Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[Ranger]

VOTE: makara.
May or may not be serious.
I'll leave that up to you.

[Ranger]

What if I said that a better vote might actually be this?
VOTE: Errantparabola.

[Ranger]

[quot="Errantparabola"]my vote is semiserious i think[/quote] Mine was 80%.
It's 100% now.

[Ranger]

...Let's try that again.

my vote is semiserious i think

Mine was 80%.
It's 100% now.

[Ranger]

Can you both explain why?

Easily. When I posted my vote on makara, I was convinced everyone who had posted was far more likely to be town than not. (Obviously, can't put much stock in RVS posting, but Ika, makara, Varsoon, and GrayFox all didn't look like scum with their opening votes, and you gotta start

somewhere

.) However, I knew that if I voted for someone who hadn't posted with my "may or may not be serious" disclaimer, everyone would assume it wasn't serious. So I voted makara in spite of not thinking makara was scum, waiting for someone to vote in a manner that looked like scum.

Errant following my vote made me instantly think she was scum.

[Ranger]

vote: GM
free town points to anyone who can guess why i made this vote.

I

might

see what you're seeing, so I could probably follow you, but I happen to hold stronger suspicion on Errant.

[Ranger]

@ranger pls get an avi - it makes your posts easily recognizable on a quick glance

Can't. I tried, but I got an error. Sorry. It shouldn't be a problem, though, so long as I'm the only avatarless player in the game.

[Ranger]

It says the file cannot be displayed because the extension is not allowed, but I've tried png, jpeg, and gif, all for an image that's 52x90 pixels large, and only 7.47 kb. I really don't know why it's not working. :/

[Ranger]

Ah, there we go.
IT WORKS!

[Ranger]

I'm interested to know what you might be seeing regarding GM.

Realized I skipped over answer this, sorry. Didn't mean to ignore it. Generally, I've been raised to not immediately reveal these things until more time has passed, allowing more players to chime in. Particularly, the player being pressured. (In this case, GM.) So I can answer, but I generally like to wait until time has passed.

I assumed Ika was doing the same thing, actually.

[Ranger]

I don't agree with 'waiting for time to pass' if the player being waited on isn't really being pushed to answer, which appears to be the case. Now that goodmorning has weighed in below, would you feel like sharing your feelings on them?

Sure. If Ika saw the same thing I did, it's basically the contrast between GM's first post and second. In GM's first post, there was a decent vote with a decent reason: could be serious, could be random, good content generator. Yet in the second post GM made, regardless of whether GM's vote was actually serious or not, the tone behind it was clearly less serious, rather than more.

That pinged me as being a bit unnatural. But it's not very strong, whereas my Errantparabola suspicion is.

[Ranger]

Worthy of note: in addition to Errantparabola, I've got my eye on GM (see above), Brunneis, and Trivium.

I don't think all four are scum, but I think we've got at least two in that group of four.

[Ranger]

Talk to me about Trivium - What stuck out for you with him?

Bad gut reaction to 78 and 79. Particularly 78. If I had the source pinpointed, I'd be applying more pressure, but sadly, I don't.

Wait, why Brunneis?

This one will take a little bit more explaining. I've had a long day, so I hope it's okay for you to wait a while. (Sleepy Ranger is ineffective Ranger.)

[Ranger]

Brunneis: you asked for reasoning, but it will have to wait. I'm a bit tired today, sorry.

[Ranger]

Wanted to ask.
Whatever happened to the Errant wagon?

Errantparabola - (6) goodmorning, Ranger, Makara, Brunneis, The Fire Hermit, Trivium

We had this, and now...it's down to just three.

Errant escaped from L-1 unscathed.

[Ranger]

Vote:Brunneis

And now the Errant wagon is down to two, and the Brunneis wagon is up to four.

Compare:

Errantparabola - (6) goodmorning, Ranger, Makara, Brunneis, The Fire Hermit, Trivium

To:

Brunneis – (4) MaxwellPuckett, GrayFoxxxx, The Fire Hermit, Trivium

I continue to think that between Errant, Trivium, and Brunneis, we have two scum.

[Ranger]

Ranger - FoS for weird bailing on Errant wagon

What.

I'm THE driving force behind the Errant wagon. I voted Errant early and haven't moved my vote since then, with Errant always as my #1 scumread.

[Ranger]

I'll read the four pages tomorrow, but I'm not optimistic about there being relevant content.

[Ranger]

You were on the Errant wagon, but later you started talking about GM, Trivium, and us.

...And there's at least three scum, maybe four, in the game.

Errant has always been my priority, but I'd be a fool to focus exclusively on them.

If I had to choose between Brunneis and Trivium I would say that Trivium is more likely to be scum based on his awful defense. However, I think it's pretty scummy to make today's lynch a choice between these two players.

I am in agreement. Nothing's changed my opinion on Errant being the best lynch.

[Ranger]

Why are you thinking theres four?

I don't. I said it's possible there's four. There's a minimum of three scum in the game. There might be a fourth. This is an absolute fact of the setup. Regardless, my point was that there's not going to be just one scum player in the game, so I shouldn't focus all my attention on just one player.

[Ranger]

@Ranger - what is your rationale for scumreading errant?

I already explained my reasoning for scumreading Errant.

Nothing has changed my opinion since my 49. In fact, because of what I pointed out in 223/259, the read has only grown stronger. I very much find the Errant wagon's dissolution suspect.

I may vote Trivium if needed, but otherwise, would much prefer my vote on Errant.

[Ranger]

Nothing has changed this:
VOTE: Errantparabola.

[Ranger]

Scum team is Brunneis, Makara, and Varsoon. Bet firebringers life on it.

Varsoon is 100% town, I'm afraid, so you are wrong there, but you can be right about the other two. (Honestly, I actually hope you are. It'd make my job much easier.)

I haven't caught all the way up yet, so could you explain this to me?

Sure. Absolutely nothing has changed since 459 which was a post where I said nothing had changed. Errant remains the best lynch.

I'll admit I don't know who the other scum are (you're a possibility, I'm considering makara, I do have my eye on Brunneis, but otherwise I don't), but Errant remains every bit the scum she was yesterday.

[Ranger]

Checking in.
Not claiming a role.

[Ranger]

Why is he one-hundred percent town?

Because this is an open game where Varsoon very clearly was claiming doctor in a very convincing manner when there are two nightkills flying around which paints a giant target on his head for scum to say, "SHOOT ME".

[Ranger]

49, 233, 259.
When I posted my vote on makara, I was convinced everyone who had posted was far more likely to be town than not. So I voted makara in spite of not thinking makara was scum, waiting for someone to vote in a manner that looked like scum.

Errant following my vote made me instantly think she was scum.

Then, the Errantparabola wagon:

Errantparabola - (6) goodmorning, Ranger, Makara, Brunneis, The Fire Hermit, Trivium

...Which I know has 4/6 players be town on it, mysteriously vanished, going from L-1 to just me by the end of the day.

With the votes switching to Brunneis, I became convinced that between Errant, Trivium, and Brunneis, we have two scum.
While I'm not sold on Brunneis, I still hold my opinion on Errant.

[Ranger]

Trivium - (7) Brunneis, MaxwellPuckett, Varsoon, Makara, duppin, The Fire Hermit, Ika Musume
Brunneis – (3) GrayFoxxxx, Trivium, goodmorning

It is also worth noting for the Brunneis wagon that the only unflipped player on it is GrayFox and it was otherwise town.

So I think it's a very real possibility Trivium was a town counterwagon to scum-Brunneis, who were themselves a counterwagon to Errant. I'm of the opinion, though, that Errant-Brunneis was scum-scum.

[Ranger]

As for a third, my bet is also on the Trivium wagon: GrayFox hasn't struck me as scum, nor has Vedith.

So the options are MaxwellPuckett, makara, and duppin. Of them, my bet is on makara.

So my scumteam theory is {Errant, Brunneis, makara}.

Not sure about the SK, though.

[Ranger]

I agree with

his

VCA.

So I have to ask. (I say et. all because GrayFox is not the only one doing it;

everyone

is.)

Is there something about the tonality of my posting style that makes people default to male in spite of me very clearly having 'she' marked, or is there something inherently male about the name Ranger? 'Cause if the latter, Amy Jo Johnson would have a word with you.

[Ranger]

In other news: the only reason I'm not voting Brunneis right now (because their posting on page 22 makes them painfully obvious scum) is so that we can finish massclaim; my vote would place them in hammering range I do believe.

(Also, I already claimed VT earlier by implication.)

It's been 500+ posts and you still believe Errant is the best lynch?

Well, I

did

, but you've changed that from your posting on page 22 alone. There's so much wrongness in it that you've managed to surpass a read I thought I wouldn't be letting loose of. But yes, previously, I did, and I still think Errant's the best lynch for tomorrow. Nothing has changed my opinion on Errant. The slot was scum from their early content, and her later content did nothing to weaken the read. In fact, the L-1 wagon on her collapsing strengthens my conviction about Errant.

Why is Errant still the best lynch even after the flips from others we saw previously?

The same reason Errant was the best lynch before: because she has the (now-second-)highest chance of flipping scum of all the players in the game.

Well, Trivium, GM, and Vedith all flipped town..... I don't know how that leads to Errant being the days best lynch from what Ranger is saying.

BECAUSE they all flipped town is why Errant's the (second-)best lynch. Errant's who I wanted dead before and I still stick by that call.

Probably both Ranger and Errant, and maybe Gray...

Hmm...this sounds familiar...

My current scumreads are errant, ranger and a scumlean on greyfox.

Ah! That would be why.

I don't think this coincidence.

Plus, I would also like him to explain Errant a bit more.

You act like 514, 515, and to some extent 516 don't exist.

[Ranger]

I explain my train of thought in 139
Have you ever responded to that? Nope.

There was no need.

You explained your justification, but your 139 did not change how I felt about your play.
Were you expecting me to say, "I don't buy that"? I suppose in hindsight I could have, but all that would have led to is a battle of 'no u's: "I don't believe that" "well that's what happened" "well that's what you say" "because that's what it was" "and I simply think it wasn't" "but it was" "I think it wasn't" "it was", you get the idea.

I stated my stance.
You've stated your defense.
My stance did not change after your defense, nor did I have anything to say about your defense.

It's like you don't understand that maybe there are things that exist outside of my post 49 that might move people to leave my wagon.

That's because there wasn't. You never posted between the peak of the wagon and its utter collapse. (I may be mistaken, but even if so, I know for a fact that nobody responded to your defense with an, "ah, that makes sense, UNVOTE". In other words, it was factors outside your defense causing the wagon to dissipate, not your defense itself.)

Do you really think that makara and Brunneis have enough towncred to influence the momentum on my wagon without there being some rational argument to lead people off my wagon?

Not by themselves. With a nudge, yes, by influencing The Fire Hermit, and then follow the IC mentality kicks in.

Implication? Can you link this post?

479.

OK, you've not said anything about how my posting is scummy - or what post is scummy because both heads of this hydra posted last page.

Honestly, I don't need to. I'm sorry to say this, but you're getting lynched. Period. I simply don't need to spend the time pointing it out when you are going to get lynched anyway.

Were some mysterious factor to appear and make your lynch look doubtful, sure, then I would step up and point out why you're scum, but I just have no reason to right now.

So you magically went from Errant being the best lynch earlier this dayphase
To me being "undoubtedly" the best lynch of the day for pointing out the obvious and responding to people pushing my wagon?

No, I went from having Errant as my preferred lynch to having you as my preferred lynch because of your scumposting on that page.

So... What I'm seeing from those posts is that Errant responded at a time you would think someone very scummy would respond all the way back in page 1....And you're thinking the other wagons of D1 were just to counter the original wagon that you pushed for the first half of D1 you were actually present?

Pretty much, yeah!

Since Varsoon hopped off,
VOTE: Brunneis.
Don't quote me on this, but I think that's either L-2 or L-3.

[Ranger]

and why would you be inclined to sheep whatever he puts out?

I wouldn't.
Others would.

Not claiming anything at all is supposed to mean you're VT?

Yeah.

I've never seen town willing lynch someone with so much confidence in their that they just dismiss the person as if they're lynch bait.

I'm not dismissing you. If I was, I wouldn't be reading and responding to your posts. I'm listening, you're just not making a positive impression.

And it makes it even worse that even IF something were to doubt my wagon - you'd STILL push to lynch me? What the hell?

Not what I said. I said if some mysterious force rendered it doubtful your wagon would go through by itself,

then

I would post my case, as to redirect attention back onto you.

If something were come up that would make me doubt your wagon, sure, I'd back off and start pushing Errantparabola, but that's not happening.

Your defense is to just paint all my post as scum and be done with it?

No, I never said it was all your posting. I simply haven't pointed out what the particular parts are that reveal the scum behind you.

So this game is completely centered around who you want to lynch and think should die?

Never said that.

"Varsoon jumped off so I should just jump on to keep the progress up!"

Varsoon jumped off, so I could jump on safely. I wasn't sure if you were at L-3 or L-2 before; had I voted and you were placed at L-1, a hammer could happen before the finish of massclaim. But since Varsoon unvoted, I knew you were either at L-4 or L-3; in either case, it would be safe for me to vote you, so I did.

If someone else were to vote you and I saw it, of course I'd unvote.

[Ranger]

Who do you have in mind?

The people who actually did follow the IC. :P

Well, you're not explaining or doing anything, so I see most of your responses are just to A) Keep me replying B) Make me look bad C) Waiting for a better time to put on your case or say something against me when I have less resistance.

Yes, D, all of the above.

All of which aren't changing my scumread on you.

Well that's not my problem now, is it?

Do you know how weird it looks that you have only had collectively 2 scumreads - or 2 people you've pushed this entire game?

False. I've had five: Errant, goodmorning, you, Trivium, and makara, in that order. (Or you, goodmorning. I forget which of you two I suspected first.) I dropped the goodmorning suspicion when I realized he was a PR (he wasn't at all subtle), and kept the other three (Errant, you, Trivium) until the D1 lynch.

And what mysterious force are you talking about?

Beats me. That's why it's mysterious. :P

I'm waiting.

And my response hasn't changed.

Can you be less vague, please?

Can I? Yes. Do I have reason to be? No.

Are you insinuating that Varsoon jumped off my wagon just so you could jump on?

No, I'm saying that with Varsoon off, I could get on.

And I'm pretty unconvinced about you saying you'd unvote if I were pushed to L-1 now...

I'm not logging off. Try self-voting. Instant I see it, I unvote.

[Ranger]

I'm not logging off.

I'm only human and it's been a full hour, so this bit has expired.

[Ranger]

No, I think you DO have a reason to be less vague, Ranger.

Why? If they're getting lynched with me being vague, what cause do I have to go more explicit? Town credit if they flip scum? To lessen suspicion if they flip town? I see no need for either. I'm not the strongest pusher of Brunneis as scum so I deserve no town credit for it, and if I'm wrong about them then I intend to take full responsibility for having been wrong.

I don't like this 'I'll prove I won't vote you at L-1."

Never said I was trying to prove it. Just making a factual statement. If Brunneis would be too close to being lynched before we've finished massclaim, I'd unvote. Otherwise, I wouldn't. If they self-voted, instantly I'd be around to unvote to prevent a hammer. Same for anyone having voted, but they're the ones with control of their vote, so they made the easiest example.

I feel like you're trying to prove you're not dismissing them by interacting, but all I'm seeing is a weird conversation between you two that is just a series of 'no, you're interpreting this thing wrong' from both sides.

As I said, I've got nothing to prove. I think Brunneis is scum, yes, but my belief in it doesn't mean it's necessarily true, so I do owe them the courtesy of interactions. I feel no need to explain myself to them, but I feel obligated to at least interact with them.

'Sides. Not like I have anything better to do in this game. I'm waiting for massclaim to finish, so I might as well talk to people while I wait.

[Ranger]

Brunneis: VT.
duppin: VT.
Errantparabola: ?
goodmorning: flipped 1x cop.
GrayFox: VT.
Ika: Claimed Unspecified role.
makara: ?
MaxwellPuckett: VT.
Ranger: VT.
The Fire Hermit: IC.
Trivium: Flipped VT.
Varsoon: Claimed doctor.
Vedith: Flipped VT.

[Ranger]

Ika: Unspecified role, targeted makara N1.

[Ranger]

Also, Varsoon: Claimed doctor, targeted goodmorning N1. (Thus, mafia have a roleblocker.)
Two kills at night = serial killer.

[Ranger]

Hmm...
UNVOTE: Brunneis.
I want massclaim to finish, but I'm thinking about something.

[Ranger]

And they are?

Too lazy to look, but there were at least two or three people who

explicitly

said they were. More could have done so implicitly, too.

Wow, you don't even bring up a case to me yet you say I'm going to be the lynch without question?

The former is because of the latter. If you're going to be lynched no matter what I say, then more evidence supporting the cause for lynching you is, simply put, not necessary.

We could possibly be dealing with a scumteam double that size and you're fixated on tunneling 2 people...

Again, false. I have three current scumreads. While that's one short of what we have, it's a fairly strong start.

Are you telling me to self-vote JUST so you can prove that you unvote and NOT hammer me?

No, I'm pointing out that if you really thought I was scum lying, you could have put your life on the line to prove it.

[Ranger]

Whoah, one vote?
Well then.

VOTE: Brunneis.
Guess I can leave this here and think safely.
(I think we're good on a re-think, but not absolutely sure.)

[Ranger]

Too lazy to back up your own statements? I guess they're false, then.

No, they are objectively, provably true. If I told you that people

didn't

believe the world was flat and in fact most people knew the approximate size of the world around Columbus's time, I wouldn't need to link to wikipedia. It's a true fact. It can be shown, demonstrated with research. I simply am too lazy to bother making that effort.

Why is it this unspoken decree that I'm going to be lynched no matter what, today?

I guess you missed the memo, but every player I've seen save for players that are very real candidates for being your scumbuddies have been saying you're their preferred lynch.

The more you say this, the more it lends me to believe you know something that town doesn't.

What, you think I know there's a cop guilty on you or something? 'Cause that sounds an awful lot like you scumslipping.

"One short of what we have"?

We have one player unclaimed.
It was obvious from the nightkills that it wasn't a vig, too. What vig would shoot goodmorning? What vig would shoot Vedith? Both are distinctly scum-oriented targets.
So yes. What we have is three scum and a serial killer.
Meaning my three suspects is...one short of what we have.

Plus - why would you townread people when you know there is scum between them, in that case?

You're joking with this question, right?
Because I can't seriously believe I need to point out to you that nobody ever holds perfect reads in a game especially not all the time. Of course I townread people when I know there's a scum in them. That means I'm wrong about one of the townreads, but it doesn't change that I hold the townread.

Furthermore - You said you had 5 scumreads total - and now you have 3?

Yes, because two of them died and flipped town. I have held five scumreads total for the entire game. I hold three current scumreads.

Why do you keep unvoting and re-voting?

I didn't vote you because I was afraid voting you would put you too close to a lynch, when we needed to finish massclaim.
I voted you when Varsoon had unvoted, removing said concern.
I unvoted because, surprise surprise, I'm actually a town player who was reconsidering a big assumption I had made.
I revoted because of the listed reasons: both an utter lack of threat behind voting (there is no danger of the day ending) and because I'm pretty confident that I was just being paranoid about the assumption.

[Ranger]

The missing person happens to be makara.

[Ranger]

(Though Ika needs to claim what role they are for responsibility purposes once makara has claimed.)

[Ranger]

How do you know there's 4 Scum?

Because

this is an open setup

and I'm not an idiot.

[Ranger]

This is me,

not

responding to the things I have already responded to.

Everyone in this game should know there's four scum. Anyone claiming otherwise has either not read the setup in relation to our claims, or is an idiot.

[Ranger]

Persivul is confirming my makara suspicion was justified; he is very obviously scum, here.

But massclaim has finished. It's time to wagon Brunneis.

I shouldn't need to defend myself since, via lack of a vig claim, my claim for four scum has been vindicated.

[Ranger]

Yeah, you're welcome for that analysis which just supported you...

After I specifically said I needed no support.

You laid out the obvious; it didn't need to be said.

That's reason to scumread you, not townread.

What about ika?

Fair point, I forgot they only half-claimed.

Why?

Because that's what we were doing before the massclaim, and with good reason.

Agreed.

You agree I don't need to be defended...in the same post where you explicitly admit you did exactly that.
Yeah.

I maintain Persivul is scum.

[Ranger]

We should wagon Persival instead of Brunneis imo

I actually agree.
VOTE: Persivul.

Two words...first one begins with "Fuck"

Is the second one "off" or "you"? Makes the difference in my answer. ;)

[Ranger]

I find Brunneis to be incredibly, incredibly town and the only thing that would make me question it is ika disagreeing on it (we should have this sorted out when he gets off work or tomorrow if I'm asleep by then). my next two town reads are on Errant and makara/Persivul, but these are such weak reads I don't put any faith whatsoever in them at this juncture.

I really can't see how you could possibly reach this conclusion.

Gray, you've done basically nothing but pdodge this entire fucking game, and I sure as hell don't remember you doing this in EOSD.

I wasn't going to say anything, but GrayFox has been one of my strong candidates for being the serial killer. I don't think he's part of a scumteam, but I also did get a not-town vibe from him.

Ranger, there is a lot I dislike about your posts, but the blaringly obvious thing is that you were pushing Errant was scum due to the L-1 wagon on her when _it was an RVS wagon_.

Except it wasn't. Maybe it began IN the RVS, but that doesn't make it an RVS wagon. My vote was dead-serious, and pretty much most of the other votes were explicitly serious, too. The peak of the wagon was well after the RVS had ended, in fact.

I also pretty strongly disagree with your recent read on Brunneis (which came after a sizable wagon on Brunneis had developed and I'm pretty sure you refused to elaborate on it when asked?)

My scumread on Brunneis came even before The Fire Hermit's. Note my 91. Fire Hermit actually asked me

why

I was scumreading Brunneis. So no, my scumread on Brunneis did not come after a sizable wagon had formed; I was the first one to hold it the entire game and it has not faded. You're right that I haven't elaborated, but mostly that's laziness. I feel no need to explain myself, so...I don't.

It's a bad habit that I should break, Brunneis is no longer my preferred lynch, and since someone that's pretty much guaranteed to be town is asking (rather than the person in question themselves, Brunneis), I've got some motivation to try, so I'll see what I can do to break it at some point. Not right now, but in the near future. (Don't hold me to a date.)

[Ranger]

Do you agree that his vote at least was out of place?

Serious or not, it doesn't matter. Yes. That vote was out of place. It was forced and awkward.

I'm looking through it again and you did actually nothing to explain said read or try to pressure them throughout the entire D1. so no, that doesn't really count as a "scum read".

I don't do pushes that often. Lazy. That in no manner invalidates the reads existence.

I also really strongly disagree with your mentality of "a lot of people in this game have you as a scum read, so you're getting lynched today". I think scum are significantly more likely to say things like that than town are.

Well, tough. My experience is the opposite.

the town approach in that kind of situation would have been to try and convince other people to vote along with you in some way, either by laying out actual reasons for Brunneis being scum or even something along the lines of "will you wagon Brunneis with me"/"what is your read on Brunneis" if you don't want to elaborate on it.

As far as I knew, at the time, Brunneis was a universal scumread.

Universal

.

Why would I be asking about things I had taken for granted as happening? I wouldn't ask about a read I already knew (or 'knew') they held; that'd be redundant. I wouldn't ask them to vote a player they already were going to; that would also be redundant and counter-productive given massclaim hadn't finished yet.

I don't think you really care about trying to push the Brunneis wagon through here.

Explicitly so, yes. Where did I give you the impression I cared about trying to push the Brunneis wagon through? Because I flat-out don't.

why do you say he's not part of a scum team?

Because that's what my read is. I don't think he's part of the scumteam. I do think he could be the serial killer. I'm not inclined to go on SK-hunts, though, which is one of the reasons I was hesitant to bring up the read at all.

[Ranger]

Why so secretive about the reads you have?

I'm not secretive about reads I hold at all. It's reasons that I like to hold back on. The later I give them, the better in my experience.

Persival, Maxwell, and Ranger we see as Null or Town, but we aren't in full agreement.

What.
To all of these, really, but especially me.

This makes no sense. All three of these (possible exception, Maxwell; I'd have to check) were in your scum pool.

I also really hate this duppin wagon. Of all the names that could be scum, he is the least likely by far.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Brunneis.
I'd rather vote Persivul, but if the options are Brunneis and duppin, no prize for guessing who I'm voting.

{Varsoon, Ika, The Fire Hermit}
{duppin}
{MaxwellPuckett}
{GrayFox}
{Errantparabola, Persivul, Brunneis}.

[Ranger]

Because I seriously do not get the suspicion on duppin. At all. He seems to be posting really, really strongly in a ridiculously-town manner.

[Ranger]

Okay you sniping jerk, let me rephrase that because my normal speech patterns seem to have left an opening for you.
duppin IS posting really, really strongly, no 'seems to be'.

His posting is very, very strongly town.

[Ranger]

What.
To all of these, really, but especially me.

This makes no sense. All three of these (possible exception, Maxwell; I'd have to check) were in your scum pool.

Brunneis, I do believe you skipped this part, unless I missed something in your recent posting.

[Ranger]

This is ridiculous. I like the duppin wagon better. If duppin is scum, he's more dangerous than brunneis. But brun is looking scummier by the post, and it's apparent that nothing else is going to get done while they're still in the game.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: brunneis

This is why I'd be voting Persivul if I had the opportunity.

[Ranger]

it is, on the other hand, the kind of angle I would come up with as scum if I was looking for an easy excuse to push what I think is a consensus read in a way where I don't want people to question it.

If it's a consensus read...

...Where's the dang WAGON on Errant?

Yeah.

(Bitter about that if you can't tell.)

Ranger, if you want to sway me on a Brun lynch (aka finally elaborate on why you think they're scum), now's your chance.

Thing is, I don't. I'm voting Brunneis because I'd rather that over duppin, but I'm peaking at the votecount at the bottom of the page, and seeing it?

VOTE: GrayFox.

[Ranger]

you think that looks like bussing, as opposed to scum searching for a bullshit reason to push the big wagon?

I don't really care about Brunneis in regards to Persivul.

I think, regardless of Brunneis's alignment, Persivul is scum.

I'll be doing other things for a few hours, but if I skipped something in my skimming, let me know.

[Ranger]

I made a case on duppin, it got two more votes, then it stalled.

And then you hopped onto the Brunneis wagon for incredibly-sketchy reasons.

BTW, have you considered the setup and what it says about my slot? ika appears to be a RB and targeted maka N1, but the NK went through, the SK went through, and according to the doc the scum RB went through. This clears me as potential SK. It doesn't completely clear me as scum, but it is certainly in my favor.

Given three scum? Not really, no. I've always thought you scum, not serial killer.

I'm scared to lynch her until she actually answers my question so I can solidify a read on her.

I'm forgetful; you'll have to remind me what question it was.

[Ranger]

my issue with ranger is that she's mostly spent this entire game mostly tunneling her reads without any sort of reevaluation or awareness of anything going on elsewhere.

Wrong. My reads have, several times, changed. My read on Makara/Persivul changed. My read on Brunneis changed. My read on GrayFox changed. The only read I have consistently held is my read on Errantparabola being scum. All other reads (well, except the obvious) have fluctuated.

I simply haven't had my stance change on Errant, because nothing done has changed anything.

the fact that she was passive enough to not bother pushing brunneis while supposedly doing this is also bad in hindsight

I pushed Brunneis plenty. All of my quotes were pushing Brunneis during the massclaim. I didn't give

reasoning

, but I was pushing. I stopped my push when I was no longer convinced they were scum.

even when she *did* have a strong scum read (Persi), she still did fucking nothing to push it

Except I did? Literally every post was me talking about how I wanted Persivul lynched. I was bringing up his posts as they happened, stating my distaste for them, and stating my preference for a lynch on him, while begrudgingly acknowledging that it might not have the support to go through. That's me pushing.

i find ranger's magical SK-read on fox to be problematic because i would expect it to be a legitimate read alignment regardless, but it is significantly easier to distinguish mafia vs. SK when you know who the mafia is

Look, I was just as surprised as you were when it ended up being right, but that's what I was reading him as. I didn't think he was town, but I didn't think he was mafia. The better question you have to ask is why I, as

mafia

, would

publicly declare

that I thought GrayFox was a serial killer, when I could just hide him under the thought of him being a mafiate. All it did was paint a target on me for being suspiciously accurate, no?

i think Brun is the scum-designated LYLO mislynch, which, incidentally, both Ranger and duppin are pushing.

Look, either I pushed it or I didn't. Make up your mind. The answer is yes-I-did, but no-I'm-not.

[Ranger]

i imagine at this point if Brun is town (which i think is the case), the scum team didn't really give a shit about which wagon went through to a lynch. both Brun and Trivium had a fair amount of suspicion on them iirc

I ask you again. If Brunneis and Trivium were both town, then where are the scum?

The reasonable answer is distributed between the two wagons equally. This is something I can see as possible. (Again, not pushing Brunneis, contrary to your claim. My push has always been on Errant and more recently, Persivul.)

The follow-through question is, if both wagons were on town, how did they form? This, again, comes back to Errantparabola's L-1 wagon.
Makara switched from the Errant wagon to the Trivium wagon. This fits with the pattern of scum who are coming off of a bus-vote, onto a wagon on town.

[Ranger]

I have a further comment on Persivul.

He was just scum with me in Blitz 1.
My play is similar here to my play in that game. I don't do meta, but unless Persivul shares my belief...by all rights,

he should be scumreading me

.
Instead, Persivul instantly listed my fluffless "focused reads" as town, when that is exactly how I played in Blitz 1 as his scumbuddy.

[Ranger]

This is my iso that game.
This is my iso this game. They are pretty similar, yet...

I went into this with low expectations because I believe Ranger has played poorly since my entrance. But, this was the best ISO I've seen yet. Very little fluff. Maintaining focus on primary targets but unlike others was pressuring some secondary suspicions as well. It was so consistently solid that I don't have specifics to point out.

Conclusion: town

I don't see how a Persivul who has seen my play there and sees the similarity here calls me town.

[Ranger]

it looked more like she was simply going with the flow, in that she started to apply pressure after a majority of people had done so

This fundamentally goes against my beliefs as a player, town or scum. My reasons will always be my own. If I'm scum applying pressure to someone, I want to be the one applying pressure to them. If I am town applying pressure to someone, it is because I want to apply pressure to them. I will let majority influence my vote particularly as town: if I strongly suspect two players and only one of them is being wagoned, I will vote the player that is being wagoned unless I have reason not to.

I was the first to apply pressure to Errant, and only one to have consistently done so. I have applied pressure to Brunneis, and did so consistently for nearly the entire first half of D2. I switched that pressure to consistently be on Persivul since then, and have not let up. The only one of those which could

possibly

fit the profile is Brunneis, but my pressure on Brunneis actually started

after

the peak of the Brunneis wagon. In other words, when the wagon was in its decline. Check the votes if you don't believe me, but you already know it's true.

I am not an amateur. More than any other thing, I resent the thought of a player thinking I would be stupid enough to play like rookie scum.

moreover, she's continued to post no fucking reasoning whatsoever for scum reading them.

Yes, and? I'm perfectly capable of fabricating reasoning when I choose to do so. You've seen my reluctance to release reasoning first-hand before, so why are you bringing it up here?

does this look like town who had Brun as a top scum read most of the game

Of course not, because Brunneis wasn't. Errant was my top scumread D1. Errant was my top scumread at the beginning of D2. Persivul was my top scumread for the latter half of D2. Brunneis was only my top scumread in the period between Errant and Persivul on D2.

[Ranger]

i think this is specifically because she's worried if she *does* elaborate i'll point out why it's wrong (as i've been needling her over it pretty hard) and it'll make her look bad

OR, I just don't like giving my reasons out and don't really care if you like or don't like them.

she's not engaging in more depth about the Brun read because she knows she can't without looking like obvious scum

God I swear if you weren't confirmed town you would be my largest scumread because of this tunnel on me that you've, consistently, held throughout your entire entrance into the game off of things that

by all rights you should know better than

.

i don't see myself voting either of those today

Then I don't see town winning.

why couldn't it just be scum moving off a ... town ... wagon onto another town wagon?

Their reason for this would be...what? Opportunism?

i would still like a more in-depth explanation for WHY you're (or were) reading Brun as scum

I didn't like much of their early posting, though it was passable enough that they were a minor scumread compared to my others. Then came that page (22, was it?), where their walls contained some

ridiculously

scummy stuff (I'd have to go back and actually check to remember what, since I don't exactly write these things down in notes), particularly around the middle of the page if I recall correctly, and they instantly shot up in the scum list. Combine that with the fact that all the players suspecting them were proven town in some form or another (save GrayFox, who wasn't groupscum), and VCA heavily incriminated them, and the conclusion was scum. I'm not as convinced anymore.

why Errant is scum outside of the wagon etc.

There isn't anything town about Errant, for a start. Most of Errant's posting is a gigantic, net-null. There isn't anything bad about it, yes, but there's nothing good present. This means that what I have is limited to what I've already said. You're asking for more, but none exists because none COULD exist. Do you want me to lie? Do you want me to pull quotes up from throughout Errant's iso that I

don't actually believe are scummy

and stretch them so I claim they are? I've already explained the read. I think Errant's early play was indicative of scum. When the wagon shot up to L-1, I thought it was a good wagon, but the wagon mysteriously and suspiciously dissolved, forming the Brunneis and Trivium wagons. For Brunneis to be town, AND Errant to be town, would require that every single major wagon on D1 was on town. And I do not believe that.

but as it is i don't agree.

What don't you agree about? That my play is similar to that game? Same rough amount of posts in the same timeframe (lylo), same rough length in the iso, same rough level of contribution and explanation. What do you see that is so different in this game compared to that game? And if you see it, then how does it relate to Persivul's comment on me?

[Ranger]

this reads like you're deliberately overreacting in order to get town read as "frustrated town".

If anything I'm UNDERREACTING TO YOUR BS.

There are words in the English language that I want to say of you.

They are words that I would say if not for the fact that they have no place in this game.

will respond to the rest of the post later, if i decide to

And there you have it.

You're not reading me.

You've already decided that I'm scum.

And are now writing everything I say to be scum.

[Ranger]

holy jesus fuck calm the fuck down.

Oh I'm sure if I were scum faking a reaction in order to be read as frustrated town I could.

But MAYBE I'm ACTUALLY JUST FRUSTRATED TOWN right now dealing with you being in non-stop, constant tunnel mode.

Name something from me you see as town.

[Ranger]

you don't have enough faith to think that i'm willing to reconsider my stance even when i'm _explicitly backing off_?

I didn't see any backing off, there. But if you say it's there, then I'm willing to trust that you're being honest and you are. My apologies.

[Ranger]

I'm doing a reread right now from the beginning. 10 from Errant felt forced to me at the time, rather than the more natural-sounding 5, 6, 7, and 8. (Also, 23 by duppin is a good example of a town RVS post, where he was clearly having fun. I'm almost positive 30 was him continuing the troll.) Then, we get Errant's 12, which also felt unnatural to me.

My initial Brunneis suspicion started with 20--note how Brunneis is asking about my vote on Errant, as well as Errant's vote on Makara. This struck me as a very likely scumbuddy interaction. (Yes, I know, preflip associatives.) I also had a bad vibe from 41, though I've long-since forgotten the exact reason why. Similarly, in 67, I

think

the suspicious part that caught my eye was the first three paragraphs, covering Errant and makara.

When it came to Errant's 24, it felt too serious. 47 is ironic in that I actually felt Errant was themselves overresponding. 71 on a reread does come across as forced to me, so we can add that to the list. (I don't think it was already there.)

[Ranger]

i do not see how any town player sees the above as scum.

Well, I don't, but I don't particularly see it as town. Possibly-town, I suppose, but if I were to rate that post, it'd be nulltown.

[Ranger]

120 by Maxwell

might

be scum, difficult to tell for sure.

Errantparabola - (4) goodmorning, Ranger, Makara, Brunneis

Adding 141 (town) and 142 (town), we get L-1 which looks like:

Errantparabola - (6) goodmorning, Ranger, Makara, Brunneis, The Fire Hermit, Trivium

The Fire Hermit hopped off immediately, suspicious of Trivium. goodmorning also came off, saying Errant mounted a reasonable defense. Brunneis hopped off with no reasoning attached. They go from being suspicious of Varsoon in 167 (in part thanks to Varsoon following the IC) to themselves joining the wagon he's on in 169. This doesn't reflect well on Brunneis. 177 is Errant defending Brunneis, which also doesn't look good. Makara joins in the Brunneis defense in 203.

Worth noting though is that posting-wise, Brunneis at around page 11 doesn't look like scum. So conflicted feelings.

[Ranger]

280 by makara shows a contradiction with 203: in the former, makara is questioning Brunneis defense, whereas in the latter earlier post, makara is questioning the Brunneis offense--what caused the change in attitude? I can't see it.

292 is another potential scum post from MaxwellPuckett. They notes suspicion on Errant, but doesn't pursue it. (Do I do singular verbs or plural verbs for They as a pronoun?) They lists instead Trivium and goodmorning, with a minor bit still at Brunneis, hopping wagons from the Brunneis wagon which was slightly stalled onto the Trivium wagon that was forming. (Hmm. HMMM.)

In hindsight, 301 by Errant is pinging me a bit, too.

And I'd rather either goodmorning or Trivium, than Brunneis

Yet Errant, who Maxwell wasn't liking the posts of, is absent...

If I had to guess a scumteam, on page 13, it'd be {Errant, makara/Persivul, MaxwellPuckett}.

[Ranger]

In your desire to frame me you just admitted that this is your scum game.

Not exactly. I said my play here is similar to my play in that game where I was scum. I don't think I actually

have

a "scum game". At least, not yet. I simply don't have enough recent experience to say for sure. (Three completed games on here, and two on my home site, with only one from each being a scum game.) But this does not invalidate my point: the play between the games is similar. (I was scum there, and I know I'm town here, but from an

outside

perspective, someone should think the similarity is suspicious.) So why was I a townread in this game when in that game I was scum?

So to answer: not backtracking, because this game

is

similar to my completed scum game. As me being town shows, it's not my scum game, but to you, it should

look

like it is, and that you say it's different makes no sense to me.

Ranger, do you still think duppin is posting strongly as town?

Very much so, yes. The more I read your engagement with him, the more I become convinced that you are in a townVtown fight.

At this point, I don't see myself voting outside of {Persivul, Errantparabola, MaxwellPuckett}.

[Ranger]

Klingon's immaturity is icing on top of the cake for why that slot should be lynched.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Jussayin'.

Think why this is D3, and how you're still alive right now.

i think i'm going to

vote: maxwell

i would like people to comment on whether they would vote here today and why.

This will make you unvote, but:
VOTE: MaxwellPuckett.
That should answer your question.

[Ranger]

RANGER BTW I REALLY WANT YOU TO INTERACT WITH ME TODAY.

Well, that's gonna be hard given,

Ranger, I actually don't have a question for you?

This. :P

[Ranger]

Little concerned how quickly I'm being townread while possible scum is towning it up?

This is a town post. Scum do

not

post like that.

Ranger pumped in a bunch of early-game analysis - which seemed to get Pers' attention - but stopped after that.

I'm sorry, I wanted to continue, but I got exhausted. Another reason I've considered retiring from mafia games, they take a lot out of you if you let them. I was at my limit. When I have more energy, I'm hoping to resume, though I'm not sure I'll have recovered my strength in time before deadline.

Ranger, where did this Max vote come from exactly?

Explicitly because of Ika's vote. If you, Ika, or, frankly, anyone, voted Persivul, I'd shift my vote there. Same for voting Errantparabola. The more I read and reread, the more I become convinced that's the correct scumteam combo. I'd vote any of them to make my statement clear.

A better question would be - what about Duppin VS Me seems like a TvT to you?

Easy. Your posting, both heads, looked like town. But your points against duppin didn't hold water. duppin's posting looks like town. And while his stance is reasonable, ultimately, I don't think his scumread on you is correct. Thus, TvT.

[Ranger]

@Ranger You spent all of Day1 and the first bit of Day2 voting for Errant. Please refresh our memories and tell us why. Do you still suspect Errant? Why or why not?

Iso me. 49, 233, 259, 287, 411, 459, 467, 474, 514, 515, 516, 557, 570, 591, 701, 775, 862, 928, 934, 936, 945, 948, 949, 1024, and 1036.

Maybe I should've linked you to my posts that

don't

mention Errant in a negative light; that'd probably have been shorter.

[Ranger]

Whats stopping acum from making the same statement?

A scum player, who has been at risk of being the lynch for a solid two day phases, does

not

, the minute the pressure loosens on them,

question why the pressure has loosened

.

Also ranger what do you think about my thoughts on everyone else?

They did nothing. Not town, not scum, just existing.

[Ranger]

MOD: If you haven't already replaced me, Emergency V/LA.

I'd have announced it BEFORE having been without internet for 48 hours, but the thing about weather-induced access issues is that they are weather induced and not exactly something that I could have planned for.

Gah, this is annoying. The blasted power's STILL not back, even two freakin' days later, and the 'net I AM borrowing is limited and PAINFULLY slow.

Back on page 43, will talk when I return.

[Ranger]

Right, so my internet's finally, FINALLY back, but I hope you understand that I have a live outside of mafia that is

also

affected by no power for four days, so it'll be a while before I get back into the swing of things. I'll do what I can here and there, getting caught up as I can, but it'll take me a good two or three days before I've fully recovered; consider that the full length of my V/LA. (So, through the weekend, basically.)

[Ranger]

We have 5 town. So 2 town in a 5 person lynchpool.

I'm town, pretty sure duppin is town, and I'm progressively more sure that you're town too.

So that's 3/6.

Leaving: {Persivul, Errantparabola, MaxwellPuckett}.

Coincidentally, my lynch pool has looked something like that since yesterday! The only addition is that MaxwellPuckett is there, originally by POE. (Errant and Persivul were always scum.) Now I have reason beyond POE to think they're scum, but that was a later addition to why Maxwell was there.

Do you seriously think a scum player, when the pressure loosens on them and they question why, is going to be afraid of people suddenly going "You know what, you're right. Back to pressuring you!"

Would they be afraid of it, no. Would it happen, probably, yes. It's also basic psychology 101. A town player when buddied questions the alignment of the person buddying them. A scum player when buddied sucks up and takes the buddying. (If I'm right about duppin being town, he reinforces this, too: I have, very clearly, buddied him, and yet he has consistently held me as null/scumish by virtue of thinking you're the town in Errant/Ranger.) Town players, uninformed, question the motive. Scum players, informed, manipulate the existing motive.

Simple.

Why did they not look like Scum?

They felt like natural RVS posting to me.

What made you say "everyone would assume it wasn't serious"?

If I said I had a serious scumread on a player who

hadn't posted

in the game yet

on page one

, would you take me seriously?

...Yeah, my point exactly.

[Ranger]

What do you mean by my points "didn't hold water"?

Exactly that: you made a giant wall of nothing. Ika said as much, remember? I'm restating that same fact. The wall you did basically was a whole bunch of nothing. Does that mean it was worthless, no--it was reason to increase my growing townread on you because while fundamentally

wrong

, the case looked incredibly town-motivated. But was it at all, in any way shape or form a point against duppin, also no.

I keep looking at these posts and I'm not exactly sure how you're not mentioning Errant in a negative light?

...Because that's every post where I

do

mention Errant in negative light. It is also, by no coincidence, the majority of my iso. Thus, my comment on why it may have been shorter to show the posts where I don't mention Errant in negative light.

why you didn't answer Klingon(the other head) on whether you STILL suspect Errant or not.

A gigantic (okay, maybe it's only one-line when viewed, but typed, that was a solid two-paragraphs' worth of text, mostly coding) post filled to the brim of links where I'm explicitly calling Errant suspicious wasn't a tip-off?

some people have been interpreting anything I do as scummy, or just ignoring it.

I realize this statement may be Persivul speaking on a playstyle-perspective, but if so, it is an INCREDIBLY pro-scum playstyle. If your reaction to everything you say being interpreted as being scummy or ignored is to lurk and do nothing, you are playing like scum who wish to avoid the spotlight. A town player shouldn't care about being scummy or be apathetic about being ignored; they should

use these

: take the spotlight to showcase reads/reasons, and show frustration at not being listened to.

I'd call this a scum response if not for the fact that I can see Persivul holding this stance as town. But it's a pro-scum stance regardless of his alignment.

[Ranger]

When Persivul comes in the game, Ranger jumps on the alternate lynch proposal made by Max on Pers. I find it interesting that Ranger, being so adamant for a Brunneis lynch, jumps on this wagon and puts Persivul at her top scumread.

Not an accurate representation of chronology.

I don't remember what the actual chronology

was

, so I'd have to go back and check (don't have the time for that at the moment), but I know that whatever it was,

this

wasn't it.

"I want to apply enough pressure so that the bussing is genuine, but not enough pressure so that Brunneis gets lynched."

This

is

my preferred scum strategy. It's not an iron-fast rule, but I will call my scumbuddy/ies scum without actually voting them.

Problem, though: other than Brunneis, who fits the pattern for this? I'd do it for both scum, not just the one. I've voted Brunneis, Persivul, AND MaxwellPuckett, with intent to lynch them each time.

Two. "I want to apply pressure to Brunneis when other people are pressuring Brunneis so that I don't stand out if Brunneis flips."

This is amateur-level scum play. Smart-level scum play would be, when seeing the pressure on Brunneis, to DEFEND them, so that when they flip town, I get town credit for my efforts.

Obvious fake townslip is obvious.

By the way...if you

want

players who are, in Errant's words, "I want to apply enough pressure so that the bussing is genuine, but not enough pressure so that my partner(s) get(s) lynched.", take a look at Errant's interactions with Persivul, Persivul's interactions with Errant, both of their interactions with MaxwellPuckett, and MaxwellPuckett's interactions with both of them.

All three of them fit this exact profile. You can check for yourself (triple-iso all three), or wait for me to give you the links later. But it's there.

[Ranger]

this causes me to empathize p strongly with Ranger's POV in her one post directed towards Persi D2 that I initially thought looked like scum deliberately overreacting.

this kind of argumentation is seriously annoying.

Now you know. <3

I just saw Ranger going VLA... sigh.

No, I'm actually announcing an end-date to my already-existing V/LA. I got caught up here, but my attention will probably be elsewhere (not in this game) over the weekend. I'll be around just often enough if we need to change lynch targets (any of Errant/Maxwellslot/Persivul), and to answer any emergency questions, but that's probably all the time I can spare.

[Ranger]

ftr I do think Persi and maxwell are scum partners,

As do I.

also, Troy's entrance is a scum entrance

Agreed.

I'm more interested in which one out of those 2 is more likely to be the RB. I have no fucking idea how to distinguish between mafia goons and mafia PRs, though.

If I had to GUESS, I'd say Troy/Maxwell is the roleblocker. As the most important scum member to stay alive, they are the member who needs to most stay under the radar and have the least attention drawn to them. Maxwell was slightly more bus-happy than Persivul/makara or Errant are/were, and similarly, Persivul/makara and Errant haven't been pushing Maxwell/Troy as hard as they have each other.

[Ranger]

So I don't think I have anything to add right now.

[Ranger]

the only thing that has me somewhat worried is that Persi has sat back and done fuck all when it's fairly obvious the lynch is either Troy or him

This is why Troy is likely the roleblocker: because if a scum has to die, Persivul

wants

it to be him.

[Ranger]

Well, I know I'm town, so the only way that we could have lost is if either Brunneis is scum, or duppin is scum and only two scum needed to be on the lynch.
I don't see either of those as being true. (Especially not the second.) So, yeah, Troy is scum.

Errant and Persivul bussed.
Sadly, that probably means I was wrong about Troy being the roleblocker. :(

[Ranger]

VOTE: Errantparabola.

[Ranger]

I don't know why the hell scum-Ranger would 'bus' the scum PR partially D2 and D3

I wouldn't.

I just don't know what to make with "I don't really have anything to add."

Well, it's true. Errant's confirmed scum, Persivul's almost as good as.

[Ranger]

Yeah, really just waiting for the lynch.

[Ranger]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand...
VOTE: Titus.
Pretty sure that's game.

[Ranger]

Nice to finally have this game over!

It was the first game I started on this site, and yet, here I am finishing it

way

after many other games I've been in.

I'll have more thoughts after the official flip.

[Ranger]

I think that, overall, this was a really, really good town game for us all.

About me:

This might have been my first game on site, but honestly it's probably also my best game. I named one scum right off the bat and never let my vote leave Errant all of D1. My reads weren't so great the first half of D2, but then something clicked, and it was all there: I correctly called GrayFoxx a serial killer, I correctly called makara/Persivul scum, I maintained my Errant read throughout the whole game, and somewhere down the line, MaxwellPuckett got added in. Then, on D3, I did associatives that showed Maxwell as the most likely to be the roleblocker and

that

was right, too, so I'm happy with what I did. I do regret a few things, though. Mainly, while the above accuracy is true, I did not play a perfect game: I had a silly early goodmorning suspicion (which I dropped when I realized I was being stupid and pursuing a power role), and then the incorrect Trivium/Brunneis suspicion, which continued into D2. So, good game, probably my best game ever, but not perfect.

Brunneis:

I feel like you did a really excellent job of handling the pressure you were placed under. During D1 and D2, you were significantly pushed by the majority of the playerlist, yet you managed to use that time in the spotlight to push your beliefs, and I think that was immensely pro-town of you. You managed to take what would otherwise have been negative attention and turn it into something which made you obviously town, and that is very impressive, especially considering how persistent the IC was in trying to lynch you. However, I would say that both heads of you were a little bit...tunnely. (I know, pot, kettle.) It took you a lot longer than it could have to start piecing the puzzle pieces together, so if I have advice to you two, it would be to keep a more open mind.

duppin:

I don't really have much to say. Your posting wasn't necessarily the strongest in-thread, however, you were raising good points and making solid posting enough to be rated as my highest uncleared player, so great job there.

goodmorning:

While I think your casual attitude wasn't exactly an issue, I think you drew too much attention to yourself when you said you weren't going to be lynched this game. It was true, but it'd have been nice to have gotten that cop shot off rather than see you just get nightkilled immediately. Remember, you can't rely on there being doctors in this setup, and even if you could, Varsoon shows why even then that might not work. So, good job getting killed early, but...next time, try to make it N2 not N1? :P

GrayFoxx:

Honestly, I think you did a fine job of scumhunting, which is why I didn't think you were groupscum, but you were definitely not the same passionate GrayFoxx I was introduced to, and I think that's why you got lynched in the end. I think if you had been more active and pushed harder, your serial killer game would have made you a severe threat.

ika:

Good job holding the early game and having some fairly solid early reads, here! It would have been nice to see you in the late-game, though, since there were many times where pie could have used you.

pie:

You might not have held the best reads in the middle of the game, but you did have a solid read on Brunneis, which was vital for turning the tide in the game. Throw in your late-game analysis killing it, and you definitely are among the candidates for town MVP. My only gripe is that you were basically absent from the early-game; it would have been good to have you there the whole game.

The Fire Hermit:

I think that you two need to consider some serious tweaks to your playstyle. Your drive to get a lynch is something that is admirable, but your stubborn unwillingness to compromise almost cost the town the game multiple times, particularly in mylo when you were pushing Brunneis. I would advise you think about why the scum left you, confirmed town, alive the whole game: that Brunneis push was helpful to them. I feel that the simplest change would be to broaden your focus to having reads on the entire playerbase. There's nothing wrong with focusing on a read, but focusing exclusively on ONE read tends to do more harm than good. That being said, you did a good job of pushing when you

did

push (albeit wrong), especially on D1, and ultimately, you DID end up getting over the Brunneis scumread, so you do have a good sense of when you've reached your limit. Keep it in mind, and I think you can both improve.

Trivium:

I would avoid sabotaging your towngame for the sake of your scum game. You should always be striving to improve both at all times. That was one detail I remembered when reading about you. I don't think I have much advice for you given how soon you died and the reasoning behind it. (Mainly, deadline, follow the IC, with a side of scum: Errant, makara, and MaxwellPuckett all pushed you, the latter two with votes.) I'd maybe be able to come up with small refinements (for instance, not quoting the entire wall when quoting a post), but mostly I just think you got unlucky, and that in another game, you'd probably be fine.

Varsoon:

I think you did an excellent job at leading the town come D2. You took a situation that was bad and turned it around; without you, the game might not have been a town win. You managed to place the scum in a precarious position, even though they had blocked you, boxing them in to the lethal VT claims they were forced to make, which we were able to work with from there. Also, while scum may have stopped it, good job protecting the scum nightkill and also town cop.

Scum as a whole:

I think you made a mistake when you killed Varsoon over Ika. Ika had, at that point in the game, a 1/8 chance of blocking a kill. They were also a long-term threat which would always exist, so taking them out early would have been better. In contrast, Varsoon had a 1/2 chance of stopping your kill (much higher odds), and you could

always

stop a kill on him. I think that you might have won if you had blocked Varsoon and killed Ika. However, that said, I understand the logic behind picking off Varsoon, and your actions were otherwise right on point: you nailed the cop N1, you stopped the doctor from saving the cop, and you managed to lynch the serial killer D2.

I also felt that you ran the risk of what happened: an all-or-nothing gambit where you were gambling on none of you being discovered, which backfired: once you became suspects as individuals, relational tells helped seal the deal, given your distancing-yet-never-bussing until it was too late. When you finally

did

bus, it was not only too late to earn town credit, but also counter-productive, given that Troy would have required

every

town player to lynch and...ended up only having half of that.

Errantparabola:

If I had advice for your scum game, it would be to do what you did late game, constantly: give content, and continue giving content. You can't really do much to deal with a player who is scumreading you effectively off of gut (which I was), but my scumread on you wouldn't have been damaging if it was just me holding the scumread. After your severe drop in activity, you instantly entered the eyes of the rest of the town as a suspect, so keep up the scumhunting.

makara:

When you come back, I would advise to stay more active overall. You did a good job staying under the radar for D1, but on D2, you entered into the POE pool fairly low. That could have been stopped if you were actively giving content, I think, which hindered you.

MaxwellPuckett:

You did a very good job staying on the positive side of null, being the last scum exposed (and technically only after you replaced out). Like Errant and makara, I think that increased activity may have saved you, and if push came to shove, you could have bussed your scumbuddies. As the scum roleblocker, you needed to live in order to give your team a chance, since once you were gone, they ended up being unable to win.

Persivul:

You did a great job drawing attention away from MaxwellPuckett, almost getting yourself lynched over your roleblocker, but you made a lot of small misplays in various spots, contradictions, jumping to extreme conclusions, and generally feeling insincere except when it came to rage about things that weren't alignment-indicative. I think if you had played more aggressively rather than passively, you might have gotten a more favorable result.

...Also, as has been said: replacing out was a dick move.

Titus:

Good spirit for replacing into a no-win scenario!

Troy:

If you're going to replace into a game...you should actually replace into the game and play it. Your team, desperately,

desperately

, needed you active, and when you didn't deliver, that was the turning point which allowed the town to win.

Quaroath:

Excellent modding, well-flavored game with a votecount nearly every page. My only complaint: sometimes it was at the bottom of the page; you can always fluff poetry to bump! :P Other than that, you did great.

[Ranger]

sorry for all the shit I gave you @Ranger, you were p much on point.

Thanks for the compliment! And it's alright, ultimately, you managed to figure it out. If I had to give credit to the two players I think most shaped the town victory this game, the first would be Varsoon; the second would be you.