Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mimikyu

[Gamma Emerald]

Impeccable reasoning Blackstar. I'll sheep that hard.
VOTE: umlaut
Heads up I don't scumhunt because it's stupid and leads to basically random lynches. I'm warming to town read into PoE but that could be a symptom of positivity bias that suggests because when I town read someone I am statistically likely to be right, I end up believing my townreads are accurate.

Heeeey Frieeeeeeeend
I see you're still at it here. Although I did notice you added the part about PoE. Hm.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes, but I would like to know why he decided to use towntells now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Aristo no. This is his normal.

[Gamma Emerald]

WTF He was in my first game here. Judging by the fact he added the PoE bit, I'm not going to just peg him as the same as before. I attacked him in that game because I thought it was an excuse to avoid doing the work town should do.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aristo: He was not town, but he missed an important part of his D1 promise, AND I'm not going to peg him as scum because the tone seems different this time.
Link in a bit.

[Gamma Emerald]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67979
This is the game. It's not officially done, but the scum team requested an early finish, so it's as good as done. Skold was scum, and the problem that occurred around this was that he did not scumhunt later in the game. Given that this is multiball, I can safely say THAT'S not a problem I see occurring here.
PEdit: All my attempts at getting an avatar have failed due to size limitations. I someone could find a Mega Rayquaza that fits, that would be great.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is your number 1 target Zach?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll kick this off.
1: I like town and mafia for about the same reason. As Mafia, I get to plot and plan, but as town I don't. While I like not having to worry about my actions too much as town, I also like trying to pull off crazy wins as scum.
2: I really like Role Cops for some reason.
3: I think the town has to be really careful, unless I don't get the setup and it selects the same row or column on each, then we just have to deal with two nightkills and less clear potential.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you want to add to the current list do it like this
#: Your question goes here
in a separate post.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you want to add to the current list do it like this
#: Your question goes here
in a separate post.

"Please and thank you" says Gemerald.

Also, can I call you Gemerald?

I prefer Gamma.

[Gamma Emerald]

4: I don't like Drivers. They mess up two peoples actions at once.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean that if the setup is forced to select the same row or column on both grids, we don't have to worry too much about fakeclaims and such, we only have to deal with more nightkills and the lack of full clears. Basically, the simpler our situation is, the better.

[Gamma Emerald]

About scum hunting: one thing we need to consider is team hunting. With two teams, I feel this is very important.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

That first point: anyone who says "don't trust me even though I'm town telling" is either ballsy scum or town.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma

Is your name Blackstar?

I felt I needed to answer anyway. Sorry for having my own opinion.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aubrey: have you actually answered 3 yet? Also, if you like, you can pose a question for the final request slot.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

I gave everyone a chance: I didn't open with RQS.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aubrey: if you like the question answer it or quote your answer.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thank you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, Skold submitted a good question. The revised list is:
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: What role do you not like?
5: What strategies do you feel are way too common?
I've already answered all but 5. I believe that busing has grown way out of hand. In my first game of forum mafia ever, my scumteam bussed when there was the ability to force no-lynch by lack of majority.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

I don't know what you do, but I generally don't leave discussions unfinished if they're... unfinished, especially when it's a discussion I started. That might be the worst vote ever.

The topic should have been dropped pages ago, yet you kept it going. Either you're dumb or you're mafia.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's not how anything works, and you don't decide when something starts or stops.

I may not decide, but you should have decided to let it go.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't see why you need to ask for my permission. Is there a reason though?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really care. It's just one vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think it will, and even if it did, I wouldn't really care.

[Gamma Emerald]

No. I'm interested. Just don't care.

[Gamma Emerald]

If there was a reason, I'd defend myself. But there isn't really a reason, so I just don't really care because there's probably not going to be any traction here.

[Gamma Emerald]

What don't you like about them? 53 and 55 were me trying to get everyone involved, so I don't see why those would be a problem.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, what about 44 and 207?

[Gamma Emerald]

44 was me proving Skold wasn't behaving strangely. In 87, I had my own thoughts and wanted to express them. 207 was me calling out Zach for derailing the discussion. I'm fine with discussion, but when it is only about one topic, we don't really get anywhere.

[Gamma Emerald]

Multiple discussions can go on at once. If you truly felt we weren't doing anything productive, why did you not opt to start a new discussion you preferred more and thought would produce more information instead of pissing around, voting me and proceeding to do

nothing

after that?

I didn't really have anything else I could think of. But now, I have something.
What do you think of MeowMix's questions before his vote?

[Gamma Emerald]

It is a general question, I just included it in that post.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who spoke of strength?

You said flatly "He's scum." That means you think I'm probably scum, though you seem pretty uninterested in making this case. See 120 where you're just like "read my other posts" when Aubrey asks you to explain your read.

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

What I want everyone to answer is:
Do you find MeowMix's asking about my opinion on voting me alignment indicative?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, it's too much for me to catch up on. Whose the scummiest person and why? Go!

If you can't catch up, replace out.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know, Zach has really changed his tune, or at least it feels like it.
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

Great now someone else is being passive aggressive. To be fair, MeowMix did add to that read.

[Gamma Emerald]

I just came up with an idea. We should start searching for pairs of people who are likely

not

teams.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay.
Zach=/=BlackStar: they went at it for like 5 pages, I don't think they're a scum team.
MeowMix=/=Mimikyu: No scum would attack the other like that.

[Gamma Emerald]

I was nonchalant because you voted really weirdly. Asking for my permission? REALLY? You don't need PERMISSION to vote, JUST DO IT!

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm sorry, but I don't think my posting is fluff. My RQS was me trying to get everyone involved and interacting, and that comment was me explaining my nonchalantness. He gave no indication why he was voting me and thought he needed permission. You know, I think the permission bit is scum trying way too hard to not appear scummy. I've been hesitant on reaching a conclusion on that, but having to explain my response to it for the thousandth time pushed me off the fence.
VOTE: MeowMix

[Gamma Emerald]

I just said so in the post. I realized his asking before voting was extremely suspicious, where before it was a small ping.
PEdit: Would you like me to quote something you said that will make you want to retract that or will you just do it now?

[Gamma Emerald]

That second line, yes. I remember you saying MeowMix was your mortal enemy.

[Gamma Emerald]

You said so.

[Gamma Emerald]

How is that town motivated? Who asks for permission before voting? it seems like apologetic/hesitant scum to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda figured it was a reaction test, but I didn't know what kind of reaction he wanted. If he put his reasoning up front, I would have defended myself from the start, but instead he decided to (figuratively) hand me a shovel, not tell me what to do with it, and let me dig my own grave.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, maybe, but instead of giving a guy a chance, he put me in even deeper.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, maybe, but instead of giving a guy a chance, he put me in even deeper.

What do you mean?

I mean instead of a select few doubting me, I have a bunc of people completely distrusting me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Aubrey, of course I want to appear townie, the only roles that would ever want to get lynched are Oracle and Jester.

[Gamma Emerald]

OMGUS is voting someone puely because they're voting for you. I find your methods scummy, MeowMix.

[Gamma Emerald]

Great job guys. I tried to be active in the discussion, and this is what happens. I guess I'll just copy my EpicMafia habits and lurk all the time. Thanks for teaching me this valuable lesson.

[Gamma Emerald]

"Frustrated lynchbait" is exactly how I feel right now.

[Gamma Emerald]

But that is how I identify as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Jester, don't incriminate one of your townreads.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure, what do you need?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hold at bay, shrug it off. It's all the same. Jester makes some far fetched post. Zach responds in a negative manner towards it. Jester kinda laughs it off without pushing the issue any further. As I said, it was a feeling of X. Call it what you will.

Do the both of you hold him in a null position? or has he galavanted his way into your hearts as a townie?

Who does that question refer to?

[Gamma Emerald]

I meant "who were they asking about".

[Gamma Emerald]

There is a difference between deliberate lurking (what Gamma claimed he would be doing) which is definitely scummy, and being more inactive in Real Life than usual, which is what I am, as I do not control exactly when my Real Life gets busy.

I'm not always like this. However, I was very often inactive during my overgaming period, in which I ended up lurking in the majority of my games. This is probably why you think that I always lurk.

Gamma said that he will be inactive because expressing his opinion gets him scumread. I said that I will be inactive because Real Life comes first. This is the difference.

Also, I voted Gamma both for saying he will lurk and saying he was lynchbait.

BTD6, it was a JOKE. Have a sense of humor, will ya?

[Gamma Emerald]

But from an inside-Gamma's-head perspective, contributing more would cause him to be mislynched, thus hindering the scumhunt, and people rarely listen to the reads of the mislynched anyway.

I never knew that last part. TIL, I guess.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what was a joke? Saying you are lynchbait, saying you will lurk, or both?

Saying I will lurk.

[Gamma Emerald]

About trusting the mislynched: in my first game, we mislynched two people who scum read this one person, and the town believed this until he refused to quickhammer in lylo.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know, now that I think about it, Skold got it all wrong. In multiball, it's probably LESS important to townblock, due to the extra motivations of the scumteams.

[Gamma Emerald]

A townblock is a group of people you think are town. I'll get to work on that reads list.
@Dunn: this is multiball.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, I'm really starting to distrust Dunn.
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, I'm really starting to distrust Dunn.
VOTE: Dunnstral

I don't trust you. You're just sheeping every wagon that forms.

Why'd you unvote, then?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, I'm really starting to distrust Dunn.
VOTE: Dunnstral

why?

Because he's only really thinking in one direction. As I said before, you need to play in multiple directions, and I'll add that it's even more important in multiball.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have Aubrey and Gamma down as hard defending BTD6

I'm not defending him: I'm attacking you. I have BTD as null.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have nothing to say.

[Gamma Emerald]

BTD, do you have anything else to say about your scumreads? I want you to actually say why, not just say "same as x".

[Gamma Emerald]

What thing?

[Gamma Emerald]

I am actually asking for something, though. You guys were just bickering about whether it was okay to pressure him.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well can you quote it then?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay saw it. I don't really know what to think. I wish he linked Zach's reason, though.
PEdit: That last post is about me, but he didn't say he scumreads me. What?

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is he accusing of doing that though?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay. I personally prefer a summary of why you vote someone, even if you are basically sheeping someone, that way your perspective is visible.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, I'll get those reads later, but I'd like to address my thoughts on MeowMix.
After re-ISOing him, I noticed he expressed suspicion of my RQS. This makes me less distrustful of his "what would you say if I voted you" post.
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

I only reread a few ISOs, but from what I gathered, I must say that Umlaut is my strongest scumread, while Zach or Something is my strongest townread.
VOTE: Umlaut
Also, I realize I unvoted Dunn, not MeowMix, but I still scumread Umlaut more.

[Gamma Emerald]

Woops. I'm scumreading Umlaut because he seems rather abrasize, and I noticed he criticized BlackStar's scumread level of Aubrey, even though Umlaut asked for it.
As for my townreads, Zach is mostly gut, while Something is because he is criticizing my play without resorting to voting. I don't know why, but that feels towny to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm, that's right, scum WOULD be concerned with eliminating members of the opposite faction first, I know this because my first game was as scum in multiball. I saw the thought process firsthand.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll look over Dunn's ISO and see exactly what you speak of. Then I may revote him.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow. Dunnstral has been all over the place. He had a series of posts where he rapidly changed his vote, and his reads feel EXTREMELY inconsistent. I don't think anyone is scummier than him after reading his ISO by a long shot.
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Point out where you think they were inconsistent, and I will tell you how it changed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not who, what. I'm talking about my reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

No, I don't care what anyone else thinks, you're scum and I know it.

[Gamma Emerald]

What have you done that is "abrasive"?

[Gamma Emerald]

Great now someone else is being passive aggressive. To be fair, MeowMix did add to that read.

There we go! Finally someone sums up the game properly!

And it continues with Zach.

[Gamma Emerald]

How have I slipped into the background? Feels more like I slipped into the forefront tbh.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

QFT

[Gamma Emerald]

I was indirectly calling out MeowMix. Any attempts to whiteknight are purely coincidental.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't feel I'm getting the recognition I deserve here

I agree, we need to be on your case more than we are.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm trying.
@Aristo: what do you think of Dunnstral? You said ditto.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow you are being really dumb dude
Flaunting it in our faces makes you look scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay...

[Gamma Emerald]

I find it scummy that someone would say that. It's called LAMIST.

[Gamma Emerald]

Forgetting it was multiball is pretty much NAI.

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn't saying I found it scummy, maybe you think I was because you're scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

I find it scummy that someone would say that. It's called LAMIST.

I di drespond, Dunnstral.

[Gamma Emerald]

No, but it's a point to consider.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think LAMIST is scummy because instead of actually presenting evidence for real, they're like "oh it's all there".
A decent question to follow up is: has anyone seen town use LAMIST?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I've never seen it in action before, so I didn't know.

[Gamma Emerald]

I went off what I thought was proper. I've done this with people before, in fact I believe I did it with Skold last time I played him.

[Gamma Emerald]

We've got very little time here. I propose we all state who we find most scummy right here, right now. I'll start.

Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, nice avatar!

[Gamma Emerald]

Does anyone want me to claim, or will that change nothing?

[Gamma Emerald]

THAT'S your reason for voting me?

[Gamma Emerald]

I said that because we're close to deadline: I don't care if it froze or not, we're all over the place and need to sort ourselves out.

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe there are, but that one's garbage.

[Gamma Emerald]

It seems you are reaching for ways to incriminate me now, BlackStar.

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought it was absolutely inane. I probably would have thought that out more if I was scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait.
Skold contradicted his own play last game. That was part of how he was caught.
I don't want to suspect Yakko for this, but I kinda have to, seeing as it's the EXACT SAME ERROR he made last time.
ARGH

[Gamma Emerald]

What did I do that changed your mind?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Mod: can we get a VC?

[Gamma Emerald]

The freeze is over, since both Skold and MeowMix have been replaced.

[Gamma Emerald]

Meow was replaced by Vax, Yakko replaced Skold.

[Gamma Emerald]

I find it astonishing that I lurked for most of Zach and BlackStar's argument but I have to most posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

*the most posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

Let's get him

VOTE: Aubrey

Opportunistic vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

When did I say you were worse than btd?

Why not talk about Gamma, by the way?

Yes, I would like to see you gone, since recently (as I've pointed out) you went from voting me to gamma but went off on a mini rant to go back to it later. At this point I know you'll vote whoever has the most votes

I'm also ok with jester being lynched for being parked on me forever

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

Let's get him

VOTE: Aubrey

Opportunistic vote.

This ones better:

VOTE: Gamma

Do I even have to say what's wrong with this vote?

[Gamma Emerald]

OMGUS. That's what's wrong with it.

[Gamma Emerald]

hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

What does this mean for your read on me?

[Gamma Emerald]

hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

What does this mean for your read on me?

Never mind, I got super-ninja'ed.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Zach: You say I "jumped on my own counterwagon", when in fact

I was the one to truly start it

(I don't remember why TheJester voted him, but I was the one who started to really push it for sure.).

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that a problem?

[Gamma Emerald]

....dude, you didn't really do anything in it. I basically did all of the work. You made one small observation that I had to go back, dig up, and put relevance to it. Hell, you didn't even go after Dunn until I made a push against him! You basically forgot your observation regarding him until I reminded you of your small observation while you were desperately trying to come up with some poor scum reasoning for Umlaut since you were in the hot seat.

You're basically taking credit for something you didn't really put leg work into, in order to make you seem more proactive in the game.

The action may be right, but the motive is not. I thought I had actually contributed. Whatever.

[Gamma Emerald]

Post 483 at this point I'm basically done asking my preliminary questions to Dun, and go head on into the beginning of the push with my vote.
post 488 You vote Dun.
post 496 Your observation about Dun. (Disregard that comment about you not knowing the relevance behind your observation. Got it mixed up with another comment you made when you reminded Dunn that it is multiball.)
post 504 your defending yourself against Dun trying to tie us to BDT.
post 505 I'm going even deeper into the push, and Dun responds in 506
post 507 you respond. Like is this even suppose to be a point?
post 512 I address Zach basically playing dumb in my eyes at the time. I assume this is your intent in 507.

from there I push a bit more here and there, and conversation about other things happen. Gamma, people at this point are really starting to bring up reasons against you. After a few posts, you're finally asked to say who you'd like to lynch the most out of everybody by me in post 540. What do you do? You say Umlaut in post 542, and drop your vote on Dunn.

You don't say why you think he is the scummiest, and I ask you to explain.
You explain in post 544. You don't bring up strong points as far as i'm concerned, and I mention that following this post.

post 548 I bring back your observation about Dun to you, and go into deeper relevance about it.
post 549 It's like your excited I went into deeper relevance about your observation cause you didn't even see it in that light!? I'm totally left vexed after reading this, but whatever.
Post 551 and 552 You have to consider revoting him? Yet you say you lead the attack against him!?

From there you don't bring up anything against Dun unless you want to count post 664 While I'm pushing his butt in posts like 640 & 650

Finally I start to doubt my scum read on Dun since NOBODY is even addressing my points (Minus Blackstar who was opposed). So, I say F it and go back to voting you. Which is why I was shocked when SS mentioned having issues with Dun, but never even commenting during the pushing of Dun. During all of this, you seem to be desperately trying to fight this bandwagon on you that has been developing and gaining traction for some time.

--

So please tell me why you deserve the credit for "

Truly starting the Dunn bandwagon

"

I don't care about credit. I'm just saying I didn't "jump on my own counterwagon". I feel the counterwagon really started with BlackStar's unvote of me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well do you want me not to defend myself then?
I'll be working on a reads list. See you in a bit.

[Gamma Emerald]

Progress report: 7/12 reads done.

[Gamma Emerald]

Bad news: I am unable to use the computer my reads list is on right now, so it will have to wait. Sorry for the inconvenience.
@Vax: I'm pretty much the lynch du jour at this point.

[Gamma Emerald]

I said that thing because I didn't feel it had actually become a counterwagon at that point; everyone was pretty much off voting wherever or on me. I guess the problems came from me not specifying that.

[Gamma Emerald]

FYI: my list will probably be up late afternoon/evening today.

[Gamma Emerald]

If one scum dies, why would you look for the 1 ally hiding in everyone?

Instead of the 2 hiding together

You're just more likely to find scum and better off finding the one (also, even if you find the partner, you're making one side's pr's useless, which doesn't happen if killing 1 from each faction)

That all sounds weird but basically, if one scum flips don't even look for his partner, just kill anyone that's scummy

I disagree. You should hunt for the partner so you have one less nightkill to worry about.

[Gamma Emerald]

These are my reads. They are not strictly ordered by strength, but by order ISOed in each grouping

Spoiler: Reads

Town:

Aubrey

: He has been doing very good at scumhunting, although he’s been mostly focused on me and BTD6, so that’s something to consider.

Hi Im Yakko

: He’s been very blunt and I feel like he’s town for that. However, voting for someone before you are completely caught up is dumb.

Mimikyu

: Has been doing some

very

intense scumhunting, I feel.

BlackStar

: He’s been very confrontational, to the extent that he seems very towny.

SS

: Other than the failed attempt at pressure, I think his posts are pretty good. Has been asking some very good questions.
Null:

BTD6_maker

: I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more.

Zach

: I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one.
Scum:

MeowMix/Vaxkiller

:VaxKiller hasn’t really done anything alignment indicative, so I have to go by MeowMix, and

holy crap his ISO is bad

. Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me. I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6.

TheJester

: Has he had

no

scumreads other than Skold’s slot? Also, catch-up posts don’t really feel fresh, and that has been a sign of scum trying to avoid confrontation before, so there’s that.

Aristophanes

: Seems very passive and neutral. Do not like.

Umlaut

: Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet.

Dunnstral

: As I’ve said before, his early posting was very erratic, and he’s been very opportunistic in his later posts.

After my searching, I feel Umlaut is my strongest scumread,
VOTE: Umlaut
BTW, this was written last night, so it does not include observations from today.

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't care.

[Gamma Emerald]

Your point is...?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dunn: I wrote what I felt I saw.

[Gamma Emerald]

And the scum teams are teams of 2 so there'd only be 1 person working with him

This in response to?

[Gamma Emerald]

I could lynch Gamma but the lack of counterwagons bothers me.

I'm the counterwagon

And the scum teams are teams of 2 so there'd only be 1 person working with him

Therefore worrying about counterwagon or a lack thereof is useless.

?????
I don't understand how those are related.

[Gamma Emerald]

MULTIBALL FFS

[Gamma Emerald]

@Mod can we get a VC?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Umlaut is scum more than anyone else. I've seen deadline wagons happen.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know how many. I'd like to specify about the one I've done, but I'm not sure if it violates the ongoing games rule.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I'm most sure of Umlaut being scum, so I'm not changing unless there's no time and there's a wagon on one of my scumreads.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma

Is your name Blackstar?

I explained this in my last post, it's the need to strawman and doubtcast on Zach instead of just saying "It wasn't really a strong read, drop it."

Firstly, if everyone thinks you have a fairly strong scumread when you don't, maybe the problem is with something you wrote and not that everyone else sucks at reading. But even setting that aside, his response seeks to deflect Zach's actual statement which is that Aubrey's entrance didn't justify any sort of scumread at all,

let alone

a strong read, and that his looks like an opportunistic push on someone with a slightly unusual style.

Instead of answering that, he says Zach is falsely accusing him of going aggro on Aubrey (a much easier claim to rebut than what Zach actually said), every post Zach has made is nonsense (would you like to back that up, BlackStar?), and hints that he is arguing in bad faith. Then he says we're all stopping him from scumhunting as if the current conversation has eliminated his ability to read or write anything else.

All of this reads as if he doesn't have a real response but feels the need to respond.

VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.

(Interestingly, his reversal on Aubrey and scumread on MeowMix both came right after they said they had a problem with Gamma. It's obviously too early to seriously hunt for associations but I want to note this for future reference.)

Secondly, he's given a lot of general opinions on good and bad ways to scumhunt, and if he's scum I wouldn't be surprised if some of these "bad ways" are the ones that would point to him

or his teammate.

-----

On an off-topic note, anyone who finds Zach abrasive can't have played many games here. I had to go back to see what you were talking about.

-----

Pedit:

Gamma, why did you quote my post there? Your question has nothing to do with it really.

Also, no I don't.

Well now that I check again, I realize I only get that from one post. He has been really aggro all Day though, so my read still stands. If you want I can quote posts that seem aggro.

[Gamma Emerald]

Thought the multiquote had deactivated, whoops.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.

(Interestingly, his reversal on Aubrey and scumread on MeowMix both came right after they said they had a problem with Gamma. It's obviously too early to seriously hunt for associations but I want to note this for future reference.)

Secondly, he's given a lot of general opinions on good and bad ways to scumhunt, and if he's scum I wouldn't be surprised if some of these "bad ways" are the ones that would point to him

or his teammate.

-----

On an off-topic note, anyone who finds Zach abrasive can't have played many games here. I had to go back to see what you were talking about.

-----

Pedit:

Gamma, why did you quote my post there? Your question has nothing to do with it really.

Also, no I don't.

Flippantly attacks me here, I don't know exactly what this indicates but it feels scummy.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

You heard it here, folks. After 72 hours it's too late to bring in a new read.

Being flippant again.

Can you post a reads list, Umlaut?

Forgot about this. I'm phone posting now so this is off the cuff.

Town:

Zach, Meow, Aubrey

Null:

Jester, Dunn, Skold, Ari, SS, BTD

Scum:

Gamma, Mimikyu, Blackstar

Not part of the original case, but half of his reads are null. Having a lot of nulls is a scumtell.

[Gamma Emerald]

I also had a similar list of nulls that he had at that time as well if I remember correctly. I'm not buying that.

I may have to rethink my read on you then. Were your other reads similar to his?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, it may not be an attack, but sure is flippant. The "also, no I don't" part is what feels flippant to me.
My reads took about an hour to prepare, though most of that was ISOing. I wasn't able to post it until the next day due to not being able to use the computer it was on.

[Gamma Emerald]

They're talking about the same thing. Basically, I changed my vote from the leading wagon, Aubrey thinks that's towny because there's no reason to do that as scum, while Umlaut thinks it's scummy because if I was scum and Dunn was town, then that could earn me towncred.

[Gamma Emerald]

About Aubrey and Vax: I didn't say I townread Aubrey for focusing on me and BTD, in fact, that's a detractor from that townread.
About Aristo: tell me how I've been passive and neutral. I bet you can't, because I haven't. Remember when I flipped out on Zach for the tangent on BlackStar?
About Yakko and BlackStar: by blunt, I mean he's very frank with people, putting his feelings on the table. BlackStar's confrontationalness is different to yours due to the fact you've been tunneling.
About Umlaut: I already made the note that it was only one post that was just really sticking out to me.
About TheJester: I've seen scum try to reaffirm popular opinion in their catch-up to seem towny.
Miscellaneous:
>I meant Aubrey has been doing some very good scumhunting, meaning I like how the quality of it.
All @Dunnstral.

[Gamma Emerald]

Vanilla Townie.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, please just call me Gamma.

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you kidding me??? WTF is that post.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, how many votes are on Dunnstral right now? He's not my first pick, but if it's the only option other than me I'm okay with lynching him.

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's make it 2 then.
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd like to propose something: town PR role claims should not specify which faction their powers are based towards.
Also: did you miss the bit where I claimed VT?

[Gamma Emerald]

Null =/= Neutral. Of course, you don't care because you're scum looking for any way to make me look bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

How has Dunn been stepping it up? So far he's just tunneling me.

[Gamma Emerald]

That doesn't answer my question.
Also, it seems no one saw the fact that I claimed Vanilla Townie. I can definite think of some pr claims I could have done as mafia/werewolf.

[Gamma Emerald]

But how has Dunn been "stepping it up"?

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. Just ignore the fact

I claimed Vanilla Townie

and lynch me anyway.
This town is fucked. You are so unwilling to try to make change that my wagon ended up being the only viable one. Please do some better scumhunting in the following days. Least you could do after grouptunneling me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. Just ignore the fact

I claimed Vanilla Townie

and lynch me anyway.
This town is fucked. You are so unwilling to try to make change that my wagon ended up being the only viable one. Please do some better scumhunting in the following days. Least you could do after grouptunneling me.

Why do you keep acting as if scum would never claim VT?

I wouldn't, especially not in this setup.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. As I said, keep some options open in the following days.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty much the same as before. I can elaborate if you like.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which ones? I'll elaborate on up to 5, because I'm not sure I'll have time to do much more.

[Gamma Emerald]

First is Yakko, my definitive strongest townread.

VOTE: Skold

Okay, so this is scum. I legit scumread every post they've made thus far. Something is just wrong here and it is the colour of their role PM.

Join me!

can you explain what about his posts made you "legit" scumread all of them. Specifically what makes his post obv scum in your eyes. I think you're lying here. aristo.

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

the only way to know that zach is derailing discussion is if he is wrong. how do you know he is wrong? surely you are aware the game doesn't revolve around your reads.

In both of these, he directly calls out people. I'm fairly certain he is not scum because of this.

[Gamma Emerald]

I've already elaborated on a few of Umlaut's posts, but I will say that he is less of a scumread no that I realize that it was only really one post that felt like stifling discussion.

[Gamma Emerald]

On Dunnstral:

VOTE: Ümläüt

VOTE: Ümläüt

Porque? Don't give me the "I don't do analysis" bit either. Please and thank you.

Well nobody else really reacted to the vote

Let's just say I was slightly irked by the post before my vote






VOTE: MeowMix

How many more votes do we need here?

I think Zach might be town


Let's get

VOTE: Aristophanes

This guy looks bad for real

Lurking is anti-Town.

You've literally lurked in every game I've ever seen you in






VOTE: BTD6_maker

4 posts where he changes his vote. Wishy washy much?

Something_Scummy is whiteknighting harder than Zach usually does while trying to be on the down-low about it

Seems to be throwing shade on Zach.

Zach, why are you refusing to give your reads out of curiosity? I have a townie read from you based on your defense of gamma. I doubt the two of you are scum aligned. If you two were scum, I wouldn't understand Gamma's defense of Skold earlier. From that point of view I would assume your intentions Regarding that defense was town driven vs. scum driven. long story short, I think you have a strong town possibility so I'm interested in your reads. Refusing to give reads doesn't make a lot of sense.

This? I don't currently scumread Gamma and I don't currently townread Zach and I think it's dumb and/or wrong but I don't think you're scummy

Zach makes his reads clear as town, too, even if he doesn't come out and say it he'll be white knighting people

That's why it's rather odd that he jumped onto BTD6 so fast (though I do think BTD6 is scum, too, so it could be a bus move)

Didn't he say he thought Zach was town?

And of course: he has been extremely opportunistic. He has admitted to attempting to manipulate Aubrey even.

[Gamma Emerald]

On MeowMix (because Vax has barely posted)

umlaut let's be best friends

This is called buddying, good sirs.

wow holy shit

UNVOTE: Gammerald
VOTE: BTD6_maker

Sorta opportunistic vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

And finally, elaboration on my null reads.
BTD6: His posts have felt NAI to me. I'm not sure what to think of him, so he's null.
Zach: Pretty much the opposite. He's had towny and scummy posts. These balance out into a null read.

[Gamma Emerald]

WOW
BTD6 fakehammered.
Well since it's pretty much decided anyway:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
So long and thanks for all the fish!

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I was the only viable wagon. No point denying my fate.

[Gamma Emerald]

You're all bad
Dunn was always scum
You let him slip by for THREE DAYS

[Gamma Emerald]

GG Zach tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you ignore my points on Dunn?

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait GT is an Aristo alt

[Gamma Emerald]

NO