Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)


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Post Post #825 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:02 am

Post by Genji »

In post 799, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 743, ironstove wrote:Rask, can you please build a quick case on heebee's posts and why he's scum? I did two ISOs prior to heebee and I'm not really seeing anything particularly scummy, he still seems like lazy bad-town who voted without reading the thread which was further validated by him going AFK and replaced.

I'm not convinced he's scum and I don't think doing another ISO on him is going to change that without someone else's POV.
Genji's scum because a team without him is either literally impossible or has done crazy distancing. I've went over the old slot a bit before so you can check that. The slot itself is worse now because they're almost the assumed lynch but they're not really pushing anything, I'm not really seeing the desperation that would be appropriate for their position.
I'm thinking of why someone replaces into this situation in mylo to do nothing and I think it's way more likely from scum who'll get bussed and still has a wincon after death; the urgency of that situation versus being town and getting voted in mylo is pretty night and day.

Interesting thing is why he gives bowl that consideration and doesn't want to vote there after scumreading him. I guess if it was genji/bowl bussing each other this would be like a subversion of that but I still think bowl's more likely town, especially while genji/kyndy exists as a thing. Kyndy voting bowl doesn't really change the either-or team dynamic there assuming you ARE town.
Can you go into this anymore? I am slightly confused on the first part with the "crazy distancing" because, from my pov I haven't seen any amazing distancing happening when I read the game. So I am wondering who you think is creating this distance and with who.

I am also curious why you think I should have a strong read alternate to myself at this moment, when I haven't determined who is a strong scum. Though at the moment I believe you or superbowl are extremely likely to be scum since you are both voting me and I am not dead yet.
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Post Post #826 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:03 am

Post by Genji »

There is about 4 people softing Kyndy into their supposed scum team, but each one isn't pushing for that lynch.
I highly think they are scum being soft bussed by a few people here. Considering the slot is mostly been absent from this game day.
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Post Post #827 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:26 am

Post by lilith2013 »

Votecount 3.006

Not_Mafia replaces ironstove. Thank you!


superbowl9 [1]
kyndy101
Genji [2]
Raskolnikov, superbowl9
Not Voting [5]
Lycanfire, Genji, shaddowez, Sir Bastion, ironstove

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-08 11:15:00)
pagetop count: Lilith 9 | ironstove 4 | Vedith 4 | light_ganski 3 | shaddowez 2 | kyndy101 2 | HighHopes 2 | NJAC 2 | Genji 1 | Raskolnikov 1 | superbowl9 1 | Sir Bastion 1 | Hebee Inc 1
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Post Post #828 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:49 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

Hi everyone VOTE: Genji
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #829 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:06 am

Post by Genji »

Ummm no.
Just no.
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Post Post #830 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:12 am

Post by Genji »

In post 828, Not_Mafia wrote:Hi everyone VOTE: Genji
I don't know if you realize this, but the game is in MYLO, we can't afford a throw way lynch.
I am positive you haven't read the game, so please unvote.
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Post Post #831 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:32 am

Post by shaddowez »

VOTE: No Lynch

I really think this is the best option. It gives scum a free kill, but should give us some more info. If both lycan and I are alive tomorrow, lycan is scum. If not, we've narrowed our pool.
V/LA on Weekends
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Post Post #832 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:17 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

UNVOTE:
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #833 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:43 am

Post by Lycanfire »

Hi not_mafia. I've read some games of yours. Nice to play with you.

That's a great vote! I like it a lot.

--
In post 831, shaddowez wrote:VOTE: No Lynch

I really think this is the best option. It gives scum a free kill, but should give us some more info. If both lycan and I are alive tomorrow, lycan is scum. If not, we've narrowed our pool.
Okay I was willing to bluff here, but my softclaim's usefulness just expired. I'm a bodyguard, and I've already guessed scum have day talk, recruit, and joat. If we no lynch, I think it's almost certain that you will die. There won't be any PoE. Voting no lynch is the same as declaring intent on me at this point.

I'm nearly entirely sure that the ironstove/NM slot is scum. There was no town motive in how he danced around no lynch. Had he cased it as being a PoE kill I would have claimed. Instead he presented the situation like he was calling my bluff. In my draft post I was mulling claiming any way because I felt my last post failed to continue any bluff in any case. If it could go to night with a scum lynch and doubt about my role, I would have been the NK and I would have been happy to leave the game to yourself and Rask.

Not only was I worried about a joat, but scum could shoot someone besides you or myself. I didn't think a PoE kill like this would help us because it would just mean Rask would die, imo.

I don't understand the worries about my slot. My refusal to hardclaim gave us the following tells:

1) superbowl fails to account for my two scenarios above #702
2) rask misunderstands normalcy rules and believes joat can double kill on bodyguard protection #732
3) bastion believes i flaked n1 rather than having shot light_ganski with scum (forgot the post number but i have this written down for some reason and i can't seem to find it, maybe rask said it)
4) ironstove goes from considering scumteams without me to asking for a no lynch, to asking for me to claim. when i say this is claiming scum he claims it's scumhunting. the problem with that is that he did not bring up PoE, and supposedly while not bringing up a joat he said this:
In post 774, ironstove wrote:Actually, I'm almost certain that the mafia will kill shadows.... LMFAO, I went over this theory once in my head already. What a waste of time
nor did he scumhunt. at best his posts were a reaction test. i cannot believe his posts were a reaction test because all he did was insult me, insult whether i read the thread (i mentioned i was 10 minutes late for work and didn't expect the game to continue in my absence), then questioned whether i considered his slot's interactions with hebee and superbowl, which i did extensively in #651... going for superbowl because i told him to bus doesn't mean i should reconsider any interactions. beyond that he asked bastion if he was scum again which is a pointless reaction test at day 3.

in any case that's why voting no lynch was claiming scum. if the town wanted me to claim, rask and shadow could have declared intent to l3 and i would have done it. shadow voting no lynch is basically the same thing.



tl;dr genji is scum because i'm town. if we no lynch there's a 95-5 chance that you will die tonight and i'll be mislynched tomorrow.

--

as for that post analysis it will come tonight i've been working late all week... and working on my breaks... and staying late... and falling asleep instantly when i get back. i have tomorrow off so i'll make coffee when i get back. promise.
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Post Post #834 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:01 am

Post by Sir Bastion »

So confirm for me

Night 1

you opted to protect Vedith or Shaddowez because you thought Light was lying about being a pr?
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nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #835 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:13 am

Post by Lycanfire »

Shadow. My reasoning was that I didn't have proof for either Vedith or Light.
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Post Post #836 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

In post 835, Lycanfire wrote:Shadow. My reasoning was that I didn't have proof for either Vedith or Light.

Damn it...

And I had such a good feeling about you.


I dont get dismissing both prs.

I mean firstly I dont get why you didnt protect Light, even if you didnt believe his claim you should have still protected him, he claimed the most powerful role in the game

Vedith even said as much when he claimed here

If he was scum and you both survived night 1 then you'd have a genuine case to push him on.

If he was town and you died, you still saved the most powerful pr in the game.

I dont get why you didnt apply that logic

*But*

I did believe you made this mistake, based on how you softclaimed and crumbed out the mistake, I believed you made the choice of not protecting Light because you didnt believe his claim and you showed that in your day 1 posts, you were scumreading light for most of the day but you showed you had some confidence in Vedith. You put him in your town reads, you showed no issue with his posts and you even approved of his posts at one point.

So why opt to protect Shaddowez over Vedith?

Both in terms of post content (no offencer Shaddowez) and his pr ability Vedith was the better choice.

If Light was lying like i thought you believed, vedith would have been the obvious target for scum. Both a pr that could potential catch one or more of them and a very active day player.


So putting him and light on the same level as simply not having *proof*

That feels off, wrong. almost neutered. As if their actions and even their claimed roles were irrelevant


Pity I was really sure of you from earlier.


Also on a side note your JOAT reasoning is flawed.

It makes a critical assumption of the scum team that none of us can possible know

That they still have their
One shot
ability

For that to happen scum would have needed to know that you were the bodyguard before the end of day 1 and that you wouldnt have protected Light. Very unlikely but lets pretend that was possible.

Then even knowing all that on night 2 they would have had to know that you were going to flake completely from the game for the night. That's pretty impossible unless you announced somewhere else in the forum that you were not going to be around in any form on the forum.



So there is a lot of ground to argue that scum have already used their roleblocker bypass JOAT ability, especially after day 2's theatrics where HH showed himself to be a bit of a wildcard with his choices, he might have picked his highest town read or randomly on night 2 and the joat ability guaranteed that scum could kill him, I cant see them not using it to ensure HH was out.

So No lynch is still an option if there is a genuine concern over your position, it wasnt for me, but now I'm slightly disappointed in your reasoning for night 1 actions. If you cant convince me that there is a genuine thought process behind those actions it may be better that we no lynch and pick things up.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #837 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:37 pm

Post by Genji »

VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.
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Post Post #838 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:38 pm

Post by Genji »

In post 833, Lycanfire wrote:Hi not_mafia. I've read some games of yours. Nice to play with you.

That's a great vote! I like it a lot.
Maybe its just me, but I don't remember you ever pointing out a strong case on me nor representing thoughts that I was very likely scum. So this confidence on a vote in a MYLO is weird to rea.d
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Post Post #839 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:01 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

In post 837, Genji wrote:VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

so you're in favour of ending the the day a week early?

Why?
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #840 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:32 pm

Post by kyndy101 »

*A wild Kyndy appears!*
In post 839, Sir Bastion wrote:
In post 837, Genji wrote:VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

so you're in favour of ending the the day a week early?

Why?
Didn't you just say (Bastion) that no lynching was the best option? I think it is very acceptable that Genji believed that you meant a no lunch /now/

Also UNVOTE: for now
I need to get stuff together; so sorry guys

Spoiler: Long post
Sir Bastion wrote:
In post 835, Lycanfire wrote:Shadow. My reasoning was that I didn't have proof for either Vedith or Light.

Damn it...

And I had such a good feeling about you.


I dont get dismissing both prs.

I mean firstly I dont get why you didnt protect Light, even if you didnt believe his claim you should have still protected him, he claimed the most powerful role in the game

Vedith even said as much when he claimed here

If he was scum and you both survived night 1 then you'd have a genuine case to push him on.

If he was town and you died, you still saved the most powerful pr in the game.

I dont get why you didnt apply that logic

*But*

I did believe you made this mistake, based on how you softclaimed and crumbed out the mistake, I believed you made the choice of not protecting Light because you didnt believe his claim and you showed that in your day 1 posts, you were scumreading light for most of the day but you showed you had some confidence in Vedith. You put him in your town reads, you showed no issue with his posts and you even approved of his posts at one point.

So why opt to protect Shaddowez over Vedith?

Both in terms of post content (no offencer Shaddowez) and his pr ability Vedith was the better choice.

If Light was lying like i thought you believed, vedith would have been the obvious target for scum. Both a pr that could potential catch one or more of them and a very active day player.


So putting him and light on the same level as simply not having *proof*

That feels off, wrong. almost neutered. As if their actions and even their claimed roles were irrelevant


Pity I was really sure of you from earlier.


Also on a side note your JOAT reasoning is flawed.

It makes a critical assumption of the scum team that none of us can possible know

That they still have their
One shot
ability

For that to happen scum would have needed to know that you were the bodyguard before the end of day 1 and that you wouldnt have protected Light. Very unlikely but lets pretend that was possible.

Then even knowing all that on night 2 they would have had to know that you were going to flake completely from the game for the night. That's pretty impossible unless you announced somewhere else in the forum that you were not going to be around in any form on the forum.



So there is a lot of ground to argue that scum have already used their roleblocker bypass JOAT ability, especially after day 2's theatrics where HH showed himself to be a bit of a wildcard with his choices, he might have picked his highest town read or randomly on night 2 and the joat ability guaranteed that scum could kill him, I cant see them not using it to ensure HH was out.

So No lynch is still an option if there is a genuine concern over your position, it wasnt for me, but now I'm slightly disappointed in your reasoning for night 1 actions. If you cant convince me that there is a genuine thought process behind those actions it may be better that we no lynch and pick things up.

So, Bastion, are you saying that you don't believe Genji's claim unless Genji states a more logical train of thought for what happened night 1 and 2? Cause sometimes, people make mistakes in my view. I don't know, you also kinda contradicted yourself in the middle with saying you believe people can make mistakes but also that he needs to more logically explain himself?


Genji wrote:VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.
Can you explain this please?
Not_Mafia wrote:Hi everyone VOTE: Genji
Hi NM! Long time no see ;P
I am quite ashamed of iron's behavior; mafiascum players just shouldn't play like that, and I skimmed over most of those posts because they were just angry fluff. I don't know why he was wriggling so much though.
Genji wrote:There is about 4 people softing Kyndy into their supposed scum team, but each one isn't pushing for that lynch.
I highly think they are scum being soft bussed by a few people here. Considering the slot is mostly been absent from this game day.
This is a valid point; if you feel someone is scum, why not just vote them / build a case and vote? :?
"ARANEA: No! I will not "clam down." Clamming is not something you can do, unless you do it UP, or you are literally retrieving clams from a 8ed of soft oceanic soil"
"TEREZI: 1T 1S L1K3 TH3 L3G1SL4C3R4TORS H4NDBOOK S4YS
TEREZI: THOS3 WHO 4R3 CUT FROM TH3 S4M3 CLOTH
TEREZI: 4R3 F1T TO SW1NG FROM TH3 S4M3 ROP3!"
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Post Post #841 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:15 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

Didn't you just say (Bastion) that no lynching was the best option? I think it is very acceptable that Genji believed that you meant a no lunch /now/
I said it was an option

not the best

and I also meant at the end of the day.

Voting for no lynch now means you want to end today now.

SO why now?

Voting no lynch does not put the game in twilight til the clock runs down (unless they changed that?) it ends the day. Do we want to end today now?


So, Bastion, are you saying that you don't believe Genji's claim unless Genji states a more logical train of thought for what happened night 1 and 2? Cause sometimes, people make mistakes in my view. I don't know, you also kinda contradicted yourself in the middle with saying you believe people can make mistakes but also that he needs to more logically explain himself?
I think you meant Lycan...

Dont believe is a bit strong, less trusting is something I'm more comfortable with, perhaps I felt too confident in my read of his earlier post. I guess the core issue is simply I can see a genuine mistake being made in reading another player as scummy so not believing their claim. We already saw it today with HH vs Vedith. And when I re read day 1 I can see this with Lycan and Light, he made it very clear he saw light as scum so I'm surprised his reasoning for his night action carries none of the same thoughts and am now unsure and less trusting, add on the flawed JOAT fear and there you go.
Hi NM! Long time no see ;P
I am quite ashamed of iron's behavior; mafiascum players just shouldn't play like that, and I skimmed over most of those posts because they were just angry fluff. I don't know why he was wriggling so much though.
I hate you
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #842 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:41 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

In post 839, Sir Bastion wrote:
In post 837, Genji wrote:VOTE: No Lynch

This is best option right now.

so you're in favour of ending the the day a week early?

Why?
Ew
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #843 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:41 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

Hi Kyndy
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #844 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:32 am

Post by Lycanfire »

to reiterate posts i've previously made: bulletproof and rolecop are negative utility roles. bulletproof is good against vigs, and while rolecop increases in power as you add on more powers, it's pretty plainly directed at finding a tracker, the best/easiest to play PR town can roll. choosing either gives town
another
PR, so if they didn't have a vig/tracker before hand, they'll probably roll one in addition to what they started with. i would not choose either of these powers. joat is multipurpose.

since i'm the fifth PR i know scum took 3 powers, their maximum. i'm guessing they took recruit, daytalk, and joat.

it's entirely possible that scum were saving joat to endgame. if so, shadow will die tonight.

bastion's making some sense that if scum were not concerned with a bodyguard redirect n1 (they knew at end of day that two of the following were in the game: roleblock, vigilante, bodyguard) they had twice the number of reasons n2 after highhopes claimed, as the remaining PRs could have been rb, bg. i was too busy thinking about how joat would interact with my role that i completely ignored highhopes' roleblock (hey i wasn't there for the whole day and power read that headache). i suppose there's a chance he could have hit right and that it ended up not mattering due to strongman, but we won't know, and he probably tried blocking me if anything going by his last posts. if i can come to that conclusion why couldn't scum? or bastion, really, i mean he's the one trying to figure out how a joat would interact with RB, not me.

but fmpov i cannot accept any result today other than genji's lynch. the threat of joat is still a real one and suggesting otherwise makes me wonder why you don't want genji's head to roll.

--

superbowl

#725 i thought this was bad because voting hebee after day 1 was perfectly fine... look at the njac wagon. not only did it get pushed over hebee, but hebee was on that with him. if hebee was a day 1 scumread of his how did that happen? and how does he know at this point that hebee is inactive? pt? if "not answering questions" is an answer it just proves that he doesn't want to scumhunt. placing a vote after day and repeating yourself is a normal thing to do when you press your reads. it's when you feel like doing it more than once in a day that you should consider other leads before you do that. imo justification to go after highhopes over hebee doesn't actually work.
#759 prob shouldn't shit talk njac and act like his vote was any good when njac was obvtown and led to a lot of discussion, had the matter of his lynch buried until it was suddenly pushed through instead of hebee.

--

genji

#740 of course scum!superbowl can't put me in his top 3 unless he wanted me to make a shit ton of noise for the rest of the game. beyond that it looks like a buspost, because he's really grasping at straws here, and if they're team he knows he should be able to make
some
argument against scum, right? so i'm going to go with that stroke my ego for having caused it. ironstove was probably screaming genji town over this post :roll: don't know how he thought he was going to convince us of that considering he said to lynch genji a few posts later.
#754 imnotsurvivalistimnotsurvivalistimnotsurvivalistimnotsurvivalist
#755 accuses superbowl of being survivalist when besides for ironstove and himself i think the only question for everyone was who we were going to lynch after genji... well i was also pretending that i'd shoot a scumfucker tonight to pull NK aggro/ encourage bussing n shit. :mrgreen:
#756 scumreads superbowl save for day 1... i managed to dig up a ton of crap to throw at superbowl. i mean fuck, the guy killed town day 1 :lol: it's not like nothing exists to scumread him with even if you want to ignore super/sora/hebee interactions due to obvious implications.
#823 ya'll gotta bus harder that's why
#824 looked fuckin' amazing. superbowl is a truck driver in a room full of shortbus drivers.
#825 only post of his that makes sense
#829-830 yes! yes! yes! looks hilarious how he has to remind NM that it's mylo when NM knows better than this. "I am positive you haven't read the game, so please unvote." sounds like the only thread NM didn't read was the pt :P :P not very subtle
#837 :left: :left: :left:
#828 cased your predecessor

--

ironstove

#769 i think i missed him scumslipping here lol :left:
#773 said bastion's PoE of scumteams were bad for some reason, unvoted super and voted no lynch when super has zero risk of being lynched.
#774 pr much admits joat exists
#786 most convincing post to me that he wasn't trying to figure out the game, considering he was ignoring the most content heavy post i've made all game to say something like this.
#802 his town read becomes suddenly better than super or no lynch because his "townread" rask (who townreads him) says so.
#817 then why even sheep rask if he isn't going to be confident in his reads? oh never mind, it's because he's retracting his townread on her. regression is just progress in the opposite direction.
#818 ofc he can't say anything like hebee's iso is obv scummy because it has a pretty damning interaction with his predecessor he can't bullshit his way out of by claiming they played together before or something like that.


covered the rest quite well it was mostly him putting together a scumteam then asking for no lynch knowing i'd have to claim or tell him to fuck off. when i chose the latter he decided to have a fit about it and started talking about how he thought scum wouldn't take a third power :roll: felt like he was trying too hard to say something contradictory to what i know scum to know. if he thought i was scum all along and scum read me, then decided to suggest no lynch, asked me to claim and said third scum power is dumb i wouldn't suspect it. it feels like a forced townslip because he went from not suspecting me, pressuring me at all to suspecting me.

NM

#828 greatest post in this thread
#832 worst post in this thread
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Post Post #845 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:32 am

Post by Lycanfire »

kyndy,

do you still want a superbowl lynch today? from your pov, you townread genji and he's counterclaimed me. shouldn't i be your lynch?
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Post Post #846 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:41 am

Post by Sir Bastion »

In post 845, Lycanfire wrote:kyndy,

do you still want a superbowl lynch today? from your pov, you townread genji
and he's counterclaimed me
. shouldn't i be your lynch?

I clearly missed something here?
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #847 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:11 am

Post by shaddowez »

In post 846, Sir Bastion wrote:
In post 845, Lycanfire wrote:kyndy,

do you still want a superbowl lynch today? from your pov, you townread genji
and he's counterclaimed me
. shouldn't i be your lynch?

I clearly missed something here?
Seconding this....
V/LA on Weekends
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Post Post #848 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:33 am

Post by Lycanfire »

genji/bastion/kyndy thoughts
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Post Post #849 (ISO) » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:35 am

Post by Lycanfire »

:mrgreen:

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