Mini Normal 1460 - Normalville Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Elyse]

Meh. I only know Like Kattaze and that's it.

Like I usually know almost Everyone. Random playerlist.

VOTE: Kattaze

[Elyse]

VOTE: Slandaar

Wagons.

@Future
How was BT's "I don't respond to stupid questions" confrontational? He was saying that Red Dragon responded to the questions despite calling them stupid.

I like playing as scum better. I've only done it once though and I replaced it, but it was extremely fun.

My favorite role would have to be vig. I like being able to kill someone without anyone else weighing in.

[Elyse]

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

This is a weird sentence.

If you believe that D1 lynches are bad and explained why, what's the need of this last statement? It's a little preemptive, like you don't really believe in it yourself and know others will pounce on you for it.

[Elyse]

Reading through I agree with Slandaar about thegooner's explanation for his vote on me. That stood out like a sore thumb.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: thegooner

@Grizzle
Any chance of a tl;dr of your walls?

[Elyse]

Lmao sorry

I'll get around to reading your case eventually but just wanted the gist so I know your thoughts as the game progresses.

[Elyse]

Baezu does seem bloodthirsty.

Being willing to hammer on page 5 does not seem very townie.

[Elyse]

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

It's a bit early to be declaring you are town in caps. You have one vote on you. Why are you acting like you are about to be lynched or NK'd? Do you think you are that much of a priority for scum to kill?

[Elyse]

@Elyse I just feel like scum will want to nk me because I've been causing a lot of ripples in the water and making accusations. Creating controversy is usually something scum wants to quiet. I know it may be early to use caps, but I wanted to emphasize the fact that I am indeed town. I'm not really worried about a lynch but I don't think people have to wait until they're at L-1 to make a case for their alignment. I want it to be clear to everyone that their votes need to be elsewhere. The fact that future's vote is on me is prob indicative that he is indeed scum. I'm not going to apologize for being eager in this game. It's because I know I'm town and I'm doing my best to ensure that votes go where they need to go.

I'm beginning to shift on the whole

Baezu

thing. I am absolutely not sure whether she's town or guilty.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

1. Just like

Elyse

said, caps-claims of innocence don't quite add up to the general play of the game. But they don't ring to me as scum; quite on the contrary, it comes to confirm my theory that Baezu may very well an innocent newbie. Until...
2. She moves her vote to the

future

pro's-driven wagon even tho she just explained why she was reluctant to move her vote. She doesn't appear very convinced that

Future's

scum, but she'll join the town wagon anyways. Scum wagons for no reason other than to follow town.

I was hoping for a post that could clear up her alignment, but she posted this:

@Elyse I just feel like scum will want to nk me because I've been causing a lot of ripples in the water and making accusations. Creating controversy is usually something scum wants to quiet. I know it may be early to use caps, but I wanted to emphasize the fact that I am indeed town. I'm not really worried about a lynch but I don't think people have to wait until they're at L-1 to make a case for their alignment. I want it to be clear to everyone that their votes need to be elsewhere. The fact that future's vote is on me is prob indicative that he is indeed scum. I'm not going to apologize for being eager in this game. It's because I know I'm town and I'm doing my best to ensure that votes go where they need to go.

She clearly doesn't know how mafia operates. Creating controversy is precisely what scum wants, in order to confuse town and get a mislynch. (I think. You guys got me a bit insecure about my mafia theory. x) ) I think

Baezu

is just a newbie. I have no idea about her alignment until we see a lynch and I see who she's been trying to kill oh-so-eagerly.

I was going to respond to Baezu but BP took the words right out of my mouth.

So yeah thegooner and Future are good lynches ATM.

[Elyse]

so. many. walls.

[Elyse]

I've been sick. Will catchup ASAP.

[Elyse]

K I'm just going to make a big catchup post once I start rereading.

[Elyse]

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

Didn't like you until here, but this post is townie as it gets, not because of the defense but because of the tone and concern for life.

I think a "concern for life" would be something scum has more than town.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN. I swear to you. The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

This post has my mafia sensors blaring in my head. It's a combination of all CAPS words, frustration, and also some semi-surrendering ("I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM"). In my experience, bringing up PM info to avoid being lynched is usually scummy. Also, in a 13 man game where the pool is already small, why not just shut up and die? Why fight so hard on Day 1 to not be lynched? Usually if I'm civ and getting FOS'd by people early in games, I put my head down and work twice as hard to find mafia. It does no good to overly defend early in games because that's what mafia wants. The longer a round goes with suspicion and discussions pointed towards a civ, the easier it is for mafia to hide. A civ death can be extremely helpful for civs in the long run.

VOTE: Baezu

I feel like you aren't interacting with anyone in this game. You mention posts that seem off and that's it. You don't defend yourself, ask questions, or reply to people who think you are scummy. You just pop in, comment on something, and leave.

You guys need to listen to Slandaar. I am TOWN.

I swear to you.

The reason that I want to lynch BP is because he just seems to me to REEK of scum so why not continue to try to push for someone that I feel is scum? That is also the reason I was not willing to move my vote. But, since people obviously cannot be convinced by my words I will just have to wait for the mafia to NK me n1 to show you my role PM. Maybe there is a doctor out there who is willing to protect me because as I said before, I am TOWN. Also, when I get killed will you please vote for BP. That is my dying wish. For now, I will vote with those who are more experienced and take their word that future is indeed scum. Hopefully you guys are right.

VOTE: Future

Didn't like you until here, but this post is townie as it gets, not because of the defense but because of the tone and concern for life.

Funny how interpretations of this post are diametrical with for instance thegooner.
I find it townie. I'm not sure in how far swearing is actually allowed, and some people take it more seriously than others, but the thing in bold has got me convinced.

I'm sorry but this is really dumb.

I swear I'm town too.

Am I am townread now?

@BP yes. Currently I feel future us scummier than you. That's why I changed my vote over to him. Why do I feel he's scummier than the gooner? Because of the fact that his only defense is an ongoing game and he has nothing else to say for himself.

I can see this, but the gooner hasn't offered up any defense at all.

@Nacho
To the posts of mine you responded to:
1. Yes I skimmed hard.
2. How is that opportunistic?
3. I'm not going to give out a whole list of reads but Grim is very town to me and thegooner and Future are the two scummiest people.

@PeregrineV's 109
How does BP looks town to you?

Scum doesn't argue for No lynches, because they want to mislynch instead.

Incorrect. No lynch is better than a mis-lynch for scum.

How so?

What is your read on Future, Red Dragon
And what about you Ztife? How do you feel about the wagon behind his name and the people on it?

I mean, he isn't the worst d1 lynch. But I think bp is miles better.

Y U focus on me so much?

Maybe because he thinks you're scum?

\

I'm from Missouri.

That's unfortunate.

Really? Once again nothing.

I get why people have issue with future, but his play doesn't make sense as mafia even in ISO. It would be incredibly poor mafia play.

Future's buddy found.

I can't decide if the push here is to let a townie hammer for info or to stall the hammer from the mafia's perspective. In either case it doesn't look to me like a scum lynch still, but that could just be because of D1's practically infoless nature. BP just had some bad whyme fryme, and I like Ztife's post above as well as the quote from Baezu.

Explain this. I actually don't understand this at all.

Well, in that case...

Unvote

Oooh I was ok with your no-lynch-but-still-vote shenanigans but now this is going back and forth. Now that ONE person who is already voting Future wants a hammer, you're so scared that you jump off? I don't like that one bit. Also, no one will hammer without a claim, and no one off the wagon has shown intent to hammer. It seems like you really don't want to be associated with this wagon.
@RedDragon
What is your read on future? And why?

I still think thegooner is scummier than Future but I 100% support a Future lynch. I still want to give both of them time to actually interact with others.

Future might be a better lynch anyway because Darthe has been tippy-toeing around his lynch and subtly trying to stall it. If Future is scum it would be very telling.

[Elyse]

I want Future and thegooner to post first.

[Elyse]

^Good post.

[Elyse]

Let's just hammer him and see instead of all this WIFOM. And if I survive the nk we can talk about who's actually scummy tomorrow.

Yeah you're going to have to die soon.

And even after others pointed out why you wouldn't be NK'd, you still have that "Oh, I'm going to be NK'd" belief for no reason.

[Elyse]

Your role.

You are one vote away from being lynched.

[Elyse]

My vote's already on thegooner so yeah.

I also think Red Dragon is scum. He was disinterested in the Future lynch the whole time, and now that it's dissipating he wants him dead? Wtf is that?

Don't really understand the scum reads on me. Baezu seems to be sheeping Slandaar's reads.

If it's because I haven't done much, then yeah I agree. I've been sick and when the people were posting walls I had a huge headache and stuff but yeah.

[Elyse]

Looking through his past games, Darthe does bold his votes instead of using the vote tags.

I guess that's a point for him faking it as well as a point in his favor. If he used vote tags it would be evident he faked it, but he should know the coding if he bolds it every time.

Care to explain, Darthe?

[Elyse]

@Nacho
I don't know him, but his point is that as scum, I wouldn't want to piss off town. I don't really follow that logic but his logic does not require me knowing who he is.

Still waiting for that "not pathetic" post of your's.

But yes I do agree with you about RedDragon.

Actually I'd rather lynch him anyway.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RedDragon

[Elyse]

I think RedDragon is bluffing or something.

He says that he's willing to be lynched, but then asks if we want him to claim? What's that about? If you want to be lynched, what's the point of claiming and possibly stalling your lynch?

[Elyse]

Darthe seems town, Nachomamma seems scummy.

[Elyse]

why am I scummy?

Unexplained votes, promise to contribute when you really haven't that much, gut.

[Elyse]

wait unexplained vote(s)?
what's that about?

Uh your vote on me?

and i promised to eventually make a post that didn't suck
eventually isn't necessarily here yet, Elyse.

Well until eventually comes, you're scummy.

[Elyse]

So you are taking a stand and wanting to lynch yourself because you think that SunnyDays (Future) is scum for replacing in and dropping a towntell, even though you didn't want to lynch him when his wagon was actually popular.

Hm. It's not going to work, so either shape up or commit suicide for no reason because no one will listen to you when you're dead either.

[Elyse]

@RedDragon
I'm "attacking" you because you need some tough love and are acting like a whiny baby for no reason. Come on now.

As far as Baezu is concerned, I never thought her "I swear I'm town" bit was very townie and she does want to lynch ASAP for no real reason. A good deadline lynch if necessary.

Still, my top three scumreads are RD/gooner/Nachomamma.

[Elyse]

Wait Nachopappa are you thegooner's replacement

[Elyse]

I think RedDragon is bluffing or something.

He says that he's willing to be lynched, but then asks if we want him to claim? What's that about? If you want to be lynched, what's the point of claiming and possibly stalling your lynch?

I actually think this may be the worst thing I've read since being in this game now! I'm just going to put it in its own little post so that people can let that marinate.

Why is this bad?

What makes sense about RedDragon dying but claiming and possibly stopping his death? Darthe explained it pretty well. His play is contradictory, because he wants to make it like he is fine with dying, but at the same time is hyping up some claim.

Vote: Elyse

Oh cool. Unexplained vote #2.

Yeah Nacho and RD are my top two lynches for today.

[Elyse]

@Nachopappa
Did you make your account because of Nachomamma or something? Do you know him? I'm confused.

[Elyse]

I think RedDragon is bluffing or something.

He says that he's willing to be lynched, but then asks if we want him to claim? What's that about? If you want to be lynched, what's the point of claiming and possibly stalling your lynch?

I actually think this may be the worst thing I've read since being in this game now! I'm just going to put it in its own little post so that people can let that marinate.

I agree with you and know exactly what you mean.

Can you explain it to me then?

@RD
Glad to see you un-self vote but you can't possibly call anyone scum for being on your wagon opportunistically.

[Elyse]

I think RedDragon is bluffing or something.

He says that he's willing to be lynched, but then asks if we want him to claim? What's that about? If you want to be lynched, what's the point of claiming and possibly stalling your lynch?

I actually think this may be the worst thing I've read since being in this game now! I'm just going to put it in its own little post so that people can let that marinate.

I agree with you and know exactly what you mean.

Can you explain it to me then?

@RD
Glad to see you un-self vote but you can't possibly call anyone scum for being on your wagon opportunistically.

[Elyse]

I'll respond to Nacho's "case" after this.

Sounds like a pretty straightforward SK-claim.
Elyse: Imagine some drunk guy standing on a bridge, threatening to jump but not really wanting to. He just wants to prove to the world how much of a victim he is, and show some people a lesson. He's trying to make a point,h e doesn't want to die. Yet you are there, standing behind, shouting "jump! jump! jump!", all the while hoping the crowd that has gathered will push him off to a certain death.

At least that's how I see that post.

I see what you mean, but I think RD is scum, so yes, I want him to jump.

I sound like a terrible person.

[Elyse]

Alright so before I delve into this, I can already tell this is a shit case where you go through all of my posts and nitpick rather than actually find one or two big reasons as to why I'm scum. But I'll humor you anyway.

Just because I voted no lynch doesn't mean that I'm necessarily new to the game, FYI.

This is a weird sentence.

If you believe that D1 lynches are bad and explained why, what's the need of this last statement? It's a little preemptive, like you don't really believe in it yourself and know others will pounce on you for it.

I didn't think that you would posture so hard on things, Elyse. Not to mention that this attack doesn't even come close to making sense; people called him newb a shitton after he suggested no lynch, he was offended, he wanted to get his credibility back. But you somehow warped it into him not believing in his own idea (what) and knew that people would attack him because the idea he didn't believe in was bad (what???).

Really? BP seemed to think what I said was justified:

Fair enough. I just didn't like his assumption that because I voted no lynch I'm new to the game. That's all. x)

Next.

Reading through I agree with Slandaar about thegooner's explanation for his vote on me. That stood out like a sore thumb.

Of course you would jump all over a badly explained vote for you.

This is a prime example of you sifting through my posts and bullshitting stuff. Thegooner's vote for me was RVS, but it was after RVS had ended and he felt the need to explain it was RVS when no one even questioned it. It was just really weird and cautionary. I didn't "jump all over an unexplained vote on me", as you misrepped.

Baezu does seem bloodthirsty.

Being willing to hammer on page 5 does not seem very townie.

This is what we call a potshot back in my hometown. For the rest of you, opportunistic posturing might get your goat a little more.

Where are you going with this exactly? Am I supposed to ignore someone wanting to lynch on Page 5 or just let it go? I'm not voting him or saying "OMG YOU'RE SCUMZ" so I don't see how it's opportunistic.

It's a bit early to be declaring you are town in caps. You have one vote on you. Why are you acting like you are about to be lynched or NK'd? Do you think you are that much of a priority for scum to kill?

There's so much wrong with the post Elyse quoted and "declaring you are town in all caps" is not even close to cutting it.

So are you saying that I didn't explain well enough why the post I quoted was bad? Once again, this is terrible. It is not scummy in any way for me to do that. And as a matter of fact, why don't

you

explain it so well?

I was going to respond to Baezu but BP took the words right out of my mouth.

So yeah thegooner and Future are good lynches ATM.

Future? Where did the want for a Future lynch come from because you sure as hell didn't hint to that in your posts...?
Oh, right. He had a sizeable wagon on him by this point.

There's a first time to mention a scumread. That was it. Again, where are you going with this? If I mentioned it twenty posts before, you would just say the same thing.

I feel like you aren't interacting with anyone in this game. You mention posts that seem off and that's it.

Elyse, this is your play to a T.

No, it's not. I was sick for the beginning of the game and now I'm contributing and interacting. This post was literally your first non-shit post (actually it still is shit but at least you tried?), so you can't say a damn thing.

3. I'm not going to give out a whole list of reads but Grim is very town to me and thegooner and Future are the two scummiest people.

These reads are the farthest thing from special, unique, real. She just took three common reads and repeated them.

Am I supposed to have unique reads or something? Am I not allowed to agree with the general consensus? Your logic is terribly flawed.

I still think thegooner is scummier than Future but I 100% support a Future lynch. I still want to give both of them time to actually interact with others.
Future might be a better lynch anyway because Darthe has been tippy-toeing around his lynch and subtly trying to stall it. If Future is scum it would be very telling.

Future lynch is better because a player she doesn't suspect has acted weird around it? That doesn't come close to making any sort of sense.

Darthe was trying to subtly stall his lynch. What don't you get about that?

@Nacho
I don't know him, but his point is that as scum, I wouldn't want to piss off town. I don't really follow that logic but his logic does not require me knowing who he is.

I'm prodding Grimm's townread of Elyse, and Elyse is quick to explain the point to me.
That doesn't sit right with me at all.

It concerns me, I knew what he meant, and I explained it. I'll repeat myself again, where are you going with this?

I think RedDragon is bluffing or something.

He says that he's willing to be lynched, but then asks if we want him to claim? What's that about? If you want to be lynched, what's the point of claiming and possibly stalling your lynch?

Elyse actually believing that RedDragon WANTED to be lynched regardless of alignment is scummy as all fuck. Essentially, her problem with RD is that he's stalling his own lynch and that's a BIG problem.

I THINK HE'S SCUM. AND HE SAID HE WANTED TO BE LYNCHED. I'M CALLING HIS BLUFF.

Uh your vote on me?

Elyse noticed my vote on her, thought it was scummy because it didn't have an explanation.
Didn't mention that or try to get me to explain my vote until I asked her why I was scummy.
Doesn't mesh well at all.

Oh sorry I forgot it was my job to pull reasons for your votes out of you.

Wait Nachopappa are you thegooner's replacement

Missed her strongest scumread getting replaced? Really...?

Yeah, and? Am I scum for missing that?

Oh cool. Unexplained vote #2.

Yeah Nacho and RD are my top two lynches for today.

I'm scum for another unexplained vote on her, but she still doesn't ask my reasoning.

I was waiting for "eventually" and you kept brushing me off. The fact that you are trying to make ME look scummy for YOU not providing reasons is laughable.

And why did gooner leave the suspect list?

Nachopoppa has seemed town to me.

[Elyse]

I see what you mean, but I think RD is scum, so yes, I want him to jump.

but you don't want him to self-vote.

Well I would rather him attempt to redeem himself and be helpful, but if he refused then yes, I would want him to self-vote.

Alright so before I delve into this, I can already tell this is a shit case where you go through all of my posts and nitpick rather than actually find one or two big reasons as to why I'm scum. But I'll humor you anyway.

BIG REASONS:
1) Bullshit reasoning
2) Opportunistic timing
3) Bad trajectory that doesn't make any sort of sense whatsoever

I negated all three in my response.

[Elyse]

Really? BP seemed to think what I said was justified:

I didn't and just because BP didn't pick up on it didn't mean that I'm going to let it slide for no reason.

It was directed at BP and BP knew what I meant. I don't care about what you think of it.

Where are you going with this exactly? Am I supposed to ignore someone wanting to lynch on Page 5 or just let it go? I'm not voting him or saying "OMG YOU'RE SCUMZ" so I don't see how it's opportunistic.

You're testing the waters for a lynch: if you really thought he was pushing for a lynch on Page 5, then you would be a hell of a lot more suspicious of him than just tossing out a throwaway comment on him.

I don't go directly and try to lynch someone for everything they do.

So are you saying that I didn't explain well enough why the post I quoted was bad? Once again, this is terrible. It is not scummy in any way for me to do that. And as a matter of fact, why don't you explain it so well?

You picked up on things that weren't really alignment indicative at all. It's not that you didn't "explain it well enough"; it's that you were explaining things that didn't matter. And yes, it just so happens that it IS alignment indicative since it's scum's job to pick up on shit that doesn't matter and convince town that it does.

Again, why don't YOU explain it? And what I explained DID matter.

No, it's not. I was sick for the beginning of the game and now I'm contributing and interacting. This post was literally your first non-shit post (actually it still is shit but at least you tried?), so you can't say a damn thing.

NOW you are contributing and interacting. You weren't then.
But still you criticized people for doing things that you were doing, and that's scummy as fuck.

YOU ARE DOING THE SAME DAMN THING. And I had an excuse. I was sick. Do you want a doctor's note? I'm not going to not point out something I see as scummy just because other people think I'm doing it.

Darthe was trying to subtly stall his lynch. What don't you get about that?

But you didn't suspect Darthe.
Meaning that you were using Darthe's behavior to push a lynch on Future.
But you didn't suspect Darthe.

But Future's lynch would have helped me determine Darthe's alignment.

I THINK HE'S SCUM. AND HE SAID HE WANTED TO BE LYNCHED. I'M CALLING HIS BLUFF.

he said to lynch him so scum could be caught off his wagon tomorrow
then he asked if he wanted to claim
you accused him of stalling his own lynch
and that is horrible

No, he said to lynch him to make sure that we don't let SunnyDays off the hook for his entrance into the game. He said that we shouldn't have abandoned an L-1 wagon like that.

Oh sorry I forgot it was my job to pull reasons for your votes out of you.

That's not your job. Your job is to question things you find scummy, bring them up when you see them. You didn't.

Yes I did. You kept saying you would get to it eventually.

Yeah, and? Am I scum for missing that?

Yes. It's hard for me to believe that town misses their top scumread getting replaced since townies usually care about their top scumread at least a little bit, and you missing that completely shows that you didn't really care that much at all.

I didn't see the mod's post. People miss posts all the time. It's not alignment indicative.

Nachopoppa has seemed town to me.

You didn't mention that before. Why not?

Same as before with why I didn't say Future was scummy. There's always a first time for me mentioning a read.

[Elyse]

So when you ask to be lynched and people vote for you, that's opportunistic?

I'm sorry but I'm failing to grasp that concept.

[Elyse]

Ya, I'm REALLY feeling an ELyse/Darthe scum team based on the last two pages of posts

UNVOTE: Nachomamma

VOTE: Elyse

Explain.

[Elyse]

I don't see Ztife's post as scummy at all. I just think you guys disagree with it.

I'll respond to Nacho when I get on a computer.

I'm not going to list all of my reads. I don't like doing that. My top scumreads are you and RD.

@Poppa
I'm not going to listen to someone just because you say so. Sorry.

I really don't like you two in the same game anyway. I like playing with Nachomamma but it's annoying to have someone who is like his sidekick in a game too.

P-edit: This is ridiculous.

[Elyse]

I do it a lot actually.

[Elyse]

This game.

Lets lynch Elyse

VOTE: Elyse

Why

@Grim
Your case on Ztife is basically what you accused Nacho of doing to me. You said, "Making a case against one person is easy. You ISO them, you nitpcik on their posts, put everything in a bad light, and put the attention on them." Moreover, if you think that me vs Nacho is town vs scum, then you should really be on one of us rather than creating a new wagon. Also, can you explain this link between me, Darthe, and Ztife you keep mentioning?

@RD
I know what opportunistic means, but thanks for the lesson. My point was that if you ask someone to vote for you, and they do, it's not opportunistic.

@Nachopoppa
Your reasoning for switching off of Nacho and onto me is complete shit.

@Nacho
Here's an example of me giving a reads list without wanting to:

I hate doing reads lists like these, but apparently I'm tunneling so here we go:

_Zaradi_ - Null
Amethyst Actor - Town
BT - Null
fuzzybutternut - Nullscum
gangsta_duck41 - Scum
Grandi - Town
Keybladewielder - Null
Mathdino - Scum
MonkeyMan576 - Nulltown
mozamis - Scum
Salamence20 - Null
Z3r0 - Null

I really don't like mozamis' last few posts. Wouldn't mind his lynch either.

Gangsta, why do you keep asking people why they think me v. you is town v. scum?

I'll respond to the quote wall soon. It's just so tedious and arguing with someone you like takes the fun out of it for me.

[Elyse]

I don't go directly and try to lynch someone for everything they do.

That's not what I accused you of. It's just strange you had such a weak response to someone trying to spring for a lynch on Page 5. Is explaining an RVS after the fact really scummier than that for you?

Baezu seemed noobish and it could be explained by that.

Again, why don't YOU explain it? And what I explained DID matter.

I'm not explaining it because it's not my suspicion. Why does wacky capitalization equal scum?

It wasn't so much the capitalization as it was the "I swear I'm town" when no one was really pressuring her. The capitalization was for effect.

YOU ARE DOING THE SAME DAMN THING. And I had an excuse. I was sick. Do you want a doctor's note? I'm not going to not point out something I see as scummy just because other people think I'm doing it.

No, it's not. I was sick for the beginning of the game and now I'm contributing and interacting. This post was literally your first non-shit post (actually it still is shit but at least you tried?), so you can't say a damn thing.

You're not going to stop pointing out things you find scummy just because you're also doing it; why do you expect me to behave differently? Also, the point wasn't that you were lurky. I never cared about that. All I was noting was the hypocrisy.

I'm not even going to start about how you are being hypocritical by you doing nothing until there was a wagon on you and asking me for my reads when you haven't given your's.

But Future's lynch would have helped me determine Darthe's alignment.

If Future was scum, sure. If Future was town... wouldn't really give you much, would it?

Yes?

No, he said to lynch him to make sure that we don't let SunnyDays off the hook for his entrance into the game. He said that we shouldn't have abandoned an L-1 wagon like that.

This doesn't help your case at all.

Yeah it does, it disproves what you were saying initially.

I didn't see the mod's post. People miss posts all the time. It's not alignment indicative.

When it pertains to your top scumread, it sort of is.

No it doesn't. This is actually your stupidest point. It's not like posts that contain "thegooner" are highlighted or something. I missed the damn post. It's not scummy. You are reaching like crazy here.

P-edit: Good Pappa.

[Elyse]

nacho's case seems abstract, Elyse gives me an overrall more town feel.

My case is that Elyse suspicions on Gooner and Future were both opportunistic. In the first, Slandaar attacked Gooner because of his vote on Elyse, and Elyse latched onto a strong player and sheeped him. In the second, Future got a sizeable wagon on him, Elyse called Baezu (who was trying to lynch future) scummy because of his attack, then suddenly Future joins Elyse's suspect list for no reason.

I entered the game sick. I wasn't there at the very beginning. I noticed thegooner's weird vote. So did Slandaar. That's all. You are misrepping me saying that I called Baezu scummy. I said she seemed bloodthirsty. I already explained that Future was scummy to me and the first time I mentioned it is when you said I was just hopping on other people's reads.

Next, Elyse has apparently had a townread on Nachopappa, which contradicts her gooner scumread, and apparently has had a scumread on me for a while. The scumread on me came up after she was questioned about me, and the townread on Nachopappa came up after I asked her why she dropped her Gooner scumread. I don't like the timing of either of them.

I don't have a townread on Nachopappa. I said his entrance seemed townish. He's null right now. And yeah it contradicts my gooner scumread. I'm sorry that he's not scummy too? How is changing my read scummy? Wouldn't it be scummier if I continued saying that Nachopappa was scummy when he wasn't? Also, my scumread on you started from your unexplained votes and bad attitude towards me pressing you for information.

Then there's her posturing to jump on wagons with potshots, hypocrisy, lynching a lesser scumread with a bigger wagon because she feels one player she doesn't suspect is avoiding the wagon... It's not abstract at all. Hard to follow since the case has come through bickering walls, but certainly not abstract. Why do you disagree?

Nice buzzwords. Now "potshots" aren't what I was doing, and I never "postured to jump on a wagon" with them. You have been more hypocritical than me, and Darthe avoiding the Future wagon was just an additional reason to lynch Future, not the main one. Stop misrepping.

[Elyse]

@Nachopoppa
Your reasoning for switching off of Nacho and onto me is complete shit.

What do you think of Ztife's reasoning to move his vote to Nachomamma?

I think it's perfectly normal. No one is looking at BP right now, so he moved his vote somewhere useful.

Are you going to explain the connection between Ztife, Darthe, and I?

[Elyse]

Sigh.

I guess I'll respond later. I might not because this is really annoying.

I just feel like a whipping boy this game and there's really nothing I can do.

[Elyse]

Elyse if you promise me that you're not scum then I will believe you, but if you lie it will make me very unhappy, and thats not nice.
I have extended the totem of trust, do you accept it?

Yes, I accept it. I promise I'm town.

[Elyse]

Hey Baezu it'd be nice if you did something for once. Thanks.

[Elyse]

I'm not saying there wasn't scum on your wagon, but how are you supposed to distinguish who's scum and who's not when you asked people to vote you?

[Elyse]

I did. I can't find it. I probably missed it in the walls of fluff.

[Elyse]

I did. I can't find it. I probably missed it in the

walls of fluff.

Sticks and stones baby, sticks and stones. You know it ain't true.

Summary for our Highness:

Ztife - Elyse: Ztife's choice for voting Nachomamma and not Elyse
Darthe - Elyse: Role in the Red Dragon wagon
Darthe - Ztife: through Elyse

And for the three of you: on the fence reads on one another.

Anyway, this is a sidenote. The associative tells were just a sidenote, and you are sidetracking me by asking these questions to repeat myself.

Ztife is scum and I'll try to get him lynched. ToDay.

The "connection" between me and Ztife is bogus. So anyone who thinks Nacho is scummier than me is on a scumteam with me?
Darthe and I both thought RD was scummy and voted for him? Is that our "role" on the RD wagon?
And the third one doesn't make sense if the first two aren't legit.

On the fence reads of one another? Ok, I guess I'll give you that, but that can be said about a lot of people in the game. I have Darthe leaning town and null and Ztife.

@Baezu
Why are you voting me? You haven't given any reasons and have not posted one shred of content in a long while.

@Grim
Well I thought RD was scummy and I still disagree that's it's opportunistic to grant someone's wish. I think the word opportunistic gets throw around far too much anyway.

Also, if me calling your walls fluff makes you angry and hurts your pride, you need a thicker skin.

[Elyse]

I never said it's stupid, but a lot of it is over-analyzation and fluff that can be condensed into a smaller format that will help out both you and the people who don't have the time/energy to read your walls.

Your fluff isn't the scum fluff that tries to make your case sound better than it is, but you just repeat things a lot and make stuff extra wordy. I'm not trying to be mean, but this game is giving me an overall cranky feel so I apologize if I angered you.

[Elyse]

WOW

VOTE: Elyse

I found a major slip:

I'm sorry but this is really dumb.

I swear I'm town too.

Am I am townread now?

Versus

Elyse if you promise me that you're not scum then I will believe you, but if you lie it will make me very unhappy, and thats not nice.
I have extended the totem of trust, do you accept it?

Yes, I accept it. I promise I'm town.

That is a MAJOR scumslip

How is that a scumslip? Chernobyl asked me to promise I'm town. Am I going to say no?

[Elyse]

I'm not saying that people have to believe I'm town by me saying I'm town. You are misrepping me like crazy.

And how the hell is that opportunistic? Is that everyone's favorite word here or something?

[Elyse]

Grim got a townread off Baezu for swearing he was town.

I think that's a bad reason for a townread.

Cher asked me to swear I'm town.
I did.
He thinks I'm town now?
I don't necessarily agree with that reasoning, and I'm certainly not using it as a point to prove I'm town, which is what you are saying.

[Elyse]

Fuck you Red Dragon

[Elyse]

That post was so over the top and I'm not an idiot. I got into this game late from being sick and I'm trying to grasp everything and the last thing I need is someone who wanted to be lynched a few pages ago calling me think, dense, a fail at logic, etc.

[Elyse]

The only things I got pissy about were Slandaar's post (I was tired) and RD's post (way out of line). I certainly don't dish it out as harsh as RD just did. I never insult someone personally for no reason.

[Elyse]

I am pushing Baezu. Have you seen my posts say that she's doing nothing? She's not responding to me.

[Elyse]

I can compromise on Baezu.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Baezu

She hasn't done anything and her posts have been strange. Ever since her "I SWEAR I'M TOWN!!111!!!" people have been townreading her for no reason. And she's been coasting off that.

Nacho/me could be counterwagons to RD scum so I'd be more comfortable lynching RD/Baezu.

P-edit:
I'm just ignoring the Nachoparents back-and-forth for now.

[Elyse]

No I am happy with a Baezu lynch

[Elyse]

This "compromise" is so I don't have to argue with Nacho anymore because, guess what? READS CAN CHANGE. The RD wagon quickly dissipated into forming the Nacho and Elyse wagons. Nacho and I are probably town and the scum is just watching.

And I didn't say you were unproductive by posting the case on Ztife. And I thought Nacho was scum then so I thought you were just diverting attention but now it's different because Nacho is probably town.

[Elyse]

@Nacho
You were never a very strong scumread of mine. I never voted you. It was mostly wagon PoE and your hypocrisy.

But my reads? As I said I don't like giving out a whole list.

RD, Baezu scum.

Grim, Sunny, Darthe town.

Everyone else is pretty null. A few leans here or there but nothing too definite.

[Elyse]

Gah.

PeregrineV - null
Darthe - town
Slandaar - townish, though I felt his jump onto me was weird, seemed like he was going after nacho and just changed directions
Grimgroove - town
Ztife - null
Nachopappa - null, thegooner was scummy, pappa is weird and can't really get a read on him, probably town though
Baezu - scum
Nachomamma - depends on RD, probably town
Red Dragon - scum
BP - I forgot about him. Will have to reread
chernobylcitybus - leaning town
Elyse - obvtown and sexy
SunnyDays - town

[Elyse]

This game is a clusterfuck right now.

I see Miss Stranger's points, but I still don't think Darthe is all that scummy. I find myself agreeing with a lot that he says. (Yes I know this isn't a towntell, but it shows it's coming from a town perspective)

But we've had not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, but SIX major wagons form today. That's one short of over half the playerlist.

Future (Sunny Days), Red Dragon, Elyse, Nachomamma, Baezu, Darthe.

What's up with that? I've never been in a game like this before and it's really baffling. I'm betting there are one to two scum in here and one to two scum outside of it. What does this tell us? Absolutely nothing.

Out of the six wagoned people, RD/Baezu seem the scummiest.

Out of the seven non wagoned, I guess the scummiest would be PV/Ztife. PV for doing nothing and Ztife for Grim's case.

[Elyse]

Where did Darthe scumslip

[Elyse]

1 day till deadline!

[Elyse]

You are all being ridiculous. Take your head out of your ass for like five minutes.

Miss Stranger's case is bs. So what if someone accuses someone else of doing something they did? Why would scum do that? They wouldn't bring attention to something they did as scummy, whereas town would take the risk to get a scumread lynched.

You need to take your emotions aside and decide this logically. Darthe isn't scum. Just because he's "mean" (which he's not) doesn't mean he's part of the mafia.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE: Baezu

Baezu, please investigate someone besides me. I will explain tomorrow, but PLEASE do not investigate me. You will have to trust me on this.

Intent to hammer Darthe.

[Elyse]

Scum roleblocked you or you're lying.

It would be best if I went another day without explaining but I will if necessary.

VOTE: RedDragon

[Elyse]

I just reread nachos iso. He voted for Elyse 3 times and was pretty convinced she was scum. Then when we came back from n1 she immediately puts a vote on rd and gets a Wagon going. I think Elyse is scum trying to earn town cred by bussing her partner bc I believe both Elyse and rd are scum. Even though rd is closer to being lynched I gottavgo with the instigator here. I've gotten bad vibes from her all game. She's a good player, she's just scum.

VOTE: Elyse

Why would I kill Nacho as scum? I would've killed you/Slandaar/Grim probably. It doesn't make sense for me to kill Nacho and I don't get why you would vote for someone with less votes if you think both are scum.

[Elyse]

Baezu said I would kill Nacho. And I said I wouldn't. God forbid I hypothesize who I would've killed as scum.

Those three all had/have scumreads on me and I had/have townreads on them so I can't get them lynched.

And Nacho wasn't even scumreading me near the end.

[Elyse]

Fine. I'm a miller JOAT.

I have one track, one protection, and one vig shot.

I didn't want Baezu to check me because I appear guilty obviously and it would've been a waste. I used my protection on her.

[Elyse]

I can prove it with a vig shot tonight.

[Elyse]

What the fuck? So you're saying you thought you investigated Pere because you were high? But you actually investigated Slandaar? Did you still get no result.

Also, I CAN PROVE MY ROLE WITH A VIG SHOT. You're dumb if you still want me lynched. Or scum.

If anyone's claim is questionable, it's your's, miss odd-night-cop-no-result-on-Pere-JK-I-was-high.

[Elyse]

Yeah I don't believe this
VOTE: Baezu

[Elyse]

You would've asked me regardless. And I breadcrumbed miller in my first post.

[Elyse]

And I'm not stupid enough to claim miller joat as scum. That doesn't even make sense. I wtf'd at my role when I got it but there's nothing I can do about it.

[Elyse]

M

eh.

I

only know

L

ike Kattaze and that's it.

L

ike I usually know almost

E

veryone.

R

andom playerlist.

VOTE: Kattaze

Here's my breadcrumb btw.

[Elyse]

Oh come on. There wasn't much I could say with the letters J O A T that wouldn't look obvious.

[Elyse]

I didn't claim in my first post because I didn't want to.

[Elyse]

Let us assume you are a miller, you breadcrumbed as such, why did you decide to do that?

So people would believe me later when I claimed.

[Elyse]

@Slandaar
Where are you going with this? I'd have to claim when I'm brought up to L-1, am investigated, or mass claim.

[Elyse]

It avoids pointless discussion at the beginning of the game about my miller status.

And even if claiming is optimal play, why am I scum for not playing optimally?

[Elyse]

How about I give you guys a three-person pool for my vig shot?

[Elyse]

@Mod

V/LA until Wednesday the 17th

[Elyse]

I claimed because people asked me to

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RedDragon

[Elyse]

Do you do that as town and scum, Miss?

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PV

[Elyse]

There's no way I have a 1-shot protect ability and PV is a doc. If it was the reverse I would've CC'd PV once he said protect was a JOAT ability.

[Elyse]

L-1
Deadline is tomorrow.

[Elyse]

My play was poop but meh I don't think town would have pulled it out anyway with that fake newb thing.