Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[shaddowez]

Hi all!

VOTE: shaddowez

That guy must be scum

[shaddowez]

Hi all!

VOTE: shaddowez

That guy must be scum

Did you recruit the traitor?

It's against site rules for me to out my team.

Sora

- What sort of intentions do you have during RVS?

[shaddowez]

Shadow is town. Just encase anyone here doesn't realise.

Why? I don't realise.

Vedith said I'm town, therefore I am!

In other news, NJAC may have townslipped (or is faking it really well).

[shaddowez]

In the game I ran, the way roles ended up more abilities actually hurt scum. Not sure what they did here, but later in the day I have some strategy I can recommend.

[shaddowez]

In other news, NJAC may have townslipped (or is faking it really well).

How so?

It's unlikely scum would be questioning my alignment

[shaddowez]

I sort of want to vote Sora right now, but want to wait to hear more from them first.

[shaddowez]

@shaddowez - Pretty sure he could've just missed lilith saying you were town

It's definitely possible, but don't you think scum would look for an IC in a game where it's a known possible role?

[shaddowez]

UNVOTE:

Ok lets see...

@Shadowez just because you are now the only reliable honest person in this town does not mean you should start acting the village idiot. Shape up man. You are the only person here who can push people without any consequences. Less self voting and more *slap slap look me in the eye son and tell me how much you love this town*

Are you always this serious? It was an RVS vote, and I did it for a reason.

@NJAC, the vote on shadowez reads automatic reaction to me, like someone who's played SE/IC in one too many newbie games and has had to deal with someone doing that once too often thinking their funny or clever.

I'm actually more uncomfortable with the pre-reroll choices talk, but I wasnt there for any of that so its probably simply the unknown that has me unsettled. As Vedith points out it is useless info with the potential "depending how the game goes" of polluting how people might think later in the game of certain players or scenarios.

I'm fine with Vedith postings and superbowl9 (though I agree that daytalk is a strong power so side with superbowl9 on that)

What is it you like about Vedith's posting?

The only posts I didnt like were Kyndy101's posts here

Why did you feel the need to answer for NJAC?

so UNVOTE: Vedith
VOTE: Kyndy101

I also dislike the follow up excuse to drop an RVS vote

obviously rerolls are random, they are not likely or more likely to contain anything different to the previous roll

but more importantly why did you feel the need to justify dropping an RVS vote at all?

Do you think answering for somebody else is inherently scummy, antitown, or just an annoyance? Is there actually something in the content of her answer that made you vote her?

Sora

- What sort of intentions do you have during RVS?

My initial intentions during RVS are just that: to vote completely randomly. Then, if I see any wagon developing or any particularly interesting thing, I'll place my votes differently, which brings us on nicely to how the game has developed so far.

So you pay no attention to any actions/interactions that happened prior to you placing your initial RVS vote?

~~~~

So, these are initial reads on the people who I think are the most striking so far, based on what I've seen - these are by no means accurate at all, but are just general impressions.

Quick reads
NJAC - Initial post shows signs of cluelessness. I’m inclined to read the vote on shadow more as town than as scum, because imo scum wouldn’t want to portray themselves as obviously clueless (this is fairly weak reasoning though, criticize me on that). Trying to bring up the point about the scumteam and what they did, is something that seems to be leaning townish as well - that he’s actually trying to actually do something within the game right now, instead of being passive (even though I definitely do not like the idea in the first place) I do not like, however, how quickly he moved to following the Innocent Child’s vote as soon as he realised he was the IC. I can see that he’d want to ‘make things happen’, using my previous line of logic, but it also seems to me that he’s trying to get on the IC’s good side, if only a little bit. Current read right now right now is null with a very slight lean towards town, as I can concede there are good reasons for following the IC in the RVS.

Vedith - I suppose the most notable things about Vedith are twofold. One, his reaction towards the scumteam suggestion NJAC put out, and two, his response. I like the way that Vedith's acted so far, as he's definitely showing a willingness to contribute though he admits that the overall aim of the discussion was pointless - it definitely seems to be a town-oriented mindset. However, his reactions towards kyndy101 and the other voters seem to be a little bit of an overreaction considering the relative lack of pressure on him. In that sense, then, I agree with Lycan's assessment that he's being over-defensive. What's more, he doesn't seem to be doing scumhunting on his own later on, which leads me to consider that he was participating in discussion for the sake of taking part in discussion. He also seems to have a few relatively useless posts that I'm not a fan of. They seem to be aimed at diffusing the tension while not contributing much at all - which is something I definitely don't like. Overall, though, I'm going to keep an eye on him and completely understand why people would vote against him.

Kyndy101 - I actually both agree and disagree with Sir Bastion that the random RVS unvote is somewhat suspicious. The unvote itself shows a little bit of passivity that I think is a bit more mafia-ish than town-ish, a little reticence and hesitation. However, I can also understand that the vote itself was made a little quickly to begin with, as the fact that superbowl was a goon did slip my mind as well - while I definitely don’t agree with the reasoning of retracting an RVS vote based on chance, it’s understandable. The Vedith vote is also fine in terms of getting things going (again, it’s possibly? still RVS, so I guess it’s acceptable), and she did say she’s going to make a case against Vedith tomorrow, which I’d love to see before passing further judgement. This post here is probably the most damning piece of evidence on what would otherwise be a null read, at least in my eyes. It seems to be a little bit reactionary and is more defensive than anything else in defending herself so avidly in response to a very small wagon. There is some slight nervousness here that's slightly suspicious, but again I'll hold off on further suspicion until the post explaining the Vedith vote is explained.

Seeing this, I'll UNVOTE: Lycanfire and VOTE: kyndy101, at least until kyndy101 makes her next post.
~~~~
Quick edit: Completely agree with Sir Bastion on the point about answering another's question - but again, I'm waiting to see kyndy's rationale on the Vedith vote before pressing further

I agree with pretty much all of the reads here. Urge to vote you has faded for now.

Honestly, I would normally reply to this post with "it's a little too early in the game to be having reads" but then again, I definitely have a read on Vedith. If anyone wants to know that doesn't see Vedith being scummy, I'll make a solid case perhaps tomorrow morning.

I'm interested in this case of yours.

[shaddowez]

I'll have some reads up in a little while

@Mod

- Shouldn't we have prods and/or replacement requests at this point for the hydras?

[shaddowez]

Sorry for disappearing, work kicked my butt the last couple days. Promising a catch up shortly!

[shaddowez]

Alright everyone, somewhat of a catchup, but lame for what it is:

Heebee

- There's nothing here. 191 is an empty reads list, which has {unreadable} and {null} as separate groups. 193 uses basically the same defense of "It feels towny/scummy to me". There's also a strange disconnect of 190 being hebi and saying he'll read up, and then all the other posts being bee...and then nothing. Nullscum based on the little content there is so far.

HighHopes

- I like the progressing reads list that I can only guess are as they're reading? An "Up to Page" or something similar, with some more info, would be great. The fact there's no content makes it tough to get a read, but I do like 254 and 255. Want to see more from them, but nulltown here.

kyndy

- I was reading her as pretty strong scum early in the game. The unvote on SuperBowl in RVS (26) feels unnatural, and the conversation regarding NJAC voting me/not seeing me as IC just doesn't sit right. Her "big case" on Vedith is weak as anything, and was largely based on posts made after she said she had a case. Her catchup in 263 is scattered and still seems to be a lot of empty questions. Wall posts that make it look like she's trying to do something, without actually providing much in the way of solid reasoning or scumhunting. Still one of my strongest scumreads.

light_ganski

- Another scumread. Most of his posts seem opportunistic, with little reasoning provided. The only post that appears to have any effort is 202, and while I realize effort =/= alignment, I still don't like it. Most of his reads seem to be fencesitting at best - lycan

could be

scum; NJAC is scum because he likes superbowl's case; Vedith is partly scum because he likes kyndy's posts (and kyndy is town because her reads match his on Vedith). 232 also lines up Vedith for a mislynch if Vedith is indeed town.

lycanfire

- More nullscum (I have way too many scumleans this game). His early posts are all fluff, and 266 is a useless wall. 269 rubs me the wrong way, even if it was a "joke" post.

NJAC

- I actually like his questions. He seems to be looking for motivations, which is a townie thing to do. He also seems to have thoughts behind most of what he's saying, which is often difficult for scum to produce.

Raskolnikov

- Nothing to say, included for completeness sake. Have fun coming back from V/LA to this...

Bastion

- Bastion is null. I like the posts he does have, but he's only interacting with a couple of people. His case against Sora is decent, but it almost reads like a playstyle read than anything they've actually done. I don't think Bastion is groupscum, but could possibly see him as traitor.

Sora

- Townlean. Their posts don't seem to come from an informed POV. I also like the progression of their reads.

superbowl

- My strongest town read. Engaging, answering questions, trying to find motivations. Pretty much everything town should be doing. If anyone that's scum reading superbowl could explain why, I'd appreciate it.

Vedith

- Ah, Vedith. Not quite sure where to start. His joking nature definitely came off as scummish early on, but I'm fairly certain that he's been mislynched in several games I've been in with him because of it. I'm not quite sure I understand the claim, but it's a pretty risky gambit this early on if he's scum. Townread for now, partly on PoE, and partly on the claim.

I think for now this is where I want my vote, though.
VOTE: light_ganski

[shaddowez]

@shadow: Why did you make a question about RVS specifically to Sora instead of asking to others? Why did you say you wanted to vote him? Also, what stopped you from voting him, given that a single vote was harmless at that point?

Not sure I ever answered this, so I will here - Sora was the second person to post after I did my self-vote in RVS. It was unusual for not just one but two people to completely ignore a self-vote, especially with me having been mod-confirmed town. It's possible that they both missed the IC post as well, but then it makes even less sense for them to not comment on the self-vote. While my vote didn't matter, since it's know that I'm town what does it matter that I did or didn't vote?

[shaddowez]

Liking Raskol's catchup, throwing them in my town pile for now.

Probably won't be posting again until Monday.

[shaddowez]

Vedith, who are your scumreads? Why ask people to move from the larger, yet still slow moving, wagon onto a smaller wagon?

[shaddowez]

@shaddow (and kinda everyone) would you be ok with an NJAC lynch today? Who would you lynch over him?

I'd rather lynch light or Heebee. My gut's saying not scum on NJAC.

[shaddowez]

Shadow's post was pretty fence sitty and bad, and my gut read it as scum.

Yep, I must be scum! I'd be the best D1 Lynch!

[shaddowez]

Vedith, who are your scumreads? Why ask people to move from the larger, yet still slow moving, wagon onto a smaller wagon?

Because NJAC is town.
I'm not going to promote his wagon now, am I?

I meant Sora over light. NJAC wasn't part of my question

[shaddowez]

Neutral/Hard to read: Kyndy, Hebee

What changed your kyndy town read to neutral/hard to read?
If Hebee is hard to read, why is 396 the only time you mention them, instead of interacting and trying to form reads?

[shaddowez]

I am now first in pagetops!

Which obvs makes you scum! (or an FA alt....)

[shaddowez]

Ouch!

UNVOTE:

Will have to reread - tracker is a pretty easy claim for scum to fake, though.

[shaddowez]

Vedith, results?

[shaddowez]

I also checked Kyndy. Not a goon.

So just to be 100% sure.
This is you, claiming you have a Not-a-goon result on kyndy, correct?

'Cause this is what I have to say to that:
VOTE: Vedith.

Mind explaining that? Even if you think kyndy is scum, she may be a PR. Why is a goon clear an auto-vote on Vedith?

I'm tending to think lycan is town, but the NK leads to a whole lot of WIFOM I'm not comfortable with. In the meantime, Heebee is definitely the scummiest player right now, and until they do something to change my mind that's where I want my vote.

VOTE: Heebee

[shaddowez]

Highhopes is insinuating he roleblocked Vedith (why pick Vedith?) and vedith claiming that Kyndy is Not a Goon means he's lying about being a goon cop. He should have gotten *No result* and knew he'd been roleblocked.

Which is pretty damning if true.

it's also I assume why he asks clearly:

This is you,

claiming you have a Not-a-goon result

on kyndy, correct?

That makes sense, I suppose. I'm not a fan of the question yet immediate vote, personally.

But it could be a scum play as they would be in the best position to know how many prs and knew his claim was safe.

A lot of ifs, but most of them in scum hands.

either way one of them is lying and needs a lynching

Even with scum choosing no roles, town still has two PRs so any PR claim by scum is a gambit, especially before any claims whatsoever.

Unless I'm meant to apply first rule of Vedith and assume he was so useless he misread his night report?

And highhopes full claim please or retract the challenge, I dont want someone to counter claim based on my reading of those posts unless you are 100% confirming the scenario we are in.

edit: Welcome Ironstove!

The bolded line comes across as coaching - if you believe HighHopes, why would you put a line in there that could suggest a backpedal for Vedith?

Questioning my reads now.
UNVOTE:

[shaddowez]

QH is bad though not even necessarily AI for KTS (it's pretty terrible if you can say that about someone...).

Can I get an abbreviation translation please

@bastion's post if this is truly the situation we should lynch vedith first.

Guesses:
QH - Quick Hammer
AI - Alignment Indicative
KTS - KillTheStory (One of the Hydra heads)

[shaddowez]

Vedith

- In 222 you list Kyndy as a town read, and then don't mention her again until your D2 result. Why choose her instead of one of your scum reads?

[shaddowez]

Vedith

- In 222 you list Kyndy as a town read, and then don't mention her again until your D2 result. Why choose her instead of one of your scum reads?

I already said why when I said my result.

That doesn't explain why you didn't check one of your stronger scum reads instead. Your explanation also makes no sense - "I thought she was town, but I checked her to make sure she's not a goon, which doesn't mean she's town, but I think she's town". You're backpedaling, and it's not working out for you.

FOS: Vedith

.

Consider this L-1. I don't want the day to end quite yet by a derp/quickhammer, but there's no real reason to put him at L-1 since we're not exactly going to get a claim.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Hebee

[shaddowez]

UNVOTE: - You're right, I didn't count. A traitor counts as scum for wincon, so bringing it down to 6 players with 3 scum would result in a lose.

[shaddowez]

So, we know town has at least 3 PRs, so scum took at least 1 of their roles. We can be fairly certain they didn't take the JOAT, because unless they blew their strongman use on N1, they wouldn't have bothered killing HH and left that to WIFOM.

I say we popcorn mass claim today. Thoughts?

[shaddowez]

So, we know town has at least 3 PRs, so scum took at least 1 of their roles. We can be fairly certain they didn't take the JOAT, because unless they blew their strongman use on N1, they wouldn't have bothered killing HH and left that to WIFOM.

I say we popcorn mass claim today. Thoughts?

4 prs. (Innocent child, tracker, goon cop, roleblocker) so they took at least 2 upgrades.

I guess I'm ok with a popcorn mass claim

I assume you want to have Hebee start. I'm ok with that.

Crap, I forgot about light (Sorry!!!).

Actually, I think I want kyndy to start. Sadly, this plan would've worked much better with less of our PRs gone, but it's really the only chance we've got at this point.

[shaddowez]

We can either mass claim now or scum hunt and no lynch, hope that tracker gets a hit if he doesn't have a report today. Today it's mylo, and tomorrow it would be lylo, either way a mislynch will lose us the game, and I'd prefer to thin out the herd and give tracker another shot to tag mafia if he doesn't have a report today.

Tracker was lynched D1.

[shaddowez]

So, if lycan is town this is terrible townplay on my part, but then again since I'm conftown I feel it's a little safer throwing this out there.

There is no way lycan is Vig. Assume he was, and let's look at N1. There was only NK, so here are the possibilities:

1) He was roleblocked. We know we had a town RB, but they admitted to blocking Vedith on N1. Didn't happen.
2) He didn't shoot. In 651 and 653 he talks about not using his power N2, but doesn't mention N1. That makes this scenario unlikely.
3) He hit a BP. Since the only BP in the game is the traitor, that makes confscum. Regardless of how quick D2 went, he should have claimed, or at this point claimed toDay.

That means he

could

be the bodyguard, but any PR claim at this point is a kill magnet. If I'm doing the numbers right, here's where we're at:

D3: 8 living players, MYLO. No lynch is the safest choice.
D2: 7 living players, LYLO. If I'm alive, we have literally a 50/50 shot of hitting scum. If I'm dead, scum have the advantage. Basically, if we no lynch today and lycan is alive tomorrow, lynch lycan with fire.

[shaddowez]

Poking my head in, forgot to announce weekend v/la

[shaddowez]

genji my man, can you tell me who you think is scum?

I'm interested in this as well.

If we don't no lynch today, I'm willing to vote here or kyndy for the day.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: No Lynch

I really think this is the best option. It gives scum a free kill, but should give us some more info. If both lycan and I are alive tomorrow, lycan is scum. If not, we've narrowed our pool.

[shaddowez]

kyndy,

do you still want a superbowl lynch today? from your pov, you townread genji

and he's counterclaimed me

. shouldn't i be your lynch?

I clearly missed something here?

Seconding this....

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- I will be V/LA through Tuesday 9/5 for the long weekend.