Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[Kop]

/confirm

[Kop]

VOTE: Texcat

I am here.

[Kop]

Guess I'll reveal. Alwaysinnocent was my other scum read. Hard to explain, but he gives off a basic "fitting in" feel rather than a "looking for scum" one. I know it's early but that's when we all have Role PMs freshest in our mind.

Lol. Yeah, well, you can't do much scumhunting yet in this stage. I have a few town-leans: shaddowz and Lowell, but you can't seriously expect to really be able to hunt scum now.

My scumhunting game will gradually pick up as the game progresses and more information becomes available. You will see.

Yes you can. You scum hunt from the game start, and game finish. You make information, get information, use information.

I am using information that I have gotten from reading your ISO, and what I gather from this information, you are trying to look actively scum hunting, when most of it is just filled with random votes, and trying to look busy.

And that final comment, that is an obvious statement that anybody can make, it's whether you will actually back this up is another matter. And it's one of those comments that comes across as saying keep me alive, I will show you what I can do.

[Kop]

I am using information that I have gotten from reading your ISO, and what I gather from this information, you are trying to look actively scum hunting, when most of it is just filled with random votes, and trying to look busy.

This seems like an absurd accusation this early. What you just listed is like the definition of the first three to five pages of most games.

It wasn't purely an accusation, it was a statement that any information can be used, whether it be a random vote to engaging in questions. It's not a case of waiting till later when his scum hunting may improve as more information comes available. It's an obvious fact that more information will be available later which will obviously help scum hunting, but right now, we are scum hunting regardless of how much information, is available.

Yes, day one, ends up on a town lynch, majority of the time, there is the odd few occasions where we actually lynch scum, I agree, but I'd like to think we're scum hunting.

[Kop]

Talking about scumhunting, Kop. You didn't even seem to be doing anything until I voted for you, calling you to come out and play. It didn't take you long to respond, though. Were you lurking?

No. I have been working. I am unfortunately a delivery driver during the night into morning, so can't get on much when I'm at work.

I do most of my posting on a laptop as I hate doing it from a phone.

[Kop]

I am using information that I have gotten from reading your ISO, and what I gather from this information, you are trying to look actively scum hunting, when most of it is just filled with random votes, and trying to look busy.

And that final comment, that is an obvious statement that anybody can make, it's whether you will actually back this up is another matter. And it's one of those comments that comes across as saying keep me alive, I will show you what I can do.

I'd like to think that too, but is this your first RVS? Did you truly expect everyone to be gung-ho scumhunting from page 3?

This is not my first RVS. I wouldn't class myself as a veteran in mafia games but I have been playing probably over a year and in a lot of games. I've seen scum caught once or twice from random votes and I've seen a few games where we have caught scum on day one.

I am not fully expecting to see people going gung-ho but I'd like to see scum hunting to an extent and using the available time we have to at least draw some sort of connections.

[Kop]

I will get to this tomorrow. Too tired and I've just got back from the hospital.

[Kop]

Seriously, figuring out who looks townie and then lynching someone who doesn't is the single most effective way to find scum, especially early. People make the mistake of "looking for people doing something scummy", but that's backwards; scum usually look null-ish if they're at all competent. So instead you need to look for people who are doing something townie and then lynch someone who's not.

I completely disagree with this, this seems so backwards but if you truly believe this it should be helpful in understanding your actions. Game theory is not alignment indictive, I know, but I'm almost willing to make an exception for this...

how is it opportunistic?

I'm an easy target.

I asked you a question and you answered with a question about my question. That's scum misdirection. So do you feel like answering now?

He is actively lurking. That concerns me.

But isn't he V/LA? How is that actively lurking?

Most of this game, up until your latest vote, you've gone after the lurkers, which tells me your trying to go after the ones that are less likely to interact with you, than going after ones that are actively in this thread who are more likely to react to your votes.

After reading back, the people that are unsettling are, yourself and Lucky.

Lucky doesn't like a vote on him, and thinks by showing he is active that warrants that unvote.

I don't want you to move your vote, I don't really care about that. My concern is that you parked your vote on a player who was a then lurker so you wouldn't have to take a stance on anyone else. Now that I'm here and active,

if you truly believe me to be scum then I've achieved my goal.

You're not hiding your vote.

Am I reading this right, you want to be scum read, is that your goal?

[Kop]

That first quote shouldn't be there.

[Kop]

Lucky doesn't like a vote on him, and thinks by showing he is active that warrants that unvote.

I don't want you to move your vote, I don't really care about that. My concern is that you parked your vote on a player who was a then lurker so you wouldn't have to take a stance on anyone else. Now that I'm here and active,

if you truly believe me to be scum then I've achieved my goal.

You're not hiding your vote.

Am I reading this right, you want to be scum read, is that your goal?

[/quote]
You're not reading it right. I do not care that the vote was on me. I care that the reason behind the vote was flimsy, I wanted him to either do something real with his vote or express a real reason to keep it on me.

@ABR on this same subject. stating opinions and reads =/= voting people.[/quote]

What is your goal? You stated if he believes your scum, then you achieved your goal. What does that mean?

[Kop]

The thing I don't understand that Lowell mentioned, is how rofl is a strong town read, ahead of anybody else. I mean I've seen the posts from rofl and I wouldn't class that confidence to be a strong town read, I'm reading them from town POV but I wouldn't put it high up on my list.

Just had a read through his ISO, and some points that stand out to me, makes me want to replace Lucky and replace him with Lowell into my scum reads.

His second post into the thread, he claimed BBT was town but took several posts to actually state why. Early game tells me, especially with there not being a lot of interaction or serious posts, it is hard to say someone is town with such confidence that Lowell did, on this occasion. I have never town read someone so early, even if some of there early posting shows town points.

He appears to bandwagon three wagons for no reason of his own, and hasn't really added to why he is on them, apart from pressure he claims on the AI wagon, who he came around to being town. What has changed since post #184 to post #437 where you are now voting for him? Claiming 'pressure'. You've barely mentioned him in between those posts. And my opinion, this is striking me because the wind seems to be going in AI's direction, your joining it.

The other point I disagree with, is when you joined the YOS wagon, you claimed 'the best way to avoid a lynch is to stop talking'.

If you don't want to be lynched, the best way is to prove your worth, to show why you shouldn't be lynched. And if someone is put under pressure by questions, deliberately ignoring them, is going to get you lynched. It might just be me that thinks that, but I think keeping quiet, isn't the key to avoid being lynched.

UNVOTE: Texcat

VOTE: Lowell

[Kop]

Right now, my two main suspects are Lowell, and AlwaysInnocent, Lucky2you lingering in third.

I did have a quick glance over the Yos Vs BBT, I'd struggle to figure out who would be scum in that situation, because it feels town vs town. But I will go over the whole thing again in a few hours, once I've done all my bits and bobs.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

Misrep of Lowell's post. Third on the bandwagon.

How did I misrep Lowells post, I didn't understand the backfire bit at first glance.

I assumed or read it in the manner that the backfire bit added nothing much more to the comment of not speaking much. But reading it back, I now understand what it means, I read it in the manner of him telling about the lynch, and not actually talking about Yos, or possibly telling what Yos to do.

Now over reading the whole thing, that comment I may have taken out of context, but I wasn't scum reading him purely on that post.

The thing I don't understand that Lowell mentioned, is how rofl is a strong town read, ahead of anybody else. I mean I've seen the posts from rofl and I wouldn't class that confidence to be a strong town read, I'm reading them from town POV but I wouldn't put it high up on my list.

What is scummy about Rofl?

I didn't specially say he was scummy. I said that I have seen that similar play before, but I wouldn't put it as a strong town read.

I have seen that play from town, and I've also seen it from scum, however the one from scum, was slightly different play but similar style. If that makes sense?

As for Lowell, okay, here's something.

@mod

I'll be away from noon tomorrow until Monday morning. I may or may not have internet access during that time (I will try to check in at least once or twice, but don't have a smartphone so it's sort of a pain in the ass).

Can I proxy my vote while I'm away?

~.No <.< ~.Zar

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

I don't know what proxy vote means either, but he did say he was V/LA at the time and wanted to proxy his vote. I wouldn't say that scum wouldn't necessarily do that. It could come from either town or scum.

I see a lot of comments that say scum wouldn't do this or that, in games of mafia, anything is absolutely possible, whether it be from town and scum.

alwaysinnocent, always following onto bandwagons, never leading

Here's something else.
Counterwagons come and go while the AI-wagon is there. Does this tell us anything? Hm? He? Huh?

VOTE: Kop
Misrep of Lowell's post.

Texcat is town. And I don't like Kop's posts either.[/quote]

What's not to like? Let's talk.

[Kop]

Kop

- If AI and Lowell are both scum reads, why join the smaller wagon of Lowell?

BBT

- Outside of the lists and disagreeing on how things works, what are you seeing that's scummy about Yos that it's worth having your vote parked there?

Yos

- Basically the same question. There does seem to be some dancing around by BBT, but is it enough to have your vote parked there?

I like how Lowell came in and completely ignored everything directed at him, again. [/sarcasm]

I'd have hoped that Lowell getting more votes, it would bring him out and to show why he shouldn't be scum read, ahead of AI and Lucky.

[Kop]

I assumed that the vote he was intending to make was either to put it there and leave it, or give it to the moderator to insert into the vote count.

I didn't know that proxy a vote was to be given to another player to put it in for him.

[Kop]

What's not to like? Let's talk.

Eg.

If you don't want to be lynched, the best way is to prove your worth, to show why you shouldn't be lynched. And if someone is put under pressure by questions, deliberately ignoring them, is going to get you lynched. It might just be me that thinks that, but I think keeping quiet, isn't the key to avoid being lynched.

Is pigeon poop. Your case in the same post is long but contains little information.
I've already mentioned the first part of your 470. As for its second part, it looks like you leave the possibility open for jumping on Yos if it's needed.

Who says I'm going to vote for Yos? I said I was going to go over the whole back and forth again, because when I first read it as it was happening, It felt town vs town. I would struggle to find who would possibly be scum in that whole back and forth.

How is keeping quiet gets you lynched, pigeon poop?

If I Ignore your whole post, and not bother responding to it, is going to end up you either chasing me or scum reading me for it, and then end up wanting to drive a wagon onto me because your scum reading me for ignoring you.

I'd have hoped that Lowell getting more votes, it would bring him out and to show why he shouldn't be scum read, ahead of AI and Lucky.

???
Gut says this is fake, but I can't put my finger on anything in it.

What's fake about it?

[Kop]

Catching up.

[Kop]

Prod dodge. At work right now. Will catch up this time as I won't be distracted like the last time I said catching up.

[Kop]

Be a hour or two before I get to this.

[Kop]

I've had a quick over read of the whole BBT vs Yos, and to be honest, my total opinion of it all, it's a lot of bollicks. It is picking arguments for the sake of picking arguments and hoping to pin the slightest thing on each other. I agree with what Yos is saying that we find who is being the most town, and narrow it down in that sense. As it kind of makes sense, if we were to scum read the people being scummy, the list would be a lot greater than the people being town, generally speaking. I just don't see the problem that BBT picked upon it, and why he has made such a big deal from it, even though he did say he agreed with it.

However, I still stand by the fact that it's town vs town, it was a simple coming together about something small, it just imploded from there. I don't think either are scum.

[Kop]

So I'm assuming that rules out AI possibly being scum. Or he could be using that course of action to throw off the suspicion, but I think that would be hard to pull of and maintain the act the whole game.

[Kop]

I'm here. Reading back.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop

He's cum.

Oh shyt.
Really sorry, Kop, I didn't want to offend you.
I wanted to say "He's

s

cum", I was drunk last night.

I think that's been the worst typo ever made.

I've been called many things, but never that.

That's why I try to steer clear when I've had a good drink. Don't worry about it.

So I'm assuming that rules out AI possibly being scum. Or he could be using that course of action to throw off the suspicion, but I think that would be hard to pull of and maintain the act the whole game.

Using what? All he did was say there are 3 mafia at most, which is accurate and everyone is townreading him for it now. Since when does saying something about the setup make someone town for somehow NOT being aware of the setup? This whole thing is complete nonsense and you seem like someone who just skimmed and agreed rather than thinking critically.

Yes, I understand what your saying, and that we shouldn't rule it out, but it was the posts afterwards that gives the assumption.

I still think that BBT is the best lynch. His tunnel of Yos is scummy. The resistance to his wagon increases my scum read on him. If he were town, scum would have jumped on his wagon and he'd be dead by now. Lynching BBT would resolve the situation and give us a ton of info.

My other scum reads are Kop, and now an OMGUS read of KMD.

Lynch for info? I know information is good, but I wouldn't lynch someone just to resolve an issue that shouldn't really be an issue.

If we lynch BBT, and if he flips town, then what do we do? Where does that put Yos? Do we lynch Yos to see if BBT was telling the truth?

I'm sure a cop or some sort of investigative role, will rectify the whole issue better than a lynch that could flip either way, and leave us doubting again tomorrow.