Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

[bgg1996]

I'm here

VOTE: My Milked Eek

Why? Because I feel like it.


Btw, mafia: Please don't kill me on the first night?

[bgg1996]

Unvote
Vote Xine

[bgg1996]

bgg1996 what is your experience playing Mafia?

Around the middle-end of 2009 I played a few games on a rather inexperienced site. A bit after that I played a newbie game on this site as a... Roleblocker? It was a mafia role, I remember. I was about to lose, but I won because the time ran out.



The reason I voted Xine? There isn't much of one. I mainly voted him because he said I was mafia. I am a good guy. I didn't need much of a reason to change votes. I voted My Milked Eek originally for almost no reason at all. A random vote, I thought was best at the time.

Also, yes. I get rather defensive. I always do.

[bgg1996]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, this will be the first time I've actually played as a vanilla townie. (In my more inexperienced games, all of the roles had an ability)
Good luck using meta on me.

[bgg1996]

Does this mafia even have roles other than regular townies and mafia members?

[bgg1996]

"I didn't need much of a reason to change votes" = "I don't care who we lynch as long as it's not me or my buddies."

If I believe that there is somebody who has more of a reason to be lynched than the one who I am currently voting for, why shouldn't I change my vote?

[bgg1996]

I'm much better at being town when I'm scum...

[bgg1996]

I should come up with proof I'm not scum after today.

[bgg1996]

I'm liking bgg for a lynch. Not only is claiming VT D1 unproductive for town, it also means that if we DON'T lynch him, mafia likely will, since if he's town, his death would give us nothing to go on. Either way, for the moment, his lynch is the only one that I can say with any certainty I think will provide useful information for town.

I'm liking bgg for a lynch.

So then you want to kill me?

if we DON'T lynch him, mafia likely will, since if he's town,

his death would give us nothing to go on

.

To me, it sounds like you're saying you already know I'm town. And yet you wish to kill me?

Did I miss something? I thought we were supposed to kill the

mafia

.

[bgg1996]

You clearly have Nath covered my man; no reason to tunnel on anyone is there :3

But one vote won't make scum crumble and fold.

@Llamarble
I don't see why scum would think that everyone was vanilla. A role PM that says "Your buddies are xxxxx (roleblocker) and yyyyy (godfather) is generally a bit of a giveaway (when's the last time you saw a completely vanilla scum team in a 12+ player mini?). The one point I'll give you is his proof thing, though that depends on what he meant by "today" (I read it as the other meaning of today). As for setup ignorance...I see one way he might have gotten that idea, but I'd rather not make an ass out of you and me.

@bgg
1. Why did you think there were only vanilla roles in this game?
2. How do you plan on proving you're not scum?

1. Inexperience? This would be my first mini-normal. Sorry, but it looks like it'll be my death this round.
2. There is, of course, no definitive proof. No hard evidence. If I do find proof, it will most likely be making it less likely for me to be scum, but still very possible. I was going to come up with some after this phase, but of course if I am about to be lynched, thats another story. Anyway, it seems there won't be much proof this early, if any at all.

Although I'd like to thank all of you for suspecting me. I wanted to last long this day. If you don't kill me, I doubt that the mafia will. They will more likely frame me, or go for a PR, or something.

[bgg1996]

There is actually one perfectly good reason to not lynch bgg right now and that is this post;

I should come up with proof I'm not scum after today.

He has claimed that he will have proof that he is not scum after today. Therefore we should hold off lynching him today even if it is only to see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell.

Thus i shall vote Nathanael. I'm not quite sure he's the best lynch for today, but he's shaping up to be a pretty good one and is definitely better than bgg.

Although I probably shouldn't say anything yet, as it appears to be the only thing convincing three other people to vote me, I would like to point out before I get killed tomorrow that I cannot definitively prove that I am not scum. I have no way of knowing that 'I will have' proof, but 'I should come up with' some then, if I can.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

[bgg1996]

I never said I 'could'. I said I 'should'.
How could I possibly have had hard evidence? I would have to be a cop or something. I think you just said that so that you would have reason to put me at what_ 5 votes? 6?

[bgg1996]

Hop on.

[bgg1996]

It might be because he is scum and therefore knows for a fact that
I'm not scum.
Or maybe he is actually smart (doubtful)

[bgg1996]

bgg1996,
hey there, I was almost convinced that you are indeed a VT (in which case, the "textbook" says to lynch you anyway), but I just couldn't get over these things you said, in this order a few posts apart, no matter which angle I take looking at this the story simply does not add up. discuss

bgg1996 what is your experience playing Mafia?

Around the middle-end of 2009 I played a few games on a rather inexperienced site. A bit after that I played a newbie game on this site as a... Roleblocker? It was a mafia role, I remember. I was about to lose, but I won because the time ran out.

Does this mafia even have roles other than regular townies and mafia members?

I meant this game in particular.
The last game said that it was going to have 1 of four set-ups. I guess it just didn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

Say whatever you want, I'm one of the good guys.

[bgg1996]

@bgg
Right now the only useful think you can do right now is answer this

EBWOP: I want a link to one of your offside games where you were a town role.

If you can not produce any, you are not doing yourself any favors with that attitude.

If bgg is our lynch for today and he does flip town, I am thinking Surprise_Carcinogen and Hiraki might be scum.

At least for me, protecting my personal privacy would be more important than a mafia game. Especially in a forum where you cannot edit or delete posts.
Not to mention, one of those games would be from over a year ago.

[bgg1996]

Huh.
I said that I played 1 newbie game on this site, and a bunch of very inexperienced games on another mafia-unrelated site.
The newbie game had said, on the very first post, that the game would have 1 of 4 set-ups. I wouldn't use plural games if I was talking about the only other game I've ever played on this site.

[bgg1996]

It brings back fun memories, though.

[bgg1996]

I think I'll

unvote

now. I should've waited a bit longer to vote.
Although now two other people are going to come over and kill me for changing my vote so quickly.

[bgg1996]

What happens if the week goes on without a majority?
Do we not lynch anybody, or just kill me?

[bgg1996]

Neruz is defiantly putting himself on the line to defend bgg. this indicates to me that they are not scum together. GreyIce is very defensive, almost jumpy? I reiterate my willingness to hammer, should the vote swing that way.

Um. What? I'm trying to lynch bgg for blatant anti-town behaviour.

The instant he made this post:

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Eh?
I though it was because you thought you saw a contradiction in what I posted?
That's what you said in your post when you voted for me.
Did you mean that I "contradicted" myself by doing something that was scummy after saying that I was town.
Or did you decide that it would look better for you if said you had a different reason than the one you actually had at the time?
Please explain, if you can.

[bgg1996]

Where did she say that she thought either were spies. She said he and me couldn't both be spies because he was protecting me too much (she obviously meant Nathanael, but couldn't remember his name. They both start with 'N' happens to me all the time). She did say you were defensive and jumpy, though.

[bgg1996]

OR, she believes I'm scum, but also finds you moderately suspiscious, and will vote you if either people decide (rightfully) that I'm town, or I'm lynched and flip town (which I will).
Are you stuck on Xine being scum? Are you a day cop or something similiar?



Also, How ironic about what you just quoted on post 238. It contains ".....to accuse me of them in that tone but not useful enough to actually check if they're correct (especially since checking one of them would have required no more than fully reading the post you were quoting)......."

Do I need to explain it?

[bgg1996]

Maybe you should take a nap tooo?

[bgg1996]

@GreyICE Maybe you should clear your head before doing something else stupid.

I'll take your advice though: There is one player that, now, seems slightly more scummy than others.
1. They haven't been reading posts very carefully, if at all.
2. They now seem to be focused on a few select people, but their cases against them are shaky at best.
3. Although they seem to admit that a scum, no, probably 2 scum are voting for me, they remain to vote for me.
4. In their last post, they encouraged me to vote quickly, possibly in hopes that I would start a new wagon.

What do you think? Are they scum?




Also, what does ITT mean? It's not like I can look any newbier, and can't find it on the wiki or google.

[bgg1996]

Nevermind, they just changed their vote

[bgg1996]

Nevermind on #2 that is.

[bgg1996]

Ok, thanks a lot.

[bgg1996]

Yeah, I'm not gonna vote for that person yet.

[bgg1996]

Is greedling still playing?

[bgg1996]

So Neruz, why did you vote me again?
First you misinterpreted one of my posts, saying "I dislike contradictions" as your main reasoning, referring to my post. Afterwards you claimed that it was another post I made before you voted that made you think I was scum.

[bgg1996]

That is to say, could you "tell me why you voted me" again?

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?


Also Neruz, You say that I am contradicting myself by saying that I should

come up with

information that I do not yet have.
Based on how you wrote your response on post 160, in your head it probably went more like:
I have proof that I am not scum, I'll show it to you tomorrow. (Remember guys, I'm a claimed Vanilla Townie.)
With it said that way, why would you tell everybody to "see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell." You went on to vote Nathanael.
With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?



My vote is between:


Neruz, for among other things, contradictions and hypocracies.

Surprise_Carcinogen, for being so adamant about me being lynched and a few logical fallacies.

Nathanael, because he acts like he knows without a doubt that I'm town. The tactic I liked to use when playing scum was to pretend that I was a townie. It would explain why he was protecting me, because if it is like that, when he sees my posts, his first impression is that I'm what I say I am, and he automatically thinks up an explanation in his mind for when I did something "scummy", to see the actual reason I did it. Real townies will doubt the information immediately. They will never come up with an explanation in their heads of why this townie would've done this, because their minds automatically write me off as scum.

[bgg1996]

*hypocrisies

[bgg1996]

The tactic I liked to use when playing scum was to pretend that I was a townie.

Herp derp, scum acts like scum obv. And this too.

I don't get it. Scum will try to act like townie.

They will never come up with an explanation in their heads of why this townie would've done this, because their minds automatically write me off as scum.

So are you telling me that townies are supposed to think you're scum based off of your play?

Eye spy a slip.

Well, kind of.

You have to take things in context. I said that when a townie reads a post that they believe is more scummy than town, they will think "This guy must be scum!". When a scum reads a scummy post made by town, he will think "Why is that townie saying something scummy" and will actually wonder why I said that. They eventually come up with the actual answer. I'm not saying that it's impossible that a townie would believe that I was really what I said I was, but what role would have it linger in their minds enough to post several defenses in my favor? If I'm not mistaken, this logic would rely on the knowledge that I'm town, which it seems that only I and Nathanael seem to have. I'm just telling you what my reasons would be if I decided to vote Nathanael.

[bgg1996]

Surprise_Carcinogen

(1):

Who is voting for Surprise_Carcinogen?

[bgg1996]

1. No it isn't all the time. I don't know what you're talking about.

2. I kind of think that townies are going to, and already have thought that my posts were scummy.

3. Continue what?

[bgg1996]

I don't get what you're talking about.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?


Also Neruz, You say that I am contradicting myself by saying that I should

come up with

information that I do not yet have.
Based on how you wrote your response on post 160, in your head it probably went more like:
I have proof that I am not scum, I'll show it to you tomorrow. (Remember guys, I'm a claimed Vanilla Townie.)
With it said that way, why would you tell everybody to "see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell." You went on to vote Nathanael.
With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?

Are you going to answer my questions?
Or do you only answer questions that aren't

"

f*cking retarded

"

?





Also, if questions are stupid, that probably only means that the person asking them is stupid. Stupid people aren't any more likely to be mafia than smart ones, and while it may make it more likely that they are scum, it is not a good idea to suspect somebody based purely on how

"

f*cking retarded

"

they are being.

[bgg1996]

In other words, yes I am stupid, but you still have to answer my stupid questions.

[bgg1996]

In other words, yes I am stupid, but you still have to answer my stupid questions.

No, i don't. Hiraki has already pointed out how stupid you're being, if you like i can do the same; you're stupid, your 'question' is stupid. I have answered why i voted you and why i believe you to be scum already, in fact i'm fairly sure i've answered that stupid question twice now.

I asked two questions. This makes it seem like you did not read my post completely. Please read it again. Now have something to eat. You are clearly way too angry to post. If you are too angry, then your posts will not help town very much, and instead of conveying information that will help the town catch, and kill scum, you are making the town angry at you, which, if you are indeed town, make us lose another townie. Since the people who are reading this seem to be very dense, let me say that this is under the assumption that he is town BECAUSE this is what he would want to do if he was town. If he doesn't, he is not acting in the interest of the town.

Also, if questions are stupid, that probably only means that the person asking them is stupid. Stupid people aren't any more likely to be mafia than smart ones, and while it may make it more likely that they are scum, it is not a good idea to suspect somebody based purely on how

"

f*cking retarded

"

they are being.

Mafia typically hide behind stupid questions because they have to make up their scumhunting. Mafia cannot actually scumhunt because they are the scum, therefore they have to

create

scumtells, which typically comes across as stupid and\or retarded questions, often re-hashing points that were already made and carefully laundering quotes so as to make their fabricated case look convincing.

Did I ever re-hash points that were already made?
Did I ever launder a quote?

I'm not asking scummy questions that seem stupid, I'm asking questions.

I'm not the most experienced player. I didn't see much, if any particularly scummy posts. I have to find the scum, and vote for them. Otherwise, they win. I was looking for anything that might seem suspicious. What I want to do is to win it for the town. What you want to do is lynch the people who annoy you too much with questions. Questions help us determine who is scum and who is town. By not answering my questions you are acting in the exact opposite way in which a townie should act. You are doing things that may may lose the game for the town. You are acting in the preference of the mafia scum. Read over the questions, and answer them in detail.

I'm sick of your bullshit and i'm sick of [Redacted]'s bullshit. You clearly have no clue what the hell you're doing; to call you a newbie is an insult to newbies everywhere. Why you're playing this game and not learning how to play mafia properly in the newbie games i don't even know, but i suspect it may be because you are actually braindead and\or fucking with us. I don't know which and i don't care.

Does that make me any more likely to be scum?
Does that make it okay to lynch me?
Do you have any other significant reason other than an over-exaggerated poorly-quoted eleven-word sentence?
Are you even going to answer these questions?
Did you even read this post!?!

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

I sincerely hope that you are kidding. Please, let you be kidding. Please tell me you are kidding.

GreyICE, you might want to make your bandwagoning slightly less blatant. I know my explosion makes me look like an easy lynch right now, but it's going to look real shitty for you when i flip town, because that vote right there is so opportunistic it hurts.

I would scream at you for that bullshit about thinking aggression on day 1 is a scumtell, but it's clear at this point you've already decided what i said for me, and i'm all screamed out, so i'll just make it short and sweet.

It is not simply because you had an emotional breakdown, of sorts.
The reason is because, not that I necessarily do or do not agree with it, because you first said aggressive play was a scumtell, then flew into a rage and strangled somebody.

Fuck you, scum.

I do hope that you don't curse:
According to their posts, about half of the people here, including you, are still in grade school.

Please respond to any and all questions directed at you, or else necessary actions will be taken. If you are town, then you should have no trouble proving your innocence. The town should not lose a townie because you were too angry to respond to a few questions.

[bgg1996]

7 new posts were made since I wrote that.

[bgg1996]

If you are not going to answer my questions or even read my posts, then call me braindead and retarded, then I do not see how you could be town.

If you were town then you should be either looking for mafia or trying to prove that your suspects are mafia to others,

not

just call others retarded until they snap.

Your post is rather infuriating. Is your purpose to make me snap? To make me say something incriminating?


If you continue to refuse to answer my questions, my suspicions will be strengthened and I will be forced to vote for your lynch and death.

[bgg1996]

If you are not going to answer my questions

[

Are you even going to answer these questions?

No.

even read my posts

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

I sincerely hope that you are kidding. Please, let you be kidding. Please tell me you are kidding.

I am not kidding, i believe that reading your posts may actually be causing me permanent brain damage.

ಠ_ಠ

I'm not retarded. I can detect sarcasm.
Obviously you read the post, but you did not read my posts thoroughly, as to search for scum. You looked at it, then typed a response based on your initial feeling of hatred, did not include any information that could possibly be helpful to town, and continue to do so. You do not answer any answers whose answers may be helpful to the town. You answered the questions that would see if you even read the post, or had any plans to answer them in the future. Even if you knew the answers would not be helpful, it would keep a vote off of you which will get you lynched otherwise.
I highly suggest that you answer the questions now.





Also,

even read my posts

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

I sincerely hope that you are kidding. Please, let you be kidding. Please tell me you are kidding.

I am not kidding, i believe that reading your posts may actually be causing me permanent brain damage.

I hope you're still being sarcastic.

@Hiraki, who just posted while I was writing this, this is what Xine was referring to.

[bgg1996]

This is town flail.

Scum flail have much less content and usually use WIFOM. I'm not voting Neruz.

Okay. I give up.

How could your scumbuddy possibly have less content than a single bolded smiley.

[bgg1996]

This is where it would be nice to see a more recent game he played as scum, but he's refused to provide links from recent games, so I don't know.

@bgg
How would you describe your scum meta (beyond "try to look like I'm town")?

The most recent game I've played other than this one was at the end of 2009.

My meta?
Really, it would be best if you just looked over newbie 807 if you want it. It was around the same time and had a more similar atmosphere. I don't remember much of it, it was over a year ago, my memories of it have faded.

Although it probably wouldn't be best to base too much off of it.

[bgg1996]

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

This is what she was referring to.

[bgg1996]

Which reminds me.

I told myself the next time you posted, had at least three sentences, a quote, and the word "fuck". And have not yet answered any questions or otherwise contributed to our victory, that would be the point where I stopped making idle threats and actually put your life on the line.

Vote:Neruz

[bgg1996]

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

This is what she was referring to.

Yes, i know. Notice the part in that quote where i said i believed you to be tow-

OH WAIT I DIDN'T.

I don't know about that, Neruz has declared willingness to lynch someone he believes to be town to remove an annoying player. I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz? I've seen enough to have reached a decision
VOTE: Neruz

At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts.

I don't know about that,

Neruz has declared willingness to lynch someone he believes to be town to remove an annoying player.

I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz? I've seen enough to have reached a decision
VOTE: Neruz

At this point

i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts

.

I get the feeling that in your mind, everything somebody says is mutated a bit to make them scummier.

In case your incredibly thick head still does not get it, the only thing she said was that you were willing to lynch somebody that you thought was town. You said and I quote "At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town". There is absolutely nothing she said about you actually believing me to be town, which by the way, is very ironic considering how you went on and on about how you never said aggressive play=scumtell. You hypocrite.

[bgg1996]

You might have a point, but Xine goes on to say this:

I thought the plan was to lynch scum, wasn't that your plan, Neruz?

Which implies that i am currently going against that plan and voting someone i believe to be town just to remove an annoying player.

Which i am not.

What you're seeing here bgg is called

implication

, it's an extremely common and powerful scum tool and if you are town then you appear to have fallen right for it.


Unfortunately, i blacked out again while trying to finish reading the rest of your post. I suspect similar reasons to the last time.

I didn't fall for any implications. That would be saying that I believed that you believed that I was town.
Whoops, I almost fell for a loaded question.
I think that you are scum, and therefore already know that I am town, but I do not think that you are trying to give the impression that I am town.

Your posts convey that you would strongly believe me to be scum, but unvoted me because you saw that others were not going to continue to vote me.


What I believe Xine to be saying is that although you are voting for somebody you believe to be scum, you say that you would vote them

regardless of whether you thought they were scum

.



If you decide to answer my questions, depending on your answers, I will reweigh the evidence against you, and may decide that you are indeed town, given that there is evidence that you are, or lack of evidence that you aren't in your responses.

[bgg1996]

When did I EVER say that the questions were in that post, you idiot.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?


Also Neruz, You say that I am contradicting myself by saying that I should

come up with

information that I do not yet have.
Based on how you wrote your response on post 160, in your head it probably went more like:
I have proof that I am not scum, I'll show it to you tomorrow. (Remember guys, I'm a claimed Vanilla Townie.)
With it said that way, why would you tell everybody to "see what his proof is tomorrow. If he is unable to provide proof that he is not scum tomorrow then we will have a direct contradiction from him, which is a powerful scum tell." You went on to vote Nathanael.
With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?

Also, if questions are stupid, that probably only means that the person asking them is stupid. Stupid people aren't any more likely to be mafia than smart ones, and while it may make it more likely that they are scum, it is not a good idea to suspect somebody based purely on how

"

f*cking retarded

"

they are being.

Mafia typically hide behind stupid questions because they have to make up their scumhunting. Mafia cannot actually scumhunt because they are the scum, therefore they have to

create

scumtells, which typically comes across as stupid and\or retarded questions, often re-hashing points that were already made and carefully laundering quotes so as to make their fabricated case look convincing.

Did I ever re-hash points that were already made?
Did I ever launder a quote?

I'm sick of your bullshit and i'm sick of [Redacted]'s bullshit. You clearly have no clue what the hell you're doing; to call you a newbie is an insult to newbies everywhere. Why you're playing this game and not learning how to play mafia properly in the newbie games i don't even know, but i suspect it may be because you are actually braindead and\or fucking with us. I don't know which and i don't care.

Does that make me any more likely to be scum?
Does that make it okay to lynch me?
Do you have any other significant reason other than an over-exaggerated poorly-quoted eleven-word sentence?

These are your questions, at least answer some of them. Some may be stupid, but if you refuse to answer them, as opposed to giving the obvious answer, it makes me think that you have an ulterior motive, i.e. you are scum.

[bgg1996]

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?

Because threatening the town is anti-town.

I did not percieve it as a threat. If you did, well then that's great, I don't care.

With me claiming VT, what reason could you possibly have for believing that I had proof, regardless of what I actually said?

None, i should have just voted you for blatantly lying, but i decided to be nice and give you the benefit of the doubt. I have regretted that decision ever since i made it.

That's what you get for trying to be nice in a game of mafia.
In mafia you have to think logically. You cannot merely trust people on a whim, excepting some subconscious feeling of general scumminess, you have to weigh the odds and decide rationally which is good and which is bad.
Do you have a disorder that makes you misunderstand people?
For the last time, there is a big difference between have hard evidence and come up with proof.

Did I ever re-hash points that were already made?

You've spent almost the entire game asking stupid questions, with the occasional not-so-stupid question thrown in through sheer luck. So you havn't had a chance to re-hash any points, because as far as i can tell you didn't make any until about half a dozen posts ago.

Did I ever launder a quote?

Nope.

Then your point about stupid questions being scumtells was basically just a load of crap?

Does that make me any more likely to be scum?

Yep.

Does that make it okay to lynch me?

Absolutely.

So being retarded/braindead/fuckingwithyou is a big scumtell then?

Do you have any other significant reason other than an over-exaggerated poorly-quoted eleven-word sentence?

Obviously not.


Consider yourself humoured, enjoy it because i won't be doing it again.

At this point you sort of lose seriousness, or at least, the little seriousness you had.


I still like the "spock flying into a rage and trying to strangle somebody" analogy.
Did my braindead fucking-with-you retardedness make you permanently furious?
Lighten up.

[bgg1996]

Her post said "declared his willingness to vote somebody he believes to be town"
That doesn't say necessarily that he necessarily believes me to be town.
Not that I'm saying that I do not believe Xine to be or not to be scum necessarily.

[bgg1996]

Is this a typical first day?

[bgg1996]

being or serving as a representative example of a particular type; characteristic

[bgg1996]

accepted, chronic, common, conventional, customary, established, everyday, expected, general, habitual, ordinary, orthodox, regular, routine, set, traditional, typical

[bgg1996]

Why do i get the feeling that the bgg who posted this:

Also, if I'm not mistaken, this will be the first time I've actually played as a vanilla townie. (In my more inexperienced games, all of the roles had an ability)
Good luck using meta on me.

And the bgg who posted this:

That's what you get for trying to be nice in a game of mafia.
In mafia you have to think logically. You cannot merely trust people on a whim, excepting some subconscious feeling of general scumminess, you have to weigh the odds and decide rationally which is good and which is bad.
Do you have a disorder that makes you misunderstand people?

Are two entirely different people?

For the last time, there is a big difference between have hard evidence and come up with[/b] proof.

*COUGH COUGH*

proof

–noun

1.

evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true

, or to produce belief in its truth.

—Synonyms

1.

confirmation, demonstration, corroboration, support.

See evidence

. 3. examination, assay. 18. firm, steadfast.

*COUGH*

Sorry,

have

and

come up with

was what we were looking for.
Support is much closer to what I actually meant, to find more support against the accusation that I was mafia.

Not that it matters. I can't, and shouldn't edit my posts over a week later. You can pass whatever judgement you want to for:

I should come up with proof that I'm not scum after today.

Anyway, the reason for the switch, is at the beginning I was a little bit afraid of dying in the first round, not having enough fun, so I didn't want to look too helpful, else the mafia might kill me.
After there was a big wagon against me, I figured that the mafia wasn't going to kill me, because I was suspicious and could be helpful to them later by pulling the attention away from them. Like a shield. That was when I believed it was safe to actively scumhunt. It's not an honorable, or popular reason, but it's the real one.

[bgg1996]

Oh, before somebody makes a fuss about it. There is a broken bold tag in the quote because I was thinking about bolding them to make them stqnd out, but deided that that would be laundering quotes and deleted them

[bgg1996]

Or at least tried to delete them.

[bgg1996]

Hiraki: complete sentences.

Use them.

[bgg1996]

What is the support against against Xine? Or at least, where can I find it?



@Nathanael; That's too bad, you losing faith in me. But, what about the post seemed scummy? It was the real reason.
Would you tell the real reason or make one up as mafia?
Would you tell the real reason or make one up as town?
It seems to all be very WIFOMy, but I don't see what it could be that gave off a scumsignal.

[bgg1996]

What was bad about that?
I consider admitting willingness to vote for somebody that you know is town to be very scummy. I just thought that you were being sarcastic about that.

[bgg1996]

If anybody actually believed that the reason that I voted for Neruz because of that stupid remark he made, then they must be so bad at reading comprehension, they must not even be able to read/understand this very post.

[bgg1996]

Either that or they are too stupid to remember the difference between me and Xine.

[bgg1996]

Neruz has more contradictions than starburst.

Lynch the

r

a

i

n

b

o

w

[bgg1996]

You made my name into a verb?

I still don't see why everybody is voting Xine. It's not that she couldn't be scum, but the only evidence against her seems to be that she didn't get Neruz's sarcastic remark. Who could blame her? He did, after all, write "I'm not kidding" in bolded letters after quoting it.

GreyICE, you said that Xine was scum because you saw that he expressed consent to vote for you, and I see that you don't think that scum will bus this early, but do you really think that it's impossible that somebody will think that somebody else would bus their scummate?

You might have something with lurking, but people have lurked far more than her, and it's hardly a reason to vote for her.

Sorry guys, I just don't see a reason to lynch Xine.

[bgg1996]

If the Neruz wagon is scum garbage, what is the Xine wagon?

[bgg1996]

At three votes?

Exactly why are you so adamant about killing Xine?

[bgg1996]

The failure kitten in question would be Krazy. He (Greedling) voted for Xine at the very beginning, remember?

[bgg1996]

Sorry guys, I just don't see a reason to lynch Xine.

Who do you want lynched and why? Answer this with out quoting anyone, insult the question or otherwise trying to deflect the question.

Post # 270 just about sums it up. Basically, at least.



About that one post; I was not fishing, I was posting casually, I did not have time to get a dictionary. That is why now, whenever I post something that could be misinterpreted, I clarify whatever I mean by it; in case you quote me out of context again.

[bgg1996]

As funny as that post was, that is not the accepted scumhunting method.

Accepted Method = Reverse Alphabetically

[bgg1996]

Sorry guys, I just don't see a reason to lynch Xine.

Who do you want lynched and why? Answer this with out quoting anyone, insult the question or otherwise trying to deflect the question.

Post # 270 just about sums it up. Basically, at least.

....

No it really doesn't and it was made ten pages ago / a week ago, absolutely nothing has happened that you find relevant since then?

There are some posts that give me town vibes and scum vibes, but other than Neruz's outrage, which made him seem a bit scummier than the others, nobody else has done enough to put them on their level.

[bgg1996]

Alright, so in order to clear up confusion, [Redacted] is being replaced by himself!

Wouldn't this be more likely to

cause

confusion?

Not when he's likely to continue to post unintentionally from his TBM account. This way, he will in the future only be posting from his TBM account, and will no longer confuse anyone with random mis-posts.

[bgg1996]

Alright, so in order to clear up confusion, [Redacted] is being replaced by himself!

Hehehe.

An excellent and informative post that clearly indicates both your opinions and why you are not scum.

[bgg1996]

I have decided to round up a few of Neruz’s contradictions. Some of them are casual, some aren’t very meaningful, and 1 or 2 of them he may have even already “

explained

”, but I don’t see how this boy is “obvtown”.
Do not be confused by the lack of quote tags, these are mostly quotes, shown by the quotation marks.""



"Also because i dislike people who make dramatic declarations like that.”
“That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post."
“Fuck you, scum.”
(The point is that at some point, he declared me to be obvscum. (His current stance is that I am an alt, trolling the thread. (I am neither of those.)))



"Lynching a town player is bad, it is to be avoided, because the town does not win by lynching the town."
"At this point i would actually lynch you even if i had incontrovertible proof that you were town, just so i don't have to read another one of your mind-numbingly stupid posts."
(This one is kind of casual)



"It's day 1, you're not trying to make him fold, you're trying to make him crinkle a bit around the edges. You poke him a little bit, find a crack or inconsistancy, poke a little harder, find some more cracks. If you find enough cracks and make a convincing case, you might get a few people to join you."
"When i think i've found scum, i latch on and push as hard as i can, i don't just float around pushing people to see how they react, which is just plain opportunism at it's finest."
"No, people who push other players really hard on day 1 in an attempt to make them uncomfortable are, in my experience, scum. Typically i suspect this is because they are trying to make a town player slip up and give them some leverage."
"people who push other people outside their comfort zones have tended to be scum, i said this because i believe that in general, pushing people outside their comfort zone generates just as many false positives as real positives, as people who are outside their comfort zone are uncomfortable."
(I think he may have explained this one)



Also he made a fuss about how others thought that he said aggressive play was a scumtell, which was just somebody misinterpreting posts. Here are examples of himself misinterpreting posts.
“bgg1996 wrote:In other words, yes I am stupid, but you still have to answer my stupid “questions”.
No, i don't. Hiraki has already pointed out how stupid you're being, if you like i can do the same; you're stupid, your 'question' is stupid. I have answered why i voted you and why i believe you to be scum already, in fact i'm fairly sure i've answered that stupid “question” twice now."
"WHERE DID I SAY THAT? POINT ME TO THE LOCATION WHERE I STATED THAT I BELIEVE BGG TO BE TOWN!"
"Yes, i know. Notice the part in that quote where i said i believed you to be tow-

OH WAIT I DIDN'T." (Xine had never said that Neruz thought that I was scum.)
"There are no questions in that post you idiot."
(Also notable is that somebody (I forget who) said that I said “You are going to cry at my funeral.” (Neruz quoted the real post and declared it threatening town) I did not. I said that I was going to laugh.)








"Why do i get the feeling that the bgg who posted this:

bgg1996 wrote:Also, if I'm not mistaken, this will be the first time I've actually played as a vanilla townie. (In my more inexperienced games, all of the roles had an ability)
Good luck using meta on me.



And the bgg who posted this:

bgg1996 wrote:That's what you get for trying to be nice in a game of mafia.
In mafia you have to think logically. You cannot merely trust people on a whim, excepting some subconscious feeling of general scumminess, you have to weigh the odds and decide rationally which is good and which is bad.
Do you have a disorder that makes you misunderstand people?



Are two entirely different people?"

Why do i get the feeling that the Neruz who posted this:
“I find it incredibly amusing that you accuse me of making throw away remarks since that vote, when you quote one of those throw away remarks and take it seriously.

I voted Xine because i didn't like his early sweeping declaration, as you would have noticed if you'd read and quoted the entire post instead of only the part that you felt like reading. I havn't said much of content so far because there hasn't been much to say. Hiraki and Nathanael appear to be having a little slap fight, bgg pulled an early claim that is either painfully newbie town or very clever scum. Llmarble makes a good point about the early L-2 Vote, but i'm getting more of a town vibe from bgg.

Xine, on the other hand, has gone into massive lurk mode, posting only twice in the last two pages and providing no content at all in any of her posts. Her last post, in fact, consisted of asking other players their experience. She has consistantly failed to respond at all to all the people voting her and appears to just be hiding and fervently hoping that if she ignores it hard enough, it will all go away.

Based on that and what i'm seeing from the rest of the players so far, i see no reason to move my vote. In most cases any questions or pokes i would have done, someone else got there before me, which is just par for being in Australia and thus out of synch with the rest of the western world timezone-wise.



Nice attempt at manufacturing a case on me though, i'll give you a point for trying.”

And the Neruz who posted this:
“Did you fucking miss the part where i said, right fucking there in the post you quoted”
And this:
“In future i will remember that i am not ever allowed to forget things or become predjudiced against them. I will be an emotionless robot who never makes mistakes. Beep beep boop you're a fucking retard beep.”
Are two entirely different people?
(I guess this technically isn’t a contradiction, but still notable)






My favorite is “I dislike contradictions.”
The whole quote:
“UNVOTE: Nathanael
VOTE: bgg1996

If you cannot do something, do not say that you can. I dislike contradictions.”
It looks like this was the only post in which he capitalized the ‘I’, too.

[bgg1996]

*sigh*
I put those little parenthetical remarks there so that you could understand them.

1. Neruz says that he didn't like dramatic statements such as the one that Xine made at the beginning that specifically stated somebody to be scum.

2. You all seem to understand why this one is a contradiction. The reason it is casual is that he may or may not have been being sarcastic. I can't tell which. He quoted it and said in bold that he wasn't kidding.

3. In the first two posts he says that he should push others out of their comfort zones. The next post he says that he shouldn't.

4. In the parentheses, when I said I did not, I was referring to the comment about me saying that you would all cry. It may or may not have been threatening. I did not percieve it that way, but it doesn't matter, it's not even part of the contradiction.

5. Is about how Neruz said that I was acting like two different people, while he has quite a split personality himself.

[bgg1996]

There are a few things I find wrong with Nat's statement, but being that I'm limited in time at a computer, I'll adress the biggest one:
Nat finds bgg the LEAST scummy player available. I really, REALLY doubt "he has a better chance of being town than anyone else at this moment", and am beginning to gather suspicions about Nat's alignment from a defense this transparent. I stand by my choice of bgg, but am happy to keep a discussion up about it, since we're going to keep getting more and more material about other players in the meantime. We have PLENTY of time to go, so I'm not worried about lynching him soon, but it would take something more obvious a scumtell then "I'm so VERY town, and you're going to CRY at my funeral" to make me change my mind at this juncture.

Reread the original post, read the last sentence, and please apply a belt sander to your face with judicious force until all the stupidity, misplaced condescension and blood is removed from your system.

[bgg1996]

^Talking to Neruz^

[bgg1996]

There should be a law against people being this stupid.

Y'know. The part where Neruz doesn't mention S_C at all

You are not allowed to post again until you either find the post where I said neruz mentioned S_C, or sincerely apologize for being this idiotic. What I ACTUALLY said was that Neruz quoted the actual post, and said that it was threatening town, which he did do.


So, basically, everything that Hiraki and Neruz argued just now makes no sense.

[bgg1996]

Have fun at my funeral.
I'll let you know now, though, I will be laughing in my grave after the guy that you lynched because he claimed to be VT...
...Turns out to be a VT.

He lost all newb-town credit he had. That is not a newb-town post, that is a newb-scum post.

Why would newb-scum be more likely to make that post than newb-town?

Because threatening the town is anti-town.

The original post as in

my

original post.





I referenced it because that paragraph was about misinterpreting posts.


So are you scum, or just brain dead?

[bgg1996]

It is not.
That remark is not about you.

[bgg1996]

Oh, nevermind, I misread the question. Give me a second.

[bgg1996]

Uhh, it is in there so that I wouldn't have to make another post about it afterwards and change the subject.

[bgg1996]

Changing the subject, is it just me, or is GreyICE deadlocked into Xine being scum.

[bgg1996]

She might be defending me to buddy me, so that you lynch me after you lynch her.
I'm defending her because, well, I really don't think that her posts are scummy outside the range of expected variation. I really don't think she has done anything wrong yet. Well, maybe some things, but others are scummier.

Don't change the subject. Am I imagining it, or is GreyICE stuck on Xine?

[bgg1996]

If I said that she IS trying to buddy me, then it would.

[bgg1996]

Soo, what, exactly, are your reasons for voting Xine?

I mean, I may not have a big case against you, but the reasoning against Xine seems very... nonexistant.
From what I gather, you all thought that her declaration in the beginning was suspiscious, went into tunnel vision, and... ???

[bgg1996]

You call her out on lurking when others have lurked more, you call her out on bad voting when her vote was justified (still not sure if he is being sarcastic), Andddddd...... that's it.



I am not "buddying" anyone. I'm just pointing out that the case against her is

s***

.


And Hiraki, Why can't both of you be scum? I was even thinking of voting for you if Neruz flipped mafia.

[bgg1996]

Didn't I say that you weren't allowed to post until you apologized for being retarded?

For

the last time

, Xine never once said Neruz thought I was town.

[bgg1996]

I'm starting to think that Hiraki is what Neruz thinks I am.

Hiraki, why don't you be a doll and quote the exact post where Xine said that "she declares that Neruz thinks that the player he is voting is town"

Do not bother posting again until then.

[bgg1996]

The thing about ISO is that you don't see things in context.
Are you talking about the post that was directed at this statement?

, but i suspect it may be because you are actually braindead and\or fucking with us. I don't know which and i don't care.

Anyway, I explained the switch before you got here. Not that it's a good explanation.

[bgg1996]

Notice how despite that, he still thinks i'm scum. In fact the only part of his read that actually changed was that he feels Xine is no longer scum and Hiraki is null.

Yes, you heard me right, in his 'updated' list, he lists Hiraki as null with bgg.

Notice how his next post promptly accuses Hiraki of being scum with me.

______________

Scum -> Neruz=Hiraki>PR (since he replaced S_C)=Xine>bgg=Llama>Krazy=A_t_t_M=MME>TBM=DRK=GreyICE <- Town

He lists Hiraki with you..... at the top of the list.

Mafia typically hide behind stupid questions because they have to make up their scumhunting. Mafia cannot actually scumhunt because they are the scum, therefore they have to

create

scumtells, which.......... and carefully laundering quotes so as to make their fabricated case look convincing.

[bgg1996]

I am going to

unvote

Neruz. My case on him was too shaky. I think I fell into tunnel vision somewhere. GreyICE is looking scummier, just thought I'd let you know.

The main difference between Mafia and town is that the town should only lynch the ones they believe to be scum. The mafia can lynch whoever they want. They can even lynch other mafia because they can count that as bussing. They wouldn't have to make up a case on somebody, they could just follow the latest wagon.

Anyways, Neruz was right, my post was stupid and I humbly apologize.

Don't misunderstand, though, I still suspect Neruz. As well as Hiraki, S_C's successor, and now GreyICE. I'm reluctant to vote for Nathanael, because if he is town, we would be losing a (relatively) smart player. And I'll have to check Krazy. Remember, try to take things in context.

[bgg1996]

Krazy, the reason for the switch between clever me and newbie me was that in the beginning I was playing more casually.
And yes, I was trying to appear newbish on the outside. Just not for the reason you're thinking of.

[bgg1996]

I didn't want to die.

[bgg1996]

Hey!
That's not the only reason!
And it's not like I deliberately played badly or anything. Also, by appearing to be a bad player, assuming the mafia Nks the smartest one, I'd be pushing somebody stupider to die in my place.

And didn't I already tell you all of this? Or at least that part.

[bgg1996]

Sometimes people just seem townie-ish. Perhaps the only reason I'm not voting GreyICE right now.

That smiley is definately town-smiley, scum-smileys usually have less information and more WIFOM.

[bgg1996]

Don't listen to him, I am a jester, don't vote for me.

[bgg1996]

More questions need to be asked. This is going nowhere, or at least, nowhere good.

Krazy, Xine, Neruz, what are your thoughts on the other wagons*?
Krazy, Mute, What do you think of the wagons* other than myself?
Pappums Rat, What are your thoughts on everybody in general, mostly Neruz, Xine, and Krazy?
Llamarble, My Milked Eek, You two have kind of been lurking. Do you have a reason? Even a vague one? Do you have any responses to anything recent? Want to read over the thread to make sure you haven't missed anything?
GreyICE, What would you do if Xine flipped town next turn?
TheButtonmen, Who do you suspect, and why?
Hiraki, Do you feel associated with Neruz?

*: If we can call them that anymore with 2 votes each

Neruz hasn't posted in a day. I sure hope he hasn't killed himself.

Now just because it's been bugging me that some of you still do not get it: When you say even if he is town, I would vote for him, you are saying that this person is somebody that you would vote for regardless of of alignment. You are saying that you would still vote for him if he was town. You are declaring yourself to be willing to vote for him even if he was town. You are declaring that you would vote for a town player. You have declared yourself willing to vote for a town player. Nowhere in this does it say that you actually believe this player to be scum. I'm not saying that the vote was or was not scummy or opportunististc. I
I am saying that it did not declare that the poster believed that the person in question actually believed the accused of being a member of the town, only that he would vote for him even if he thought the accused was town. If you read this and still do not understand, then I am unable to help you.

[bgg1996]

Roleplaying seems to be a good way to pass the time. If only I could understand who was who in your scenario. The woman with the heart of ice is obviously Xine, which makes the paladin Neruz. The rest are kind of hazy.
So I might write my own.

warning: It will not be as good as yours.

[bgg1996]

So I might write my own.

warning: It will not be as good as yours.

Ack! Too hard. My memory keeps being inconsistant with what actually happened, and it will take too long.

I might rolplay eventually, but not (real-time) today.

[bgg1996]

Pants aren't supposed to go on your head?! This is news to me!




I think we need to lynch sombody. But who?
I still think Neruz is scummyish.
Maybe PR?
I just don't know anymore.

H**l with it: I support a lynch on Neruz, PR, GreyICE, and Hiraki. Not necessarily in that order.

[bgg1996]

And I was not playing badly. If I was, it was because I genuinely had no clue.

[bgg1996]

That reminds me, hypothetically, have the cops had a chance to investigate yet?

[bgg1996]

Ok, maybe that wasn't a hypothetical question.

Have the cops investigated anybody yet?

[bgg1996]

I thought I saw somebody acting like a cop. I'm most likely wrong, but that could mean either scum pretending, or an actual cop, who I don't want to lynch.

[bgg1996]

Initially, VT, VT, VT, VT, VT, VT, VT, VT, VT, VT, Goon, Goon, Goon.
Of course by now I get it.

And yes. Zero understanding of all metas. I went by the wiki's guides.

[bgg1996]

The second quuestion has no answer. This is the first mafia game that I have played in over a year.

[bgg1996]

1. All kinds of strange and complex roles.
2. Wasn't any, they weren't needed. Days lasted about a day.
3. Nope.

There were 30-40 people.

Can we please change the subject.
It's not easy sifting through threads on another website from over a year ago.



Maybe we should lynch the one who we could learn the most from lynching. The one who would be the most beneficial if we learned that all things he/she said was true.