Mini 1337 - Elite Mafia (Game Over)

[TeChNoWC]

Vote: Phenenas

for ruling the Zerg.

[TeChNoWC]

what do you think of the fact that coffee didn't follow up his own argument with a vote?

That he is a conservative player.

unvote, vote: milk

if he's scum, arugula is too. seacore is town.
discuss.

@mormon, is there anyone you think has done anything scummy? you seem like you're trying to avoid concrete suspicions, opting rather to go rng or, when forced to choose, picking lurkers (lack of content) instead of analyzing anyone's actual content.

On what do you basis do you make this assumption? And how could you possibly of three pages of posts? Do you assume that anyone that defends anyone is buddying and therefore scum buddies?

[TeChNoWC]

I admit this is my most inactive game. But its unlike me to be inactive, usually - I just have seven ongoing games and a shitload of assignment work, and the discussion so far has been pretty low key. I've only done two rather quick readthroughs but will try and pick up tomorrow, and get back to your question.

[TeChNoWC]

milk what are your top two scum reads?

arugula what are your top two scum reads?

phenenas what are your top two scum reads?

techno what are your top two scum reads?

sens name the person you think is most likely town

seacore name the person you think is most likely town

1. You: your posts contain short jabs and psuedo-questions aimed at players I have townreads on that sound like the lead up to a portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all, but reads to fall back on when voting for someone.
2. DT: he seems twitchy and nervous.

Nothing else that stands out so far. Milk seemed edgy but I agreed with his reasoning

@Poirot: love the Poirot tell. Would love to see meta on a game where you won as town and smashed scum out of the ballpark with massive speals of scumreads that no one else picked up on, rofl rofl.

Btw I think I need to

Unvote

my random vote on Phenehas, cool dp anyway.

[TeChNoWC]

Thomith's tone looks a lot more like his scum game than his town game. He's more aggressive as town. In this game and his scum game he seems a lot more timid, he statements are qualified a lot more like his read of Milk.

I don't know, I've never really played with meta before, but something Thomith is doing is striking me as 'very careful' in the way scum play.

Do have any meta examples?

[TeChNoWC]

@ DT your previous long, drawn out post/wall with lots of skirting around the edges, defending people, pre-advancing posts (which I pointed out to Llama earlier, is usually a scumtell for me) and nothing quite to the point. You've sinced piped up since then though, so it may just have been a skewed, isolated read. Not liking your OMGUS of me much though, its quite telling. Also your assumption that I am 'scum partners' with roflcopter is way left field, and I don't see any basis for it. Scum going in for the OMGUS attack with little to go on. Dude, you should have pulled the lurker card.

In regards to me ignoring roflcopter's post, im not sure what you are talking about. If you mean his rebuttal of my post, I haven't posted since then and I am doing so now.

So who is your top scumread out of me and Sensfan? Why aren't you voting me if you have the neighbourhood all figured out?

@roflcopter: call it a vibe. Why do you think I'm not voting? Nothing substantial yet. Pseudo questions in terms of questions I don't feel advance town, they just take up space and (attempt to) avoid getting flak for content. I haven't ISOd you yet so I may be jumping the gun, but I didn't see much scumhunting either. Not a massive tell at this stage, but given your level of activity, I thought you would have had opinions of your own. Again, correct me if I am wrong, and I will happily recant my statement. My bussing statement was probably pre-emptive, but people that sit back and pick away at the minutae of people's arguments, I find, are just building cases to later either bus or compound a scumcase.

[TeChNoWC]

Sorry, wasn't clear in my last sentence - should read 'compound a faulty scumcase with hollow reasoning'.

[TeChNoWC]

I'd prefer Technodeath over yours just in case the little birdy saying I could be paranoidly wrong since you are up there only by association and not by actions.

You should listen to that little birdy, because

1. I fail to see how we are associated
2. Even if there was evidence to suggest we were, you are working on the ASSUMPTION I am scum; which is fine, but hardly telling and a poor case when I haven't even been confirmed. I have no problem with you mentioning this might be the case, but having him as a scumread because of that reason is either paranoia or a hollow scumtactic.

Your reasoning worries me.

[TeChNoWC]

On my phone so responses
@techno
1. You used OMGuS incorrectly. I have provided reasoning to my attack. If I voted you indiscriminately then that is OmGUS. Learn your terms before you use them.
2. Telling me to lurk is more telling of your scuminess. I can see you squirm more of you're resorting to insults rather then cases to attack me.
3. I rank Sens fan then you Scum. Rofl is a special name on the list since he's up there by association. Sensfan has more logic behind my
attack. You have more gut. If I could double vote I would. Obviously I can't so I'll advance all my cases wih posts and votes where I can. Tellin me that I shouldn't advance either case is pretty basic scum tactics because I can vote and argue multiple people at one and catch all the scums this way. I'll make note of that since you can only tunnel from you.

4. Oh pleasE rofl copter ignored your questions you posted before. It took your scum read for you to continue to engage in your very own case? You're not even nailing roflcopter for this. This is why I linked you two. It reads as basic distancing. I shouldn't be encouraging you to scum hunt.

Sorry for the typos. On my phone.

1. You had nothing to say about me until I put you on my scumdar
2. I didn't tell you to lurk. I was helping you with your scumreads on me, since you seemed to be having trouble. Just letting you know that if you want fabricate a case, throwing in 'lurking' as one of your points really polishes off that neighbourhood stuff.
3. I never said anything about not advancing your Sen case, I said your reasoning for roflcopter being scummy has even more assumption than your case on me.
4. So now its roflcopter who ignored me, not me that ignored him? Please make this clear. Me watching rofl's every post has less to do with my so called 'bussing' of a non-confirmed player, and more to do with
a) I don't have a massive scumread on him, and never said I did, just that he was coming off somewhat scummy
b) I have six other games going on and this game is in its infancy. We are far from deadline, and there is plenty of time to gather reads. I was asked for mine, and I gave them. There was little weight in them considering its so early into D1, but I will gladly give them for what they are worth.

Frankly I find you jumping to conclusions and looking for reasons that aren't there. Please lay out clear examples of both I and roflcopter distancing each other, and I will be happy to follow up on whatever post he/I missed; but in terms of it being scumtells, is pretty farfetched. You looking to find such definitive cases so early in the game and elaborate on massive hypotheses on scum teams and plots and what not just seems super scummy. Maybe I should be playing your game, and saying YOU are bussing your scumbuddy roflcopter (and please, this time note my sarcasm).

Vote: DTMaster

Now, just so you don't jump to irrational conclusions, no, this doesn't mean I am jumping from the rooftops screaming 'DT IS SCUM! LYNCH HIM!' or 'HE'S CLEARLY BUSSING ROFLCOPTER' or that I will be reading your EVERY post with fine tooth and comb. What it means is, you seem a pretty scummy lead I am more than willing to explore, for now.

[TeChNoWC]

Challenge accepted.

[TeChNoWC]

Gasp from the crowd of supremely interested onlookers noted.

[TeChNoWC]

Disclaimer. Doesn't account for page 6 (general comments about page 6 in notes
section)

@DTMaster:

Re (Aragula):
I agree that defending people is legitimate. The thing that called my attention regarding Aragula's behaviour was that he just jumped in the middle of an argument/question with a question/refutation that seemed to counter or defuse the attacker. from iso #0 to #5, it's all dismissive, there's no arguments towards building a case or anything.

He now explains that he hasn't

"picked up on much that is scummy"

so I can give him the benefit of the doubt (Like I'm doing with others) but that stance on page 5 seems to be quite widespread and is dangerous. If a significant amount of players claim not to see anything scummy and they don't try and probe then the game comes to a halt. It can be argued that he has scumhunted with his questions but it's mainly reactive.

I honestly wasn't aware of the long weekend. I now realize some of you had mentioned it but I took no notice (Remember users come from all around the world in MS)

@Thomith

Thomith, I'll reformulate one of my questions to make sure you don't miss it.
If someone else does the same thing as borkjerfkin and votes someone they know, would you still find it scummy? I'm asking because I'm pretty sure SensFan and roflcopter know each other.

@TechnoWC:

1. You: your posts contain short jabs and psuedo-questions aimed at players I have townreads on that sound like the lead up to a portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all, but reads to fall back on when voting for someone.
2. DT: he seems twitchy and nervous.

SMEAR ALERT! SMEAR ALERT!

This reads like an opinion piece from a political opponent.
1. contains lots of words and adjectives and a mash-up of concepts displayed in
a bombastic way. But let's run down what it says.

- roflcopter jabs and pseudo-questions (what makes them so? has anyone else done this?)
- roflcopter suspects players I have town reads on (so?)
- "portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all" - (this barely makes sense. Too much lyrical hyperbole and quite the mixup accusing him of both setting up buses and future mislynches)

2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.

It's important to note that TechnoWC provides NO example for his claims. None whatsoever.

@Poirot: love the Poirot tell. Would love to see meta on a game where you won as town and smashed scum out of the ballpark with massive speals of scumreads that no one else picked up on, rofl rofl.

I don't really understand this. Because of the @ he seems to be talking to me. But then he talks about my tell in third person and then asks for meta (mine?) but then ends up rolling on the floor laughing (Twice)? Is that sarcasm?

Can you rephrase this and clarify the point you were trying to make, if any?

Not liking your OMGUS of me much though, its quite
telling.

How was DTMaster OMGUSing you? He validly complained about a one liner where you called him scum.

Then telling him what to do in a condescending manner as if you knew he was scum. More horrible smear tactics.

Your answer to roflcopter is quite convoluted. Either your thought process as town is a bit contradictory and too forward and bombastic or you're just making things up depending on what benefits you most.

Your reasoning worries me.

how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?

@SensFan:

5 pages on and you haven't scumhunted (in writing) ONCE. Just replied with barely in a non-committal fashion.

- RQS is bad. Inactive Game.
- Seacore is significant but I won't know how until later (useless for the moment and one could argue that is just subject to manipulation in a later stage)
- name 2 town reads but don't develop and evade answering why later on.
- defending your view on significant or attacking your attackers' view on significant.

Still without any scumreads, SensFan? Do you disagree that you haven't committed to absolutely ANYTHING in the whole game?

notes:

FoS: TechnoWC:

For his smear piece on roflcopter (and DTMaster).
Thomith and SensFan are my other main suspects so far.

I'm likely to vote soon but I hope to get both more content and analyze things in context. Maybe meta my main suspects a bit.
I agree with other players about Seacore. He puts his money were his mouth is. He's aggressive but seems to provide good and genuine motives for what he does.

Focusing in a scumteam association is a bad idea. It will shift the conversation uselessly. TechnoWC is, in fact, trying to discredit DTMaster entirely (and therefore improving his own standing) by attacking the alleged connection between roflcopter and him.

Page 6:
TechnoWC seems to be upping the ante. Every post of his reinforces my scumread on him. The amount of emotion, adjectives and personal attacks seems to be a trademark. DTMaster has focused on many people and has generally had a pro-town attitude. His only mistake, in my opinion, is to pair up people this early.

SensFan keeps acting as if the game hadn't even started. Nothing going on. Anti-town at best.

Uh, pretty sure it was DT that upped the ante, not me:

Ha it's on. Line by line analysis will follow with quote wall will follow after I run my gels for my digests in the lab today.

To reclarify, DT is riding me, not the other way around. Bias a little?

Roflcopter's pseudo questions are posts 28, 35, 37 and 44. I thought it would have been pretty obvious considering rofl had about six posts at the time.

My post to you was a compliment, lol. In reference to Poirot, the TV character? From where you get your name sake? -_-

DT 'validly' complained, but then also followed with a big speal about how I could be scum and in allegiance with roflcopter after I had posted about four times. That either makes him a fucking scumhunting boss machine, or making shit up on the spot because I offended him.

It's weird how you equate 'condesenscion' with scum. So, I have to be scum to act like a bit of a prick? Town are really nice, right? Also wondering why you think me attacking DT about connecting me with roflcopter as scummy. Dude, wouldn't you if someone made a bogus claim with no flip, and little evidence? Then telling DT 'not to mention it' because it will 'shift the conversation badly'. Trying to give an unconfirmed tips on how to slip under the radar?

'2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.' Sorry, were you talking about DT?

"how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?" what, the fuck. Know something I don't? His reasoning worries me just as it worries you, because he called me out as scummy and a neighbour after like four posts...

There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!

[TeChNoWC]

from a theory perspective DTM and Tech could be town vs town as scum might not try that hard to defend themselves, however the extent they have been going on at each other and the fact they could be easy lynched if scum if they left it makes me think it could be otherwise, however i want to hear more before making a decision.

i agree that the way tech has been attacking dtm it looks like it is because of a possible dtm/roflcopter connection, and in that last post saying there is "neighbouring" going on seems weird, as i don't see
a- why they used neighbouring in that context
b- how they can make up definite reads on

possible

connections.

Who is they in a and b?

What connection between dtm/roflcopter? Its POSSIBLE, but I was pretty much being sarcastic.

Hope your not taking my last neighbour comment seriously either.

I'm not getting this either "and the fact they could be easy lynched if scum if they left it makes me think it could be otherwise"

Please clarify.

[TeChNoWC]

Did you mean, left the argument alone?

Also, I fail to see how I have been 'trying hard to defend myself'. Or even DT, for that matter.

[TeChNoWC]

This:

"There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!"

Read it in context with the rest of my posts dude. A dig at the whole neighbour stuff.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that DT is town, sure. I need to look at some of his other meta, but claiming someone as scum and neighbour, and then SOMEONE else as scum by association, after 6 posts each is oddly untown, and sounds like keen scum to me. Plus the fact that it was right after I had put his name up as a scumread ('shit ive been detected, going into im really protown lets kill scum attack mode!'). Seems pretty scummy to me.

[TeChNoWC]

First, to everyone. It's Arugula, no Aragula.

I will attempt to build a more solid read on everyone. Though, I don't expect to find much from the ISOs as the game is just getting started.
Anyway...

Aragula

Nothing too important to get from him atm. The only thing I could find was that him and seacore have developed an awkward relationship. If in the future one of them suspects the other, it might be based on their emotions more than actual tells. This is most likely not the case however, as Aragula has a town read on seacore.
@Aragula
I would like to know who your scum reads are. I know that you don't have any scum reads so far. Though, If you look harder, i'm sure you'll find something.
[/b]

My top scumread is Tech. He attacks anyone who finds faults in his posts (DTMaster, Humble who are on my town reads) and automatically links them together. I would like to use one of his posts to ask him some questions.

On what do you basis do you make this assumption? And how could you possibly of three pages of posts? Do you assume that anyone that defends anyone is buddying and therefore scum buddies?

Change the page number to six.

Phenanas, Milk, URoE, SensFan and Mormon need to post more for me to get a read on them.

Uh, I never connected DT and Humble together, if you skimmed through all our posts and looked at my last line like Thomith seemed to do, you would have missed that the crux of my post was SARCASM. The ONLY indication I made ANYWHERE that they might be linked is that Humble seemed to be bias and giving DT hints on how to play.

If you actually read the thread, DT was the one making claims that I was linked to roflcopter, so on your reasoning I ABSOLUTELY EXPECT that DT should be one of your top scumreads, since that's the treatment your giving me. Recant on it, and your being biased scum.

[TeChNoWC]

Just did a massive post in reply to Poirot and had to sign in. Fuck it.

@Seacore: Your misconstruing what I said.

Attempting to respond to Poirot a second time.

[TeChNoWC]

Then telling DT 'not to mention it' because it will 'shift the conversation badly'. Trying to give an unconfirmed tips on how to slip under the radar?

Yes. You're trying to shift the conversation out of your own scummyness (your smear posts) and put everything into DTMaster's guess of a scumteam (And discrediting him for it).

And the fun fact, is that you keep throwing these subtle smears at anyone who attacks you. Right now, it's me. You're telling me I'm directing DTMaster on how to slip under the radar. That's an implication that I'm scum with DTMaster. Yet, you don't outright say it. You just smear.

'2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.' Sorry, were you talking about DT?

Yes.

"how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?" what, the fuck. Know something I don't? His reasoning worries me just as it worries you, because he

called me out as scummy and a neighbour

after like four posts...

(emphasis mine) Well, I get the impression that you think DTMaster is scum. If you think he is scum, why be worried about his reasoning? You'd just dismiss it if faulty. The "worry" seemed to be an implication that you were unsure of his alignment. At least, that's my interpretation. (preview edit: Considering you're claiming to be unsure of his alignment this might be excusable)

When did he call you neighbour? Can you stop saying neighbour for everything? Try and define clearly what you're saying. If you're accusing DTMaster and me of being in a scumteam, say so. If you're implying someone has the role neighbour, say it. If you're implying people are acting too friendly to each other, phrase it in an unambiguous way.

"Buddying up to someone"

is a good expression for that.

There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!

Again, this is the type of mild accusations that scum usually makes. Trying to paint your attackers as the scumteam without arguments and without outright saying so.

preview edit:

Hope your not taking my last neighbour comment seriously either.

Why wouldn't we? You've already hinted at a connection between me and DTMaster.

Read it in context with the rest of my posts dude. A dig at the whole neighbour stuff.

YOU are the only one throwing the words neighbourhood and neighbouring around.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that DT is town, sure. I need to look at some of his other meta, but claiming someone as scum and neighbour

WHERE did DTMaster call you a Neighbour?

I've iso'd DTMaster and looked for words starting with nei. No result

1. I'm not ASSUMING that you are on a scumteam with DT, merely observing. I accused you of bias, which isn't me guessing your alignment, its saying STOP BEING BIASED.
2. I was referring to the fact that DT seemed to be doing that to me, not the other way around. Again, bias.
3. It's more than excusable, because I didn't assume DT's alignment and you know it.
4. Fine, said we were both mafia. Neighbour is an easy way of summing up DT's case that me and rofl are scumbuddies together. In terms of my neighbour comment about you and DT, not sure why everyone didn't pick up on the sarcasm, but if everyone is assuming I wasn't, I fail to see why I haven't been lynched yet. This game worries me already and I can't see town winning, and that's from D1. You seemed to be buddying with DT, yes, but that doesn't mean I was suggesting you were scum; I was appealing to you to consider both arguments rather than pigeon hole me. To be honest I have the inclination that a D1 flip from me might make this game move back on track, but at this point I can see you and DT turning around and saying "well, it was clear Techno was acting scummy, so we did what we had to do. He only has himself to blame for being lynched"

Stop and consider what you are doing before more misinformed voters and scummers pop out of the woodwork and jump me, and also destroy any case that my townflip could shed any light on who is actually scum and advance town rather than being a horrible waste of mislynching time.

[TeChNoWC]

I'm not misconstruing anything.

By your own admission, you are saying that found a link between the two players in the way that one was biased and coaching the other.
That's a link.

So to say that you didn't link them is inaccurate.

Gee, now everyone seems to be doing it.

I said YOU COULD CONSTRUE THAT I MADE A LINK but actually, I was alluding to the fact that Humble was being biased; that doesn't make them both scum, or even either scum, it makes them misled town OR scum. Either way, it's not helping. My point wasn't to point them out as both scum; that's what DT would have done, hence my little joke joke. My point was that Poirot should stop buddying, whatever his motivation.

Again, I never assumed anything, that's what all you guys seem to be doing. I am merely analysing the situation.

[TeChNoWC]

It's hardly evidence, so no. If something blatantly obvious came up, I'm going to address it.

Scum don't usually buddy each other to that degree; they might buddy other town like that, but not each other. If DT flipped scum at this stage, I wouldn't presume anything of Poirot's alignment. I have no strong read on him at this stage.

[TeChNoWC]

Okay, so I misunderstood.

You've been bringing up things that don't help us scum hunt.

You're right; I've been somewhat disconnected from this game, and then DT sparked my interest with his scumread of me and subsequent '1v1' (or challenge, none the less). Then Poirot chimed in, and its been nothing but a stand off since.

Will do some ISOing tonight.

[TeChNoWC]

This is going to lose me serious towncred, particularly as I just finished saying there was little in the connection other than bias, but I will say it anyway.

What is the go with the Seacore/Aragula/DT/Humble 'alliance'?

I'm sure everyone will feign dumb at this point and ask for references, but I'm not terribly good at rifling through text and isolating it, but there are multiple posts where Arag, DT and Humble keep reassuring each other that the other is town. So basically I am wearing it for attacking your little tea party?

Also, wtf is the case on Sens? Other than lurker/hesitant posting, I don't see it, even after scouring through the thread + ISO's. I also don't understand DT's scumread on Mormon.

[TeChNoWC]

He seems to be trying to buddy in on this supposed town alliance. Plus I felt as though he skimmed through my posts, looking for a way to discredit me. He didn't seem to be reading either DT's or my arguments, whereas credit where credit is due, DT and Poirot have been (though I still feel Poirot has been misrepresenting me). Poirot's Pedit in post 140 was my biggest bias issue. He realised I had every reason for my stance, which showed that
a) he tried to find something wrong with it in haste
b) after a readthrough he saw an error in his reasoning, and was good enough to point it out, but still felt happy to keep it up as a scumpoint against me.

It shows me that his mind is filtering everyone outside of the alliance as potential scum, and everyone in it as town. I have always had issues with alliances (I'm not sure the nature of yours, but since Humble is a bit of a wordsmith when it comes to my posts, I'll instead refer to it as 'communal buddying') because, while chances are MOST of those in the commune are town, it gives the one or two hard-to-detect scum a free ride from the top scumhunters.

With DT busy, I still haven't heard his clarification of the post I or rofl didn't follow up on from each other. Can you clarify, if you know what he was on about?

From my perspective, I made one unthoughtful post and since have been
a) scumhunted by DT, called out as a buddy of rofl (who now wants me lynched)
b) told by Humble I am on a smear campaign to blacklist him and DT, and discredit town
c) misconstrued by the misinformed (Aragula, Thomith) and jumped on by would be bandwagon lovers (Rofl)
d) aggressively attacked by DT who wanted to '1v1' me, and then told I was aggravating him (from one scumread and disagreeing with him, then finding his aggression scummy)
e) Biasedly tossed to the side by the town patrol with the label scum after a sarcastic remark and a preposterous claim about a connection with rofl.

All the while, DT gets a free ticket to do and say whatever he likes.

Yay to alliances. Whoops, 'communal bussing' (ducks to the side pre-empting an array of flak from Poirot)

[TeChNoWC]

Sorry, last line should read 'communal buddying' (can't keep up with this proper word crap at this time of night -_- )

[TeChNoWC]

UNVOTE:
i guess i misinterperated it, i thought hit scum meant vote scum, but i guess you meant flip scum.
tech, you say it was not serious, so why are you argueing it so hard and trying to back it up, surely if it wasn't serious you would just repeat that it wasn't serious and that would be that right?
tech do you find alliances/voting blocs scummy?

I just found it surprising that people didn't pick up on my sarcasm, it read fine to me but I'm guessing thats because I can put the right intonation on it in my head
I don't find them scummy, in fact they are usually town motivated from my experience, but they nearly always have one or two scum amongst them that are coasting through and start acting town, and just bouncing off the other townies to the point that they become a mirror of said townies, and so come endgame no one can tell them apart in terms of their relationship with other flipped scum. Basically it gives them an excuse to buddy, plus reduces flak.

@ Poirot and Aragula, will reply hopefully tonight, gotta get this damn assignment done and mafiascum is serving as a great distraction

[TeChNoWC]

@ Poirot: I already stated my read on you to Seacore, which was that I couldn't tell either way. You seem town in your intent and scumhunting, yet at the same time your buddying + bias towards me had me thinking you might be scum, but nothing telling yet. You seem somewhat town to me, particularly after your last post. I understand why you might think I was 'smearing' plus my initial post on DT and rofl was pretty lazy, but I felt your riding of me was not relational to what I had said and you were reading far into my supposed 'motivations'. At the same time I felt you weren't doing the same for DT, and in fact quite the opposite; you were defending his scummy actions and even giving pointers as to how to react to me. That didn't necessarily make me think you were scum, just that you skewed in your thinking. My initial read on DT and subsequent post was merely a vibe read, since he rambled a lot and seemed nervous; I've never played with DT and I felt entitled to say this without any need to back it up, because it wasn't as if I was on a scumhunt rampage to nail his arse. It was just a vibe, and I don't play by vibes, but I certainly look into them.

DT's response to me seemed to suggest my initial vibe on him was wrong, but his claim that 'I was likely scum, and therefore rofl was too simply by association' just seemed like scum on the attack. I'm not sure why you didn't feel this was, yet me pointing out how scummy it was makes me scum?

@ Arugula: Not on purpose, I remember you not liking your name being spelt wrong but I actually thought I had the right spelling, and 'u' was the wrong one. I didn't ask you to reply, I said I was going to reply to you. Fair enough that maybe my sarcasm wasn't obvious, but your initial response read to me as 'just looked at the last post, didn't read the rest of the argument'. And now again more bias, when I am getting jumped on for suspecting a link (which, I might add, has now been affirmed and my suspicions were correct) between Humble/DT. Yet I never was adamant they were scum together, or that there link was any more than an ingame one, or even adamant at all, I simply suggested it. But DT on the other hand MAKES CLAIM I AND ROFL ARE SCUM BUDDIES FROM ONE POST, and he gets nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist. Just 'oh no mister good towny, you shouldn't say that'. My point exactly about the dangers of alliances.

@Thomith: By sheer maths, no more than one, but a good chance there is one. Yet one amongst four is enough to be a serious issue; and there is still every possibility, even if unlikely, that there is more. But again the problem then comes when, say for instance, DT flips scum and then we consider 'well, according to the maths the rest of them are town'. No, the point is, EVERYONE should be suspect because we have no idea. Heck, all four of them could be scum, or none, but we should assume nothing, and therefore, make no alliances. Unbiased, everyone suspect, anyone potential for scum and therefore a lynch. NEVER assume.

[TeChNoWC]

while i don't like the fact that milk has lurked through the last few days of him being the leading wagon, its time for a change of pace.

unvote, vote: techno

i would also be happy with a thomith vote here, but i think techno is more likely to hit scum. dt should put his money where is mouth is and join me here.

with all the hypothetical scumpairs i'm being included in you'd think someone would try to point out some way that i'm scummy on my own. oh, whats that? no one can? ok, moving on then.

This post bothered me. Not the 'hit scum' bit that Thomith referred (he seemed to be genuinely referring to a flip), but the fact that
a) he feels my lynch might hit scum, not a very confident read but enough to want to vote me over his scumread thomith (because that wasn't taking off) and
b) he says he wants a 'change of pace'. I'm not sure if he was referring to it being a pressure vote, but I get the inclination that it's a way of saying 'game is getting boring, let's push for a quicklynch without giving it much thought and we MIGHT hit scum'.

He also failed to give reason as to why I seemed scummy, and made no reference to ever having a scumread on me, but simply wants jump in on the current player in the limelight of being potential scum. 'changing the pace' so that others will be more motivated to vote me.

It seems like a 'oh look here, a mislynch! I'll go for that'.

[TeChNoWC]

Argh hit the damn post button too early.

@ rofl: What is your read on me and why? Why did you vote me over Thomith, and why do you feel this game needs a 'change of pace'? Are you eager to lynch or actually confident I am scum?

[TeChNoWC]

had me thinking you might be scum,

surely everyone "might be scum" so how does this change his situation to anyone elses?

also if done right alliances can be very bad for scum, however this may be a little early but it still could be a threat, i have nothing against them if they are done right with people that genuinly are probtown after a long period of time.

It made me SOMEWHAT suspicious but nothing telling. Not sure what your point is though, Poirot's not on my scumdar. I already stated that my main analysis was that he was simply town doing bias buddying.

Maybe alliances can be bad for scum later in the game, but D1 it's a stupid move. Any good player can make himself look town D1 no problems. So all someone's gotta do is act towny D1, and they're in the club. Free ride to victory.

If you are going to do alliances, I suggest you do it later in the game, maybe D2 or 3, when the game has been going longer than ten posts per person and there has been a flip. As of now, it seems like such a risky tool it's not even funny. Put it this way; if I was scum and everyone was starting up an alliance, I'd probably jump at the chance, even if it meant killing off all my scumbuddies until I was the only one left midgame. That's how confident I am that D1 alliances produce endgame victories for scum; easy win.

[TeChNoWC]

I understand your point about alliances, but since when is there an alliance? If you are talking about me, Seacore, DT, and Humble, Seacore and I had a little argument before and they all don't feel I'm overwhelmingly town apparently.

And I see that DT linked you and rofl, and it is scummy, but your linking of DT and Humble seemed more OMGUS rather than logic.

How? They admitted it. I might have been somewhat riled up by DT's 1v1, but Humble seemed to be clearly buddying DT. That's the only claim I made, and it was true (to some degree), so pretty logical reasoning on my part.

Even still, there is an 'alliance' of sorts between DT, Humble and Seacore, and I don't think it's helping the game. Also, no one has commented on my post on rofl yet, NOR pointed out where I or rofl missed up on one another's posts that seemingly started this whole suspicion of me in the first place.

[TeChNoWC]

Seacore did say that, but it is still not a full fledged voting alliance that is wiping out players. They don't always agree with one another either.

No you're right it's not, but it's still a concern of mine; like I said scum can lurk in it. Either way, we are getting too bogged down in discussion about alliances when we should be focusing on finding scum.

You said you found DT's reasoning scummy. Do you think he is scum or town?

What do you think of roflcopter's vote on me? Read my analysis post on it.

What do you think of the case on Sensfan? Does he seem scummy to you?

Anyone else seem particularly scummy?

[TeChNoWC]

My case on Sens is the way that he's avoided taking stances. He tried to fling mud on me by calling what I did 'significant' and then saying it doesn't help with a read on me. In the absence of any town behaviour whatsoever, this is worth a vote.

I don't see what Sens did as a lynchable offense. He's lurkerish and his reasoning on you was stupid, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum. Personally I would like to hear more input from him before deadline, if at all possible.

Sensfan, what are your scumreads?

Seacore, what do you think of rofl and his vote on me? It looked pretty scummy to me.

[TeChNoWC]

I don't really care who's voting for you right now, since I think you're probably scum. I'm not the kind of person that jumps off wagons because I don't like who else is voting.

You never actually stated why you think I am scum. I answered all your questions and concerns and yet you couldn't and didn't provide any sound reasoning as to why I am scum.

And your logic is bad. Your pigeon holing, just like Humble was. Your assuming I am scum, when there is every possibility I am town, and thus you are willing to overlook the activities of others whenever you have a suspicion someone is scum. Scum will have a field day with you later, and now, whenever you find someone scummy that is actually town, they will jump at the chance to mislynch, because you'll give them a free ticket.

Tell me how attacking your towntells makes me scum when that doesn't mean they are my towntellls; the strong towntell players aren't likely to be targeted by scum. What scum would risk drawing that sort of attention to themselves when they could simply play off your tells and bandwagon to mislynch?

Ever wondered why there are so many players lurking and going under the radar at the moment? Because the powerbase in this game isn't after lurkers, and isn't interested enough in the reasoning behind people's votes. I'd say there are one or two lurkerscum out there that are happy to coast, because so far it's working for them. And you're protecting them. The only one who seems to be in the firing line is Sensfan.

[TeChNoWC]

top 2 scumreads:
roflcopter - for what i thought was a slip but was told by a few players i was wrong, however i still find it iffy
tech - some of the things he says just seems waaay off, and i don't like the way he dismisses some things he gets questions about as "sarcasm"

@seacore, but i dont like that logic, if you have a lot of iffy people on a wagon doesn't it make you think you could be making a wrong move?

I don't like your logic on rofl, or on me. You suggesting I actually accused DT and Humble for being scum neighbours? Go back and actually read my posts.

And your reasoning for rofl was bad, and you weren't just 'told by a few players'. You agreed that's what he meant after clarification. I don't know why he is still on your scumdar for that, and it seems really sus.

[TeChNoWC]

it still seems iffy, even if i agreed i was just reading it wrong, but it is still in my mind, also it isnt because you accused them of being "scum neighbours" because you didn't but i dont see how linking neighbours and then when questioned saying it was sarcasm helps us.

To display how bad DT's reasoning and assumptions were (I think I proved my point by the amount of attention I got from the statement). That an allusion could be drawn between DT and Poirot as easily, if not for better reasons, than me and rofl, and that doing so was assuming and bad logic that leads to mislynches - and potentially a scummy tactic.

[TeChNoWC]

THIS REEKS OF DISTANCING. CALLING IT NOW, EARLY TECHNO AND ROFLCOPTER linkage to be scum buddies since reading between the lines this looks like distancing between the parties.

Have you even been reading the thread?

[TeChNoWC]

Your only point on me was that I was 'bringing up things that didn't help scumhunting'.

How many other players are doing this?

Am I somehow worse than them?

How are you not now doing the same by not responding to my points, not stating your case clearly and giving free admission for lurkers to vote for whoever they want as if it wasn't scummy?

You three should not have the power base. DT scummy, Poirot biased and short sighted, you unwilling to give input.

I have little ability to turn this game around but damned if I won't try. If I get lynched for it, so be it. I just hope my flip doesn't rub off bad on town, because I have you down as one of us.

Vote: roflcopter

Most appropriate lynch today.

My argument with DT was valid, and you know it. My argument with Humble was valid, and you know it.

[TeChNoWC]

so neighbours relate to his linking how?

Because scum ARE neighbours.

[TeChNoWC]

im a little confused by that, how so?

Maybe I am not understanding the term neighbours correctly, but unless there are multiple scumteams, scum share a QT during the night, and know each other's alignment (not necessary for neighbours, but still). I doubt there would be multiple scumteams in a setup like this, plus that is irrelevant anyway; DT suggested we were linked in that we knew each other's alignment, so he was saying not just that we were scum, but that we were scum neighbours (scumteam).

The wording is semantics really, he called as a scumteam after very few posts.

[TeChNoWC]

i guess, however a scumteam is different as they want to kill the town, and neighbours are trying to help and don't know each others allignment so tells for both teams are very different, as are both teams

I thought neighbours could refer to any type of neighbourhood, even a scum one, but either way my point still stands.

I'll try to be clearer next time but I felt 'neighbour' was stronger than 'scumbuddies' because my sarcasm was emphasizing the fact of the stupid link more than the claim we were both scum.

Check DT's iso around that post, he also considered rofl as scum 'merely' by association of me, after a handful of posts, and no confirmation on my alignment.

[TeChNoWC]

Seacore is my top scumread.
Milk is second.

Huh. A post of mine disappeared. That's really weird. Anyways,

Vote: Seacore.

. I meant to do that ages ago.

What is this? How can a post 'disappear?' Are you trying to pull wool over everyone's eyes by suggesting you might have actually contributed more to this game than you have?

I don't buy it one bit. You've gone from lurkerish and unexplaining, to downright lying and misleading, and ignoring the thread or the arguments posed against you. Are you scum? Should we lynch you?

Do you have anything to say in your defense, or anything else to say about your stupid case on Seacore?

Unvote
Vote: Sensfan

Seems I may have been wrong about DT's and Seacore's instincts.

SENSFAN IS NOW ON L-1!!

It seems no amount of pressure other than an L-1 will make you respond.

No one hammer before a claim.

Pedit: Just realized you are only on L-2, nevertheless what I said still stands. Seacore respond.

[TeChNoWC]

Ah yes it is, I was having a mindfuck because my initial count made six, and then I only counted five on preview. Der, I forgot to count myself *smacks head*

[TeChNoWC]

@TeChNoWC:

At the same time I felt you weren't doing the same for DT, and in fact quite the opposite; you were defending his scummy actions and even giving pointers as to how to react to me.

I didn't see them as scummy actions. But huge alarm bells rang when I read your posts.

Can you enumerate the pointers? (Not to talk about scumteams...?)

But DT on the other hand MAKES CLAIM I AND ROFL ARE SCUM BUDDIES FROM ONE POST, and he gets nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist. Just 'oh no mister good towny, you shouldn't say that'.

I, for one, don't see how terrible that is. It's like roflcopter's bold "if X is scum Y is scum". Many players do that sort of thing but don't actually believe it with emphasis.

You get town points in my book for being consistent with what you believe in. I disagree with it but I note that you started jumping at roflcopter for the scumteam issue and later thought DTMaster was scummy for the same reason.

You three should not have the power base. DT scummy, Poirot biased and short sighted, you unwilling to give input.

Woah. Just when I was starting to like you.

Give me the benefit of the doubt, will you? You've admitted your own post was lazy (I still believe it has all the components of smear although I now believe you're likely town and so is DT who has done barely anything scummy in my eyes. And I don't view overconfidence or scumteam guessing as scummy in itself.)

1. Yeah, gimme a sec to isolate exactly what you said that bugged me and I will post it in my next post, I'm still having issues scrolling through text and isolating parts of it through all the command jargon Basically though I felt you were picking on me for all the things DT was doing too. I found some of your points on me valid, but blown out of proportion. However, they applied to DT more, I thought. Smear campaign against me (and he was planning more with his '1v1' and 'walls of quotes' threat at me) which was something you accused me of doing, bad scumhunting (my initial post was lazy and based off vibes, because I hadn't read enough of the post but I still wanted to reply when asked, and so I gave my reads based off my vibes at the time) which was a fair point to make about my initial post, I agree; but DT's later assertions of me and rofl were much much worse, and you, assuming he was town, just told him he shouldn't do it rather than 'hang on a minute; is this guy for real?'. No one STILL has pointed out his case on me about rofl and I have asked a million times, and I am the only one pulling him up for it.
2. I regretted saying that after I posted. Bias I won't take back, because I still feel you were, but since then you've looked at it more critically and me saying you were short-sighted was probably uncalled for. I just had no other way of conveying my frustration. Even before I made that post you seemed to be analysing the situation in a very unbiased manner and I didn't take that into account when I wrote that comment, I just gave in to my frustrations, so I apologise.

I understand yours and Seacore's points that DT may have just been aggro town and there was nothing scummy in his approach, and this may be true. I am eager to hear back from DT on the matter. I still want to know what his case was on me and rofl not responding to each other as that was the crux of the entire debate, and at the moment I still have my reservations about his 'perceived towniness' by everyone else. If anyone else knows what he was referring to it would be helpful to let me know.

[TeChNoWC]

"Focusing in a scumteam association is a bad idea. It will shift the conversation uselessly" you said that to DT in post 131 as though giving him pointers on how to respond to me.

Also as I already mentioned, your Pedit in post 140.

Anyway, I'm satisfied with your play recently and I don't feel the need to constantly argue on about this bias stuff, but just for clarification, they were two main things you said that peeved me.

Oh and clarification on the Poirot tell comment, my nan watches it relentlessly. He always has these elaborate theories that always turn out true. I'd just love to see that happen in a game where you managed to smash scum out of the ballpark with little evidence to go on, would be an interesting allusion to the TV character

@Sensfan: wanted to make this clear so it didn't get lost to you in your lurkerish skimming of the posts, RESPOND TO THE CASE AGAINST YOU AND CLAIM.

[TeChNoWC]

I need to catchup with this explosion of posts.

Saw the bit on wanting to get rid of UN. I personally have no problem with UN playing and I don't think players should have a say on the issue, anyway.

Uber I am town, and if I am lying feel free to PL me in every game we ever play hereafter, no questions asked. Not sure why would threaten me with that though, or what you were hoping to achieve.

[TeChNoWC]

He's not going to claim, can we hammer now?

Yeah, he said he wasn't, but at the moment three players have just replaced in and I think using the time to promote discussion with them is pertinent.

Humble Poirot: I won't review my predessesor unless you have a really good reason to do so. I have one note on Milk from before I realized he was who I replaced you can have though when I did my first read through:

"Milk:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4055237
Your post does nothing more than extend the issue you state problems with."

TeChNoWC is a more solid scumread now. His walls seem like he intentionally is trying to make big posts and drown the game.

TeChNoW and Poriot: Succinctly say 1) what your point in your conversation is 2) why it is a useful conversation to have.

Succinctly.

I wanted Poirot to reconsider his stance on DT because I found DT's posts scummy, and for a lot of the reasons he accused me of. I felt his initial town assertion over DT was influencing his reads, and that going by vibes one gathered that early in the game is detrimental to town.

[TeChNoWC]

Yup, minus my initial one which was a vibe, and as I pointed out I was wrong about that vibe and he has since changed his tune.

[TeChNoWC]

I'm not sure I get your point about the conversation being meaningless though. I felt like it was dragging on, but so what. Shit happens.

[TeChNoWC]

@DTMaster: I get Junpei's point, since probably most of what you are going to say has already been covered, but if you want to and feel compelled to post that is your perogative. You don't have to take queues from Junpei.

[TeChNoWC]

I don't like the way Uber pretty much threatened techno in they question.
a- the question is a dumb question anyway, i wonder what people would answer...
b- the threat just seems bleh, as if scum put that there to try and get the "truth" out of people.

also ninja, i took around a 5/6 month break from mafia, so i am rusty, but i think i am at least getting better.
Ice can you explain why you think DTM is bussing, "he is bussing" doesn't cut it for me.
Ice is not explaining anything, i am doing research and seeing if this is their general play or not then getting back to you, this will be coming today/tommurrow

I have some suspicions as to why UN asked that question, but I can't divulge information since it pertains to an ongoing game. Basically it was an experienced-based reaction test.

Why do you think UN was scum for asking it?

Anyway, so many games at the moment and last week of uni semester. Will try and catchup read otherwise I will need to VL/A for a few days.

[TeChNoWC]

@Junpei
What's scummy about refusing to explain reads? If sensfan were scum, why would he refuse to explain his reads?

Are you implying you don't find Sensfan scummy?

If so, why are you voting for him?

[TeChNoWC]

Sensfan is today's lynch. That much is obvious.

Let's start a counterwagon. Techno or absta, what do you think?

If Sens flips scum, you know this looks incredibly sus, right?

The DT attack on him reads as bussing.

And how do you come to this conclusion? I saw no post of yours saying you had a scumread on DT, and yet you claimed DT and Arugula are 'likely of the same alignment'. So me, DT and Arugula are all scum? You've got it figured out already? And yet 'likely of the same alignment' reads to me as 'could both be town, could both be scum'.

So I am bussing a potential townie, from your reads?

Also, how the hell do you determine that DT and Arugula are 'likely of the same alignment?' How could two people be linked and town, unless you are asserting they share a pre-game QT?

Your logic and reads are all over the place.

[TeChNoWC]

IceGuy's actions are incredibly scummy regardless of alignment. He has strongly challenged SensFan being scum without providing any credible reasons. He fabricated the ones he gave and hasn't provided decent cases on his alleged alternatives.

And that doesn't even begin to explain his complete avoidance of my posts.

He seems to only be looking to destabilize the game.

I agree, though I don't know what you mean by 'regardless of alignment'. If he isn't scum, his actions just appear scummy but are not.

What did you mean by this?

@UberNinja: yes, I responded. Post 332.

[TeChNoWC]

Ice it is not a copy paste error when you attack people for something not being there when you just haven't quoted it, so right now you calling "OH CP ERROR GUIZ" is bullshit.

Humble was that a hammer? if not i guess i will hammer, as if he is the only accepted lynch today then there is no point continuing the day like seacore stated.

I'd be willing to give Sensfan another chance to claim.

I don't think you should hammer simply because 'well, it's gonna happen anyway'.

ISO Sensfan for yourself and see if you think he is scummy. Give input. I don't see anywhere that you have stated Sensfan as one of your scumreads.

Pretty sure he is now on L-1, Poirot should have claimed this.

[TeChNoWC]

@Ice: You seemed to be the only one thinking Sens was town, so your argument that it was an obvi mislynch just sounds like 'hey im not scum, look I didn't vote for the mislynch!'. It wasn't obvious to everyone else; maybe to someone who is scum and wanted townpoints.

@Seacore: Still no case presented, so what is at risk of forgetting?

I don't find Absta's rolefishing telling. Ice may be right that it's more likely to be a scumslip, but I'm not too sure about that. I think scum would be more careful and town more brash. Why would scum want to draw attention to the NK?

Still, it could be 'fuck what happened to my NK I want answers now!'

It's all speculation though, really.

Alright, that checks out for now, I'm guessing your absta101 case hasn't changed from 273 aside from the roleblocker comment. As far as your "Except for me challenging the leading lynch and identifying a bunch of suspects, generally known as "scumhunting".", I retort by pointing out your five word reads and challenging the leading lynch without real fervor isn't a town tell. If anything it looks like you going "oh.. no.. don't do that....(fade)".

I must say I lost fervor when I noticed the lynch was inevitable. I tried challenging people, but when everybody is dead-set about lynching somebody the only thing you can do is watch and use the information you're gathering for next day's scumhunting.

How certain were you that it was a mislynch? Did you suspect Sens as scum at all? You seemed to defend him SOMEWHAT but it seems rather lacking from a town-perspective if you really thought it was going to end in mislynch.

Scum thought however, it makes perfect sense. 'Hell yeah I can get townpoints and NOT jump on this wagon, because this townie is certain dead anyway' without any strong desire to stop it.

Tossing up between rofl and ice at this stage. Will hopefully ISO both tonight or tommorrow morning when I get some free time.

[TeChNoWC]

absta is town. seacore is still obvtown. this little absta wagon has got at least one scum on it.

vote: iceguy

he's "rather confident" that techno is scum, but there he is on the absta wagon anyway, probably because he thinks it should be an easy mislynch.

How is seacore obvtown? I don't see it. I have a nulltell on him, the same as absta.

I agree with your reasoning on iceguy. Eager to lynch anyone even if its not your top scumread, Ice?

absolutely not scum

unvote, vote: uberninja

This is stupid.

[TeChNoWC]

Uber, I don't care if absta is useless, he's town and we're not killing town deliberately in a mini.

More people for the techno wagon please.

His play day one was scummy. He tried to lump a whole bunch of players together as an 'alliance' just because we all found Sens and him scummy. He did this without calling any of us scummy very often, but instead using muddying words like "misrepresent" and "discredit". He's done zero scum hunting.

I've done more scumhunting than you, and now you're pulling a case out of your arse when you never had one.

I called you an alliance because you basically admitted to it, so you are in effect making fraudulent claims to make me look scummy?

Nothing you said there is factual. Have you even ISOd me???

[TeChNoWC]

Ok, you personally did say there was no alliance. But there was still allusions to the fact.

The wording doesn't matter. You had established each other as towntells based on each other's scumreads, and that is silly. Not scummy, SILLY, and dangerous to town. Why should I have to call you scum over bad logic? Bad logic doesn't necessarily make scum, it makes poor town 9/10.

How is my 'alliance' claim scummy anyway? How is trying to stop people uniting when the enemy could be amongst them scummy? How is discouraging buddying detrimental to town? How is it not an adequate complaint when I suspected ONE of you was scum? Isn't that enough to shoot the whole plan down?

Analysing my wagon IS scumhunting, because I know I am town, so either those attacking me are scum pushing for a quicklynch or town misdirecting town without knowing it. So tell me, how is that not scumhunting?

[TeChNoWC]

@Iceguy: What is your read on me? Why are you voting absta over me? Are you confident in your reads that he is scum?

[TeChNoWC]

Techno, I just gave you a quick ISO,

I have no idea who you find scummy.

You've avoided taking stances like it was a plague. Everything you say is "I disagree with this idea but I don't find the person scummy for it"

This is why I'm accusing you of a lack of scum hunting

Because you haven't scum hunted.

Bullshit. Give me the benefit of a proper ISO, you really don't want to be lynching town and then having it bite you in the butt when you showed you didn't put effort in but just pushed it without second thought. Just a tip.

My scumreads are Ice and rofl, still considering DT. If you'd read my posts that would have been obvious to you. You on the other hand, haven't provided necessary reads on one of the top suspects.

What is your read on iceguy?

[TeChNoWC]

Still nothing to say about your quickhammer?

Ice has a point. There was still more of the day to go and discussion hadn't ended.

Still, Sens was suspected as scum by nearly everyone.

Ice, what is your read on rofl?

[TeChNoWC]

Uber, surely we should be looking for people who are scum, not people who will "screw us over in mylo"
VOTE: rofl
why the quickhammer?

Thomith what are your reads on Ice and absta?

[TeChNoWC]

I must be crazy for thinking Ice is town.
VOTE: Uberninja
Yeah I like this vote

Why do you think UN is scum?

[TeChNoWC]

@Humble
VOTE: Iceguy

Ditto.

After Humble's post I am pretty convinced Humble is town, and I would say he is my strongest townread at the moment after myself.

IceGuy however, is likely scum. He just screams mildly opposing the Sens wagon for towny points, and taking jabs at the other suspects (such as me and absta) in hopes to quell his wagon.

I'm not sure what it will take to get Ice to reply to Humble's posts, but hopefully this might do the trick.

Vote: IceGuy

IceGuy is now at L-1

Claimtime.

[TeChNoWC]

Not interested in lynching IceGuy in the least.

Much more interested in absta101 dying. Let's do this.

@Humble
VOTE: Iceguy

what the fuck is wrong with this game

it is NOT 1337

UN, if you think for some reason Ice is town then now is definitely the time to say it, not hound people that disagree.

Absta's lack of input and lurkerism bothers me, and he MIGHT be scum, but I find it far more likely that Ice is. Either way, absta's 'slip', whether a town error or really a scumslip, tells me that if he is truly scum he won't last much longer and will likely slip again. That and no town will be wanting to take him to lylo.

Either way, I'm not comfortable with lynching absta over lurkerism + a nulltell slip.

@Thomith: he didn't. Just lauded it in everyone's faces how Sens was so 'obvitown' the next day, when clearly this wasn't the case.

[TeChNoWC]

Unvote

[TeChNoWC]

@TechnoWC: I'm your strongest townread after yourself? Is there any possibility of me being more of a townread than you when you've supposedly seen your town PM?

Obviously not.

I'm not sure whether to believe Ice or not. What bothers me also is when scum claim PR and are kept alive, they become strong tools for misleading town before their eventual deaths. However, I'm not keen to lynch a potential PR.

Humble, not sure what to make of you asking Ice how many shots he has. I don't see how that would help town.

[TeChNoWC]

@Humble: Because little scummy dickheads have jumped on me as town before when I have said 'such and such is my strongest townread' or 'such and such is the most obvitown' with the retort 'Oh, so you don't think YOU are town? Obviscum slip vote vote vote'.

@Iceguy: How was Humble trying to get people modkilled?

[TeChNoWC]

Humble is reading as more and more of a newbie or a thick-headed person who hasn't played nearly as much as his join date suggests.

UN, you are one of the few people on this site who attacks people personally, and yet I still respect you.

I wish you wouldn't. It tests my opinion of you.

Same as Humble, need sleep now. Post again tommorrow hopefully.

Wagon on Ice needs to come down to at least L-3 for now. Someone else unvote.

[TeChNoWC]

Iceguy is a better lynch than me, even if I am scum. Which i'm not.

I think I caught the sensfan curse...

...And what did I say earlier? If he is scum, he will slip again? And there we have it.

Absta dies tommorrow.

Iceguy and absta are scum.

But Iceguy is scum.

Watchers are expendable, easy to fake roles. Lets finish off this lynch.

I was fine with absta until he tried to pull off his "I meant Jailkeeper" thing after Uberninja said that he could only believe a town JK familiarity, not a town RB. Uberninja's logic was poor (I haven't seen a town RB therefore none of you have; I have seen a town RB several times), but Absta101's response was still poor.

Sounds good to me.

Time for dying.

Vote: IceGuy

[TeChNoWC]

Whatever. I wash my hands of this.

When IceGuy flips town, lynch absta101.

Considering how lynches have been going so far, lynch the cop tomorrow, followed by a few people there isn't actually a case on, and at the end go, "wait, absta101, Techno and roflcopter were scum? WHO COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT?"

I'm kinda liking Techno as scum too

this post feels town btw, to all who are on the IceGuy wagon

Please recalibrate your scum sensors

Remember what I told you; remember what happened before.

And remember what will happen if I am lying.

[TeChNoWC]

If I am scum in this game and lied to you, you get free PL votes on me in every game we ever play and I won't jump on you for it. I'll even cite this game so everyone understands why. That was the agreement.

I trust that you trust my word. Plus this is a one time offer, so no playing that strategy in any more games, or I won't be able to play with you as scum and you town (obviously).

[TeChNoWC]

Iceguy is a better lynch than me,

even if I am scum.

Which i'm not.

why say the bolded? did you just claim scum?

oh my god did you guys seriously hammer ice?
absta uses the JK thing right after i bring it up, he made that scummy o' scumville post above, and goes "OMG GUYS IM NOT SCUM WTH YOU TALKIN BOUT??????"
and you hammered ice.
...
...
...
wow.

My vote will be on absta tommorrow.

Ice's flip will reveal more about his scumreads, and whether he was bussing absta or not. Ice seemed to be lying, and I don't want scum around that claimed PR who can then lead town astray with false claims.

Absta was less of a threat, plain and simple. He can have his treasured NK tonight and then he goes.

[TeChNoWC]

Well done Arugula.

Why did you not just hammer UN though?

[TeChNoWC]

Good game, I guess?

I'm keen to see Humble's rant, because there were a lot of people that could have done better this game, myself included.

However, I certainly wasn't the worst and at least I can say I tried and gave it my best shot. Not so sure about some of the other guys.

Arugula played a pretty mean scumgame.

[TeChNoWC]

Personally I love being conftown. Nothing gives me greater satisfaction than being able to scumhunt while all the little cronies trying to get me lynched have to shut the fuck up. Plus you are free to say whatever you want, all feelings and thoughts laid bare.

[TeChNoWC]

The 'be the hero' comment was classic. Plus the whole eagle picture thing. And while some people are a bit annoyed at UN, I really liked the whole UN/rofl exchange, simply from a humour POV. This was great:

i will be taking my sweet time deciding for myself so shaddup

And the whole 'I hate you all for being so scummy' comment, lol. Watching rofl's frustration was funny as. Must have been even funnier from Arugula's POV. Though despite being wrong in the end and having to 'be that guy; be the hero', I still think rofl played well in the finish. Arugula was simply running rings around everyone and the last few moments of this game were funny as fuck.