Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: T3

One of these days I'll be right. Going by the math

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: T3

One of these days I'll be right. Going by the math

Sounds like you two have history. Anything we should know about T3's town game? I trust that you'll be able to read them particularly well.. unless..

Given my limited experience, what I will say is that if you think T3 is definitely scum, they are probably town. If you think they might be scum, they are probably town. If you think they are town, contact mods, bc they have been hacked.

Not a huge fan of Dwlee, or SF right now. There is also a lot of ATE coming from Mewtaph's slot that I really don't like. Nothing is grabbing me hard yet though. May just be frazzled by the three quarters of the ELO of the game I just lost being present

UNVOTE:

[MargotRosa]

@Dwlee Sorry, I just read through page 3 properly lol. I didn't realise you had been conf towned by a conf town

[MargotRosa]

What happened there though. That was fukn weird as

[MargotRosa]

I'm going to do a dive now that we're a few pages in.

What I'll say on the T3 thing is that I honestly don't think the fake claim means anything. Last game I finished, T3 very clearly soft-claimed doc d1. It came out at elo that they weren't softclaiming Doc, and actually just expected people to be familiar with a strategy that played out in a previous newbie game that none of the players had been in.

[MargotRosa]

Ok, my read list:

Town:

Roden (n0 inno)

Town lean:

Dwlee99:

Roden says n0 innocent, so let's go with that. I still don't have any clue what the hell was going on with you and page 3. I'm happy to drop it, given the inno, but post game would like to know what this was all about.

Datisi

Fuck, this Datisi/Datsi thing is screwing my brain. With the DPs as well, I’m getting some serious twins from season 2 of Korra vibes.

VOTE: 17 would be a galaxy brain early play by scum. I don't think scum comes out the gate swinging analysis that quickly. Then again, I don't as Town, so who knows. I don't have a sense of Datisi's meta, having not played with them before, so I'm going with gut here and saying they are Town.

Null:

Three people with ISOs that are too shallow to get a good read on

Not_Mafia

• Claimed Miller

Aristeia

• Not much to go off rn, but want so badly to put in my Town reads for username, which may or may not be an indirect reference to my fave Greek tragedy cycle

Innocent Villager

• Similarly empty ISO

Chaos:

Also had a mostly empty ISO, though I will say 18 is a weird early read in a way that Datisi's wasn't? Like, Datisi at least seemed to have posted reads early because they had hard reads to go off, whereas it feels like Chaos is either jumping at shadows on page 1. It comes across to me as a far scummier version of the former, but not enough to drop further down the reads list.

ssbm_Kyouko

Has come out swinging in about four different directions in very rapid succession. Unclear if trigger happy or

Nullscum:

T3:

Very hestitant with this one, so putting in a separate category lol. The Miller/Mason/Encrypter stuff is very strange, but also probably not out of T3's Town range. Just putting T3 here so it's on notice, and will come back to the slot later.

Scum lean:

Datsi:

Of the twins, Datsi seems the scummiest. Their posts are short, heavy hitters, and their reads are very shallow. Their densest post was 107, which only contributed an explanation of how a role modifier works. Otherwise, they have voted five times, for four different slots, within 19 hours. Their explanations are about as thin as they come 78 114 128 (all with no context, one literally just 'we gottem bois' which is almost immediately walked back).

Salsabil Faria:

A lot of ISO, particularly responses to Mewtaph’s pressure reads like nothing fluff. Mewtaph calls it stepping on his toes, but it seems less viscous than that. I guess if I had to put a word to it, it would be pufferfishing. Filling with air with nothing backing it up. Hard, because again, this doesn't seem out of line with their meta, so it's hard to say one way or another

Mewtaph

I haven't liked this slot's play since page 1, and it hasn't changed. 22 is yet another galaxy brain take, and 39 and 48 give me really bad vibes. In addition, they sheeped Dwlee's vote on innocentvillager 60, again with no context. The explanation, I'm sure, would be to apply pressure on a quiet slot, but I just don't get this playstyle. Is it just apply pressure haphazardly over and over and hope someone accidentally admits that they are scum?

[MargotRosa]

Honestly, putting this reads list together was a lot more difficult than in previous games. Usually, there is a clear narrative to follow (as in Newbie 2076, where things rolled out naturally from T3's opening gambit). There isn't really one here; everything is so zig zaggy and without clear purpose.

Being open, I am not good with meta, and reading people, which is why I'm so uncertain right now. I am a political economist, and a statistician, and I work best when I have data. That's been as true on this site as it has been in my real life.

As we get closer to the deadline, if there isn't much more coherence to everything, I'm going to reveal my role purely to get some data, and get some coherency to the narrative so that we're all on track again.

For now:
VOTE: Mewtaph

[MargotRosa]

Roden, can you confirm the n0 inno on Dwlee? I am taking it as written, but don't understand the mechanics of how that would work, so just wanted to double check

[MargotRosa]

I do think your reads list comes from a town mind set though Margot.

Oh shit. In that case, invert my read on Dwlee. Sorry, I TR'd them solely because I thought you had conf towned them

[MargotRosa]

T3's generally low activity is also just pinging me in general right now. I know he tends to lay low when he gets pressure as scum, but fights and hyper posts when he's town. He's even said similarly in past games.

On this, I just don't think their energy is allegiance indicative. I think they are pretty low energy generally. They were a Town PR in another game I played with them recently and their energy was at about the same level, before and after they had outed themself

[MargotRosa]

He's even said similarly in past games.

haven't heard this one before, mind linking the source?

i'm open to the idea of t3 being scum, hell i sure don't townread him, but the resons that kyouko had for pushing him were bad >_>

I really should have named T3's category "???????", because I can't place the slot with any sense of coherency. Even here, right, T3 is less likely to be scum than Kyouko based on Kyouko's ISO. But I don't know that that means T3 should be higher on the read list, because their ISO is pinging me in every cardinal direction.

I think mewtaph and Sbf is an A or B situation, where one is scum and the other isn't.

I think Kyouko is likely scum if T3 isn't, but not necessarily the other way around...

[MargotRosa]

He's even said similarly in past games.

haven't heard this one before, mind linking the source?

i'm open to the idea of t3 being scum, hell i sure don't townread him, but the resons that kyouko had for pushing him were bad >_>

Also I hard lurk through pressure as scum.

Large Normal 235.

T3 hard lurked through everything, pressure or otherwise, after d1 in Newbie 2076

[MargotRosa]

why

don't play the fool with me, you know what you did

Yeah I do :/
VOTE: t3

that's proof of scum guilt
VOTE: t3
we gottem bois

All threads have daytalk

VOTE: T3

Someone explain it to me

T3 claimed miller mason with N_M, and also claimed N_M was an encryptor. My understanding is that, generally speaking, Mason chat is usually only open at night, so they'd need an encryptor to talk. However, all chats are open all the time, according to the setup, so an encryptor is a pointless role that does nothing. As a result, people say that because T3 must be lying, T3 is therefore scum.

The conversation after that is mostly about whether or not T3 lying is within town range or not

[MargotRosa]

it's true i have a n0 inno on roden

We all have a n0 inno on Roden lol 2

Roden's n0 inno on Dwlee was a joke, and not real. So Dwlee is not conf town

[MargotRosa]

did t3 did something outside of usual-t3 into scum-t3 territory? if it's a yes, can someone explain it to me pls i wanna join in on the fun

Yes he claimed Miller mason with N_M who he says is an encryptor in a daytalk-active game

I thought it was a joke?

Which is why the wagon died

[MargotRosa]

ssbm_Kyouko
Has come out swinging in about four different directions in very rapid succession. Unclear if trigger happy or

was this a stylistic choice or did you forget to complete the read on this slot?

@margot

I honestly don't remember, but probably the former. When I write these out, I'm jumping between all the slots in my head, and it's very easy to go get derailed by one train of thought by another. I also have ADHD lol

[MargotRosa]

I don't understand this rl at all... On what angle me and

Mew

are both scums??

I said later on that it seemed like it could be a one or the other situation. I don't think you are both scum.

[MargotRosa]

Read-list (in no particular order):

Roden

Datisi

datsi

T3

N_M
Aris
CO
iv

Getting a feeling that there is at least one scum in this list:

MR
Mew
Dwlee

ssbm

Wait, kyo is conf scum for you?

[MargotRosa]

Why datsi? I think they made some pretty good posts which I believe was coming from town atm.

what posts of datsi did you like? i don't think i saw anything super townie

It's not actually super townie yet but like

T3

said, 74 likely comes from town!

Gamma

as they made weird posts as town more than as scum.
Then in 78, I kind of get where they're coming from but only agree about you from that list atm.
191, 203 understandable from 78. Overall I'm getting the lay back/relax vibe from them which I think town indicative for them, as scum they appear to be more solvy from my experience with scum!them.

I'm a bit disoriented by these posts. You seem to be scum reading me, but also not scum reading me based on this post. There are just enough inconsistencies in your posts to twig my spider senses

[MargotRosa]

Like, Dwlee and I are both in your second from the bottom category. Why the inconsistency there?

[MargotRosa]

Sorry I've been AWOL over the last day. Sleep routine has been utterly fucked. I'll post something good tomorrow, promise

[MargotRosa]

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

[MargotRosa]

I was very clear about why I don't like IV. I wanted a claim out of them. Maybe e-1 wasn't the best idea in the world, but it actually got them talking, and (albeit briefly) actually got pressure mounting. Which only works if people maintain it, rather than backing off.

I've been very clear that I need data to read, because I have not been playing on this site for long enough, nor am I nearly neurotypical enough to effectively read tone in an online forum. I'm genuinely annoyed that everyone backed off there so easily, and honestly frustrated that suddenly everyone is town reading someone who has been well described as scummy, by me and others.

[MargotRosa]

Like, I don't know how everyone else is playing this game, but I want to get scum reading off something that isn't just casual back and forth conversation and some person getting a gut read based on whether someone used punctuation the way they normally do or not

[MargotRosa]

Honestly more concerned at everyone backing off as acting in a way I'd consider scummy right now.

[MargotRosa]

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

[MargotRosa]

Like, are we scum hunting, or are just reacting. Is playing this game proactively something people don't respect. Lord knows it works a lot better that waiting for someone to accidentally post a message from the scum PT in the main thread

[MargotRosa]

To be clear, I'm not frustrated that people are FoS'ing me. I'm frustrated that people seem so resistant to getting a player up against a wall d1

[MargotRosa]

were you aware that NM is a compulsive hammerer? and how do you feel about it now, knowing that he is? i don't see any remorse from you for your actions despite other people having pointed out NM's tendencies

this all needs to be answered at some point whenever you have time

I was, but hadn't thought about it, and honestly forget N_M was in this game. I have already admitted, in retrospect, that e-1 was a bad idea

[MargotRosa]

I don't really get the T3 scum reads. I'm trying, because I get a lot of people are on that train right now, but I don't see T3 acting any scummier than in games I've played with Town T3 at all. Aloof, solvey in a slightly detached, floating in and out kind of a way. That's T3 up and down.

I'm not moving my vote off IV. That's by far and a way the strongest scum read I have right now, not because they didn't post until late, but because the character of those late posts scream Scum. The AtE is cream frosting at this point

[MargotRosa]

I'm doing the rounds with my games, but I'll be back tonight. Last two days have been a mess, and partner in a bad way. Making them a cake and spending some time with them while they are recovering. Setting aside a chunk of time before bed tonight to go through games

[MargotRosa]

I've read through again. Here's my stance.

I stand by my Mewtaph and IV scum reads. I asked for a claim because that is my understanding about what happens at e-1. I didn't specifically angle for IV to be killed n1, but if they were, that would have been fine with me, because I think they are scum, and given the setup is not revealed, the claim would likely not have meant anything anyway.

I still think T3 is likely not scum. I also Town Read the heck out of Datisi. I think the fact that Mewtaph and IV both voted for me is pretty scum indicative in my book, and I'm feeling more and more confident that I've solved two of the scum roles.

This is especially given the fact that all of IV's reasons for voting back at me are bizarre when you actually stop and think about it for five seconds. Like, asking for a claim is scum indicative? Trying to vote out someone you think is scum is scum indicative? What isn't scum indicative in your book IV? Anyone voting for anyone is scum. Is the only Townie in this game N_M?

[MargotRosa]

Your posts are so weird to read @Mewtaph. Like, still think you're probably scum, but even given that, it's bizarre how much you seem to be leaning into "Bond villain doing Freudian psychoanalysis and stroking a big white cat"

[MargotRosa]

...And if not, then why exactly is their attempt to try and get a better read on you scummy? ...

This is such a mischaracterisation. I don't think they are scum because they are trying to work out if I'm scum. I feel they are scum because, as well as all reasons listed previously, as soon as the pressure dipped, they immediately jumped on the two players who were applying pressure on them (that is, myself and T3).

[MargotRosa]

We all need to calm down a bit.

[MargotRosa]

I'm sorry, I feel like I started that

[MargotRosa]

I got very emoitionally worked up about the derailed wagon on IV, and I shouldn't have. I think the game has cascaded a bit since that point, and I've seen what that can do to even a Town working fantastically well together up until that point

[MargotRosa]

Here's where I'm at. I have a read on Mewtaph, Datsi and InnocentVillager at the moment. How do you feel about those slots Roden?

[MargotRosa]

Is the N_M a policy elimination, or is there more stuff like T3's vote which seems to have further justification?

[MargotRosa]

i notice now that margot didn't address the things i sent her way and is overall still being largely underwhelming so

VOTE: margot

preferred vote still t3 but i don't feel like i'm getting anything done vanity wagoning there

Is this what you're talking about?

This is especially given the fact that all of IV's reasons for voting back at me are bizarre when you actually stop and think about it for five seconds. Like, asking for a claim is scum indicative? Trying to vote out someone you think is scum is scum indicative? What isn't scum indicative in your book IV? Anyone voting for anyone is scum. Is the only Townie in this game N_M?

this feels a bit dishonest. like it feels like iv's reasons for scumreading her, but dumbed down and out of context to the point of being nonsensical.

i would also like for you to talk more about your iv scumread other than "yep, still scum". and why is iv/mew voting you scum!indicative for you? do you genuinely believe that two scum got so scared of you they're tying themselves together in order to push you?

ok i see there's also the "iv went after you and t3" which uh, hasn't iv been vocally defending t3 for like, a long time now?

bottom of page 35, need a break bc brain hurt, be back in a bit.

My reasoning is in 526, and was expanded upon in later posts. IV came into the game late, and made reads that were completely out of step with the rest of the game. It looked to me like Scum coming in late and making reads based on what they wanted from the game state rather than what was actually going on in the game. Everything that has happened since then has cemented that view in my mind.

Also, T3 is Town. Sorry.

[MargotRosa]

Can we all give a decent vibe check on where Town's head is at? I don't think IV is happening. T3 is Town, and I'm not voting that slot. I am Town. Mew is still on my scumdar. I still don't like Datsi, but can respect that voting that slot will look like I'm just boomeranging their vote back at them.

In the words of the benevolent head overlord, show me what you got

[MargotRosa]

Going to need to take a couple days V/LA. Apologies. Five year long relationship just ended out of nowhere and for no discernible reason

[MargotRosa]

Can we get one more vote on T3? We need to have enough time to pick someone else in case he claims a believable PR.

For the sake of progression, and because I'll find it easier to relax if I'm taking a break over a night phase.

VOTE: T3

e - 1. I am certain they are Town

[MargotRosa]

UNVOTE: T3

[MargotRosa]

Pankicked because I remembered that N_M is in the game and would totally hammer. T3 is at e-1 for all intents and purposes

[MargotRosa]

Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV

She's been corrected on it already.

I was also less cautious because I thought IV was probably scum, whereas T3 is Town

[MargotRosa]

Also, crisis averted, relationship saved, and, shock to everyone, four months of hard lockdown are awful. Will still be a bit checked out for a couple days, but everything will be ok

[MargotRosa]

Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV

She's been corrected on it already.

I was also less cautious because I thought IV was probably scum, whereas T3 is Town

why'd you vote him then :\

I spelled it out in my original post.

Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV

She's been corrected on it already.

I was also less cautious because I thought IV was probably scum, whereas T3 is Town

why'd you vote him then :\

Can we get one more vote on T3? We need to have enough time to pick someone else in case he claims a believable PR.

For the sake of progression, and because I'll find it easier to relax if I'm taking a break over a night phase.

VOTE: T3

e - 1. I am certain they are Town

If a claim was going to get everyone to leave T3 be, then that was what needed to happen to actually get an elimination wagon happening on someone else.

[MargotRosa]

I'm back properly, and I have the energy and the the passion to actually spell out all the reasons IV is scum.

IV drops in 336, clearly has only caught up enough to have worked out they had three votes and that's it. They park a vote on Datsi (338), well outside of RVS, but four hours later they indicate they don't have a reads list 395.

I would be interested for someone to do a meta dive on all their posts prior to 570. The ones with anything even approaching substance are all but non-existent, and I have serious doubts about the ones that claim to have substance.

Before we get into 570, I would also like to make a brief detour to point out that my read on IV in 526 is basically the same read that Datisi gives in 553. If you don't like my vote, don't like theirs either. Which you won't do, obviously, because Datisi is basically town lock for everyone at this point.

So then 570.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

So first off, it isn't actually true that it had been less than 24 hours. This post was made

just over

24 hours after the last one. I felt like my autism was probably showing a bit too much to hold onto this as a tell, but I really didn't like it at the time. Less than 24 hours works better for AtE purposes than "24 hours ago" imo, so it was a slight scum tell. Especially when the gap between the posts previous and the posts made in this block was just over 18 hours, and in the post he says it had been 16. Like, minor inconsistencies, but it just got into my head a bit that there were enough little lies that had just enough of an emotional justification to be indicative of something.

Aside from anything else, though, this is a wild post to come from someone who has refused to give reads given the string of posts from 395 to 416, in which he spends over 20 minutes posting on this forum, responding to other people's play and giving slight reads one way or the other. This part here, "Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this." is particularly telling, imo. The only adequate response to Datisi would be reads. Instead, they get mad about Datisi expecting any reads in the first place.

Why? Because they have no reads. Because they know who scum is, and because if you are Town and have 20 minutes to read through a game, your priority is finding scum, and if you are Scum and have 20 minutes to read through a game, your priority is making sure everyone thinks you are Town.

That's why there are so many posts in that 20 minute window.

That's why the posts are full of inane nonsense.

That's why 24 hours after entering the game properly, IV still had no real reads, and had instead spent what little time he had on the forums to try and endear himself to other players rather than read people's alignment.

IV is scum. I throw the book straight at his face and say good day.

VOTE: IV

[MargotRosa]

votecount 1.14

T3 (5) :

Salsabil Faria ; Roden ; Aristeia ; Datsi ; Datisi

Exe-2

Innocentvillager (2) :

ChaosOmega ; Not_Mafia

MargotRosa (2) :

innocentvillager ; Mewtaph

ssbm_Kyouko (2) :

Dwlee99 ; T3

Not_Mafia (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Not voting (1) :

MargotRosa

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-01 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

announcements

Searching a replacement for Mewtaph

flavor

Spoiler:

There can be no hope in this Hell. No hope at all...

There is no reason why scum!iv doesn't vote for T3 in order to get t3 elimed over himself cuz yesterday was basically between t3/iv

putting T3 at E-1 is essentially hammering as NM is off the wagon.

I think Margot is obvtown since IV's reaction to her voting him was crazy

T3 makes the most sense imo as the bus vote on the initial IV wagon

I'm still not sure about T3. I'm not going to stand in the way of it, because I'm out of *hard* reads right now, but this just reads too much like WIFOM. Like, if T3 is scum, why in the world

don't

they vote each other as contingency?

[MargotRosa]

Also, throw my full support behind the N_M kill by vig. I just got out of a game that Town would probably have won had we policy eliminated N_M before elo.

[MargotRosa]

I'm sorry I've been absent. I haven't slept in three days. Will have a good look in the morning

[MargotRosa]

I hate how unreliable my energy bursts to be good at this game are.

I've had a brief read through, and T3 is probably an ok D2 elimination

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: T3

Will go nuts on an ISO dive at some point, hopefully during the night, to analyse IVs reads/votes and things, with the caveat that this is the part I'm usually not great at. I can get one or two people, but finding the last couple is impossible

[MargotRosa]

Should have counted. I think that was hammer. Whatevs. Time to sleep

[MargotRosa]

I'm going to point this out, because it's a source of some confusion, though it will probably make me look worse in context.

When I first started seriously scum reading IV, it wasn't my longer post, but earlier at 526. They were at 2 votes (out of a necessary 7 to eliminate). I maintained that, up until the initial e-1 (which I did not handle well, and may have led to a quick elimination which I did not realise, due to being new, and not really thinking about the effect of the N_M slot), and then beyond that, easing off a bit only because I was aware that I had done something stupid, and which I shouldn't have, and stressing that I had overcomplicated and overthought the situation.

When I did push again in 1192, it was only once I felt confident enough to really spell out my reasons for voting the way that I did in clear terms. You are free to meta dive me; you can see the same habits of overthinking and overcomplication, which I historically have overcome with long, well thought out posts that I make when I have decided to vote for a slot, and to change that vote only if it is clear that the rest of the village won't join me (which would be stubborn and unhelpful).

The mathematical proof that a given strategy was bad in Newbie 2076 to vote (incorrectly) has been referenced by myself in a few games, but you can also look at the following post for an example of the same thing from the same game in which I use a similar style of deduction to, coincidentally, also vote out scum on d1:

So here’s one significant part of why I am convinced that Strange is the last scum, specifically the interactions between them and LQ on d1.

Rereading, their exchanges read so much like scum becoming increasingly frustrated by their partner and the overt scum tells he was giving off.

The dynamic that played out here, if it is between two Scum, is a pretty common pattern I’ve seen IRL. Obviously don’t have the experience of forum format to say whether or not it carries over, but I imagine it would to some extent.

The dynamic in question is when someone is when you have a scum pair, and one of the two is clearly giving off massive scum tells. Even if it’s not necessarily crystal clear for town, it’s clear for the other scum, because they know to look for the tells in the first place.

Generally, when I’ve seen it, it plays out in two phases. At first, there is genuine attempts to subtly deflect away from the scumminess of their partner. It’s always fraught, because if you lean in too hard, you become an obvious target for elimination in later days, so it has to be subtle. Where it really starts to show itself is not even necessarily the person doing the deflection, but in the perceptible differences in the way that their partner interacts with them.

In a d1 that was notable for just how wildly defensive LQ was getting about even the slightest hint of a scum read on him, basically the only slot that did not almost immediately spur instant defensiveness was from Astra/Strange.

Here's some posts, with some brief notes. Hope you can piece together the narrative I'm presenting here. Feeling a bit under the weather, so best I can do under the circumstances. Far from exhaustive. Tried to leave out stuff that could count but may also be very dubious.

Examples of defensiveness in response to:
Roden – 36 38 39
T3 – 125 173
Alstro – 132 146
Me – 144 156 317
Me and T3 – 150
Defensiveness tell in general (which had not been brought up by Astra/Strange slot) – 154 182

LQ responding in a less heated way to Astra/Strange presenting guarded SRs of him:
59 60 68

Back and forth between Strange and LQ (one example of a few, not much evidence of this happening with LQ and other players):
285 292 298 328

Mopre exchanges oin which he and Strange are, on some level (intended or not) backing one another up:
253 284

Literally first time LQ says something that can be even construed as testy towards the Astra/Strange slot is 342 when he tells Strange never to vote for a slot just for info.

Incidentally, is 342 a smoking gun? Does NP stand for night play, and LQ thought he was messaging in scum chat?) Strange’s response 344 is maybe the most obviously irritated I’ve seen them in game (though entirely possibly because it was a brisque way to address them irrespective of whether they were doing it to divert attention from LQ.)

LQ does vote for Strange in 349, but I don’t buy it tbh. It’s a really half-hearted dig.

I know this is very based in emotiion, but that was literally how we tagged LQ in the first place. Makes sense that their interactions might also reveal who his team member was.

You can see similar thought processes in the neighbourhood PT that I was neighbourizer of in Lemon Demon.

I worked as a director, not an actor, and am a political economist rather than a politician. I don't act, I think methodically and I nail slots though induction when I have enough information and data to do so. My failings are always, universally, because I'm not particularly good at the emotional, topsy turvy nature of the games I'm in. In Newbie 2076, it was an inability to understand that Roden had clearly worked out that he could beat me just by never giving me anything substantive to work with data wise. In Lemon Demon, it was because I got very emotional partway through the game, and Titus did a fabulous job of filling exactly the kind of supportive friend role that was required to make me emotionally incapable of scum reading her.

If you think I'm scum, then fine. I'm not sure that I'd blame you, and it would 100% have been on me. I do think that a few of the posts over the last couple of days have been off, and I'll put some reads together soon, which are all worth considering. I also would invite you to consider the fact that I voted T3 d2 only after repeatedly Town reading them, and was open about my vote coming from a place of 'this wagon has built up, I can't really think properly under these circumstances, and despite Town reading T3 I don't have much else to offer in terms of reads and I could well be wrong about this given my track record of doing very well d1 and failing miserably in my reads in days subsequent to that one'.

That's about as much defence of my play that is probably worth making honestly, and can't think of anything to say on the matter beyond answering specific questions that aren't answered here.

[MargotRosa]

Just realised the quoted post is another exmaple of my incorrect deductions rather than correctly deducing LQ was scum lol. I really need to get better strategies

[MargotRosa]

Datsi, why do you think the T3 wagon is pure? And why do you think IV's reactions to my scum reads are theatre?

Is the latter literally just a possibility? Do you have concrete reasons for either, but particularly the former? Or is it just gut?

Honestly, I still get really bad vibes from your slot, and coming in for a few posts with some short statements with quite literally nothing included to justify them is continuing to rub me the wrong way

[MargotRosa]

It's probably a meta thing, but it's been triggering my scumdar significantly seeing Datsi's playstyle amounting to almost exclusively post unjustified statements that appear to be mostly gut instinct

I'm sure I've posted this before, but some classic examples from this game include 78 114 116 125 267 269 492 (which is extra funny, because you note it's the basic bitch version of your original post, but tracks completely with the posts you've been making otherwise) 570 627 634 684 (in which you just straight up say you don't want to explain yourself) 690 (which is part of a few posts in which you are slightly, and in a slightly odd way, protective of IV's slot [see also 711) and then skipping ahead rather than just linking to half of your posts this game, 1386 1390

This posts which have content just have no justification behind them. They are just statements you are making, mostly about unprovable gut instincts, which is fine, but only if you can justify them.

Idk, I can't tell if I'm reading too much into this. Just has been bugging me since d1

[MargotRosa]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

Including Margot?

I already said I rethought that

VOTE: datsi

i feel the most confident about this slot flipping red

i think last one is probably salsa but that is less confident

If you reread eod1 - I think its quite clear Datsi approached it in a very agenda'd manner.

I'm beginning to think your push on me isn't in good faith, given you haven't reconsidered it once despite the flips, meanwhile in mini 2226 you were extremely tepid after Meg flipped town
VOTE: aristeia
I hadn't considered that meta point until I went to write this, I think it's actually pretty solid.

What happened in mini 2226?

[MargotRosa]

what are the odds the solve is something stupid like salsa/margot?

I mean, it isn't that pairing, but it's definitely something odd. This whole game is sending me for a spin similar to my Newbie 2076, where we eliminated scum d1 and then the final scum was Roden who had just been the Towniest Town who ever Towned.

Datsi/SSBM/Ari/Salsa has scum in, is my initial impressions from the very brief skim I've done

[MargotRosa]

How likely is the universe in which Ari/Datsi is SvS playing for an eliminate one, the other coasts to victory, type situation?

[MargotRosa]

Because otherwise, the pair in my head is one of Ari/Datsi on one side, and Salsa/Datisi on the other, and I don't know that any of these situations are more likely in my head

[MargotRosa]

I’ll dive into my Salsa TR more later maybe but she felt like she did in Lemon Demon D1.

Maybe she is speaking a bit more? It's hard to say, bc most of my interactions with her after d1 were in the neighbourhood I set up, after I had lock Towned her

[MargotRosa]

My head is spinning a bit. I'm going to log off, clear my head, hang out with partner, and come back with fresher eyes in the arvo

[MargotRosa]

Swamped with work, and getting a bunch of archival material sorted, so I've been very absent last day and a half, so I apologise

Is there a way we can do mass claim on vig, rather than mass claim in general? Like, if there is Town power worth hiding, maybe claiming whether or not you are vig rather than any role beyond VT is the good middle ground?

[MargotRosa]

I thought Enchant was the vig given N_M was shot over T3 - seemed like a shot coming from someone that missed the context of the wagons, also if he was a vig or potentially an IC vig with (?) modifiers he's super confirmable and wouldn't give a fuck about hammering IV with his first post lmao. I could see Gypyx putting in a wild role like that and giving scum the 2 different finder abilities to trick them into thinking the IC and Vig are different players.

Or maybe Datisi given his reaction to the N_M kill *shrug*

If this is actually true, then maybe mass claim is not necessarily a good thing? I'm trying to roll things over in my head a bit and work out what logically makes sense for Town...

Ok:

Case 1) IC is also Vig, no other Power Roles -> Mass claim is good for Town. Scum kills Enchant either way, and we don't have to worry about someone claiming something silly at Melo

Case 2) IC is also Vig, other Town Power Roles -> Mass claim is good for Town for reasons above, and because we gain the benefits of the additional PR on the following day, unless the other Power Role is something game breaking, and keeping them off Scum's radar is better for Town. I doubt this is the case, unless there is a ridiculous Scum Power Role we don't know about. Either way, one would imagine we'd have revealed something about either of them at this point. So, on balance, I think still good for Town.

Case 3 and 4) IC and Vig are different -> Actually, this basically amounts to the same thing as case 2. Whoever isn't targetted by scum is solid, and useful final day

Ok, I feel alright about mass claim if everyone else does, unless I'm missing something crucial here.

[MargotRosa]

I guess it just comes down to the likelihood of having a Town PR that is more useful than an IC, and I don't think that's likely

[MargotRosa]

I guess the only other consideration is the fact that Scum don't currently know who vig is, and this is the only way to let them know. Like, for Town to win, if we don't kill Scum today, we still have to go through at least two Melos depending on how many Scum are on the Scum team to win, and if we reveal Vig now, we likely lose our last conf Town (unless there's another IC lol) on the second last day.

[MargotRosa]

I still think I'm in favour of mass claim, if everyone else is.

[MargotRosa]

I also think it might be for the best if we all cool it on the PR hunt stuff - I think at this stage enough has been said, and we are quickly straying into 'further discussion on the topic can only help scum' territory

[MargotRosa]

I changed my mind. I was inspecting Datsi and I think my read was misplaced. I was TRing him for a couple of specific posts that looked like crumbs but if I ignore those and look at him as a whole (thanks Koba) I feel like I'm looking at scum. There's not really any drive here. There are some deeply charged posts directed right at me, just like there were in OMB. There's also a lot of suspicion being cast around at just about anyone.

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

I noticed this post 630 and it didnt feel right. His explanation is that he was sheeping her because she had a good point and wanted to see how Aristea would react, and that he wasnt a fan of what he saw. Initially I was TRing Datsi for this post. When I do the work though, there is nothing Aristea says or does in reaction to Datsi's vote. She makes 2 posts, both in response to Datisi. Neither address his vote. There's been no reaction. This feels like the classic "It was just a RT and I got something out of it (I swear)" that scum is wont to say when challenged on a suspicious play. I think he's just making it up.

I also think he's been softing something that is not vig, which is why I'm asking for massclaim today. Specifically I want Datsi to claim, but I didnt want to rouse his suspicion.

There's another post of his that I'm inclined to believe is likely wine specifically for me:

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

He knows that I know that this is exactly the kind of post scum!Gamma makes about his partner. There's a possibility Margot has a more useful PR than IV and that Gamma and Margot worked together to counter Margot's wagon, and that it ended up with a town-led IV wagon. It's also possible that Margot is a victim of circumstance here and scum!Gamma would have made this post about any towny with a wagon to WIFOM me. I intend to review Margot more deeply should Datsi flip scum.

For now, I want to lim here, and I want a claim
VOTE: Datsi

I feel comfortable backing this

VOTE: Datsi

I also think it's worth saying that I feel pretty confident that Ari is Town. She's been Town reading me all game, which is not Town indicative in itself, but read in combo with the following quoted post, it kind of necessitates Scum!Ari deciding at game start that she is going to buddy up to me as a strategy.

I'm still not sure about T3. I'm not going to stand in the way of it, because I'm out of *hard* reads right now, but this just reads too much like WIFOM. Like, if T3 is scum, why in the world don't they vote each other as contingency?

If T3 is town, why does IV not vote him and let NM hammer rather than take the fall himself?

It's not the most outlandish idea in the world, especially given the fact that I've been pretty susceptible to that kind of thing in past games, but we haven't played together before, and so it only makes sense if she'd done a deep meta dive on me, a player who has been on the site for all of a couple of months to see if a specific strat would work on me. I just don't think it's likely, and so the only explanation that makes sense to me is that she is Town.

Either that, or I'm falling for the same buddy-buddy strat three games in a row. And I doubt it

[MargotRosa]

That's e-1 btw

[MargotRosa]

With respect to why I almost certainly overreacted after my e-1 on IV, I was responding to the following posts, which are varying shades of 'that looks scummy'.

I was honestly more frustrated that people were backing off the wagon completely, and was probably avoiding blaming myself for it.

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

fun fact, that is the third time someone called me Darius on this site
also stop it

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

i usually hate using the word, but this actually feels a bit opportunistic, especially with n_m in game. were you suddenly fine with ending the day?

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Explain please....

i need to go eat, i'll read the rest later

first thought is that there's scum on iv's wagon regardless of his own alignment, but i'll see later

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

Yeah same, I think it's TvT between

iv

and

Datisi

.
What do you think about

T3

and

MR

's vote on

iv

? I'm always paranoid about

T3

,

MR

's putting them E-1 not liking it, on the other hand

Aris

also vote

iv

which I don’t know if it’s buss or not.... My brain will explode anytime soon!

Sooo that flashwagon happened and I'm reading IV as pretty hard town after that.

Yeah same, I think it's TvT between

iv

and

Datisi

.
What do you think about

T3

and

MR

's vote on

iv

? I'm always paranoid about

T3

,

MR

's putting them E-1 not liking it, on the other hand

Aris

also vote

iv

which I don’t know if it’s buss or not.... My brain will explode anytime soon!

MR's vote is a lot worse than T3's.

[MargotRosa]

I also don;t quite understand whether you are scum reading either just me, or datsi and me. At various points in your post you seem to jump between the two.

On first brush, other than what I said above, I think that if you want to chalk the whole thing up to theatre, then surely IV spending less time defending against my push, but focussing on Datsi's should take suspicion off of me?

At various points in your post, which I had some trouble following, you seem to be going in multiple directions, and basically weave a story about a wagon on Town nearly succeeding but ultimately being derailed by a wagon pushed heavily by Scum on another Scum because of the theatricality which plays out one way, but then plays out in a different way, in which Scum focussing their attention on a player A is scummy for A, but also Scum giving very little time to player A is also scummy for A.

May I also point out that, the d1 wagon on Town player which I played a big part in derailing got up and succeeded again the following day, which I was explicitly against on d2

[MargotRosa]

Just did some light rereading to understand 806 better as I'm fairly confident Datsi is scum and am wondering whether Margot is town or scum.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I started around here. This is the readslist that is soon to be followed by Margot E-1ing IV. I figured the wagon on Margot would start around here but it actually doesnt come for a while.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

553 is around where the IV wagon takes off. Datisi starts a push, followed by Roden, Aristea, T3, and Margot. I think from context that at the time of 553, Dwlee and Datisi were already voting IV.

VOTE: innocentvillager

you are so silly datisi

if you want me to vote iv you need but ask

VOTE: iv

i would do anything for you

VOTE: innocentvillager

VOTE: InnocentVillager

That's e-1. What's your role?

Margot puts IV to E-1. The request for a claim doesn't feel natural but from what I understand Margot is not neurotypical and I'm willing to chock the tone up to that.

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

But looking at this post, IV singles out 2 people: Datisi and Margot. He probably spends about 80% of his post focused on Datisi and 20 on Margot. While Datisi has the more substantive read and Margot's vote is clearly easy to push as scummy, IV chooses to focus Datisi. This is something that indicates to me that possibly Margot is scum, because of how IV treated her in comparison to Datisi, who seems to be town.

I was very clear about why I don't like IV. I wanted a claim out of them. Maybe e-1 wasn't the best idea in the world, but it actually got them talking, and (albeit briefly) actually got pressure mounting. Which only works if people maintain it, rather than backing off.

I've been very clear that I need data to read, because I have not been playing on this site for long enough, nor am I nearly neurotypical enough to effectively read tone in an online forum. I'm genuinely annoyed that everyone backed off there so easily, and honestly frustrated that suddenly everyone is town reading someone who has been well described as scummy, by me and others.

Honestly more concerned at everyone backing off as acting in a way I'd consider scummy right now.

these are Margot's reactions to the counter push on her. She doesnt name any names here, and I dont think she follows up with anyone that backed down (Dwlee, as Roden is IC and cant be pushed).

To be clear, I'm not frustrated that people are FoS'ing me. I'm frustrated that people seem so resistant to getting a player up against a wall d1

Also at this point I hadn't noticed any FoS except maybe from IV, and again, Margot does not name names.

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I feel pretty good about this post rn (minus calling me and dwlee scummy)

I grabbed this because it was the last time Gamma interacted with or mentioned Margot before the 806 post.

just some brief thoughts i had on my skim

townlean i guess

T3 - I remember meta'ing this guy back in DEFCON mafia but i feel like he's way different now this doesn't resemble either his town or scum game. Guy doesn't care he's posting every thought and just vibing. which is kind of what i do as scum sometimes too but i don't think it's something most ppl do. Being open about feeling disconnected from the game feels +town and i some of his content looks bad on the surface but he doesn't give a fuck and i think some of his takes were reasonable. The "mindmeld" with salsa post felt real and i think the excitement was genuine idk that was kinda townpingy i guess. flashvote on me was bad but he could just be trigger happy.

north of null

kyouko - anyone who proactively and early does a meta dive scumcase that clearly laid out with no bullshit can be a townlean, unless it's someone who i know can put in the effort as scum like datisi. maybe kyouko's a good scum player too so idk but fine keeping that slot around for now. i feel meh about trusting these kinds of tells because i think they tend to be mean-reverting more than ppl expect but i like the spirit

datsi - concise and nonpostury takes are very non-lamist. i think scum!gamma might be more lamisty and wordy which is the vibe i got from him in LN something

mew - idk i take back the faker comparison he seems to be very open about his thoughts and is very willing to explain everything he's thinking which is a plus - maybe he's scum good at faking this kind of stuff even under pressure tho idk seems redeemable at least

idk

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too. sorry dayteezee i know u are good at getting ppl to townread you but not me yet. i feel like as i keep interacting with you ill get a better sense for your alignment

salsa - i get a T3/unabombah vibe from this slot very spammy and ico style catchup lol. granted una was scum in the game im thinking of but vibe here is very frazzled. idk i can't really put into words here yet but meh.

dwlee - i think some of their earlier posting was fine and reminiscent of our recent game but i wasn't exactly trying to read dwlee there so idk this reread dwlee didn't stand out like at all. idk

I feel like IV is treating Salsa's catchup and Gamma's catchup differently. I also kinda think town!Gamma is more verbose so I'm suspicious of the TR, considering Salsa does not get one.

VOTE: margot

VOTE: MargotRosa

Yeah I'm kind of not up for waiting 24-48 hrs just for 786 and 787 again.

2 quick votes appear for Margot near the top of a page. Gamma hasn't posted since near the end of 2 pages prior. He has either been reading the previous page without commenting, and decided that Margot votes were worth commenting on, or he checked the thread, read everything since his last post, and decided none of the last page was worth responding to, but that the Margot votes were.

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

The problem I'm having with what he chose to respond to is that IV directed a question straight at him and he ignored it. He also didnt respond after he commented on Margot. Then, IV directs yet another post at Gamma and Gamma still does not respond. IV also makes no indication he is bothered by Gamma not responding to his first question, in fact he treats him rather cordially. Here are the 2 posts. I think the scumteam has agreed to bus IV and Gamma got concerned that Margot was getting pressure, so they had Margot make that wall post condemning IV since he was essentially a dead man walking already.

The posts:

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

can you explain this? why is iv town for noticing a difference in your play between the two games?

It’s the way he noticed it, I feel like there’s ways he could have spun it to not TR me for it, so unless he’s literally trying to pocket me specifically I think he’s just town

honestly i don't really get it either

what specifically do you think scum!me does differently if i have to bullshit a read on you?

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

basically the E1 and direct ask for claim at that point was rolefishy, opportunistic, unnecessary and therefore bad

i could totally see someone just outing their role and claiming there

also for how much she complained about pressure alleviating on me where the fuck is she to put more pressure on me?

not trying to be a hypocrite so this part comes with a grain of salt but it’s been 3 days since the flashwagon and she’s barely been here, does she really care about this

meh it’s mostly about the Claim I just want an answer to at this point. Less that I actually think she’s like lockscum

Probably also worth pointing out that, after the posts you went through ssbm, and which I had forgotten, by Datsi actually gets off the IV wagon

votecount 1.9

Innocentvillager (4) :

T3 ; MargotRosa ; Aristeia ; Roden

Exe-3

Aristeia (2) :

Salsabil Faria ; Dwlee99

T3 (2) :

Datsi ; Datisi

Mewtaph (1) :

ssbm_Kyouko

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

MargotRosa (1) :

innocentvillager

Not voting (2) :

Mewtaph ; ChaosOmega

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-30 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

announcements

Prodding Not_Mafia

flavor

Another life wasted in the pursuit of glory and gold.

[MargotRosa]

I did not mean to quote your post, again, and I apologise. However, the 1.9 vote tally is still there. It wasn't until my wall much later on that the IV wagon actually took off.

[MargotRosa]

So your theory relies on, likely just me, unilaterally deciding to actively support a wagon on IV twice, when neither IV nor myself were in danger of being eliminated, and indeed when I was actually creating pressure to put on myself. It also selectively picks out posts to make Datsi look scummy, but only in the world of your theory in which Scum is bussing their team member, a Scum PR no less (irrespective of how useful the PR actually was), for basically no reason.

I don't see how it makes any sense at all, and honestly almost makes me want to reconsider your slot, just by virtue of how odd I find that argument.

[MargotRosa]

@Ari, @Enchant, probably @ssbm:

Is there any universe where it's Salsa/Datisi?

[MargotRosa]

Especially given the amount of talk on bussing that's been going on, there's almost certainly some bussing that's actually occurred. Seems like it's on the brain

[MargotRosa]

Never mind. I thought, very incorrectly, that Datisi had been more quiet than they had. Way too much content, and way too Townie, to be a serious Scum runner this late in the game. Thought I might have been getting Roden in Newbie 2076 vibes, but I just don't think so

[MargotRosa]

Was on phone, and corrected because of sheer volume

[MargotRosa]

Connecting you to a similar play to Roden isn't just not doing much, which I don't necessarily find scummy on its own, but specifically not doing much, and cropping up only just enough to make sure you don't look scummy and to support other slot's pushes without posting so often, or with enough conviction, that it attracts attention.

[MargotRosa]

Actually, I almost see the more likely pairing for Datisi being Datsi, going purely by the way that d1 went. Specifically, both voted IV early in the day, jumped off at the point that I demanded a claim, and finished the day on the T3 wagon.

But I think if Datsi isn't Scum, then Datisi isn't either, and I think moreso than anything, I may just be seeing through the lens of the pure aesthetics of my evil twins from Korra comment inadvertently picking out scum.

By no means something worth acting on. More something I'm keeping in my back pocket.

I'm also probably going to go through and see if I can make a comment with every single vote tally in the thread in one post, moreso for my own sake than anything else, because I find it useful going through them over again

[MargotRosa]

So, I just noticed this while putting the votes together, which I don't think I noticed first time around. Datisi claims that there is nm-1 in 56 - that is e-2. Still weird that a wagon had built up that much, half the players are still in RVS mode, but I guess if players were looking out for it, could that be something?

As of 55, the vote tally (with order preserved) is:

votecount 1.1.5

Mewtaph (5) :

Datisi ; ChaosOmega ; Roden ; Salsabil Faria ; Dwlee99

Salsabil Faria (1) :

Datsi

T3 (1) :

MargotRosa

Roden (1) :

Mewtaph

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

Not voting (4) :

Aristeia - ssbm_Kyouko - T3 - innocentvillager

[/quote]

Idk, I'm going to keep putting the tallies together. Probably nothing, but it niggled my brain, so thought I'd put it here for completeness

[MargotRosa]

DAY ONE

votecount 1.0

Not voting (13) : Datisi - MargotRosa - Salsabil Faria - Not_Mafia - Aristeia - ssbm_Kyouko - Mewtaph - datsi - T3 - Dwlee99 - ChaosOmega - innocentvillager - Roden

announcements

Roden is confirmed to be aligned with the

Town

Mostly still RVS at this point. Mew, CO, Datisi all making actual reads

votecount 1.1

Mewtaph (3) :

Datisi ; ChaosOmega ; Roden

Salsabil Faria (2) :

Datsi ; Mewtaph

T3 (1) :

MargotRosa

Datisi (1) :

Salsabil Faria

Roden (1) :

Dwlee99

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

Not voting (4) :

Aristeia - ssbm_Kyouko - T3 - innocentvillager

Maybe some weird interactions between Salsa and Mew, but may just be reading into it too much. Seems almost aggressively indifferent to what is, admittedly, a very silly announcement by Mew that they are applying pressure, which undermines the whole point. Mew makes a somewhat reasonable case for Town reading them, but does it still hold up this late?

Dwlee, T3 and N_M have claimed Miller

votecount 1.1.5

Mewtaph (5) :

Datisi ; ChaosOmega ; Roden ; Salsabil Faria ; Dwlee99

Salsabil Faria (1) :

Datsi

T3 (1) :

MargotRosa

Roden (1) :

Mewtaph

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

Not voting (4) :

Aristeia - ssbm_Kyouko - T3 - innocentvillager

as noted in 1570

Datisi and Mew vote IV, seemingly as RVS. Dwlee pushes me in 69, with a great deal of confidence. (Sidenote, but did Dwlee ever say what this was about?)

votecount 1.2

Mewtaph (3) :

ChaosOmega ; Roden ; Salsabil Faria

Innocentvillager (2) :

Datisi ; Mewtaph

Salsabil Faria (1) :

Datsi

MargotRosa (1) :

Dwlee99

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

Not voting (5) :

Aristeia - ssbm_Kyouko - T3 - innocentvillager - MargotRosa

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-30 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

Datsi TRs Mew.

Both Datsi and Datisi seem very confident that I am scum here?? [Is this to do with the Dwlee thing? What happened here?]

I would actually like an answer to this please

ssbm votes Roden, conf IC, however from memory corrects later. Some interaction between Dwlee and Datisi that seems odd, but is impossible to read.

Is Salsa's 95 code for something? Looking back there is a lot of not very much at all happening here from this slot. Just a lot of nothing. She may just be confused about roles though?

Reading through again, and still struck by how little argument and evidence Datsi puts into their posts. What is going on there? Is this little justification within their Town range? More weird characters, this time from Datsi 113 Datsi starts scum reading T3 116

T3's 118 seems to suggest the opposite problem, except with Datisi. As in, T3 says Datisi's analysis is too deep to be Town? This is surely the opposite of what is meant though?

Page 6 all about the T3 claiming N_M was cryptographer. Dwlee still pushing my slot page 7. I don't remember when they dropped this?

152 from Datisi defending T3, 162 from ssbm saying the defence doesn't mean anything. Now all goes down into whether or not T3 was doing it as a joke. ssbm votes for Roden again?? 164

Funnily enough, I think the weird votes by ssbm on Roden make her more likely to be Town, just because scum pt would have been open, and I imagine the Roden IC reveal would have been discussed. It takes her soooooo long to realise lol

Push on me continues with a Datsi vote. Dwlee says something cryptic about my ISO.

I do my first ISO dive 199 (listed out here):

Town: Roden
Town lean: Dwlee99 (though this changes to scum lean, I am confused bc Roden made I joke I didn't get lol) ; Datisi
Null: Not_Mafia ; Aristeia ; Innocent Villager ; Chaos ; ssbm_Kyouko
Nullscum: T3
Scum lean: Datsi ; Salsabil Faria ; Mewtaph

I don't remember scum reading Datsi and SF so much so quickly. Also do not remember having had IV at null, though likely just because of minimal content by this point. End up voting Mewtaph (I really didn't like Mew d1. I forgot that too).

Datsi proposes solve as Margot/Mewtaph/Kyouko

Datisi votes IV, open to voting T3 if there are better choices.

I start defending T3 at the bottom of page 8 223. Datisi seems to get good vibes from my reads list. Also seems to have enjoyed the Korra reference lol.

Roden pushes back against my TR of T3 228 (good to know. I didn't remember that Roden pushed back against me first). Datisi and Roden have a convo about ssbm, and specifically whether or not the fact that she isn't obviously playing for Towncred is town indicative or not. Datisi is hestitantly saying that yes it is.

Sala comes in to ask a bunch of questions. Ends up voting for ssbm because she thinks T3 was obviously making a joke, and ssbm should have realised that.

votecount 1.3

Innocentvillager (3) :

Mewtaph ; Dwlee99 ; Datisi

Mewtaph (2) :

ChaosOmega ; MargotRosa

ssbm_Kyouko (2) :

T3 ; Salsabil Faria

T3 (1) :

Roden

MargotRosa (1) :

Datsi

Not_Mafia (1) :

Not_Mafia

Not voting (3) :

Aristeia - ssbm_Kyouko - innocentvillager

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-30 20:18:31) or when a wagon reaches majority at 7 votes

Will finish some more later. I have a few papers and a keynote I need to finish up before this afternoon. [Personal reference: start back up at 244]

[MargotRosa]

Part of why I’ve been not taking pains to really defend myself was to see how you took it. If you

REALLY

believed you had something with this, me falling off like I did shouldn’t change things. At this point I think you’re fudging it.
VOTE: kyouko

I have quietly been wondering also about the fact that ssbm made a big deal out of mass claim, insinuating that it would decide one way or another whether she would vote Datsi or not.

Where are you on that?

[MargotRosa]

@Ari, @Enchant, probably @ssbm:

Is there any universe where it's Salsa/Datisi?

I have a hard time thinking Datisi would approach IV the way he did on D1 if they were S/S.

I think the way Datsi tried to push T3 at EOD-1 is very scum-indicative, he also barely talked about IV except right at the end where he's like "they might be s/s"

I'm just trying to come up with possible scum reads so I have some idea what happens if we land on someone, and they don't flip red

[MargotRosa]

Just dropping in btw, don't have time to keep the ISO wall going just yet

[MargotRosa]

If we had a protective outside of some temp NK immunity, then Town wins. Seems like a lot of Town PRs tho

[MargotRosa]

Wrt mass claim, I'm putting cards on table now and saying that I'm not claiming specific role until ELO. I've already revealed that I have a PR (back in D1 from memory) but this late in the game it becomes useless if I claim before the last second

[MargotRosa]

I wonder if there's some bizarre malarkey going on with Scum PRs? Seems like the only way to balance against all the Town power would be Scum power, and if there's no multi-tasking?

[MargotRosa]

Salsa is seeming more and more likely. I'm going back over d1, and a lot of her pushes seem very opportunistic. She has ssbm as more or less lock scum by this post:

Spoiler: Post 261

Read-list (in no particular order):

Roden

Datisi

datsi

T3

N_M
Aris
CO
iv

Getting a feeling that there is at least one scum in this list:

MR
Mew
Dwlee

ssbm

The scum lock seems to have occurred over ssbm scum reading T3 for being third Miller claim, and the weird joke about N_M being an encryptor and in a mason pair, which happens here:

Spoiler: Post 242

Because it didnt seem like a joke considering the Miller claims that had been going around. N_M had already claimed miller. Extending that to Miller Mason sounds like a real claim. I think T3 was making a scum fake claim and messed up and is now calling it a joke

What? Lol! Now I understand why do

T3

vote

ssbm

don't know how many games you played with

T3

, but more than me for sure and if I can catch it, then I should can understand that it was a joke and scum!

T3

won't slip like this lol!

UNVOTE: Mew

VOTE: ssbm

I also remember thinking that her responses to Mew weren't completely convincing to me, but dropping it because Mew dropped it as well. In retrospect, it feels like someone posturing and looking tough, rather than necessarily actually behaving in a Town way.

I don't know that acting in such a way as to make someone back off from FoSing you, as opposed to necessarily "behaving in a Town way" is necessarily scum read worthy, but I do feel it's worth at least bringing up my thoughts in light of the earlier points I've made

[MargotRosa]

I'm happy to vote Salsa, and I am realising we maybe don't need to be quite as cautious as I anticipated, given that I have as many conf towns as there are likely scum players.

I do want to discuss what we do next. That said, I'm happy to just discuss tomorrow, if people feel confident about the Salsa vote and especially if people feel that they don't want to give Scum info before nightfall, which I think is probably the sensible course of action. This is particularly given that I doubt whatever conversation we have today will change the vote.

I'm looking at the slots in play, and feel pretty confident that Salsa is, by a country mile, the most likely to flip red.

Would like to hear Salsa's case, as we have time, and anyone else who has anything pressing to say today, or who thinks I'm overstepping. I am aware I felt quite confident about Datsi, after getting scum vibes from the slot since very early in the game, and given my performance in the final days of previous games, my gut is maybe not the best weather vane.

VOTE: Salsa e-2

[MargotRosa]

I'm frustrated about how yesterday ended. I felt so certain we'd gotten one after Datsi self-hammered. It felt to me like Scum trying to shut down conversation to get heat off other slots.

I was planning on pushing Chaos if Datsi flipped red, because if I had read it right, 1609 being the last content-y post in the thread before the self hammer might have indicated something. Alas

[MargotRosa]

Current PoE (in order):
Salsabil Faria
ChaosOmega
Aristeia
Datisi

Also a veeeeery outside chance that Ssbm is in contention. The only way I see this happening is if scum has a one-shot second night kill, deciding to use it n1, either in reaction to IV getting voted off and revealing that vigilante existed, or by bussing IV themselves. I can't remember who else was on the d1 IV wagon - will need to check.

I say this only because I'm worried about a weird lack of balance out of what we've seen revealed thus far. I'm trying to imagine what Scum must have to turn the tide in their favour, given that the only power role revealed for Scum shows them whether one slot is an IC, or whether it is a vig (assuming no multi-tasking), and Town has had 2 ICs, most likely a one-shot vigilante, and also some form of protection (whether a JK/doctor, or some protective item). Am I wrong in thinking this looks very unbalanced, and there must be something else going on that we're not seeing?

[MargotRosa]

votecount 1.15

T3 (5) :

Salsabil Faria ; Aristeia ; Datsi ; Datisi ; Not_Mafia

Exe-2

Innocentvillager (7) :

ChaosOmega ; Dwlee99 ; ssbm_Kyouko ; MargotRosa ; Roden ; innocentvillager ; Enchant

Execution !

ssbm_Kyouko (1) :

T3

Not voting (0) :

These are the final votes on d1. It's almost half/half. Interestingly, four of the remaining slots were on the IV wagon, and two are the two conf towns. I invite everyone to ignore my earlier post, because I am realising it probably relies on scum team being exactly Chaos and ssbm, and I don't think that makes sense in my mind.

[MargotRosa]

I'm going to back away from the thread for now, and just let myself breathe before I do what I usually do and overcomplicate the game to high hell

[MargotRosa]

She is an un-CC'd vigilante

[MargotRosa]

UNVOTE:

[MargotRosa]

Honestly, putting this reads list together was a lot more difficult than in previous games. Usually, there is a clear narrative to follow (as in Newbie 2076, where things rolled out naturally from T3's opening gambit). There isn't really one here; everything is so zig zaggy and without clear purpose.

Being open, I am not good with meta, and reading people, which is why I'm so uncertain right now. I am a political economist, and a statistician, and I work best when I have data. That's been as true on this site as it has been in my real life.

As we get closer to the deadline, if there isn't much more coherence to everything, I'm going to reveal my role purely to get some data, and get some coherency to the narrative so that we're all on track again.

For now:
VOTE: Mewtaph

I didn't just hint, but confirmed having a power role day 1, because I wanted data to work off. I can explain why the events of that day have changed my mind about revealing, and also why it didn't really factor too hard into my analysis at this late stage.

Like, mine is a role whose usefulness is more or less contingent on scum getting much more successful earlier in the day than they did. Part of the reason that I've been surprised is that all of scum's play has felt forced since D1, with maybe an exception D2, I can't remember? Will check.

I'm happy to claim if you want me to. It will render the role completely useless, but honestly, seems unlikely it'll be anything but before end of game anyway

[MargotRosa]

As for the game in question: The fake claim was something I made up right before the last day in a panic, because I missed d3 and had to think quick and on my feet. Also, as I said there, my play was much more based around playing with people's emotions so that they questioned their plays. It wasn't about being town read so much as it was being in a position where everyone questioned their own play so much they felt confused enough to believe my frankly unbelievable story.

Meta is completely different here, and I offered to claim D1 purely to get some data going so I had more data to read the game properly, which up until that point had been very slow

[MargotRosa]

This is the post in question. Post links to the game, and everyone is more than welcome to read it. If anything looks all that similar I'd be honestly interested to find out myself

I am jailkeeper.

I JKed RH9 last night to make sure something ridiculous wasn't going on (ie. RH9 was tracker) and the lack of a kill last night indicates I was right.

I JKed Prism n1, because I thought that Prism was most likely to be targeted d1. (I crumbed that I would do this in post 361.)

n2 is complicated, because I changed my strat after I found out connor was Scum, and in so doing ruined my planned crumbs (in which, unless I crumbed otherwise, whoever I parked on at the end of the day was who I jailed).

Side note: I cannot believe that noone made anything of the fact that I alone had parked my vote on the claimed investigative at the end of d2. I honestly thought at the time that this was too obvious a tell that I was doing something odd, and that I wanted people to pay attention to it. If you had noticed, then kudos, but given that noone stalled d3 long enough to find out about it, I doubt it.

I had started to put things together in my head during d2 (and tried to point this out in post 590) because I felt like the post looked like someone affecting surprise at an elimination for precisely the situation I was worried I was finding myself in, in which I could not predict whatsoever who scum was targetting for night kill, and therefore could not properly protect whoever needed protecting. I wasn't sure though, especially given that JK/Tracker was a valid pairing, and it was possible they had misrepresented their role as Cop rather than Tracker (given that the former is potentially stronger). If they were holding to the Cop thing though, they must be a Mafia Goon (because otherwise it's an instant loss, with 2 PRs in every Tracker setup).

Was going to JK RH9 n2, which I had crumbed, but didn't.

In my head, I justified wanting to JK them because, in doing so, if they gave any read, it was clear that they were not a tracker (because JK prevents them from tracking), and if there was no kill, I had some juicy info to bring to Town (either they were targetted, or they were scum, and I would find out very quickly by getting them to clarify what their role was as soon as dawn broke.

I changed my mind, and decided to JK Prism when I discovered we had eliminated Scum d2. This was a bad call, which I will absolutely wear in the post game, but let's put that aside for a minute. In my head, I justified changing because of the following:
a) It was still possible that RH9 was misrepresenting being a Tracker, rather than a Cop. Therefore, we would have more info come the morning based on RH9's data if someone was killed
b) I still wanted to clear Prism. In my head, the prime suspects were, in order, RH9, catboi, Prism. We had two nights before elo.Therefore, by JKing Prism, if someone dies, they aren't scum. In addition, I doubted that scum who doesn't kill Prism n1 tries to target Prism n2.

Therefore, my overthinking meant that I figured I got more info from JKing Prism n2 than RH9. Which is true, but we also got a way more volatile game state.

When I logged on to see d3 had started and ended, I realised I'd made a bad call, because the whole play relied on getting to spell everything out d3, and I hadn't gotten the opportunity to say anything. Therefore, I finally made good on my d2 crumb and JKed RH9.

I did this because it achieved two things:

1 - If someone else got killed, RH9 wasn't scum. There was still a very unlikely possibility in my head that they might have been tracker and misunderstood the role PM, in which case we were a PR pair. THis would have made life pretty easy, because it would have had to be Cheeky, and it was just that she didn't move one night, or else RH9 had been roleblocked the night that Cheeky had been investigated. I also thought it basically impossible that a scum who isn't RH9 targets RH9 n3 but doesn't target RH9 n2. At any rate, the possibility of that happening was so remote, that the chance of that happening, and also of RH9 claiming investigative

2 - Noone got killed, which meant everyone would have hopefully been confused enough to put a stop to a fast d4, thereby giving me time to talk it all out.


Ask yourselves, honestly, does anything RH9 says he has done make any sense at all? Why on Earth does he investigate Taco n1? Why on Earth does he investigate Cheeky instead of me n2, when I am the only slot he has voted for all game?

The answer is that it makes zero sense. I am the jail keeper. RH9 is scum.

Scum PT from that game was released unredacted, so feel free to read that also

[MargotRosa]

I know this is very high stakes and everything, but I want to just leave a minute's silence for Salsa's happy birthday to the mod, because reading that in massive aqua capital letters halfway through the emotional FoSing of Datisi was peak deadpan humour, and I've been laughing at it for a solid five minutes

[MargotRosa]

I figured honestly figured it had to be Chaos, or you. I thought Chaos was more likely, but after the shitshow that is the last three pages I think it's you. This is process of elimination, but right now that's all I've got.

I was going through everything, and realised that I TRed you and Salsa just because you were both so convincing as Town. It seemed so natural that that was that, and that I can't even remember why I TRd Chaos.

Almost everyone else I have a really strong justification for my TR. Enchant and SSBM are confed already. Ari is Town not because she just seems Town, but because her Town reading me since the start of the day. I've said this before, but this makes no sense as Scum!Ari, and means she had to decide to buddy up to me since the beginning of the day.

[MargotRosa]

Also, Datisi, your reactions to the tiny amount of pressure you've been getting is ludicrous.

You seemed so in control, and so calm and collected, and as soon as someone pointed out a halfway decent case on you, you've lost it. It's not just a bad look, it's awful. You are spiraling despite the fact that, as far as I can see, you only have one vote.

I also think you know that you are on my list of possible team mates with Salsa, because I've already said it, early in the game. I'm freaked, because it feels like all this energy was being prepped for when I inevitably brought up, again, that you and Salsa were possible partners

[MargotRosa]

but after the shitshow that is the last three pages I think it's you.

why. you're both saying it's bad but neither of you are actually giving any justification. use your words.

This is the most dishonest cutting of message content I have ever seen

[MargotRosa]

Every other word in that post explains where my head is at

[MargotRosa]

Unless you mean explain why your posting has been a bad look?

[MargotRosa]

In which case I suggest getting an ounce of perspective. I have never flipped so hard on another person in my life

[MargotRosa]

This is where I first explain my Town read on Ari:

I also think it's worth saying that I feel pretty confident that Ari is Town. She's been Town reading me all game, which is not Town indicative in itself, but read in combo with the following quoted post, it kind of necessitates Scum!Ari deciding at game start that she is going to buddy up to me as a strategy.

I'm still not sure about T3. I'm not going to stand in the way of it, because I'm out of *hard* reads right now, but this just reads too much like WIFOM. Like, if T3 is scum, why in the world don't they vote each other as contingency?

If T3 is town, why does IV not vote him and let NM hammer rather than take the fall himself?

It's not the most outlandish idea in the world, especially given the fact that I've been pretty susceptible to that kind of thing in past games, but we haven't played together before, and so it only makes sense if she'd done a deep meta dive on me, a player who has been on the site for all of a couple of months to see if a specific strat would work on me. I just don't think it's likely, and so the only explanation that makes sense to me is that she is Town.

Either that, or I'm falling for the same buddy-buddy strat three games in a row. And I doubt it

This is where I first imagine Datisi/Salsa:

@Ari, @Enchant, probably @ssbm:

Is there any universe where it's Salsa/Datisi?

It's not a new read, on you or Ari. If I've swung on you particularly hard, it's because this whole game has given me flashbacks to the first game I ever played on this site, and SSBM's post on you was particularly terrifying.

I lost to Roden because I trusted my gut instinct Town Read more than I trusted my actual informed reads of the way things were playing out, and being posted in game

I have lost three out of the three games I've played. In the two I've played as Town, we managed to have a fantastic start. First game, I managed to successfully find and kill Scum d1. Second, we got 2 out of 3 in the first 2 days. Still lost. My mind is whirling.

[MargotRosa]

The change between 1535, even since the start of d4, and now is that, even though I found your posts to read as very Town, I am realising that I have actually spelled out way more reason to TR Ari than I have you

[MargotRosa]

To be clear, I do still think Salsa is more likely Scum that you are. In my head, scum is Salsa + either you or Chaos, which is why I'm not voting you right now.

[MargotRosa]

SSBM's post on you was particularly terrifying

heaven fucking help me.

that imagining of datisi/salsa is especially unmemorable considering you said absolutely nothing about it. i'll go through whatever was your read on ari tomorrow. logging off for real.

You don't need to be mean

[MargotRosa]

Look Datisi. Obviously, this is speaking as my personal take. I can only read your meta based on what I expect from an average person's meta, from my experience on this site, and from those who know your meta and are commenting on it.

Maybe we'll get back on track if you talk to us about your reads for a sec. Idk, this all feels very tense, and very emotional, and not very conducive to finding scum. If it's indeed not you, which I felt reasonably sure it wasn't, we need to work out who else it could be.

Who do *you* think is partnered with Salsa? I think it's likely that Salsa is Scum from where I'm sitting. Do you still think the same?

[MargotRosa]

I feel like from the way things have gone since I posted my Datisi case we have good partner interactions to go off of.

Datisi really only makes sense with one player now I think, and that's Chaos. Everyone else is quick to jump on board when Datisi has what the hivemind seems to say is a bad reaction. That's the narrative everyone is pushing right now. "Datisi is scum because he's overreacted to Kyouko's 1 vote." This is either true or it's being perpetuated by scum.

The one (non-conftown) person who isn't pushing this narrative is Chaos, in fact he slides right over it and "gets back to datisi" on his question about Salsa partners. It feels a bit scripted, like Chaos was just playing his part, doing what he was "supposed to" - he clearly missed a tonal shift in the gamestate and I feel like this lack of awareness is scum!indicative. The way I see it we will branch one of two ways from a Chaos flip:

Town!Chaos: He was the only sensible partner to Datisi, so Datisi is soft cleared until a scum is found. If aristea is flipped and found to be scum, there's a possibility she and Datisi have theatred this game hard from D1 and Datisi comes back on the table. Otherwise he remains clear. Top suspects are Salsa and MR.

Scum!Chaos: Datisi has to go next due to the mutual lack of meaningful interactions between these slots, combined with what has transpired since my case was posted. If Datisi then flips town, Salsa is likely town from the Chaos push, and the last scum is in {Margot, Aristea}

I am concerned about what will happen tomorrow if Datisi is miseliminated as town. I would prefer to start at Chaos and go from there based on his alignment, especially after what's gone down in the past few pages.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

I disagree. I think Chaos is the only slot it doesn't make sense to be partnered with Datisi, because there is no way scum makes it obvious in anyway they are aligned this close to elo

[MargotRosa]

I'm at my partner's today (Saturday is partner day) so I am only here very briefly.

For why I like ssbm case, without going through the game thread (which is a pain in the arse on mobile), I remember thinking it was incredibly detailed, and very logical. As I have said earlier, I am particularly interested in logical, rather than emotional, arguments, and that was the initial impression I got.

I need to read through Salsa/Datisi back and forth properly, but the brief skim I just did gives me bad vibes. Cards on table; I don't know whether they are scum vibes, or I'm just uncomfortable with the really hostile tone this game has taken on.

If I was voting right now, before reading through again, I would vote for Salsa. I feel like her flip will give us the most possible information about who remaining scum could be. In particular, I think her flipping green here is the least disastrous out of any possible green flips, because I think the possible pairs out of the remaining village are likely much easier to sort than the alternatives

[MargotRosa]

Point of 1793 is to say, by the way, that Salsa makes sense as a partner with either Chaos and Datisi, and only Chaos and Datisi

[MargotRosa]

As well as to say that I doubt Datisi and Chaos are partners

[MargotRosa]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

[MargotRosa]

Which, PoE, if Salsa flips green, only possible pair really is Ari and Chaos

[MargotRosa]

Will do a deeper read either tonight when I get home, or tomorrow morning, but I'm actually comfortable enough to vote, with that reasoning

VOTE: Salsa

[MargotRosa]

It's also looks bad because of potential combo.

?

salsa's behaviour is definitely weird, and i'm puzzled by the "pls don't kill me yet, i need to say something... ok i'm self voting gl town" and i'm hoping she comes back and actually contributes because at some point the only thing we can conclude is antispew, but we've been going down the poe and we have two green flips and i'm anxious.

It's actually makes sense to "Selfvote" after townie just hammered self to trick us. Town!Salsa should knew better, especially after she saw how it was bad move.

I'm so confused. So you're argument as to why you aren't scum is that your partner would have to be enough of a fool to let you make mistakes? Which you admit you're making?

[MargotRosa]

Sorry, don't know why I quoted that enchant post... It was directed at Salsa

[MargotRosa]

But hang on, you are playing towards the scum win con? You're no longer self voting? Like, where I'm standing, I can easily see the latest series of flips of yours being scum you playing, scum you getting exhausted, and then your partner demanding that you actually turn up and play the game?

Not saying that's necessarily what happened, but I am saying that your argument about why you aren't scum is actually a decent explanation of how you'd behave if you were scum

[MargotRosa]

I am interested to see what Enchant thinks of the appeal to their slot by Salsa here

[MargotRosa]

I don't want you to do that if you're town. This is feeling like a lot of AtE.

Genuinely getting frustrated, because I'm trying to read your slot, and all this emotion from half the slots I'm trying to talk to is making this game infinitely more stressful and any reads I'm putting out there completely fruitless.

I'm not trying to upset you, ok; I'm trying to play the game.

[MargotRosa]

Fine, look, who do you think is scum? I know that you are trying to convince me that this play isn't your meta, but everyone reads as Town, with only two confs, and two scum still in play. So if it's not you, you need to tell us who else it is.

[MargotRosa]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

mmm, i'm also gonna need elaboration on this. iirc, you still haven't shown the datisi/salsa connection you saw (link me if you have), and why do you think i don't fit with anyone else?

Yes I have! What is your actual problem dude? I have said, already, that I felt like anyone partnered with you needs to be scum reading you. I've been clear on that, and given that you've apparently spent soooooo much time rereading the thread, you'd surely have found it in the ISO

This whole "where's the evidence" thing you're doing is unbelievably frustrating, because at this point, there is none. I think that's very clear. But there's none for anybody. If there was, the votes would be stacked up to go already. Noone is sure, because all the clear scumreads are already dead.

Honestly, sick of this. You are so intransigent and frustrating. Even if this is just a policy vote, it's a policy vote well earned by your slot. I'm trying to read slots, and you're fucking around with these flailing desperate attempts to beg people to provide evidence you know nobody has, and being cruel and hostile to everyone els let in the thread.

I hope everyone else is ready to play come tomorrow. I'm going to bed.

VOTE:

[MargotRosa]

VOTE: Datisi

I'm logging off till d5. We're not achieving anything before twilight

[MargotRosa]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

mmm, i'm also gonna need elaboration on this. iirc, you still haven't shown the datisi/salsa connection you saw (link me if you have), and why do you think i don't fit with anyone else?

Yes I have! What is your actual problem dude? I have said, already, that I felt like anyone partnered with you needs to be scum reading you. I've been clear on that, and given that you've apparently spent soooooo much time rereading the thread, you'd surely have found it in the ISO

where the fuck did you do that? you first mentioned that team in 1563, with no elaboration whatsoever. to then go "nvm" 5 minutes later. you even said later yourself (1716) that that was the first time you seriously thought of that team. when i ask "why were you thinking of that team?", i'm asking why you're thinking of it way back then when you first mentioned it. because if you first thought of it back on d3, there is no way that d4's events were actually influencing that read. so what was it?

furthermore, even if we say that i'm only talking about your d4 reads here and not d3, you said that anyone partnered with me has to be scumreading me. okay, fine! but you know who's showed that they're scumreading me today? both salsa and ari! so what i'm asking is why the fuck do you think that i'm not partnered with ari? you gave no explanation for why i'm suddenly not a viable ari partner, despite your "datisi's partner would've been scumreading him" read implying you shouldn't be thinking that. fuck me for asking you to elaborate on your vague unexplained thoughts?

This whole "where's the evidence" thing you're doing is unbelievably frustrating, because at this point, there is none. I think that's very clear. But there's none for anybody. If there was, the votes would be stacked up to go already. Noone is sure, because all the clear scumreads are already dead.

i don't ask for evidence. i *understand* there is no evidence for anything. i'm asking for evidence of your fucking thought process. to prove to me not what you're saying is true, but that you genuinely believe in what you're saying and how you got there. i don't give a shit about half-baked unexplained reads, i can't use them to solve anyone. i need a thought process that nobody is willing to give.

I present, as result of the briefest of diving back into my ISO, the following series of posts:

I feel like from the way things have gone since I posted my Datisi case we have good partner interactions to go off of.

Datisi really only makes sense with one player now I think, and that's Chaos. Everyone else is quick to jump on board when Datisi has what the hivemind seems to say is a bad reaction. That's the narrative everyone is pushing right now. "Datisi is scum because he's overreacted to Kyouko's 1 vote." This is either true or it's being perpetuated by scum.

The one (non-conftown) person who isn't pushing this narrative is Chaos, in fact he slides right over it and "gets back to datisi" on his question about Salsa partners. It feels a bit scripted, like Chaos was just playing his part, doing what he was "supposed to" - he clearly missed a tonal shift in the gamestate and I feel like this lack of awareness is scum!indicative. The way I see it we will branch one of two ways from a Chaos flip:

Town!Chaos: He was the only sensible partner to Datisi, so Datisi is soft cleared until a scum is found. If aristea is flipped and found to be scum, there's a possibility she and Datisi have theatred this game hard from D1 and Datisi comes back on the table. Otherwise he remains clear. Top suspects are Salsa and MR.

Scum!Chaos: Datisi has to go next due to the mutual lack of meaningful interactions between these slots, combined with what has transpired since my case was posted. If Datisi then flips town, Salsa is likely town from the Chaos push, and the last scum is in {Margot, Aristea}

I am concerned about what will happen tomorrow if Datisi is miseliminated as town. I would prefer to start at Chaos and go from there based on his alignment, especially after what's gone down in the past few pages.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

I disagree. I think Chaos is the only slot it doesn't make sense to be partnered with Datisi, because there is no way scum makes it obvious in anyway they are aligned this close to elo

Point of 1793 is to say, by the way, that Salsa makes sense as a partner with either Chaos and Datisi, and only Chaos and Datisi

As well as to say that I doubt Datisi and Chaos are partners

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

Which, PoE, if Salsa flips green, only possible pair really is Ari and Chaos

Such the thought process I earlier described. Many consistent Process of Elimination. Fukn wow.

[MargotRosa]

I have made clear since much earlier in the day, that the PoE in my head goes:

Vote Salsa:

If Salsa flips red, vote Datisi
If Datisi flips green, vote Chaos
If Salsa flips green, vote Chaos
If Chaos flips red, vote Ari

[MargotRosa]

I did not realise we had 12 RL days for each day phase. That is bananas

[MargotRosa]

Realistically, I don't see Datisi partnered with anyone else

ah yes. the very deep and elaborate explanation for why i can only be partnered with salsa. i truly have no idea how i could've possibly missed it.

Read in context of all the posts I quoted, which incidentally, I didn't do for fun

[MargotRosa]

Look, I'll spell it out for you. I feel that Ari is almost certainly Town, and honestly, I feel like the uncomfortable energy coming off her posts whilst sort of probably scum reading you doesn't come from scum. Salsa makes sense to me as your partner because you two rarely interact, I feel like there has been very little in the way of Salsa appealing to you in the way she has done to other slots, almost as if she doesn't feel the need to convince you to read her in a certain way.

That's the long and short of it

[MargotRosa]

I began wondering whether you two were a team because I thought about your Salsa/Margot read, and felt it was insurance

[MargotRosa]

I'm not misrepping you

[MargotRosa]

And I agree in principle with a chunk of what ssbm said. I think you were very aimless with your votes on D1, and the way in which you meandered back to IV was last minute and potentially a face saving manouvre.

I can see what ssbm is saying about role fishing, though I wasn't sold on it. I did however see a lot of what was said on the ways that you have thrown your vote around since. I have thought often that you seem very adept at sitting on the edge of wagons, often playing into them enough to make other people jump on, but never so much that you can't jump off and cast dispersions on the people you've left there.

[MargotRosa]

As for how you reacted, it wasn't your reactions towards ssbm that have made me suspicious. It's the way in which you reacted to everyone else who felt that ssbm is right. It feels like desperation, trying to land any other playing who a scum read might stick to

[MargotRosa]

Ari, me, though interestingly, way less Salsa, which is odd

[MargotRosa]

Town backup vigilante

I didn't want to mention it, because it makes scum's kills pretty much auto for the rest of the game, and it also means that if we suspected ssbm, I'm guaranteed to die the night we killed her, and would have just wasted the role

It's useless as soon as you have to claim it

[MargotRosa]

The reason I considered role claiming D1 however, was because I felt it would have done some very interesting things for the setup day 1, especially given that Scum clearly knew there was a vigilante but Town did not (except for me and vigilante D1)

[MargotRosa]

I wasn't considering it in power analysis because I could tell that the likelihood of it doing anything was remote at best

[MargotRosa]

Chaos>Salsa/Datisi is still the best path I think, where town!Chaos means Salsa is next, and scum!Chaos means Datisi next. Again, this only loses to Aristea/Datisi as a team. Otherwise we either win or go to final 3 of Salsa/Datisi, Aristea, and MargotRosa (assuming scum kill the conftowns).

Let's say for arguments sake we've reached one of those final 3s.

Scum!Chaos/Town!Datisi: Salsa, Aristea, MargotRosa
Town!Chaos/Scum!Salsa: Datisi, Aristea, MargotRosa

Who is the last scum in both these situations and why? Open question to all.

I don't think it's likely at all we have Datisi/Ari team.

In your First, it's Salsa. In your second, it's Datisi

[MargotRosa]

Based on what the mod sent to me, I would assume that I only get one shot if that was your role:

"You will Inherit the first vigilante role to die in your faction"

Can't quote the entire message, obvs, but that's exactly what was sent to me by mod in my role PM

[MargotRosa]

Also, for what it's worth, the "in your faction" bit was what made me wonder whether there was a mafia aligned vigilante in the game. Likely just a standardised part of role PMs based on others saying it's impossible

[MargotRosa]

I hope it is at least obvious why I felt that it was likely scum has some power we don't know about.

That said, I think it's worth pointing out that my role is pointless at this stage in the game. There is no universe, except one in which Town kills ssbm today (which I don't think we should do) in which my role actually does anything

[MargotRosa]

Like, the way I see it, I exist just to be a backup in case the vig dies before they can shoot their one shot, otherwise the likelihood I actually do anything is miniscule to none

[MargotRosa]

I didn't crumb because I felt, given that I'd said outright, d1, that I had an interesting role I was willing to reveal, I made clear that:

a) My role would reveal something interesting about the type of game that we are in; and
b) If I was targeted by Mafia, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Which was as much as I was willing to reveal about myself anyway

[MargotRosa]

I also didn't want scum to know there was a vigilante until everyone else did, but given that the vigilante finder died d1, it became obvious to me that Mafia already knew

Revealing my role wouldn't have given anyone else any more information than they already had

[MargotRosa]

Margot, your only gate is Backup? You have unlimited shots once the Vigilante dies?

My gate is that I inherit any vigilante role from my (Town) faction. I took from that that I get the same modifiers.

[MargotRosa]

Adding on to earlier fwiw, I think it's almost certainly Salsa and Datisi, given that they both jumped onto a wagon against me as soon as I revealed my role, which I imagine would give just about any Town slot at least reason to pause for 5 seconds and think it through, rather than immediately jump onto a wagon against the claim

[MargotRosa]

If I get whacked before I come back (I have to oversee the many hour student politics election/grand event of the year this afternoon/evening *shudders*), here is my reads list, without going back through the thread meticulously

Town lock, obvs:
Enchant
Ssbm

As close as possible to town lock without being town lock:
Ari

Probably scum:
Chaos
Salsa

Scum:
DAtisi

[MargotRosa]

I will try to keep an eye on the thread nonetheless. Likely going to be in Zoom meetings until around 1am my time (or about 9 hours from now)

[MargotRosa]

To make sure I am not accused of not responding to things, I am going to go through important posts (admittedly, this is obviously subjective) from the last two odd pages, arranged to respond to each slot all at once:

Spoiler: Datisi

That's exactly what I thought your role was.

i'm sorry, how did you manage to work that out? was there a super obvious crumb i'm missing?

and uh. town backup vigilante. so there's already 3 confirmed towns in the game, two ic's and our vig. (i'm assuming 1-shot.) so you're telling me, once scum manages to do the mechanically correct play and kill the 1-shot vigilante, their reward is... town getting a full vigilante? who is practically another ic since they can confirm themselves once they shoot? and it's most likely gonna result in town getting an extra yeet (since two vig shots = 1 extra yeet)? *and* even if scum knows of the backup vig, and even if they kill them the night after they kill the og vig, they're still fucked because the vig will be able to get the shot off during that night anyway?

i dunno. if this mess is somehow balanced, then scum has a literal metric shit ton of power to counteract the town.

and worse, it still doesn't explain where tf the nightkill went. nobody here is something like bulletproof and sitting on this info for shits and giggles, right?

I have a theory about the missed NK, but I don't think it's helpful to discuss.

well, you're not outing any power roles, and it doesn't seem like we have much else to talk about now, so...?

ok, if someone here is a bp, you are aware that scum already knows you're bp because they tried to shoot you and failed, right? (unless ari is the protective or our protective is purposefully staying silent in which case i will have words post game)

but also like, you're expecting me to believe
3 ic's, one of them is a 1-shot vig
either one of them being some sorta bp OR there being a some sorta protect/block role

AND a backup vigilante who just goes full berserk ungated vigilante once scum manages to kill the gated vig?

nah. nah fam. kyouko has a good point that scum was aware of the fact that vig exists from the beginning. which is why margot's crumbs of "i could reveal my role if i wanted" give even less towncred considering she could have been planning a backup vig claim for a long while. and not like that "crumb" is backup vig specific either. like she could've had multiple of them planned and then decided to go with that once she saw that she won't have to "prove" the fact she's a vig

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone why my role would be something like this honestly

If anyone is wondering, I think the reason Mafia didn't have a night kill, if not because of BP, was because Mafia intentionally NKd. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, especially given that most players who are left are regular posters on the site.

I don't know if this is justified by unrevealed Scum power, or some other galaxy brain play, but who knows?

I also find it really odd that it hasn't occurred to you that, maybe, the reason my role doesn't explain why Enchant is still alive might be because, shock horror, I'm telling the truth, and the truth of why Enchant is still alive is yet to be revealed?!?!

Spoiler: Ari

i think 2 ICs, a vig and a backup vig is already pretty stacked in terms of town power so probably scum forgot to shoot at night?

I don't think Datisi forgets to submit a nightkill

I don't think anyone forgets to submit a night kill. This game has been so high stakes, and Mafia is clearly playing so well, the idea they throw at the night before ELO-1 is astonishing. As I have said earlier, either they were blocked, or they've done it intentionally.

Spoiler: Salsa

Yeah, keep the obvscum(s) alive and kill me, town will literally win

Yes, I'm vt.

UNVOTE: CO

VOTE: MR

I have no clue what to make of this. I find it suspicious that you have gone from being a pretty reliable slot, and fairly engaged in Scum hunting (from memory) to this. I feel more confident in my scum read of you by the hour.



I had quoted things from ssbm and Chaos as well, but upon reflection, they are all things I've already responded to, so I won't waste time and respond twice

[MargotRosa]

if they were blocked i think the blocker would claim?

i doubt we have a protective since the first IC died.

i can't think of a reason why mafia would choose to no kill and give the town an extra elim

In which case, who in this game do you see as forgetting to submit a NK.

Like, what's more likely? Scum has managed to mastermind their way to this day and forgotten to NK at a critical moment, that Enchant was BP or someone isn't claiming protective, or that scum has some reason to not kill.

Hell, the fact we are having these wild arguments based on this very question seems to me one reason to not kill.

Idk, I just think people are taking two scum who are foolish enough not to kill at a critical moment as totally within the realms of poasibility

[MargotRosa]

Also, for what it's worth, the "in your faction" bit was what made me wonder whether there was a mafia aligned vigilante in the game. Likely just a standardised part of role PMs based on others saying it's impossible

no, no, and no. a role-specific backup inherits the role as soon as one role dies, regardless of if the alignment is the same or not. the universal backup is the one that only inherits the same alignment's role. so there's no way that is a part of the "standardized role pm".

now, the reason i'm not going to kill you for this mistake alone is that vig is town only, so there is no way that a scum vig can die anyway. but to now think you're town, i also have to buy that the role pm was written in an unusual and indirect way. sounds more like you saw the sample role pm for univeral backup and decided to parrot it, not realizing they aren't the same.

which, btw, you should become a full vig once any vig dies. you wouldn't become 1-shot, and even if you did, you would have your shot regardless or not kyouko got her shot off. but i'm putting this one as a mistake that is more likely to happen during review, because normal games can be kinda wonky. but yeah.

I'm going off a perfectly valid nterpretation of a role pm which I copied and pasted from a mod, which specifically says "in your faction"

[MargotRosa]

Why wouldn't I have claimed universal backup then?

And I didn't quote. I copied and pasted. I figured that was ok

[MargotRosa]

I figured there was a difference

[MargotRosa]

If I need to bow out because of the mistake, then I will. This is exhausting

[MargotRosa]

Apologies

[MargotRosa]

I don't understand this universe in which I am some crazy mastermind who in her fourth ever game on this site, and only second out of Road to Rome, pulls on some totally bizarre strategy to buss a Scum PR d1, despite that PR being in no real danger otherwise, and given a now confirmed Town slot was at e-1 while I was pushing said Scum slot, and yet I also totally overlooked sending a message to mod to kill someone at an incredibly important moment of the game, and giving Town yet another day to discover me???

Occam's Razor alone dictates I am not in a million years Scum

[MargotRosa]

I have just checked the Wiki, and Datisi is indeed correct. As of November 2015, this site states that vigilantes in Normal games must be Town aligned.

That does not stop me from thinking otherwise, especially when I have played games elsewhere where scum aligned vigilantes are not uncommon

[MargotRosa]

Yes. I am Town Backup Vigilante

[MargotRosa]

I've done a forum search, and couldn't find any role pm that had a similar structure to mine, universal backup or otherwise

[MargotRosa]

If everyone is dead set on throwing then fine, vote away

[MargotRosa]

And I guess I do just become vigilante I guess. Idk, I'd need to confirm with Mod

[MargotRosa]

I've also been going through mod's past games, and it seems like they're all horrifically balanced in favour of Town lol. Idk, maybe we auto win anyway

[MargotRosa]

Well, just remember for tomorrow:

Datisi then Salsa, then Chaos, then Ari, then ssbm, then enchant

[MargotRosa]

I do actually wonder whether this is wild play by ssbm and I was actually correct to begin with that they are scum. Doesn't matter. My order stands. Will just be a funny reveal if it happens lol

[MargotRosa]

Well done scum. I tried. 5th times the charm I hope

[MargotRosa]

This is going to be such a waste of time when I flip green and you've all wasted 5 IRL days trying to find my non-existent partner lol

[MargotRosa]

Again, I was able to self-hammer. I didn't. Wonder why that was? Now you're just dragging out my death.

[MargotRosa]

I feel like it can be assumed that if Margot had waited for assistance in claiming, no matter who her partner was, he/she would have caught the error. Maybe Salsa doesn't catch it, idk. Not going to read too much into it because it is also possible Margot has slipped on purpose to make an experienced partner seem less likely to be partnered with Margot because he/she would have caught that mistake.

I would like to point out, yet again, that nine of this makes sense based on everyone's narratives that they've built around my slot whatsoever.

Again: I masterminded a situation in which I worked out that I could, with relative safely, buss a PR on my team because it was the most sensible given the format, and I also completely ballsed a role claim that I've been plotting since D1. Never checked a thread. Never anything. I'm just both brilliant and a complete fool

[MargotRosa]

What an end. GG Salsa. Real MVP, for sure