Open 634: Sharing is Caring (Game Over)

Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:40 pm

First post.

Post Post #5 (isolation #1) » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:42 pm

Also VOTE: Aneninen

Spoiler: because

Post Post #7 (isolation #2) » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:48 pm

Hyper aggressiveness is not necessarily a good strategy to adopt. Usually it gets on people's nerves and they stop listening to you regardless of how correct you are. A more political approach tends to work better as town and scum as such. Some players manage to intimidate the town info working together like ABR but that's another matter.

Post Post #13 (isolation #3) » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:14 pm

In post 11, Clumsy wrote:
In post 10, BlacleWorks wrote:Voting for me? Im CONFTOWN from where I'm sitting. Take them crap shoots back to the gotham alleyways. lol

Chill out Joe. And we're all Conftown from where we're sitting.

VOTE: Alexcellent

That... -horrible- pun of a name. Get outta here.

Possible town-slip?
Scum aren't town from where they are sitting.
(This isn't serious to be honest)

Also BW, anen wil understand why I posted a pigeon.

Post Post #21 (isolation #4) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:14 am

Hey, KT. Remember what we talked about regarding all caps?
If your town and willing to listen I can try and help you improve your town game while I'm alive.

Also no policy lynches please, I don't care how valid it is I'm not having it.

Post Post #24 (isolation #5) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:41 am

Persivul, Kain is in this game and if he is town then good play aids us in general. Also avoiding a potential policy lynch on a potential town helps us as well.

Post Post #35 (isolation #6) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:25 am

In post 25, Maxous wrote:
In post 9, Alexcellent wrote:Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this either

vote: Alexcellent

Why?

Post Post #36 (isolation #7) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:28 am

In post 27, KainTepes wrote:hello wgeurst, I will be AVOIDING the capital letters thing,, and I believe i am playing better now than my first game MICRO KIDS WITH GUNS.

I am town and I will catch scum because i am a very aggressive player,, I caught 2 scum out of 3 in DETECTIVE CONAN MAFIA, very happy

Try and not use capitals in posts besides names and sentence starts though. It generally will make people act less irritated towards you. When you place a vote try and explain why you are placing it where you are. Then try and discuss and see if what you think is as strong as you think. Doing this not only will make you generally more rational but will also improve your game.

Also voting less frequently may help.

Post Post #37 (isolation #8) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:30 am

In post 28, KainTepes wrote:will you WAGON shotty with me, wgeursts?

Eh, why not?
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
That name is going to be a pain with the automatic votecount lol

Post Post #38 (isolation #9) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:31 am

In post 29, Aneninen wrote:VOTE: Wgeurts

because of the cheapest and laziest RVS ever and

Spoiler:

I told you this has been the laziest one ever!

OMGUS at its finest, now tell me, are you town or scum this game?
We could resurrect Young & Beautiful partially if the former and use this thread as our Team PT if you're the former.

Post Post #39 (isolation #10) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:33 am

In post 33, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 20, KainTepes wrote:VOTE: shotty

calling me a VI implies that you know I am town........ can you explain how you know that?

I said VI not TI. Scum live in the village too. Also believe it or not you don't become any less of an idiot just because you are scum.

Village Idiot is often used as a reference to town but *shrug*

I just realised texcat is in this game, so many people I haven't played with since I stopped being generally awful.

Post Post #40 (isolation #11) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:34 am

Also Maxous, are you an Advance Wars fan?
I'll stop my spam here now.

Post Post #59 (isolation #12) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:46 pm

I have two things to say really:
One, texcat bringing the wagon to 4 in RVS really is completely null and will remain so until late-game where it can be sapped for minor associative-tells. As scum there's really no need to do so as any more experienced player will know that RVS wagons won't end in a lynch and if you force them to become one it's effectively suicide. Because of this I see no explanation why texcat would have voted like this as scum besides her being not as experienced, which ,although I haven't played with her for a year, I doubt as she's been around the site for a while now.

Two, I honestly can't see much of a scum motivation for shorty pushing the Village Idiot thing. Once again although I don't know her/his (Which should I use?) play he has been around since the 2010 so he should have a certain level of experience. Why then as scum should you throw yourself into a spotlight for absolutely no reason? Honestly I would have expected scum to drop the point to avoid further attention, not continuing pushing something people are stating they dislike. For this I'm willing to give minor town points to shorty, thus I need to unvote... sorry Kain!
UNVOTE:

Post Post #60 (isolation #13) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:48 pm

I would like to say that I'm not calling you shorty shotty but that's my phone being a stereotypical phone.

Post Post #62 (isolation #14) » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:09 pm

I'm also starting to think that more experienced players should be read off individual actions and newer players as a body-of-work. The more experienced a player gets the more they will make town posts as scum, the fact that a town post comes from scum doesn't mean there will be anything scummy in it. Therefore you really need to read experienced players off those small slip-ups they make here and there, and not on how town they look in genuine. Newer players fail to hide things as easily thus are much better read with a "does their general play look opportunistic" sort of view. This is also the reason why doing some stuff as a newer player can be indictative of alignment but a lot more is null for better players.
#TheoryBash

Post Post #71 (isolation #15) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:49 am

Who are your top-three town reads right now. If you can't think of any act as if someone's sticking a gun to your head and give three names off the top of your head.

Post Post #76 (isolation #16) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:35 am

Can you also confirm whether or not the scum driving that got away with it?

Post Post #79 (isolation #17) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:08 am

In post 78, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 76, wgeurts wrote:Can you also confirm whether or not the scum driving that got away with it?

All I'm saying is that driving a person to L-3 unwarranted is anti-town. However, it is also suspicious. I'm not going so far as to say it's scum driven, but I don't think I can read anyone on that bandwagon (especially the latter half) town.

L-3 is nothing, L-2 is eh. Really putting someone at L-1 is anti-town but I still stand that it isn't suspicious unless we're speaking of an inexperienced player. Which texcat is apparently not.

Post Post #80 (isolation #18) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:10 am

What I'm trying to figure out is whether you're trying a faulty push or you're genuinely freaking out about this as town. How much experience do you have with mafia Kuroi?

Post Post #81 (isolation #19) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:12 am

In post 56, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 54, texcat wrote:My vote was strictly an RVS vote for the hat. I still hate the hat, but
UNVOTE: .

You saw three votes on someone and you decided, "Hey, let's just RVS this guy. That's not scummy at all?"

Like this just seems wrong. Why would scum do something blatantly scummy if they knew it was blatantly scummy? Wouldn't you agree that's the kind of thing they would want to avoid?

What's your read on texcat kuroi?

Post Post #92 (isolation #20) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:08 pm

In post 82, Masquerade wrote:
In post 71, wgeurts wrote:Who are your top-three town reads right now. If you can't think of any act as if someone's sticking a gun to your head and give three names off the top of your head.

You, Blacle and Kuroi.
Just one question: Why did you point out a possible townslip?
But I like that you're sort of taking the lead and I don't expect scum to do that. Is this something you do as scum as well?

In post 81, wgeurts wrote:Why would scum do something blatantly scummy if they knew it was blatantly scummy? Wouldn't you agree that's the kind of thing they would want to avoid?

No such thing as 'too scummy to be scum'. Good scum would actually be able to fake those kind of things. I'm not going to townread tex for what she did, I think it's null.

I haven't drawn scum in forever, check my wiki if you really need details for games. Also I'm arguing that tex's actions are null, some seem to find them scummy.

Post Post #93 (isolation #21) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:10 pm

In post 87, KuroiXHF wrote:
In post 86, SirCakez wrote:RVS wagons form all the time, not indicative.

It is sometimes indicative and always anti-town.

I disagree, they produce content and gain momentum.

Post Post #94 (isolation #22) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:12 pm

Kuroi if you're town please reread texcats post and take a really good look. That was not a scum over the top defense. Also defending ones self is once again also not a scum tell. It's going "over the top" in your defense displaying over-confidence and/or paranoia that is scummy.

Post Post #96 (isolation #23) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:28 pm

If anything I'm leaning towards calling kurois push town. He's not dropping it despite the obvious traction against it and I believe it's more a case of mistaken logic or confirmation-bias. I'm not saying texcat is town though, she at least isn't scum for the reasons kuroi is giving. If we see him tunneling and coasting off this read for the remainder of the day then some red flags can be raised.

The fact that he's a lone-wolf isn't alignment indicative in my opinion. Opportunism as scum wouldn't be strongarming a read, more accepting a push someone else is leading. Scum of cause know that so they'll be trying to avoid that more so than town out of paranoia. The fact people aren't opportunistically jumping to pushes isn't really alignment indicative as such, maybe later when we have some flips.

Post Post #97 (isolation #24) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:30 pm

To address what seems like a contradiction in my post by "lone-wolf" I mean that others aren't jumping to his aid.

Post Post #101 (isolation #25) » Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:55 pm

Building wagon and pressuring people makes more content allowing us to read each other better. Why the Max vote?
I'm awaiting a response from texcat as well.

Post Post #108 (isolation #26) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:21 am

I don't have any scum-reads to push right now Aneninen, it's going to be one of those games... Plenty of beginning town-reads though.

Post Post #111 (isolation #27) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:44 am

Took the time to ISO to point out why I'm lacking reads. Post more people please.

Aneninen

No real content, pushes or anything really from this slot. I know Anen is a pretty good player so if he keeps lurking for long I'm going to have to pressure him out of hibernation.

drmyshottyizsik

No real content either, just a policy lynch like thing towards KT which I can't assign to any alignment.

Clumsy

Surprise surprise, also doesn't have much content. A few empty questions and that weak (not)town-slip as his first post.

Alexcellent

My golly. Another content-less ISO. Two posts, one being an RVS and the other a question. Honestly I could place a null-scum read here as his only other non RVS post was him only caring about the people who didn't like him. Like he literally didn't do anything else.

KainTepes

Same erratic self I saw last time I played with her so she can be town for now.

texcat

Nothing particularly town here, interest in setup-spec is a little eh. Scum like seeming useful through setup-speculation when in reality they're not aiding anyone. Would like to get some reads from her.

Masquerade

Asking questions and has done more than others figuring-stuff-out wise so he can be null-town for all it's worth.

KuroiXHF

I currently believe Kuroi is town pushing someone for the wrong reasons and starting to get caught in a tunnel. I've explained why in earlier posts.

Persivul

Nothing much here and not as active as usual except I know that life's giving him lemons so I guess that explains why partially.

BlacleWorks

I have got my own official fan boy which is a big mistake as I'm not some mafia god. Whether or not he's buddying me as scum because I sound convincing and am drawing all the wrong conclusion is a thought I'm trying to suppress until we have some flips. Really it's null right now. He's made some flawed points but I believe he stated this was his first non-newbie game so I'm going to wait and observe his play to see if any patterns arise.

Maxous

Leaning town on Max right now, may just be a bias due to him being an AW fan but hey.

wgeurts

You better believe it town.

SirCakez

Not much from this slot either. Would like to get some reads from SC soon.

VOTE: Alexcellent
As I literally have nothing better than this vote right now. Alex, care to provide your thoughts on the game right now as well as explain why you're only focused those that didn't like your only other post?

Post Post #125 (isolation #28) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:21 am

I'm so confused right now and feel like I really should be voting BW for the above.

Post Post #126 (isolation #29) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:21 am

Like I don't know what's worse, the admitting of buddying or the "lets go to lylo".

Post Post #127 (isolation #30) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:22 am

Or the "I'm making a bullshit push, join me scum".
VOTE: BW

Post Post #128 (isolation #31) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:22 am

I'll make a more detailed post when not on a mobile device

Post Post #151 (isolation #32) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:46 pm

We can also vote clumsy if anyone's up for that. Today I'll explain both once I'm free.

Post Post #158 (isolation #33) » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:59 pm

You do know KT is rather young?

Post Post #182 (isolation #34) » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:36 pm

I've been away today and yesterday hence the lack of activity. I'll try to post this afternoon/evening as I have some thoughts I want to explain.

Post Post #187 (isolation #35) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:03 am

Back and doing what I promised. I've reread clumsy's posts and I'm not feeling that as scum anymore. I saw a "why me fry me" tell in there before and I apparently read the rest of his posts with a bias after that, ignoring that now there's honestly not too really see as scum-motivated.

Post Post #188 (isolation #36) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:18 am

Okay here is my case on BW:

Why y'all should be voting this guy:

Everything before post 123 by him is decent albeit a little odd with the way he buddys the hell out of me. If people are seeing scum-motivated stuff in this alone they need to get their eyes checked. It's his most recent posts which are bothering me. Staring with, well... post 123.

In post 123, BlacleWorks wrote:Whoa whoa I'm not a fan boy, I'm clearly buddying Wgeurts. 2 reasons, to test the effects of buddying from my perspective and to see if anyone is gonna call me out on it

Well 3 reasons really but the 3rd kind of tips my hand much more than is necessary to appear as if I'm being oh so transparent. I'm getting the reaction that I assumed would be most likely, "this newb doesn't know hes doing bad stuff I guess."

Also if we are paying attention to my actions and the BS I make up without anyone asking me to do so. I am trying to create a wagon on Maxous for close to no solid reasons. And too my surprise everyone is still being very cautious and not supporting it. Dear scum if your plan is to be perfect town and avoid getting caught, Like I already put it out there. Games gonna come to MyLo/LyLo anyhow. Stop stalling and get this show on the road.

LOL kuroi. Politely ignore my typo's like a GentileIt.

To start off with it's really off that he instantly tries to justify buddying me once people start getting suspicious about it, the reasons he gives for his justification aren't even good. "To test the effects of buddying" and "see if anyone is going to call me out" are honestly not things I would expect to come from somebody this invested in a game with a town role-PM. Why would you want to intentionally do something scummy as town to "see if anyone calls you out"? He doesn't even say what "effects" he observed through his little experiment which is rather condemning. His third point is completely off, why all the cloak and dagger? Really why is he testing the boundaries of what he can get away with along with his label of a newer player? Doesn't sit well with me.

He's also literally admitted to making up his whole push on Maxous and calls it BS himself. Why the hell do you as town make up crumpets and push someone? Then

also

say you're surprised nobody is joining you. What kind of town-motivated mindset is that?! The cherry on the top is the "dear scum I've given a way for you to appear town let's all go to lylo and loose ladeedaadeedah". If this isn't enough for a vote I honestly don't know what is day 1.

His other posts consist of him saying "hey y'all, join my push that has no justification; you've got nothing to lose anyway!" and "hey guys do you spot why my Anen vote is wrong cus there's something wrong about it". Sorry if I'm mad to declare this isn't what town should be thinking.

Post Post #189 (isolation #37) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:19 am

To me this looks a newer player attempting to look insanely town and catching scum with some whizz-never-heard-of-before methods but is just entangling himself in his own narration.

Post Post #192 (isolation #38) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:12 am

In post 190, drmyshottyizsik wrote:
In post 189, wgeurts wrote:To me this looks a newer player attempting to look insanely town and catching scum with some whizz-never-heard-of-before methods but is just entangling himself in his own narration.

It deffinetly been done before. However I'd like to focus on this post of yours. Where is your motivation for this post it seems like filler and an attempt to look useful.

This is what we could a stream-of thought post which if you look at any of my games you'll see I do a lot. I add info or things I missed in separate posts. This one happens to be a TL;DR of sorts or a conclusion.

Post Post #193 (isolation #39) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:14 am

In post 191, Clumsy wrote:
In post 187, wgeurts wrote:Back and doing what I promised. I've reread clumsy's posts and I'm not feeling that as scum anymore. I saw a "why me fry me" tell in there before and I apparently read the rest of his posts with a bias after that, ignoring that now there's honestly not too really see as scum-motivated.

So you're just saying that you're just reading it the other way? Nothing wrong with that, reads change, even on the same posts. But you did seem pretty confident on that, just casually throwing out the possibility of lynching me today, which would be a very bad idea.

I was reading up on my mobile and saw your wall. Originally the way you handled some accusations originally felt off and I came across a tell I often apply. Upon a deeper look now I no longer see what I saw.

Post Post #194 (isolation #40) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:22 am

Like if you insist I can go ahead and make a wall explaining my prior thoughts and what caused my change. I'd rather have people focus on BW right now though. All those not voting him should be explaining why as a case has been revealed. Town should work together to discuss and form reads, if someone makes a case you should either be explaining it's flaws or supporting it.

Post Post #200 (isolation #41) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:27 pm

I'm even more happy with my vote. BW just displayed unnecessary paranoia of those mainly pushing him (if you want a defensive over the top reaction well there you go kuroi), complete misrepresentation of my case and strawnanning to look as if he's refuting it while in reality now he's only make a lot of noise and a perfect example of a scum OMGUS.

For example, if he were town the correct way to act would have been more along the lines of trying to explain why the case was wrong calmly and then going onto interact with me try to show me his line of thought so that if I'm town I can correct my read. Instead he suddenly flips on me (love it how this only happens AFTER I posted my case) from insane town to scum.

Me fence-sitting? Lol
I'm the only one besides possibly kuroi pushing someone.

The last paragraph is utter crumpets and by his own logic I wouldn't be resisting him as scum so it just goes to show how much utter crap he's posting. How many lies, inconsistentcies and made-up hoola are we going to tolerate?

Post Post #201 (isolation #42) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:28 pm

Like when I'm not on my phone Ill got ahead an shred that response to pieces.

I love it when I think I'm right.

Post Post #202 (isolation #43) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:29 pm

In post 200, wgeurts wrote:I'm even more happy with my vote. BW just displayed unnecessary paranoia of those mainly pushing him (if you want a defensive over the top reaction well there you go kuroi), complete misrepresentation of my case and strawnanning to look as if he's refuting it while in reality now he's only make a lot of noise and a perfect example of a scum OMGUS.

For example, if he were town the correct way to act would have been more along the lines of trying to explain why the case was wrong calmly and then going onto interact with me try to show me his line of thought so that if I'm town I can correct my read. Instead he suddenly flips on me (love it how this only happens AFTER I posted my case) from insane town to scum.

Me fence-sitting? Lol
I'm the only one besides possibly kuroi pushing someone.

The last paragraph is utter crumpets and by his own logic I wouldn't be resisting him as scum so it just goes to show how much utter crap he's posting. How many lies, inconsistentcies and made-up hoola are we going to tolerate?

Kuroi thoughts on BW now.

Post Post #203 (isolation #44) » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:29 pm

Darn phantom quotes

Post Post #206 (isolation #45) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:54 am

In post 196, BlacleWorks wrote:Don't drink and mafia unless your a professional. If you can't see it masquerade I'm just going to add you to the people who have no memory of what has been posted.

Here we see Blacle directly insulting my play and making me look bad. Makes me seem less trustworthy doesn't it? Go read again and really try a see where he provides evidence for his claims, you'll see he doesn't give any. Hence scum love doing this, they are able to break cases without actually having to refute them while making the person attacking them seem less town. Brilliant for scum, as town you have no reason to do this kind of thing.

That being said I catch all "mistakes" and count them as Lies. I can cloak and dagger all I want. It helps me get reads and I am town and gettting reads is all I can do so If I get lynched for playing differently than you then so be it. Your just not mature enough to read intent.

He's basically saying here that he's town here and as such everything he does has a reason. He fails to actually give any reasons thus it's just some awful facade to aid what seems to be a botched narration. The misrep at the end is also neat. Notice the change in tone in this post as well, when pressured he suddenly comes out all guns blazing and lashes back. A town player would have no reason to be aggressive, they should try and interact by showing where their attacker went wrong. That's how a good town should function; working together.

The best you could hope to pin on me at this point is "sewing confusion." Except I am not the traps are obvious and only scum would entertain them because scum is looking to push a myslynch while town is looking to actually catch scum. In a sense I am the bait. The bait is obvious. And scum cannot and will not resist me. Unless scum is better than I thought. And if thats the case I already in over my head. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Completely ignores my case and says I'm pushing him for "sewing confusion" which if you read my case you'll see is complete crumpets. Strawman; trying to make my case look like something else to shoot that fake image down. Also no reason to do that as town. By his own logic I should be town as well as "scum ... will not resist me" as I obviously am. "I have nothing to lose" is also worrying, getting lynched as any alignment is worrisome, especially as town.

VOTE: Wgeurts

Not scumhunting. General Fence sitting. Pushing a lynch on me for anyreason but, "BW exhibits scum intent." This vote is serious.

Suddenly I went from hardcore town to scum. It's even better though, his reasons are pure crumpets. "Not scumhunting", what do you call the case on you then? "General Fence sitting", I'm the one spurring people on to form reads and the one who most vocally voiced mine early-game. "Pushing a lynch on me for anyreason but, 'BW exhibits scum intent.'" my case was literally pure "BW exhibits scum intent" so another strawman.

And with that, unless he can logically refute my claims or someone can point out where I'm going wrong, I've shown why he is likely scum. Anyone who ignores this is suspect, town should discuss and if a case is presented it should either be refuted or supported. Period.

Post Post #212 (isolation #46) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:01 am

In post 211, Masquerade wrote:Even though I really do not like what Blacle is doing, I don't think he's scum anymore. Went through his iso and this

In post 63, BlacleWorks wrote:I don't like that I'm agreeing with what wgeurts is saying. Its almost like hes forcing me to town read him by giving generally useful advice. Stop manipulating me!
[ unvote][/unvote]

shows that he already had some suspicion to wgeurts.
It's also not the first time I played with an idiot that thinks it's a good idea to make himself look like lynchbait, so there's that.

That post was obviously sarcasm. "Its almost like hes forcing me to town read him by giving generally useful advice. Stop manipulating me!" is literally saying "this guy is being pro-town" in a joking manner. Not to mention he stated his town-read after that (literally his next post) post here:

In post 95, BlacleWorks wrote:P-Edit:
Thats it, Wgeurts I never get town reads this fast, FOS on you for being too good to be true!

Point refuted. Now where am I going wrong then if he is town mas?

Post Post #213 (isolation #47) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:14 am

In post 207, BlacleWorks wrote:You were never town from my POV. I have plans within plans. You were better earlier in the game about not getting full of yourself when I was buddying, I will give you town cred for that. Not enough tho. My vote isn't OMGUS... I gave my reasons you can disagree with them all you like

The don't drink and mafia was aimed at Masquerade............................ um...... what?... lol

I'll admit I overlooked that, you did try and misrep me later anyway so the point in itself remains valid though.

The reason for the cloak and dagger is stated. It helps me get reads... um lol what are you doing Wgeurts? Are you reading what you are typing lol

And I've already mentioned the it looks like a failed attempt to justify your actions with a narration you botched terribly.

I said the best you could do. Your not doing the best.

I'm on fire baby.

Your not pushing me for sewing confusion... wth is going on here lol You are not resisting anything, you're pushing me. I am the bait that you cannot resist.... LOL um no I don't care If I get lynched as town. As scum I care... And I wouldnt make it appear as if I cared anyway so please tell me again why I am supposed to care about being lynched when I can win from the Grave Yard as Town?

I'm not sure why you mentioned "The best you could hope to pin on me at this point is 'sewing confusion.'" when defending yourself then. If you happened to mangle your English here though; no worries. You attempted to change what my case looked like later anyway sooooo the point remains valid. Stop nit-picking and start explaining why you're doing stuff (with logic, evidence and whatever) instead of making empty claims and ignoring literally my entire case.

You were fence sitting until you started pushing me. I am making myself an easy myslynch target for scum and your pushing me... LOL

Yeah, darn people with weak reads during RVS and the few events after that right? It's also not true as I never waffled on a single player, I gave concrete reads on everyone with additional explanations and evidence to back them up. That's not fence-sitting. That's the opposite of fence-sitting.

The only person that can discredit you Wgeurts is you. You might want to ask for clarification if your not following what I'm saying because you have litterally attempted to refute none of my case against you except for the fence sitting part.

I literally went through your entire post and responded to every point you gave me.

Every single one.

This is a lie.

Lynch Wgeurts today! If I somehow get lynched today (I dont see this happening) Lynch Wgeurts tomorrow lol.

I'm willing to wager on this, help me put then by easing your lynch.

In post 208, BlacleWorks wrote:Sir cakez are you scum number 3? LOL I doubt all of the scum is gonna jump on this wagon; that's suicide...

"Let's scum read everyone who attacks me, that way nobody will believe them. BWAHAHAH I'm so cunning!"
Scum-reading those that attack you is a common scum player literally done all the time everywhere since forever. Know what town would do? They would interact with those on their wagon while explaining where their attackers are going wrong. They give alternative options, reads, evidence, anything. They don't sit around being cocky and trying to frame all those that come after them.

In post 209, BlacleWorks wrote:I mean your saying a whole lot of nothing Wgeurts. Town can be played aggressively lol. How you can even assert that town has no reason to be agressive is a red flag. I'm not even being aggressive yet.

You refuted every part of that post that had nothing to do with you. All of it was directed at Masquerade. Everything under my vote was directed at you... Maybe it will become more clear to you if you look at the post like that.

This is a fun game so fart

I'm not saying aggressive=scum, I've already provided the context in how this aggressiveness is out of place.

In post 210, BlacleWorks wrote:FART!!?!?!? LOL... More votes on Wgeurts please.

Post Post #214 (isolation #48) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:17 am

The resistance to wagoning this player who has blatantly lied, behaved anti-town, admitted to making up cases on people and literally stated he doesn't care how many town get lynched we're all going to lylo anyway is astonishing.

Post Post #227 (isolation #49) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:55 pm

Will respond to that wall with yet another shredder.
One thing I would already like to note is that it contains yet more narration changes. He said his (not) sarcastic post was serious yet he literally states I'm a strong town-read in his next post. That's a contradiction in his narration.

Post Post #228 (isolation #50) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:58 pm

Also BW it's time to claim now.

Post Post #229 (isolation #51) » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:59 pm

Refuse and I honestly couldn't care less if someone hammers you.

Post Post #235 (isolation #52) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:48 am

Mate, I'm probably dying tonight.

Post Post #236 (isolation #53) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:53 am

UNVOTE:
Everybody confirm you're not the vigilante. We're not lynching an uncounter-claimed power role.

We have a week left, if BW is being truthful then nobody will counter and he is town. JK should definitely target him to then keep a confirmed town alive and prevent him from taking a stupid shot as I don't trust him with a gun. BW, if you're the vig then you shouldn't shoot as the JK will block you, thus meaning you waste a town shot.

I'll reread later and reform reads based of the assumption nobody will counter-claim him. If someone does CC then we lynch BW anyway.

Post Post #241 (isolation #54) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:54 am

No JK should def be protecting the confirmed town lol

Post Post #243 (isolation #55) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:33 am

Otherwise BW just dies tonight. Like the standard protocol with an IC is to protect them, protecting conf-towns is always the way to go.

Post Post #248 (isolation #56) » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:44 am

Persivul, I've already stated that I don't trust him with a gun so yeah I'm paranoid he's going to shoot a stupid target. I hadn't considered the other roles though and what you say is better for town.

Post Post #294 (isolation #57) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:18 am

Blacle, people pushing town does not make them scum. It was also not a weak case I pushed as town agreed and went on it, in the worst case scenario 4 people on you would have been town. The scum-intent you propose is complete crumpets. I haven't drawn scum in a long time and I hold no delusion that I'm good as scum as such, one thing I am however aware about is how I play and how to avoid attention. Call this self-meta if you will but due to my lack of confidence I definitely wouldn't come guns-blazing and strong-arm a lynch with a week left until deadline, that would be suicide as I mentioned to Kuroi with his paranoia of that happening during RVS. Instead my optimal strategy would be to lay-low (not having double most other people's posts) and coast off the fact my less-conventional manner of playing gets me scum-read as town, a lot. (Check my wiki for proof, I was scum read widely as a mason in Suikoden for instance).

I tend to read players motivations early-game and see what seems to make sense and what doesn't, this is fully based off me understanding someone's mindset. If I fail to understand someone then I get false positives, in this case I still don't agree with your methods and don't understand the way you work. My scum-case wasn't weak, it was mistaken. Now if you could discuss with me then I am able to get a picture of you and vise-versa, it's likely you're town right now so this isn't too important. All I'm saying is that you've got some flawed thinking and I'm trying to see where you're going wrong.

Now.

Why am I scum?

Post Post #295 (isolation #58) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:22 am

Now this will be my final post on setup-speculation.
The cop is free to check me tonight, I'm probably going to live (unless BW shoots me) as it would be better for the Framer to simply hit me. As such a result on me doesn't really give much information, as if I'm town framing me as the obvious cop-target is optimal play here. I hadn't considered that before as I only briefly glanced at the setup. The JK can block me if his wishes, though it would be better to either hit BW to keep him alive or hit a nullish read for information. BW shouldn't shoot.

Post Post #297 (isolation #59) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:12 am

Can you explain that line of reasoning KainTepes?

Post Post #298 (isolation #60) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:13 am

Also, I'm making a post containing stuff on everyone. New conspiracy and controversy await!

Post Post #312 (isolation #61) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:31 am

He isn't, I started writing a long post today but only finished three players as I had to study for an exam. I've only mobile-posted today, tomorrow I'll finish that post of mine I promised.

Post Post #321 (isolation #62) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:03 pm

Don't hammer.
I've a lot to speak about and I don't think texcat is today's lynch.

Post Post #324 (isolation #63) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:41 pm

Aneninen

Aneninen's ISO is nothing too spectacular, there's a little content but not terribly much. He gives a lot of posts like post 107 which contain short, blunt thoughts. Although they do lack further explanation and such, they seem genuine and some of them I've had myself and that earns town-points as you would hope town are drawing similar conclusions. His readslist in 138 is okay and the reasons and decent at most. His later play is a little more worrying, although being on the BW wagon fairly early he never really pushed it or explained why. That could be seen as scum-coasting and letting someone else (me) do the dirty-work and get all the blame if BW flips. The fact he flipped his read from null-town to null-scum on me is also noteworthy, especially as it changed just as people were starting to doubt my alignment. Could be seen as carefully setting up his options. His other reads in post 264 are once again decent, though I would really like him to explain them all in more detail. His interest in setup-speculation is also something I've also noticed, and should be noted for later. I'm not quiet sure where to lean with this slot, if he doesn't start pushing people and providing explanations for his actions soon I may consider pushing him.

drmyshottyizsik

Shotty also isn't anything exciting. He has a lot of posts where he comments on various things but never really follows up or acts on them. He's discussed me and what seemed like me coaching as well as some other stuff however he lacks visable reads as well as any scum-hunting. I don't know where he currently stands on matters involving the current gamestate, and as such it's hard to form a read on him. Just like with Anen this kind of coasting could be scum-motivated, however I'm not convinced. His loose cannonball at Aneninen out of the blue seems more like something town would do however, albeit it's a weak indicator. Really I'd like to get some reads from this slot along with some explanations, if he doesn't improve I'll start pushing him too.

Clumsy

Even though I keep telling myself it could be easily done as scum the fact Clumsy is a newer player really makes me like post 11 for some reason. It just feels like a town post despite me rationally not being able to justify it being so. He seems to be showing a natural line-of-thought and seem to be able to follow his thoughts' development. His early post 131 already show signs of him trying to figure out the game which is a good indicator. I originally didn't like post 148 because of the way he went "you're scum reading me for x, so why not this guy?" which I see coming from scum a lot more than from town. A further look when not skimming on a mobile device however showed that it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, there's reasonable analysis there and the reads are decent. He was never on BW either, really the only scum-thing I could possibly pin on him right now is his lack of explanation for voting me. That could be seen as opportunism however I'll await an explanation before deciding if that's so. For now he can be town.

Alexcellent

His first post 9 looks a bit odd and awkward however isn't too alignment indicative as people are claiming. What's more condemning is his personal-bubble he only reacts to; all his posts until 300 are reactions to things concerning him. He lacks any reads outside of this bubble and isn't discussing things either. The way he coasted on his BW read looks really shady as it was an RVS vote, which he never later justifies with further explanation. He also has a scum-read on Texcat which he explains in post 120, the reasoning there is weak and honestly just wrong. I want reads from him on other players as well as further explanation as to why he scum-read BW and is scum-reading Texcat.

KainTepes

Not sure how to read this slot as I've played with KT before and she was just as erratic and illogical as now. I however don't like the way she both voted rising wagons on BW and Texcat without any explanation (worth acknowledging). It could be seen as opportunism however with KT being the way she is I hesitate to finalise that judgement.

texcat

Despite all the hassle texcat placing Alex at L-3 and unvoting remains non-alignment indicative and it will remain so all game, possibly with the exception of some scum-flips. His post 73 is a little concerning as it's more in scum's interests to organise what the town does during the night, however it seems like she was thinking whether we should discuss it at all when you read the end of post 88. If anything that would be a town-motivated point-of-view. Some people think her reaction to Kuroi in post 88 is scummy, I disagree. They raise the point "what has Alex to do with this" for starters, he was the one getting wagoned and it was notable that kuroi was freaking out about the wagon more than the guy getting wagoned was. I also fail to see any passive aggressiveness

as I'm a robot

so if someone could point that out that would be swell. Her post 106 is a little strange and I would like her to elaborate her first line of reasoning as I don't understand it. As goes for the vote on persivul, why did she vote him? Her vote on BW is also rather concerning as she gave literally no reason for voting him. Post 307 however contains valid reasoning against Persivul, so her posts aren't completely void of scum-hunting. Really I want a full set of reads from her soon, I also feel like we shouldn't lynch her today as the amount of people that joined her wagon without explanation and the speed it arose don't sit well with me. Preferably I'd keep her around a bit longer as I get the feeling that she's the type of player who won't be able to hide their alignment for long. Leaning scum here for lack of pushes and explanation on reads, and what seems to be opportunism. I know however that she tend to look scummy as town a lot and gets lynched a lot for it, hence my hesitance to lynch her today.

Masquerade

Masquerade is an odd one, his first posts consist of small thought with a comment here and there yet they lack much depth. Though I've found an inconsistency: in post 82 he town reads Blacle yet in post 211 he states he "no longer scum reads him" (albeit for faulty reasons but hey). The issue here however is that it would be a lot more in scum's favour and interest to spur on the BW wagon, I don't see a newer player sapping a wagon for town-credit either thus it's all rather confusing. If mas could explain what was going on here that would be great. The jump on texcat is a little slimy and I want him to explain his main reasons for doing so. If he's town he should be explaining this stuff anyway an if he's scum some pressure will do him good.

KuroiXHF

I think Kuroi's early tunnel on Texcat came from town. Really scum had no reason to focus so much on someone so early and draw a lot of attention. The way he heavily defends his stance and interacts with others on the matter also sits well with me, it means he isn't just spewing crumpets and is putting thought into the game. His reads have been genuine and his thought process has been natural, I can see where he's heading and why he thinks what he states. I could elaborate further but I think it's pretty clear kuroi is town.

Persivul

I'll be blunt, I think Persivul is scum. He hasn't done any scum-hunting nor does he interact with people. He's coasting big time, the intent to hammer and his recent jump onto texcat look awful as he explains neither. Once. Nada. "Bad vibes and I like the wagon" is not a good reason to be lynching someone, I don't understand how a logical player like him can accept someone's lynch without providing his two-cents. I know persivul's town and scum game, as town he's a lot more pro-active. As scum he coasts and makes the best of what he gets. Guess which we're seeing this game?

BlacleWorks

Town unless counter-claimed.

Maxous

Maxous seems to have been trying to figure out the game from the get-go. Posts like his post 99 show he's thinking about stuff and trying to figure things out. I may disagree with him but that doesn't mean he's scum. I also really like his post 160, it's an example of a post you'll see a lot more from town than scum. The "are you a moron" mentality is more likely to come from town, as scum would prefer to just push the player instead. I'm getting bored writing these up and I'm hungry so I'll leave it as this.

SirCakez

I think this guy is town, I can explain why if you demand however I want to get something to eat but I need this post finished so I'm not writing an essay for SC. Sorry man, you're just not worthy

Post Post #325 (isolation #64) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:42 pm

Alex quitting the wagon honestly looks pretty good, he may be town after all actually.

Post Post #326 (isolation #65) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:43 pm

VOTE: Persivul

Post Post #327 (isolation #66) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:47 pm

In post 132, Persivul wrote:VOTE: Kuroi

Never explained.

In post 181, Persivul wrote:VOTE: texcat

Never explained.

In post 233, Persivul wrote:I thought that was implied, but FTR, intent to hammer.

Personally I think the guy is town trying to play too tricksy, but at this point he's going to be a distraction for as long as he's here, and his flip will help analysis. Absent a claim he needs to go.

This seems like an opportunistic grab at town-credit as well as a chance to hammer.

In post 242, Persivul wrote:
In post 241, wgeurts wrote:No JK should def be protecting the confirmed town lol

We can't keep him alive long enough to make a difference, unless you're proposing we don't use any of our actions for cop investigations. We just protect one wild conftown every night and gain no new information from our PRs.

VOTE: wgeurts

Votes me for theory just as BW becomes town and I'd be the obvious person recieving scrutiny for driving that wagon single-handedly.

In post 290, Persivul wrote:
In post 280, BlacleWorks wrote:Maxous. Wgeurts is the only one who pushed for my lynch and it was indeed a terrible push. I honestly don't know how I got to L-1. Perhaps its a matter of insecurity that lead those people to be lead astray. I have to come realize that being sure of yourself in this game tends to bother some individuals.
I'm picking up what your putting down. However, I happen to think that Wgeurts is actually scum and tried to push a scum myslynch on what appeared to be a weak player(me). I think your vote would be better on Wgeurts than anything else. Wgeurts flip will give you more traction for your push on Texcat if he flips town, and it wont damage your traction if Wgeurts flips scum.
Do you agree?

D1 scum generally don't lead a lynch wagon right from the start. They wait to see how things develop and help push a wagon that's already started. If you're right that he's the only one who pushed you, that's townie for D1.

VOTE: texcat

Votes texcat without explanation opportunistically.

In post 303, Persivul wrote:Bad vibes and I like the wagon so far.

This is utter crumpets justification.

Post Post #329 (isolation #67) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:06 pm

I'm afraid your going to have to keep doubting your reads then. Even though you're town you're getting what we call tunnel-vision, you're interpretating the evidence to make me scum instead of interpreting the read based off the evidence. You're not looking at what's most likely, you've decided I'm scum and your fitting stuff around that.

It's a common mistake with newer players, try and think about this.

Post Post #330 (isolation #68) » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:07 pm

Also I just dumped an entire wall of content and all you can say is "lol wgeurts is scum".

Post Post #348 (isolation #69) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:45 am

In post 346, Persivul wrote:
In post 343, KuroiXHF wrote:Dude, I fucking get it if you have emergencies with your pets or families or whatever but if you're not going to be able to play this game, you should replace out.

Only three people have more posts than me. A couple people with fewer posts probably have more real content, but still, I'm at least in the middle of the pack as far as contribution goes. Check Masquerade's ISO and vote him if you want to charge someone with not playing the game.

p-edit: take your head out of your ass and put your vote somewhere useful.

This is bad, now this is the "why me fry my tell" I thought I saw with Clumsy earlier. Also the whole "I wouldn't do this as scum is" not correct as he does this as scum. I'll get some games as evidence.

Post Post #350 (isolation #70) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:48 am

Heh, you wish. As town I'm often kept around by scum as they think I'm an easy mislynch later. Turns out that push-over is usually more vocal and convincing than they expect. I hold no delusion that my town game is top-notch, though as off recently I've been nailing scum consistently later-game.

Post Post #351 (isolation #71) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:49 am

There's also the fact that I do whatever the heck I want and am thus hard to manipulate.

Post Post #352 (isolation #72) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:52 am

Anyway, the fact that you don't actually replace-out if you're really busy (which I believe, but I don't think it's the explanation for your play) and aren't producing content or explaining reads is concerning. Instead you choose to try and redirect attention to others and name people idiots indirectly, that's usually scums way of dealing with pressure. You make a lot of "I wouldn't do this as scum" ect. however you're not actually trying to improve your slot. Town up and I'll reconsider, continue whining and making noise however and I'll just proceed.

Post Post #356 (isolation #73) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:06 am

I played badly in that game, and it's been a few months since I've not been playing awfully. Since SU Mafia my game has improved as I've taken care to learn from others and invest effort in games. But sure lob another clump of fluff instead of doing anything productive.

Also SirCakez, I've already called out shotty as well however there are better options and he has promised content soon. If he fails to deliver and Persivul starts to town up then we can pressure him. Thoughts on Persivul?

Post Post #357 (isolation #74) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:07 am

In post 355, Persivul wrote:VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

My god I literally cannot think how people think you are town right now.

This one post literally is my entire push against you summarised into one line. Coasting, opportunism and the whole package.

Post Post #358 (isolation #75) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:09 am

Like you could start giving thoughts on people, stating why you did certain actions at certain points to try and help the mistaken town see the light. This is what town should be doing!

Instead Persivul chooses it's better to make those against him look bad and continue doing jack-all.

Post Post #387 (isolation #76) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:05 pm

In post 361, Persivul wrote:
In post 352, wgeurts wrote:Anyway, the fact that you don't actually replace-out if you're really busy (which I believe, but I don't think it's the explanation for your play) and aren't producing content or explaining reads is concerning.

Really? Why is that gurts? Because in my experience, replace outs are more a scum than a town tell.

If you're town pressured for time it's in town's interest to get someone who isn't, you're speaking absolute nonsense.

In post 362, Persivul wrote:
In post 356, wgeurts wrote:I played badly in that game, and it's been a few months since I've not been playing awfully.

Yeah, I can see how you've improved by the way you pushed a town PR...

A town PR who literally admitted to making himself look as bad as possible as well as admitting to making up pushes on people, it would have been worse if I didn't push him.

Post Post #388 (isolation #77) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:06 pm

In post 366, BlacleWorks wrote:Alright well I'm gonna just park my vote and lurk until I find a reason not to do this.

Wgeurts here's a fun question, If the JK doesn't JK me. Do you expect to make it to Day2? Is that the reason you think the Vig needs to be Jail Kept?

I expect to make it to Day 2 regardless, you vigging me would end in you being under so much scrutiny that it would be suicide.

Post Post #389 (isolation #78) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:10 pm

In post 383, Alexcellent wrote:
In post 324, wgeurts wrote:

Alexcellent

His first post 9 looks a bit odd and awkward however isn't too alignment indicative as people are claiming. What's more condemning is his personal-bubble he only reacts to; all his posts until 300 are reactions to things concerning him. He lacks any reads outside of this bubble and isn't discussing things either. The way he coasted on his BW read looks really shady as it was an RVS vote, which he never later justifies with further explanation. He also has a scum-read on Texcat which he explains in post 120, the reasoning there is weak and honestly just wrong. I want reads from him on other players as well as further explanation as to why he scum-read BW and is scum-reading Texcat.

I don't think my reasoning there was necessarily wrong, jumping off a wagon that people start questioning is a suspicious thing to do and it didn't seem to line up with her own logic at the time of the L-3 wagon being fine, so I didn't understand her suddenly jumping off. That followed by her PR question was just iffy for me. But the reasoning there isn't strong enough for me to want to see her lynched.
I was fine with leaving my vote on Blacle based on 95 and 100 being dodgy and not liking his Maxous vote at the time.

In post 324, wgeurts wrote:

texcat

Despite all the hassle texcat placing Alex at L-3 and unvoting remains non-alignment indicative and it will remain so all game, possibly with the exception of some scum-flips.

Do you feel this way about all RVS actions or just this one in particular?

All pretty much.

Post Post #390 (isolation #79) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:12 pm

In post 385, Alexcellent wrote:The cases against Persivul are looking pretty flimsy to me.

Care to point out where?
You're making such a sweeping statement without actually backing it up.

Post Post #393 (isolation #80) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:33 pm

Because it creates a huge layer of WiFoM; "would he do it as scum, would he not?"
This becomes scummy when you realise he could have instead chosen to explain his prior actions as well as providing content explaining his thoughts on the game.

Post Post #394 (isolation #81) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:33 pm

I'll grab some.

Post Post #395 (isolation #82) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:47 pm

Curse you persivul for not having a wiki, I can't find the games I read in that ongoing game so I can't talk about it and I'm not going to sift through pages of your posts to find it.
Here's an example of his town-game though: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p7670092
Notice how here he actually give thoughts on stuff and doesn't just kind of float around ect.

Post Post #405 (isolation #83) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:00 am

You're obviously active enough to post that and all these snarks, why aren't you doing anything?

Post Post #406 (isolation #84) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:01 am

Also I don't for a second believe you've reaction-tested more than once this game, especial the intent to hammer. If I'm wrong show me where you did and provide what you drew from every reaction-test.

Post Post #409 (isolation #85) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:26 am

In post 407, Persivul wrote:Stop being bad gurts.

Let's see I'm asking someone to provide content if they're town hence giving them a chance to explain where they stand and what they see and they're calling me bad. Right.

Post Post #412 (isolation #86) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:15 am

In post 410, Persivul wrote:
In post 409, wgeurts wrote:Let's see I'm asking someone to provide content if they're town hence giving them a chance to explain where they stand and what they see and they're calling me bad. Right.

You tunneled a townie until he claimed a PR. Now you're tunneling again. You haven't learned your lesson. Stop being bad.

Correction; I pushed a townie (you were willing to hammer despite saying he was town) who has admitted to making himself look like scum and has also admitted to making up pushes on other people. That's what you call scum-play and the fault was BW, he intended to look scummy thus those pushing him aren't at fault, if anything they were correct in things they were accusing him of. Now I'm pushing someone again, not tunnelling as I've been stating that I've been giving you a chance to prove yourself and show that you're actually town and I'm mistaken. Now that's not tunnelling, tunnelling is fitting the narrative to a preset read. Instead I'm asking for your explanation to weigh it and see if I'm mistaken.

It's also not a tunnel if the points being pushed are valid, and as you haven't refuted a single one nor have your tried to improve or show us the light you have nothing to backup this claim of tunnelling. You know what it does look like? You trying to make those pushing you look as bad as possible.

Post Post #413 (isolation #87) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:17 am

Texcat, I'll admit that BW amuses me. albeit for all the wrong reasons. He may be town however he's being ignorant, stubborn and is frankly a liability. Now I've tried to reach out to him a few times now so if anyone else could slap some sense into him that would be swell.

Post Post #418 (isolation #88) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:24 am

In post 417, Persivul wrote:Just ran across this from gurts in the discussion forum:

People should stop trying to act townie intentionally as town, due to that a meta can form with "how town should act" which scum players of a certain level can easily replicate as their scum-game. People should just play as they do naturally. That way people are forced to look genuine as scum which is harder and not just meet a set of standards.

Why aren't you following your own advice? You expect people to do certain things you consider townie even if they don't feel like doing it naturally.

VOTE: wgeurts

This is complete and utter crumpets, play naturally isn't an excuse for anti-town or awful play.

Post Post #419 (isolation #89) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:25 am

Like if you're really town and you're refusing to interact and work with others you're playing awfully.

Post Post #427 (isolation #90) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:53 am

Oh for gods sake.

Replace out then.

If you're going to act like a fucking cry baby then don't waste our time.

Mod doesn't that count as playing against your win-condition and therefore warrant a warning?

Post Post #428 (isolation #91) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:54 am

Like what the fuck do you mean by typical town content.
I'm asking what the hell you were thinking when you did certain actions. That's not flipping typical town content, that's called explaining yourself and is vital to the game.

Post Post #452 (isolation #92) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:09 pm

In post 431, BlacleWorks wrote:Explaining yourself isn't vital to the game Wgeurts. So tired of your preachy BS, this is not a newb game and you aint no IC. Just know that the way you are playing tells me two things immediately. You are likely scum and very excited to have a scumdoctor/Are the scumdoctor. You are town and you have a PR. If I'm wrong on both of these great job I hope mafia kills you tonight and cop/jk are saved by your badness. If I'm right about any of these you need to rethink your strategies. Your not in control of this town your just digging more tunnels and no one is going to listen to your bullshit... sigh your the worst just stop posting for like 24 hours or something you need a break...

Kuroi, your reaction is shit tier. Your only capable of pointing out the obvious and you can't even point it out without being subjective. You are actually playing worse than Wgeurts. Atleast Wgeurts can keep his emotions in check. Atleast Anenien has the balls to recognize terribad plays. Nope you just continue to wallow in your shit pit.

I am absolutely disgusted so far. I am very happy that I am the Vig Framer on me tonight... also don't kill me

Im gonna shoot a cow in the back

Explaining your actions is vital to the game and as such I'm going to make an entire post dedicated to why.

Town don't have information scum do, we are uninformed, the only things we can work with is the information others claim. Now if everybody just went around not explaining anything then it would be impossible to form correct reads, as you'd have nothing but perhaps VCA to base it off. The scum can easily hide in this and they win the majority of times except for when the town is purely lucky.

Now if people explain their actions others are able to analyse said explanations. This helps town in two ways: if you're town the analysis of others can point out mistakes in your line-of-thought meaning you're able to form more accurate reads. However it also provides more information and chances for scum to slip-up. As such not explaining yourself is literally playing against your win-condition unless there are other factors in play like being a cop etc. If you don't explain your actions and refuse to do so you are then a liability to the town, bad at the game, and should replace out as you're one of the factors lowering the general quality of mafia.

This isn't preachy BS, this is fact. You're playing like a stubborn jack-ass and I'm just waiting for the game to end to talk theory with you once you've fallen from your high pedestal. You also fully underestimate my level of play, I know my town-game and could speak of how I act as town in walls. I wouldn't get excited with a PR and show it, you're so mistaken and caught up in your own cloud that you can't see the way out any more.

I'm not the bad town here, I'm the one explaining my actions and showing my reasons for what I do. I interact with other town to see if I may be mistaken and I always keep in mind I may be wrong. BW, I hold nothing against you, once this game is done we can talk again once you see how wrong you've been this game.

Post Post #453 (isolation #93) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:10 pm

In post 433, BlacleWorks wrote:Only the morons/scum are entertaining his Bull! Like seriously there needs to be a test you have to pass before you can stop playing newbie games. People wonder why scum wins more than town....

Maybe you should return to the newbie queue so that my "preaching" isn't necessary. If you play in a game with me and you're playing badly I hold the right to call you out on that.

Post Post #454 (isolation #94) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:12 pm

In post 441, BlacleWorks wrote:Kuroi the better is decided in the results. Wgeurts will die before you push any lynches in this game. And when that happens you will be caught sooo good luck with whatever your planning

I'd hammer that Persival. Going to keep my vote where it is so everyone will remember how hard I tunneled Wgeurts so that when I flip town people can go back and examine the interaction from a confirmed town perspective.

If you kill me tonight you're facing a policy lynch tomorrow, can I get agreement on this from others? This is called leashing.

Post Post #456 (isolation #95) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:34 pm

In post 455, Alexcellent wrote:
In post 454, wgeurts wrote:
In post 441, BlacleWorks wrote:Kuroi the better is decided in the results. Wgeurts will die before you push any lynches in this game. And when that happens you will be caught sooo good luck with whatever your planning

I'd hammer that Persival. Going to keep my vote where it is so everyone will remember how hard I tunneled Wgeurts so that when I flip town people can go back and examine the interaction from a confirmed town perspective.

If you kill me tonight you're facing a policy lynch tomorrow, can I get agreement on this from others? This is called leashing.

Couldn't this be manipulated by scum?

I'd rather Blacle just agree to not use his vig tonight. Given that the JK might jail him, two shots could end up wasted, so him using the vig tonight would be really bad for town.

Would you rather have a cannonball vig with even more chance to mess up?
Of cause it's manipulatable however I prefer the judgement of the town vs scum over BW.

Post Post #457 (isolation #96) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:35 pm

HE will shoot if there's no threat, that's already clear. Even the threat of a JK won't stop him.

Post Post #460 (isolation #97) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:03 pm

In post 459, BlacleWorks wrote:Why is it important that Wgeurts stays alive? I just cant seem to figure out his importance to the game

BW, what is the importance of a town player being alive in mafia?

THE TOWN NEEDS TO BE ALIVE TO WIN!

And if you shoot the player making the most content and being the most productive you're a fool.

Post Post #461 (isolation #98) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:05 pm

Also BW if you shoot me, we policy lynch you and then the town loses you are solely responsible. If you want to win don't be an idiot.

Post Post #463 (isolation #99) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:46 pm

In post 462, BlacleWorks wrote:Town does not need to be alive to win that would be scum...

If all the town die we lose, thus every time someone that's town dies we accelerate scum's win-condition.

Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:57 am

In post 465, Aneninen wrote:VOTE: Wgeurts

Mobilepost.
Don't take it personally, Wgeurts, but enough outta you.
You're speculating, survivalistic, and that we shouldn't lynch the most active player part??? Pigeon poop!

Everything I've or anyone has said is speculation as we have no hard evidence.
Yes, I don't want to die as that advances scum's win-condition.
I never outright said we shouldn't lynch the most active player, I was saying that BW was being a fool blind to the truth. I'm town, anyone can see that.

Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:58 am

In post 466, Aneninen wrote:Also, suggesting policy lynching the Vig Tomorrow? Dafuq.

I'm serious.

Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:59 am

In post 467, Persivul wrote:
In post 461, wgeurts wrote:Also BW if you shoot me, we policy lynch you and then the town loses you are solely responsible. If you want to win don't be an idiot.

Fear mongering. Suggesting a PL on a PR. What would professor guerts say about such play? Pretty sure he'd call it scummy.

VOTE: wgeurts

Suggesting a policy lynch on a PR that has the potential to screw over the town if they start screwing over the town, mmmmmmmmh.
And yes I'm flipping fear-mongering BW as he is blind to all reason.

Post Post #471 (isolation #103) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:01 am

If I get lynched today all those that are town should definitely take a look at those resisting the wagon on persivul in exchange for various other counter-wagons one of which being me. I've explained all my thoughts a lot so those will be out there as well. BW will hopefully also knock-off his ego a but when he realises he's been wrong all Day 1, maybe then people can prevent him from being dead-weight.

Post Post #472 (isolation #104) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:04 am

Anen, make a case explaining why not wanting to die, preventing an unpredictable player from screwing up, and posting thoughts about the game is scummy. As you seem to be claiming they are.

As for persivul, he's not town and if he is he's a VI.

Post Post #475 (isolation #105) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:08 am

In post 473, SirCakez wrote:Wgeurts we're not lynching the Vig :/
Persivul - you literally went from posting a miniwall about KT to voting wgeurts in 3 posts. What's up there?

How long are you going to fence-sit regarding Persivul?

Post Post #480 (isolation #106) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:50 am

In post 479, Persivul wrote:Just lynch me. I have never seen so much stupidity in a single game.

Post Post #485 (isolation #107) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:33 am

Anen, when was the last time you played with town wgeurts?

Post Post #486 (isolation #108) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:34 am

An annoyed town wgeurts.

Post Post #491 (isolation #109) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:22 am

A shotty lynch is an awful compromise shying away from what's actually important right now.

Post Post #524 (isolation #110) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:41 pm

Black if you think asking someone to explain their empty claims is manipulatiom you're a lost cause.

Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:15 pm

I'm not going to vote shotty.

Post Post #556 (isolation #112) » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:44 pm

The definition is literally oh my god you suck

Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:53 pm

He follows up on that point by scum-reading the one mainly pushing him.

Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:37 am

The reason I've gone silent is that you are all being completely mislead. Anyone in the bloody world could see that Shotty was a mislynch-compromise. The fact everyone went silent and things went stale is already a pretty good indicator of this. What do we gain from this lynch? Absolutely nothing besides the town hopefully opening their eyes and realising that they need to sort out the real question such as Persivul ect.

Post Post #630 (isolation #115) » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:48 am

In post 628, Aneninen wrote:
In post 624, wgeurts wrote:The reason I've gone silent is that you are all being completely mislead. Anyone in the bloody world could see that Shotty was a mislynch-compromise. The fact everyone went silent and things went stale is already a pretty good indicator of this. What do we gain from this lynch? Absolutely nothing besides the town hopefully opening their eyes and realising that they need to sort out the real question such as Persivul ect.

You should have posted something instead of waiting until a wagon which you knew it was wrong reaches lynch.
I've never denied that I derailed the TexCat-wagon for the same reason.

This post, alone, is enough for a scumread on you, Wgeurts.

Anen, if you are town kindly shut up as you're part of the problem.

I've stated multiple times that we should be lynching other people and not compromising. My distaste for this wagon has been made very clear.

Post Post #631 (isolation #116) » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:50 am

Masq was also a bad lynch today. If you really wanted to get something decent the lynch should have been on Persivul or me.

Post Post #640 (isolation #117) » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:22 am

I'd like to say that I was completely fudge wrong yesterday and am going to get something decent in today. I busy right now but I believe that Persivul and Anen are now likely going to be town after I reread.

Post Post #702 (isolation #118) » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:27 am

I'm not, catching up this afternoon once I'm finally free after this busy week.

Post Post #788 (isolation #119) » Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:04 am

@Mod, I'm afraid I need replacement. I'd not realised I was going to be away for two weeks starting next week. It would be best for me to leave now as to hinder the flow of the game less by giving my replacement more time to catch-up.

Apologies for the inconvenience.

Post Post #793 (isolation #120) » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:20 am

Anen that's a lie.
I've requested a backup mod and am replacing from the only other game I'm in.

Post Post #794 (isolation #121) » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:20 am

But hey it's ongoing

Post Post #842 (isolation #122) » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:04 am

I'm town
And I honestly am disgusted you think I'd lie about my real life.

Thu May 12, 2016 3:44 am

In post 1450, Persivul wrote:And speaking of BW...what was with that? The guy had some knowledge of the game. Just couldn't control himself.

This, Black even though you and me just about clashed all this game you've got some serious potential. I've also learned from this game myself, it really showed an example of me getting into a tunnel and then things falling-apart as a result of it. I'm going to take care to try and not bias my way into locking myself up and crashing, sorry persivul about that (though I recall being really annoyed for some reason, can't remember what though).

Thu May 12, 2016 3:46 am

Also yeah Anen, my play has changed significantly since we last played as this game showed. Meta isn't something to rely on.

SirCakez, you played really well and although you lost you should be proud of your play here.

Thu May 12, 2016 3:59 am

In post 1478, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1476, wgeurts wrote:Also yeah Anen, my play has changed significantly since we last played as this game showed. Meta isn't something to rely on.
Yeah. I always overrate meta, especially direct meta.

Out of interest, how often do you win lylo as town?
I can recall you doing it a lot before team mafia and wonder whether that's continued.