Open 582: Stackin' the Deck/Hipster Mafia (Over)

[Psyche]

I think that I have a perfect shooting record as a vig, even counting my marathons.

[Bicephalous Bob]

why couldn't you just shoot the mafioso I didn't have a guilty on

[Riddleton]

At least tell us why you didn't kill Dino?

WiFOM. I wanted to keep him alive till LyLo so it looked like a trap like I was easy lynchbait for the scum win.

[Mathdino]

lol i never even considered it was a trap

d1 read was too strong

[Bicephalous Bob]

I bought it for a while

I hope I didn't make ak seppuku

[Psyche]

why couldn't you just shoot the mafioso I didn't have a guilty on

riddle was a scumread but then he said he could prove he was town
i'm not confident enough in my reads to deny opportunities like that

[Psyche]

Post 57 by wgeurts is pretty bad.

a) RVS vote on ABR. This is fine, except how he gets defensive when MathDino questions him not liking RVS. His defensive "But it's RVS" responce is trying to posture his vote as valid as if it was handed down from above. He continues with a pseudo-defence of himself by defending someone else who made a RVS vote; He says Howl's vote "Had bullshit reasons for the lolz" and is acceptable. The point here is his vote was

perfectly acceptable

but the excessive justification of a silky RVS vote is very scummy behaviour.

b) His continues to defend the Howl wagon by analysing everyone's votes on it in the Post 57 wall. BB's vote is "acceptable RVS" but null, somehow -- which makes 0 sense. Then claiming that progressively those who slipped on to the wagon look scummier and scummier, peaking at 2birds. He then proceeds to vote 2birds. I don't think it's a coincidence how the later you are to the Howl wagon, the more scummy wgeurts perceives you to be. Could this defensive behaviour be defending his scumbuddy? (Howl?)

c) Continuing on with the "Oh, the IC looks pretty town" joke is pointkess after it's already been done before already.

IN A NUTSHELL:
Defensive play throughout the game so far. He's no reason to be like this as town. He had this exact same playstyle as scum in O574.

This post seemed mechanical, like you had run some logic program on wgeurts' post. As a psych guy, I'm really interested in understanding what it is about text that can make it feel mechanical.

[Mathdino]

At this stage in the game, I townread Wgeurts, Newbie, Constantine and MathDino. Leaning scum on VictorDeAngelo and MalaKittens.

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

---

Victor

a) First off, we see Victor is quite persistent that people answer their own questions. The conversation between Victor and Acryon here, especially considering the sarcastic tone of the post, comes off as extremely awkward and strange to me. His defensive tone in this post this post is unwarranted, as he was under no suspicion whatsoever at the time.

b) The post on here reads as Victor trying to easily slide on the low-hanging fruit by voting wgeurts. The vote isn't pressure, but yet he doesn't provide any reasoning to back up his wgeurts vote. I don't like how he pushes a wagon by saying "All Aboard" without providing any reasoning for it. In this post, he outright refuses to provide reasoning, instead just posting fluff that the wagon will lead to 'Jelly and Ice Cream'. He later implies the vote was just a reaction test, which makes no sense whatsoever, and just looks like scum trying to back down from suspicion.

c) Post #65 also takes on a hyper-defensive tone, too. Points such as "I questioned why he wanted that specific information. There is a difference." are devoid of emotion and unlike, more sarcastic and joke-y, earlier play. The comment, 'That's a lot of guesswork there Acryon.', tries to passively shoot down Acryon's disapproval of Victor's play. Post #73 and #80 takes on a similar hyper-defensive tone, also, and continue the trend of one-line replies to humongous quotes, to give the false impression of activity whereas there's very little content in Victor's posts. In #80, as linked, he still refuses to interact with wgeurts.

d) Quite a bit of IIOA in here citing meaningless replies to genuine questions and issues. Posts such as 'I don't like #thispost', etc, are not helpful to the gamestate and are usually seen by scum trying to fit-in to the town, without participating much content. We see Victor declaring Mala, my other main scum suspect, as 'town because of opening posts'. What makes you think this? Can you explain in more detail?

e) In the same post, he still hasn't explained his initial wgeurts vote. Nice try with trying to say 'I don't like Wguerts 105. This post doesn't fit the play at all.', but you voted Wgeurts in #53. Obviously, something else has fuelled your reasoning for voting wgeurts, and I don't like you're trying to subtly imply that was your reasoning, especially since the post was made after you voted him in the first place. My theory is he made the wgeurts vote, and just bullshitted his way through it, inventing new reasoning for sticking with it in posts like this. It's a bit of cognitive dissonance. He never has, and I don't think he ever will, explain his

original

reasoning for voting him.

In a nutshell:
-Hyper-defensive play which I don't like
-Dodges his original wgeurts vote, cognitive dissonance with trying to believe it's still a viable wagon by inventing new reasoning for it 'oh this is scummy, yeah wgeurts is scum'. Spoiler alert: wgeurts isn't scum.
-Never really provides any content. His ISO is 90% bullshit.

Caught up.

Hm, so far wgeurts and randommidget are the most likely scum. Here's my case on the latter, as I promised earlier:-

Townie points:

1)I liked the comments by Rm in #71 through RQS, as I discussed earlier. I think his comments about 'Yes I am scum' could be town, reaction testing. A good way to get the ball rolling. If it's by scum, it could be signalling he's a traitor, which I believe another player said, which is why I'm not 100% sold this alone makes RM town.

Scum Points

1) I do not like the droog vote in #120. It seemed like a very opportunistic, and reactive vote to droog's post in #119, backed up by a weak 'fluff posting' explanation in #123. You say it's a 'misunderstanding' later on in #139, and you thought droog was referring people to vote for lurkers. You later say, perhaps for unrelated reasons, that the reasoning you used to vote for droog, 'Fluff posting', was based on a misunderstanding. Explain what misunderstanding that was in more detail, because it does not make sense to me. Why would one vote someone over fluff posting in the first place, and for two, what part of it was 'misunderstood' enough so that you unvoted? Slight AtE in #139 over 'Oh sorry I've been tired sorry for voting my mistake'. My takeaway is that I don't like Rm's interaction w/ droog here, and I find the vote, and quick retracting of such vote for arbitrary reasons suspicious.

2) Follows out from an unusual interaction with droog to an unusual interaction with ABR. Dislikes pre-flip associations, why? I don't think you've answered my question on that. That post, #199, is strangely worded inquiring ABR about the pre-flip associations, but then adding that as part of his passive vote on ABR. You ask a question and shut it off immediately by pushing it as scummy and not considering the other options, such as that figuring pre-flip associations isn't a bad idea.

In a nutshell

I like his posts during RQS, but:-
a) quick to jump on cases and for the wrong reasons
b) The impression I get from his quick-and-snappy comments and votyes is he sets himself up to vote for someone, for flawed reasons, so he can quickly unvote afterwards, or not garner attention after a mislynch with AtE ('Oh, I'm tired' etc) or just claim 'Oh it's a misunderstanding!' for seemingly irrelevant reasons.

Riddleton has a very distinct style of cases. I'm curious to see if you find these cases equally mechanical (without looking up his alignments in either).

[Riddleton]

A distinctively bad style of case

[texcat]

Good game all. Psyche, how did you pick ABR to kill?

[Randomnamechange]

Well well well. GG guys.

[Psyche]

Good game all. Psyche, how did you pick ABR to kill?

I was deciding between a few different people, including wgeurts and TheAlchemist, with the mindset that a null read would be a fine kill and that in general ABR would be hard to get lynched.

And then Hiraki replaced in. I don't really like Hiraki, so that broke the tie.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Thanks Wisdom for finishing the game up - I'm on vacation right now for my anniversary.

There is no dead qt - I was going to make one if the game was still hoing when I got back to my computer so I apologize to those who died.

Thanks to all of the replacements, without you guys the game could have gone from a slam dunk for the town to sputtering out as we've probably all aeen before.

Sorry for any small hiccups or missed deadlines, this was my first modded game and I had to do 90% of it from my mobile.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I may have made a slight mistake (nothing that would give one player another's results, or that would result in different people being alive) in my night action response PMs. Players affected have been notified. Sorry.

You shouldn't have made this post, although I appreciate the sentiment. I get that you might not have realized you'd confirm me as town after our public back-and-forth, but you could've just sent me the result and made me explain it.

[Flubbernugget]

Thanks for modding tolemeister and wisdom. Hit me up when you're modding another one

[Wisdom]

I'll be modding a nightless vengeful mayhem soonish

[droog]

best setup

[Bicephalous Bob]

ha

[Bicephalous Bob]

2birds' scum game strongly reminds me of thor's, now that I think of it.

[droog]

both our runs of this game ended pretty badly for scum
((the first run would have had 2 scum lynches by day 3))

i wonder if we just got lucky in reading each other
or if there's something town-sided about this setup
all those town prs are probably a big concern to scum
and counterclaiming them doent end well

[Alchemist21]

both our runs of this game ended pretty badly for scum
((the first run would have had 2 scum lynches by day 3))

i wonder if we just got lucky in reading each other
or if there's something town-sided about this setup
all those town prs are probably a big concern to scum
and counterclaiming them doent end well

I'm sure there's a site mod who's run the numbers on this setup unless this is still a new one. They could probably tell you if Town usually wins these games.

[Mathdino]

honestly i think we didn't get lucky, it's just that we're all used to each other

i guarantee you that if the exact same players went at it again on any setup, scum would be destroyed

the randomidget and DGB wagon last game for example really hindered town when they were pretty much following their meta, we just didn't know it
meanwhile, riddleton was definitely off from last game and wgeurts caught onto ABR's scum meta

[texcat]

both our runs of this game ended pretty badly for scum
((the first run would have had 2 scum lynches by day 3))

i wonder if we just got lucky in reading each other
or if there's something town-sided about this setup
all those town prs are probably a big concern to scum
and counterclaiming them doent end well

I think scum makes a mistake in getting any roles. With only 2 PRs for town vs 3 scum, I think scum has the advantage. But I think the power roles for town are more powerful than the ones for scum.

[droog]

dino, wed all like to think
if we were scum wed win with this group

but we didnt know each other at all the first time
and town still had 2/3 scum by day 2

[droog]

both our runs of this game ended pretty badly for scum
((the first run would have had 2 scum lynches by day 3))

i wonder if we just got lucky in reading each other
or if there's something town-sided about this setup
all those town prs are probably a big concern to scum
and counterclaiming them doent end well

I think scum makes a mistake in getting any roles. With only 2 PRs for town vs 3 scum, I think scum has the advantage. But I think the power roles for town are more powerful than the ones for scum.

i agree

adding the traitor means more associations
more goon cop targets
and another pr to fight

daytalk is only good if you're running great gambits

joat only thwarts town prs, and choosing it makes them more likely

role cop is nice but situational
bulletproof is very very situational
and shooting the bulletproof almost guarantees he's scum anyways

whereas town gets
tracker (pretty useful)
goon cop (most of the time useless but powerful when useful)
roleblocker (situational but useful)
vigilante (huge threat to scum, minor threat to town)
IC (only a plus for town)
bodyguard (mostly a plus for town)