Open 613: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem!

[itlepip]

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar because salt.

[itlepip]

Superstar's meta seems nooby enough that I don't think the nervousness is a scum tell.

[itlepip]

UNVOTE:

Neither has done anything but joked. Should I have an opinion yet?

One placed their vote on themselves, and the other has their vote on you? I doubt that all they've done so far is a joke....

VOTE: Taly

This is scum.

Could you at least give any reason at all?

Why did you unvote?

[itlepip]

I don't have any real reads. I don't like ika's play at all but I feel like is he trying to be the day 1 lynch on purpose which is just trolly over anything. I would be in favor of lynching him day 2 but I don't trust him with the veng kill.

I have Taly as a scum lean since he seems to just be in favor of lynches without must justification

VOTE: Taly

[itlepip]

I don't have any real reads. I don't like ika's play at all but I feel like is he trying to be the day 1 lynch on purpose which is just trolly over anything. I would be in favor of lynching him day 2 but I don't trust him with the veng kill.

I have Taly as a scum lean since he seems to just be in favor of lynches without must justification

VOTE: Taly

Wait, you want to lynch ika D2 which would mean you think he's scum but you don't want to lynch him today because you don't trust him with a venge shot which would mean you think he's town.

Why the contradictory read here?

I think that he is a trolly town trying his best to get the venge shot. I meant that I don't want him to get the shot so if we do decide to lynch him I suggest doing it tomorrow instead of today.

[itlepip]

I said I think he is town in the post you quoted.

[itlepip]

I don't like the way that ika is playing, and I have been in favor of policy lynches or at least putting people at L-1 when either the game stagnates or people refuse to answer questions or generally lurk. Mostly just because I hate losing to WIFOM with players that play bad that I read town then end up scum.

[itlepip]

Because I don't care. I don't like that he's lining up future lynches in general.

I advocated for a itlepip lynch and a Super venge-shot if there is one. Is this me lining up kills and if so, is it different from what itlepip posted?

I don't like the way that ika is playing, and I have been in favor of policy lynches or at least putting people at L-1 when either the game stagnates or people refuse to answer questions or generally lurk. Mostly just because I hate losing to WIFOM with players that play bad that I read town then end up scum.

Your account is less than a month old. What experience do you have with policy lynches?

In my 1 other game I have decided that I am okay with it, so I have been in favor of policy lynches in 100% of my games on this site :P. Also I have played this game RL and we usually have the people that generally just joke around 'stand trial' to give their reads and explanation, which I have found generally makes the game much more interesting. I personally have sort of mentally equated that with putting someone at L-1, but there are a lot of nuances that I am working on.

[itlepip]

I don't like the way that ika is playing, and I have been in favor of policy lynches or at least putting people at L-1 when either the game stagnates or people refuse to answer questions or generally lurk. Mostly just because I hate losing to WIFOM with players that play bad that I read town then end up scum.

here lets work this out and unpack it a bit:

if im scum, i dont get to venge kill and you guys are up one person
If im town im going to venge shoot the agreed target by the majoirty

so tell me why its not a good idea for me to be the first lynch if you think im town but want to policy?

i mean let put it this way on you:

if your town, you can venge shoot me and be done with it
if your scum its win for us

Because you were acting as if you were going to shoot based on your own reads instead of what the group decided.

[itlepip]

I think that Ika is a trolly town trying his best to get the venge shot.

[itlepip]

Okay, at this point in time because of how little time we have to achieve a lynch today, we need to decided very quickly on who we are lynching today, (very likely me since I played poorly earlier today) and make sure that we actually do successfully lynch someone so we can take advantage of the venge shot.

I have kept my vote on Taly because I am currently of the opinion, which may change, that it is generally better to have a vote in play and that since recently I haven't had a better scum read then Taly I have kept my vote there. When I made my initial read on Taly I missed the question and answer about her motives, nonetheless I still had a slight gut scum read on Taly so I have kept my vote on him.

ika I think is a just slight town read now , his play has become more typical as the day has progressed, his iso doesn't have any obvious scum intent, meh to postive.

Chaos's play seems weird to me. A brief history of Chaos.

43 Here he proposes an initial read on Superstar that I disagree with but is not 100% towny.

128
This play is reasonable from a town perspective but sets up for the potential 5v3 scenario that people mention if both parties are town. This and several following post show that he is in favor of lynching someone today and using the vig shot.

Now out of f*cking nowhere he changes his vote to Taly,

VOTE: Taly

Willing to move my vote to any other player to achieve a lynch, but there's not gonna be a lynch without a deadline extension.

There seem to be two possible motivations for this post, neither of which are towny. If he actually was town, then the only good reason to vote for Taly here is if you don't approve of the veng kill or you think we can all suddenly join the Taly wagon to get that lynch. What hurts this interpretation even more is that he has said nothing to suggest that he has changed his read on me or explain his read on Taly (pot calling the kettle black I know but bear with me). My analysis of this vote change is that he is scum either trying to prevent the veng shot since he is scared of where it is going or by joining in on my vote trying to make it seem like shooting Taly is good here since it would have more support. My current scum read is Chaos.

VOTE: ChaosOmega
I would be willing to hammer myself with the understanding that without a good argument against it my veng will hit Chaos.

[itlepip]

Pedit: 'not 100% towny' should be 'not 100% scummy'

[itlepip]

This is all from itlepip's 169:

128
This play is reasonable from a town perspective but sets up for the potential 5v3 scenario that people mention if both parties are town. This and several following post show that he is in favor of lynching someone today and using the vig shot.

Who gives a shit if people mention it? Do

you

think it's a bad thing?

I think that 5v3 is bad for town yes.

Now out of f*cking nowhere he changes his vote to Taly

He was one of my top 3 scumreads I listed in 100, so "out of fucking nowhere" is a stretch.

yes but then you dropped it to target me and silver after he answered your question. Then you, without giving any reasoning, switch from me to Taly without still not giving any good reason.

There seem to be two possible motivations for this post, neither of which are towny. If he actually was town, then the only good reason to vote for Taly here is if you don't approve of the veng kill or you think we can all suddenly join the Taly wagon to get that lynch. What hurts this interpretation even more is that he has said nothing to suggest that he has changed his read on me or explain his read on Taly (pot calling the kettle black I know but bear with me). My analysis of this vote change is that he is scum either trying to prevent the veng shot since he is scared of where it is going or by joining in on my vote trying to make it seem like shooting Taly is good here since it would have more support.

I was in no way trying to prevent the venge-shot. That makes literally no fucking sense. Did you read the post I voted Taly? I want a lynch today, on anyone. Taly had a few votes already, one of which is RC who can be stubborn with his vote, and I'm suspicious of the slot.

How about you justify your vote on Taly? You were called out for your shitty reasoning, and then you never bothered mentioning it again and moved your vote.

All right, how the hell do you think that this game who has utterly failed to attempt to lynch anyone would switch from me, someone who has been accused by nearly everyone here, to Taly who has been voted on by me, you and RC whose only contributions recently have been prodges. You can say " I want a lynch today" as much as you want but the big points are explaining your vote on Taly and how you expect him to be lynched today.

[itlepip]

ika how is your townbloc going?

[itlepip]

VOTE: itlepip

I think at the current game state no one other than me can be lynched, and I think the venge shot is more useful than keeping myself alive for a few more days. I don't think there is anyway for me to not get mislynched this game.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Jester I think RC and ika are towny here. The shot on Johnny looks to give credence to his reads, I think jester is the most implicated by it.

Superstar, you shouldn't have an RVS vote in play by the end of the day if you aren't reading that person scum.

[itlepip]

We have officially scrapped the town bloc idea right?

[itlepip]

Okay, I am a little worried about following RC's wagon again, he really started the Jester wagon and had kop as one of his scum reads but then didn't like the kop kill? His explanation for the Makara wagon is "I want this".
I don't like Makara's play but since we are so close to mylo that I think that killing someone just because they lurk is bad here. I think that in terms of scummy lurking Saphira's is worse than Makara. Makara's town meta seems much closer to how he is playing here than Saphira's based on their finished games.

Taly I am liking a lot as town

VOTE: Saphira

[itlepip]

VOTE: Makara

Since Makara scumreads Pip, and Pip hasn't interacted with Makara, I'm thinking one of them is scum. (165 - 208)

Why me and not itlepip?

VOTE: itlepip

Is your defense really "let's just not vote for me"?

[itlepip]

I think that I am an easy target for scum to wagon because of my infrequent posting. The motives of those on my wagon should be questioned.

I voted itlepip because of his scummy play yesterday, but I may move it soon after rereading the thread?

Saphira's naked vote makes her a lot scummier. She accused me yesterday of piggybacking and her vote is the definition of piggybacking.

@itlepip - what happened to your scumread on Chaosomega? What's your reasoning for voting Saphira?

@ChaosOmega - can you please explain your vote on Taly?

Chaos has since explained most of his reads better. My vote on Saphira was meta.

[itlepip]

Why are you so concerned about this? Are you reading the game? My vote wasn't RVS. Also, Saphira kept her RVS vote on me all day. Do you have an opinion on that?

I was concerned because I thought somebody was calling me out for doing something while completely ignoring the fact that somebody else was doing exactly the same thing. I mean, if you saw two people doing the same thing, but only one of them gets called out for it, you would wonder why the other person didn't get called out for doing that thing, right?

I can see now (because you pointed it out) that I was right, but not about the person who was doing the same thing that I was.

I don't really see makara keeping her RVS vote on you as a scumread (After all, I kept an RVS vote on someone myself). But I am curious as to why itlepip never called makara out for doing the same thing I did on D1.

So, itlepip... Why didn't you do it?

Wow you are still caught up on that. Makara, don't keep RVS votes until the end of day.
Superstar all I was saying was a general piece of information, my job isn't to find all mistakes and point them out.

I'm rethinking my town read on superstar right now.

[itlepip]

cus when i die and flip town there is not need of rjustificaiton, as for th later, they are a bunch of stements. what should i do? im not going back to reread to see if tis true or not and even if it is what do i say?

its a bunch of stements that have nothing that can be filled with substance

Are you saying here that nothing you said is of value? That is the only way I could make sense of it but I doubt that is what you are saying here.

[itlepip]

Also Makara should be prodded.

[itlepip]

Are you saying here that nothing you said is of value? That is the only way I could make sense of it but I doubt that is what you are saying here.

no i was replying to saph who made a bunch of statements on her read towards me and wanted m input on it. I said there's nothing to comment on

Ika, could you post a readlist at some point since honestly I don't know how you are reading most of the people here right now.

[itlepip]

VOTE: ika until he actually explains what he is talking about as I am feeling Saphira as more towny.

[itlepip]

hi ika

[itlepip]

VOTE: ika
I feel like he is trying to get a lynch based on semantics as opposed to reads.

[itlepip]

VOTE: ika

[itlepip]

VOTE: RC

I am caught up.

Explain that vote please.

[itlepip]

It's the most logical move. Ika is obvious town. RC nor ika was hammerred which suggests one is scum. RC's ISO is weak. SW is probably town. We could be assholes and wagon her to confirm but I don't plan to fill my weekly quota of dickishness in this game

Why is ika obvious town to you?

Grab any scum game of his. Compare his ISO to here.

I rest my case.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
What is the massive difference you see, cause I don't see much. I have absolutely no idea where any of what you are talking about is coming from.

[itlepip]

VOTE: Blade
Blade, just stay and let us lynch you

[itlepip]

UNVOTE:

[itlepip]

UNVOTE:

itlepip: To clarify, is this an "I no longer believe makara/Blade Dancer is scummy" unvote, or is it an "I still think makara/Blade Dancer is scum but want to see how others react" unvote?

That was a "I don't think Blade should be hammered yet" unvote. I liked the her last post regardless of whether or not I fully agree with it. I currently am a fan of moving the pressure around before lynching because a mislynch now basically makes this game unwinnable. I agree with the read that ika and blade aren't scum together. My biggest problem with the blade lynch is I'm not sure who his team is. A RC Taly world is certainly possible on the other hand, but honestly I'm most scared of an RC Blade world. Chaos Omega is frustrating as he is just lurking at this point and I have never been a fan of his play this game. I think because a RC Blade world is more likely than a Taly blade world I would prefer a lynch on RC here.

VOTE: RC

[itlepip]

Chaos, do you still think RC is scum?

[itlepip]

Trying to recruit me over to your wagon?

I'm wondering if you buy Blade's Taly RC world.

[itlepip]

UNVOTE:
I was trying to move wagons around to bait out the 1-shot, I read RC pretty heavily town though so it was difficult to be find a good reason to vote for him.
I'm currently okay with either a blade or Taly lynch here.

[itlepip]

lol fuck off

sorry

[itlepip]

498
I liked him in the arguments with ika. I'm planning to do a vote count analysis so I am expecting my reads to shift dramatically.

[itlepip]

Le Votecount:

SilverWolf

-

Saphira

Taly

-

RadiantCowbells

, ChaosOmega

Kop

- Silverwolf

SuperStar2361 -

Makara

ChaosOmega - SuperStar2361,

itlepip

itlepip

-

JohnnyFarrar

,

Kop,

Taly

The_Jester

-

ika

,

RadiantCowbells

,

Kop

,

itlepip

,

SilverWolf

,

Saphira 7

,

The_Jester

Not Lynching-

Taly

, ChaosOmega,

Makara

Superstar
[LYNCH]

Blade Dancer

-

SilverWolf, Saphira 7

Taly

- ChaosOmega,

ika, RadiantCowbells

RadiantCowbells

-

Blade Dancer

,

Taly

I really don't think that no one on the jester wagon was mafia, so I don't think that ika or RC are going to move past scumlean today. I like RC's play better than ika but the hard defend of ika from blade I think gives him town points regardless of Makara's alignment. blade's point that RC and Taly haven't voted for each other really isn't true. I don't like Makara's slot's play but I having trouble seeing many possible partners besides maybe Taly. Taly I like the play of more but there seems to be many more likely worlds where Taly is scum. I don't have a good read on either Chaos or Superstar.

[itlepip]

No.

Why not? I don't recall anyone townreading that slot.

Who do you think are bussing the slot then?

[itlepip]

I mean to be fair if we never lynch we can't lose this game.

There is something to be said for lynching 1 more time and if it is a mislynch not lynching any more.

[itlepip]

OK, there's many things I find problematic here.

1)

How are there more likely possibilities with me being scum with anyone here? Who are they? I already stated before that any arguments for association with Blade don't make sense.

2)

If you like my play in general - what about it is scummy or not helpful?

3)

If you want to think that Blade is town for her random hard-defend on Ika, where is the ambiguity generating from with any other association tells?

4)

Where is your Chaos and Super reads?

5)

There's 3 mafia in the set-up. You only have 1 definitive mafia read. Please try again.

6)

I'm scum but all of your "null/conflicted" reads have their votes placed on myself? What does this even indicate?

7)

You're only looking at 3 VOTE COUNTS - not like, the 10+ that we have - some of them even date back to D1... Why didn't you look at something like 312 - where my vote was on Blade's slot? Or 426 when Blade and Ika had their wagon on RC together? I don't understand your logic about 199 - Since Jester and Kop flipped town and were on your wagon, that means I'm scum?

1. I couldn't find any argument for why you and blade can't be scum together, There definitely has been a fair amount of bussing for nearly everyone, so you pushing a Makara wagon proves nothing. I think that the only evidence against you and ika is you putting him at l-1 but I don't think that was a very likely lynch anyway. You and RC are a very reasonable scum group in my opinion. You didn't interact with him much the first day and the second day started scumreading him only when you had a substancial wagon. You and chaos and you and superstar are both possible. Blade on the other hand I really don't think is teaming with ika, or RC since RC's had some defense of Makara early that I don't think scum would do if they are partners.

2. Don't understand this question

3. I don't think blade is town???

6. That would be bussing, also Blade isn't voting for you who is at this point my first scumread
VOTE: Blade

7. I looked at all of them but picked the ones that I thought were the most meaningful or confused me the most (the last one and the lynch on Jester).

[itlepip]

Itlepip and Taly's vote switches here weird me out. I'm not switching to Vedith here.

You and RC are a very reasonable scum group in my opinion. You didn't interact with him much the first day and the second day started scumreading him only when you had a substancial wagon.

And yet you're jumping at every possible straw to avoid jumping on Taly. If you thought he was my scumpartner, you'd be trying to lynch one of the two of us.

Instead, you're off stalling and pushing us as a team but only actually support a vote on me. So, like, no. I almost feel bad for your scumteam because of how obvious you are.

When did I ever say I don't support a vote on Taly. The thing I don't support is a lynch on Taly right now, because my vote would put him at L-1 and I am slightly worried about a scum hammering.

[itlepip]

You're all confident that you've found one of those no-good, scummy varmints. You get out the noose and advance on The_Jester...

"STOP!" he shouts as he pulls out a small revolver.

"I've got one shot, and I ain't gonna waste it! Take me down and someone goes down with me!"

You rush at him like a freight train, but he wasn't bluffing. Before you can tackle him to the ground, he shoots his single shot right into Kop's chest.

You drag the bastard out into the street and tighten the noose around his throat.

"String 'im up, boys.''

The_Jester has been lynched!

You check through his bag to find....nothing. He was a normal citizen.

You head back into town hall and check Kop's bag...nothing....another citizen...

Day 2 Now Begins... and ends in:

(expired on 2015-10-31 11:15:00)

Vedith, what are you talking about? Kop was killed by Jester with the venge shot.

[itlepip]

I know he was.

Kop is town though.

[itlepip]

Really glad I didn't vote for Taly there, 554 is semantics and 556 and 558 are just bad. Aphix, could you please explain the whole SW is scum, b/c all you said was 'ooh suprise he is scum' which doesn't really prove anything or provide any evidence.

[itlepip]

itlepip: It's a combination of word choices, weird postings, and his interactions. The fact that he's sliding through the whole game just kind of doing nothing, and everyone is letting him because of bullshit loud ass tvt that has been going on.

Hmm, reread her iso, could you link stuff for me, I can't get her any lower than null. She had a very good early day 1 and has had fairly constant reads. The main thing though is that I actually don't know what SW's current reads are so since she is posting I want her to go over those please.

[itlepip]

kinda sick of this day tbh.
VOTE: Vedith

[itlepip]

What? vedith coming in didn't change my opinion on makara's slot, I thought Blade was acting scummy

[itlepip]

Chaos is confirm town

[itlepip]

Howcome?
I didn't see that part.

read the flip

[itlepip]

Honestly I suggest that if no one is killed either within 1 or 2 day cycles mod randomly kills someone so that stalling doesn't work next time this setup is done.

In the meantime just to get the game going
VOTE: Taly

[itlepip]

The news was cool but the character just feels like shulk 2.0, not the biggest fan.

[itlepip]

The news was cool but the character just feels like shulk 2.0, not the biggest fan.

Did you watch the trailer? His range is much less, he seems to have his own Limit Break mechanic which alters his specials, and his weight and speed are very different.

Honestly as you can tell by my avi, I'm more of a melee fanboy so I'm looking for the more combo and movement heavy characters. Between roy, marth, ike, lucina, shulk, and now cloud I feel like all the sword characters are overlapping a lot. Still hype though.

[itlepip]

WTF