Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[BTD6_maker]

Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT

1: Mafia. My wiki page has a list of completed games, and I tend to play better for some reason when scum.
2: I had once thought of a role that could target someone to swap roles with them (for example, if they target az Cop they become a Cop and the Cop becomes this role). I am not sure whether this exists yet in MS.net but it would be interesting to see.
3: If anything, Town may have better chances. The different factions are trying to hunt each other so 2-2-9 may be better for Town thn something like 3-10.

4: What role do you dislike the most?
Vigilantes. I personally hate them and will try never to use them in my own (non-bastard) setups. To me, it seems like a Vig is just going to end up killing Townies and bringing the game closer to LyLo. On the day before LyLo, a Vig can even instantly doom Town.

[BTD6_maker]

Town hunting and PoE aren't as effective in multifaction games, as I said above.

So you want me to make shit up? Well your name begins with an A so you're scum. Mafia has an A in it while Werewolf doesn't so I can probably look for another A to put you with.

I am going through ISOs. This one seems odd. Aristophanes' post is a relevant point, though it is debatable whether it is true. That does not matter. It is still certainly content. Skold's point is a complete false equivalence and is patent nonsense.

Skold is a scumlean. I will analyse the other main wagons later.

VOTE: Skold

[BTD6_maker]

@Mimikyu: Nobody up until now has said much about Gamma that I recall. This to me is a new take on things, cause they could just have parroted something that has already occurred. If you are unsatisfied with Meowmix's lack of responding to current events, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea poke and prod them.

@Ümläüt: There really isn't a need to be abrasive in this game. However, @Blackstar even you've been abrasive when you say a post is stupid and what not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

hey mimikoo I'm sorry that I decided to add a new read to the game, next time I will be sure to just sheep whoever writes the longest tldrs

I don't see the point of this post. Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all. It does not mean that you should avoid giving reads altogether. This is misrep.

By the way, for GE's 5th question, my most hated tactic is strongarming. In strongarming you tunnel someone while refusing to answer any questions or give reasons (and taking requests for reasons to be obvscum). RadiantCowbells did it to me on Day 2 of Newbie 1700.

[BTD6_maker]

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

Please speedlynch this lol

Why? While there may indeed be actions that are inherently scummy because they can only come from a scum intention, this is no reason to speedlynch. We are in early Day 1.

By the way, I am slightly busy with RL right now (including the past few days). It shouldn't be bad enough to declare V/LA though.

[BTD6_maker]

Some of GE's more recent posts.

"Frustrated lynchbait" is exactly how I feel right now.

Why would a Town player identify as lynchbait? In my opinion it seems like scum are more likely to do that as claiming to be lynchbait may be an attempt at stopping your lynch. This is slightly scummy.

Great job guys. I tried to be active in the discussion, and this is what happens. I guess I'll just copy my EpicMafia habits and lurk all the time. Thanks for teaching me this valuable lesson.

This is also rubbish misrep. What matters is not whether you are actve, but what you say. Lurking is anti-Town.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[BTD6_maker]

You have only seen two of my prior games, both of which occurred when I was seriously overgamed (if I remember correctly, up to 7 games at once).

This time I am busy in Real Life. I should still be able to analyse the game.

[BTD6_maker]

My other scumreads are Blackstar and Skold, but they are weaker. I will explain my three scumreads in more detail.

[BTD6_maker]

Something I noticed from Dunnstral:

You're also usually lynchbait so I'm going to assume you're actually scum this time

I lurked in the last two games I was in with you and I was Town. To suggest purely based on that that I must be scum in this game is the Gambler's Fallacy.

[BTD6_maker]

wow holy shit

UNVOTE: Gammerald
VOTE: BTD6_maker

Can you please justify this? The fact that I am busy in Real Life means that I cannot put as much time into this game as I would like to. Soon I will be less busy and will be able to invest more into this.

I would prefer it if everyone stopped scumreading me purely because of my low activity. Real life is more important to me than MS.net life.

[BTD6_maker]

There is a difference between deliberate lurking (what Gamma claimed he would be doing) which is definitely scummy, and being more inactive in Real Life than usual, which is what I am, as I do not control exactly when my Real Life gets busy.

I'm not always like this. However, I was very often inactive during my overgaming period, in which I ended up lurking in the majority of my games. This is probably why you think that I always lurk.

Gamma said that he will be inactive because expressing his opinion gets him scumread. I said that I will be inactive because Real Life comes first. This is the difference.

Also, I voted Gamma both for saying he will lurk and saying he was lynchbait.

[BTD6_maker]

I can understand how Town gets frustrated, but that doesn't change the fact that as Town you still want to be contributing in order to have any chance of helping the scumhunt.

[BTD6_maker]

Gamma, what was a joke? Saying you are lynchbait, saying you will lurk, or both?

[BTD6_maker]

I have already explained my reasons for Skold. For Blackstar, my reasons were mostly the same as Zachstralkita's.

[BTD6_maker]

the myriad of reasons to vote gamma have been hashed out in the thread. it would have been simple to just say "I'm sheeping meowmix/aubrey/zach/whoever" and throwing a vote down. trying to find something scummy in gamma's recent posts seems like a way to appear contributing while actually not really doing so

re: the second point it was but trying to justify his lurking bothers me a bit

This is why. Any more detail is probably not necessary.

[BTD6_maker]

True. I have not been putting that much effort because of Real Life. When that clears up I will be able to focus more on this.

Who is Shadow?

[BTD6_maker]

That's pretty weak; just because some arguments have been put forth in favor of Gamma being scum doesn't mean that everyone who scumreads Gamma has to do it for those reasons. Clearly he found those posts scummy and wanted to act on them.

And I don't see what's bad about justifying his lurking. He's recognizing that it's a situation that he wants to change if/when he can.

I find this post to be Townish. There may be many reasons to scumread someone and different people may scumread for different reasons. A scum would more likely just go with the consensus and would likely escape consequences and push my mislynch.

Something_Scummy is whiteknighting harder than Zach usually does while trying to be on the down-low about it

What is your definition of whiteknighting?

Why do people quote wall?
Wtf is the point of it!?

Either spoiler it or link the posts. The above clutter the thread and makes your point far less compelling because people like me singly won't read them.

Smart, where have I seemed fake?

63, 167, 427
Meh, I actually am not seeing it as much as I was before. You've said some stuff that sounds fake at first sight as town before. Now I am even more interested to hear your thoughts

True, but the question is whether posts seeming fake mean scum. The majority of us do not type how we speak. I have found that my own posts seem rather formal and sometimes artificial when I post, due to my posting style. Fake-looking posts are NAI or at best weak.

Yeah, I'm really starting to distrust Dunn.
VOTE: Dunnstral

I don't trust you. You're just sheeping every wagon that forms.

This is very true and this vote looks pretty darn opportunistic... Gamma's probably going to be pretty tough to read.

I agree with this post. GE did make an opportunistic vote, without state reasons.

I don't trust the people on your wagon either

[3] Gamma Emerald -

BlackStar

, Ümläüt, BTD6_Maker

.....................................................................

oh wait he unvoted. but still

@blackstar can you explain more indepth your distrust for users: umlaut, btd?

"But still" what?

Something Smart is a Townread of mine. This is a sample of his posts. I will give more analysis when I am less busy, which should hopefully be in less than a week.

[BTD6_maker]

I have read through Aristophanes' early game ISO and really struggle to see how he is obvTown.I am not that sure whether calling himself obvTown is scummy or not. If anything, it's slight Town. Gamma Emerald's post says that saying this is a huge scumtell. I don't see the logic behind this. Personally, I find Gamma's response fairly scummy.

Sorry. I have been busier and have very litte time to analyse the game so I have just been skimming. The work should clear up soon though, hopefully by the start of Day 2.

[BTD6_maker]

I'm not so sure. When I have been really frustrated in the past as Town (such as during RadiantCowbells' death tunnel in Newbie 1700) I have occasionally used LAMIST. What's the site meta regarding it?

[BTD6_maker]

If Skold said he never scumhunted it seems more of a meta thing than anything else. It looks as though Aristo made an RVS vote and is trying to justify it. I found Skold scummy, but only later.

[BTD6_maker]

Wow, a lot more activity has occurred right out the gate than I was expecting in comparison to my previous game. Any who, usually the day starts out with RVP and just getting feelers for people in general, so It'll be more interesting once everyone has confirmed.

Who talks like this? We all now how RVS works so there's literally no point to this post at all. It's just fluff designed to look positive.

Impeccable reasoning Blackstar. I'll sheep that hard.
VOTE: umlaut
Heads up I don't scumhunt because it's stupid and leads to basically random lynches. I'm warming to town read into PoE but that could be a symptom of positivity bias that suggests because when I town read someone I am statistically likely to be right, I end up believing my townreads are accurate.

So basically your goal is to just locate townies, and by process of elimination locate the mafia/werewolves? Why not just do both (Scumhunt and Friendhunt)? In a game like this, one needs to do both in order to be successful to me. At least that how I go about it. To just locate townies (without considering the scum motivations) seems like an excuse in order to avoid certain conversations.

And then you try again to look overly townie with that "one needs to do this in order to be successful" part. There's more than one way to play Mafia and it's weird that you're trying to doubt cast someone just because they do things differently from you

where they really trying to cast doubt? looking at it from all possible directions I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion. can you tell me why you believe they were trying to cast doubt? Or is that you're condemning Aubrey for doing exactly what you're doing? because you don't play like x you must be scum.

This post seems Townish to me. I don't see how focusing on Townhunting is doubtcasting. It's probably just Skold's meta.

I think the issue is anyone thinking that

anyone

could have a strong scumread on page 8 of the game.

then I'd say you're not good at the game. not allowing the possibility that someone is better than you or plays differently sets you up for failure.

I agree. I never have strong scumreads early on but other people might. I consider it likely that strong scumreads too early have a high probability of being wrong, but otherwise having them is not scummy.

In short, Yakko is a slight Townread of mine. I no longer scumread this slot.

[BTD6_maker]

I'm goign to write out some thoughts as I read.

I'm n page 9 right now, holy cow you guys talk alot.... that's... GREAT!

Blackstar seems kinda aggressive but I have more of a null read on him so far.

Jester seems pretty scummy to me at the moment. Hes just sitting in the back acting like a commentator.

Page 10

Not really agreeing with meow's (i know its my slot!) thoughts on Gamma. Jester actually joins the game with post 246

Page 13

I'm seeing some similar commentator actions from Dunn, they have some thoughts on people but don't explain why.

Page 18 (yeah im stating to skim through some pages. I've been reading for more than 2 hours now!)

Holy shit! Some guy name BTD6_maker is in this game? Lurking hard!

Clearly you missed my explanation of my Real Life being busy.

Oh god I just powered through he last of it.

I need more time to read through iso's but here are some current thoughts of where we are at. I'm not down for a gamma vote. Dunn vote im ok with , but would really prefer a jester vote first.

Do you have any reasoning for your Townread on Gamma and scumread on Jester and Dunn?

I'm not sure about a something smart vote yet. I still have a null read with a slight town edge.

I'm just going to post what I have and start participating wher we are at in the game.

VOTE: The-Jester

Overall this is nullish to me.
Other Real Life things are more important right now. However, I should be fine by the start of Day 2.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Hammered. This day is stalling and there really is no feasible lynch other than this. I do not have much time today, but I will probably have more time by Day 2 start.

[BTD6_maker]

Any final reads?

[BTD6_maker]

Please do.

[BTD6_maker]

Your 5 strongest reads, preferably scumreads.

[BTD6_maker]

There are several points to answer. Firstly, people such as Vaxkiller read me as scummy for lurking. My inactivity was due to Real Life and now I am freer to post. I should manage at least every day now.

Two scum died, which is obviously a benefit, but now we must find the remaining scum.

Before this, I weakly scumread Blackstar. Now my read has shifted towards Town. If Blackstar is scum, he is probably with SS in my opinion and not Umlaut. I will explain why shortly.

[BTD6_maker]

A sample of Umlaut's posts.

Please remove the statements you don't believe:

• Aubrey is scummy
  
• BlackStar is scummy
  
• Everyone who has attacked BlackStar is scummy

Here I don't see this as what scum would do if Umlaut was scum with Blackstar. Umlaut is casting shade on Blackstar, but equally on Aubrey and anyone attacking Blackstar. Scum bussing would probably have stuck to Blackstar.

Losing confidence on BlackStar though

Personally, I would think a scum bussing would in my opinion push throughout the day. Generally a scum bus would probably only work if the scum are committed to bussing.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Vaxkiller complains that I was lurking hard and using that as evidence that I am scum for sure, when I have explicitly mentioned repeatedly that I was busy in Real Life. This is one of the scummiest points I have seen.
Go to the wiki and look at the page for the Strawman fallacy. What Vax is saying almost exactly matches with the page example.

[BTD6_maker]

Vaxkiller/Yakko didn't interact with what was going on with votes between me/Gamma that whole thing AT ALL

Just ignored it and wrote other stuff that doesn't really matter

(I think this is scummy behavior)

I really don't feel Gamma is scum, My preference is Jester before Dunn, but I'll vote Dunn over Gamma for sure.

I have alot more time at the moment so I plan on being more involved int his game, besides, I have no idea about the craziness that went on day one. I wasn't for a gamma vote int he begining, but he was acting strange when he had a few people on him, and well, he self voted... waht self respecting tonw does that?

Anyway, we could not have a a better start to the day, 2 friggin scum gone. Nice job guys! *slow clap*!!!!!

Back to the game:

I'm still suspicious of the Jester and a few others, but this takes me to my main point:

BTD6maker is mafia for sure

. Hes lurking hard, holding back in the wings, following his scum buddy umlaut to gamma. However when Umlat goes off on his own thing, he doesn't feel comfortable and continues to lurk, on gamma, doing very little for the game. Some fluff here and there, saying just enough to not get voted over everyone else being so loud.

Never

speaks to umlaut, even tho Umlaut RVS voted him, defends him and asks questions to him!


BTD never responds and umlaut never pressures him for answers.
This is my top scum read ATM.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I've looked through Vax's ISO and here is what I have found.
I have already explained I am not lurking.
Umlaut voted Gamma. So did so many other people. At the end, 5 other people (excluding Gamma himself) were on the wagon. "Saying just enough" can again be explained by Real Life being busy.
Partially due to inactivity, there are probably a lot of people who I never spoke to.
RVS voting is in my opinion completely NAI.
If someone defends someone, you are not required to respond to everything, especially if busy.
Due to being busy, I skimmed the thread so I may not have replied to questions.

These can pretty much all be answered with the same reason, which is my Real Life being busy. This is NAI, so Vax's case does not stand up to scrutiny.
A busy and therefore inactive player makes a great scum target, though. This is why I find Vax opportunistic in the push.

[BTD6_maker]

Votecount 1.1

[1] BTD6_Maker -

Ümläüt

[1] Mimikyu -

Gamma Emerald

[0]

Javajoe24

[1] MeowMix - Zachstralkita
[0] Aubrey
[0]

Gamma Emerald

[0] Skold
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - Dunnstral
[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[1] The_Jester - Skold
[1]

Ümläüt

- BlackStar
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: BTD6_Maker, Mimikyu,

Javajoe24

, MeowMix, Aubrey, Aristophanes

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.2

[0] BTD6_Maker
[2] Mimikyu -

Gamma Emerald

,

Ümläüt

[1]

Javajoe24

- Aubrey
[0] MeowMix
[1] Aubrey - BlackStar
[0]

Gamma Emerald

[2] Skold - Aristophanes, MeowMix
[1] BlackStar - Zachstralkita
[1] Zachstralkita - Dunnstral
[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[1] The_Jester - Skold
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: BTD6_Maker,

Javajoe24

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.3

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu -

Gamma Emerald

[1]

Javajoe24

- Aubrey
[0] MeowMix
[1] Aubrey - BlackStar
[0]

Gamma Emerald

[2] Skold - Aristophanes, MeowMix
[2] BlackStar - Zachstralkita,

Ümläüt

[1] Zachstralkita - Dunnstral
[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[1] The_Jester - Skold
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: BTD6_Maker,

Javajoe24

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.4

[0] BTD6_Maker
[0] Mimikyu
[0]

Javajoe24

[0] MeowMix
[1] Aubrey - BlackStar
[1]

Gamma Emerald

- MeowMix
[2] Skold - Aristophanes, BTD6_Maker
[2] BlackStar - Zachstralkita,

Ümläüt

[2] Zachstralkita - Dunnstral,

Gamma Emerald

[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[2] The_Jester - Skold, Aubrey
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

Javajoe24

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.5

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu -

Ümläüt

[0]

Javajoe24

[0] MeowMix
[0] Aubrey
[1]

Gamma Emerald

- MeowMix
[2] Skold - Aristophanes, BTD6_Maker
[1] BlackStar - Zachstralkita
[2] Zachstralkita - Dunnstral,

Gamma Emerald

[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[2] The_Jester - Skold, Aubrey
[2]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu, BlackStar
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

Javajoe24

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.6

[0] BTD6_Maker
[2] Mimikyu -

Ümläüt

, Zachstralkita
[0]

Javajoe24

[0] MeowMix
[0] Aubrey
[1]

Gamma Emerald

- MeowMix
[2] Skold - Aristophanes, BTD6_Maker
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - Dunnstral
[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[2] The_Jester - Skold, Aubrey
[2]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu, BlackStar
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

Javajoe24

,

Gamma Emerald

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.7

[0] BTD6_Maker
[2] Mimikyu -

Ümläüt

, Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[0] MeowMix
[0] Aubrey
[1]

Gamma Emerald

- MeowMix
[3] Skold - Aristophanes, BTD6_Maker, Aubrey
[0] BlackStar
[0] Zachstralkita
[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[1] The_Jester - Skold
[3]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu, BlackStar, Dunnstral
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

Something_Smart

,

Gamma Emerald

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Votecount 1.8

[2] BTD6_Maker - Dunnstral, MeowMix
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[1] MeowMix -

Gamma Emerald

[0] Aubrey
[3]

Gamma Emerald

- BlackStar,

Ümläüt

, BTD6_Maker
[2] Skold - Aristophanes, Aubrey
[0] BlackStar
[0] Zachstralkita
[1] Dunnstral - The_Jester
[1] The_Jester - Skold
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

Something_Smart

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

MeowMix was prodded.

Votecount 1.9

[2] BTD6_Maker - MeowMix, Dunnstral
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[1] MeowMix -

Something_Smart

[0] Aubrey
[3]

Gamma Emerald

-

Ümläüt

, BTD6_Maker, BlackStar
[1] Skold - Aristophanes
[0] BlackStar
[0] Zachstralkita
[3] Dunnstral - The_Jester, Aubrey,

Gamma Emerald

[1] The_Jester - Skold
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

Searching Skold and MeowMix replacements.

Votecount 1.10

[2] BTD6_Maker - MeowMix, Dunnstral
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[1] MeowMix -

Something_Smart

[0] Aubrey
[3]

Gamma Emerald

-

Ümläüt

, BTD6_Maker, BlackStar
[1] Skold - Aristophanes
[0] BlackStar
[0] Zachstralkita
[3] Dunnstral - The_Jester, Aubrey,

Gamma Emerald

[1] The_Jester - Skold
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-25 14:45:00)

New deadline

Votecount 1.11

[1] BTD6_Maker - Vaxkiller
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[1]

Something_Smart

- BlackStar
[0] Vaxkiller
[0] Aubrey

[5]

Gamma Emerald

-

Ümläüt

, BTD6_Maker, Dunnstral, Aubrey, Aristophanes [L-2]

[0] hi im Yakko
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - hi im Yakko
[2] Dunnstral - The_Jester,

Gamma Emerald

[0] The_Jester
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

Something_Smart

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-27 13:00:00)

Votecount 1.12

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[1]

Something_Smart

- BlackStar
[0] Vaxkiller
[0] Aubrey
[2]

Gamma Emerald

- BTD6_Maker, Dunnstral
[0] hi im Yakko
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - hi im Yakko

[5] Dunnstral - The_Jester,

Gamma Emerald

,

Ümläüt

,

Something_Smart

, Aubrey [L-2]

[1] The_Jester - Vaxkiller
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Aristophanes

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-27 13:00:00)

Votecount 1.13

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[0] Vaxkiller
[0] Aubrey

[5]

Gamma Emerald

- BTD6_Maker, Dunnstral, BlackStar, Aubrey,

Ümläüt

[L-2]

[0] hi im Yakko
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - hi im Yakko
[3] Dunnstral - The_Jester,

Gamma Emerald

,

Something_Smart

[1] The_Jester - Vaxkiller
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Aristophanes

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-27 13:00:00)

Votecount 1.14

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[0] Vaxkiller
[0] Aubrey

[5]

Gamma Emerald

- BTD6_Maker, Dunnstral, BlackStar, Aubrey,

Ümläüt

[L-2]

[0] hi im Yakko
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - hi im Yakko
[2] Dunnstral -

Something_Smart

, Aristophanes
[1] The_Jester - Vaxkiller
[2]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu,

Gamma Emerald

[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: The_Jester

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-27 13:00:00)

Votecount 1.15

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[0] Vaxkiller
[0] Aubrey

[6]

Gamma Emerald

- BTD6_Maker, Dunnstral, BlackStar,

Ümläüt

, Aristophanes, Aubrey [L-1]

[0] hi im Yakko
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - hi im Yakko
[2] Dunnstral -

Something_Smart

,

Gamma Emerald

[1] The_Jester - Vaxkiller
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: The_Jester

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-27 13:00:00)

Votecount 1.16

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu - Zachstralkita
[0]

Something_Smart

[0] Vaxkiller
[0] Aubrey

[7]

Gamma Emerald

- BTD6_Maker, Dunnstral, BlackStar,

Ümläüt

, Aristophanes, Aubrey,

Gamma Emerald

[LYNCH]

[0] hi im Yakko
[0] BlackStar
[1] Zachstralkita - hi im Yakko
[1] Dunnstral -

Something_Smart

[1] The_Jester - Vaxkiller
[1]

Ümläüt

- Mimikyu
[0] Aristophanes

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: The_Jester

There are 13 players alive, 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-09-27 13:00:00)

[BTD6_maker]

As for the wagon-hopping opportunists, Aristo and Aubrey stand out. It is worth considering that Umlaut in particular was also opportunistically wagoning. It is likely that the scum partner was doing the same.

[BTD6_maker]

Aubrey did start the main push on Dunn but the interesting point is that he then switched right back to Gamma later. Aristo voted Dunn much later and also switched back.

I don't get the case about me being scum with Umlaut on some flimsy interactions that can be explained by my Real Life.

Inactivity due to Real Life is anti-Town but it is not lurking and is NAI, not scummy. (It is anti-Town because it hurts Town, but there is not much I could have done about it). People assume that since circumstances out of my control are hurting Town, they must be scummy. There is no correlation between getting assigned a Role PM randomly and having a busy schedule. This is why I view Vaxkiller's push as scummy.

[BTD6_maker]

Anti-town actions are actions that work against the interest of Town.
Scummy actions are actions more likely to be performed by scum.
That is the difference.

I understand your point about V/LA but why would I ever replace out of a game if I know I can be more active later? I signed up to play in this game.
Lurking is when a player can read the posts but tactically chooses not to contribute.

[BTD6_maker]

It looks like I am at L-1 and my lynch is likely. Should I claim?

[BTD6_maker]

Umlaut. vs. BTD.

Post 12
Post 444

Kinda interesting. I find scum more likely to use that meta bullcrap, or something small and not bandwagon worthy, to create distance between their partners. On the flip side, I've seen scum go hard as all get out against their partners to create distance. 444, This came across as scum possibly trying to create an easy bandwagon at first since it did seem contradictory for BTD to vote Gamma due to "lurking". The really interesting part though is he also gave a defense of sorts to BTD's inactivity/lurky play-style beforehand. It also almost sounds like he is...coaching him. Or is it just me? Weird post.

BTD did respond to this though...post 446. Umlaut never retorted back though.

--

Vax, you said BTD never responded back to Umlaut's accusations. I hope you weren't only looking at post 12 since it was RVS.

Vax, just so you know, I was replying to Umlaut in this post.
Personally, the Vax wagon is going nowhere. Aristo is more likely scum at this stage from the VCA.
VOTE: Aristophanes

[BTD6_maker]

Ninja'd.

[BTD6_maker]

I am the Tracker. I saw Blackstar going nowhere on Night 1.

[BTD6_maker]

I scumread Blackstar and thought Blackstar was more likely to kill. I considered Dunnstral at first (who was a weaker scumread) but rejected it as I highly doubted Dunnstral would kill.

[BTD6_maker]

Aristo is scummier byVCA but Vax is scummier by play. Anyway, I unvoted Vax as the wagon was not viable but now it is possible.

For now,
VOTE: Vaxkiller

[BTD6_maker]

Right now I am considering whether to vote Aristophanes. It may be necessary but again there is the dichotomy in terms of different forms of scumminess.

Also, just to let everyone know, Thursdays are generally busy for me. Other days are usually fine.

[BTD6_maker]

I mostly agree with the case on Vaxkiller. Aristo's play looks more Town at this stage. At the moment I would rather not switch to Aristo so my vote stays.

There is only one scum left of either faction so we can make a decision as to my target. If Vax flips Mafia, I will pick someone Towny to hopefully get a possible PR or wolf RB. (Obviously I will not announce my result until necessary).Otherwise I will probably track Aristo.

[BTD6_maker]

Aubrey, if you think the game is dead, why don't you consider a Vax lynch?

[BTD6_maker]

So can you. This game has stalled, and we need more votes.

[BTD6_maker]

This game is dead. I am considering switching to Aristo just to get an L-1 but I would really prefer it if even one more person (preferably Jester or Zachstralkita) switched to Vaxkiller first. The game started very active and now the activity is dropping drastically. (This was similar to Open 642, where at one point almost every player alive was due for a prod, most (including me) were due for a force replacement but were not even prodded, and the mod had abandoned us for days. We ended up with two consecutive No Lynches.)

[BTD6_maker]

This is going nowhere until Zach or Jester start voting one of the wagons. If Jester is opposed to an Aristo lynch, why not vote Vax?

[BTD6_maker]

Your maths is wrong. It is 34 hours.

Vax's V/LA lasts for the entirety of today. I would recommend a lynch before then.

Ninja'd.

[BTD6_maker]

Why would you switch your vote? You are going to be the lynch today now Aristo is at L-3.

[BTD6_maker]

I survived, and Aristophanes went nowhere. I doubt Aristo is Mafia as Mafia would try to kill me (they do not know whether a Doc exists). Thus I can conclude that a Doc exists and is protecting me, while Aristo is probably not Mafia.

[BTD6_maker]

What does the orange on Aristo mean?

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Aubrey

The new VCA makes Aubrey look suspect.

[BTD6_maker]

With Ari being Mafia killing me is a gamble. If successful, Town won't get any info on who is Mafia and the Tracker is dead. A No Kill gambit is possible here but having me dead is better for Mafia than not killing. It's riskier to kill, though, because if the Doc protects me (if a Doc exists) I will be able to speak.

I'm not suggesting we claim now but if in the future a BP is found, Aristo looks much, much worse.

PEdit: I'm a Tracker. I can't see Wolf kills.

[BTD6_maker]

Aristo could definitely be scum. However, we should probably go after Aubrey first. It is possible that in the future a BP is revealed, for example, and Aristo looks near confscum.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: Aristophanes

There is a Doc so this is probably not Mafia but it's the scummiest we have and is the most likely Werewolf based on VCA. Aubrey will protect me again so I will be able to test for Mafia again tonight so we should try to find a Werewolf today.

[BTD6_maker]

If there is a Sorceror it is {Dunn, Mimikyu, Yakko, Zach}. Eagersnake and Aristophanes are almost certainly not PR by my results. Thus this is an added bonus to lynching Aristo today. (Unless you want to lynch Eagersnake, which I don't).

[BTD6_maker]

I know that Eager and Aristo are probably not PR because of my Tracker results. I am not narrowing down anything beyond that.

[BTD6_maker]

I currently prefer an Aristo lynch. We should be able to push this through. Aristo is near-guaranteed either Wolf or VT so this is a better lynch than Yakko.

[BTD6_maker]

Aristophanes is still the better lynch. The Seer is dead. The Tracker is alive (and will stay so for at least one more day, thanks to Aubrey). I can effectively act similarly to a Cop barring No Kill gambits. Thus I can hunt Mafia but no one can hunt Werewolves. We should kill Werewolves by day because of it. Aristo is probably not Mafia, but he is very likely Werewolf.

[BTD6_maker]

We have plenty of time and I do not particularly want to hammer Yakko. This game looks like it has stalled.

[BTD6_maker]

If anyone but Yakko is lynched, Yakko is my target. If Yakko is lynched, I will pick someone else to track, probably Mimikyu. Either way, Aristo will probably flip Werewolf here.
Dunnstral, if the Mimikyu wagon goes nowhere, will you consider Aristo?

[BTD6_maker]

I can presume Mafia killed Aubrey as I cannot see it being optimal for a wolf to kill Aubrey. Unless we kill Mafia today my death is certain.

What about Werewolves though? If Mafia killed Aubrey then either Werewolves ran a No Kill gambit (with no Stalkers, there is no reason for this) or their kill was protected by a Town Guardian. Hence I can presume a Town Guardian exists.

Yakko went nowhere. I can probably presume he is not Mafia. If he is a wolf he is probably the Roleblocker, in which case I can understand his action as he feared having to claim and being counterclaimed.

This time we want to lynch Mafia. I can probably clear Yakko of this (possibly Eagersnake, though that is less likely). If we do not my death is certain and we are left with just a Guardian.

VOTE: Mimikyu

[BTD6_maker]

If Yakko is Mafia who No Killed, a wolf must have killed Aubrey and I cannot see the motivation behind that.

[BTD6_maker]

Not in multiball. Scum want to kill players who aren't confTown for a greater chance of killing a scum.

[BTD6_maker]

Barring No Kill gambits, the Mafia is likely one of {Zach, Mimi, Dunn}. For now, I prefer the Mimikyu lynch. We should focus on Mafia first today.

[BTD6_maker]

I am willing to tentatively clear Eager and Yakko for now. This leaves Mimikyu, Zach, and Dunnstral. We should lynch Mimikyu today. (We should try to find Mafia specifically if at all possible as my death is certain tonight. If we lynch Mafia I am still confTown so the Guardian, if there is one, should be on me.)

[BTD6_maker]

Lynching one of the three gives a 1/3 chance of hitting Mafia and a 1/5 chance of hitting Werewolf so the total chance of lynching scum is 8/15. Lynching outside the three gives just 1/5 for wolf.

[BTD6_maker]

How is lynching within those 3 a 67% chance of hitting Town? If we don't lynch Mafia while trying to, we may lynch the Werewolf ( who may be one of the three). The chance of hitting Town is only 47%. Remember that Mafia is probably in those three but the wolf may also be.

[BTD6_maker]

It's not beneficial after the Mafia flip. Remember that I have no way of seeing a wolf.

Eager/Yakko are not full confTown. I myself am just tentatively clearing them for now as they are, from my perspective, less likely to be Mafia. We can lynch them later.

I am pretty much guaranteed to die unless Mafia is lynched. If Mafia is lynched, we will most likely have a confTown in MyLo (assuming the Guardian, if one exists, protects me).

[BTD6_maker]

Eager and Yakko are not confTown. They are not even confirmed non-Mafia. However, the tracking results make it less likely that they are Mafia. It is for this reason that I would rather not lynch them today and instead lynch a more likely Mafia.

[BTD6_maker]

Zulfy, you should probably join the Mimikyu wagon. Currently Mimikyu is the most likely candidate for Mafia.

[BTD6_maker]

Zulfy, we must lynch Mafia today and have a Guardian on me or I die tonight. (I can still help to locate the Guardian and potentially RB unless the RB is on me, and I am the only guaranteed confTown left). Mimikyu is my personal choice for most likely Mafia.

[BTD6_maker]

In order for a confTown Day 5 we need to lynch a Mafia. Eagersnake is unlikely to be Mafia. So is Yakko. This is why I want to lynch the scummiest out of {Mimikyu, Dunn, Zach} which is Mimikyu. I am not sure why Town are voting for people less likely to be Mafia and therefore scum.

[BTD6_maker]

Can the Eager wagoners please give a case? The correct lynch today is probably Mimikyu based on the role information so if people are wagoning Eager they need a strong case.

[BTD6_maker]

Yakko should indeed have voted Mimikyu. The question now is whether Zulfy will.

[BTD6_maker]

There are 2 cases:
1: The wolf killed Aubrey.
2: The wolf did not kill Aubrey.

In Case 1, the wolf knows that Mafia will try to kill Aubrey. This would happen in all cases except possibly for Yakko being Mafia. Thus if the wolf killed Aubrey they think Yakko is Mafia and that they can lynch him. (Although it may have been better to kill Yakko, but that would leave 5 players with up to 3 confTown so the wolf may not take that risk and wait for PRs to die). In this case, the wolf was very likely on Yakko yesterday.
In Case 2, Yakko can immediately be cleared.

Hence Yakko is only Mafia if the wolf was on his wagon. I will check the VCs.

[BTD6_maker]

As far as I can tell, that is only Zach and Mimikyu. Hence why they are good lynches (though personally I like the Mimikyu wagon better).

[BTD6_maker]

Dunnstral, it is good. If we lynch Mafia then the Guardian (if there is one, which is likely given the single kill) will be protecting me and when we enter MyLo we will have up to 2 confTowns.

This is why my lynch pool today is {Mimikyu, Zach, Dunn}. I am considering that Zach looks slightly suspicious, but for now anyway Mimikyu is a better lynch. I Townread Dunn.

[BTD6_maker]

Final reads:

Moderate Town: Eager
Weak Town: Zulfy, Dunn
Weak scum: Zach