Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Ranger]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{BTD6, Masquerade}
{Charloux}
{Kasumeat, Javajoe}
{Killthestory, karnos}

One.

[Ranger]

Oh, hi.
I forgot.
Fresh fish!

[Ranger]

Ranger's reads are godlike. His accuracy is insane.

Well, then, wanna lynch one of them?

VOTE: Killthestory.

[Ranger]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Charloux, karnos, Kuroi}
{Killthestory}
{BTD6, Masquerade, Kasumeat, Javajoe}
Two.
VOTE: Masquerade.

[Ranger]

...Apparently I am very good at getting reads because a null read on the

moderator

is about as appropriate as you can get.

*facepalm*

[Ranger]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Javajoe}
{Charloux, karnos}
{Killthestory}
{BTD6, Masquerade, Kasumeat}
Three.

[Ranger]

Do you actually have strong reads yet or are even the bottom ones weak?

It's actually kinda in the middle. My top two tiers are fairly solid townreads, but my bottom two tiers are not fairly solid scumreads, as can be inferred by how they've swapped positions between pages. They're sort-of gaining steam though.

Agree with you mostly here, not sure where the btd6 scumread is coming from here.

They're no longer a scumread as of their response above, but I can explain where I was coming from on them if you'd like.

@Ranger: Mind explaining how Random came to be a top townread for you?

Given the read still holds and we're in early-game? No, not at this time. Ask again later.

I personally find it more like a confused Town.

Yeah, been here, done that, gonna shoot this down right now. Not town, not scum, just derp. I saw Kuroi post 49. That didn't register as a bump for a page top; it registered to me as a player posting in the RVS, but I couldn't read the post. It didn't feel inherently town, but I wasn't particularly bothered by it. Which, ironically, is a perfect description for the moderator, thus my 77.

But ranger is doing these reads by page I am thinking, and mod posts are colored, so I fail to see how an experienced player like ranger might get confused as town.

49 was not colored. Ergo, I thought Kuroi was a player, not the moderator, specifically

because

Kuroi had been coloring all his mod posts prior to then. Go check for yourself. Kuroi, as a moderator, posts in an ugly barely readable color on the maftigers skin I use. I don't really read who the moderator is. I'm in every ongoing Open game right now, so all moderators blend together; I see the game by the setup rather than who is modding it. Kuroi neglected to color his bump post, giving the impression to me he was a player. When I saw Kuroi answering questions in color, I was confused, until I realized my mistake. That simple.

[Ranger]

Oh, whoops, that was meant to have a readslist.

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade, Kasumeat}

[Ranger]

{randomidget, Kop}
{Creature}
{Charloux, karnos, BTD6, Javajoe}
{Killthestory}
{Masquerade}
{Kasumeat}

Mod: I moved my vote to Masquerade, but I'm still listed on the Killthestory wagon.

Though,
VOTE: Kasumeat.
Masquerade's no townread, but his 117 puts him a tier above Kasumeat. (They were otherwise equal in scumminess until that point.)

[Ranger]

PEdit: If you wouldn't mind explaining the BTD6 readm that would be great thanks

Sure thing. I liked 9 a little, so BTD started as a mild townread: not solid, but placed well enough on page one. 31 was a fairly typical first-Ranger-game response, except this line:

Can you even have such strong reads yet?

Rubbed me the wrong way. This was further amplified by 40, where they defended Killthestory and attacked the strength of my reads. It's one thing to ask how I can have reads, it's another to state it is impossible for me to have them, and BTD looked like they were doing the latter. The vote on you for pressure felt like a horrible afterthought thrown in to make them look like they were doing something. This bounced back in 79, because

that

was the way I was originally expecting a town player new to me to ask about my reads, yet I had given no prior indication of this and there were no hints in-thread that this is what I was looking for.

[Ranger]

{randomidget, Kop}
{Creature}
{BTD6}
{Charloux, karnos, Javajoe}
{Killthestory, Ozymandias}
{Masquerade}
{Kasumeat}

[Ranger]

But what doesn't make sense is that you wouldn't read the rest of his many posts before posting your read.

To my knowledge, that was his first post in the game. I did not see Kuroi posting prior to that, because again, I filter out the moderator as being, "oh, moderator post", not "oh, Kuroi the moderator posted".

And now you're scum-reading me because I cased you on what many people agree is a very suspicious post of yours.

One, I held the scumread on you well before then, two, it's cute that you think I'm scumreading you for that and not other things, and three, this is an appeal to majority.

[Ranger]

I was trying to ask how it was possible for you to have reads at all, when there was next to nothing of note so far as RVS is full of NAI.

I figure I can answer this at this stage. The site I come from has an extended RVS that lasts basically most of D1. Site culture on there evolved such that we can, reliably, fall back to RVS posting and learn alignments from it, be it D2, D3, D4, D5, or so on. It never becomes irrelevant, so we always check then recheck it and reanalyze it given new information.

This skill doesn't perfectly translate into mafiascum, but it translates at least well enough for me to reliably be able to get a good start.

[Ranger]

Everyone should be voting Kasumeat for 149 btw.

[Ranger]

I'm also very strongly thinking Ozymandias is Kasumeat's scumbuddy for what it's worth.

[Ranger]

And defending a scumbuddy in a two-man scum team is suicide.

To the contrary, if you don't defend a scumbuddy in a two-man scumteam, you lose.

"Buddying really fucking hard is not scummy at all, so don't vote me. Also, vote Kasu and Ozy because Ozy is buddying him." — Ranger 2016

Buddying is in fact a good reason for a player to be scum in this case. Do show how there's any buddying from me. It doesn't even have to be me to others, though that seems to be your implication; demonstrate the alleged buddying to me. I see none.

I agree that it was an horrible post, in general, but is it more likely to come from scum or town?

This is scum, defending scum, while trying to maintain a neutral stance: "Yes, it's bad, I agree it is bad, but..." is basically classical scum behavior, especially for a fairly new player.

As far as I know, scum can speculate about Masons in their thread.

The wiki says otherwise; they, along with the masons, have only night talk.

[Ranger]

The fact they defended them. It would be better to let them answer for themselves.

Ozymandias' defense is a bit bleh, but not too alignment indicative.

Uh...

[Ranger]

So where do you see the neutral stance?

The neutral stance is in trying to defend Kasumeat without actually defending him.

[Ranger]

The first was on masq's defense of kop which seemed to be jumping the gun to try and defend them on one point after a small amount of suspicion. The situation with Oz and kas is different.

I'd like to see how; they both seemed fairly similar to me. (The only difference being, I townread Kop and think Masquerade was white knighting, whereas I think both Kasumeat and Ozymandias are scum.)

[Ranger]

Find a quote where I try to defend him, without actually defending him.

I quite literally quoted it when I made the original accusation.

I agree that it was an horrible post, in general, but is it more likely to come from scum or town?

So I repeat. This is trying to defend him (the second half), without trying to defend him (the first half), ergo, neutral stance without actually being neutral.

[Ranger]

Now that i think about it, if Kasumeat wanted to end the day early, he would've waited for L-1 before voting... Guess he really was frustrated

This is not a game where scum want to self-hammer. One, they only have one scumbuddy. Two, their scumbuddy could be nightkilled. Three, longer days increase the chance of a mason being outed for them to kill. Four, Kasumeat's vote was fairly obviously meant as AtE. Five, by virtue of placing himself at L-1, he ironically decreased his chances of being lynched: nobody would hammer him, for fear of being called scummy for doing it so early.

I expect better of The Legendary Ranger.

Go look at what "Burden of Proficiency" is classified as on our wiki.
(Hint: focusing on the "Logical" half of it is focusing on the wrong half.)

He is scum because his reads are fake, not because he put the Moderator in his reads list.

I have given backing on each read I have been asked about. That's literally the opposite of faked.

Also, we have this nice thing called pronouns here. Mine is, as big as can be, listed as 'she'.

[Ranger]

MafiaScum Error 31520: You have already voted for this individual.

Oh? Do explain this, then.

Ranger - 4 - Kasumeat, Javajoe, Ozymandias, kasumeat

The mod scumslipped, is now a scumread.

[Ranger]

Please explain how Kop is your strongest town-read in the game and how he came to be so while not posting.

My list in 78 was off of page three. My list in 123 was off of what I had in 122, i.e., end of page four. (You can tell because all the quotes I am quoting are from that page: 79, 80, 84, 89, and 90, respectively.)

My list in 130 was based off all of page five and some of six, i.e., including...Kop's 104. So yes. He did post between the lists, because the lists were made from different pages.

[Ranger]

no when I was in my scum perspective before I looked back at my role, Ranger seemed pretty obvtown. I agree moreso with his reads here because

now I know I'm actually scum

, and that when I was in my scum mindset, he was scumreading me.

I know what you

meant

to say, but still...lulz.

[Ranger]

I'm going to reevaluate Killthestory since I buy that he forgot his role here.
I'm not absolutely sold he's town who thought he was scum; it's possible it's vice-versa, or it's possible he's a different scum than he thought, but this is something I need to look into more. I kind-of think it's more likely KTS was actually town-who-thought-he-was-scum and is sincere, but I need a second look to verify.

[Ranger]

And, actually...I kind-of agree with him about BTD; my BTD read has weakened again. I'd prefer not giving the details as to why, since I want to see more to verify. (If I told why they were looking worse, the behavior would go away; I'm looking for whether it continues or not without them knowing what I'm looking at.)

[Ranger]

If he thought he was scum, why would he claim he's scum?

:|
It's pretty obvious he meant to say town there.
He did, literally, claim scum, but that type of literal "lol must be a Freudian slip" is far more likely to come from town in my experience.

[Ranger]

Do you think KTS vs BTD6 is SvW?

I make no such attributions to most fights.

I think Killthestory is more likely town now than not.

I have my eye back on BTD.

They could be any combination of alignments as long as it's not both-same-scum.

[Ranger]

Sounds like coming from town that doesn't proofread their posts.

Exactly. Town that doesn't proofread their posts.
Unless you meant scum that doesn't proofread their posts, in which case you got some 'splainin' to do.

[Ranger]

The question you quoted was obviously rhetoric and was I supposed to say that it was a good post when it was not?

You were flat-out saying the post was bad. This you admit. You also were flat-out defending him. This is from the post itself where you ask what about it is scummy in spite of acknowledging it was a bad post. This is "trying to have your cake and eat it, too".

As for the whole mason claim: the correct play here is for me to neither verify nor contradict Killthestory's claim, for obvious reasons.

[Ranger]

Site down time really didn't change much. This is where I'm at right now:
{randomidget, Kop, Killthestory}
{Creature}
{Charloux, karnos, Javajoe}
{Masquerade, BTD6}
{Ozymandias, Kasumeat}

[Ranger]

"Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend."

<3

[Ranger]

Ranger, are the Masons you, KTS, and Kop? (If you choose not to answer say why)

Here's my answer for you.
VOTE: BTD6.
Kasumeat and Ozymandias are still scum, though.

[Ranger]

If I believed in too scummy to be scum......

[Ranger]

Javajoe24 - 4 - Ozymandias, Masquerade, randomidget, BTD6_maker

This is a pretty horrible wagon aside from randomidget, btw.

[Ranger]

I don't have anything to add to the game right now, sorry.

[Ranger]

"The saddest thing about betrayal is it never comes from your enemies." - Unknown

Debatable. If someone is betraying you, isn't that by its very definition mean they are your enemy? ;)

[Ranger]

Wife left me and mafia was the last thing on my mind.

Ouch. The quote about friends/enemies must hit a little too close to home after something like that. :(

[Ranger]

Kasumeat's offer to hammer pretty much proves he's scum, btw.

Pretty sure Javajoe's flipping town here. I don't object too terribly much, since that mislynch would not be meaningless (it'd help prove my reads), but I'd still prefer a lynch on a player actually scum.

[Ranger]

{Kasumeat, Ozymandias, Masquerade, BTD} contains all four scum I'm pretty sure.
Masquerade's interactions with this wagon are bad.
Kasumeat's interaction with this wagon is bad.
Ozymandias is likely Kasumeat's partner.
BTD is just obviously scum.

Lynching any of those four is my preference.

[Ranger]

??????

Offering to hammer is a decent scumtell in my experience.
Town players just hammer. They may offer intent if they want a claim (this part does not apply for this game), they may choose not to hammer when they have the opportunity, but they will not

offer

to hammer. They either do, or don't.

[Ranger]

If I had just hammered without offering, you'd be saying it also proves I'm scum.

To the contrary! I'd be reconsidering my read on you.

Sure, there's scum hammers all the time.

But I recognize the difference between scum hammers and town hammers.

You hammering then would have been a town hammer.

You didn't; instead you were cautious and offered to hammer, the scum move given the current scenario.

Ergo, you're scum.

[Ranger]

Like thinking she can call out all four scum on Day 1.

Well, not impossible; it's happened before. But to elaborate: I always expect to be wrong. That's one of the reasons my reads change as often as they do; I am under no illusions I am perfect. I'd make no progress if I, by default, assumed I was wrong. Ergo, my reads change when they have reason to.

ranger are you certain java would flip town?

Reasonably confident, yes. I think both scumteams think Javajoe is on the other scumteam.

[Ranger]

Uhg.

I think Javajoe is town and BTD is scum, but...

The game's stalled, and I'm beginning to get concerned we won't be able to get any other lynch than Javajoe. Which

sucks

. :S

[Ranger]

Knew this was coming the moment I signed up for this game.

<3

[Ranger]

I knew karnos could do it. <3

I also knew I was gonna be nightkilled.

The most humorous part is...I actually did, at first, accidentally have a real scumread on karnos. I thought my scumbuddy was BTD6, thus why karnos changed between my first readslist and my second, as I checked the chat and was like, "...oops. This is awkward."

[Ranger]

Btw, I decided I was killing Ranger when I saw I was scum and didn't see her name in my role pm.

I probably would have killed Ranger too. <3

<3

This is why I knew karnos would have to carry the game.

[Ranger]

Have to say it was more fun for me than the last game we played!

That's because you got to share my scum win. :P