Open 582: Stackin' the Deck/Hipster Mafia (Over)

[Mathdino]

Yes, I'm very easy to read this game xD. (I love this role)

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Mathdino

OBVIOUS SCUM

VOTE: Riddleton
Let's wagon him!

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Bob

NEW WAGON

[Mathdino]

This is actually a really good game to practice not being transparent since no one has to read me for the stuff I say.

I SOFTCLAIM PR GUYS

[Mathdino]

k early wagon over
UNVOTE: Bob

He wanted to draw it.

ABR, they can't make scum an IC.

Vote: ABR

I had no idea what this was talking about at first but now that I get it I hate it.
VOTE: Howl

[Mathdino]

ONLY A VANILLA TOWNIE WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE WHAT DROOG JUST SAID

[Mathdino]

wait okay completely ignore the above post

let's not have conftown rolefish

[Mathdino]

Mathdino is fun to play with, this just means he'll die very quickly.

History shows scum like to keep the IC alive.

I enjoy this.

Also bodyguard should protect me just in case.

[Mathdino]

He wanted to draw it.

ABR, they can't make scum an IC.

Vote: ABR

This vote makes no sense. ABR rolled scum and made a post about how me being IC is terrible because he himself wanted to be IC? After rolling scum? That'd make ABR town if anything, lol.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: Howl
nope

[Mathdino]

VOTE: ABR
I know your ways.

Is this a random vote? Not sure if you've evolved but I recall a lot of talk of you disliking RVS.

[Mathdino]

Why do you assume the vote was random?

[Mathdino]

hmmmm

Also, general PSA, I'm gonna avoid giving reads lists and avoid my general transparency unless I feel it's necessary to do so (like if I need to defend someone). I find that reads lists say more about the person giving them than the actual people being read.

So yeah the idea is going to be to decrease my influence in terms of my own thoughts and instead pursue a game more based on engagement and interrogation.

This may or may not be difficult.
Am welcome to criticism.

[Mathdino]

Nah, some playstyles will get me lynched. Case and point: My playstyle in my early games.

[Mathdino]

I question 2birds's scum motivation in putting Howl at L-1. Seems very attention drawing, especially to go and say it's L-1. Please expand, wgeurts.

If Howl's a town wagon, ABR's probably worst.

Also I question wgeurts's comments on me. He chose to talk more about my vote on Howl than about Howl himself.

Edit: yay riddleton
this is a good case

[Mathdino]

VOTE: wgeurts

sheeping riddleton

[Mathdino]

i also lol'd

[Mathdino]

If wgeurts flips scum, it's highly likely Howl will be scum as well.

what do you think of the idea that wgeurts knows howl is town

[Mathdino]

If wgeurts flips scum, it's highly likely Howl will be scum as well.

what do you think of the idea that wgeurts knows howl is town

Hmm... I suppose that's also a possibility. Why would wheurts go to such extremes putting on a show to defend town, though, of he was scum?

towncred?

[Mathdino]

Anyway, can any of you actually argue that howl was not RV'ing? As if you can't the whole case on him falls flat and so does a large part of the one on me. I'm being called scum because I opposed the general oppinion and I thought scum joined a wagon.

Assume Howl wasn't random voting.

Please give your thoughts on him and his wagon.

[Mathdino]

What do you make of your wagon, Howl?

[Mathdino]

You an alt?

[Mathdino]

I sense we will be moving out from RVS soon. Time to check my weapons and ammo.

This isn't townposting.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alchemist21

Why is it scumposting?

[Mathdino]

Anyway, can any of you actually argue that howl was not RV'ing? As if you can't the whole case on him falls flat and so does a large part of the one on me. I'm being called scum because I opposed the general oppinion and I thought scum joined a wagon.

Actually it really doesn't.

Putting people to L-1 very early with a flash wagon is a thing that happens all the time. I knew I was making a weird RV. But that;s the entire point of RVS.

The fact that you were very defensive on my behalf is very unnerving because the only two reasons to do that it to try and bring heat of a scum partner, which is potentially an option if it weren't for my green PM and that there wasn't really much pressure in the first place. The second option is that you are scum hoping to white knight and get the free towncred after I flip which is just naive because I wasn't getting lynched anytime soon unless something very unusual happened.

Unvote, Vote: wgeurts

You forgot:

• I'm town defending you as I belive the town is mistaken and I think you're town.
  
• I'm town and I'm defending you because the case on you is crap so I don't want to mis-lynch potentially.
  
• I'm town and I think that scum are on your wagon assuming you're town.

Bro. You started defending him before his first post after RVS. Furthermore, it was a serious vote when your defence rested on it being a random vote.
So remind me why you thought he was town?

[Mathdino]

It's a shame I cant vote mathdino.
Obviously wgeurts texcat scumteam for bussing hard.
VOTE: texcat

You've clearly read the thread. Do you have any serious thoughts?

[Mathdino]

@droog: So wgeurts is town. Why is Riddleton scum?

@Alchemist: Can you prove it's who you are as a player?

[Mathdino]

I sense we will be moving out from RVS soon. Time to check my weapons and ammo.

This isn't townposting.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alchemist21

Why is it scumposting?

It reads like coaching to me.

The move from RVS should never be stated explicitly, because there's always a chance scum will miss it and do something stupid (and I believe that they are more likely to miss it because of their information). Posting out loud in thread that you think we're moving into "serious voting" reads to me like "Hey, buddy, I think the game's getting serious now, better knuckle down"

What do you think of Alchemist's meta?

[Mathdino]

Because it was posted on page 3.

You're based on page 3

Thank you based slimer.

Any thoughts on the game?

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Slimer

Looks like he's trying to fluff his way through.

What're your current reads on Howl and wgeurts?

[Mathdino]

^

What does everyone think of this vote?

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: wgeurts

VOTE: 2birds

[Mathdino]

Ok nvm wasn't much else.

Can some of the people who are solo votes get together and get a counter wagon to us going, kthanks.

VOTE: Riddleton

gogogo

[Mathdino]

Saying "tis RVS" in a semi-casual way like that after thy meta of disliking RVS hast been called out is scummy behaviour.

why

please give me ans anwer that isnt
'wgeurts used to dislike rvs, therefore he must continue disliking rvs'

I've no reason to doubt what the IC is saying.

i played with early-wgeurts twice
both RVSes were around october i think
i have no knowledge of wgeurts's evolution

[Mathdino]

VOTE: ABR
I know your ways.

Is this a random vote?

Not sure if you've evolved

but I recall a lot of talk of you disliking RVS.

[Mathdino]

Well there are peeps that are against the wgeurts wagon, but they are spread out, which does nothing for us because it's just a bunch of people not working together to get any pressure anywhere.

What do you think of Riddleton?

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE:
Thank you for answering my questions texcat.
VOTE: 2birds

Why 2 birds?

Do you do anything other than ask people why they're voting?

Best part is his first serious vote was 2birds.

[Mathdino]

I bet you $100 Im not scum.

Wagons are all boring...

[Mathdino]

Vote wgeurts

Voting anywhere else is a waste of time. There's no real rival counterwagon and I'm not feeling any of the other votes being thrown around.

It's actually a little worrisome that there's not a counterwagon somewhere. I'd have expected scum to try and start one. Although Howl did seem to give a little push in that direction.

go natter our IC
who says our wagons are boring
without pushing any

Not really a response to texcat. Like I could push Riddleton but I'm wanting to see how the first part of the day plays out without my influence in terms of giving people something they can agree/disagree with.

If you want I can look at all the current counter'wagons' to wgeurts.

[Mathdino]

Wgeurys I've defended you pretty hard now

What do you make of Riddleton
Scum with a bad case on you
Or town with a bad case on you

Guessing it's this.

Scum would have to be pretty damn cheeky for that, lol.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: ABR

[Mathdino]

What about that statement makes it something scum would say?

[Mathdino]

Are you voting him for being wrong?

[Mathdino]

Are you voting him for being wrong?

I'm voting him for grasping at whatever he can to try and lynch me.

Why is he trying to lynch you specifically? There's no wagon on you and he's not doing a very good job of herding votes.

[Mathdino]

Guys we have 3 days to the deadline and we've gotten almost nothing done.

Do I really need to start posting reads at this point?

[Mathdino]

I will actually run analysis on this game after marathoning.

MARATHON WEEKEND FOLKS WOOOOOOOOT

[Mathdino]

Alright so randomidget is town, Bob should get off that wagon.

All the other wagons don't suck, lemme look at them.

[Mathdino]

lol

randomidget is solid on the townlist

not for saying to protect me

but for clearly not understanding the setup

and the fact that he's proposing no lynch isn't townish in itself

but the way it's done is townish

but if there's a bodyguard pls protect me, ty

[Mathdino]

I was

but you see, I stopped watching Firefly after a few eps in but I do wanna watch Serenity so I'm marathoning Firefly because my friend is taking a while to catch up to me in Buffy and that's honestly what I want to be watching more.

I'll do a reads list, promise.

[Mathdino]

wgeurts: Weird early random vote discussion, hate the wagon analysis. The indignance around 80 is also pretty scummy IMO. 92 however actually saves him from that, I'm seeing it as consistent with town. Plus I'm cool with the ABR case. Townish scum or scummy town, take your pick. Basically unsure on this. Whatever my read is, it's rare and bloody.

Flubbernugget: No idea how Flubber's meta works, he needs to contribute more, but the changes of opinion and reevaluation look natural, so medium-rare town.

texcat: Not playing her scumgame. She's either improved or meta is useless on her. Or both. Otherwise, weird associations with 2birds and wgeurts and Alchemist IMO, that we need to work out after we get a flip. Rare town for now.

Riddleton: Lynch the fuck out of this if 2birds flips scum. Every step of the way Riddleton appeared to try and start a new wagon to counteract any 2birds suspicion, all the while barely even interacting or giving reads on him. Strong association to be made here, and honestly, I find Riddleton scummier than 2birds. Well done scum.

randomidget: Multiple town tells and mild townslips. You guys are gonna have to come up with damn good reasons later on if you want to lynch him. Well done town.

Howl/Psyche: What the fuck is Psyche's play I don't even

mildly

town? I mean How's play was pretty town but Psyche is totally opaque. Wish I'd been here to interrogate. Get Psyche to explain his votes and reads tomorrow, pls ty. Medium-well town for now due to Howl's play and Psyche's not being inconsistent with town.

droog: This is the part where I'd just dole out a townread for ~~~reasons~~~ if I weren't IC (I don't know why I play differently as IC) but honestly I don't really know what to do here. Nothing stands out, it's pretty much just normal droog. I liked the Riddleton pushing, but slipping onto 2birds's wagon like that was really slimy. I also really like the Bob thing. So yeah, doling out a medium-rare townread but don't take my word on this.

Bob: Gut medium townread.

Alchemist: Nothing stands out in the first half of his ISO, I don't care about the self-meta since I literally asked him for it. Changing his mind on Howl is natural, and his latest play is pretty townish. Medium-well townread, don't lynch, don't understand the case, will ISO the mod last and look at basic wagon stuff.

ABR: Blegh, I see very little evidence of real scumhunting and the premature claim doesn't read as townish as I'd like. Plus IMO his reads are completely backwards and fairly unexplained,

please explain your reads list, ABR, one sentence per is cool

. Medium scumread.

2birds: Alchemist push sucks, 345 is shitty logic, jumping on the Riddleton wagon was seemingly without purpose, and claim stalling especially when scum could have daytalk is really suspicious. Medium-well scumread.

Intent to hammer.

Wagon analysis in a sec.
But seriously, BG protect me so this isn't my last words.

[Mathdino]

Then let's hope 2birds flips town, eh?

[Mathdino]

Sarcasm, and wao softclaim when you're not even on the chopping block.

Your funeral, brother.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: 2birds1stone

IC saves the day

[Mathdino]

No, actually, I wanted a non IC to hammer so we could get possible reads out of it. Also wanted a claim.

[Mathdino]

Impressive.

VOTE: Riddleton

Very impressive. Anyone wanna claim that shot?

[Mathdino]

Massclaim would drown scum. This game is pretty much in the bag.

[Mathdino]

If everyone claims and we have 3 PR claims, thats 3/9 conftown. If we get 4, we can work things out. I recommend popcorning. Disincentivises scum fakeclaims. Thoughts?

[Mathdino]

Bodyguard protects conftown vig, vig goes on organised killing spree. If not BG, we prob have a goon cop who can investigate among the VT claims. Roleblocker can do the same.
So yeah, in the bag.

[Mathdino]

Literally every other PR than IC can either investigate or aid in investigation. Even IF scum fakeclaim, we know any innos they receive are truthful.
Suppose there are 4 PRs. Not unlikely. We lynch a VT claim, vig shoots another, RB/cop/tracker checks yet another, we lynch the remaining VT, we're done within 2 nights.

[Mathdino]

Or his reads were right. It really does not matter at all. We can break the game.

[Mathdino]

I'm still for lynching Riddleton if he's not a PR.

YO RIDDLETON I POPCORN TO YOU.

[Mathdino]

Oh sorry I need to claim before I start popcorning.

I claim werewolf rolecop strongman ninja traitor.

[Mathdino]

Yep. Town has 2 PRs by default and since scum picked 'recruit traitor' as shown by the flip, scum must have at least 3 PRs.

Can someone check D1 for evidence of daytalk?

[Mathdino]

I mean town PRs. And yeah, town gets 2 by default, 1 more for every mod scum picks.

[Mathdino]

k I believe it solely because goon cop is gonna CC due to Riddle being the first to claim.

Popcorn?

[Mathdino]

i would declare v/la

but this game wins itself so it's not like i'm actually gonna have to be active

so yeah

[Mathdino]

I once forgot to shoot confirmed scum claiming my role as vig. I would not put it past Riddleton to have just completely derped.

The vig should claim immediately.

Scum is never gonna claim that if we popcorn. I'll look through the playerlist and decide who after.

[Mathdino]

randomidget
texcat

Mathdino

Riddleton - Cop
Alchemist21
wgeurts
Flubbernugget
Bicephalous Bob

Psyche

I'm cool with wgeurts claiming next but he appears to have gone MIA. Townreading everyone else except very slight townreads on texcat and Flubber.

[Mathdino]

If no one else claims PR, Riddleton is our confirmed cop. If someone else does claim PR, Riddleton should check him/her. And if someone claims tracker, track Riddleton.

All the while Psyche is shooting VTs.

[Mathdino]

Doesn't matter. There's only one scum left. If it's Riddleton, then every time he confirms someone as innocent we know they're innocent for sure. If it's not Riddleton, it's possible the remaining scum's not a goon.

Hey texcat I want you to claim

[Mathdino]

Yeah that's true. Though somehow I doubt scum would go for BP or JOAT.

Daytalk or rolecop is becoming likely.

I believe texcat most of all right now because her power is directly confirmable. If wgeurts claims PR I'm gonna have some issues.

[Mathdino]

randomidget -
texcat -

Mathdino

- IC
Riddleton - Cop
Alchemist21

wgeurts

- roleblocker
Flubbernugget - VT
Bicephalous Bob - Tracker

Psyche

- vig

I don't believe Riddleton. Besides, if scum chose 3 mods, the goon cop is necessarily useless because the last scum is a special of some sort.

Lynch Riddleton, vig texcat, roleblock midget, and track Alchemist. The problem is the scum JOAT so ifi t looks like there were shenanigans we can reconsider.

[Mathdino]

wtf why would you do that

[Mathdino]

oh you blocked riddleton

i think psyche's kill takes precedence, texcat

VOTE: Flubber

scum clearly doesn't have the JOAT, therefore they must have the bulletproof

lynch2win

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Riddleton

I feell ike scum might've not shot to make the roleblocker seem like a cop when it wasn't. I was thinking about this gambit yesterday but I didn't want to say anything.

It's just very likely scum didn't shoot. We should def check the massclaim tho.

[Mathdino]

randomidget - VT

texcat - roleblocker

Mathdino - IC

Riddleton - Goon Cop
Alchemist21 - VT
Flubbernugget - VT
Bicephalous Bob - Tracker

Psyche - vig

Riddleton is functionally a VT due to the fact that the last scum is confirmed PR, so we can lynch him and it'll be alright.

Roleblock randomidget.

Vig Flubber.

Track Alchemist.

Done.

[Mathdino]

Riddleton is the obv choice, just look at the D1 play. He barely even mentioned 2birds's name. ISO the flipped scum and him and you'll see what I was talking about earlier.

[Mathdino]

Yeah scum can't do the no killing gambit for long. Idk why they would. We basically have a confirmed town-win no matter what.

[Mathdino]

we pretty much won this game from D1, no offence to the scumteam

i think the problem was the fact that we were all used to each other so town's analysis abilities were way better than usual

[Mathdino]

gg tho

[Mathdino]

hey Wis do you have the dead/scum threads?

[Mathdino]

wgeurts: Weird early random vote discussion, hate the wagon analysis. The indignance around 80 is also pretty scummy IMO. 92 however actually saves him from that, I'm seeing it as consistent with town. Plus I'm cool with the ABR case. Townish scum or scummy town, take your pick. Basically unsure on this. Whatever my read is, it's rare and bloody.

Flubbernugget: No idea how Flubber's meta works, he needs to contribute more, but the changes of opinion and reevaluation look natural, so

medium-rare town.

texcat: Not playing her scumgame. She's either improved or meta is useless on her. Or both. Otherwise, weird associations with 2birds and wgeurts and Alchemist IMO, that we need to work out after we get a flip.

Rare town

for now.

Riddleton: Lynch the fuck out of this if 2birds flips scum. Every step of the way Riddleton appeared to try and start a new wagon to counteract any 2birds suspicion, all the while barely even interacting or giving reads on him. Strong association to be made here, and honestly, I find Riddleton scummier than 2birds.

Well done scum.

randomidget: Multiple town tells and mild townslips. You guys are gonna have to come up with damn good reasons later on if you want to lynch him.

Well done town.

Howl/Psyche: What the fuck is Psyche's play I don't even

mildly

town? I mean How's play was pretty town but Psyche is totally opaque. Wish I'd been here to interrogate. Get Psyche to explain his votes and reads tomorrow, pls ty.

Medium-well town

for now due to Howl's play and Psyche's not being inconsistent with town.

droog: This is the part where I'd just dole out a townread for ~~~reasons~~~ if I weren't IC (I don't know why I play differently as IC) but honestly I don't really know what to do here. Nothing stands out, it's pretty much just normal droog. I liked the Riddleton pushing, but slipping onto 2birds's wagon like that was really slimy. I also really like the Bob thing. So yeah, doling out a

medium-rare townread

but don't take my word on this.

Bob: Gut

medium townread

.

Alchemist: Nothing stands out in the first half of his ISO, I don't care about the self-meta since I literally asked him for it. Changing his mind on Howl is natural, and his latest play is pretty townish.

Medium-well townread

, don't lynch, don't understand the case, will ISO the mod last and look at basic wagon stuff.

ABR: Blegh, I see very little evidence of real scumhunting and the premature claim doesn't read as townish as I'd like. Plus IMO his reads are completely backwards and fairly unexplained,

please explain your reads list, ABR, one sentence per is cool

.

Medium scumread.

2birds: Alchemist push sucks, 345 is shitty logic, jumping on the Riddleton wagon was seemingly without purpose, and claim stalling especially when scum could have daytalk is really suspicious.

Medium-well scumread.

Why would you give an entire fucking reads list as conftown

lol'd

kinda confused as to why scum kept me alive

considering i literally guessed the entire team for the first time in my career

[Mathdino]

lol i never even considered it was a trap

d1 read was too strong

[Mathdino]

At this stage in the game, I townread Wgeurts, Newbie, Constantine and MathDino. Leaning scum on VictorDeAngelo and MalaKittens.

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

---

Victor

a) First off, we see Victor is quite persistent that people answer their own questions. The conversation between Victor and Acryon here, especially considering the sarcastic tone of the post, comes off as extremely awkward and strange to me. His defensive tone in this post this post is unwarranted, as he was under no suspicion whatsoever at the time.

b) The post on here reads as Victor trying to easily slide on the low-hanging fruit by voting wgeurts. The vote isn't pressure, but yet he doesn't provide any reasoning to back up his wgeurts vote. I don't like how he pushes a wagon by saying "All Aboard" without providing any reasoning for it. In this post, he outright refuses to provide reasoning, instead just posting fluff that the wagon will lead to 'Jelly and Ice Cream'. He later implies the vote was just a reaction test, which makes no sense whatsoever, and just looks like scum trying to back down from suspicion.

c) Post #65 also takes on a hyper-defensive tone, too. Points such as "I questioned why he wanted that specific information. There is a difference." are devoid of emotion and unlike, more sarcastic and joke-y, earlier play. The comment, 'That's a lot of guesswork there Acryon.', tries to passively shoot down Acryon's disapproval of Victor's play. Post #73 and #80 takes on a similar hyper-defensive tone, also, and continue the trend of one-line replies to humongous quotes, to give the false impression of activity whereas there's very little content in Victor's posts. In #80, as linked, he still refuses to interact with wgeurts.

d) Quite a bit of IIOA in here citing meaningless replies to genuine questions and issues. Posts such as 'I don't like #thispost', etc, are not helpful to the gamestate and are usually seen by scum trying to fit-in to the town, without participating much content. We see Victor declaring Mala, my other main scum suspect, as 'town because of opening posts'. What makes you think this? Can you explain in more detail?

e) In the same post, he still hasn't explained his initial wgeurts vote. Nice try with trying to say 'I don't like Wguerts 105. This post doesn't fit the play at all.', but you voted Wgeurts in #53. Obviously, something else has fuelled your reasoning for voting wgeurts, and I don't like you're trying to subtly imply that was your reasoning, especially since the post was made after you voted him in the first place. My theory is he made the wgeurts vote, and just bullshitted his way through it, inventing new reasoning for sticking with it in posts like this. It's a bit of cognitive dissonance. He never has, and I don't think he ever will, explain his

original

reasoning for voting him.

In a nutshell:
-Hyper-defensive play which I don't like
-Dodges his original wgeurts vote, cognitive dissonance with trying to believe it's still a viable wagon by inventing new reasoning for it 'oh this is scummy, yeah wgeurts is scum'. Spoiler alert: wgeurts isn't scum.
-Never really provides any content. His ISO is 90% bullshit.

Caught up.

Hm, so far wgeurts and randommidget are the most likely scum. Here's my case on the latter, as I promised earlier:-

Townie points:

1)I liked the comments by Rm in #71 through RQS, as I discussed earlier. I think his comments about 'Yes I am scum' could be town, reaction testing. A good way to get the ball rolling. If it's by scum, it could be signalling he's a traitor, which I believe another player said, which is why I'm not 100% sold this alone makes RM town.

Scum Points

1) I do not like the droog vote in #120. It seemed like a very opportunistic, and reactive vote to droog's post in #119, backed up by a weak 'fluff posting' explanation in #123. You say it's a 'misunderstanding' later on in #139, and you thought droog was referring people to vote for lurkers. You later say, perhaps for unrelated reasons, that the reasoning you used to vote for droog, 'Fluff posting', was based on a misunderstanding. Explain what misunderstanding that was in more detail, because it does not make sense to me. Why would one vote someone over fluff posting in the first place, and for two, what part of it was 'misunderstood' enough so that you unvoted? Slight AtE in #139 over 'Oh sorry I've been tired sorry for voting my mistake'. My takeaway is that I don't like Rm's interaction w/ droog here, and I find the vote, and quick retracting of such vote for arbitrary reasons suspicious.

2) Follows out from an unusual interaction with droog to an unusual interaction with ABR. Dislikes pre-flip associations, why? I don't think you've answered my question on that. That post, #199, is strangely worded inquiring ABR about the pre-flip associations, but then adding that as part of his passive vote on ABR. You ask a question and shut it off immediately by pushing it as scummy and not considering the other options, such as that figuring pre-flip associations isn't a bad idea.

In a nutshell

I like his posts during RQS, but:-
a) quick to jump on cases and for the wrong reasons
b) The impression I get from his quick-and-snappy comments and votyes is he sets himself up to vote for someone, for flawed reasons, so he can quickly unvote afterwards, or not garner attention after a mislynch with AtE ('Oh, I'm tired' etc) or just claim 'Oh it's a misunderstanding!' for seemingly irrelevant reasons.

Riddleton has a very distinct style of cases. I'm curious to see if you find these cases equally mechanical (without looking up his alignments in either).

[Mathdino]

honestly i think we didn't get lucky, it's just that we're all used to each other

i guarantee you that if the exact same players went at it again on any setup, scum would be destroyed

the randomidget and DGB wagon last game for example really hindered town when they were pretty much following their meta, we just didn't know it
meanwhile, riddleton was definitely off from last game and wgeurts caught onto ABR's scum meta