Open 634: Sharing is Caring (Game Over)

[Maxous]

Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this either

vote: Alexcellent

[Maxous]

Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this either

vote: Alexcellent

So this is a serious vote?

Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this either

vote: Alexcellent

Why?

I suppose it's gut.
I didn't like the feel of the post.

[Maxous]

Also Maxous, are you an Advance Wars fan?
I'll stop my spam here now.

yep.

[Maxous]

*even though I kinda suck at it

[Maxous]

Hyper aggressive? No fucks? That sounds like obvscum to me!

VOTE: BlacleWorks

I didn't like this

either

vote: Alexcellent

Who else didn't like it?

i thought SC felt the same way I did since he called it an excellent vote.
but now I realise he might of just been making a pun with your username

[Maxous]

Should we discuss how our town PRs are going to handle their X shots?

ok.
how do you think we should handle them?

[Maxous]

Right now I have a very extremely weak null scum read on Maixmous, Kuroi, and Percival, and Kain Tepes. Each one of these slorts have attempted to push weak cases that no one else is being opportunist about at all.

Well, somebody has to do something to get the game going. We can't wait around for scum to offer themselves on a silver platter.
I know you said you're fairly new to this so I'll cut you slack here.

-

Kuroi if you're town please reread texcats post and take a really good look. That was not a scum over the top defense. Also defending ones self is once again also not a scum tell. It's going "over the top" in your defense displaying over-confidence and/or paranoia that is scummy.

I don't agree at all - Texcat

a) had a passive-aggressive dig at Kuroi

b) what does Alexcelent being indifferent to the wagon have to do with anything?

unvote,

VOTE: Texcat

[Maxous]

Yeah we can't wait around for scum to offer themselves on a platter. But when have any of you ever caught scum before they slipped up? I am a firm believer in that your win con ultimately influences your decisions.

That being said I have a theory about all mafia games with the standard 9 player newbie setup. At some point in time before the game ends it goes to either mylo or lylo. It is here that scum has to make its move. Its here that they are forced to deliver themselves up on a platter. I think the best course of action for a VT is to develop your reads as the days progress and try to eliminate players that are anything less than town starting with who is more than likely to be scum. Outside of PR's that is pretty much all you can hope to do as town.

Scum is going to opportunistic at some point because they can and they must in order to win. Spotting it is of course how I intend to catch scum.

Why are you in such a rush to build wagons and force content?

Shouldn't you be trying to get to know everyone better right now while we are still very early in the day?

VOTE: Maxous

look, this all a theory disagreement.
you're reacting to me because i'm being aggressive.
regarding the bolded, that IS what i'm doing.

I attack people, they respond, and then I get reads off of it.

[Maxous]

The wagon that I pushed with my RVS vote all the way to L-3 (! does this just sound ridiculous?) was on Alex. You seem to be voting me for encouraging Kuroi to get out of his tunnel, but Kuroi thinks I'm scummy for pushing Alex to L-3 with my RVS. It seems like Alex might have something to do with it.

uhh no.
I voted you for the bolded:

2) He didn't see a problem with it. <- I think he said this is why.

Yep. And I still don't see a problem with it.

I do find it strange that you are so focused on it

, especially since Alexcellent seemed totally indifferent to the wagon.

what's strange about him scum-hunting?
the rest of his posts he was answering questions about his read that people were asking.

[Maxous]

We can also vote clumsy if anyone's up for that.

uhh no?
why on earth why would you vote him?

[Maxous]

yeah, wguerts should probably explain what was so vote-able about clumsy's wall.

[Maxous]

sorry.
will catch up within the hour

[Maxous]

not a vig

-

that actually wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

assuming there isn't gonna be a counter-claim I would be looking at Texcat and Masquerade.
Both Texcat and Masquerade are coasting without giving many strong opinions.
Texcat voted BW late on the wagon for reasons??? and masq gave a soft town-read on BW and just avoided the wagon without offering an alternative.

I want to wait until everyone checks in first though

[Maxous]

Mate, I'm probably dying tonight.

actually.
is there a reason you assumed he was telling the truth about the vig?
i know you said, confirm it in your next post

but still

[Maxous]

Regarding the coasting people - I'd put Persivul in that list. He's been noticeably quiet.

has he?
i don't feel like he has.

Um more votes on Wgeurts please. Obviously the scummiest person in the game followed by Anenien.

I think you're reacting to the two people that pushed you hardest.
I would be looking more at the people that tried to slide on without taking the heat e.g. Texcat.

TexCat

– Matches her town-meta I know. But still too little content. Null-town.

What's her town meta compared to her scum-meta?

[Maxous]

Wgeurts is the only one who pushed for my lynch and it was indeed a terrible push. I honestly don't know how I got to L-1.

scum jumping on the weaker link of a town vs town possibly.

I'm picking up what your putting down. However, I happen to think that Wgeurts is actually scum and tried to push a scum myslynch on what appeared to be a weak player(me). I think your vote would be better on Wgeurts than anything else. Wgeurts flip will give you more traction for your push on Texcat if he flips town, and it wont damage your traction if Wgeurts flips scum.

not sure how wguerts!town = texcat!scum
unless you're saying if i'm right about wguerts then i'll have more credibility pushing texcat?
i'll give you that i'm not a big fan of wguerts' two pushes - yourself and clumsy - but he pushed you so aggressively i don't think it was a scum push. Particularly considering it's Day 1.

[Maxous]

oh i see.
yeah, makes sense.

[Maxous]

I thought that was implied, but FTR, intent to hammer.

Personally I think the guy is town trying to play too tricksy, but at this point he's going to be a distraction for as long as he's here, and his flip will help analysis. Absent a claim he needs to go.

This seems like an opportunistic grab at town-credit as well as a chance to hammer.

No JK should def be protecting the confirmed town lol

We can't keep him alive long enough to make a difference, unless you're proposing we don't use any of our actions for cop investigations. We just protect one wild conftown every night and gain no new information from our PRs.

VOTE: wgeurts

Votes me for theory just as BW becomes town and I'd be the obvious person recieving scrutiny for driving that wagon single-handedly.

yeah, these 2 posts don't look great.
*and* I felt that Texcat's #307 felt kinda town.

[Maxous]

And I'm starting to have some second thoughts about her based on some of the weaker votes on her wagon. I want to hear some more justifications for the vote on her, particularly from Masquerade and KT.

funny enough, I thought those 2 votes were the worst ones on her too.
particularly KT's.

[Maxous]

yeah, these 2 posts don't look great.
*and* I felt that Texcat's #307 felt kinda town.

Yet you stayed on the texcat wagon. Your presence there was part of the reason I joined it. It's odd that now you would try to disclaim the validity of the wagon to throw shade at me, when you wer eon it before me and stayed on it despite a "kinda town" post from her.

why is it odd?
i was thinking about it and decided to wait for an answer from you.

[Maxous]

UNVOTE:
I was lazy and just went to look into your iso and

had a gutfeeling you were scum so I jumped the wago

n. I normally check the votecount, no idea why I didn't this time.

VOTE: Texcat

I'd need to make a quotewall to explain myself and I'd rather not do that. Instead, if you don't agree point me to a post you think is town and I'll explain why it's scum.

???
these don't match up.
so which one was it?

[Maxous]

Maxous

followed along because he thought Kuroi was scum hunting and that his tunnel of the L-3 RVS was good.

-___-

not even close

why did you vote BW earlier, Texcat?

[Maxous]

those match up

why not just say "i have a gut-read" in the first post instead of "I will deconstruct any argument you have that she's town"?

[Maxous]

Then the rest of his posts are nothing but spreading confusion and WIFOM.

uhh no?
where?

[Maxous]

Maxous - has your tex read changed at all? Who are your scum reads?

i've softened a bit on Texcat.

{KainTepes, Texcat, Masquerade, Persivul} would be the list i'm working off atm

[Maxous]

Like this, if he's scum and he's already being called out for not explaining his votes, why does he keep doing it so blatantly?

wouldn't be the first time i've seen it from scum

[Maxous]

nevermind, pers is probably just town.

I wanna go back to lynching texcat

[Maxous]

sorry if i'm glazing over this a bit but I still prefer a lynch among {KainTepes, Texcat, Masquerade} if at all possible

[Maxous]

KT is getting replaced in a lot of games, that has nothing to do with it.
He's scummy because his vote on Texcat was crap

VOTE: texcat

HE IS SCUM BECAUSE WGEURTS,, is town

Here's the vote.
He votes and hops onto Texcat, not because he thinks Texcat is scum, it's because he thinks wguerts is town.
For context: read the conversation earlier on the page between myself and BW where we agreed if wguerts flipped town it would make texcat!scum seem a bit more likely.
To me, this came across as buddying and opportunistic. As if our conversation gave him a great *excuse* to jump on the texcat wagon rather than having a genuine reason.

VOTE: shotty

calling me a VI implies that you know I am town........ can you explain how you know that?

I wasn't a big fan of this either, I felt it was disingenuous.

[Maxous]

All three he's got here are not among the top three for the game. While not necessarily indicative, does seem like scum distancing from the lynch today.

we still have 3 days left which is plenty of time.
no need to panic and start compromising just yet

[Maxous]

ugh, fine

unvote

, VOTE: wguerts

we're just stalling till the deadline at this point

[Maxous]

can nobody hammer until KT gets replaced anyway please?

shotty and pers are both fairly strong town-reads at the moment.

[Maxous]

and masquerade gives a stance*

[Maxous]

I thought shotty's push on Kuroi and Persivul was decently reasoned and he doesn't come across as being opportunistic at all regarding pushes or votes.
his #380 was antagonistic to a lot of players (even the ones he was calling town!) in his readlist which I feel like is something scum wouldn't want to do.
I know people are voting him for low content but I think it's just a lazy playstyle more than anything.

-

For Persivul, it's mostly just tonal. Stuff like #426 sounds genuine for example.
I can't really articulate this one, sorry.
I do agree with his latest read-list for the most part though.

[Maxous]

unvote,

VOTE: Masquerade

yeah no. That is two poor L-1 votes - first was on Texcat.

[Maxous]

His Vote is an OMGUS because there was no scumhunting, there was no gradual progression to his scumread. He just suddenly knew someone else was scum. If it was happening to you, it would be easier to see given that you know your alignment. This is how scum appears to be scumhunting because they can't just do nothing and town posture in every post...

good points.
now look at *both* masquerade's votes on Texcat and Shotty.

[Maxous]

i'll hammer when chilledtea gives a catch-up.

i'm getting tired of this.

I think #595 is scummy again regarding his changed stance on Texcat but i'm feeling like a broken record

[Maxous]

unvote,

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Maxous]

The reason I've gone silent is that you are all being completely mislead. Anyone in the bloody world could see that Shotty was a mislynch-compromise. The fact everyone went silent and things went stale is already a pretty good indicator of this. What do we gain from this lynch? Absolutely nothing besides the town hopefully opening their eyes and realising that they need to sort out the real question such as Persivul ect.

I was trying to switch to masq and you could of helped instead of staying silent

[Maxous]

i'm not a jailkeeper

VOTE: KuroiXHF

quick tl;dr: he was really aggressive early, got very quiet during the scum lynch and looks quiet and demotivated now because he lost a buddy

i'll give more thoughts tonight/tomorrow, sorry.

[Maxous]

I still think Wgeurts is scum.
His Twilight post looks fake knowing the flip. Also, anyone can examine the difference between his reactions to the shotty wagon and my one to the Texcat wagon.
As far as I remember he told it was the same.
I think he was hesitant to take the risk to derail the shottx wagon actively.

i do think his strategy of "staying silent" for a wagon that he was convinced was flipping town was a bit ridiculous

[Maxous]

I can write a case on Kuroi if I have to

[Maxous]

i don't think the replacing out is indicative.

wguerts keeping his mouth completely shut when scum-shotty was being wagoned, despite being very willing to lead the town and strong-arm wagons earlier in the game combined with nothing but promises of content on day 2 would be a reason to vote him though.

[Maxous]

unvote,

VOTE: wguerts

[Maxous]

I think we should just lynch wguerts.

We can sort the whole Kuroi thing out tomorrow.

[Maxous]

someone hammer please, yeah.

it's entirely possible Kuroi is not scum here.

Again, we can discuss all that later

[Maxous]

Blade, did you shoot last night?

don't answer this

[Maxous]

you know what, i'm just gonna do it.

VOTE: KuroiXHF

your play has been ridiculously different between post-shotty lynch and pre-shotty lynch.

I think Kuroi is scum that knows he's cornered.

[Maxous]

in the early game you were a lot more aggressive, explanatory and co-operative with us

I know you were v/la but your posting was still quiet during the shotty lynch and now in Day 2+3, you have gotten antagonistic and obtuse with us.

why the sudden change? I can only think it's because you lost a buddy and realised you're likely next.

[Maxous]

drmyshottyizsik

(7): SirCakez, Aneninen, Persivul,

Alexcellent

,

BlacleWorks

,

Masquerade

, Maxous (

Lynch!

)

Persivul

(3):

wgeurts

,

drmyshottyizsik

,

KuroiXHF

wgeurts

(1): Clumsy

Masquerade

(1):

texcat

texcat

(1):

chilledtea

even apart from the result crumb, I would highly doubt that the scum-team is Clumsy & chilledtea.
Which means somebody threw Shotty under a bus big time.
Maybe even both of the buddies.
If you look at the lynches lined up at people off the wagon and late on the wagon in all 3 following day periods (plus the possibility of a cop), it would certainly make sense to

[Maxous]

Maxous - has your tex read changed at all? Who are your scum reads?

i've softened a bit on Texcat.

{KainTepes, Texcat, Masquerade, Persivul} would be the list i'm working off atm

nevermind, pers is probably just town.

I wanna go back to lynching texcat

What caused this change Max?

refer to #565
just the way he was interacting with wguerts changed my mind., iirc

All three he's got here are not among the top three for the game. While not necessarily indicative, does seem like scum distancing from the lynch today.

we still have 3 days left which is plenty of time.
no need to panic and start compromising just yet

ugh, fine

unvote

, VOTE: wguerts

we're just stalling till the deadline at this point

These are just 20 posts away, and the first you argue that we have plenty of time, the second is saying that we're just stalling (as in, we should just end it now.) Why did this change?

while i was just 20 posts, in realtime the timer went down from 3 days to dayswith nobody doing anything and I realised we were just wasting time so it was time to get something moving.

sorry if i'm glazing over this a bit but I still prefer a lynch among {KainTepes, Texcat, Masquerade} if at all possible

unvote,

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

Why the hammer here? Weren't you townreading Shotty? Pretty hard actually.

because half the town was stone-walling the game until he was lynched/hammered and nobody was helping me with masquerade.
I thought he was gonna flip town, yeah

can nobody hammer until KT gets replaced anyway please?

shotty and pers are both fairly strong town-reads at the moment.

I thought shotty's push on Kuroi and Persivul was decently reasoned and he doesn't come across as being opportunistic at all regarding pushes or votes.
his #380 was antagonistic to a lot of players (even the ones he was calling town!) in his readlist which I feel like is something scum wouldn't want to do.
I know people are voting him for low content but I think it's just a lazy playstyle more than anything.

-

For Persivul, it's mostly just tonal. Stuff like #426 sounds genuine for example.
I can't really articulate this one, sorry.
I do agree with his latest read-list for the most part though.

Are you still town-reading Persivul?

that's the question isn't it?
as of now, yes.
i'm town-reading all 3 names that were early-pushing shotty.
at least one of them had to be bussing though. I need to re-read and sort that out.

[Maxous]

Mostly because scum shotty < scum Pers imo. Maxous hammering shotty like that when I "allowed" it - didn't sound convincing.

look, i don't the energy to argue at the moment, but when you tell me to hammer, don't complain when I hammer.
The game was stalled and nothing was happening. The only reason to wait was for your catch-up and when you said you weren't doing it there was literally no reason left to prolong the day.

[Maxous]

thinking about it, I would agree with the point that of the 3 power roles, framer is the most disposable.

[Maxous]

i'll explain in depth later but i'm thinking Aneninen is scum here.

I don't like how he is analysing the game at all.

[Maxous]

even apart from the result crumb, I would highly doubt that the scum-team is Clumsy & chilledtea.
Which means somebody threw Shotty under a bus big time.
Maybe even both of the buddies.

Why are you ruling out Clumsy?

Oh, Shotty was under a bus? Yesterday's news.

The first thing that triggers me is this post. The bolded.
He's saying it's obvious that Shotty was hard-bussed.
Ok, but he thinks the scum-team is me and Clumsy the two players remaining that town-read Shotty.
So Anen is of the opinion that Shotty

wasn't

bussed but he kinda off-hand dismisses my suggestion.

What are your other thoughts, because at least with my slot, this is wrong. Obviously anyone would say that, but given that you replaced into the last town PR, you're dying tonight I would think. What other teams could you see? What about Persivul? Why is no one talking about Anen or Cakez?

Back to Clumsy.

You're trying to widen the lynch-pool, which, again, looks like an attempt to save both of your and Maxous's aß.
We've been talking a lot about Persivul and we've examined SirCakez too, to conclude that he's likely town. If you don't like that there's no talk about me, why don't you launch it

?

Second trigger was this bolded.
Because we haven't talked Persivul or SC *that* much and I don't see how even entertaining the possibility of discussing them is auto discredit as "widening the lynch pool".
Anen thinks shotty being bussed is "yesterday's news", he agrees Shotty was possibly expendable but he doesn't seem to want to talk about the people in the possible bussing position.

-

based on #925 and #926, Anen is basing his reads almost purely on Vote Count Analysis.
I agree that VCA should factor in here but his reads is nearly 100% VCA and is not factoring in the actual play of anybody, which is a bit off.
Hypothetically it would make sense for scum!Anen to do this if he looks good in the VCA and can throw shade at everybody else who wasn't early on the Shotty wagon.

Adding the info from the two posts, one scum is in each pair:
Clumsy/Persivul
Maxous/SirCakez

Because of Day3, Persivul looks almost as scummy as Clumsy, but, as for the other pair, Maxous is much scummier than SirCakez.
I would lynch Maxous Today.

The key issue I have with how his reads formed is here.
He has set up a situation where he has created two 1 vs 1 on reads, citing one scum is in each group.
from what I can tell, the reasoning for the groups is that he thinks that scum buddies wouldn't jump on a wagon together in succession which is a pretty weak reason IMO.
but anyway, Anen is now in a position where is pushing my lynch because I am in a 1 vs 1 with SC. Not because i'm scummier than pers or clumsy, because i'm less town than SC.
It's flipping the burden of proof.

i'll explain in depth later but i'm thinking Aneninen is scum here.

I don't like how he is analysing the game at all.

Not only was this post empty as a treasury having checked by a politician native to our country, but it was terrible for another reason, too.
If you

really

thought I were scum, you should have voted for me. And as town, you might have added some reasoning, too...
But this, without a vote sounds like testing the waters whether a wagon on me would gain momentum.

VOTE: Maxous

or maybe i was just busy at that particular moment?
Anen jumps on me as soon as I suggest talking about the possibility that he is scum.
If I was town, I would of voted him. Not necessarily?
It was an over-defensive at the very least.

[Maxous]

I generally don't do quote-walls, i know people hate to read them

but i'm just trying to explain as clear and concisely as possible why i'm uncomfortable with how he is coming to the conclusions that he is coming to

[Maxous]

i'll avoid getting into a quote wall but i'll just highlight the main point here.
He is glazing over the 1 vs 1 groupings, which is the biggest point here.
He is calling me scum because i'm

less town

than SC.
Not because i'm scummier than Clumsy or persivul.
not to mention, the reasoning for these groupings is pretty weak.
If Anen is scum his buddy is very likely among Clumy or Pers because he is finding a very arbitrary way to protect them from the lynch.
I didn't misrep Aneninen because the reason I was last on Shotty is because I was town-reading him. So if i was buddies with Shotty, it would hardly be throwing shotty under the bus which is what i was talking about

[Maxous]

sure

VOTE: Aneninen

it's

certainly

not because you're deciding groups for basically no reason so you can flip the burden of proof here.
Instead of "hey who's scummiest", it's "hey, prove that Max is townier than SC"

[Maxous]

most of the reasoning i've seen is "you weren't on shotty early" and claims that i'm misrepping him, even though i'm not and explained exactly how i'm not?

he's talking out of both sides of his mouth regarding clumsy & pers as he wants his options to be flexible in lylo, IMO.
it's probably pretty classic scum-distancing. Name a buddy within 3 players and then hard push someone else on the list.

you wanna know why scum would bus hard on day 1? he has everyone eating out of his hand here.

[Maxous]

hard luck SC.

you did well carrying us as far as you got.