Mini 1420: The Beginning Of The End (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

Ah ha ha what is this Elleran thing?
Why is Dann so on?
What is q21 talking about?

Question: How serious do you believe people's opinions during RVS can be?

Seriously, what?
What is joels talking about?

Yeah...I'm thinking Elleran is town - flipping votes is actually more of a town quality, usually. Although it's really too early to tell.
I don't do RVS. I policy vote lurkers, always. Anyone that isn't "in on the action" immediately draws my attention.
So I'll sit and observe from my tower of evil.
Bwahahahahah.

Seriously, what?
People I've played/am playing against: HEYYYYYYYY, WHAT'S UP?????

How am I so far behind already?
Why are there a zillion people on Trollie right now?
Why am I asking so many questions?

WHO WAS PHONE?????

Vote: joels

I want a better explanation on the second line of 30.

P-Edit: Yeahhhhh, that is a weird line. I'll consider it.

[goodmorning]

Why am I so "on"? What do you mean by that? (Yeah I realize I just set myself up for a joke but whatev)

Not going to make the joke, too obvious.
I meant that 41 seemed really in the game.

[goodmorning]

GoodMorning; Do you like playing town? Do you like playing scum? which is your favourite? why?

I like playing, full-stop.
I most prefer plain VT, it's the mystery factor I think. All the figuring out who to trust and the politics of the lynches. Better to have logic than strategy. And not to have a PR to ruin.

@Rondar: Eh, setting up multiple candidates? I got nothing.

[goodmorning]

Wait, what? I totally missed post 59 and none of this makes sense.

Would someone care to enlighten a humble peon as to

what the hell is going on, exactly?

[goodmorning]

This game. Just... this game.

Om, Why voting Slandaar? Rondar has posted little as well, as have I and joels and Trollie.

Man, I have some questions I'll try to get to this evening.

[goodmorning]

So I forgot all the questions I had.

Oh well

.
Surely I can think of more.

Looks like you haven't played with GM yet.

I have no idea if this is supposed to be a compliment or an insult.

What if it's both??? Ughh nooooo

I just want you to know that you seem like a very reasonable person with very reasonable things to say and I very much look forward to hearing what you have to say. Can we be townbuddies?

Yessssssssss

Wait wait wait. OH GOD, I FORGOT TO ASK.

Are you Town???

_{oh no i've just become buddies with the godfather help me}

Yeah, I can be a very reasonable person when I think of very reasonable things to say.
Sometimes it's more fun to introduce massive levity.

My basis was that I've already done meta check on her due to our other game we are sharing, and her overall play is like that. Joking or semi-nervous-retarded at best short replies to avoid WIFOM regardless of her alignment. Meaning; those questions wont help much even if they were genuine attempt to scum-hunt/reaction-fishing from your POV.

Oh
Oh no
Oh my god
Om.
Om, you didn't.

Om, you meta checked

that game

?

No wonder you think I'm an idiot. I mean, really.
Really.

I can't even blame you for anything, I was giggling the whole time I was writing all that shit like you wouldn't believe.


Well this post is a giant waste of space. (But a fun one, at least.)
Small reads thing:
I was liking Dan, but 139 is not as cool and froody.
Not the biggest fan of Jen's 140 either.
Slandaar and Om I'm leaning Town on, vague Town on Elleran. q21 kinda gives me a weird vibe but vibes don't really mean anything. joels is a decent place for a vote, he didn't really explain himself ever and that's not OK. DRK is like what? And Rondar is null.

[goodmorning]

What do you find odd about Dan's 139 and Jens 140?

139 isn't a bad post necessarily, it's just that back off was really... I don't want to say contrived, but something like that.
I do agree that continuing to tunnel would have been anti-Town.

140... Is that

really

the scummiest thing that's happened in this game so far? (This question is rhetorical.)

Yes, I dislike them for opposite reasons. The cognitive dissonance,

it burns

.

[goodmorning]

Hi again, guys.

@GM; Correct me if I'm wrong; but you're calling out Jen for thinking my exchange with Slandaar was town/town and didn't unvote Elleran to vote one of use when you think it was Town/town too?

I didn't say that, I said the excuse vs reason debate doesn't strike me as the scummiest thing that's happened in this game so far.
I didn't even mention you in regards to that post, why would you think I did?


Sorry I haven't posted in a while, some things I'm looking at in earnest right now:
-Slandaar - newest vote
-kthx - what?
-Ztife - extra what?
-Elleran - some vague stuff in more recent posting

[goodmorning]

I want everyone's explicit reads on Jen & elleran in their next posts pls

Leaning Town on both, Elleran a little more than Jenn.

[goodmorning]

Trollie... you are reeking of opportunism today.

DRK, you are pretty great for saying most all of the stuff in your last post. BUT the one thing that really didn't make sense was your thought on joels. You think he's trying to look like he's active lurking but not trying? Do you think he actually looks like he's active lurking? Because I'm not seeing anything active about it.

Slandaar. What are you doing.

[goodmorning]

I feel really lurkerish, but my opinions on this game...
They've not really changed.

I still want content from joels and am still looking at kthx, Trollie, and Ztife.
I think I'm leaning stronger Town on DRK, that's about the only change.

[goodmorning]

Also, to everyone saying I'm scum...why are there zero votes on me? Seriously, I'll personally guarantee that at least one person saying I'm scum is scum. Just don't know which....

Spoiler:

[goodmorning]

...willingness to jump on any big wagon for a lynch is scummy...

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Trollie's case on you is stupid but your case on yourself is valid.
(To be fair, I wouldn't call it a big wagon but I'd call it well-supported.)

Vote: Elleran

Still think joels is Scum but that's one useless fucking vote right there.
Kthx is also Scum but that can probably wait.

Dann is pretty Town
So is DRK

Trollie... I dunno

[goodmorning]

Vote: Ztife

What the hell is this q21 thing?

[goodmorning]

q21 is probTown to me, am I understanding correctly that the wagon-ish thing on him right now is VCA-only?

That's pretty stupid.

Jenn is probTown too, don't understand what anyone thought was scummy there.

[goodmorning]

I've got nothing new, except for two things. These are quick things. They are opinions. Very valid opinions.
Two quick and very valid opinions:
D2 massclaim with no PR flips is bullshit
cases based solely on VCA are bullshit


This has been a message from your friendly neighborhood facepalmcat.

[goodmorning]

Seconding Psyche's last question. I definitely don't think I get it either.

[goodmorning]

DRK is probably one of my better Townreads ATM and Slandaar's argument on the massclaim is indeed bullshit (as I mentioned before).

What shall I do now? What shall I do?
I shall jump all over this wagon.

Vote: Slandaar

[goodmorning]

Anybody can hint at having a PR.
Anybody can say they have one.
Still, it's probably not the greatest idea to lynch a claimed Doc, at least not right away.

My vote therefore goes back where it came from.

Vote: Ztife

[goodmorning]

@q21
I will reiterate what I said before:
Cases based solely on VCA are bullshit.

So, explain why Slandaar's claiming Doc makes his massclaim stance make sense to you.
Explain why you think kthx is Town.
Explain why Nacho is Town without using his purely theory points.

[goodmorning]

Explain why Nacho is Town without using his purely theory points.

and not drk?

I already have a Townread on DRK. I don't on you.

[goodmorning]

WHOA didn't see any of the other stuff.

@Slandaar: My vote is on Ztife because he's my top scumread. He's my top scumread because he has not contributed anything.
He's been active lurking, voting for no reason, and has only recently begun posting what could pass for substance.

Shitty substance.

In 502 he asks people why they vote him, then fails to pursue those answers.
In 646 he accuses me of sheeping, avoids Slandaar's question, and accuses everyone else of sheeping and bussing.
In 649 he attempts to discount Jenn's case by calling it outdated while failing to realize he'd posted only three times since it was made (and that the case itself was not particularly affected by flips).

If you want to count 431 as well, he asserts that Kthx's hammer was scummy but fails to pursue that too.

NONE OF THIS MAKES ME FEEL CONFIDENT IN HIS SLOT.

[goodmorning]

ALSO @ Slandaar:
I voted you for proposing and pushing a massclaim. I did not vote you because of or for your theory arguments, I voted you because of your proposal and push.

Nacho, on the other hand, was solely theory there.

[goodmorning]

@Psyche - I find the proposal itself to be a scummy one. There is no need to look at a justification for a behavior to know that said behavior sets off alarm bells.
Also, that's not how I'd define lurking. I'd call not saying things/saying things that are irrelevant lurking. Ztife's behaviour is neither.

@Ztife - I think the hammer is Null. I could easily see it coming from either alignment.
And no, I think the reason/s for voting you is/are because you've "been active lurking, voting for no reason, and... only recently begun posting what could pass for substance." And because your "substance" is weak.

[goodmorning]

kthx's play has been completely shit, but not necessarily scummy. The hammer was shit, but not necessarily scummy.
I find him Null, but I could be convinced to vote him on policy as he's not a Townread.

VCA is kind of annoying. If I thought one person on the wagon was Scum, it'd be Nacho. I don't necessarily have a case on him, he just doesn't strike me as playing very Town so far.
Next choice would possibly be q21, but I keep going back and forth on him so eh.
Kthx is sort of an outside chance. I'd bet more on the others though.
VCA is really annoying.

[goodmorning]

Proposing massclaim is not null at this time because there is a clear deficit to Town in it.

I had no real scumreads D1, Elleran looked inconsistent, so hey, sheep the wagon.
The vote on you was hardly opportune, unless you define opportune as "someone does something you find scummy, so you vote them".
I've had suspicions of Ztife, I've made my case. I don't know why you assume he is Town, but assumptions shouldn't factor into it.

@q21 - Wow, good job. You answered one of my questions. Could you actually answer the other two, or are they a bit too difficult to justify?

[goodmorning]

Proposing massclaim is not null at this time because there is a clear deficit to Town in it.

There is a clear deficit to town in quickhammering.

What differentiates the two?

If kthx found Elleran sufficiently scummy, there isn't necessarily any deficit to Town.

Also
@Psyche - I think there is a fundamental difference between what I am saying and what I am trying to say. I think there is a fundamental difference between what you call theory and what I call theory.
I also don't usually go back and check up on my opinions of people or my reasons for voting them.

[goodmorning]

I have no idea what you mean.

[goodmorning]

UGH NACHO
I'm just tired
I keep losing by being stupidlynched, it's a bit silly.
I think I see another stupidlynch coming on, and there's not really much of a case for me to argue against. Not much I can do about it.

Let me pretty much summarize the basics of this case:
"Well VCA and plus your vote on Slandaar/subsequent attempt at justification was stupid."
Maybe it was stupid and maybe it wasn't stupid, but I think I've said all I can really say about it. I believed in that vote at the time. I could and would still vote him now, but it would be a complete waste even if he did get lynched, which he wouldn't. Also it's pretty stupid to same-day lynch a Doc claim, so if my unvote of him was part of your case (and you know who you are) BACK THE FUCK UP.

At any rate I'm just babbling and it's pretty much useless but whatever. It's a really insta-frustrating thing for stupid shit like this to happen.

So yeah, passion here is pretty low.

_{And I have the flu. That could be part of it, but probably not.}

DRK, why do you think Nacho is Town?

[goodmorning]

Before I get to Psyche:

I don't think I explained that very well
GM thinks I am scum
GM thinks if I am lynched she wasted her vote

How does it make sense? (it doesn't)

By saying her vote would be wasted she isn't accounting for the fact I could be scum (which she should be assuming I am considering her read) which proves her read is fake and she is scum.

No, sorry, didn't explain this very well:
If you aren't Scum, you will probably be NKd within the next night or two.
If you are Scum, you could be NK'd but more likely you survive longer than a night or two and then get lynched.
If you were lynched, therefore, it would be a waste, there are other candidates we can look at for today who haven't claimed a PR as yet.
But you wouldn't be lynched, which is still a waste of a vote.

[goodmorning]

Psyche: If you want to call 303 "passionless" that's fine. When the game is at a point where your scumreads aren't posting and the others aren't changing your mind on any of their slors and you've said everything you want to say, sometimes you just have to dodge a prod and wait it out until your scumreads return/get replaced.

Silly me, I thought all the people who had stupid cases on me had the same one.
So, to sum up

your

case on me, you don't like my Slandaar vote because it's opportunistic.
"You jumped onto the Slandaar wagon for dubious reasons. It was a huge jump; you'd defended him just a couple posts beforehand." Two part response:
HE PUSHED THE HELL OUT OF A MASSCLAIM DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT WAS STUPID, THAT IS WHY I VOTED HIM
also
WHERE THE HELL DID I DEFEND HIM?????

SERIOUSLY

THIS CASE IS WORSE THAN Q21'S CASE
AND THAT CASE IS A PILE OF SHIT

AND IT'S AS UN-ATE AS I COULD MAKE IT, SORRY
I REALLY HATE THAT SHIT BECAUSE IT'S DISTRACTING
BUT SOMETIMES YOU JUST ARE SADFACE
BUT IT'S NOT A LIE, REGARDLESS OF HOW ATE IT IS
303 IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS, AS I'VE MENTIONED

SORRY FOR THE CAPSLOCK
ACTUALLY NOT REALLY SORRY FOR THE CAPSLOCK
SORRY FOR THE WALL THOUGH

If there's something you feel I've not responded to, please reiterate it.

[goodmorning]

Not claiming just because some idiots have put me at L-1.
Nobody has intent so far.

[goodmorning]

Psyche, do you wonder why this is going in circles? I don't wonder why it's going in circles.

@Ztife - DRK looks pretty Town, Nacho I have no idea and that makes me a bit suspicious.

[goodmorning]

brb, crying

[goodmorning]

That was maybe one of the nicest things anyone's said in my defense.

SILLY IS THE BEST WORDING AND YOU ARE THE BEST EVER

[goodmorning]

I JUST RESCUED A FROG IN MY HOUSE


KARMA

[goodmorning]

@Slandaar: Already addressed, 706.

[goodmorning]

I did see that post

What could possibly be using your vote well if not to vote for scum?

There is not only one Scum.

[goodmorning]

Because I've explained myself. You keep asking the questions that I've answered already. I'm not planning to repeat myself.

4 does look a bit different from things that have been said, though.
Why aren't you asking the other folks who saw fit to hop on that train?
OK, so you'd probably not get an answer from kthx or kwll. Why aren't you questioning DRK or Nacho on this? Slandaar accused DRK of opportunism and AtE, and Nacho gave less reason than I did. If my vote on Slandaar was really so opportunistic,

what about theirs?

[goodmorning]

@Psyche: The word "convincingly" is a problem here. I don't think anything I could say at this point would be convincing to you.

[goodmorning]

@Psyche:
I have quit trying to explain to you why your case is wrong for the same reasons I have quit trying to explain to my little cousin that unicorns don't exist.

[goodmorning]

Slandaar, that is probably the worst argument I've ever seen.

I don't really know how I feel about this q21 thing, he does give off a weird sort of feeling to me and he is in the small group of people I'm not calling Town, but I just don't know if he's the best lynch right this second. Gut's not that great to base a case on.
I am willing to deadline hammer him though, and intend to do so barring some claim of importance sometime Sunday morning EST.

[goodmorning]

HEY WHOA

GUESS WHAT KTHX

i actually didn't have a strong read on q21 _{(and still don't really)}, sorry i didn't realize you're not allowed to have null reads with vague weird gut stuff day 2, my bad

OR SOMETHING

Hi malakittens, happy reading.

[goodmorning]

I second the wall motion, those things are CRAZY

[goodmorning]

@ GM's last post. Feels like he's just trying to post something without really trying. It feels forced.

Not sure which last post you are referring to.

@GM:Nice. Let's sheep a really bad vote by Kwll that's strictly doing nothing to help us out. Also sheeping DKR who is being sketchy as hell.

I don't find DKR that sketchy. Also would never sheep kwll in a trillion years. AND we've been through the stupid Slandaar thing, as I'm sure you noticed in your reading.

Why let Nacho rush you into popcorning to Ztife?

I've seen kwll replace in as Scum. This is pretty dissimilar. Also the joels stuff was really Town for him.

PEDIT:
@Nacho: she picked Ztife already

Weird how none of that wall was that useful, it was all just recent nonsense and personal experience and ewwwwww
Also it's really weird how similar these reads are to the ones Psyche seems to have had.
And when I say weird...
Well...
I don't mean interesting.


PPEDIT:
Are you sure we're thinking of the same kwll here?

Post thinking edit:
I hate everything.

[goodmorning]

THE NUMBER OF CLAIMS IN THIS GAME IS TOO DAMN HIGH

@Nacho: I really really considered sheeping your Mala read, but I don't trust you not to be Scum right now.

That said, I'll trust Ztife's claim over q21's, what with the weirdness at daybreak.

PEDIT
@Mala: You read kwll as Town there and Scum here?
I cannot even begin to describe how ... UGH

I'll give you the link later, super duper lazy right now

Vote: q21

Think that's L-2.

PEDIT AGAIN
NACHO
CHILL
MALA
NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU
(ALTHOUGH ON THAT ONE I DO)

PEDIT REALLY AGAIN
SHUSH
MALA STOP WIFOMING

[goodmorning]

GUYS

GUYS I TYPE SLOW, MMK

WTF ARE YOU GETTING ALL OFFENDED FOR, MALA

He meant it like your reads have nothing to do with anyone else's PR decisions, which he said in 888

AND JUST NOW BECAUSE I TYPE SLOW

[goodmorning]

Well, maybe after a flip or two I can trust you back. I'm just not that confident in a lot of my reads this game.

[goodmorning]

@Mala: yeah, I may have met that Nacho once before
it may have resulted in my lynch

@kthx: I don't like that post

and that's stupid, I don't think there's any normal situation that would have both a cop and tracker outside of a large setup.

[goodmorning]

A few things:
D2 massclaiming is still bullshit
setup speculation is stupid and also bullshit
hate slandaar right now
vig is me

You want me to explain trollie? I know you do. here: in light of the flip and my reads on people, trollie was the scummiest looking person on the list. certainly wasn't vigging jenn.

And now when we go to night I get to die

gsyhiapadiaf, slandaar

[goodmorning]

I was thinking I'd vig kthx regardless of q's flip.

[goodmorning]

Wait, what?
Sorry, forgot q claimed cop w/ inno on kthx. If he flips cop I'm vigging mala.

[goodmorning]

If he flips anything that isn't cop I'm vigging kthx.

[goodmorning]

Vote: Mala

I don't feel that confident on my kwll read but I think he's Town.

[goodmorning]

I haven't the foggiest.
Mala seems likely, and then maybe jenn? The revelation of our neighborhood was a bit strange timing, to be honest. Or Nacho as an outside bet?

P-Edit: Ninja'd.

[goodmorning]

Not a whole lot.

[goodmorning]

@Mala: She presented her case, which boils down to 2 points:
1. why would scum-fakeclaiming-cop claim a town result on another scum?
2. kwll is scummy in her opinion
I responded that I didn't think kwll was scummy and didn't want to fuck with anyone else's results besides finding kthx's D2 opening vote on q21 incredibly scummy.
She responded a bit too late point one again.

And where in the hell is kwll anyway?

[goodmorning]

UGH WHAT AM I DOING?
NOTHING AT ALL?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME

I still think we should do Mala today, maybe Jenn tomorrow?
Also I have one Vig shot left, who do we think I should go for? YOLO? Nacho?

[goodmorning]

I have bronchitis, otherwise it is quite pleasant.

Fair enough point, but I'm likely the NK tonight and if there's someone we can feel fairly sure is Scum it might be better if I got that last shot off.

[goodmorning]

That would make me think that kwll should have submitted a night action but didn't.

[goodmorning]

Mmm, that would be siteflaking, I suppose, but I don't see how it makes him Town if Mala is Scum. I would assume Scum can submit night actions for each other.

Why do you ask?

[goodmorning]

@Ztife: I don't know, I've had her as a Townread for a while, but I'm beginning to question why exactly that is.

[goodmorning]

Wait, was that a hammer?

[goodmorning]

Well shit.

I'm inclined to vote for DRK here.

[goodmorning]

V/LA for the next 48 hours.

Honestly, have you been scumhunting or was it just a very good illusion?
And I recall some D1 buddying that hit me right the wrong way round.

Vote: DRK

I'd rather not be wrong.

[goodmorning]

Actually

Unvote

I'll wait for your argument first.

[goodmorning]

But, uh, I think even Nacho wouldn't bus as hard as he would have to have been bussing.
And YOLO just doesn't seem scummy to me.
So yeah.

P-Edit: WOO MORE REPLACEMENTS /sarcasm

[goodmorning]

Illusion of scumhunting, D1 buddying, plus Nacho and your slot both look Town.

[goodmorning]

Falling for...?

But I'm all for seeing what happens.

[goodmorning]

Right, well. I don't find any of that very convincing.

Anyone have any last words?

[goodmorning]

What in the actual fuck?

[goodmorning]

Whatever, let's make this shit unanimous:

Vote: DRK

[goodmorning]

I see that.

[goodmorning]

Actually, with a no-lynch or a lynch on Town we probably would have cross-killed and Town could have won.

[goodmorning]

Also


OH MY GOD
OH MY GOD YOU GUYS

[goodmorning]

And I feel a little bad for winning because it was like 90% luck.

BUT AGH THIS IS SO EXCITING I FEEL ALL FLUFFY

[goodmorning]

BRB GOING TO WATCH MUSICALS

[goodmorning]

Yeah, the flavour was quite alright, the modding was too.

And Nacho :[
I want to play a game where we share alignments eventually, playing against you is hard.
Actually, when it came down to the part where I had to claim there were just three thoughts in my head:
1. If I claim VT, how likely am I to be lynched as Mafia somewhere down the line? (somewhat probable)
2. If I claim VT it will be obvious that there is an SK; how likely am I to be lynched as SK somewhere down the line? (possible)
3. 921 "then if he actually claims vig, then he's a fucking idiot and i'm going to laugh my ass off" (ohoho)
It was the third point that really decided it (sorry Nacho) (you scare me)

When I was deciding who to kill I realized I couldn't kill Scum or Town would figure out that something fishy was going on and lynch me. BUT I also couldn't kill someone who was thought of as ConfTown or Town would realize something fishy was going on and lynch me. So I killed Jenn, I was pretty convinced she was Town and enough people suspected her that it was OK.

I was honestly only 51% convinced that Nacho was Town but I decided to go all in on that chance anyway, if DRK had been Town I would have shot YOLO/KBW.

[goodmorning]

Elleran gets stupidlynched too? NOT ALONE

[goodmorning]

Laughed so hard at "I didn't have a town read on you at all AND I AM THE MOD ".

Also DRK
NO HARD FEELINGS RIGHT

AND YOU LIED IN THE MAF QT, YOU CLEARLY ARE VERY GOOD
(i hated Trollie's posts toooo)
YOU CALLED ME (potentially) DANGEROUS AND SCARY ;-; <3
(BUT NACHO CAN LEAD ME ANY DAY)
"there's nothing I can realistically say about Nacho that would make him seem anything but blindingly town" YOU'D BE SURPRISED WHAT PARANOIA CAN DO

Uh...
MALA
10/10 would play again

Oh, and I don't mind the neighbor thread going up, I didn't post in it N3 because I felt bad for killing Jenn :[
Actually my behaviour in there should have made her sure I was Scum. BUT WHATEVER
She can post it if she comes back for postgame because I'm too lazy.

This game was fun, like a lot, except for the part where Psyche was yelling at me :[
Too often people see that and get sucked into acting on it. But not Nacho. THANKS FOR LETTING ME WIN, NACHO

(can you tell i love postgames)

[goodmorning]

It is so heartbreaking being Scum when Nacho is Town, because if you don't manage to kill him early he just does that thing and then you lose.

Pretty sure I'd play most of you guys again.

[goodmorning]

I'd have to say third party wins always look like nonsense because there's very little reason to them usually.

[goodmorning]

I figured you'd not-suspect me more if I claimed Vig than VT.