Open 620: Duck Duck Goose Game Over, Mafia Victory

[droog]

yo im back

[droog]

Two wagons and you're RVSing with nothing else to say?

scummy

I'm no expert but I believe that Johnny made those last 3 posts.

scummy

Oh yeah I'm not gonna bother signing posts because I'll just forget at the scummiest moment

yuck

Hoo boy. This game moves, huh?

yuck

[droog]

Also post 23 is exactly why hydras suck. If another head is really scummy you can just be like "excuse my other head, he is bad this game"

town

[droog]

Pffffft funny thing is the wrong head got blamed. Taly hasn't posted yet, all posts have been me (the scummy one) and Bells (the sexy one).

why say youre not going to sign
ibut signing posts that got you in trouble

[droog]

UNVOTE:

[droog]

n owonder conc dropped he
fucked up by page 2

[droog]

Oh yeah I'm not gonna bother signing posts because I'll just forget at the scummiest moment

Can you explain what you meant by this? Please define what you mean by "scummiest moment". I just glossed over it because I did not understand it. And can everyone else who thinks that it is scummy explain why?

this post is werid

mathilda puts pressure on rf3 when everyone else is
but doesnt vote
kind of jumping on the wagon without committing

also

mathilda never responds
rf3 gives a good reply in [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7518706]#40[/url
did mathilda really care about the ansewr?

[droog]

taly talks too much
but makes me think rf3 is town with a head who wants to play scu

[droog]

UNVOTE: newbie
VOTE: something pip

80 is the longest post to say nothing. Also ironically, it does what it purports to *facepalm*. Yes, 75 is pretty dumb, but Mathilda is the easy target here, and your obsession is overwrought. I get the vibe of scum happy to be able to jump in on a dumb comment and make hay with it. Way too much hay.

i agree with loweell

when mathilda said "newbie isnt a newbie something's up! " my first thought was
'mathilda is fake newbslipping and spip is letting him get away with it"

[droog]

then again loweell is using the "easy target" line
which kind of backs up mathilda in the wrong way

[droog]

liking dominator's entr

[droog]

UNVOTE: whoever
VOTE: conc

To add pressure. This looks like the kind of game where we just wagon everyone to get them to wake up. Wake me when it's my turn.

*yawns*

scum scum scum scum

[droog]

UNVOTE: whoever
VOTE: conc

To add pressure. This looks like the kind of game where we just wagon everyone to get them to wake up. Wake me when it's my turn.

*yawns*

[droog]

reads

town

burning earth
dominator
newbie

null

rf3
not mafia (where is jhe)

scum

loweell
mathilda


VOTE: mathilda

@mod requesting extension please

[droog]

droog: "your town"
be: "stop being wrong"
?

[droog]

Yeah all your other reads suck though.

convince me
i am townreading you

droog doesn't like me :C

nah bro youre

[droog]

Oh yeah I'm not gonna bother signing posts because I'll just forget at the scummiest moment

Can you explain what you meant by this? Please define what you mean by "scummiest moment". I just glossed over it because I did not understand it. And can everyone else who thinks that it is scummy explain why?

this post is werid

mathilda puts pressure on rf3 when everyone else is
but doesnt vote
kind of jumping on the wagon without committing

I wasn't putting pressure on RF3, merely asking for an explanation. I am trying to generate information.

And why should I vote for RF3? I don't see any reason to yet.

also

mathilda never responds
rf3 gives a good reply in [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7518706]#40[/url
did mathilda really care about the ansewr?

Why

should I respond if I am satisfied with the

?

This all looks contrived by you to find distract people from the lynch wagon on your slot. This in itself makes me read you as scum. More so than anyone else I have voted for so far.

VOTE: Droog / Concvex

This is the first time
You've said you're satisfied with rc3''s response
Why would you ask a question
Not follow up on it
And then pretend the answer always satisfied you

[droog]

UNVOTE: whoever
VOTE: conc

To add pressure. This looks like the kind of game where we just wagon everyone to get them to wake up. Wake me when it's my turn.

*yawns*

scum scum scum scum

Why?

It's just making apathy
And it's like he's covering
All the lurkers

[droog]

liking dominator's entr

What exactly do you like about dominator's entry?

Not sure
I just like it
Rereading

Maybe I like the way he attacks
Hus entrance makes enemies and I like that

[droog]

Also @Math
Your idea that I'm "distracting"
Makes no sense

On conc the case is that he scammed it up
Then lurked

Now your case on me is that I'm
Finding lynch options that aren't me?

[droog]

Disagree on loweell
"Easy tatget" is a classic way to say
"You're scum cause you suspect a newb"

I do t the k math is a newb
I also think loweell is all that useful or honest

But they're probably not scum together
RF3 I'll sheep you if no one else agrees re: mathilda

[droog]

droog, can you explain your town read on BE and dominator and scum read on mathilda?

i talked about mathilda
what was not clear

dominator is only becuase i liked his entrance
also just covered that

burning earth
i really liked his coverage while reading
there were a few moments where i was going to post something
that hed already posted
like 33,65,148

but now that im interacting with him
hes kind of prickly and wrong
still town for now

[droog]

droog, can you explain your town read on BE and dominator and scum read on mathilda?

i talked about mathilda
what was not clear

dominator is only becuase i liked his entrance
also just covered that

burning earth
i really liked his coverage while reading
there were a few moments where i was going to post something
that hed already posted
like 33,65,148

but now that im interacting with him
hes kind of prickly and wrong
still town for now

[droog]

I hate hydras that don't sign btw.

Also post 23 is exactly why hydras suck. If another head is really scummy you can just be like "excuse my other head, he is bad this game"

Oh the hydra-ranting was just me ranting. I'm voting you because you look scummy to me.

Oh I didn't think that your second post that I quoted was self conscious, Taly. I thought that your first was, and your second was a bad hand wave.

i also olike this wave against the hydra
maybe everyone dislikes hydras
but be isnt afraid to make enemies early
i like that
and i think its a genuine scum read

[droog]

all those posts are part of his entrance

[droog]

i also thought mathildas post on you
about how 'hes not a newb omg :O"
was her trying to newbslip

she's playted just too many games
for me to believe she really thought that

[droog]

.

you dont think i meant i liked this do you

[droog]

I agree that Mathilda's "Newbie's not a Newbie!" thing was weird. But in the same post, she said she's reading me as town because of it, so that would be odd if she wanted to take advantage.

scum fake town reads too

[droog]

The funny thing is, I didn't even realize that was his first post. I thought this was.

^^^ this guy is going to be fun.

The AtE is strong in you.

That's what I figured you were referring to. Still, how is he a strong town read based on any of it?

i have him as town
nowhere do i say 'strong town'
its my first readlist after entering
~10 pages in
what more do you want besides ...

Explain this dom townread because they're null at best in my eyes.

I read through your posts and unless I missed something,

the read seems partially gut.

[/quote]

... pretty much this

[droog]

... pretty much this

Can you define "pretty much this"?

I read through your posts and unless I missed something,

the read seems partially gut.

... pretty much this[/quote]

bold

Also, why did it take several people asking you to explain your town read before finally doing so, using somebody else's words?

liking dominator's entr

liking dominator's entr

What exactly do you like about dominator's entry?

Not sure
I just like it
Rereading

Maybe I like the way he attacks
Hus entrance makes enemies and I like that

[droog]

idk how to respond to taly on wallposting
i dont feel strongly about it
maybe save for endgame

[droog]

going back to loweell
i really dont like his style
not sure if thats affecting my scumread or not but

UNVOTE: newbie
VOTE: something pip

80 is the longest post to say nothing.

Also ironically, it does what it purports to *facepalm*. Yes, 75 is pretty dumb, but Mathilda is the easy target here, and your obsession is overwrought. I get the vibe of scum happy to be able to jump in on a dumb comment and make hay with it. Way too much hay.

look at loweell's iso
the entire thing is 'say nothing'
this post is the biggest attack he makes

all he does is call spip's post 'overwrought'
without really explaining why mathilda is town/right/wrong/misguided
its basically just white-knighting
its weird

UNVOTE: whoever
VOTE: conc

To add pressure. This looks like the kind of game where we just wagon everyone to get them to wake up. Wake me when it's my turn.

*yawns*

here his conc/me vote is "pressure"

^if concvex ever gets bussed this is 100% where it happens.
BE vs. RF3 seems TvT.
Dominator is obvscum.
Not_Mafia will probably need to be PL'd at some point.
-the smart head

We're quicklynching here. Quit slowing us down.

now its "quicklynching"

Burning and RF are town. Mathilda's play is weirdly methodical. Someone kill conc.

now it sounds like he scumreads the slot
this is important because

conc has not posted since the beginning of loweell's vote

basically

loweell says nothing about his reads
while whining that nothing is happening

his biggest attack is spip voting an "easy target"
while he "quicklynches" a lurker slot

[droog]

I mean I guess Concev could be scum, but there's no where near enough content from the slot.

Very true. Vote him anyway. This game is going nowhere.

see whaat i mean

[droog]

VOTE: loweell

[droog]

im not pissed off about it

[droog]

2. Not in and of itself, but Droog does need to explain that read a lot more.

[droog]

@mod

happy bday and i changed my vote to loweell last page

Fixed. Thanks.

[droog]

glad someone read 291
challenge to all:
read loweell's iso
compare: who contributed more: conc or loweell?
then explain loweell's vote

[droog]

townlean on karnage

he read my 291
which changed his opinion on loweell
then after my 321 ^^
he want back and looked again

scum karnage could have rested on the null
"ill look at loweell later"
read

[droog]

sharky's iso is weak and null

[droog]

That was my very last sentence so you don't have a plausible excuse for thinking that I was reading newbie as scum. Of course I know that "newbie" is a name and not a status bestowed upon a player by the almighty mods of Mafia. But my point remains that the player chose to call themselves "newbie". She chose it for a reason.

What your posts suggests to me is that you are deliberately looking for means to cast suspicion on a player rather than looking for slips. The former is a sign of someone wanting to cause a mislynch, the latter is a sign of someone trying to discover who is scum.

mathilda
this just feels 'clunky' to me
doesnt really change my opinion about the
"newbie is a newb" thing

still seems to me like youre original post
was weird in a way that fits iwth scum being weird at game start

[droog]

@mod

prod scorp and dom please

[droog]

Conclusion: I'd be more willing to vote dom or droog over Lowell, especially since it seem Dom's wagon has been getting a bit of resistance.

agree that dom looks worse
now that he's not posting

question
loweell has actually come back and
not reallt responded
with a vote that looks hypocritical

why does dom look worse?

[droog]

@droog Dom has made less of an effort to respond every time he's here, but he doesn't seem be getting as much attention as Lowell.

loweell wasnt getting any attention until me
the only vote was a rand from scorp

whcih means you believe scum is on the loweell wagon

ok
sell me on that
who is scummy on the loweell wagon

[droog]

spip 351 has all my favorite flavors
makes me lean town on spip
and more null on newbite

[droog]

Or I wait until the mod prods Dom and see if he responds. If he doesn't and ends up having to get replaced, then I'll move my vote to Lowell.

dont weasel out
you think scum is on loweell's wagon
who and why

[droog]

never mind just saw 357

[droog]

The underlined is where I sit on scum.

hang on
you think im the only scum on the loweell wagon
but you also think that

Dom has made less of an effort to respond every time he's here, but he doesn't seem be getting as much attention as Lowell.

why do you care how much attention loweell is getting
if you think everyone on him but me is town

[droog]

sounds like you think
that loweell is a fishy wagon
with the only scummy one on it
being the guy who started it

[droog]

FYI, my willingness to lynch Lowell continues to go down every time Dom's wagon is resisted.

who on loweell's wagon do you think
is scum resisting dom lynch

[droog]

Spip has pretty good reads

[droog]

Loweell has a pretty good point
The case is definitely overstated
It's a day 1 case soooo

But you still need to answer
Why you voted conc/me
When you had a mild town really there

Nothing else really matters atm
That's the bug part of thay case

[droog]

Oh yeah the going nowhere apathy too
That was bad

[droog]

Mathilda

Seems kind of weird
That you are willing to hammer loweell
But say that radvantage is clearly having an effect

If you really are OK with lyrics chiggers loweell
Aren't we still I'm the same spot

[droog]

Loweell don't you dare
Start pushing without answering
Thservice questions from before

[droog]

@droog- I voted you originally because the slot was absent, then I got bloodthirsty, it was the only active wagon, nothing else was happening, so I thought "why not? he could be scum."

Thatnks m8



I still scum read you and will push that
But I'm also wilingerie to look at other options ftm

[droog]

Ok so here's my problem
Basedan on mathilda 420
Loweell
And radiant

There are a few people who find the loweell wagon
Has scum on it

Can someone please push a case
Or a breakdown
I don't see a compelling case for anyone
Onthat wagon

And I think the only case has been made against me
Since I started the wagon
I can't be the scum who made it popular

[droog]

Vote Count 1.7
Lowell: Scorpious, RadiantalyFarrar3, Something Pip, Droog, Karnage

[L-2]

Droog: Lowell, Mathilda
Something Pip:TheDominator37
Newbie:Burning_Earth
Burning_Earth: Not_Mafia
TheDominator37: Newbie
Not voting: shaddowez
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
(expired on 2016-01-14 15:25:34)

Seeking replacement for Not_Mafia and TheDominator37

Prodding Scorpious for the third time.

Loweell wagon

Me -- not seeing any cases to respond to
Scorpio - I forgot he existed will look into
RF3 (the other heads) -- y'all need a
heart to heart before I can look into that
Spip __ Imy leaning more and more town on him
Karnak -- dunno but I liked his entrance

[droog]

Scorp'so vote is from rvs
He doesn't count as part of the wagon

[droog]

glad someone read 291
challenge to all:
read loweell's iso
compare: who contributed more: conc or loweell?
then explain loweell's vote

the only thing 291 missed was

getting townvibes from conc and RF3

when he switched his vote to conc he did it to pressure one of his town reads
UNVOTE:
VOTE: lowell

I liked this post
It showed that Karnage was in thread
And actually read loweell's iso when I asked

I rate it town
He did switch from a mathilda wagon
Which isn't going anywhere today
But I don't think that's scummy

[droog]

The rest of Karnage
Is casing against math
And asking rc for his case

Not really seeing opportunistic scum there

[droog]

Ok so here's my problem
Basedan on mathilda 420
Loweell
And radiant

There are a few people who find the loweell wagon
Has scum on it

Are you seriously suggesting that the Lowell lynch wagon does not have any scum on it?

That rarely happens and if it does, scum normally win.

That happened on my only scum game on this forum and only because town had a tendency to collectively death-tunnel at the drop of a hat. I remember someone mentioning during the game how an all-town lynch wagon on day 1 would more often than not break town.

You are making me think that Lowell might be town. Or have I misunderstood you?

No
It's large enough where it probably has scum

But who? I'm not seeing any cases
Against anyone on the wagon
Which is why I'm going through it myself

If you want to say scum is on loweell wagon
You need to say who

[droog]

VOTE: Lowell This really should happen, I was holding my vote on convex cause I hate when people lurk out of pressure, but I'm really liking Droog's entrance so far. Taly should keep wallposting as long as the game necessitates it, but other people's lazyiness shouldn't be a reason not to wallpost, this game is going really slow anyways.

This vote isn't opportunistic
It's the 3rd vote on the wagon after scorp and me
Spip isn't jumping on a wagon but pushing it himself
Not really scum on a wagon material

I have a town reads on spip too

[droog]

Reads on the loweell wagon

Town

Droog
Spip
Karnage

Null

Scorp
Rc

I don't think it's Karnage or spip
Unless loweell is town

[droog]

Your on the wagon

[droog]

For a lot of minor reasons
Your play doesn't remind me of that game
Where you were scum

Nothing string or weak

[droog]

Idk
Yur loweell vote post
Has a bit too much explanation for my tastes
(I look at this a lot)
But it was also at l-1 range so that doesn't mean anything

And I think your vote comes from the right place
That is loweell has a bad record for day 1
And it's a day 1 vote with not better options

No real town reads but no scum read
Motives for joining the wagon look fine

[droog]

If you want to say scum is on loweell wagon
You need to say who

W

ell, you for a start.

Probability is though that scum will be on the wagon. It is unlikely for scum not to be, especially in a slow game where people are reluctant to lynch and are not collectively suffering from cognitive bias.

Yeah Yeah Yeah
But I started the wagon
I made the first case

Everyone after has been saying the same stuff

It would not have become a big wagon
Without other people agreeing with me
So please explain
Do you think all town followed scum me
Or do you think there's another scum there
If not why
If yes who

[droog]

+1

[droog]

The fact that a lot of people are talking about who is or isn't town on my wagon makes me think a lot of people think I'm not actually scum.

The people nt on your wagon?

[droog]

For one newbie
That you actually took my challenge
And named someone not-me on loweell
That you think is scum

Makes me lean back town

[droog]

I think it was mathildas
"Newbie isn't a newb"
Bit that got me going in that directiom

[droog]

People should sheep my vote, it's quite a good vote.

I can't see scum making a post like this. Even if it was just a joke, I'd expect a bit more self consciousness. I also understand how concvex could've found what BE pointed out about RF3 as scummy.

Really liked this
Also tremendously liked your back and forth
With rf3

[droog]

I don't understand why this day hasn't ended yet. Not one person has produced any convincing reason to believe that Lowell is town.

Obviously the people pushing for a Lowell lynch have not made a convincing enough argument that he is scum. People are all guilty until proved innocent in a Mafia game but we only have one lynch which means that we go for the best case on one person to be lynched. We can't rely on PoE on Day 1.

And for those who wonder who is scum on Lowell's wagon, my belief is that there aren't any (scum = Lowell, Newbie, Mathilda) but if there are then it's Scorpious or shaddow.

And this makes me suspicious of you as well. Maybe I was right with my initial impression of you.

We can either sit here arguing our way to a no lynch, or we can lynch Lowell and, at the very worst, gain information from the flip.

We're gaining information now by seeing who is pushing for a Lowell lynch with very little information to go on and who don't bother making a good case for doing so, but telling people that it should be a default action to lynch him.

(At best of course we will lynch one scum, with another [Newbie] soon to follow.) If Lowell flips town then several people have some explaining to do, and likewise if he flips scum.

The same could be said for lynching anyone in this game. You and me included. Tell us why Lowell is the

best

candidate for lynching today.

The fact that the discussion has switched to "who on the wagon is scum?" means that our focus has shifted away from Lowell himself and toward how people have interacted with him. This discussion will only yield anything once he flips.

This is scum motivation here, not town. Town are worried about mislynching but want to generate information. Scum just want a mislynch.

I'm reading you as scum now.

So to answer Droog's question, that's both Droog and sPip as scum on the Lowell lynch wagon, which then means that it's more likely that Lowell is town and just an inactive player. I shall now be voting for him. Find someone else to finish your lynch wagon.

This whole post
Pings myou scum dar

2 points
Spip isn't lynching loweell on poe like math says
Math sounds like she's talking herself into scumreads

[droog]

Um droog, Hi, I'm Johnny. You may not remember me, I died super early in a nightless vengeful you were in around a year ago. You didn't look this fake then.

You got venged after an lol hammer
Dumb luck on us

What's going on Johnny
I'm going to play for the town this game
Hbu
What about cowvells?

[droog]

As I stated, I am suspicious of people unwilling to entertain the idea that there are scum on the Lowell lynch wagon.

Liked me?

[droog]

Anti-town is not the same as scum play
Lowell is anti-town because of his apathy. Droog and sPip are actively pushing for anti-town action.

> lynching anti-town is anti-town
> anti-town is not scum
> "But droog and sPip are totes scum lynching anti-toen"

[droog]

To me the value of hammering Lowell lays not in seeing whether he is scum, but in seeing who steps forward to make sure it happens. The flip will give me a better idea as to the alignment of you and Droog.

Why bother?
You have already said
That loweell could be town or scum
And we'd look scummy either way

And why does the avoid post
Sound like you want to lynch loweell

[droog]

Not ignoring you trow
Just don't have anything to say

[droog]

Also Droog, you've had this slot as null for most of the day - Are you going to engage with us over that?

hi taly
im going to wait a little
your three heads are all voting/reading differently
i want some flips for associations so i can look at your slot

any othr questions

[droog]

Looks fine to me
Loweell could've claimed long ago

[droog]

Oh right pgo setup
Whhoops

[droog]

But they will reply as if you said something completely different to what you actually did, but in a way that casts more suspicion on you.

They also were both denying the possibility that scum are not on the Lowell lynch wagon.

[droog]

meh
VOTE: mathilda i want my vote back hre

[droog]

^ i like trow's vote
not because he agrees with my math read
(in fact i dont think hes ever said i influenced it)

jumping on that wagon with that timing is risky
and he brought something new to the wagon

[droog]

532 has some good points
spip was a townread yesterday
ill reevaluate

[droog]

pbpa?

[droog]

both heads are equally responsible for the slot

[droog]

You and Droog were really pushing hard for a mislynch yesterday

we iddnt know at the time it was a mislnchy
or at least i didnt
youre ust spinning a narrative

[droog]

and its a crap case

Droog

236: He calls a post of Lowell's scummy, but throws a vote on Mathilda instead.

225-238 is all me
i called them both scummy and voted loweell
why do you only pick 2 posts and then suggest
that i was voting against my read?

231 + 254: Looks like an extremely flimsy reason to scum read/vote Mathilda. He even notes that she didn't throw a vote on RF3 after questioning him. Maybe, because like she said, she was satisfied with the answer. There was no reason to follow up.[/quote]

already explained
seemed to me that math didnt care
about the answer she got

291:

He then makes a case against Lowell once the Mathilda wagon goes nowhere.

He accuses Lowell of saying nothing about his reads and going after an easy target in Pip, but his townread (Dom) threw an opportunistic vote on pip 132. Note this is Dom's only read as well.

just a minut ago you were complaining
that i called loweell scummy and voted math
now i vote math and its still a problem for you

263: When asked why Dom is a townread, he says he likes his entrance + gut read, but Dom has done what he accuses Lowell of, and to a worse extant.

i accused loweell of pushing lurkers
while actively lurking

dom disappeared completely after his burst
not comparable

323: Buddies Karnage who votes both Mathilda and Lowell.[/quote]

???????

[droog]

townlean on karnage

he read my 291
which changed his opinion on loweell
then after my 321 ^^
he want back and looked again

scum karnage could have rested on the null
"ill look at loweell later"
read

buddying???

[droog]

To be honest I don't really read his posts any more except on the odd occasion when he starts posting a bit more lucidly.

Sadly that's been rare in any of the games I've played with him. I almost always scum read him based on his posting.

which game do you mean
the only game i remember you in
you were scum and i was town

[droog]

Yes but you and Something Pip didn't even contemplate the idea that it might have been. You did not display any doubt.

no

you spent the phase asserting there HAS TO be scum on teh wagon
i kept asking who
i analyzed the entire wagon
i had a back-and-forth with loweell when i didnt need to

you were the one who was SO SURE
that there was scum doing something
without doing anything about it

[droog]

I am not confident that Lowell is town, but I am getting scummier vibes from sPip and Droog. They could be bussing their scum buddy as far as I know.

you already had it set up yesterday
to keep your same reads today
no matter which way loweell flipped

[droog]

If there is no chance of the lynch wagon moving onto either Droog or Dom then I am willing to hammer Lowell. I am not as confident that he is scum as the other two but there is still a good chance that he is scum. At the very least we're removing a player who is not pro-town. Other than Droog and Dom, I'm certainly more confident voting for Lowell than for anyone else at this point in the game.

Stating intention to hammer.

interesting comparison
with what youre claming now

[droog]

I'm willing to join egg
VOTE: newbie

My null town read
Has been eaten away by his weak case on me
(Call it omgus if you like)

And eggs case is good

[droog]

This whole thread feels ignored.
I'm totally fine with lynching Newbie or Mathilda. Consider me on whichever wagon takes off.
-the smart head

you dont want to push one?
take some agency

[droog]

How does it seem that she didn't care about the answer?

because she never acknowledged the answer

[droog]

which involved pushing a lurker and not doing crap else, which wasn't any better than Lowell at all.

they were different

loweell was a lurker who then voted my slot for lurking
dom had one burst of activty and then disappeared

[droog]

but now that I'm voting you, you're hopping on the wagon because of someone else's case?

egg made a case i liked enough to sheep
your vote has nothing to do with ti

except taht now i ive seen your case on me
(a false one)

that overrides my weak townread before

[droog]

This whole thread feels ignored.
I'm totally fine with lynching Newbie or Mathilda. Consider me on whichever wagon takes off.
-the smart head

Guys this is gross

what kind of gross

vote-moving gross
or "look at my obversations fellow townies"
gross

[droog]

This whole thread feels ignored.
I'm totally fine with lynching Newbie or Mathilda. Consider me on whichever wagon takes off.
-the smart head

Guys this is gross

what kind of gross

vote-moving gross
or "look at my obversations fellow townies"
gross

i was prepared to dig into you for this
but thi sis a fair point
do you have a spip case?
he's been one of my stronger townreads so far

closer to the latter I guess? More like "we definitely killed someone in this game for this horseshit way of thinking and I'd hope someone who was so terrible about playing would replace out instead of treating the game like this" gross

[droog]

Even if Droog is town, he's the kind of player who acts extremely scummy all the time.

i think we just have different styles
as i play i comment on everything i find interesting
i dont hold anything back
i change my opinions often
i dont pepr grad cases, i go from my gut

but i also dont write long cases
or come to consensus conclusions

eh whate

[droog]

For example him pushing this completely trivial point about me asking a question about a minor point early in the game, being given an answer and then not wanting to lynch regardless of the answer I got. Writing that out, it doesn't even make sense. I explained twice that I was satisfied with the answer and did not feel the need to pursue it #248 #331

youre lying
if you seriously think this is the crux of my read
on you this late in the game

maybe i wasnt clear enough
do you want me to elaborate

maybe my original point wasnt explaned well
do you want me to od oit again

but jumping out like that moment is
the sole point of my scumread
is misrepping
and deliciously ironic since hats your case on me

[droog]

All Droog's votes and unvotes are naked #229 #238 #293 #528
#592. This doesn't help town in the slightest and allows for him to hop around without generating any information or giving town a chance to question whether his reasons are correct.

only if you dont read the posts before and after
i think its pretty obvious in context why i vote where
if you disagree just ask

[droog]

He lies about what people did in order to make them look scummy.

In post 254, droog wrote:
This is the first time
You've said you're satisfied with rc3''s response
Why would you ask a question
Not follow up on it
And then pretend the answer always satisfied you



I was the one who mentioned the fact that scum were like

you didnt care about the answer
enough to acknowledge it

i say this is scummy
and you say you were satified all around

which somehow means that *im* the misrepper

[droog]

btw
why do you keep asserting that im scummy as a stylee
while also suggesting that im actually scum in this case
while also admitting to not having played me before

[droog]

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: newbie
VOTE: something pip

80 is the longest post to say nothing. Also ironically, it does what it purports to *facepalm*. Yes, 75 is pretty dumb, but Mathilda is the easy target here, and your obsession is overwrought. I get the vibe of scum happy to be able to jump in on a dumb comment and make hay with it. Way too much hay.

i agree with loweell

when mathilda said "newbie isnt a newbie something's up! " my first thought was
'mathilda is fake newbslipping and spip is letting him get away with it"

Also @Math
Your idea that I'm "distracting"
Makes no sense

On conc the case is that he scammed it up
Then lurked

Now your case on me is that I'm
Finding lynch options that aren't me?

i also thought mathildas post on you
about how 'hes not a newb omg :O"
was her trying to newbslip

she's playted just too many games
for me to believe she really thought that

I agree that Mathilda's "Newbie's not a Newbie!" thing was weird. But in the same post, she said she's reading me as town because of it, so that would be odd if she wanted to take advantage.

scum fake town reads too

That was my very last sentence so you don't have a plausible excuse for thinking that I was reading newbie as scum. Of course I know that "newbie" is a name and not a status bestowed upon a player by the almighty mods of Mafia. But my point remains that the player chose to call themselves "newbie". She chose it for a reason.

What your posts suggests to me is that you are deliberately looking for means to cast suspicion on a player rather than looking for slips. The former is a sign of someone wanting to cause a mislynch, the latter is a sign of someone trying to discover who is scum.

mathilda
this just feels 'clunky' to me
doesnt really change my opinion about the
"newbie is a newb" thing

still seems to me like youre original post
was weird in a way that fits iwth scum being weird at game start

btw
why do you keep asserting that im scummy as a stylee
while also suggesting that im actually scum in this case
while also admitting to not having played me before

not to mention
that you spent a good part of yesterday
accusing loweell's wagon of having scum
but had to be pushed (by me your top scumread)
to name who you thought was scum

while you didnt do anything to make either of those wagons viable

[droog]

Mathilda, vote with me or suggest an alternative wagon please.

-RC

this is a reprise of yesterday's mathilda ocnversation
just so we're all on the same page

[droog]

Chances are he wasn't paying attention. Scum rarely lie except when claiming and giving reads. Lying about game events is extremely rare.

mathilda's "droog lies" arent actual lies
they're what she believes to be misreps
ive foguht them and dont think they are misreps
and then pointed out how her characterization
involves her lying herself

[droog]

I dunno. It seems clear cut to me. If the answer was satisfying, there's no point in acknowledging it. That doesn't mean she wasn't interested and she's said that plenty. The way you're pushing this, I actually thought you missed her saying that somehow. I mean, I looked back to understand your point a little more and I get what you are saying now, but I still don't agree with you on this specific point.

its not the crux of my
read anymore anyways
shrug

[droog]

I'm willing to join egg
VOTE: newbie

My null town read
Has been eaten away by his weak case on me
(Call it omgus if you like)

And eggs case is good

droog, why did you jump wagons when you're sold on Mathilda? You were pushing the wagon, it was still the leading wagon, and you randomly switched.

i have no idea
id forgotten id done that

maybe because math wasnt going anywhere?
rf3 keeps calling math obvtown
and i wasnt getting much response to my push

how embarassing

[droog]

maybe because math wasnt going anywhere?
rf3 keeps calling math obvtown
and i wasnt getting much response to my push

no this is clearly wrong too
i cant tell you why i did it
one of my sloppy moments i guess

[droog]

the stuff i really thought was bad
was math insisting there had to be scum on loweell
but took forever in naming them

when i finally pushed enough
she named me and spip
and did nothing to push those wagons

its like she gave just enough token resistance
to show that
"i wasnt on that bad wagon"
while also letting it go through

[droog]

Yeah, this I can agree with. It kind of feels like she knew Lowell would flip town and didn't want to be associated with the lynch. And I agree that town who sees a bad lynch happening would be more likely to look into who is the scum pushing it and do something about it. (Although to be fair, she's now pushing you and something pip after you said something so there's that)

but shes only pushing hard now
all yesterday i had to request
me, i, her top scumread
had to request her cases
against me, i, her top scumread

[droog]

it screams convenient
especially because she gets to say
"my reads were right
no introspection!"

[droog]

fwiw

if math flips town
i will take a second look at spip since
he and i have driven both wagons
i will look heavily at rf3
with at outside chance of karnage

if math flips scum
i will take a hard look at newbie
and consider the lurker slots

[droog]

I worry about how many scum might be on your

[loweell

] lynch wagon if you are town. Ironically you might be the easy lynch target now for being so inactive.

There are a few people who find the loweell wagon
Has scum on it

Can someone please push a case
Or a breakdown
I don't see a compelling case for anyone
Onthat wagon

Are you seriously suggesting that the Lowell lynch wagon does not have any scum on it?

That rarely happens and if it does, scum normally win.

It's large enough where it probably has scum

But who? I'm not seeing any cases
Against anyone on the wagon
Which is why I'm going through it myself

If you want to say scum is on loweell wagon
You need to say who

Well, you for a start.

Probability is though that scum will be on the wagon. It is unlikely for scum not to be, especially in a slow game where people are reluctant to lynch and are not collectively suffering from cognitive bias.

Do you think all town followed scum me
Or do you think there's another scum there
If not why
If yes who

.....So to answer Droog's question, that's both Droog and sPip as scum on the Lowell lynch wagon,

[droog]

but shes only pushing hard now
all yesterday i had to request
me, i, her top scumread
had to request her cases
against me, i, her top scumread

[droog]

"can someone please push a case"
"im not seeing any cases"
"if you want to say scum is on loweell you need to say who"
"or do you think there's another scum there"

"so to answer droog's question"

[droog]

How do you respond to the case that you are now distancing yourself from Something Pip and Karnage?

this is a case youve made?

[droog]

Or are you now distancing yourself from your scum buddies while taking down your main threat?

How do you respond to the case that you are now distancing yourself from Something Pip and Karnage?

how was i supposed to infer
that spip and karnage
were my "buddies"

[droog]

> stop evading the question
> evades my question

[droog]

theres nothing to respond to
i am only distancing if i am scum
i am not scum

[droog]

rf3 has been on the periphery of both wagons
backing you up
its a good place for scum to hide if youre town

newbie has been actively aiding you
its a good place for scum if you're his flailing partner

[droog]

i already explained the difference

why do you care
you have already decided that im scum
which is no differetn from before
and everything i could posibly say
only earns me a stronger scumread

yet here you are arguing with me
as if youre trying to convince one of us

[droog]

rf3 has been on the periphery of both wagons
backing you up
its a good place for scum to hide if youre town

newbie has been actively aiding you
its a good place for scum if you're his flailing partner

[droog]

why do you care
you have already decided that im scum
which is no differetn from before
and everything i could posibly say
only earns me a stronger scumread

yet here you are arguing with me
as if youre trying to convince one of us

[droog]

the definition of scumslip must have changed

[droog]

You don't think Newbie is independtly scummy on her own regardless of Mathilda's flip?

if math is the weak scum i think she is
i think newbie has been providing cover

if math is town after all
newbie could go either way for me

[droog]

If Droog is town then he's honestly the most atrocious player that I have ever come across and should be policy lynched on sight. It would take real skill to play that badly.

more sig fuel

[droog]

honestly im not goig to respond anymore math
egg and shaddowez are both right
we're going nowhere

if you want to convine anyone
dont try to convince me

as it is you're just yelling pointlessly

[droog]

rf3 has been hard to sort
the rc head is pretty different from taly and johnny
especially in how he makes reads

however i think rc makes more sense if math is town
the hard defending of "math is obvtown"

basically i think its the difference betwene newbiew and rf3

rf3 is hard-defending and newbie is soft defending
rf3 gives me the vibe of defending a town slot for credit
newbie gives me the vibe of defending a partner on the ropes

[droog]

Since no town players stepped up to the plate

where does that put you

[droog]

pip comgin in on top of ssmart
only makes my townread of that slot go up

unlike rf3 where every time he overrides taly and johnny
it feels sly and shady

[droog]

I did absolutely nothing D1 even though I was townreading Lowell because their reads disagreed with mine.

whats your point
your reads were so different form theirs
that it became hard to sort you

regardless of the fact that they were driving
and you were backseat

personally im fine with waiting on you
until we get more flipts
but if you want to give more examples
id love a back and forth

[droog]

No, see this isn't going to be happening because you're trying to lynch my townreads.
I'm not okay with my townreads being lynched.
I'm not positive if you're scum or not but continue to try to lynch my townreads and you will be lynched.

Spoiler:

seriously except that you townread my scumreads
im not sure what the rest of your reads are

my preferences are newbie and math
but if you have scumreads elsewhere id like to hear them

[droog]

Dude Mathilda isn't scummy and I don't understand the wagon whatsoever.

Dude she's spent the entire day trying to milk towncred for not lynching Lowell. Then she attacks egg townreadng droog, but then doesn't vote either until you subtly start hinting that she should vote. It may not be confScum, but it certainly isn't worthy of a townread. I actually really like droog or whoever's point about you coaching mathilda. I think it actually possible that Mathilda flips town here, but you seriously need to justify like everything you've done today.

-pip

i agree with all of this
but want to add one thig
i had to push and prod math to
give specifics on who she thought ws scum
on loweell's wagon

before i asked she kept repeating
"theres gotta be scum there"
(something id probably agree)
without naming names

the fact that she needed her scumread
to push her into giving her scumreads
is a problem

[droog]

and rc
if youre serious about math being town

id like you to talk about some of the above
instead of saying you think she's obv
because shes notobv

[droog]

My whole point about the Lowell wagon is that it made you and Droog look scummy

this seems different from what you said before
before you said that there had to be scum on the wagon
and implied it was me and spip

now you're saying that the way we were on the wagon itself
looks scummy

please explain

[droog]

well, 'implied' is a weasley word
ill give you that much credit

[droog]

but you did not acknowledge the point that I was making.

which point
i think ive been very honest about your content

[droog]

It made you and Pip look scummy by denying the possibility of there being scum on it.

i never denied the possibility

[droog]

i think its his personality
thats my experince watching some ongoings

i wouldnt wifom too much
if hes town his noise is whining
if hes scum his noise is useless

[droog]

agree

[droog]

please stop rc

[droog]

You read everyone on that wagon as town.

i nevr denied the possibility
i examined the wagon and was fine
to not chase the people on it

[droog]

everything said above looks fine
im ready for the wagon to hammer

[droog]

if youre really town

we need a lost postgame chat
about how to push counterwagons

[droog]

im back
out of the dospital
will have to do a catch up

not interested in hammering spip
but im not gonna lie
i kind of wouldntve minded if it happened while i was gone

math being town is disappointing
but i guess she had that right town shrill tone of
"im so town i cant believe it"

will probably have to do a 180 on everything
(except how awful newb continues to read)

[droog]

i was gone for 2 weeks
last psoted 789
and i next post 941

really????

[droog]

Vote Newbie

My thoughts on her haven't changed. There's got to be scum on that Mathilda lynch but I'm not quite sure where. I want to say Karnage but I'm just not as confident he's scum as I am with Newbie.

I mean it could be you.

needlessly snarky m8

[droog]

VOTE: egg

[droog]

Also

@mod droog replaced out of some of his other games, saying he was in the hospital. You might want to check on him and start looking for a replacement.

sorry i forgot to explicityl do this game

[droog]

It is my opinion that it is unwise for scum to brazenly bulldoze mislynches.

i do this as scum
curious to your response

[droog]

I hard push as scum so I think it is much more likely that droog is scum than SS.

uh
are you comparing me with
your own slot

[droog]

but droog had him as a top town read and couldn't even explain why.

false

[droog]

Also, droog's push of math seemed dishonest and

flimsy.

please explain why half of town
followed a flimsly case

this is not a defense of myself
if you think a flimsy case won
and you were against it the whole time
you should be saying a lot of things rn
about the people following it

[droog]

Because I'm waiting to see certain interactions.

terrible answer
you have done nothing all game
but be against the 'leading' townies

criticizing me and spip
when we pushed lynches
calling us scum
with strong opinions about everything

and now you're 'waiting'? why?

[droog]

normally if i spent all game
saying everyone else is wrong

and everyone else is proven wrong

i wouldnt 'wait' to have some scumreads

[droog]

Newbie vs Droog reads really obviously Towndroog vs Newbiescum

like some elaboration on this
werent you lynching me last month

[droog]

So I'm caught up for all intents and purposes but my skim has me a little unconfident to take charge. People I'd like to vote right now are Trow, Karnage, Pip, and Newbie, but the cases for all but Karnie make me nervous.

So VOTE: Karnage I guess.

also this
if youre willing to lynch spip
when hes at l-1

iyou need to explain more
about these 'nervous' feelings

[droog]

VOTE: Pip

Me hammer.

wrongheaded as always titus
but that feels town for you

[droog]

He is committing the fallacy of petitio principii (begging the question),

friendly advice
fallacies arent worth a damn

[droog]

Also, I love how you continue to use a color to respond to people that multiple people have said is hard to read. Definitely town motivated to make it difficult for us to go through.

[droog]

caught up

except the spip/egg/trow fights
those are long and kinda boring
will do those some other time

[droog]

speaking of

i want this siip case about
egg/trow/shaddowez
that was promised a few pages ago

not going to defend thta slot atm but
thats really necessary before anyone pushes more
though i fid the weird hanging at l-1 interensting

[droog]

titus is really phoning it in rn
titus where are you
why arent you saying all the wrong things

[droog]

how disappointing
i have a complete entrance
and your only real point is a defense for yourself

not really seeing anything worth my time shadd

[droog]

but wasnt ith the
fake hammer reaction
that sold you

[droog]

sell me on pip
hes agreed with me all game
pushed the right cases

even though they were mislynches
i dont see any good reason to change my mind

[droog]

When pip said no one here does VCA, I knew he was wrong. VCA is my thing.

i also dont see why someone
should have to know
what other people are good at

[droog]

i want his case
on shad/egg/trow

[droog]

i didnt think that was it

[droog]

droog: any particular reason why you want to wait

i was tired yesterday

until after the lynch?

no

[droog]

Droog, do you have a read on Mrtrow or do you need to read his posts towards something pip and myself before committing to one?

i need to read those
though by poe im leaning scum
nothing hes done ive read has earned that

[droog]

so where were you?

do you want my timetables

[droog]

droog

i did not have the time

[droog]

after thinking about it
i want trow's head

[droog]

i might be persuaded there

[droog]

thats what were doing

[droog]

i would deffo lynch newbie

[droog]

[quote="In post 1021, MrTrow"]Care to explain, why at no point during your little (intent to hammer) chat about whether or not pip would deliver on a case he had been sitting on for over a week by that point,

did you have the time

to say 'we still have 3 days, i might want to look into something here'?[/quote

because i was exhausted
after 3 weeks in the hospital
a weekend in the ICU
and being released from the hospital
right in time to rejoin a game thats stalled to death

you wont like my answer
because its not 'game related'
but you asked me a question
that doesnt have 'game related' answers

[droog]

actually im not sure what youre on about
i said i was willing to look into pip yesterday

after coming back into the game ive been pretty apathetic
doubting some of my earlier reads
and i dont see why thats so implausibe

[droog]

As for condescending: really?

[droog]

My motivation is waning. If anyone has any objections to a hammer you've got until I go to work in 8 hours.

i want his case
on shad/egg/trow

[droog]

Fuck I gave y'all till I

got off

work and still nothing.

VOTE: Pip

[droog]

because i didnt really want to
your arguments with egg/spip
were long pedantic and boring

[droog]

982: Droog: nah, there most be more
983: Johnny: not seeing it, tell me where

i love how me saying
'i want to hear more from pip'
in your telling
is responded to with
'droog tell me more about pip'

[droog]

i highly recommend everyone
take a look and trow's iso

there was a time when he thought i was town
for being the only one to make sense
and later seemlessly has me as sure scum

his scumreads have always been convenient lynches
(he thought math was scummy while admitting he hadnt
gone into the math-droog exchange)

he spends a lot of time pushing newbie
but always seems to back off
for other choices

kill it with fire

[droog]

i highly recommend everyone
take a look and trow's iso

there was a time when he thought i was town
for being the only one to make sense
and later seemlessly has me as sure scum

his scumreads have always been convenient lynches
(he thought math was scummy while admitting he hadnt
gone into the math-droog exchange)

he spends a lot of time pushing newbie
but always seems to back off
for other choices

kill it with fire

[droog]

@Droog, if you're at "kill it with fire" levels of confidence on Trow, why aren't you voting him?

i dont rush headlong into action
not my style

i wanto to spend some time
at least figuring out one other
leaning toward newbie

[droog]

I'm pretty sure droog, egg, and Karnage knew what Pip was going to flip.

what is the point of this post

[droog]

so much text says so little

[droog]

but you already did that
you basically just repeated yourself
apropos of nothing

[droog]

Welp. Well here's my reads.

Scum: egg, droog, Karnage


Town: Shadow, Mr. Trow, Titus

This is where I'm at.

I'm pretty sure droog, egg, and Karnage knew what Pip was going to flip.

you havent added any new information
youve just taken another chance to announce
how much you want us dead

[droog]

maybe if you were convincing someone
making arguments
asking questions
canvassing for your canditates

thered be a point to your second post
but there wasnt

[droog]

1033?
im sure you support 1033
i just dont see how that fits in

[droog]

eh nvm thats doesnt really matter

[droog]

really?
You don't see how 'of course he wanted to 'miss the deadline', he knew the pending hammer was on a townie'
fits as an agreement of 'here is the actual timeline, of an attempt to 'miss the deadline' '?

you have to make everything
an argument
even when i said it doesnt matter