Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[SirCakez]

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
TRAINED SO HARD!

[SirCakez]

VOTE: karnos wagonz
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66642
There's the previous game Podo

@dave - V/LA until July 4

[SirCakez]

Link to previous game? Would like to do some research.

I actually like my vote on this guy. Not only is there the "Look at me! I want to do research! I'm so Town!" angle, but it's also lazy. Assuming the "previous game" is the failed one Open 640, it's not hard to work that out.

I don't think this holds up after his further posting explaining why he asked.

MC what pinged you about Maruchan?

[SirCakez]

Oh I missed that.
I hate tonal reads so I'm disregarding that. I can see the part about how he's trying to look like he's doing something though, I skimmed through that initially but upon review it's a big ball of fluff.
VOTE: Maruchan

[SirCakez]

Imo Maruchan did well to get this game rolling. You could at the very least be a tad grateful. I dislike Sircakez calling it a big ball of fluff when literally it's one of the only posts made thus far that has attempted to progress the game. Why is Maruchan a big ball of fluff but nobody else is?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SirCakez

It was fluffy because it was all a big fencesit. It didn't really progress the game at all and I'm not sure why you think it did.
DixC's vote on Shotty for the dog story was really terrible as well.

[SirCakez]

It was a terrible vote, i;e made no sense as reasoning for a vote. Jury's still out as to whether it was from scum or town.

[SirCakez]

Imo Maruchan did well to get this game rolling. You could at the very least be a tad grateful. I dislike Sircakez calling it a big ball of fluff when literally it's one of the only posts made thus far that has attempted to progress the game. Why is Maruchan a big ball of fluff but nobody else is?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SirCakez

It was fluffy because it was all a big fencesit. It didn't really progress the game at all and I'm not sure why you think it did.
DixC's vote on Shotty for the dog story was really terrible as well.

Look closely, it generated a lot of material, asked questions to multiple players and contained a sufficient amount of things you could have taken issue with. Instead you chose to take issue with the fact that his post on the whole didn't condemn any one player...

It's a bit tall of an order for RVS in a game as slow as this don't you think?

Did it though? The only discussion and material I saw generated from it was the scumreads on Maru from it....

Spoiler:

What's pinging me about 27 is that I'm being talked to in a way (tone wise) that usually only comes about when someone has a strong town read on me later in the game. There's of course no way to know I'm town yet, unless you are scum. I also don't like the "it's a really good catch" part (feels like a buddy) but then saying it's not worthy of a vote. But then unless you give content he's highly inclined to vote. It feels like he doesn't have a real opinion, but he's trying to make it seem like he does.

I'm goign to jsut break this donw bit by bit.

1. Tone. You can gauge tone over internet? Have you gotten in contact with all the famous things like Ripley's Giuness, etc (IDK how to spell them)? Might be able to sell this skill as an oddity.

Real number 1 now that the sarcasm is over: You decided that I was acting like I had a town read on you, based off of me explaining something? Like are you for real? No. I don't have a read on anyone. I suck at reads. Over analyzing and making cases and arguments I'm good at. Implying that because I overtly explained a concept to you, means i have subconsciously labeled you as town, is just dumb. Whats even dumber is to do so "based on past experience" when that past experience is with complete random other people that aren't me. I like to be able to communicate/explain/teach. I enjoy the feeling that something i expanded up[on helps someoen else understand something better. Period. real life, mafia, good/bad guy, whatever. Thats a personality trait. Deal with it.

2. Saying pointing out someone's good catch's is buddying. So we're all independently scummhunting here? there's no group cohesion?

Mod go ahead and close the topic, we don't need it anymore. We can scumhunt without the rest of these fools, on our own. That whole group-process to finding scum is overhyped apparently

(I guess I wasn't done with the sarcasm). Pointing out that you didn't notice something, that someone else did, and that you agree with it, encourages more content from them. It's a concept called positive reinforcement. Think of potty training a dog. I'll give three examples that are the most similar to ways I could have reacted to someone else posting good content. So, I have a new dog I'm trying to pottytrain. he goes pee in the house. Lets take option 1. Ignore it and not give positive or negative reinforcement. He has no lesson to learn one way or the other as I haven't given him a lesson. He continues to pee in the house. He pees outside. We take Option 1 again and not give a positive or negative reaction. He never gets pottytrained nad he keeps peeing inside and outside, both good and bad actions, and he never becomes a better dog. Skip to option 2. He pees inside. You scold him. You punish him. You've negatively reinforced the behavior. He goes pee outside, no reaction. He's confused. He knows you DON'T want him peeing inside, but doesn't know that you DO want him peeing outside. Maybe he thinks he just cant pee in that room, and he tries another room, still a bad action. eventually by process of elimination, he will learn that the only thing that is not negatively-reinforced is the outside. the one good option. this takes forever. Skip to option 3. He goes pee inside. You do nothing. he doesn't stop peeing inside, no lesson learned. he pees outside. you give him a treat. he goes ecstatic over that treat and wants to learn how to get more. he goes pee inside again and gets no treat. he gets a treat when he goes pee outside. OH SHIT. He's just learned the quickest way to get treats is to pee outside, and he IMMEDIATELY ceases peeing inside, because he wants fuckin treats yo! You've just pottytraiend your dog.


of coruse the most efficient way is to combine postive and negative reinforcement to back each other up, BUT IF YO UCOULD ONLY postive OR ignore OR negative, the best thign is to positive.

same thing to player participation in a game. You keep telling them they are doing the right thing, you appreciate their efforts, you want them to continue trying, you'll get good engaged, players who actively try to scumhunt.
you just keep telling them when they are wrong, they get apathetic, they lurkmoar, they proddodge, they resent you, the game stagnantes.


I think telling someone they made a Good!Post, is the best option here yeah? Not buddying. Encouraging pro-town behavior.


3. Not worthy of a vote. This is fucking Page 1, Day 1, less then 10 posts into the game, random voting/question stage. NO CONTENT here is usually EVER worthy of a Serious!Vote, this early. I was not willing to make the irst Serious!Vote of the game, based of this little.

You have no qualms, you mate the first Serious!Vote of the game, on me, for over-analyzing something. While your justification is misguided, your willingness to stick your neck out earns townie points. good job. Now just try to annoy me less when you earn your towny points and we'll get along just fine.


4. I didn't have a really good opinion. I wasn't trying to seem like I was. I apologize if you got that impression. I was merely trying to expand on a point that was only briefly made, to more publicly cement that point into the collective group psych, so as to ensure it stuck, and wasn't glossed over. Later, based on podoboq's future actions, this point is either 100% null, or can back up a pattern of future scummy behavior.


Glad to see my inherent personalty quirks continue to get me scumread out the gate. Go take a quick meta on the playerslots in my most recent 2-3 games, and tell me you see any difference in the play of my first post here than in those, and then take a look at what roles i flipped in them.


I love how you and SirCakez are pinging on me for "trying to appear to do something when not actually doing anything" when that's exactly what we were pinging on podoboq about. -.-



Literally #62 and #63 stopped me from frustration replacing out after #60 and my last game I played. I'm sick of people getting on me for over-explaining stuff, when that's just my fucking personality


Ranger wtf is your #64-#66, I don't even understand. You did that same shit last game and i never fucking understood wtf you were doing



@Murdercat #95, proddign someone to respond to your post, when they have yet to post after it is stupid. They likely haven't read your post yet. Take al ook at their "Last Online" on their profile.

Or meta me in any game for the past 3 years, and learn I'm in the Navy and have a hectic schedule, and if you read an older game you'd know we go underway often where I only get internet during Evening hours, and if you read a recent game you'd know I'm on deployment right now, which is permanently underway, with internet only during evening hours. I literally cannot respond to your post any quicker.

be assured, I do read each and every post, and I do make massive wall-style catchups to every post since my last post. I just take awhile to do it. If i don't respond to a specific line of inquiry, AFTER I make my post, fee lfree to ping me on it.

Good god
Before I proceed analyzing this - Maru do you normally make a lot of walls?

@post 98

UNVOTE:

Those are all really damn good points, and more importantly, exactly the response I would expect from town. In my experience, scum tends to worry about showing that something got under their skin. Not so here.

And this unvote looks scummy. It looks like he realized he was in way over his head after Maru's gigantic wall and wanted to disengage. Nothing in that wall is something I think ONLY town would do.

[SirCakez]

I'll catch up here tomorrow, sorry

[SirCakez]

L-1

We are either all on scum or there's scum on the wagon. So let's figure out if podo is legit scum or if some of the votes look sketchy.

I agree with this. Way too fast of a wagon.

"woah, l-1 legit on page 6? No no no, I'm not saying podo isn't scum but it seems more likely that this is a scum driven wagon. Could be both."

if this isn't a guilty mindset that betrays you already knew you were voting a townie, Idk what is.

This stinks, multiple other people have the same mindset here and you only jump on Shotty for it?

[SirCakez]

pedit: right now i'm thinking karnos/shotty is tvt and they need to get the fuck over themselves.

^^^

Will post catchup shortly. Lots of good stuff for me to comment on I see (Y). RE: whoever asked me if I always do walls, yes. See my last post regarding the restrictions on my internet access, and you'll understand I can't be here during the progressing discussion, but I still have my 2 cents about the discussion I wish to toss in, and make sure they are heard, so that equates to wall posts when lots of content happens in the 12 hour days I have without internet access. Expect my next wall (in like an hour or two) to be on the same level as my last.

I think my read on Maru might have been wrong then. The walls are NAI in this case. Moving Maru to nulltown for the wall he posted later after this.

Here's a readslist. General thoughts coming up after.
If they aren't on the list, I've determined they don't have enough content to start trying to inform a read.

TOWNY:

Spoiler: karnos

He was right that unvoting me is bad play. You should keep the pressure on so that if I'm scum, the pressure causes me to post weird and gives you an opportunity to read me. Pointing out that theory could have come from scum or town, but when so many people came off my wagon, it seems like legit annoyed town, rather than scum.

Spoiler: Maruchan

Already explained. I liked his wall. Haven't read the recent one, yet. That's next.

Spoiler: Transcend

Recent interactions are pretty good. I like that he calls out karnos and shotty as probably TvT, and asks them to break it up, when what they're doing is causing a rift in the town. Can only be scum if shotty is also scum, and he was coaching, which I'm just gonna say is unlikely.

Spoiler: DixC

Interaction with shotty is too insensitive to be scummy. If I'm wrong, and he's actually just that bad at being scum, then it should be easy to lynch him in the future, so I'm willing to just assume he's town for now.

NULL:

Spoiler: Chip Butty

In general, I like his thoughts on the game, but it also seems like he's not searching for town, which is scummy.

Spoiler: drmyshottyizsik

A lot of bad interactions, but I've yet to determine if they're scummy or just shotty feeling off, which would make sense. Unvoting me was weird, and could be scum going for town points, but usually scum don't unvote there in fear that the wagon dissolves. Basically I'm just torn here, but there's a lot to read.

SCUMMY:

Spoiler: Smithereens

Bad play on my wagon. I don't like how Smithereens defended Maruchan, but then is also voting me when I unvoted Maruchan. It seems inconsistent. If Smith saw what I saw with Maru, I feel like he'd come to my defense, or at the least, stay out of it, but instead he voted me.

My vote looks sketchy~~

I had an irresistible urge to just lynch a fucker, I'm not gonna lie to you :3 I'm awful.

There's still time to unvote him and lynch someone else though...

This is scummy.

Spoiler: MURDERCAT

Seems opportunistic, and posts a lot without contributing much of anything. He seems to be the second person to say anything he says, which is a sign of someone trying to blend in while still pushing their own agenda.

Spoiler: Ranger

In my experience with Ranger (day one of Musical Mafia), her reads were pretty damn good. She's scumreading me here (more than anyone else), despite townreading me as town in that game. If she's so good at reads, there are three options: 1) I'm actually scum and she's right, 2) I'm actually town, and she's scum supporting a lynch without pushing it, or 3) I'm just way harder to read than I thought. I know that (1) is out. I don't think it's (3). Plus, this:

I would like to know why you seem to have me in the definitely scum tier and why karnos seems to be chilling in the definitely town tier.

I don't recall making a statement like this!

She literally has me at the bottom of her tierlist in all three of her reads posts, and karnos at the top in the last two. I've seen how her tier lists are organized from Musical Mafia, so I'm assuming she's using the same style, where bottom is certainly scum and top is certainly town. So I have no idea where that quote is coming from.

Also moving to think Podo is nulltown. I like these reads.

VOTE: Smithereens

[SirCakez]

how come you jabbed at smith for his defense on maru but you somewhat low-key defend maru as well?

Smithereen defended Maru, but then voted me, when the only logic to vote me is that I townread Maru. It's inconsistent. Also, I did not "somewhat low-key defend maru." I thought I was pretty overt.

There was no defense for Maru intended just btw, it was supposed to be an attack on SirCakez for something I found really inconsistent myself about his attack on Maru. I think you should go back and read my post vs SirCakez because it raises a valid point which you missed.

It's called a chainsaw defense

I'm concerned that your preternatural capabilities are not on display this game.

My abilities are largely reactionary.

Game's too active, I have trouble tracking everyone. (This, incidentally, is why I lurk in Larges.) Game's too inactive, there's almost nothing for me to track.

Still, gotta make do with what you've got. And what I've got is an unchanged list from 66.

Why do I feel like you're barely doing anything here? I'm not getting my usual obvtown vibes from you....

Right now I'm thinking most of the active posters are town and scum is in the lurkers with the exception of Smithereens.

[SirCakez]

Cakez what do you think of MC?

Haven't paid much attention to him. Lemme reread.

Why do I feel like you're barely doing anything here?

Because I'm barely doing anything here?

Pls do more then.

[SirCakez]

Took a quick ISO dive, also looked at Penguin since he's getting votes
MC is nulltown, Penguin is a heavy scumread

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cakes
I find it hugely scummy when you are trying to get others to produce content when your content is eh and rather than do anything your self you just seem to sheep and demand the opinion of others.

p edit
oh what a surprise the latest wagon you are scum reading, but are carefully not yet voting eh

The first part makes no sense
The second should be obvious, I'd rather pressure active people then lurkers

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

I implied it might be because Ranger can be lazy as scum (my experience with her suggests this is the case).

Lazy is literally my playstyle.

Where do you think I got into the habit of posting nothing but readslists in the first place?

Why do I feel like you're barely doing anything here?

Because I'm barely doing anything here?

Ranger, comparing post rates and updates I see a significant difference in this game: what are some queries that might help you out here?

Mostly, talking to others. I suppose talking to me is not without benefits, but I can't think of anything. Like I said, largely reactionary.
{karnos, Aneninen}
{SirCakez}
{Smithereens, shotty, Chip Butty, Murdercat}
{DixC}
{Maruchan, Transcend}
{podoboq, PenguinPower}

Scum read: too lazy to do work but so not-lazy that you'll work on telling people that you're lazy? Also preternatural lack of lazy basis for good outcomes... crazy, yes, lazy, no.

Town Read:Not concerned enough with my question to actually answer it. Has podoboq at bottom of the list.

On the one hand, this game is off to a very slow start.
On the other hand, I'm curious to see how ranger's read lists look with such a small sample of posts to read from.

Whut?
As the first post on Page2?

Maruchan's 27 is forced. Scummy.
Murdercat has noticed it in 28. Good. Townish.

VOTE: karnos
game to slow? let's get a wagon rolling!

L-2

La wow! If Maruchan's scum, Shotty's scum too.

and an inconsistency worth owning up to.

Hate to be that guy, man, but that looks an awful lot like coaching.

No, I'm saying that he should have owned up to it. He didn't. He defended the inconsistency, and it's the fact that he didn't own up to it that's a problem.

WTF? I made the point about taking pressure of in #50. #51 was unrelated, from Karnos. And that quote I said could have been coaching was in #52. Shooty didn't reply at all to #50, but you say he defended the inconsistency??? That's BS, pure and simple.
Now you are definitely on my scumdar.

Parrot Bebop.

Podoboq seems to be flailing, eg. 56.

{karnos}
{SirCakez}
{Aneninen, Murdercat, Smithereens}
{Chip Butty, shotty}
{Maruchan, DicX, PenguinPower, Transcend}
{podoboq}

Ranger's town again. Good to know.

scum read: is scum if maruchan and shorty are scum
town read: is not scum if Ranger is scum

OK, so Maru is basically obv town to me. If you don't understand why, try treading what he posts. If it still doesn't make sense to you, slap yourself in the face three times, then ask me why, and I'll spell out for you how Maru is being the most supportive of pro-town play and showing the most opposition toward people who are showing anti-town play.

Scum read: is scum
Town read: is scum

What the heck does this mean?

What makes you dislike that post Ranger?

...Stuff.

I know that's a cop-out (no pun intended, given the setup) answer, but I'm actually not in the state of mind where I can answer. Just getting caught up in all of my games and going to sleep for tonight. (I'm planning on putting more attention into them over the weekend.)

Pls do more then.

I'll do more when I feel like it. (And have energy for it, which I don't, but the feeling like it is just as important.) I currently do not.

Why aren't you happy with the Smithereens wagon?

[SirCakez]

Before posting more content... where did that Smithereens wagon come from?

It should be obvious if you're reading the game

The game is stagnanting. Transcend's jump on Anen stunk. Anen is a null read still because I have no clue how to read him. Dix is also sinking to a scum read.
Want Smithereens/Penguin dead today

[SirCakez]

Catch up here later

[SirCakez]

Why aren't you happy with the Smithereens wagon?

Because it has people I'm suspicious of on it, while being on a player I do not find suspicious.

I disagree on the latter, I find Smith highly suspicious. The voters are so-so.

This is a scum driven wagon.

And what makes you say this?

I think the people on my wagon are scummy. That's transcend, Karnos, podo. At least 1 is scum. I'm going to bed now, sorry tell me what you want specifically and I'll provide it tomorrow.

This is a pretty weak scum pool.

[SirCakez]

Karnos is pushing murdercat for looking like he's just trying to look busy.
I'm pushing murdercat for looking like he's just trying to look busy.
Murdercat says Karnos is probably town, but I'm coming up with BS reasons to push him, when Karnos and I have the same reason to push him.

There is an inconsistency there.

I don't think Murder is trying to look busy, he is getting wagoned after all...

My reads are mostly the same. Transcend has moved to my town pool for really obvtown posting over the last few pages. Maru and Podo have also moved into my townpool.

So townpool = (Maru, Podo, Transcend)
Scumpool = (Smith, Dix, Penguin)

[SirCakez]

Because I think I'm obv town, duh. DixC was also on me, I just missed a name.

Actually though, the fact that none of my strong town reads are on me makes me suspicious of my wagon.

hmmm ok

Rope it.

Yeah Smith's self vote and following posts were terrible

And then get rid of Aneninen, Mudercat, Shotty and Podo.

This scum pool is also awful

willing to policy lynch smithereens at this point. any town who is willing to self vote at any point in the game is inherently playing against his win condition, and therefor not following the spirrt of the game minimum, rules depending on the mod. No town member should ever actively play against their win condition and lynch someone they have undeniable mod proof of the alignment

If you ever self vote as town, know you just stopped playing mafia to win.

this post rots though. A PL at this point would be stupid and antitown.

Smithereens has called almost half of the players in the game scum. Just gonna point that out.

^ is also a good point

Transcend's posting from 18-20 is really really bad though, he drops out of my town pool for that.

[SirCakez]

Jesus, can we stop with the all caps? I'm tempted to hammer Smithereens just to stop this nonsense between you two.

^ scum posting

UNVOTE:

i actually don't think i'm ready for his flip before maruchan comes back and says some things.

this also could be scumposting but not as bad

Add Shotty to my town pool, Transcend to my scum pool

[SirCakez]

Even if you are town, and your flip verifies this, you are not infallible.

^ is one of the many reasons this isn't flipping town

VOTE: podo

This is a shitty vote and also a terrible hop on without posting any other content

>Maru scum slipped
>Trans scum telled
>Podo did both

I've seen this "scumsliP" from MAru be accurate before (Mafiaception)
But I think 645 is an acceptable answer to that so no

[SirCakez]

yall are fucking dumb and can't read a softclaim for shit

he just claiemd fucking doctor and says he thinks I'm a cop, and therefor finds my pro-town input to the game more important.



good job not letting that shit go. It was quite obvious that was a softclaim to anyone with a brain, but ya'll fools effed that up.

wat
Who?

RE: SirCakez, I can't find the game to which you're referring, could you link it please?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=64106
It's a bit of a dig but it was Peptobislawl who scumslipped by slipping he knew someone was town iirc

[SirCakez]

Will catch up tomorrow

[SirCakez]

He is saying podo softclaimed.

oh k

wtf are you doing you clowns podo is town
Smith is slipping out of this lynch despite obvscumming all game

ugh fine I'll join the PP wagon since he's a scumbutt too
VOTE: PenguinPower

[SirCakez]

So Dix is Penguin and Smith's scum buddy looks like

[SirCakez]

OMG
We can't hold a wagon together on anyone *facepalm*
Penguin's posting was terrible but the wagon in him dissolved for...no reason. That's a big scum tell.

Still stand by Penguin/Six/Smith scum team
I'm hammering Smith in the morning

[SirCakez]

Why not?

[SirCakez]

How the hell did Smith wriggle out of that yet again?
VOTE: Smithereens

Dunnstral slot is town pretty sure
Maru's posting was gross at times but I think Dunn's posting has been transparently town

[SirCakez]

I'll be home tonight so I'll be able to read a lot more in depth then, but from what I saw the wagon on you just sort of fell apart for no reason.
Like the one on Penguin.

[SirCakez]

Dunnstral slot is town pretty sure
Maru's posting was gross at times but I think Dunn's posting has been transparently town

Becauuuse of this ^

Also the wagon on him feels scummy af

[SirCakez]

I could potentially accept that proposal, let me think it over.

[SirCakez]

frustrated by the Smithereens flip
yeah the Doc should out

[SirCakez]

aw Ranger and MC are my two highest townreads too
I was hoping it would be someone nullish

[SirCakez]

My secret scumread was, and still is, SirCakez.

[SirCakez]

Scum is in Transcend/Penguin/Dix/Persivul p sure

[SirCakez]

I think he's town from posting ranging back a while

[SirCakez]

Dunn you're killing me

[SirCakez]

I think you're town but then you make scummy ass posts like 1062

[SirCakez]

Anen can you just give me BOTD and rope Dunn before me? Dunn's basically scumclaimed and scumslipped. I'm determined to get myself out of the mess I got myself into.

Is there no possibility in your mind that he's forcing interactions with me?

Is there no possibility in your mind that I'm actually town and aneninenen is the scumbird in this scenario?

well anen is a bird

idk if he is a scumbird

but he is a bird

this is terrible
VOTE: Transcend

[SirCakez]

^ prob Transcends buddy
Nice to know I was right on Podo too

[SirCakez]

Doesn't want to be on wagon when Dunn flips town I assume

[SirCakez]

With Transcend as the counterwagon? I doubt it.

Makes sense to me

[SirCakez]

Dix will go after scumscend does

[SirCakez]

He is but Transcend is also :/

[SirCakez]

can u not MC

[SirCakez]

It's town desperation posting p sure

[SirCakez]

Switching a vote once isn't really throwing votes around

[SirCakez]

Cake come on, are you for real? 2 posts apart? You scum too? I need to go reread the last game...

it's like he's thrown six different votes....

[SirCakez]

It's not his posting today, it's his posting yesterday
Also he's the counterwagon to scumscend

[SirCakez]

I think it's town desperation because I think he's town for other reasons, thus the desperation is probtown. It's not the desperation itself that looks town.

[SirCakez]

some mysterious vibes you got there

[SirCakez]

I was all over Dix yesterday wtf

[SirCakez]

fine u buttmunch
VOTE: DixC

[SirCakez]

Dix and Transcend aren't scum together probably, and Transcend CCed so it might just be Dix :/

[SirCakez]

MC with those sweet pre flip associative
More votes on Dix pls

[SirCakez]

How am I distancing from Dunn ROFL, I'm hard defending him

[SirCakez]

I give you a F in game solving

[SirCakez]

We just win if we cop/lynch all of Dix/Penguin/Transcend/Aneninen/Persivul

[SirCakez]

I'm town
Dunn is town
Chip is town
I'm assuming both of those are town because that would be really dumb gambits

[SirCakez]

I wouldn't have included myself but you put me in your list.

[SirCakez]

Yes because I'm town and I don't need to be removed for us to win (._. )

[SirCakez]

Seriously though podo, if we just lynch into DixC/Anenin I'm pretty sure they're both scum together, and then persivul is best bet for third scum

Right now, I'm in agreement with basically all of that. Could see wagoning Cakez instead right now, though.

[SirCakez]

Persivul what exactly are your reads?

[SirCakez]

Persivul what exactly are your reads?

I still have most of D1 to catch up on. There's been too much D2 posting, it's keeping me from catch up. I will say that the night action claims so far today have agreed with my early reads.

pls do catch up then

[SirCakez]

when dunn flips town I'mma slap all these people who are like "hurr durr cakez/dunn scum team"

[SirCakez]

when dunn flips town I'mma slap all these people who are like "hurr durr cakez/dunn scum team"

Why should I town read dunnstral?

because his posting yesterday was transparently town
he's been kind of flaily today but I think he's town desperate to try to push his scumreads through over him

[SirCakez]

[Chip Butty, Karnos, Transcend, Smithereens, DixC]
[SirCakez, podoboq, drmyshottyizsuk]
[Aneninen, MURDERCAT, PenguinPower]
[Ranger]

Not lynching smithereens/podoboq today please

Ranger's reads are really bad

VOTE: Ranger

Aneninen/MURDERCAT/PenguinPower all scummy

The top tier there is leantown

[Chip Butty, Karnos, Transcend, Smithereens, DixC]
[SirCakez, podoboq, drmyshottyizsuk]
[Aneninen, PenguinPower]
[Ranger, MURDERCAT]

I want Ranger or Murdercat today, let's flip the votes, what you guys have going here is terrible

what's up with the vanity vote on Ranger?

podoboq is town

smithereens is maybe maybe

Ranger is mafia

Care to join me?

These quotes are some examples
I don't think he'd attack these pretty widely townread players (murdercat, ranger) as scum, it invites backlash onto him (and he did get that backlash)

[SirCakez]

that's an example, it's not everything I think is town about him
It could be, but he stuck to those pushes pretty consistently instead of dropping them when he started getting pushed for it

[SirCakez]

lmao sorry that I don't agree with your bad scumreads

[SirCakez]

Where did Podo even give reasoning for his dunn townread?
your posts make no sense
"his reasoning is bad but it makes sense"

like ??? if it makes sense why is it bad?

[SirCakez]

Where did Podo even give reasoning for his dunn townread?
your posts make no sense
"his reasoning is bad but it makes sense"

like ??? if it makes sense why is it bad?

My explanation as to Dunn as obv town started way back when Maru was walling, and I thought that was towny, not scummy. But then it was solidified when Maru and I are the big counters to the Smith wagon, and Maru continued to defend me even when the Smith wagon was dissolving, while scum would have abandoned ship and jumped on my wagon at some point.

Murder is saying my reasoning is bad, but he can understand it as genuine.

k this makes more sense

when dunn flips town I'mma slap all these people who are like "hurr durr cakez/dunn scum team"

Why should I town read dunnstral?

because his posting yesterday was transparently town
he's been kind of flaily today but I think he's town desperate to try to push his scumreads through over him

What about that hammer yesterday? Are you going to say that wasn't bad?

No I thought the hammer was fine, Smith had to go

Podo's reasoning is that Dunn would have gone after him if Dunn were scum. I am giving podo some slack because Karnos cleared him and I think his reads have been not very good all game. I think you are better than that, tbh.

[SirCakez]

against my butter judgment i have a feeling dunn's town now

because you're scum and don't want to be caught on his wagon?

It is being infuriatingly difficult to put votes on Dix/Transcend. That's a big tell but nooo no one wants to pay attention to that.

[SirCakez]

True I guess

[SirCakez]

what the hell?
persivul made a good point that it's not infuriating for people who are scumreading dunn, and I agreed. That's just outright misrep.

but I expect that since you're scum

[SirCakez]

If you don't think cake is scum you are wrong.

lol

[SirCakez]

against my butter judgment i have a feeling dunn's town now

because you're scum and don't want to be caught on his wagon?

It is being infuriatingly difficult to put votes on Dix/Transcend. That's a big tell but nooo no one wants to pay attention to that.

That's only infuriating if you're trying to pull votes off dunnstral. For people scum reading dunnstral, it's no big deal.

How indeed!
And Cakes answer for this was very weird!

What was weird about it?

[SirCakez]

I don't think cakez' reaction was bad, but the initial point itself doesn't make sense. Wagons fail to take off for several reasons, one of which is simply that people don't find the player scummy. I don't see that a wagon failing to gain votes is a scum tell per se.

This is what i acknowledged

[SirCakez]

Persivul's making sense but he's not doing anything

[SirCakez]

What backs it is his iso which has very little scumhunting aside from his dunn push
I can't justify that for dunn

[SirCakez]

Persivul's making sense but he's not doing anything

Dunn gives reads with no explanation. Further, his reads change, sometimes after relatively few posts, and again with no explanation. I've asked him for reasoning on reads in 1355 and 1357 and got no response. I repeated those questions in 1408 and 1409 and got no response. Now he's self-voted. This is all very scummy. Where do you get off saying I'm not doing anything?

Outside of your dunn push you've done little

I'm town
Dunn is town
Chip is town
I'm assuming both of those are town because that would be really dumb gambits

What gambit are you referring to regarding Dunnstral?

I was referring to Karnos's cop claim iirc, not dunn

[SirCakez]

Dunnstral (6):

Aneninen

,

Chip Butty

,

DixC

,

PenguinPower

,

Persivul

, Dunnstral

This wagon sucks.

^

Dunn townflip sinks Pers in my reads even more

[SirCakez]

Trans is prob scum tho

[SirCakez]

VOTE: transcend
^ is still scum

dunn flip not surprising at all, dix flip very surprising

[SirCakez]

why would you believe all the claims? Transcend's claim is scummy as shit.

It's looking like Trans/Penguin/Pers to me now

[SirCakez]

why would you believe all the claims? Transcend's claim is scummy as shit.

What makes it scummy?

It's CCing flipped town

[SirCakez]

Ranger is definitely town imo

[SirCakez]

transcend's claim is fake though, dw

[SirCakez]

Yo, whoever is townreading Transcend, can they talk to me why?

[SirCakez]

Persivul your reasoning for that is very weak. Claiming Cop, especially in Transcend's situation, isn't indicative of town. And don't forget he CCed now confirmed town.

[SirCakez]

what are the odds of two n2 cops?

[SirCakez]

As someone noted, with randomness repeats are expected, not just one of each number every time. The test above supports that. I've played this setup with two N1 cops, and both hit scum.

Ok I'll give you this
But I still think he's scum

[SirCakez]

From his play
There's multiple quotes back in my ISO

[SirCakez]

voting with =/= should be townreading
especially since the people I've been voting have flipped town <.<

[SirCakez]

Oh hi wb Ranger what other thoughts do you possess?

[SirCakez]

Anen's wall was pretty bad honestly

[SirCakez]

no you must die then your scum buddies can go next
last-ditch bussing won't work on me

[SirCakez]

because you're being a pain to push through

[SirCakez]

because you're being a pain to push through

A lot of the resistance to Transcend's wagon seems to be coming from conf* town. This only seems like a pain in the ass if you're scum pushing for a mislynch.

i'm not paying attention to who's resisting it, I just know it's being way too hard to lynch

I'm a cop

[SirCakez]

ffs we should have lynched Transcend
We nolynch now I think?

[SirCakez]

^ scum scum scum

[SirCakez]

Like how Anen was scum?

[SirCakez]

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

[SirCakez]

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

Because the n5 cop was confirmed town?

[SirCakez]

He was a Cop who was never going to be lynched, then
Meanwhile I'm getting mislynched so I think the scum killing Podo over me makes a lot of sense, huh?

[SirCakez]

that makes no sense, podo would never be mislynched and they'd have to go elsewhere for the mislynch they need
podo was likely to be protected tomorrow night

[SirCakez]

I really don't think Ranger is scum
Persivul/Transcend/Chip?

[SirCakez]

look back in my ISO
it makes a ton of sense

[SirCakez]

I thought I had more but apparently not
It was mainly things back before you got serious pressure
Coasty posting, opportunistic voting on now-confirmed town, terrible reaction to pressure from Smithereens
P-edit: that was a LONG time ago when I said that

[SirCakez]

you could try to lynch me and win the game for you and your buddies, yes
but you won't because it's too risky and could backfire on you

[SirCakez]

Transcend pushing Ranger as scum continuously when he's been told it's ridiculously unlikely is another reason I think he's scum fyi

[SirCakez]

Seems like you are scum looking for anything to push him with tbh.

ya definitely

[SirCakez]

No, transcend

[SirCakez]

Who's even voting me right now?

[SirCakez]

You idiots Ranger is nearly conf town and her reads are good and you're ignoring them

[SirCakez]

Since Transcend is scum you're probably scum too. Not hard.

[SirCakez]

Basically if chip comes and doesn't hammer cakez then cakez is confirmed scum to me.

The reason is: a confirmed town slot is voting him rn. So unless the team is karnos persivul and chip, then this is conf red to me (and only me).

So the only world in which I'm town to you, town just loses anyway? The hell is that?

[SirCakez]

Podo hadn't acted yet?
I'm not sure why you guys are so confused by this, it's really transparent. Ranger understood it fine.

[SirCakez]

Ranger isn't scum, not surprising -_-

[SirCakez]

You're in a scum PoV lol

[SirCakez]

I need a hammer to knock some sense onto Persivul

[SirCakez]

this day feels like it's gone for weeks

[SirCakez]

{pers, trans, karnos, penguin}.

The entire scum team is definitely in here lol

[SirCakez]

we might be waiting a while....

[SirCakez]

If I get lynched then scum just wins unless a doc stops a kill
scum team is likely pers/transcend/penguin

[SirCakez]

i think the bloc of {Transcend, Persivul, MURDERCAT, PenguinPower} is solid town. Any of the middle two being scum results in me nomming them for a scummy.

I've read karnos as town for most of the game as well... if he's scum he's playing well I might need to re-iso him to make sure he's town.

With a town karnos makess the scumteam {Ranger, SirCakez, Chip Butty}

PEDIT: Me neither

The one time she was town I was scum!!!! That did not go down so great either!!!

Man I wish it was this easy to get nommed for scummies

[SirCakez]

gg
Thanks for carrying me Karnos and Chip lol

[SirCakez]

Fine with mafia chat being released

[SirCakez]

at least I did a good job setting up associations with ranger if nothing else >.<

[SirCakez]

well I mean my deathtunnel on you should have made it clear we weren't buddies
not sure why people still pushed that after I flipped scum

[SirCakez]

Not really? You were SO buddy-buddy with me that it should've showed anyone who was actually bothering to research (which was...nobody in the game) that I was town, because you wouldn't have defended a scumbuddy as hard as you defended me.

But no one was doing the research, so it just looked like "scumbuddies" on the surface level skimming everyone was doing