Mini 1454 - GAME OVER

[AngelInFreezer]

Fuzzy wagon? I approve of this.

VOTE: fuzzybutternut

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Nobody didn't join a wagon, or OMGUS.

So what do you think of this situation?

[AngelInFreezer]

Oh you were talking about NS. I thought you were talking about everyone in general.

[AngelInFreezer]

Vote: AngelinFreezer

Its like two for one!

Is this a hydra?

Scum team is Bubba and Science.

Explain how?

bubbajack

serious question

have you ever played this game before

this game as in? He has played games in MS for sure.

bubbajack

serious question

have you ever played this game before

Yes, he has, I've played with him, he's terribad.


<3

Cmon Fuzzy, are you mad that now you have competition. Bubba is not actually bad, I have played with him before.. He got awesome scum bussing tactics.

[AngelInFreezer]

oh btw, that 's me.

~Angel

[AngelInFreezer]

Well, with logic like that, you must be right.

VOTE: Fuzzybutternut

Is this serious vote?

Regarding

whydoieventry

bubba, having played with him in both EM and here, his play is pretty awkward regardless of his alignment, so I'm not quite feeling bubba wagon right now unless I see something majorly wrong in his play.

But this juan guy needs more love.

VOTE: JuanJuan

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@HP: why would you want to wagon on somebody who hasn't spoken yet?

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@bubba: unsigned post is AA9. I sign my post.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@Juan: what do you think of bubba?

@NS: where did that notscience came from?

-G

Ffffffffffffffffffff

[AngelInFreezer]

So you don't think bubba is scum.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@NS: notscience vote*

[AngelInFreezer]

Ok. So what do you think about the bubba wagon itself?

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

I see.
UNVOTE:

Juan is town.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Fuzzy r u seriously pushing bubba wagon with only reason of your rvs vote mostly landing on scum?

[AngelInFreezer]

Juan's town.
Bubba's town for the effort.
JKM is town.
Fuzzy is *sigh* town.

This game is gonna be easy.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

As effort, I'm talking about the research that he did about fuzzy's RVS.
Personally, I see that kind of stuff town.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@JKM: I did. I recently unvoted though.
I want more content from marc/jon/HP first.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

In normal circumstances it could be debatable but when we have fuzzy-experts who knows how to read fuzzy, I don't see a reason for PL.

This discussion ends here.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Also speaking of reads let's hear your reads, notscience.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

I don't have anyone I want to vote after my unvote tbh.

My vote will probably end up on either HP or notscience, but I would like to hear more from them first.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Angel, what do you think facilititates hearing more from people? Just sitting there wishing and praying, or doing something about it?

What's our most effective tool in doing something about it?

I usually start with questions and vote after unless I see something particularly scummy.

It's just how I play.

That and I want to hear what my hydra partner have to say about this whole matter.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Come back when you have a better reason for me.

VOTE: notscience

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Come back when you have a better reason for me.

Do you know who say these stuff the most?

Scums who got caught for wrong reason.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

bubba
drop your EM logic
it just doesn't work there

@notscience: yes, added with the tone of your post, and no, it depends on the context and tones.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

here*

[AngelInFreezer]

Voting is not scummy. I'm sorry. Trying to rush people to vote, is. I have already said I'm inexperienced on MS but experienced in mafia. I'm not a
Spoiler:
And I refuse to be treated as one. I'll make decisions on my own.

Also this is bubba-town.

@notscience: the only time town say such thing is out of frustration. I don't see frustration in your post. What you're doing basically is "lol he sux lynch him! your attack on me is shit, do better!" and doing nothing remarkable yourself.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

G, are you GIF?

yes.

[AngelInFreezer]

Give me your opinion on bubba.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

K. It seems that you're just doing fine.
Now give me the reads that you promised me yesterday.

P-Edit: to notscience.
-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@bubba: stuff like vote - lynch.

P-Edit: fuzzy, your "serious" reason consisted of "oh my rvs vote is usually on scum"
If that's serious to you, go take a break, and come back with fresh mind.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@bubba: stuff like vote - lynch.

P-Edit: fuzzy, your "serious" reason consisted of "oh my rvs vote is usually on scum"
If that's serious to you, go take a break, and come back with fresh mind.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Mod Announcement:

Maestro is now the back-up moderator for this game. He will cover for me during the V/LA I mentioned a few posts ago. Hopefully, that's the only time you'll see him.

I'm pretty sure he will like this hydra.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@notscience: I see you can scumhunt fairly well even with fuzzy's nonsense.

Now tell me. How is fuzzy distracting you enough for you to push a lynch on him?

Sidenote: my hydra partner where art thou D:

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Sorry Rob. But this time the top of the page is mine!

[AngelInFreezer]

My hydra partner will post...someday...

Anywho


@HP:
Fuzzy - town. But he should be vig'd.
Amrun - my stance on her is basically what JKM thinks about her. Added to that, her "QQing against newbs" looks like a frustration, not scum trying to go for easy target.

@Jon:
-his "fuzzy distracts me let's lynch him" looks like a petty excuse for going for easy lynch
-his reaction against pressure (do better plz)
-his opportunistic jump on Amrun just now.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

Fyi to everyone: noob is not an insult and I never intended it as such. Saying I am more experienced is not having an ego. It is being factual. Anyone with eyes can see it. I am not saying I am some amazingly skilled player, but I have a LOT of games and experience. Somehow saying so and correcting people about serious gaffes in theory is condescending. Sorry if you think so but idc really. Know that I am not trying to insult or imply you're terrible or whatever.

I like playing with more experienced players, and don't mind being called out on bad play. It helps me grow as a player, and I can watch scum hunting techniques I'd not learn otherwise. My experience is all here on mafiascum, and I have a long way to go before I call myself experienced. I'm telling you this so maybe it'll help you get a better read on me if you're Town, which I'm leaning strongly that you are.

The three on Amrun are the three with the lowest amount of mafia knowledge/ms meta by my count. This is probably a frustration wagon and I really don't see much merit to it.

Agree.

@AiF Thanks

I smell buddying in the first half of this post. Anyone else?

Not me.

Hi Hoopla, thanks for joining the game! Happy Birthday!

Another experienced player I can buddy, yea!

Doesn't Hoopla always have the cakes?

hey bubbajack, you don't need to respond to every single thing someone says to you. lets tighten it up. those quote stripes are killing me.

Someone finally said it.

if he is scum, then his buddies haven't been under pressure all day.

Can you clarify this for me Hoopla?

Sorry 'bout my slight absence--the StarCityGames circuit is in town this weekend, so I was out there. Anyways, as for the current wagons, I feel extremely hesitant to jump on the Amrun train, despite being mildly skeptical of her--I don't feel particularly confident on the three people really voting for her.

JKMatthews--Okay, I see both sides of the argument. Bubba did a lot of the legwork in post 258 on the town-argument, but the others have rightfully pointed out an amount of philophosizing and shallowness. In addition, the people I am more likely to trust are against him, so there is that. Being said, I am not ready to commit to a JKM wagon just yet.

Which leads me to notscience. After re-reading notscience's vote history & posts since the point Hoopla pointed out, I am more and more liking this wagon. His three votes--Amrun, fuzzy, and I--have always been after someone else voted on them, but not only that, but someone who got some bad PR directly before his votes. I'm unsure if he's just being reactionary or not(it's possible), but I'm more willing to believe he's trying to push a wagon early in an attempt to get the tempo ball rolling in all cases. Ergo, I am willing to put down the ultimatum of a VOTE: notscience.

Oh, so my votes are always after someone else? Last I checked, you followed me onto pitoli and held onto it for holy hell. Show me where you HAVENT done that. Not to mention, my vote on you had a reason. I shared the reason. What wagon am I currently trying to push, please enlighten me as to that fact? I'm voting those that I find to be scum. Also people are REACTIONARY in mafia? The game where everything is judged by-wait for it- REACTIONS? Say it isn't so. I'd wager the only reason you're liking my wagon is an attempt to save your scumbuddies from a lynch. Namely, JKMatthews, whom you "aren't ready" to pursue a lynch on for someodd reason. Why not? He's done NOTHING to help the town. You're just looking at the wagons and saying "well, this is the biggest so I will jump on and town will like me for it because I follow the majority!" I don't like the vote (for obvious reasons, as well as what I've listed here) and it comes off to me slightly OMGUSy for my calling you out a few pages ago.

Who do you think HP's scumbuddies, then?

So university has gone back for me today, meaning what little free time I had is even smaller.
My 'philosophising' and vagueness are completely fair accusations - I always forget the amount of time that needs to be dedicated to a game increases exponentially with the number of players, and I fear I really can't keep up with this game.

Mod, could I please be replaced?

I hope this doesn't disrupt the game too much. Have fun everyone!

Aw. Sad to see you go (again)

Fuzzy is town.
Bubba is town.
Jon is town.

Not is scum
Hp is scum
Aj is scum

All others are more or less null atm.

Basically, notscience looks like caught d1 scum to me.

Back to L-1.

VOTE: notscience

Exactly what I'm thinking.

I don't know about my hydra partner (who haven't posted here for a WHILE), but I'm gonna be

on V/LA till Tuesday.

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

OPPA BUBBA STYLE

AIF, I am definately feeling that JKM/HP slot alliance going on. I don't like HP's excuse for not joining the wagon, but that will just be discreditted anyways. I truly enjoy becoming the policy lynch, it seems that has become my role on this forum. Lovely. I'll be a good boy and wait for intent before I claim. I still don't like that JKM spot.

Stop being lazy and give me a petty excuse such as "oh I'm gonna be discredited anyway". If you think so, give me a reason.

Looking at the notscience wagon:

-snip-

This is the foundation of the notscience wagon: laziness and apathy. Not one of these voters have displayed any curiosity at all regarding notscience's alignment and have pretty much just nestled in for the ride and done nothing else. I would be gobsmacked if all three of these players are town - if they are, we're fucked, because it means our lynches are being determined almost randomly. None of these voters have any idea why they're voting notscience - all they've done is enabled other people to jump on thinking it's a viable wagon, when in reality, it is based on nothing.

This is highly suspicious, and I expect scum to be in the first three voters, or if not, the ones to come, because why wouldn't scum capitalise on such an easy mislynch?

Okay, looking at the rest of these votes:

-snip-
~~

I definitely have a lot more issues with the base of this wagon than those who joined late. As I said before, the fact that all my town reads are off this wagon, and I see six null-to-scummy voters on it, makes it really obvious to me that this is a mislynch with at least two scum sitting comfortably on votes they haven't been challenged on.

I want to lynch someone on this wagon, and it should be one of the early voters, in my opinion. I am still suspicious of JKMatthews, and I think he needs to be die at some point, but I think I've unearthed higher priorities here.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JuanJuan

I agree with that those 3 players were being pretty apathetic, but I have Juan as one of my strongest townread, so I don't like your vote there.

I resemble that remark!

We can lynch this too, but I still like where my vote is.

Anti-town doesn't always equal scum. For example, some of your antics have been anti-town.

You must reaaaaally think NobodySpecial is scummy then, right?

No,

NS is helping town.

NoS isn't.

How the fuck

Okay, I'm going to go into my own personal philosophy here a bit--bear with me a bit.

I don't like commiting to things. I am fairly easily swayed by people's arguments(a personal failing of mine), so I make it a measure to not try and get attached to one line of thought. Wagons come and go, as they were, and half the time I cannot help but muster a "meh". Day one lynches are important for future days, but the reasons for a day one lynch are fairly nonsensical and have a tendency to be based on weak evidence. There are things to read into the vote, but it becomes more apparent after a nightkill usually--he who dies is vindicated in a sense. I'm actually not sure what i'm typing here, so I guess I should summarize by saying I hate day ones. Literally the worst day of the game.

My L-1 vote on notscience, I immediately regretted, but I couldn't really back down from that course of action, considering it's boldness. I've tried to stay ambivalent to the whole affair, because I do get both scum vibes and town vibes from him, but I kinda got bored for a moment and forgot the bigger picture. His defensiveness to me doesn't paint him favorably in my eyes(not necessarily because he is FoS'ing me, day ones are dumb and people really have no idea), but it did, combined with my immediate regret, give him enough benefit of the doubt to allow me to reprieve him for a while.

I do admit, from JKM's posts, he seems to share similar sentiment as me in regards to day ones, but on reading his posts in isolation, he truly hasn't contributed much, I cannot deny. Much less than notscience at least.

You know who has commit less though? Marcmann, but at least he brought up hypocrisy at one point.

You wanna know who has contributed absolutely nothing? Nobody Special--seriously, go read his posts. Of the six, three don't matter than the other three have very little content.

Tangentially, fuzzy's continued obtuseness bothers me. Like, I actually am coming around to the idea that a policy lynch might not have been the worst idea we could have done today.

Posts like this rarely, if not never, comes from scum. Especially admitting that he made a bad choice and stuff. He can be in my townpile now.

Fuzzy- "I don't like policy lynches D1"

And is on the votelist FOR a policy lynch on D1.

I'm gonna go back to fuzzy post to confirm this. If it's false, I'll take this as a misrep/discredit.

-snip-

Also, Hookerpunch is scum.

My L-1 vote on notscience, I immediately regretted, but I couldn't really back down from that course of action, considering it's boldness

. I've tried to stay ambivalent to the whole affair, because I do get both scum vibes and town vibes from him, but I kinda got bored for a moment and forgot the bigger picture. His defensiveness to me doesn't paint him favorably in my eyes(not necessarily because he is FoS'ing me, day ones are dumb and people really have no idea), but it did, combined with my immediate regret, give him enough benefit of the doubt to allow me to reprieve him for a while.

That is a scumclaim. Scum cares about positioning, town naturally is better and more comfortable with their movements. Defensiveness is a noob tell. Not a scum tell, but we've missed that apparently.

disagree.

Hoopla, you chose the wrong scum. It's Jon, not Juan. A simple misspelling on your part, I'm sure, but you made a much better case against Jon than Juan.

When I was contemplating who to vote from those early voters, a couple of jon's posts struck me as town. Like when he was lucidly talking about buddying and forming a town bloc - just seemed too candid and like he wasn't worrying about what people thought. His vote being static the entire day is suspicious, but reading his iso, a couple of gut things like that stick out as town. I didn't really get as many town pangs when reading Juan's posts.

Apathy isn't hard to fake, and there's no chance of making a scumslip. I'm not sold on jon's alignment either way, but joking and seeming candid doesn't in my eyes stick out as a town indicator.

@jon, seeing as you posted while I was posting: I was posting my reads for everyone, so how that could be an opportunistic attack on you specifically, I don't really know. I was picking up on what I read in your ISO, like I did for AJ. Where did I defend you, by the way?

If anything, what you've just done against me comes off as opportunistic, trying to push peoples interests in a different direction.

I think "opportunistic" is a stretch, so you'll have to elaborate on that a bit more.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Juanjuan

Yep, I like this one.

wat

Place your bets on who jon parks a vote on next guys! Rest assured, he's the best parker in the business. I see Hoopla's points about the wagon, particularly those who started it and JKM (part of what was in JKMs was something I had speculated about myself a few pages back).

I don't like the end to 337. It feels more like someone nervous they trodded on the wrong foot. Not to mention, it's INCREDIBLY fence-sitty. "kinda looked" "somehow missed" all come across poorly IMO.

VOTE: jon

"Hooray I'm saved! Now jump on this next wagon this looks promising!"
Put your vote back on notscience plz.

Kthxbye has done enough to convince me that slot isn't scum.

UNVOTE: Kthxbye

Now how has nobody put pressure on Nobody Special?
-snip case on NS-
TL:DR - NS is a wagon jumper, sheep, and lurker.

VOTE: Nobody Special

First of all, what has kthxbye has done for you to be convinced that he's town?
I agree with your case on NS, but the extreme lurkiness is actually his meta.

notscience: Nobody Special, AngelInFreezer, kthxbye (3) <---the correct wagon

any questions?

Amen.

@Hoopla: Unless I missed this, in case you can quote yourself, what's your opinion on notscience?

I think I'm seeing the similar traits from last game we played together from Jon. His "buddying" approach looks townish, though. so I'm putting him as NLS.

[AngelInFreezer]

^
-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@Jon
Re: Juan - I got a townvibe from him based on the early interaction I and juan had.
Also you're taking my post as if it was directed to you. Why is that?
Re: vote - err did you had scumread on notscience?
Also yes, the A part is ArcAngel9.

@notscience
More like choosing the most logical explanation based on the context.

@393 kthxbye - fucking AMEN.

@394 notscience - links to both your scumgame and towngame plz.

@396 hoopla - wat

@400 amrun - "too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy. But he claimed that he's like this every game he played, so i asked him for a link.
I wholeheartly agree with your Juan read. I would give jon a townread if i wasn't seeing some similar traits i saw in his scumgame, which means i probably would have to read his towngames.

#400 solidify my townread on her.

#423 bad NS. Juan is town.

#428 hello marcmann. You still haven't explained which posts of kthxbye made you townread him.

Fuzzy staph being useless.

ArcAngel9 will post eventually...eventually!

-G

[AngelInFreezer]

@NS

Re: Juan - I got a townvibe from him based on the early interaction I and juan had.

Oops.

[AngelInFreezer]

Bubba wtf

(Btw I'm gonna stop signing my post anymore. Until AA9 posts, you know who I am.)

@NS: I'll elaborate on it when I get desktop access.

[AngelInFreezer]

@435 Amrun: k.
@455 bubba: why do you ask that?
@456 not: nope. It had to do with you using PL as an excuse to push a shit lynch.
@457 bubba: uh what does vote/did not vote has to do with anything?
@459 not: i'm answering this with my comment at your 456.
@464 AJ: agree.
@476 Juan: i'll be waiting.
@485 jon: i agree with kthx and bubba. AJ not as much. I'm probably gonna spend some time looking at his posts later.
@496 not: who r u voting again?
@497 marc: um
@502 : discrediting spotted.
@517 jon: not liking your "im gonna look at isos." Last time when you were scum, you said that A LOT.
@519: that looked LAZY as hell
@521: what was your point of that post?

Fuzzy is being lazy as hell and i'm not liking that.

Also what's a case on HP? 'Cause i have him as town.

Still like where my vote is, though.

[AngelInFreezer]

Oh ok. I must've missed it then.

[AngelInFreezer]

Bubba, you're not pro at mafia. That's arrogant thinking. >.>

That's like saying

I'm

pro at mafia.

Angel, i'm always lazy day 1.

Newb 1339 tells me otherwise.

[AngelInFreezer]

This is GiF.
I came back from my v/la today (supposedly yesterday) and I'm tired so I'll post something tomorrow. Hopefully arc can post soon.

[AngelInFreezer]

Vote Count #2.2:

Nobody Special:

kthxbye, JuanJuan, jon_h61 (3)

Aj The Epic:

Amrun, marcmann2, notscience (3)

Amrun:

Aj The Epic, bubbajack8 (2)

Not Voting:

Nobody Special, AngelInFreezer, fuzzybutternut

With 11 alive, it takes 6 players to reach a lynch.

V/LA:

None

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-06-18 11:00:00)

As per rule #10 in General Rules, an ArcAngel-specific prod has been issued.

♥

HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE LISTENING TO AMRUN? OH MY GOD.

BUT I THINK AMRUN IS TOWN OH MY GOD.

So far my town reads are Amrun, bubba, NS, and kthxbye. Leaning town on notscience and jon. Null on fuzzy and AiF. Scum on AJ and JuanJuan.

I think NS is the wrong lynch.

I think NS is the wrong lynch.

It is, but I don't see why you have a town read on him.

The reason NS is the wrong lynch is as follows: Everyone is willing to lynch him, so we can't get much information on him. Regardless of flip, he gives us nothing if everyone is fine with him dead. He hasn't given us enough content to make assumptions about his alignment. And to be honest, the chances of him flipping scum are probably 3/11. Lynching him is a roulette and it isn't ideal for the town.

That's not why. It's because he rarely post shit.
Also I have never seen NS hammer without claim and that worries me.

How can ANYONE townread Amrun? Out of her 47 posts (i believe) Maybe MAYBE 5 of them are actually useful.

But those 5 posts reeks of town.

Experienced =\= pro. Are you kidding lol.

Also, this.

You're seriously making a case out of nothing.

Am I mistaken or are you just fencesitting all around the place?

Also
VOTE: notscience

I still do not know how ppl townreads him.

[AngelInFreezer]

um
@642 marc
Why do you have notscience as leaning town? Why Juan as scum?