially when the people who are active are putting a lot of effort into scum hunting. Even the people I am reading as scum have done a lot of scum hunting.

I understand that. You just stated you'd defend him, which is very interesting. Why do you want to defend your null reads? (I mean defending them if you think they are towny or that the push is scummy makes sense) And why do you feel the need to tell us? I really dislike you buddying so much. Next time please consider just pushing on your scumreads instead of this.

I'd also like to know why you scum read me.

[duppin]

@Vampirate,

I already explained why I did not like your entrance (you even commented on it). Your reasoning for doing so does not change much. I disliked it and thought the read was weak.

I did not like the slot simply because he did nothing. This is not a scum tell at all, because the most likely conclusion is that he simply did not have time. But it caught my attention and I noted it down fairly early in the game because I was waiting for content from him. Then you replaced and I thought your entrance was very questionable, so obviously I do not like your slot.

[duppin]

I don't like this, scum are imo more likely 'try' to appear active. If you are scum reading me for whatever reason your vote 'should' stick on me unless someone does something you dislike that takes the crown in your head as scummier.

No, he was my top scum earlier. Unfortunately he hasn't been replaced yet, which means I have no reason to pressure him. I think he is more likely to be scum than you, but his lynch will give us less information. I will also not gain nothing by pressuring him right now.

[duppin]

I'd also like to know why you scum read me.

You strongly resemble the scum meta of a couple other people. In other words, it is a gut thing!

Elaborate please.

[duppin]

I'd also like to know why you scum read me.

You strongly resemble the scum meta of a couple other people. In other words, it is a gut thing!

Elaborate please.

I will try my best your highness

Past Scum Metas = Duppin Meta = Suspicious = Scum?

Yes but I want to know what this meta is.

[duppin]

@duppin: Your take in all this my and enigma's slot aside?

To be completely honest, I find this question very wierd. I am very curious as to why you'd call me out on this?

I don't care about Titus vs Constantine, it does not change anything for me at the moment. Already gave my opinion on Constantine, and I don't find Titus scummy.

I still think you and Enigma's slot are the most interesting targets today.

[duppin]

@duppin: Your take in all this my and enigma's slot aside?

To be completely honest, I find this question very wierd. I am very curious as to why you'd call me out on this?

I don't care about Titus vs Constantine, it does not change anything for me at the moment. Already gave my opinion on Constantine, and I don't find Titus scummy.

I still think you and Enigma's slot are the most interesting targets today.

Quite simply you're giving me the in the background vibe so I decided to bring you out in the light.

It was a silly question. I can't tell whether you are trying to pretend you are scum hunting or you just sincerely believe it was a good way to "bring me out in the light".

[duppin]

me, JellyRolls, Hermit, TheWorst, vampirate, vedith have all expressed suspiscion of ASP in some way

Do you think all of them are town?

[duppin]

more or less
I might be wrong about 1 of my reads, but I highly doubt it atm

While I do understand your point, I don't really agree with you. I'd also like to point out you could probably argue the same thing about Vedith's train.

Anyway, if you believe ASP is scum please reconsider your town reads.

JellyRolls: Voted early on ASP and kept his vote there. If ASP flips scum, he is most likely town.
Hermit: Voted on him earlier and voted on him again after your previous post. A bit weird, but I'd have him as leaning town if ASP flips scum.
Vedith: Never voted on him even though Vedith was the leading train himself. I somehow doubt both of them are scum, so lean town.
TheWorst: Never voted on ASP and still has his vote on TheEnigma. If ASP flips scum, he is very suspicious.
Vampirate: Never voted on ASP, instead he voted on the most obvious alternative (Vedith). Fairly suspicious as well.

It is very easy to call a teammate suspicious while not actually voting on him. If ASP is scum, this is not a case of town spreading out but scum deflecting. They can easily return to the ASP train if they fail to push a mislynch on someone else, since they called him suspicious and then try to gain town cred.

If ASP is scum, I think your town reads are flawed and I believe the teammate(s) are to be found among the town reads you just gave.

I am tempted to join the ASP train currently, because I find the Vedith train more suspicious (I think Vampirate is fairly scummy).
If ASP flips scum, I am going after TheWorst and possibly Vampirate tomorrow, so please reconsider your read on them.

If he flips town, I am most likely going to focus on TheEnigma's slot (assuming he get's replaced).

[duppin]

Sorry guys.

So I thought Vedith was town day 1, and while he is more of a null read now I am still not currently feeling a lynch on him. TheWorst is a bit more interesting, but I don't find him particularly scummy.
I'd rather pursue my day 1 read to be honest.

VOTE: Vampirate

Vampirate, what do you think about TheWorst and Yimmy?

I still do not like The Enigma's slot, but he finally got replaced, so not going to vote on that slot for now.

[duppin]

@Randomidget, why don't you just explain it now?

[duppin]

I am just waiting for randomidget to show up.

[duppin]

Scum is probably one of the many inactive lurking players plaguing this game, like Duppin, Random, and Ika. One of these slots should be policy lynched, if not replaced.

Mala is also probably scum. Voting me is stupid as hell. I have already claimed a power role and this is a known set-up.

Interesting. What do you think about TheWorst?

[duppin]

Could be a VT trying to soak a NK, could be a WIFOM play, could be scum, who knows. Doesn't matter, no reason to discuss it any further right now to be honest. But please answer my question Constantine.

[duppin]

I'm actually less sure of my duppin scumread. While ISO ing him I came across a post where he talked about if ASP was scum, which I don't think it makes swnse for scum to write. The scummy bits will come later, but for now duppin is null-scum.
I may switch to yimmy to hurry the phase up.

So... are you actually going to explain your scum read on me?

[duppin]

I'd gladly join that train, but I'd really like to hear his scum read on me.

[duppin]

Um randomidget, not gonna lie, that was a very weak scum read. I'm pretty sure you just had to make something up and that is why I questioned you, because you have said nothing all game yet sheeped a vote on me for no reason, so I assumed you didn't actually have a case on me. (and you claimed you did). It took you ages to explain it, you then claimed you'd ISO me after I asked you, which meant you didn't actually have anything on me so. It's a bit suspicious.

By the way the reason I voted on Vedith wasn't because he was my top scum, I thought TheEnigma was scum, so I provided an alternative train simply to see who'd join it. (You did). Not that interested in TheEnigma's slot right now though, so it doesn't matter that much. If randomidget flips scum, I will be suspicious of Malakittens though.

So anyway
UNVOTE: Vampirate
VOTE: Randomidget


I don't mind a Vampirate lynch either, but this is more interesting.

[duppin]

Sorry for the weird post, on my phone.

[duppin]

Going to sleep in a moment, just wanted to say that I am not too fond of people instantly joining my train. Still very interested in random though.

UNVOTE: randomidget

Consider my vote on him. Not interested in a quick hammer though.

[duppin]

I know the reasoning is pretty weak, but it's the best I've got on anyone. I can't scumhunt for shit at the start of a game. I guess a lot of it was just you pinging me, but that was more stuff I picked up on your ISO that I felt was scummy.

Not true. I pinged you out after you voted on me and claimed I was scummy, so that could not have been your initial reason for voting me.
I'm finding it very difficult to town read you at the moment. I admit it was rather strange how people were so quick to join the train, but it's hard to blame them.

Do you have any other reads?

[duppin]

I know the reasoning is pretty weak, but it's the best I've got on anyone. I can't scumhunt for shit at the start of a game. I guess a lot of it was just you pinging me, but that was more stuff I picked up on your ISO that I felt was scummy.

Not true. I pinged you out after you voted on me and claimed I was scummy, so that could not have been your initial reason for voting me.
I'm finding it very difficult to town read you at the moment. I admit it was rather strange how people were so quick to join the train, but it's hard to blame them.

Do you have any other reads?

We have different definitions of pinging. I meant it as you feeling scummy without doing anything I directly thought of as scummy at the time.
As for other reads, I null read people screwing around (fire, Constantine, ika)
Vedith is null-town for me, very similar to his town game.
Yimmy null-scum, the initial wagonning was poor but their refusal to do anything doesn't seem town to me.
TheWorst - null-scum but I can't remember why.
Vampirate is null, will iso them but don't see the hate.
Anxiety is obv town.
I like huntress' catch up, town.

So why did you claim you had a case on me and would give it to us later when you clearly didn't?

[duppin]

Also noticed that Duppin pretty much said the same thing I said of Vedith.

Um, please elaborate. What post are you talking about?

[duppin]

You looking mighty hypocritical dude.

To be fair, so are you. Last day ended before I could bring it up, but:

I don't get how you see me as a scum read and also Vampirate. I am pushing heavily on Vampirate, and I am about the only one to push him.
You think I am scum bussing teammate with nobody else supporting it?

I just don't get your read on me, and even Vampirate to a lesser extent.

Same way you are scum reading me and Vampirate. I have been scum reading him throughout the whole game and had my vote on him multiple times. Why'd you call out someone else for doing the exact same thing as you?
Anyway I don't think this is a scum tell, just found it rather interesting.

VOTE: Vampirate
Yeah, that post seemed prepared for day start Vamp.

And you think if I was scum I'd wanted to start a controversial read at the very start of the Day phase because....?

Because you were most likely going to be the train today based on yesterday.

TheWorst vote yesterday was very suspicious. No idea why'd you vote on random, when a train on him was obviously not going to go anywhere at that point.
I'd rather push on Vampirate for now though.

VOTE: Vampirate

[duppin]

Let's be honest, you were going to get a lot of attention today no matter what. You trying so hard to push the "why would I do that if I was scum" doesn't really help.

I do not mind your Hermit read though and people need to realise that there is a lot of WIFOM surrounding him so he should probably claim before lylo if he isn't killed.

[duppin]

@TheWorst

You are indeed correct, my apologies.

[duppin]

Hermit, you have to claim. If you honestly don't know why, I would gladly explain.

[duppin]

Sorry work is killing me, going to catch up tomorrow.

[duppin]

@ Duppin: Why no vote? I understand why you unvoted earlier, but not why you didn't vote again later.

To be completely honest I didn't realise we were that close to the deadline when I unvoted, so never got back to voting.

@Duppin

Yes, someone please explain to me why I

need

to claim.

As long as I am not at L-1, I see no reason for me to out which of the two known power roles I am.

Because if you do not, this game could end up being decided by WIFOM if scum does not kill you.

A PR can not counter claim you because you are not claiming a role. That means:

A) You are scum. If we end up with at least one TPR in lylo, you can counter claim them and it's up to town figure out whether you were lying or not.

B) You are a TPR. Scum leaves you alive and counter claims you in lylo.

C) You are a VT. Scum does not seem interested in killing in, which means it is very dangerous to bring you to lylo because if both of the TPR's are killed, you are most likely going to get lynched.
Or if both of the TPR's are still alive and you abstain your claim, you look very suspicious.

None of this is good for town.

If you are a VT, I approve of your play but if scum aren't interested in killing you, you have to claim before lylo.
If you are TPR, you have to claim before lylo as well.

I am not asking you to claim today, but until you hard claim I do not feel like giving you immunity, so if I find you scummy I will vote on you.
That is not relevant right now though.

UNVOTE: Vampirate

I'll unvote for now. Still find you very suspicious though and my vote will most likely end on you, but I'd like to hear from you. I do not mind most of your reads, but I'd like you to explain your scumread on The Worst.

[duppin]

The lynch is obviously going to be between random and Vampirate. I am not entirely sure who I'd rather lynch to be honest though.

Vampirate has bothered me all game, but random's push on me yesterday his overall play just does not make sense.

[duppin]

@Huntress,

I don't really know what to think of him. His interactions today has been a little weird, but that is not unusual for him.
But I will say this: if Vampirate flips scum, I am almost positive Firebringer is aligned with him.

[duppin]

Okay almost positive is pushing it, but Firebringer likes to call out his scumbuddies (which he did), yet he was pretty quick to 'believe' Vampirate and remove his vote. When Vampirate brought up the fact that we should not go for another no lynch (post #855), Firebringer joined Vampirate's vote on randomidget, even though Vampirate was the leading train.

Firebringer stated that he did not like the randomidget train, yet he chose to vote on him instead of the top train because he did not want a no lynch. That's very questionable.

[duppin]

God I need to sleep.

I meant that Firebringer called Vampirate out and voted on him earlier, which he likes to do as scum (at least that is the impression I got from his scum game on this site), so if Vampirate flips scum it matches up.

[duppin]

God I need to sleep.

I meant that Firebringer called Vampirate out and voted on him earlier, which he likes to do as scum (at least that is the impression I got from his scum game on this site), so if Vampirate flips scum it matches up.

Can you point to one game where this is actually true of me?

I don't even remember playing one game with you where I was scum.

We've never played a game where you were scum, no, but I checked your scum games to get a better read on you. You've voted on you partner(s) in all of your games as scum. It's mainly a weak character read on you, but based on your weird vote choice (choosing randomidget over Vampirate does not make a lot of sense based on what you've said), I could see you be with Vampirate.
I am currently not very interested in you though.

[duppin]

VOTE: Vampirate

Will switch to randomidget if this is not going to happen, but at the moment I find Vampirate more suspicious.

[duppin]

I actually like Vampirate's reads. Is it too late to change vote? Seems like ika is here now as well and if 4nx is still around I guess it is possible.

[duppin]

4nx you still here?

[duppin]

Didn't realise he got hammered, my bad.

@TheWorst, I disagree, I think the vote records are fairly useless, especially if Vampirate flips town.

I can get behind Vampirate's reads though.

[duppin]

That is not what I said. What I said is you can't read into the votes on his wagon, simply based on how his train was formed. Sure, there might be one or more scum on his train, but we are not going to go for someone simply for voting on him when we have more to go on than that.

[duppin]

Constantine should claim today.

Will be back later today.

[duppin]

If you won't claim I am going to vote on you Hermit, simple as that. I honestly could not care less if you think that is scummy. If you are town, you need to realise you have to claim.

[duppin]

Oh and Hermit for what it is worth, I actually do believe you are town and I do like your vote, but you have to claim, simple as that.

[duppin]

Oh god, I can't be bothered with this.

Hermit, if you are town, you claim now. If not, I will lynch you and if you flip town you can only blame yourself.

You HAVE to claim today, stop being so stubborn.
We haven't lost a TPR yet, so by claiming we will have at least one confirmed town in lylo (since the other tpr can protect you this night).

If you are lying, the real TPR will counterclaim you today and we will have a confirmed town in lylo.

If you do not claim, we may end up mislynching someone random, and end up with people counterclaiming tomorrow in lylo, which is a terrible situation.
In no freaking way is it better town if you do not claim today, and if you fail to realise that I do not know what to say.
This actually makes me believe that you may not be town.

If you are truly town and you won't claim, I am going to blame you if town loses this game. I don't understand why we are even having this discussion.
You not claiming only benefits scum, and you trying to imply it doesn't is very questionable.

But you and random may explain why my reaction feels off, because as far as I am concerned this seems more like scum trying to push it on me.

So anyway Hermit, if you are town: claim or lose the game for town.

[duppin]

Sorry for the typos, on my phone.

[duppin]

No it does not. But you are gambling, which does not seem very towny to me. The safe and correct play is for you to claim, since it leaves us in a way better position tomorrow. Why would scum try to get you to claim? Please give me a proper reason. Fact is, you can't. You are trying to tell people that scum would try to get a claim from you, which is bullshit. They have no freaking reason to, as they won't have to counterclaim you until lylo.

But whatever, suit yourself.

VOTE: Hermit

Claim and I'll gladly move my vote.

[duppin]

So I think the team is randomidget and possibly Hermit. Last one could be anyone for all I care.

[duppin]

Me neither.

But oh well, let's be honest randomidget, I sincerely doubt the remaining town are that dumb.

It's a shame really, I was actually leaning towards Hermit being town, but unfortunately it seems like he has pretty much confirmed himself as scum today.
There is a slight possibility he is town, so if that's the case he should just claim so we can get on with it. I doubt that is the case though. His terrible logic and him refusing to claim is so anti town I honestly can't see him being town any longer.

Hermit you have no arguments at all. You can't give a single reason as to why it would be better for you not to claim than it would be for you to claim.

"Scum is rolefishing", are you actually for real? You already claimed a TPR, why the hell would scum want to know exactly which tpr you are at this point? Fact is, they would not care.
Scum would much rather prefer you did not claim today, so they can counter claim you in lylo. For some reason you won't admit that this is the case, and instead you are trying to force a crappy OMGUS vote.

Let's be honest Hermit, you don't even have a case on me. You have nothing at all. The only thing you have on me is me trying to get a roleclaim from you, but you can't even explain how that is scummy, and do you know why? Because it is not. The pro town play is for you to claim. I have explained to you exactly why this is the better and safer play, but you are so stubborn that I simply can't believe you are town.

I am also pretty convinced that randomidget is scum as well. The way you seconded his "duppin's post feels off" read straightaway seemed like a silly excuse for you to deflect to me. Why did my reaction feel off?

I haven't played a good game, but if Hermit is truly town he has played a terrible game. I doubt that is the case though. We push him for a claim, if he claims, we wait and see if he gets counterclaimed, if not he is pretty much confirmed, but if he does we lynch him. If he does not claim, just lynch him and most likely randomidget tomorrow.

I have nothing more to add, game seems pretty simple at the moment. The last spot is a mystery to me at the moment, but we will most likely find out today.

[duppin]

I already voted on him.

[duppin]

"Why would I do that as scum" isn't worth much. But if you wish to go that way, why would I draw attention to myself tunneling on a tpr claim?

[duppin]

VOTE: duppin
Already had suspicions, tbh I trust hermit more.

I mean theres on thing to trust a player and another to believe they are actually figuring the game out.

I trust hermit is town right now.
I don't trust his scum hunting on this game.

What changed?

Anyway Firebringer, what do you think about Hermit not claiming?

[duppin]

Oh and I don't really know about this game. Hermit if you are town, just freaking claim already and stop being so anti town.

Firebringer is a scum read of mine, so you voting on him today strenghted my town read on you, but your posts today have been terrible so I had to reconsider.
You still haven't given a single reason as to why it would be better for you not to claim today, because there is not any. It's a lost cause and it should be obvious to town that you need to claim.

At the moment two of my scum reads are 'interested' in lynching me, but can't really give a proper reason nor do they want to talk about the issue we have at hand (you claiming). They've pretty much ignored it.
So at the moment the game seems so simple to me (Hermit, Firebringer and randomidget).

Hermit is the biggest questionmark, as I can't tell whether he is just being stubborn or he is actually scum. Randomidget is my top scum at the moment.
So Hermit if you are town, just claim already.

[duppin]

Not going to happen unless Hermit claims.

[duppin]

But you realise it is almost impossible to pressure anyone at the moment since me (and ika) are tunneling so hard.

[duppin]

I apologise for that obviously, I'm just pretty convinced that I've pretty much ruined the day until he claims as you obviously won't be able to convince me to move my vote.

[duppin]

Very well. I don't really have anything else to add anyway, you guys already know what I want to do.

[duppin]

"Don't want to bother" = Can't come up with anything?

I mean come on, please give me something to work with. This is what you've done today:
You've ignored all of my arguments (or at least failed to addres them)
You refuse to explain why you think not claiming is better than claiming.
You claimed you wanted to vote on me because my reaction "felt off", yet when I asked you to elaborate, you never responded.
You claimed I was rolefishing, which I think is a terrible read, since you already claimed a tpr, so I fail to see why scum would be interested in learning which role you are (since it's an open game), as they would not be able to counterclaim you in lylo and you would pretty much be confirmed now + tomorrow since protective tpr's.

I listed you, Firebringer and randomidget as my scum. I do however not believe the game is that simple, so there is most likely one townie between the three of you. The town could be you, but then you need to work with me. I am not moving my vote from you until you claim, and you knew this was coming since the day you claimed. I told you that you would have to claim before lylo. I can't find a single reason for not claiming today, and you can't provide one either (or well you refuse to). You are pushing a very very weak read on me (the whole rolefishing) together with randomidget, my top scum.
When I list my scumreads, you instantly change your vote to one of them and try to get me to vote on him, which I think is very interesting. There is no way I am going to vote with you at the moment, unless you claim or give a damn good reason for not wanting to.
Oh and if you are a VT trying to soak a NK, I do admire that but you should realise that you have to claim now.

By claiming:
+ Confirmed town in potential lylo. (since the other role can protect you, you are guaranteed to survive at least one night)
+ If we lynch scum today, we still have a confirmed town tomorrow. (not in lylo then though)
+ If you get counterclaimed, we have a confirmed scum (either you or the counterclaim)

Not claiming:
- Scum can counterclaim you in lylo, and I doubt you'd win that (depends on who the counterclaim is, but I'd most likely lynch you)
- If you are a VT, you won't soak a NK since scum has no reason to kill you.

You already claimed a tpr, so claiming your exact role won't change much, unless you do not wish to hardclaim, which is what I find very questionable.

Anyway, so if we mislynch today, we are in lylo tomorrow, unless tpr gets a save.
If you are town, we are most likely going to lose in lylo since you are probably going to get mislynched then. The easy way to avoid this, is simply by claiming. I see no cons to claiming, I asked you to provide one but you've failed to do so. (Can't be bothered? How about working with me instead if you are town?)

My vote stays on you for now.

[duppin]

Oh and once again you claim that the role fishing is scum slip, so how about you actually explain why that read? (In this particular case obviously, I do agree that it is normally scummy)

[duppin]

Alright, just lynch Hermit. No way you are town.

[duppin]

Can you (or anyone) give me a reason for Hermit to not claim? I may be blind or missing something, but I'm pretty sure I've covered it.
I've asked Hermit multiple times to give me a reason, but he refuses to work with me. Both you and Firebringer call Hermit town, which is a read I shared until today. I just can't see his play coming from a town perspective, so I'd really like someone to explain to me why'd it be better not to claim because I don't see it.

[duppin]

Oh god Hermit. I am 100% sure you are wrong. How can you not realise that if you are town scum would want to get you to lylo since you are the easiest mislynch in the entire world. Your logic doesn't even make sense.

[duppin]

That's the problem Hermit, you think people are going to believe you tomorrow if you get counterclaimed, which is not true.

[duppin]

By claiming today, you are going to be confirmed town tomorrow since we have two town protective roles the other one can save you. How is that not a better option?

[duppin]

What is the point of that? You want to make sure no one can counter claim you?

Also what do you think about randomidget?

[duppin]

And no, I do not mean we should put him to L-1 instead of Huntress, but he is my top scum and he is buddying with you. I'd like to know what you think of him.

[duppin]

Look Hermit, I honestly have no idea what to think of you.

I am an impossible lynch Firebringer.
Having two scumbuddies may give you more confidence, but you will need more than yourself and duppin/ika.

Seriously though, stop saying incredibly scummy shit. I do not know your meta, and the only reason I keep preventing myself from hard tunnelling you was because TheWorst defended your meta as being town. If it were not for that, I would of never shut up about lynching you.

On the last page you thought me, ika and Firebringer were scum. Earlier today you thought TheWorst was.
Now when 4nx starts to push on Huntress, you go for her instead and want to force the rest of us to go for her by stating you'll claim. Seems more like you are trying to

What about randomidget and Mala?

4nx, I agree with most of your reads, but I find it so difficult to town read Hermit at the moment and I am personally not going to vote with him until he claims.

[duppin]

Eh sorry, seems like I accidently deleted something.

What I meant to write was: Seems more like you are trying to push a mislynch by going for one of 4nx scum reads, since he is pretty much town read by everyone at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, Huntress could be scum but I simply don't trust you at the moment, so this seems very suspicious to me.

[duppin]

Okay I didn't like that reaction, but Hermit just claim already please.

[duppin]

I see. Happy birthday by the way!

[duppin]

Hermit, would you honestly rather get lynched than claim?

[duppin]

It has nothing to do with feeling threatened, it has to do with you not realising how damaging this is. I am town, so if we get to lylo how are you ever going to convince me not to lynch you if you get counterclaimed?

[duppin]

Thank you Hermit.

UNVOTE: Hermit

I'd prefer a randomidget lynch today to be completely honest.

[duppin]

We lynch a scum?

VOTE: Randomidget

[duppin]

NOW you guys want to lynch Random?

Where was this enthusiasm before? When you guys tried to lynch Vampirate?

To be honest, this post looks pretty bad.

[duppin]

But at the moment I am more interested in you, Huntress. Will post something later.

[duppin]

TheWorst I hope you realise I am pretty much confirmed town at this stage, so you have to be very desperate to call me out.

[duppin]

There is no way I am aligned with randomidget.

[duppin]

Honestly, it most likely has to do with your case being very weak. There is no way me and random are aligned. I agree that in mafia everything is possible, but this is just so unlikely, so I am very surprised to see you trying to pursue this today. I also do not know why you'd not bring this up earlier, since you were apparently scum reading randomidget, so why were you not looking for associative tells?

There is no way we would've played it this way if we were scum partners, simple as that.

By the way, why do you feel my reaction to randomidget's push on me felt fake?

You calling me out for having a vote on Hermit yesterday when calling random scum makes no sense at all. You obviously knew why my vote was on Hermit, because I wanted a claim and as soon as that was going to happen I'd move it to randomidget. This has nothing to do with me being in "busrange" or anything else, but you trying to miscredit me has been noted.

Anyway, I believe there is at least one scum between Huntress and TheWorst. Will wait for Huntress to catch up.

[duppin]

Mala the thing is, you don't have a case on me. You are basically just trying to make a case of me being partnered with randomidget, which is very unlikely.
I agree it is a possibility, but it is veeeeeeery unlikely, and I do not understand why'd you even pursue this today.

I honestly do not care whether you thought my vote on Hermit was bad or not, I disagree and I believe he had to claim no matter what and I explained why. You obviously do not think this is a scum tell, because then you would've said it yesterday, so why are you even trying to push on it now? Your push on me is just so weird.

By the way I always repeat myself as town, look my games up if you truly believe that is a scum tell. If you won't look up, that's fine, but you'll have to come up with something better. This is your case: Me and randomidget have voting on each other, trying to lynch each other the day before lylo, calling each other out when we had no reason to at all to try and distance ourselves? Um, yes sure, it is possible, but how likely do you truly believe that is? I think your logic is very weak and you can easily make a case of someone else being aligned with randomidget, and dare I say, you could probably make a much better case with pretty much everyone. This feels so forced. I have a hard time seeing town trying to push this today (I may be biased since I know I am town), but it seems like a really weird thing to do, because to me it seems obvious there is one mafia between TheWorst and Huntress and I'd never go for anyone but them today.

[duppin]

Yeah that was on my phone so I apologise for the typos. Anyway, if you are going to claim on the third vote, go ahead.

VOTE: TheWorst

[duppin]

UNVOTE: TheWorst
VOTE: Huntress

This is what I am doing for now. I somehow doubt the team is Mala+ika based on their interactions yesterday.

[duppin]

Wait actually consider my vote to be on Huntress, but I'll need to go over this again tomorrow since I might be missing something.
UNVOTE: Huntress

[duppin]

Sorry guys, had a busy weekend. Will post something later or tomorow.

[duppin]

Huntress, my initial read on Vedith was lean scum. Then another train began to form on TheEnigma's slot and I found him more suspicious,
so I chose to keep my vote on Vedith to see if anyone would join it (deflecting, if TheEnigma flipped scum. Was expecting him to get lynched).
TheEnigma was by far my favourite lynch for day 1, but unfortunately he got replaced which ruined my reads a bit. I thought Mala's entrance was decent, so decided to pursue something else for a while. (Vampirate and randomidget)

Mala I'm not sure you understand my point. The thing is that you can basically apply the scum read on me to everyone in the game.
Scumreading me because I "could've been distancing myself", while it is indeed true, it is not really a scum read.
I want to point out that you've been townreading me all game long, so should be fairly obvious you think my overall play has been town. That is very interesting.

You have given a couple of specific reasons for scum reading me, but these are very forced. You are trying very hard to make a team of me and randomidget, when it is very unlikely and it is way more likely to be someone else.
I think it is correct to consider me a possible scum, but in no way should I be the top lynch today and I think people trying to push on it (especially people following your read, I am almost certain none of them would've even went for me unless you tried to point it out) is very interesting.

Hermit and TheWorst are confirmed town.
I believe 4nx is town, but he could be scum, but I do not believe that is the case.
That means that mafia is between Huntress, ika and Mala.

My targets for today were Huntress, ika and TheWorst (sorry). I actually did not want to go for Mala today, because of her vote yesterday.
What I also find interesting Mala, is that you were scumreading ika yesterday and you called each other out several times.
Yet today you choose to go for me and try to reason with him and try to get him to vote on me. Why the sudden change?
You had an actual reason for scumreading him, but then you went all tunnel mode on me because I called my self confirmed town and now all of your reads are based around you trying to tie me with randomidget.
I'm honestly not entirely sure whether I think that is scummy or not, but I'm still not that very interested in lynching you today.

At the moment I'd lynch between Huntress and ika. I found ika's vote on me fairly interesting, especially given ika's and Mala's interactions yesterday.

Mala, honestly just iso randomidget and Huntress if you do not see why Huntress could be scum.

They never engaged and town read each other for pretty weak reasons.
When Huntress replaced in, she kept focusing on Firebringer (now confirmed town), yet when the randomidget train first began, she voiced her concern about the train and then joined the Vampirate train (trying to even the two trains).
She said she did not like how the wagon sprang up so quickly after she put a second vote on Firebringer.

The people who were on the randomidget train were: Vedith, Anxiety, Hermit and TheWorst.
Knowing what we know now, we know that it was not a scum push on randomidget. I voiced my concern about the people instantly joining my train as well, but the difference was, that I didn't actively try to deflect onto someone else and I actually started the train on a now confirmed scum.
The only reason he really got any attention, was because I called him out. My reason for voting him was solid, thus people joined my train. The only reason I unvoted was because people were so quick to join my train.
If we were scum partners I'd never freaking bus and try to bury him for no apparent reason (well actually he tried to lynch me first).

Anyway, considering Mala and Huntress have both been townreading me pretty much all game, I think this is rather interesting.
Would prefer to lynch in this order: Huntress > ika > Mala, but up to you guys.

[duppin]

So, whats up?

[duppin]

@Huntress,

I mean sure, 4nx put the first vote on him, but I was the one engaging him. None of us we're getting any attention, please explain why we would draw attention to ourselves? There was no reason to try to gain town credit, as I was already getting townread by pretty much everyone (Including you, who now all of a sudden thinks I'm scum. Seems more likely you are hiding behind Mala's push on me).

Calling me out for not instantly voting on randomidget after unvoting Hermit is so silly. I mean really? Even if you've never played with me before, it should be fairly obvious I am pretty careful with my votes. Vampirate even called me out for it.

But he

was

bussed, on Day four at least, so it's not impossible that there was bussing/distancing earlier.

I don't think you understand. I would never bus him out of nowhere when we already had two pretty trains going on (Firebringer and Vampirate, especially considering I was calling Vampirate scum). It makes no sense at all for me to do it. Sure this is all WIFOM, but if we were scum partners we would never engage each other at that point.

Also you were townreading the confirmed scum for no freaking reason at all. You've only been scumreading confirmed town. The problem for you is, that you've been townreading everyone alive but TheWorst and he is now confirmed town, so you simply moved onto whoever someone else would push on. This makes me believe the team is you and ika since you joined Mala's train. Mala is still a questionmark, but I believe the team is you and ika.

[duppin]

Eh two other trains, not pretty.*

[duppin]

Is she at L-1?

[duppin]

Alright, then:

VOTE: Vote Huntress

[duppin]

Just realised I added "vote" to my vote.

Anyway, TheWorst hammer whenever you feel like it. I personally have nothing more to add.

[duppin]

Deadline is in 1 day, what's up with guys? Just hammer this already.

[duppin]

Well should be fairly obvious that Huntress is scum, because if she wasn't she would've been lynched. So the last one is between Mala and ika.

[duppin]

That makes no sense. No way Mala and ika are both town, because if they were, I'd blame both of them for going afk doing nothing so close to deadline. Fortunately that is not the case.

[duppin]

I think you posted in the wrong thread!

[duppin]

But well you know, now that you are here, please hammer!

[duppin]

Jesus christ. So you prefer a no lynch, great.

[duppin]

I'm sorry to hear that TheWorst.

Anyway, rushing the lynch? We are so close to the deadline and everyone disappeared for several days. What did you expect?

TheWorst I don't have to explain why someone bussed Random, because that should be obvious why someone would do that. I just so happen to know the remaining scum is to be found between Mala, Huntress and ika since I know I am town and pretty much the only one I can be with is 4nx, which means he is most likely town as well. I've tried to consider a team with 4nx and ika, but I just don't really believe in it.
Mala seems pretty towny to me, but could be scum. At the moment I think Huntress and ika are really scummy though.

[duppin]

6 hours, hammer please.

[duppin]

Can you just read my posts again? The remaining scum are to be found between you, Huntress and ika. Your push on me was weak and fairly suspicious, but the people joining it were more suspicious.
Huntress was my top scum (I even opened the day by saying I was going to go for her), so not entirely sure what you are getting at. The game is pretty much solved at this point.

[duppin]

You are wrong then.

[duppin]

But TheWorst, who is my partner then?

[duppin]

VOTE: Mala

Let's end this.

[duppin]

Thanks for modding and thanks for the game. Would like to see the threads as well!