Mini 1414: Mafia and Werewolves - Game Over

[Viomi]

Oh.

Hai.

Reading the thread now~

[Viomi]

Holy fuck.

Thanks, Xegarus.

Hiraki, it's a bit early in his game to say "Navarre dies next" don't you think?

Yes
YES IT IS.

Hiraki, it's a bit early in his game to say "Navarre dies next" don't you think?

It is never too early for me to line up lynches.

YES
YES IT IS.

I understand the whole theory that "oh well this flip might effect this read"

but the two reads have absolutely nothing to do with each other

and i like to see dead people

It had nothing to do with affecting eachother's reads or flips or whatthefuck
It's just too early to go around saying people should die with half the players not having even responded.
Like seriously setting up future lynches in advance much? One lynch at a time, please!

if being an asshole is only going to get me lynched, that's bad play.

I'm fine with this play, actually.

God I hate this play.

But of course keep convincing yourself that this is the reason you're being lynched.

I like you. You're a really good player.
You're scum.
But still a really good player

Because at least Jacob has given out some reads and is honest.

Please tell me you are drunk. Because that would explain why you are defending a player who has literally posted nothing of substance. In fact there is literally nothing he has posted that can be manipulated into a potential read.

Thank you, director, you have taken the words directly out of my soul.

morons

.....who?

yes

Wait what just happened O.o

On a "serious" note, Xergus why the sheeping Jason, I agree he's town (his play here matches how I've seen him play in other games as town, See Mini 1397 (he replaced out Day 1/2 but anyway) and Micro 104 to give you some idea of what I mean.)

Did you also find games where he was mafia and played noticeably different? Because otherwise 'Jason plays like Jason' tells us absolutely nothing about his alignment.

I swear i (and a few others) just finished saying this about Revenus, are you actually reading the game?

UNVOTE: Hiraki
VOTE: YOLO

Jason no! You were headed in the right direction and everything ;~;

UNVOTE: Revenus
VOTE: Hiraki

What are you doing

He's dancing, what the fuck does it look like he's doing?

Jason don't be such a prostitute with your vote, it's annoying.

WHAT. NO. FUCK YOU EPM.
I like vote prostitutes.

I'm saying it's more effective to scumhunt without throwing your vote around every time you have the slightest suspicion. Voting so often is antitown.

Voting so often is antitown.

Voting so often is antitown.

Voting so often is antitown.

No.
Just.
NO.
Where the fuck did you come up with this? Oh my god the facepalms here they come...

Spoiler: Facepalm

I didn't confuse him with you.

Can't remember who I did though. Oh well.

I do not like this at all.

Not at all.

unvote

Vote: Hiraki

Me neither.

I do not like this at all.

Not at all.

Navarre still needs to die nowish.

I still haven't heard any sort of case on him, just lots of question dodging.

Oh, so you're using an ongoing game that I can't discuss that I'm still alive in to condemn me as scum.

Ok then.

Okay, something I have to say about Revenus:
He is a TERRIBLE player. Very young and/or new to the game and/or just terrible at it.
But that doesn't make him scum. Everything he says is noobish and stupid, yes, but I yet to see it as scum motivated.

Its ongoing, I can't and won't. You should know if you have or not, and you have.

Jacob, just stop. Just, STOP. Don't even mention ongoing games, it's bullshit. It's against the rules, and it's BULLSHIT. Please just no. stop.

Isn't that a modkill-able offense?

Yes. Yes it is. A very severe one at that.

Also, Josh, I am super duper paranoid of that vote thing going on so could pretty please with sugar on top take that vote and move it to someone else so I'm able to sleep at night? Thanks in advance!

P.S. Please do it within the next hour.

What the- oh wait hang on josh finishes this for me.

What the hell, Hiraki.

What. The. Hell.

People, continue to read my mind. I enjoy it.

I want to see how you actually play and get over this reactionary stuff you keep pulling.

If you don't mind, of course.

What. How is that not the way he plays?

If it is

i'm disappointed

PFFTBAHAHAHA okay then. Enjoy yourself over there, numbnuts.
Listen up: Reaction testing to get reactions which can lead to people being scummy and then voting if those reactions are scummy... THAT'S A GOOD GAMEPLAN. It's smart. It WORKS. I've seen it many times. What the fuck. You know what I'm dissapointed in?

Your attempt to make somebody scummy based on how they play, especially since the way they play is very normal.

I'm not about to be lectured to by scum. I have my reasons.

Nice dodge there. Nobody saw that. Not even me. ._.

Navarre, who completely ignores all of this for a random vote. Kind of late, a little bit of derailment. Really, though, it only works to be suspicious IFF revenus is scum. So, to that point, it's still not helping Revenus's case (Or lack thereof?).

Good, somebody saw it too. Good job, here's a cookie.

Spoiler: Cookie

Josh Lynman's fake day vig was VERY transparent. Maybe I've just seen it too much recently. In my eyes, it was SO transparent that I'm wondering if it wasn't put together to give revenus a way out. Right now, I'm looking at him as more a chance of a buddy to Revenus than Navarre and almost just as scummy. It just came off as very set up and Revenus made almost no positive reaction to it whatsoever. Someone else should've done it, Josh had really posted nothing and had no reason to vig. I feel that this was strongly set up by Josh/Revenus (at least Josh) to gain town points. I still see him as probscum.

Started out on the right path: realized it was obviously fake.
Ended up with that it was buddying.

Spoiler: WTF

Who had yet to make one post. Why this? We'd seen quite a bit of discussion on Revenus, nothing on Golden, and you're still all holding RVS votes?

It was still really early in the game, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Director made perhaps the best post of the game (post 61). He's made fairly solid posts this whole game and I really enjoy his view on Revenus.

Disagree, but that's a point of perspective.

I don't like WT Snacks. With that sentence, I've added as much substance as her.

Thanks for all the reasons, that was

really

helpful.
[/sarcasm]

Hiraki is probably scum. Again, I see him switching a lot of opinions, but not votes. He constantly wants someone to die, missed completely who he had as his number one read, and all in all has been taking advantage of whatever looks like it will tie someone up the fastest. If nothing changes from where I am, he'll be my vote, followed by Revenus.

At least you're aiming in the right direction.

VOTE: Hiraki

Spoiler: Good Job

Other than that Hiraki looks town. Xegarus on the other hand, WTF is this shit?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hiraki

No explanation at all, just immediately sheeping the previous vote which also had no explanation.

I'm not complaining.

Because he's not?

Seriously you just avoided the question completely.

UNVOTE: YOLO
VOTE: Hiraki

Spoiler: Good Job

By the way, please don't put Hiraki at L-1 yet, we have like 5-6 players who have a bare minimum of content, so even if we lynch scum today, we're going to be lacking in the information department tomorrow.

Okay I think this is-

I think this is the scummiest thing I've read this game.

Thank you director.

@Hiraki. Little to no content helps me stay alive at night and people are harder to read day 1 because of the many arguments that people may have. This seriously effects my reads and day 2 will help me provide clearer reads which i will out tomorrow. Get me? or is this really confusing? because it seems to be really confusing when i type it.

Oh
So you're a lurker then?
LYNCH ALL LURKERS PL0X
I seriously suggest you stop lurking unless you want my vote.

But, wait, now I'm suddenly feeling conflicted on my vote because two of the scummier people in the game (Hiraki/WTSnacks) are both endorsing this lynch.


Mmmmm.

More than one scum team

Hiraki's probably not scum, he's just stubborn. Anyway busy weekend. Catching up.

Reasons? No? Alright, have fun defending your scumbuddy over there, if Hiraki flips scum I'm definitely going after you.

Vote: Navarre

for addressing nothing

Add in 3 Votes for 4 Posts, a nice OMGUS in the last post with some nonsensical logic gets you to a nice newbie scum status.

But really--that should've been obvious. Did you read his ISO?

Alright, finally some sort of... explanation?

He hasn't been all that scummy imo (that "reaction test" is scummy as hell but whatevs)

Reaction tests scummy?
Tell me, have you even played mafia before?

Hiraki's probably not scum, he's just stubborn. Anyway busy weekend. Catching up.

Why stubborn =/= Scum, i think he has been pretty scummy so far.

This I can agree with.

Anyway why is Hiraki still living?

That's a really stupid question, so I'll give you the really stupid answer.
You guys haven't lynched him yet.

Also everyone on the Hiraki wagon. What makes you think that he is scum.

Read above.

Well this game has stalled...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hiraki

Stalled? This game is moving rather fast, actually.
It's a good vote with a bad reason

I understand Jacob's wagon.

But I think he's town, sorry.

He didn't seem to mind my vote, i didn't see the need to take it off.

Please just shit on the thread some more, if you don't mind.

You've been prodded and the best answer for your vote is "well he doesn't care, so I don't"

Well of fucking course I don't care about a vote that has no reason.

However, it's pretty obvious you give absolutely no fucks about this game or are lurking scum. Considering that you've posted considerably within the last few days, you're lurking scum.

Nice realization, where's the vote?

I've also noticed that there is always dual wagons going side-by-side, first it was Revenus/Hiraki, now its EPM/Jacob. With two scum teams, this makes sense.

Oh my god. Have any of-

Have any of you people actually played mafia before?

Thank you Jason.

Also, to a note, I would wonder if werewolves is not only the name of the second alignment, but also the role. Which would make me very weary about role claiming. I'm not sure if they're a certain sort of bastard role for the site, but they basically fuck over all intent claims, role claims, follow the cop... You claim, you die, there is no protection.

Well, there's your wall for you. I really don't like this game so far

Here's my vote, if you didn't see this coming you should see the eye doctor.
VOTE: Hikari

[Viomi]

Oh forgot to add my scum reads:
Hikari - Good player, Scum as fuck
EPC - Medium player, Constant defense of hikari = scumbuddy?
Navarre - Lurker, probably scum, besides nobody likes lurkers
Xegarus - Same as above, lurker.

[Viomi]

vote Xegarus

Clearly trying to derail the wagon on his scumbuddy gg

By your logic:

Clearly trying to defend his scumbuddy (director) gg

No this isn't how the game works.

[Viomi]

People still taking my first 2 posts seriously

newsflash

take the stick out of your ass please

What if I like sticks in my ass.

Do you have a problem with that?

[Viomi]

People still taking my first 2 posts seriously

newsflash

take the stick out of your ass please

Also I like how this is all you have to say to my whole wall.

[Viomi]

take the stick out of your ass please

And no, this is america, you can enjoy as many sticks up ur butthole as you want

I smell a contradiction.

As far as your wall goes; I had a very solid town read on Hume, and although I don't like you very much so far as your play style seems to be "I'm the fucking greatest mafia player ever", a poor attitude doesn't really change the town read. Your logic flows, although I disagree with some of it, so for now my read on Hume's slot/you doesn't change.

Oh? Did I say anything that put me above anybody? I do not remember this, but okay.

[Viomi]

And that's still all you have to say. Really. No defense for yourself? At all?

[Viomi]

I have but sometimes "reaction test's" (note the quotes this time) look like something forced from a bad move that could easily get the person lynched ("nah it's cool guys that was totally a reaction test")

Now THAT I like. Actually giving me an answer that follows a logical train I can easily follow. Mostly because I've played a shitty move off as a reaction test once as scum xD

[Viomi]

Wait you think that there is 2 teams of 2, one with Hiraki/EPM the other with 2 lurkers, sorry but i slightly doubt the chances of that, and noticing the deadline i think i will put my vote back on JS (i thought we were down to like 2-3 days damn 10 day deadlines screwing with my system >.>)

No? I never said that. Those are just my most likely scum players.

[Viomi]

Exactly what was I supposed to defend myself against? You don't address me as scum that entire time; just stupid. Obviously I don't feel I'm stupid, but I'm not gonna change your mind on that by going 'no i'm not'.

Good.

[Viomi]

It had nothing to do with affecting eachother's reads or flips or whatthefuck
It's just too early to go around saying people should die with half the players not having even responded.
Like seriously setting up future lynches in advance much? One lynch at a time, please!

You even quoted it. I told two players that they need to die. That's me making

two

scum reads. But thanks for the strawman considering that my reads are effected by the rate at which everyone responds at? I mean what the fuck is that? I can't say "you need to die" (which holy shit is my effective way of saying you're scum but I guess that's a bit mind numbing for you folks) two times because not everyone has posted enough in the game? Why does everyone else matter for one player? This is horrible logic. Are you an AJ Alt?

You got a scumread off of him for not posting when half the players hadn't even posted yet. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Thank you, director, you have taken the words directly out of my soul.

Oy vey. I hope you realize that the director is still sitting on his RVS vote and is pumping out the same amount of content without context as AJ.

Has nothing to do with him saying exactly what I was thinking.

Where the fuck did you come up with this? Oh my god the facepalms here they come...

Did you really read what EPM said?

Here's fucking context.

Jason don't be such a prostitute with your vote, it's annoying.

You saying i shouldn't scumhunt?

In 112 and 129 (both Jason posts), Jason switches votes from Revenus to me and then, thinking that he's still voting me, from me (technically Revenus) to YOLO.

The problem that EPM brings up is that switching a vote so often (as in very often [as in forgetting where your vote is because you change it so frequently]) is bad.

He's not saying voting so often is bad for a random reason.

Yes I read it, yes I knew it was in context. But his vote hopping wasn't bad at all, and never is in my opinion. My facepalm stays in place.

I still haven't heard any sort of case on him, just lots of question dodging.

QUESTION DODGING?

WHERE THE FUCK HAVE I DODGED HIS QUESTIONS?

Not just him specifically, but everywhere I look you seem to give questions answers that are just dodges and blank answers. I'll pull up a few if you really want me to.

People, continue to read my mind. I enjoy it.

I don't understand on how people don't understand that sole purpose of that phrasing was so that I drew Josh out.

Please don't give me that, I'm not stupid. If you make a bad choice, at least own up to it.

I'm not complaining.

Your ignorance is actually ignorant. That's expected.

I just didn't have a comment on it.

Spoiler: Good Job

And then I later realize my mistake and answer his question because I misread it.

But I bet we'll get to that...(oh

he

never addresses it. what a coincidence)

She

And my goodjob was towards somebody voting for you ;P

Nice realization, where's the vote?

Yes let me start a new wagon on a player that will probably flake out.

You had no problem doing it before.

Here's my vote, if you didn't see this coming you should see the eye doctor.

OK. But I've read your entire post and really the only grievance you've noted about me is that I don't like Josh's play (which isn't a scumtell that's a disagreement), question dodging from Navarre (which is an outstanding accusation and you're going to have to detail that more), and a disagreement about having more than one scumread.

This whole post you've just posted had tons of why I think you're scummy, I don't even know what you're talking about here.

[Viomi]

I have but sometimes "reaction test's" (note the quotes this time) look like something forced from a bad move that could easily get the person lynched ("nah it's cool guys that was totally a reaction test")

Now THAT I like. Actually giving me an answer that follows a logical train I can easily follow. Mostly because I've played a shitty move off as a reaction test once as scum xD

Hang on somebody refresh me what reaction test we're talking about here

If it's the dayvig one, it was obviously a reaction test. There'd be no point in a scum doing it, as it would just draw attention to them. It does make sense for a townie, so they can, obviously, get reactions.

[Viomi]

@Hiraki. Little to no content helps me stay alive at night and people are harder to read day 1 because of the many arguments that people may have. This seriously effects my reads and day 2 will help me provide clearer reads which i will out tomorrow. Get me? or is this really confusing? because it seems to be really confusing when i type it.

ah people voting me. That was a nice reaction. Have yourself give some spiel about not wanting to die at night, a perfectly anti town move. Throwing a massive sign saying "EASY BANDWAGON TARGET" Nice reactions BTW

WT, Revenus and JS all bandwagon-ed me.

Revenus's vote was understandable given he also had a bandwagon on him but for everyone else i ask. Why vote anti-town over people who have done more scummy things in this game? My previous post had me contributing nothing but that was anti-town NOT scummy.

To everyone else. Since Hiraki & Revenus were being bandwagoned, then one of them + either WT or JS are on the scum team.

Oh yes this.

Hmm I really can't tell with this one, I don't know Navarre's experience or how he plays- I'll have to go read up some of their old games. At first glance I'm going to say not a reaction test, the second post looks a LOT like trying to save himself from saying something bad.

[Viomi]

Exactly what was I supposed to defend myself against? You don't address me as scum that entire time; just stupid. Obviously I don't feel I'm stupid, but I'm not gonna change your mind on that by going 'no i'm not'.

Good.

I'm not sure I understand

Just making sure you actually read it, I was mostly expecting you not to.

[Viomi]

Constant defense of Hiraki = I've been playing with him for a long time. Also I'm gonna refer to you with male pronouns until you get the abbreviation of my name correct.

That's harsh, EPM.

[Viomi]

And this might be just me, but that doesn't really justify defending him constantly. I'm not sure though.

[Viomi]

The strenght of the meta depends on how often you've played with him.

Also can we easy up on the walls, I barley read them normally but when theres so many of them.

Don't worry, I only post walls when I have to replace in. Don't expect any more from me

[Viomi]

You were supposed to come the logical conclusion that I also think he's town and based on meta knowledge, I'm more likely to be right.

I don't listen to meta because I know people can construct their town play to look a certain way and make sure to play the same way as scum. Or just play the same way both ways, and so therefore I really don't care about meta. His roles in other games don't affect the role he is now, and he could act a certain way or say certain things just because he knows that you know his meta.

So really, just a bunch of WIFOM. I don't listen to meta reasons, so. I disregard your explanation completely and still think that if he flips scum then you're definitely his buddy

[Viomi]

Then you're either scum trying to make a town buddy to help support your votes, or you're town doing as you said.

Shouldn't you know this?

[Viomi]

At first, I thought it was slimer when I saw the avatar. Luckily, I was able to understand this and get a good understanding of where Viomi stands.

Yes, it may seem obvious, but remember that werewolves are also the Russian name for mafia and just happen to be standard goons. I was trying to distinguish between it.

Well talking about the possibilities doesn't help anybody.

[Viomi]

Yeah walls are annoying, but people still like postin' them. Do what I do, scan for the important information and filter out the blowhard soapbox grandstanding nonsense. Like this is how I read Viomi's wall (which wasn't a bad read to be fair):

>Hikari is scum
>she thinks a few players are dumb
>a few players know somewhat what they are doing

Here is how I read Hikari walls:
>he's angry

See, it isn't that hard.

Okay, I'm seriously putting this in my wiki.

Hi Viomi. You seem to think that Hikari and evilpacman18 are scumbuddies, yet you also admit they are defending each other a lot (and when one is on the verge of being hammered). Tell me how that makes sense.

The fact that they are defending eachother a lot means they're scumbuddies, right?
You don't often see this kind of chainsaw defense, and when you do it's almost always scumbuddies.
How does that not make sense? Yes it's a completely stupid tactic for scum usually, but since most scum bus they might've agreed on defending together since it's not a very common scum tactic.

But anyways that's just a bunch of WIFOM, but answer me this:
Why else would they defend eachother so much?
I get a little bit defense of a friend you've been playing with for a long time, I've sure done it, but this isn't just defense. It's CHAINSAW defense. He's defending everything about hikari he can, and that gives me really bad vibes.

[Viomi]

You were supposed to come the logical conclusion that I also think he's town and based on meta knowledge, I'm more likely to be right.

meta =/= more likely to be right.

That is retarded.

Also can we easy up on the walls, I barley read them normally but when theres so many of them.

Walls are a part of the game, man up and read them (not like they take THAT long anyway)

THIS POST
THANK YOU JASON
<3

[Viomi]

@Hiraki. Little to no content helps me stay alive at night and people are harder to read day 1 because of the many arguments that people may have. This seriously effects my reads and day 2 will help me provide clearer reads which i will out tomorrow. Get me? or is this really confusing? because it seems to be really confusing when i type it.

Oh
So you're a lurker then?
LYNCH ALL LURKERS PL0X
I seriously suggest you stop lurking unless you want my vote.

This goes not only to navarre, but to everyone who is only posting little fluff here and there. Like Navarre's above post.

Yes, I'm talking to you:
Navarre
Xegarus
WTSnacks
YOLO
AJ

Yolo seemed helpful at first and then he just dissappeared. WTF.
And AJ does his best to look like he's doing something but... I mean yeah he's tunneled into Hiraki a bit but that's about it. He's looking like he's doing shit but still floating on the edges- it bugs me.

[Viomi]

Oh and WTSnacks hasn't done jack shit but speculate here and there. What the fuck is this. I don't even know.

Please get in here so we don't have to lynch you, WTSnacks Yolo and Xegarus. At least navarre is HERE, posting every once in a while. Same with AJ.

I can't lynch you unless I can actually question you ._.

[Viomi]

(Sorry for the double and triple posts, it's how I play)
Just finished reading up on some of Revenus's old games and...

Oh lordie. What is this?!

He's a completely different player there. He's intelligent, lays stuff out.... Unlike in this thread he's flailing like a fucking monkey!

Would you like to explain, Revenus? I haven't seen much scumhunting out of you in this game, especially not as much as you do in previous games.

[Viomi]

(Quadruple post yay <3)

Okay what is with this game? I mean seriously, I see most of you posting elsewhere around the site and not in this thread. It's like lurkerville in here. Holy shit this game has got to be the slowest I've played yet.

And Navarre, the same question I asked revenus goes to you to. I read on your "Mafia of '13" game and it looks like you endgamed and hammered scum at LyLo. You seemed very townie and very anti-lurk, and yet that's all you seem to be doing in this game.

[Viomi]

Hiraki, you give off this vibe as if you're angry all the time. If you don't want people thinking you're angry, perhaps you should stop sounding like it...?

[Viomi]

Would you like to explain, Revenus? I haven't seen much scumhunting out of you in this game, especially not as much as you do in previous games.

I don't understand how you on one hand go "meta is worthless" and on the other use it against me but I'll indulge you.

I believe I have been scumhunting, at least for the second half of today. I don't deal with pressure well, and in my completely games I don't really think I had as much pressure right away as I have this game. Look at my iso again; I believe I'm scumhunting more than most people this game.

Alright, I'll accept that.

Meta being used to say someone isn't scum I don't listen to. However, when it looks like you're doing something because you're under more pressure (being scum can be a lot more pressure as well) then I look into it a bit.

[Viomi]

Fail.

I've played ON THIS SITE since about November 2011.

I wouldn't consider myself a noob...?

I needed to create another account for reasons I do not have to specify here.

However if you go to Members and look up Chrimi, you can read up on my old games and see that I also did lots of triple and quad posting there

[Viomi]

@Hikari - You might want to recheck the facts. I mean she has obviously played this game a lot before, judging by the fact you want her alt. Strange she is in the newbie queue, eh?

I'm not in the newbie queue, I almost was but after talking to the runner of that queue I was told I could not because I've played on the site before.

[Viomi]

Oh, almost forgot~

UNVOTE:

[Viomi]

surprising

What is?

[Viomi]

I really got absolutely nothing out of that.

[Viomi]

That Viomi wagon isn't so insane after all.

I really don't know what I'm supposed to be defending against here.

[Viomi]

I was not injecting WIFOM. I looked at it and was speculating, and then abandoned the thought when I realized it was WIFOM. I even pointed it out in my posts.

And 4chan references yay...?

[Viomi]

>Your reasoning behind them being linked is extremely transparent and suspect.

How is my reasoning behind that I think they're linked transparent at all? I've only explained it what, three times now?

>Your town-motivated play is starting to come off as forced, much in the same way Revenus' is.

Okay then, have fun with that because Revenus is playing the same way he has in his previous games in which he flipped town. It doesn't seem forced to me.
Also would you like to explain to me how my play seems forced? I really don't see how you could see it as forced, but w/e.

>I am inches away from starting a wagon on you.

Good job telling everybody your next move, I'll make sure to act surprised when you do that.

If I am really the scummiest player in your eyes and this is ALL you have on me, then you should seriously try reading the thread. Including the walls.

God now I need to rant about this.

DON'T vote a player unless you've read all of their posts,

especially

their walls.

Most interesting information and scumhunting that I ever do

is in my walls.

If you haven't read my walls, you haven't read at least 60% of what I have to say.
You can't just vote a player if you don't even know what they're talking about.

The fact that they are defending eachother a lot means they're scumbuddies, right?
You don't often see this kind of chainsaw defense, and when you do it's almost always scumbuddies.
How does that not make sense? Yes it's a completely stupid tactic for scum usually, but since most scum bus they might've agreed on defending together since it's not a very common scum tactic.

But anyways that's just a bunch of WIFOM, but answer me this:
Why else would they defend eachother so much?
I get a little bit defense of a friend you've been playing with for a long time, I've sure done it, but this isn't just defense. It's CHAINSAW defense. He's defending everything about hikari he can, and that gives me really bad vibes.

Defending =/= scumbuddies, Town defend town reads (i have done this as town).

Mmm, I see. I just dislike when people defend other people AT ALL. I mean, I asked them because I wanted to hear THEIR defense, not somebody else's.
So maybe it's not a scum thing, just something that bugs me a lot.

Also i wouldn't call it chainsaw defense, unless your honestly telling me that EPM has like 7-8 scum reads.

Would you mind clarifying this for me?

THIS POST
THANK YOU JASON
<3

Dunno what bit your refering to but your welcome

I meant the whole post. Where you said something along the lines of-

Meta =/= More likely to be right.

That's retarded.

And then-

Man up and read the walls, it's not even that hard.

So yeah. I <3d it.

Oh and I really think you should have this as your sig.

THIS POST
THANK YOU JASON
<3

Yolo seemed helpful at first and then he just dissappeared. WTF.

You mean the guy with 6 posts? how exactly did he disappear? He was barely here in the first place.

Well, maybe it's because I replaced in and read the whole thread in 10 minutes instead of over time like you guys did. Made it seem like he was active and then suddenly not.
I guess you're right though, he hasn't really been here in the first place.

He's a completely different player there. He's intelligent, lays stuff out.... Unlike in this thread he's flailing like a fucking monkey!

a) what game is this in? I haven't seen him act all that intelligent before (no offense Revneus)
b) How many games are you using as a sample size cause i am pretty sure i have seen this play from him as town

Scratch what I said. He's playing just as intelligently as he did in his town games (which is actually rather intelligent). I just didn't see it because of Hiraki bashing him and him flailing back when he was under pressure at the beginning of the game.
Here, I'll do it for you:

He's a completely different player there.

He's intelligent, lays stuff out.

... Unlike in this thread he's flailing like a fucking monkey!

I think it could be EPM setting to

WK

off the Hiraki... That's the only reason I've been worried about Hiraki so far and not pressuring further (besides arguing with him is basically inciting rage).

What is WK?

I believe AJ already specified WK for me but...
Remember AJ, there's probably more than one scumteam and therefore he could be taking the chances white-knighting someone not even knowing if they're town. Here's the situation:
Hiraki town = EPM must be town for all the defense
Hiraki town = EPM must be town, scum wouldn't be stupid enough to defend his buddy that long

Meta being used to say someone isn't scum I don't listen to. However, when it looks like you're doing something because you're under more pressure (being scum can be a lot more pressure as well) then I look into it a bit.

*smacks Viomi on the nose with a newspaper*

Meta should only ever be used to cancel out tells (meaning it's playstyle over alignment) one way or the other not prove tells.

My bad ;x

[Viomi]

And here I thought I'd be replacing into a scum slot. Oh, well.

Since I'm not scum, I'm willing to go with Revenus not being so either, since the interaction there was downright bizarre. 'coss, he's still been acting terribly, but that's another matter.

So, Jason, eh? Noted two things about you, as I read this here thread. First off, you've been unusually mercenary with your votes. I don't like that. Secondly, and more importantly, you have a way high words to content ratio. So I took a look at your meta.

Well, I look at the very first game I can find with you in it, and lo and behold! Your posting style is exactly the same. Cue my dismay. Until, that is, I ISO the mod, and find out you flipped scum.

Bye-bye, lad: VOTE: JasonWazza

Oh god. Now I have to deal with you here too.

Ok just realized you replaced Xegarus who has fuck all content, so mae, please answer me a few questions

Why did you only meta check using a scum game?
Why did you meta and iso me of all people?
Have you meta and isoed other people in this game?
Why after this game just had a major talk about how meta is fucked did you just decide to use a meta tell?

These are very good questions, and I would love to hear your answers for them, Maenera.

I also don't like your whole "Oh and here I thought I would be replacing scum. Well, since i'm not......"
It bugs me. A lot.

[Viomi]

Especially since the fact that we JUST had a talk about why we aren't going to use meta and now you waltz in here and use it.

There's no way you read ANY of this thread.

[Viomi]

Thanks for the detailed case on why he's scum.

Does anybody else hate this useless player as much as I do?

[Viomi]

Surprised you voted him quicker than I could, Jason.
VOTE: Maenara

[Viomi]

Play Lists:

Would love to play with again:

JasonWazza

Stay the fuck away from me:

Maenara

That is all.

[Viomi]

"Tiny, but fierce".

Now that you're done with the blatant insults, Viomi, one might question your motives for acting like a cheerleader, the way you do at the moment.

How am I acting like a cheerleader exactly?

Some quotes from me and your speculations, please, instead of just the speculation with no base.

[Viomi]

You sure do spend a lot of time pointing out of angry you are with me.

Maybe cause I am...? Maybe you should've thought about that.

P-EDIT: Surely, if I am that scummy, even with provocation, continuing to debate me would be sufficient to gather up momentum for my lynch? Whereas the pressuring does seem to falter when you, you know, aren't actually doing it.

Except the part where he is xD

[Viomi]

Navarre, he came in and voted someone saying he was SURE that they're scum based on absolutely nothing.

And also hasn't made any cases based on what's happened previously in the game, just on what's happened now that he's joined.

And I didn't have my vote on anybody at the moment, thought I might as well put it on the player I think is scummiest.

I hated the Xegarus slot as it was, and this replacement is making it anything but better.

[Viomi]

oh yeah, I was wondering what happened to you and your whole "lets make a baseless wagon on viomi!" went.

[Viomi]

VOTE: director

[Viomi]

marinara can wait.
oh, that was autocorrect but I think it's cool.

yeah that's her new nickname.

ANYWAYS somebody please see the same thing I did?

[Viomi]

I can only hope the other scum team shoots you N1.

If this is what you mean that it's not the slip you think it is, he is refering to you as scum meaning the other scum team would have to kill you.

I think it is.

I did not notice that.

Good work, Jason.

Vote: thedirector

Glad we agree on something, Hiraki.

[Viomi]

uhm it sounds like we both agree it was a slip, unless you're courting him for something else.

but I get it, you can't agree with anyone even when you're agreeing with them.

PEdit: nvm then O.o

how does he know there's more than one scum team though?

[Viomi]

he's implying I'm on "the other scum team", which means not the same scum team as him, as in hes scum.

[Viomi]

does not mean there's more than one.

[Viomi]

flavor wise, the town could be the mafia and the scum could be werewolves. or vice versa.

[Viomi]

no, I'm just telling you that we have no way of knowing if there's more than one scum team.

[Viomi]

But oh well, I guess I must've misread that as a slip. W/E, IGMEOU director.

UNVOTE: thedirector
VOTE: Marinara (Maenara)

[Viomi]

Jumps in game ISOing only one player and voting him for something we just talked about not doing, therefore not having read the thread and then backpedals like fucking crazy when everyone gets on her about it.

And she's town somehow?

Kay director, have fun with yourself over there.

And there was some speculation that it probably was, but I didn't see any 'debate'. Good try though.

[Viomi]

You're just making shit up as you go, aren't you? How in the hell was my EPM/Hikari link 'heavily manipulated'? I saw them defending eachother quite a bit and didn't like it. I don't see how that had anything to do with manipulation.

At least I was quoting and showing where I was coming from, and not just making shit up.

Seriously, where's the town motivation in this? Don't make shit up, seriously. There's no point unless you're scum. I really want to put my vote back on you now.

[Viomi]

Don't even marinara, We all know what you're up to.

[Viomi]

Well, not all of us, half of this game is fucking retards and lurkers. More than half, actually.

The other half consists of somebody logical, two assholes who are pissed off all the time and somebody who i don't even fucking know what they're doing.

PEdit: and if I was pushing it you'd say that I was just trying to get the biggest wagon lynch.

And I don't think Hikari is scum anymore.

[Viomi]

Actually, the logical person is Jason, the assholes are me and Hiraki, and i don't even know what remenus is doing.

Everyone else in this game is just plain retarded. Literally. That hasn't changed since my replace-in-post.

I've stated my case multiple times, you can go read it or manipulate it into something else, I don't care.

[Viomi]

Damn for a second there I thought there'd be a chance of lynching thedirector.

Hey I'm all up for a director wagon. Any day.

[Viomi]

flavor wise, the town could be the mafia and the scum could be werewolves. or vice versa.

This post is bizarre. When I look at my role PM, I get the impression I'm town, not some kind of 'mafiatown' or 'werewolftown'. I don't see how you could think the town are actually the mafia or the town are actually the werewolves. But I could see this from another point if view. If you got a mafia or werewolf PM, you probably didn't receive information about what the 'town' are called and assumed from the title 'Mafia and Werewolves' that your faction is up against a 'mafiatown' or 'werewolftown'.
I'd like to hear what others think about this, since I think we might be dealing with a slip here.[/b]

This is a joke, right?

The example of a townie role pm is on the front page. No matter what my alignment, I can see the VT role PM.

[Viomi]

@Jason and EPM: Yeah, when Jason was talking about the whole what chainsaw defense was I was very confused because that's not what I remember it being.

I thought chainsaw defense was just when somebody was hardcore defending somebody.

[Viomi]

I don't understand the Maenara votes. Superlurker Xegarus received barely any attention at all, and Maenara, who is decently active, receives two votes right off the bat. Now I won't say I like Maenara's first few posts, in fact
I think they're fishy. But not to the point where I want to vote for him 3/4 days away from deadline.
Oh, and more Viomi votes too. People, why are the lurkers receiving zero attention? Deadline is 3/4 days away and prod-dodgers like Josh are just auto-pilotting to night. Wake up, people.
(inb4 Jason comes at me again screaming I shouldn't attack lurkers. Now I will admit my activity is far from perfect and you can hold that against me, but so far I have put content in every post of mine. That is completely different from not participating in this game or even posting frequently while saying nothing.)

You make a good point.
UNVOTE: Whoever the fuck I'm voting IDFK
VOTE: WTSnacks

[Viomi]

Huh?

I'm so confused. No, I didn't conveniently forget about the VT role PM on the front page? I was saying we could all be in a mafia or all be werewolves (as in name, not role) and not even know it.

[Viomi]

Or the name could be the name just to throw us off.

[Viomi]

@Jason and EPM: Yeah, when Jason was talking about the whole what chainsaw defense was I was very confused because that's not what I remember it being.

I thought chainsaw defense was just when somebody was hardcore defending somebody.

Chainsaw defense is attacking someone for attacking your scumbuddy (under the guise of a legitimate attack, of course).

That's what I meant. Thank you.

Also, the case on me is:

Some of you think there is two scum teams.
I don't agree.
So I must be scum?

I don't see how that makes any sense at all. I have a different opinion on how many teams I think there are, and I don't see how that makes me scum.

[Viomi]

we're definitely not lynching WTSnacks. Nobody cares about him enough.

He's lurked through literally the whole game.

I'm not voting based on who we CAN lynch, I'm basing my votes on who I think is scummy.

And yes, I do think director is rather scummy, but cmon, WTSnacks has been gone

the entire game.

[Viomi]

Why would he lurk unless he's scum.

He's a hydra for god's sake, there's no way the lurking isn't on purpose.

[Viomi]

flavor wise, the town could be the mafia and the scum could be werewolves. or vice versa.

Now your stretching to get this to be a viable theory.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Viomi

Has nobody else picked up on this. His theory that Mafia are werewolves and town are Mafia if he had a town role PM. I'm pretty sure mine says town and the one in the OP.

Did you read my response? at all?

I'm pretty sure mine says town and the one in the OP.

There's an actual reason on why I've said little to nothing about this.

can we please keep this under wraps

if you get what i mean

Good to know Hikari isn't a dumbass.

[Viomi]

Why does navarre only have 3 votes?

VOTE: Navarre

Let's get this shit done, please.

@Jason: As I said, I don't think there are two scum teams. However, there is always a possibility of it, and that's what I was hinting to them. That there's a possibility of a scumteam which would explain that.

[Viomi]

Which would explain what Revenus said*

[Viomi]

I accept that there could be two scum teams.

I also accept that there could be one.

[Viomi]

Then how was what Director said a slip when it happened?

If there was a possibility of 2 teams then it wouldn't be a slip.

I misread what he said, I thought he said "The other scumteam NK's you" which made me think he was on a scumteam and, if there were two, he didn't want to waste his team's nk so he was hoping the other team would nk me.

However, looking back on it he probably meant that he thought I was on a scum team and that the other team nk's me.

So pretty much a misunderstanding.

[Viomi]

Hence why I took my vote off, otherwise I'd still be voting him.

[Viomi]

Why would he be a goner if you flip town?

[Viomi]

I didn't ask you.

[Viomi]

Guys, we're running out of time. Kill it plz.

[Viomi]

Jason, you should stop wasting time and hammer.

[Viomi]

22 pages. He's lurking like crazy and just...

He's so very scummy. It wasn't hard or fast, really.

[Viomi]

Navarre is one of my scum reads.

If you didn't notice, scum reads change over time, I believe I did have him in my beginning scum list, i dont remember.

[Viomi]

vote josh lyman

for obvious reasons

by which i mean his only actions today have been to join the most popular wagons with 0 explanation its been nearly a week since his last nonproddodge post

We can worry about this tomorrow.

[Viomi]

I wish I knew what just happened.

I really do.

[Viomi]

Are we seriously voting me over the tunneling flailer that just posted a picture of the winged dragon of ra, as a post?

i claim Vanilla Town and i think that both Hiraki/Josh Lyman are better lynches.

@Viomi you say you lynch me for lurking yet Josh Lyman has posted just as much but tries a lot less as demonstrated by his prod dodge.

Lol there's a lot more than just the lurking thing, I'm pretty much sticking with Hikari's case he's built up over the game that you haven't defended against.

And don't worry, I'll worry about josh tomorrow.

[Viomi]

We know he's anti-town at any rate, if not in role then in play.

Were you talking about me?

I'm sorry but did you notice your extreme lurking?

I know I did.

I love all of these lurkers criticizing us. It's really not effective, coming from you, Marinara.

[Viomi]

Unvote. Vote: Navarre

Good night.

Tomorrow I expect a reason for why you changed your mind

PEdit @Hikari: Uhm.

Kay. Enjoy yourselves.

[Viomi]

You hadn't said ANYTHING on navarre before 545.

When Navarre flips scum, FoS on YOLO.

[Viomi]

He didn't say ANYTHING on thinking navarre is scummy, besides his list where he said he was "slight scum". And then, in one post, that changed to thinking he wants to hammer him because he's so scummy.

Does that not read as scum trying to bus? No? Maybe it's just me.

[Viomi]

What, cause I want to wait till tomorrow?

Lolkay.

JacobSavage has actually been very insightful and I can follow his thoughts easily. And, as I said, I'll be worrying about Josh tomorrow.

[Viomi]

He's a lurker. I don't think he would respond to me until tomorrow anyways.

[Viomi]

Not as much of one.

[Viomi]

She was just talking at the end of the last page so I figured she would actually respond.

[Viomi]

Tomorrow.

Taking this night phase to make quite a few cases which I'll either release one by one or all at the same time.

[Viomi]

Night could start any minute now, there's no point.

Not like you're going to listen to any of them anyways, Hikari.

[Viomi]

We know he's anti-town at any rate, if not in role then in play.

Were you talking about me?

I'm sorry but did you notice your extreme lurking?

I know I did.

I love all of these lurkers criticizing us. It's really not effective, coming from you, Marinara.

Good job being overly defensive, scum.

I was talking about Navarre.

In the sentence just before that you were talking about me, and you didn't specify you were talking about Navarre.

It would be nice if you would be more clear on who you're talking about next time, Marinara.

[Viomi]

In the sentence just before that you were talking about me, and you didn't specify you were talking about Navarre.

It would be nice if you would be more clear on who you're talking about next time, Marinara.

Your user is tagged as female.

I said 'he'.

Your move.



In other news, for those not terribly interested in debating this with Viomi, I too am fairly certain that YOLO wasn't bussing either. It doesn't make sense to have him do that, not at that point.

why doesn't that make sense?

[Viomi]

Oh and btw: Told you hiraki was scum

[Viomi]

see we can be friends maenara

you just can't take out my scumbud day one

then I can't assure victory yknow

Maenara has been in the game for 3 days.

How the fuck is she lurking?

No because you're putting that read in the background while Maenara is in the limelight.

Yet Maenara is a lurker as well, no?

Can you summarize why you might want Maenara dead then?

Every single time he commented on Marinara. I really don't like this...

VOTE: Marinara

[Viomi]

VOTE: Viomi

Thanks for giving me all of these detailed reasons so I can explain to you why they don't make me scum.

Oh wait...

[Viomi]

But I like 617 so I could go for Maenara.

Vote plz <3

[Viomi]

It was also the fact that YOLO is still lurking to fuck.

and I wasn't talking about now. I was asking why it didn't make sense before. I want to hear your reasoning.

[Viomi]

VOTE: Viomi

Thanks for giving me all of these detailed reasons so I can explain to you why they don't make me scum.

Oh wait...

[Viomi]

But I like 617 so I could go for Maenara.

Vote plz <3

Will you help me kill the director afterwards?

Definitely.

[Viomi]

VOTE: Viomi

Thanks for giving me all of these detailed reasons so I can explain to you why they don't make me scum.

Oh wait...

You are scum. Explain that.

it's really hard to take your vote seriously.

[Viomi]

V/LA for about two days.

[Viomi]

the fact that it is bugging you so much is awesome. if you want a reason your twilight play was absolutely horrific, and the fact that you aren't dead yet is mind boggling. but this town is so goddamn stupid they hammered a guy who had 12 freaking posts, so you might have a shot to live viomi.

Lynch all Lurkers.

I better get a marinara scum lynch today...

[Viomi]

Also I helped lynch him because I thought he was scum. I'm not going to backtrack and say I didn't think that. I was simply wrong.

Although he was the most useless townie in the game.

[Viomi]

Are you okay in the head there, epm?

The lurker I was talking about was the guy we lynched yesterday, not Marinara ._.

[Viomi]

Aftern scanning Hiraki's iso, I've determined that his most likely partners are Viomi, the director, or WT Snacks

Maybe some quotes from Hiraki that makes me, director, and WTSnacks likely partners?

[Viomi]

director, I pressured him until he showed me he was town. Which I thought he did.

I was obviously wrong, but w/e.

And I just want to follow other players trains of thoughts. is that so bad? Everybody has different perspectives, and I wanted to know exactly where he was coming from.

[Viomi]

You finally post and hop on the biggest wagon. VOTE: YOLO

Good point on director btw.

[Viomi]

The hell you do. Only when it's convenient to further your cause. Or, hey, where was your trying to know my "perspective" and where I'm "coming from"? No, 'twas all 'Hey, fuck you, I'm a bored teenager, it's mah damn RIGHT to go ahead and be pissy at each and everyone.'

And now you're all polite? Woah, that's some weird stuff right there.

But go ahead, continue with the dissonance. Makes for one hell of a case right there, once we're done pressuring or lynching Josh, whichever turns out to be necessary.

I really don't know what you're talking about here, but I can definitely tell you're a tad angry.

Calm down and think.

There you go.

Yes, I'm a teenager, and actually, I go by thatboredteenager on quite a few other sites, so it's ironic that you say that.

And you can be all angry that my play is rather aggressive, but aggressive play doesn't make me scum. At all.

And I knew where you were coming from, because most of your stuff is obviously bullshit. No need to clarify bullshit, I already know it's bullshit and that's all it's ever going to be.

[Viomi]

So, who wants to lynch Mae?

And I just don't see revenus scum.

[Viomi]

Ebwop: Mae or director, actually.

[Viomi]

WAIT FUCK

SCRATCH EVERYTHING I'VE SAID

First of all: Revenus is scum.

WHY HAS HE NOT BEEN NKD YET

Just think about it. if an extremely townie person has lived this long... why hasn't scum NKD him? this is ridiculous! Why has nobody seen this?
Important rule of mafiascum: if an obvious town survives past night 2 (especially with 2 NKs each night)... scum shouldve tried to kill him by now.

VOTE: Revenus

[Viomi]

Lol, if you say so. But I'm betting you Revenus is scum.

And yes, he is more townie lookin than any of the NKs in my opinion

[Viomi]

*sigh* you just don't get it. I learned this from a well known player with at least one scummie, if there's an extremely obv town player past day 3 then they're most likely scum.

[Viomi]

I doubt there were any tells, I didn't see any, and the prs that were shot seemed pretty townie to me.

Just not as townie as Revenus.

[Viomi]

Posting from phone:
Viomi, what makes you think Revenus is obvtown?

Just iso him.

Also read what I've been saying about him. Ive had a constant town read that only got stronger.

[Viomi]

Wait nobody said you were scum with WT....

And why is it such a bad idea? Sorry I just can't see it

Reading Skills +1

Jason said I was with WT. Claiming is a bad idea for obvious reasons.

Revenus, while we're waiting for Viomi, why don't you go ahead and tell us a bit more. A lot, specifically. As much as you can, related to the game in any way possible.

I really want to vote you but apparently you're this retarded and scummy as town so

[Viomi]

Man, Jason, the more I read from you, the more I think I shouldn't have abandoned you after I replaced in. At least have the common decency to assume I wouldn't be that blatant, were I to be scum with Hiraki.

okay, it was just too much. VOTE: Marinara

[Viomi]

PS still up for killing YOLO who has been lurking since day 1...

PEdit: Rev could easily be partners with wtsnacks or hiraki.

[Viomi]

@Marinara: it's kind of obvious, you can just read my ISP, I've given multiple reasons.

Seriously though, lynch options today: YOLO, Rev, and Marinara. Pick one and vote.

[Viomi]

Ebwop: read my ISO*

[Viomi]

You always have been, there's just been other people trotting along who have been more scummy.

just barely though.

[Viomi]

However that was rather satisfactory.

UNVOTE:

[Viomi]

VOTE: Yolo
Care to explain why you lurked so much?

[Viomi]

Jason and Jacob, could you please lay out your cases in one post each, that I can read easily and respond to accordingly.

[Viomi]

Hiraki was obv. scum, but nobody agreed with me so I had to NK him.

WTSnacks actually wasn't lurking, he was legitimately not there. I only talked to him in the QT a few times. He was gone for most of the game, so.

[Viomi]

Or you guys are stupid.

[Viomi]

Oh yes! Pull the stupid card! You're getting somewhere now, kid!

I was just giving the other option, relax.

Ugh, you annoy me Hiraki. Adding you to a blacklist so I don't have to deal with stupidity masked behind bravado.

[Viomi]

Viomi, you tried way too hard, the hyperposting got kind of obvious in the end.

Uhm. I always hyper post. Especially as town.

[Viomi]

You didn't point anything out towards thinking I was scum the whole game, so :/

Anyways, I would love to hear what slips I made so I can make sure not to make them again.

[Viomi]

Mostly the "there's possibly one scum team" twas a massive slip and really only looked like it came from someone who was informed.

Oh lol I actually did that in a game as town but okay xD

I'll make sure not to do that again.