Mini 63 - The Family Reunion - Game over

[Tigris]

So it looks like only one killing group (unless one chose not to kill or we had two REALLY lucky docs).

random vote: polarboy

[Tigris]

First off, my apologies for not posting for a while, I have been checking the thread, but little made sense to me. That said, r0ver's claim really does not make sense. Usually, I dislike lynching vigilantes or replacements as they are easily proven/disproven, but I think you have already disproved your claim,

vote:r0ver

It was probably a simple error to have 4 to lynch, but since my vote is 6, you are most certainly lynched.

[Tigris]

Heh, it was something called midterms. Writing a twenty page paper for Russian takes a fair amount of time, especially when the teacher changes the due date twice. As to being the last vote, I was 99% sure he was scum given his claim. Normally, I advocate that vigilantes are given a night to prove/disprove their claims (via differing methods of killing); however, there was a significant flaw in his claim which lead to my near certainty that he was not in the family.

Additionally, what was there to comment on with limited time? That Gaspode started in 2002? Perhaps, discuss why there would be mafia in a game filled with mafia family members?
Although with the confirmed information that rOver/PBuG was mafia, one quote sticks out a bit when I re-read this thread.

Why would PBug start blaming Gaspode, if they are in the same group?

fos: Gaspode

, for now it is not enough for a vote imo, I just find it an interesting statement.

[Tigris]

Back from work, would have posted earlier, but was wayy too silly at the time, trust me no sleep=wierd tiger O_O, still kinda bouncy though.

Sorry about confusing you (and about not posting that things were insane). It was kinda wierd checking on the thread because the major points of discussion were 'Gaspode's a newbie' and that there were numerous mafia in a town populated by a mafia family, so every time I started to post something I would just start laughing at what I wrote, which is a bad sign, but I should have at least said 'here still'.
The quote doesn't seem as bad when I look at it again. He was implying that you and he were in the same group, so . . . but then again why trust the word of a mafia.

unfos: Gaspode

As to new things, Boo, . . . why did you claim? I'm tempted to vote for you for that, but just answering why you claimed should suffice for now. And I have yet to see a mason group that could not talk at night; however, that is not to necessarily say that it could not occur. The only benefit to it would be knowing that another person was innocent in addition to yourself. Usually, it is a bad idea for mafia to claim mason, simply because if one of them dies then the town knows that it was a lie. However, it is also bad for people to claim without provocation (i.e. reveal their partners or claim randomly) because it reveals that they are not doctors or cops, which are usually the mafia's first targets (well besides experienced players because they are the ones who are most likely to dechiper who the mafia are).

I think I'm going to go get some more caffeine.

[Tigris]

I like 'the family' best, just because we literally are a family, plus it has a better ring to it imo.
I can't imagine this game getting off to a better start. One CIA dead and one sleepy family member dead. Plus the family's cop is certain to have gotten information at this point, even if he/she chose to investigate Cadmium. Additionally, unless the doc protected Cadmium first night they also know one innocent. I am halfway tempted to say let's forget about the game aspect of this and end it here, because I honestly think we can end it fairly quickly, but it would not be fun imo because for me winning is secondary to enjoyment.

[Tigris]

One sleepy as opposed to a cop or doc, sorry Cadmium

[Tigris]

Well, we have a doctor, a back-up doctor, and a cop (in all likelihood). We also have two masons. Given that it is highly likely that the cop has at least one investigation that would be helpful, that would cut down the question marks to 5 (2 masons, 1 cop, 1 investigatee, 1 back-up doc). If the doctor saved someone other then the person that the cop investigated/the cop did not investigate the doc, the doc can come out with their saved and that number falls to 3. Lynch one of them, investigate one of the others tonight, while the doc protects the cop, and lynch accordingly tomorrow. The only flaws are those of sanity and god-fatherhood imo. Additionally, with a doc and a back-up that gives the cop two free investigations even if all three are known to the mafia, so to my eye this game seems very close to finished. Unless my logic is flawed, which is quite possible, this seems fairly simple to end, but at the same time slightly boring to win this way. (I play to have fun more then to simply win *shrug*) I am pro-town and wouldn't mind winning, but wouldn't mind losing either, just so long as I have fun with it.

[Tigris]

I am almost completely positive that we have a cop. Similarly I am fairly sure that we have a doc as opposed to role-blocker. As to what is to stop a CIA from claiming cop, the same thing that prohibits them normally. Additionally, it would be even riskier to claim it in this game because of the first night no kill.
Scenario: Some CIA claims to be cop. True cop counterclaims. Doc comes out with saving true cop on first night, CIA is revealed.
Scenario2: Same as first two parts. Doc did not protect cop first night, does not come out. We either test one of their results, or alternatively go after someone not investigated. CIA has a 50% chance that the doc will protect the real cop, so either must risk that (and reveal that the other 'cop' is CIA) or try to get doctor and back-up, ends up as mafia loss, imo.

Anyhows, as a way to test Boo, what is the name of Franky's daughter, i.e. what is she called?

[Tigris]

I still can't really get a feel for this game, sorry. It all seems to be going in and out of my mind too quickly. One thought is that Polarboy and Gaspode seem connected, so I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to find that Gaspode and Polarboy are mafia, but similarly I wouldn't be surprised to find both innocent (or one just attaching himself to a townie-role).

I would still like a name for the role from Boo, suffice to say I have a reason.

That said, malaprop is one of the few people I can only get a vague feeling for what role they have, so if I am right it should help to clear things up for me.

vote: malaprop

, blatantly for a role-claim. Oh and should anyone wish to put pressure on me for more information/thoughts/claims, so be it *shrug*, its been a long time since I honestly was worried about role-claiming.

[Tigris]

Okay, so it looks like everyone is waiting for either people to answer questions or waiting for someone to slip up. As to why I think that Gaspode and Polarboy might be linked, Polarboy in particular seems to back up everything Gaspode says. Personally, I am rarely very active in anyone defense early on in the game, simply because there is an oky chance that they are mafia, so that's why I find it somewhat odd.

[Tigris]

True, which is why I originally (and still) say that they could be either town or mafia or a mafia attaching himself to a town, or alternatively I could just be imagining things.

[Tigris]

I agree with Gaspode, a deadline would be much appreciated.

That said, I would still like to know what people call Franky's daughter from Boo, and a claim from Malaprop.

If I felt I could trust Boo about his claim fully (which the naming would aid/harm greatly), then there was another argument that I feel I should make, but until that time, it might hurt the town more then help it to make it. I know this will likely increase Polarboy's gut instinct against me, but there isn't really any other way to word it.

[Tigris]

Basically that I wasn't putting everything on the table and that it might sound like I am hedging my bets.

Secondly, I am tempted to unvote malaprop, but since the main reason why I would is to prevent a quick-lynch in the case of him being innocent, it will return if circumstances do not change.

unvote: malaprop

Hmmm, as to Boo, I am still fairly conflicted (they call me something other then merely franky's relative), so I am not sure about the claim, but at the same time, here is the argument I was going to make. It is fairly obvious that certain people in this game are not cops. There are 4 people I am almost positive are not a cop and 2 others who I am fairly sure/do not wish to disclose just yet (my role namely). That leaves 4 people and if the mafia are able to reason as I am (which is fairly simple), then they can likely cut it down to 2-3 people as potential cops. At this point, I feel the cop should come out, because otherwise I think there is a high chance the mafia will be able to pick them off. Consider me suspicious all you want for requesting that a cop comes out, but if they don't I think they may very well die tonight.

[Tigris]

*sigh*, so can we just 'randomly' lynch the two 'masons' now for not paying attention? I mean seriously, malaprop is named as scum (i.e. of the family) and then UT tells him to 'cry me a river, non-scum.' And then ID 'polarboy may seem suspicious, but that we should look at who voted for malaprop first and last', while pb was the last to vote for him. Please pay attention to the page to which you are typing, thanks ^_^

Anyhows, as to serious stuff.

fos: polarboy

for essentially choosing to lynch malaprop last second after Nehi essentially vouched for him, as his was the fourth vote and less then four would not have lynched.

Secondly,

much smaller fos: gaspode

, due to malaprop's similar response to him and PBuG/r0ver, but that role seems to be a bit bizarre, so I don't know if anything can really be made of it.

[Tigris]

I know the game quite well thank you, but perhaps, just perhaps I don't like it when people celebrate it when people on their side die . How about a modicum of politeness in the game? Especially when malaprop seems fairly new.

fos: UT

, because although mason claims are usually a very bad idea for a mafia to claim, this is a mini, so it could actually lead the town on long enough to win them the game, also there is the consideration (for me at least) that in all the games I have played I have never actually seen anyone use that gambit, so it may be strange enough to work.

Although, I suppose at this point the only people I am not at least slightly suspicious of are Nehi and Boo.

[Tigris]

Discussion would be helpful at this point. Perhaps this will help meaningful discussion.

1) I doubt that there is only one of any given relation to Franky, especially given that I am his 'brother'
2) I have narrowed who the cop could be to two people (actually I am almost positive I know who it is), coming out now would be highly advised, especially as you have at least 1 investigation result and with 3 investigations, sanity shouldn't be too much of an issue, and if I can narrow it down, the mafia can likely do so as well.
3) The night deadline was not reached before day started=all choices were in before the deadline=cop received a result and doc/blocker knows who (at least) one innocent/guilty person is. Combining that with the first night, at the very minimum that provides 1 person cleared, in which case the doc would be well advised to remain silent.
4) Why am I so sure that there is a cop? Because I am the back-up cop, 'Paperclip Tigris' is what they call me, which is why I was pressing Boo earlier about names. Why am I claiming now? Because I am irritated at the pace of this game (at least partially my fault) and hope all this will at least spark some discussion/information. Plus it somewhat forces the cop's hand, before there could be speculation as to whether there was a cop or not, now there cannot (unless I am lying).

Oh and I am finding PB less suspicious for his last second vote, I have voted for people because they were irritating me as well (if I am reading PB's post correctly).

[Tigris]

I'm not really sure about the pun of paper tiger, but essentially I use paperclips to pick locks to see what people are doing. I guess based on the reaction that few other people received a name *shrug*.

Benefits of the cop coming out now; sure to be protected from a kill, which will likely be aimed at him/her tonight if they don't come out, gives more information into the game and helps to direct the town. Essentially, three investigations in a mini gives the town a considerable amount of information, but that all gets lost if the cop gets killed, hence why I think it is a good idea for the cop to come out now.

[Tigris]

Okay, so to address a few things. Actually in retrospect, first off, yay, people are posting. ^_^

First off, serial killer role? Sorry, but I think we would have seen signs of it by now, unless of course they are the coldest-blooded SK I have ever seen. At which point I think they may very well deserve to win, just from the vantage point that I would be very impressed by their calm, but I doubt anyone in this game is that cold-blooded.

Second off, the name is part of my back-story, hence why I thought that most people would have received one, my mistake, but at least I am fairly sure that Boo is innocent because otherwise he likely would have claimed a name. Oh and I suppose I should point back to when I made my vote for r0ver, why did I not give him the leeway I give all other vigilantes? Because he claimed the name Nino, my name had my screen-name as part of it, and hence why the claim made no sense to me.

Thirdly,

fos: the masons

, I am very tempted to omgus vote for UT, but since we have more to discuss, I personally believe that the voting should hold off for now.

Fourthly, 'Trying to get a better role-claim out of 'him'?' Whatever, you say I am acting scummy, point to it. Prove it. Also, saying two cops in a mini is rare is false, even by UT's own admission (a whole 3-4 pages ago) there is little reason to suspect that and in the last game I played there were 4 cops.

Additionally, claiming a role like that with 5 people unclaimed would be tantamount to suicide for a mafia, when they can easily be counter-claimed and there was no reason for me to claim in the first place if I was mafia. To be honest I had scratched Gaspode's name off the potential list because I figured that he likely investigated me on night two after me being the final vote for r0ver, so when he voted for me I instantly crossed him off the potential cop list.

Anyhow, at this point you can lynch me or not, in the long run, it proves that there is a cop and that Gaspode is at least likely it, so either way I think the town wins. As to what Gaspode should do with his list, personally, I think it should be revealed and then if the doc has 1-2 people that were saved that were not on the list, he/she should come out, which would give us 5-6 likely and sure live innocents (assuming the 100% confirmed is Cadmium).

[Tigris]

I assume that that would be the 'godfather' mechanism. I had forgotten about that. Course that only applies to one of the mafia, so Gaspode can still find the other one (assuming there were 3 at the start).

[Tigris]

Well, since my role says I just practice until the time the cop dies (hopefully he does not), I don't have a night choice. In almost any other game I would add a vote to PB for (essentially) lynching malaprop last minute, but I have actually been quite irritated during this game, so I understand a vote based on irritation.

I think I would investigate ID, for reasons given by Nehi, but whomever you decide.

[Tigris]

Actually, I think Gaspode should leave it up to a number of people to investigate, choosing one specifically is basically asking for the mafia to kill them, which would negate the effect of the investigation. So I would guess that choosing the second most logical person to investigate may actually be the best idea, as the most likely may die and then that is effectively two investigations in one night. Just my two cents right now, but since it is midnight, they might only be worth 1 cent.

vote: Polarboy

, largely based on first day activities (i.e. staying away from the r0ver lynch and somewhat defending him), plus my paranoia that UT is the mafia godfather attached to an innocent mason, which would be furthered with the last post from UT. Yes, I know I am paranoid to the extreme, but meh.

[Tigris]

unvote: PB

sorry,

[Tigris]

I guess, but so have I so, oh well =/

Well, *sigh* with Nehi, Gaspode, Boo, and Polarboy (and myself of course ^_^) confirmed innocents in my book and my paranoia subsided for now, I guess it is up to Yanqush and Quagmire, who are both likely mafia.
I feel kinda bad since he and I worked together pretty well last game and I liked his style in that game, but

vote: yanqush

sorry, but I think you are probably mafia.

[Tigris]

Hmmm, the back-ups do unbalance things, but then again lack of participation on the side of the mafia kinda kinked things for them. I almost got myself lynched a few times and if they had participated more, they would have been able to get me lynched in all likelihood. All in all, with a tweak of the cop being paranoid or naive it gets a lot more balanced, but PB is the one that won this game for us, imo. Great night choices PB ^_^

[Tigris]

All in all a fun game though, if slightly irritating at times due to non-participation. ^_^ I was almost convinced that UT was some type of traitor mason who is immune to investigations, . . . maybe I am paranoid after macros' game. Thanks Kerplunk ^_^