Open 623 (White Flag) - A Moment in Time (Over)

[TheCow]

VOTE: AI
first player on the player list is scum 60% of the time, every time.

[TheCow]

VOTE: SS
this is fine

[TheCow]

Phantom why are scum's associatives unpredictable? The mechanic does not even kick in until two scum remain, what makes you think they will play differently with three alive?

Can you rephrase this? It sounds like you're advocating for both sides here.

[TheCow]

That makes far more sense, thank you.

Do you normally find D1 associatives reliable? Associatives before Mafia flips in general? Which and why?

[TheCow]

L-3?

[TheCow]

AI must be a godplayer, three scumgets in three pages

[TheCow]

PC, Cow and Titus can go in the town pile.
SS and Rhazh can go in the scum pile.
Cerberus can be in the null pile alone.

VOTE: Rhazh
Attacking people without voting to support it, making unprompted references to what the scum want or do, inconsistencies in play. Overall feels like he is trying to fit in and play like everyone else is.

what do you make of this, sc?

Cerb, make a few posts. I'm interested in what you sound like.

[TheCow]

Bm attacked me in RVs by lynch Titus b4 she goes into VCA.
When pressured he claimed joke.

ThT is Sudoken

Use your people words, please.

[TheCow]

TheCow: I'm at work, and this is kinda my lowest priority if ya know what I mean.

Nah, I'm just interested in learning your posting style. Its standing out to me.

Ah Titus I understand your pov now.
SirCakez feels off to me.

Define "off"?

Pistachio, your read on Rhazh -- does "wary" mean you're scumleaning the slot, or just looking at it?

[TheCow]

Do you object to my posting a reads list?

It's not the fact that you posted a reads list, it's that it was so early in the game and you didn't give reasons for why you were reading people the way you were. Still, it's content and content is useful, so object isn't the right word.

Pedit @Cow: I'm just looking at it for now--null/weak scrum. It was the first thing that jumped out at me as scummy, but other people were already pointing it out and there wasn't any focus on SirCakez, who seems way scummier.

Those two reads are -- as of right now -- mutually exclusive, I presume?

@AI: SS+Rhaz->PC->Cakez (?)

[TheCow]

What do you mean by mutually exclusive? That I don't think they can't both be scum? I'm not going to do associatives until there's a scumflip. I think Cakez is scummier so that's where my vote is.

That is, those two reads are unrelated to each other at this time. You have one read in one box, and another read in a second box. Either box could go either way right now, but they can't affect each other at this time, being in two different boxes.

Though that last sentence answers my next question, thank you.

[TheCow]

@AI: SS+Rhaz->PC->Cakez (?)

What?

Your read progression.

[TheCow]

Ah Titus I understand your pov now.
SirCakez feels off to me.

I don't like Cakez because he's making unsupported statements while overly explaining his actions. He gives the feeling of scum trying not to stand out.
VOTE: SirCakez

What motivated this flip?

[TheCow]

The actual motivation they have is getting a counterwagon off of your scum butt.

Please rephrase this in a way that makes sense. "They" and "your"?

[TheCow]

Speaking of I'd like to see if there actually are any associative tells against me in 3 pages, because I sure as hell don't see them.

what

I think that's L-2

[TheCow]

maybe they should role claim

[TheCow]

Cerb, SS and Rhaz did the same "joking" tell BM did in Sudoken.

Join me.

Spoiler: quotes

AI must be a godplayer, three scumgets in three pages

I'm the bestest scumhunter in the world.

AI isn't voting scum. I caught two since post 18.

Whatever SS is at, he needs to die like now.

Was me.

I told myself I wouldn't hydra slip with this account. Lmfao.

Lynch SS.

If he flips scum, lynch Rz.

If we cooperate, we may win by post 200.

SS and Rhazh are you two scumgets here, I presume? The first quote here implying that those two, with Cerbs, are your three scumleans/reads?

===

Posting and driving is unsafe, try to avoid dying.

[TheCow]

Spoiler: post 14

I love your avatar, Titus

Question for everyone:
Given that this setup is white flag, what do you think of bussing in this game? Will scum do it? More importantly, would you do it if you were scum?

I loathe bussing, I feel it is inelegant and I prefer to win perfect games. With that said, scum might do it?

What I'm interested in though, is why you're going out of your way to make us especially aware of the bussing possibiity, especially in a game where the setup is named after such tactics. Usually when someone pushes someone elss, it's because they believe they're on opposite teams, but here you're kind of making it seem like a push on someone is just as likely to be a bus attempt as anything else.

Hmm. I don't like the way I phrased the last sentencex but I think you know what I mean.

Cerberus, why no RVS?

I don't vote unless I have a compelling reason to. RVS is dumb, and I also find D1 to be rather uninspiring. I work off hard data that is, flips and dayplay/nightplay when taken in conjunction with the flips we have, to determine which players have taken lines which make compelling arguments that the are scum/others are town, so they must be scum through PoE.

Barring a need to absolutely push a lynch through towards deadline, or someone outright contradicting themselves, it's unlikely you'll see me put a vote down today or develop a hard read on anyone.

Not impossible, mind you. Just unlikely.

-Cerb

This here quote made me interested in Cerberus. The wording a tone plus the length. Ending it on "-Cerb", too.

Spoiler: posts 69,74,86

AI must be a godplayer, three scumgets in three pages

I'm the bestest scumhunter in the world.

AI isn't voting scum. I caught two since post 18.

Whatever SS is at, he needs to die like now.

Was me.

I told myself I wouldn't hydra slip with this account. Lmfao.

Think of it as helping Drixx be a better moderator, now this game will show up for him even when he's in hydra with you.

Also, Titus, I'm pretty sure you're doing that thing I hate where you go off of like, nothing at all, and just decide a buncha people are scum. :-/

Speaking of Titus, who here is familiar with her, besides myself? And SS I guess, since she did say something about not being their IC anymore.

PC, Cow and Titus can go in the town pile.
SS and Rhazh can go in the scum pile.

Cerberus can be in the null pile alone.

YES! SUCK IT BITCHES, I HAVE A ROOM TO MYSELF!

Anyways, so you're buying titus' conclusion that scum totally slipped on P1 of D1?

pedit: hmm. Noted. I need to remind myself of what the hell that was, cause BM was kinda nailed to the wall for a lot more than just one post.

Do you object to my posting a reads list?

84 post reads list. *sigh* This should be entertaining. :p

Weird that you'd ask if anyone objects, I mean...everybody likes getting more content from people that's actually meaningful, town so they can sort them, scum so they can twist it. *shrug*

TheCow: I'm at work, and this is kinda my lowest priority if ya know what I mean.

Ask me stuff though and I'll gladly talk to you about whatever though.

The format is similar, but those things I found interesting are gone. 84 came later with the emotes. I found this bit strange.

The conclusion I drew was that post 14 is far more worked than the other posts an was supposed to be catchier, be this a conscious decision or not. The "-Cerb" bit looks like a habit from playing in hydras. Oddly bulky first post (based on previous games) so the decision was likely conscious. Requires further reading.

[TheCow]

VOTE: AI

Yeah no saying Town are confident isn't a scum tell unless you want to use it to back up a case of IIoA or something. Also your read on me is 100% bullshit fishing for Town cred.

please lynch yourself

[TheCow]

UNVOTE:

[TheCow]

I'll place a vote next major post.

[TheCow]

Intent to vote SS (need to see what the vote number is at).

Did some rereading. Putting Titus and 666 as solid Town at this point. Cakez is null because I have poor experiences attempting to read the guy. I want to call Rhazh scum but I know he's probably just really, really bad.

AI is giving me minor townie vibes, slotting him in my towns. Slotting Yonom as a scumlean, therefore scum. pistachi0n is a black sheep for me, requires meta analysis which I can't be assed to do right now. Slotting EE as scum because of where they stand and shit, some tldr shit right here tbh. Nulling NAN because I'm lazy and don't feel motivated to sort the slot. PC is null, not much from them rn.

I'll elaborate on at least one read, whichever looks the most fruitful when I look again. Gotta go to the library b o i s

[TheCow]

L-2 rn, just gonna leave it where it is rn since I probably still ahve shit to do today

[TheCow]

Slotting Yonom as a scumlean, therefore scum.

I'd like an explanation on this, because I don't quite follow.

I was going to ask SirCakez the same, but they already answered it in their read list. Overall I like it, although I'd put you, SirC, a little bit nearer to the null line. The confidence with titus and I comes off as a bit odd. More on that later.

What I want to focus on right now is AlwaysInnocent and SS. There seems to be something odd in the way they interact with eachother. AI is super convinced that SS is town while SS is (was?) very convinced of the opposite.

So @AlwaysInnocent, mind answering the question I asked you earlier?

@AlwaysInnocent: Recently, you seem sooooo sure about SS being town, I think you should explain to us how you came to this conclusion.

youre scummy so im reading you scum

as a dayvig id 360 noscope droog rn

[TheCow]

v666
Titus
AI
---
Cakez
pistachi0n
---
PC
NAN
Rhazh
EE
---
droog
Yanam
SS

[TheCow]

How is AI top town?

I think they're town with shitty reads.

[TheCow]

[TheCow]

I'm either going to bed or catching up. I haven't decided yet.

[TheCow]

Needless to say, I went to bed. Color coding reads really boils my goose -- whatever that means.

[TheCow]

ill fight you fire

[TheCow]

I started doing a reread and take my super detailed notes that I like doing sometimes. I decided to stop when it took me 40 minutes to get to post 15.

[TheCow]

15 minutes of that was me looking up epic poetry to figure out of Cerberus is truly a dog of the devil, or a dog placed there by God to keep the damned trapped in hell.

[TheCow]

Cow can you put down a vote like you said you would days ago?

Spoiler: stuff

##V Rhazh->SC ; Titus->SS
PNAA-?general [tactic spec, "what do you think of bussing in this game?", "would you do it if you were scum?"] Q1
PCakez-?PCerb [no RVS] Q2
PSS-!PNAA, Q1 ["Yeah, scum might do it. I probably wouldn't...but [if my partner was dead anyway]"] A1.1
PRhazh-!PNAA, Q1 [Sarcastic affirmation] A1.2
PPC-!PRhazh, A1.2 [Disapproval]
PCerb-!PNAA, Q1 [Disapproval of bussing,"with that said, scum might do it?" | question motivations] A1.3
PCerb-!PCakez, Q2 ["I don't vote unless I havea compelling reason to.] A2 | Cakez waves.
##V PYon->PAI
PYon-!PNAA, Q1 ["I don't think mafia are going to bus early ... doesn't seem like good strategy."]

[TheCow]

Nulling the slot, haven't seen enough yet.

[TheCow]

I want to see SS's role.

[TheCow]

I'm allergic to responsibility.

[TheCow]

Oh, The Cow is in this game.

I wouldn't mind policy lynching him as well.

Only two lynches I'll consider today; I still don't think Cakez is scum.

[TheCow]

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

[TheCow]

The fact Cow still hasn't placed a vote irritates me.
Pretty sure Viva vs Titus is T v T honestly.

The fact that you just casually called something TvT irritates me :^)

I want to see SS flip to put Titus' push into perspective. I don't like how Titus is presenting his arguments. I feel like Viva is trying to shoe horn a Titus lynch -- in a way more subtle than the "lets vote titus" sorta way.

I'm liking neither Viva nor titus right now. They're both maneuvering into weird positions that make me uncomfortable.

I haven't manuevered at all. My reads are pretty static.

Lynch SS.

"Maneuver" as an abstract. This word play. Does maneuver have a connotation that I'm not aware of?

[TheCow]

Went back to see what "224" is. Decided to reread Hamlet's Soliloquy instead. rip in peace, oh poor yorkick

[TheCow]

I vaguely sense hostility from yonam towards me. Weird shit, man.

[TheCow]

Cakez if I get lynched and flip town will you want to lynch Titus then? Because my fear is that her tunnel on me will lead to tunnels on her when EE was far more scummy in his attacks on me.

This attitude makes no sense to me. Its the weirdest part of this wagon.

[TheCow]

Dissolving my reads lists until I reread.

[TheCow]

My PoV, I don't want to sort Titus proper yet. I'm still letting the read incubate properly. I want to figure out the strange SS->Titus relation first.

[TheCow]

If SS does flip town somehow then I would obviously reevaluate my reads. My reads right now are based on SS being scum.

why

[TheCow]

If SS does flip town somehow then I would obviously reevaluate my reads. My reads right now are based on SS being scum.

why

The only read I would be less certain of should ss flip town is Titus, and that's to a small extent. Oh, and Razh too.

Was Rhazh an afterthought? Why and how?

[TheCow]

Asbit stands, a SS lynch would bring us somewhere I want to be.

[TheCow]

Asbit stands, a SS lynch would bring us somewhere I want to be.

Then why haven't you voted him?

I'm not done yet.

[TheCow]

If it comes to it, I'll hammer the SS wagon to take responsibility for my intent to vote. I don't want to vote right now.

[TheCow]

PC looks like he's setting up future reads. He has two nulls. Might as well have PoEd a town and scum. I don't like it.

Cakez, your taste in reads are shit.

[TheCow]

tldr

[TheCow]

Lying about what?

[TheCow]

SS's flailing looks like it's from town. I'm not voting that.

[TheCow]

Fight me. It's like kicking a puppy.

[TheCow]

I don't know what you're asking me, so I'm going to go back to sleeping.

[TheCow]

Increase post volume. I smell desperation.

[TheCow]

Eh, fuck it.
VOTE: ss

[TheCow]

I don't feel like playing right now. I'll play later.

[TheCow]

A man does what he says he's going to do.

[TheCow]

not sure how one messes pk and pistachio up.

[TheCow]

Where was Rhazh's vote at the end of the day?

[TheCow]

ah the VC has the old names in them

[TheCow]

I'm going somewhere with this.

[TheCow]

These VCs are unreadable. Looks like there was never a real counterwagon in the first place, though.

FB looks town, Pistachio looks scum, EE looks scum.

Droog's death looks like it was supposed to be inoffensive.

[TheCow]

VOTE: pistachio

[TheCow]

The counter-wagon was SirCakez.

The wagon dissolved around 700. Day one was about 800 posts long.

[TheCow]

No to the first wagon. Maybe to the second. I still like this better:

VOTE: firebringer

YOu have to be scum or trash to think FB is the best lynch right now. Pick one.

[TheCow]

I'm pretty sure on-site meta is more applicable :^)

[TheCow]

This is scum Cow, I've seen it several times offsite. Fake scumhunting, extremely disinterested in the game, loads of shitposts, prodging frequently.

Except you've flaked all of those games and those were all town games.

[TheCow]

If you want to use meta to accuse me, at least provide links. I might have to bring up CFM13 to show why your reads are unreliable :^)

[TheCow]

is scum!pistachio real life or do i need to do work on this

[TheCow]

Not sure how SC falls into my my theory.

[TheCow]

why

[TheCow]

I'm down to wagon EE

[TheCow]

I like how he only mentions this after Viva places a vote.

How can you play Mafia if you aren't even literate?

[TheCow]

VOTE: titus

[TheCow]

I'll sheep FB to the ends of the earth

[TheCow]

the earths end outside of my lynch pool btw

[TheCow]

what're our leading wagons rn

[TheCow]

"Lynch me if I'm wrong" isn't alignment indicative. Its indicative of conviction which is, coupled with other factors, indicative.

[TheCow]

Pistachio, EE, Titus mafia

[TheCow]

We wagon Viva when Titus flips town, yeah?

I would go with EE if Titus flips town. But I don't think Titus is going to flip town.

[TheCow]

Titus, why did you ignore all the towntells on Something_Smart when he was being lynched? You still have not answered this very important question.

What kind of question is this?

[TheCow]

No, I'm blind, send help.

What kind of answer are you looking for? "I ignored the towntells because I'm obviously scum"? "I was ignoring the towntells because I thought he was scummy"? "There were no towntells, this question is bullshit and you're bullshit"?

[TheCow]

I was being rhetorical. The question itself is really the bullshit thing here. How do you call that an interrogation?

[TheCow]

lol ee

[TheCow]

Disappointingly enough, my vote is already on the board :/

[TheCow]

ee hammer please

[TheCow]

The only fun wagons are fast wagons :^(

[TheCow]

Titus, talk about pistachio.

[TheCow]

UNVOTE:

[TheCow]

ee how many games have you played?

[TheCow]

do you normally play this poorly?

[TheCow]

VOTE: ee

safer

[TheCow]

i'll hammer titus if you convince people to vote it

[TheCow]

what questoin

[TheCow]

those are crappy questions

[TheCow]

ee is either scum or bad t b.h

[TheCow]

Its about sending a message

Scum.

[TheCow]

I'm also bad k e k

[TheCow]

That's my answer

[TheCow]

VOTE: titus

[TheCow]

prodge, probably

[TheCow]

What's the story behind this Fire wagon?

[TheCow]

kaag's reads are crap, I don't understand them

[TheCow]

Responding

[TheCow]

I got this

[TheCow]

I'll probably catch up today. From my reading, this game is getting stagnant.

[TheCow]

I read up on the Fire wagon. I do not understand it. It was a vote move, but I don't see why.

[TheCow]

VOTE: fb

[TheCow]

k

[TheCow]

VOTE: titus

[TheCow]

probably

[TheCow]

cakez or titus idc

[TheCow]

I can't be scum with Titus. Not sure why Cerb is parking his vote on me.

[TheCow]

I can't be scum with Titus. Not sure why Cerb is parking his vote on me.

who ARE you scum with then?

u

[TheCow]

What's the difference between a lol hammer and a quick hammer?

[TheCow]

I'd hammer if I weren't on the wagon. We have the game figured out so freelo b o i s

[TheCow]

its weird that my hammers are being called "lolhammers", but people are trying to use them against me -- why aren't they being called quickhammers?

[TheCow]

its weird that my hammers are being called "lolhammers", but people are trying to use them against me -- why aren't they being called quickhammers?

The first time you quickhammered, you townread Something_Smart. Suddenly you said "fuck it", and hammered him anyway. This is what I call a lolhammer. A quickhammer (while being bad) can be well motivated and consistent with the hammerer's play. A lolhammer is just bad in every sense.

My point exactly.

[TheCow]

Reiterate for me: what's the case being made against me? My meaning should already be quite clear.

Saying I'm scum for lolhammering is as lolzy as the hammer itself.

[TheCow]

Yes and no. Hammering a player is the single most satisfying action one can take, outside of gladiating or dayvigging.

Days 1 and 2 had grown stagnant, so I ended them.

[TheCow]

Responding, playing now.

[TheCow]

I need to do some research.

[TheCow]

I say Karnage is our lynch today. I'm sure you all in the vote pool can agree with me that it makes the most sense.

[TheCow]

I need to do more thinking on this.

[TheCow]

Yeah Karnage is definitely scum here. He's brought up the night kills twice now and I don't think he's addressed anyone but me the entire day.

so we shouldn't consider that both KAAG and EE (who are confirmed town) thought you were scum?

That's likely why they were killed. I've been saying since yesterday scum were setting me up to be the LyLo mislynch and the EE kill continues that theory. This would be asinine scum play to kill all of my accusers. Like Viva said, the night kill last night didn't make much sense.

How do you feel about Cerb lynch?

[TheCow]

After Karnage and Cerb are dead, I presume you would be lynching me, cakez?

What about you, Cerb?

[TheCow]

You have Pistachio pegged as town, yes?

[TheCow]

What are the odds that scum buses?

[TheCow]

pistachio, which three players are scum?

[TheCow]

I also do not understand how the identity of Viva changes anything.

[TheCow]

Cerb is our lynch today.

[TheCow]

Cerb is safer.

[TheCow]

Cakez, remind me: which three players are scum?

Viva, I'll put my cards on the table when I'm ready

[TheCow]

Cakez is confirmed scum, moving on.

[TheCow]

VOTE: sircakez

[TheCow]

UNVOTE: ;-;

[TheCow]

What's your Pist read?

Cakez and Cerb both folded on him. Feels more likely than karnage. By PoE alone, Karnage is town and pistachio is scum. Reads back this up.

[TheCow]

Yes, I'm down for the Cakez lynch. He's pretty much confirmed scum.

[TheCow]

n

[TheCow]

Who

isn't

scum?

[TheCow]

zzz