Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[texcat]

/confirm

[texcat]

Nary a hat.
VOTE: Aneninen

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kmd
super secret maybe scum read???

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kmd
super secret maybe scum read???

Yep.

KMD, was that "super secret scumread" a joke too? 

Nope.

Acryon, are you just gonna agree and sheep all game or is that an early Day 1 thing?

Shadow gets town points for noticing the same thing I did.

So you want me to town it up for yall or am I playing my normal scummy game?

Town it up if you are town. Be scummy if you are scum. Like if you are scum, keep buddying people like you have with Yos and BBT already

Lowell, your shadow vote makes me feel ignored. Why is try hard scum anyway?

Guess I'll reveal. Alwaysinnocent was my other scum read. Hard to explain, but he gives off a basic "fitting in" feel rather than a "looking for scum" one. I know it's early but that's when we all have Role PMs freshest in our mind.

Ok, bed time for me. Be back in the afternoon.

UNVOTE:
I totally misread your original post. I thought the super secret you were keeping was your reason for voting Acryon.

[texcat]

What thread were you posting in?

[texcat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kmd
super secret maybe scum read???

This looks like a serious vote Tex, can you walk me through it? What was scummy about Kmd keeping a read to himself?

It was a serious vote, or at least page-2-serious. Kmd made a self-described "serious" vote for Acryon without any explanation. I have later explained that I mis-read Kmd's post. I read that the super secret was the reasoning behind the Acryon vote. I'm not a fan of naked votes. I especially didn't like the fact that Kmd not only naked voted, but found it necessary to call it serious and a super secret. I probably would have still voted if I had read the post properly. I still would have had the objection to the naked, serious vote. As for keeping reads to yourself, that's to be expected. We all do that to some extent when we are unsure or tentative about a read. We ask questions and wait for developments. What is the purpose, though, of announcing that you have a tentative read that you want to keep super secret and see how it develops in the next 17 hours?

It was mostly something to get the game going but a small part of me does believe that scum would have confirmed in the way other people were doing it to avoid making waves.

My PM was quite specific about how to confirm. (See the OP.) Are you suggesting that scum had different instructions? Or are you suggesting that it's scummy not to read the instructions, or scummy to read the instructions?

[texcat]

Yup, Albert is town. Good to know.

Or ABR knows how to make you think he's town.

In other news,
bah humbug!

[texcat]

Prodge. I'm a bit behind and need to catch up, but won't have a chance until later tonight.

[texcat]

A few general impressions of the game so far...

I've played with ABR a few times and never had any luck reading him. It is remarkable, however, that he's been more vocal in this game than the others put together. I have no idea whether that makes it more or less likely that he's scum. His love affair with Yos makes me nervous though.

I don't understand the whole problem with Yos scum hunting by town hunting. Doesn't everyone do that to some extent? I'm always reluctant to put someone in the town column, because I tend to ignore them and not re-evaluate and they end up scum. But as long as you continue to re-evaluate, I don't see a problem.

I am not getting a town v town vibe from Yos v BBT, but can't put my finger on why. So I'll call it gut.

ABR

, can you explain why you think it is town v town?

AlwaysInnocent

, you've had reads and votes all over the place. Could you give me a summary of your current reads?

[texcat]

Because BBT and Yosarian are both doing pro-town things. They are probably wrong, but still doing pro-town things.

I don't think BBT's total focus on Yos is pro-town. Yos, at least, is commenting on others.

I think the scum can be found in this pool:

{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

All of the scum? Does this mean you are town reading the rest of us?

[texcat]

unvote

Anyway, turns out the key to avoid lynch is to stop talking. That certainly won't backfire.

VOTE: yos

I'm a fan of 209, and acryon as town.

The other point I disagree with, is when you joined the YOS wagon, you claimed 'the best way to avoid a lynch is to stop talking'.

If you don't want to be lynched, the best way is to prove your worth, to show why you shouldn't be lynched. And if someone is put under pressure by questions, deliberately ignoring them, is going to get you lynched. It might just be me that thinks that, but I think keeping quiet, isn't the key to avoid being lynched.

Kop

, it seems to me that you took Lowell's comment way out of context, leaving off entirely the part about it won't backfire.

[texcat]

VOTE: Kop

Misrep of Lowell's post. Third on the bandwagon.

[texcat]

Eh, I think Kop just didn't pick up on the sarcasm here. Hard to believe he took my comment earnestly (as a guide?) but maybe he did. In related news, he's been gone awhile....

Still, Kop's long earnest case against me makes me think he's probably town. I think scum would be savvier, frankly. In any event, I've already got too many scummy people on my wagon, and I doubt more than one or two would jump on at the same time.

I agree that he didn't pick up on the sarcasm. I disagree that his case was earnest. I think his long case on you was typical of what scum would do. Not really scum hunting, but wanting to appear so. He came back in, saw who the bandwagon was building on, quickly iso'd you and made a case on the first scummy thing he saw, not stopping to see the sarcasm.

[texcat]

I don't think BBT's total focus on Yos is pro-town. Yos, at least, is commenting on others.

^This felt weird to me because BBT talked about other people a lot, but it's an accurate statement if you only look at his posts from Sunday. Tex, what do you think of BBT's full ISO?

I agree that BBT's early game was not so much of a tunnel. And tunneling is not necessarily scummy; plenty of townies do it, but I'd almost never call it pro-town.

[texcat]

Basically, it looks like you're faking a super-obsessed-tunnel on me because you think that tunneling will make you look pro-town, even though you don't really seem to have any real reasons for voting me. If you were town you'd either be making a real argument against me or else you'd have changed targets by now.

This makes sense to me.

VOTE: BBT

[texcat]

BBT, I just don't understand how you can be so confident in your Yos read, given the slim amount of evidence. It smells off to me.

[texcat]

Texcat, we haven't had a chance to interact yet. You started to question AI for a bit then dropped it awhile back. What do you think of AI? For the record, my vote is staying where it is on him.

AI is definitely on my possible scum list. But both Kop and BBT have moved ahead of him.

I think it is best for town to resolve BBT v Yos earlier rather than later.

[texcat]

Yosarian and KMD still seem somewhat scummy to me, so I am probably misreading some people, since I am also scumreading BBT, Aneninen, Lucky and Lowell. (After all, there

cannot be more than 3 scum

.)

I don't even know why my post was inaccurate. I have checked the setup again and I only count

3 Mafia max

. What am I missing?

I agree that most slips are BS. I don't think this one is.

It's clear from what he's said that he did not think there was a two man scum team, and did not factor in SK into his 3 number. Get off it KMD; he's town. His response to all of this has made it painfully clear if the slip didn't do that itself.

Maybe I missed it, cause it's not clear to me. Can you point me to where AI says he doesn't think there was a two man team? I don't see how 3 max excludes a two man team. I'm not seeing the slip.

[texcat]

I can agree about AI's responses.

[texcat]

I still think that BBT is the best lynch. His tunnel of Yos is scummy. The resistance to his wagon increases my scum read on him. If he were town, scum would have jumped on his wagon and he'd be dead by now. Lynching BBT would resolve the situation and give us a ton of info.

My other scum reads are Kop, and now an OMGUS read of KMD.

[texcat]

AI, I just told you my scum reads. If forced to name my town reads, it would be Yos and ABR, followed by you and Acryon. The other 6 are somewhere there in the middle.

[texcat]

You went from "let's lynch AI" to "let's lynch texcat; she is textbook scum"? You have a shocking amount of open and shut cases ready to go.

Looks like scum going after low hanging fruit in order to prevent scum buddy BBT's lynch.

[texcat]

Let's not do this. Doesn't it bother anyone that Kmd is the one who started this wagon?

[texcat]

And AI, you are wrong. This is not my scum game. What games exactly did you re-read?

[texcat]

?? Are you saying I was more aggressive in Blitz 11 ??

[texcat]

Oh so you're saying that I play the way I always play.

[texcat]

Yes, in Blitz 11, I tried to play my scum game just like my town game. Why is that either unexpected or impressive?

[texcat]

Did you read any game where I was town for comparison?

[texcat]

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, AI. I don't think a couple of random games makes a meta argument. Especially when comparing activity over the holidays.

[texcat]

Is the Lowell wagon just due to his quick flip onto BBT?

[texcat]

What would I need an alibi for? I'm saying that comparing activity during the holidays to activity during normal workdays doesn't make sense.

You seem to be voting me strictly based on activity. I don't think that's a very good argument.

[texcat]

Typical scum springs into action as soon as they are in danger. Happy to lurk away the day otherwise. Lynch texcat please.

This also is a bad argument. Town defends themselves as well as scum.

[texcat]

Texcat ISO:
ISO 0-3: completely null

Not exactly null. This is where I voted you for your super secret naked vote.

4: pointless question. Posting for the sake of posting.
5: overexplaining the nothingness of her vote on me + asked BBT about confirmations

BBT asked to be "walked through" my vote of you. I walked him through it. I would not characterize it as overexplaining.

6: Not sure if this is a soft attack on ABR or lightly questioning Yos. Either way, I don't feel like Tex's heart is in it

Of course you don't feel like my heart is in it. That's confirmation bias.

7: a prod dodge

On the day after Xmas.

8: her big catch up says no read on ABR, Yos' playstyle is ok, Yos vs BBT isn't town vs town (but doesn't take a side) because gut, and asks Always for reads. This is kind of empty feeling for all of the words in the post. 15 pages in and I still don't have a clue on any of her reads.
9: this was the post I expressed problems with earlier. She says BBT is only focused on Yos which was only true in his posts made in one RL day up to that point, so it looks like an excuse to scum read him rather than a reason. But notice she still hasn't voted BBT or anyone else at that point. And then there's the question she asked to make sure Always was townreading her.
10-12: I don't have an issue with her Kop vote.

And I still think Kop is scum, after that misrep of Lowell's post.

13: I asked Tex for thoughts on BBT's entire ISO other than Yos stuff. Her thoughts are that she agrees it's not all a tunnel and tunneling isn't scummy. Again, that's weak and empty. I'd think it would be easy to say more than that about BBT's ISO.
14: After she JUST SAID that BBT isn't tunneling and that tunneling isn't protown OR scummy, she sheeps Yos and quotes him saying that BBT's tunnel is fake to look protown. WTF? Horse shit.

Horse shit, indeed. I never said that BBT wasn't tunneling. I said that his early ISO was more than a tunnel. The tunnel has been a lot more than the one RL day that you claim. I questioned ABR's read of town v town, saying that BBT was not acting in a pro-town way. Why would you be surprised that I agreed with Yos that the tunnel looked scummy.

15: Questions BBT's confidence. K.
16: wants to "resolve" BBT vs Yos. Sounds like she's capitalizing on their issues with each other rather than hunting scum between them. I bet if Yos was the one being wagoned, her vote would be on him, not BBT, if both are town.

If Yos were acting as scummy as BBT, perhaps I would be on his wagon.

17-18: sheeping acryon on Always "townslipping"

Not at all sheeping. I disagreed and questioned the townslip. And then did agree with the reaction

Basically, she's playing the careful, cautious, in the background agreeing game with a hint of opportunism and active lurking. She doesn't seem at all interesting in finding scum. I think she's worried about her own appearance. It's textbook scum mentality.

I was trying to ignore this "case" of Kmd's from yesterday, hoping that it would go away because there is nothing there. I'm surprised that I'm being lynched on a lurking charge. ABR should know better.

Oh and since I'm at L-1, I will claim. Just vanilla town.

[texcat]

Although the way so many people are so opposed to the BBT wagon for such weak reasons just makes him even more likely to be scum. If BBT was town I tend to think he'd be lynched right now.

I said this exact thing a little while ago. What are your feelings on Kop and Kmd?

[texcat]

Now I'm a policy lynch????

[texcat]

Yep. Thanks for modding! I think I like this setup. And the color was great!