Mini 1452 - Inevitable Mafia (Game Over)

[RadiantCowbells]

/confirmity confirm

I replaced jmo's slot and really like his playstyle. I will enjoy playing with him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, and that's ten confirms so game on!

Vote: Broseidon

[RadiantCowbells]

First content post. By the way, if there really are masons, there is no reason for them to out their partners first day.

@Gorckat Further elaboration on that first post of yours is definitely warranted.
@jmo16mla His point regarding your differing responses to the same actions is correct. Elaborate, please.
@Rob13 Your case piques my interest and leads me to consider you town, but I do not entirely support it.

And what would that be? Unless they are masons together I can't see how gorkcat would know radiant is town.

I find it interesting that the first thing that comes to mind here for you is that Gorkcat could be mason and not that he could be scum; almost as if you already know he's not scum?

Correct, I am totes fine with your statement, even though I don't see any way for you to know radiant was town.

You shouldn't be fine with someone making a statement like that without any elaboration.

I think Rob's point about him is accurate.

Baah.

VOTE: DCLXVI

[RadiantCowbells]

I would like to make clear to everyone that I do not in any way support a jmo16mla lynch at this time.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think we should get DCLXVI up to L-1.

But that's just me.

[RadiantCowbells]

By the by - is there a reason for this? Perhaps a post or some meta reasons causing you to lean Town on JMO that I wouldn't understand?

It's actually more of a meta reason. I've replaced him when he was town before, and also checked his meta to verify; he is getting very angry, which is something he usually does as town but not as scum.

I also feel like the people voting him are primarily voting him because of the aforementioned anger, rather than because of his tunneling. The tunneling in question also makes him look townier rather than scummier, as in my experience town are more likely to tunnel than scum.

Also, I am committed to seeing my current wagon to fruition. With that said:

Basically, I think your post was an effective way of trying to get us out of RVS which is town motivated. I don't believe you had any reason to call radiant town though. You just chose the first player to vote.

Is there some particular strategic advantage you get from withholding useful logical information from the towN?

Not sure yet, I've only seen him as town, not scum. I will say that a TMT scum flip would look really bad for him though.

@rob, if you write a glob of text with poor formatting, don't try and act surprised that someone misinterprets your case.

I like how you're subtly pushing this TMT lynch without getting behind it.
I also like how you act like his well ordered post was a "glob of text" with poor formatting.

Or should I say dislike?

@Everyone who is not currently voting DCLXVI, why? Do you see a town motivated reason for his repeated deflections?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm unvoting for now to give this more thought.

I may or may not still vote him, and am still broadly in support of this lynch, but am in no rush to lynch a mason claim.

Nor am I in the mood to waste a huge chunk of discussion time.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to re-vote for DCLXVI for now.

Don't hammer him until I get a chance to make my final decision for what I want to do today.

VOTE: DCLXVI

[RadiantCowbells]

V/LA for a day.

See you then.

[RadiantCowbells]

Back. I've made up my mind and am definitely pushing the DCL wagon to its finish.

The votes on me are ne comprende.

radiant wants someone to hammer me but she wants an easy out so she isn't responsible for the lynch. that is scummy as hell.

On the contrary, I have pushed for this lynch from the onset, and will take complete responsibility for it. Unless you're seriously asserting that there was a significant chance of someone randomly quickhammering for no reason, then your case holds no water, and if you are seriously asserting that, then what information does that give us about the quickhammerer that town can use? No, your partner isn't going to quickhammer you for towncred, relax.

3. I will absolutely not reveal who that person is day 1. I will explain that more later today but there is no good reason for me to be outing my partner at this point.
4. If I were to die before naming my partner, at latest he or she should claim the day before lylo is likely to occur.

There is a very good reason for us to want you to out your partner today. If you are mason as you claim, then that gives us a clear assuming one of you dies tonight without the possibility of a counterclaim. If you're scum, then you have to throw one of your partners under the bus, which in the likely chance this save has at least one investigative role allows us to confirm both of your identities. In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity, because if scum knows you're telling the truth, they'll kill you tonight and then your partner will function as a counterclaimable named townie; mostly useless. However, if you out your partner then you will still die tonight, but then we have a confirmed clear tomorrow to lead us. Also, if you continue to not out your partner, I will continue to vote you and push for your lynch, and I will make damn sure that no votes are getting split; it's me or you, and if I get lynched, fine, but I promise that you will lose your head tomorrow.

Why is radiant self-voting?

Because why not.

tl;dr:

DCL, if you don't claim a partner, you will get lynched today.

@everyone else, stop letting DCL divert attention with the shitty wagon on me. Rob is also a strong contender for partner status, making DCL/Rob potentially two members of a 3 person scumteam. His responses to the pressure on him sucked elephant dick and he doesn't do anything for town except strut around playing passively while acting like his mason claim makes him confirmed town.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

look townie by participating in Mason discussion

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

And then TMT stops confronting me about my vote.

Clarify

And that Yates callout from TMT was very, very good.

I really do hate to say it, but it looks like a scumtell to me, because after Yates' 248 it looks like Rob is grasping at straws.

DCL isn't scum. With that stated, I obviously agree that there are better lynches than DCL. Two lynch candidates I like better than DCL are TMT and CoolDog. I like TMT and CoolDog for numerous reasons. Most recently I like them as scum for an obvious role fishing attempt while trying to make it sound proTown.

A role fishing attempt? You're saying I'm making an obvious role fishing attempt for a Mason?
And you seem to be ignoring Radiant's push for the mason out, which makes it look like you're gunning for me and ignoring other people in the process.

3. I will absolutely not reveal who that person is day 1. I will explain that more later today but there is no good reason for me to be outing my partner at this point.
4. If I were to die before naming my partner, at latest he or she should claim the day before lylo is likely to occur.

There is a very good reason for us to want you to out your partner today. If you are mason as you claim, then that gives us a clear assuming one of you dies tonight without the possibility of a counterclaim. If you're scum, then you have to throw one of your partners under the bus, which in the likely chance this save has at least one investigative role allows us to confirm both of your identities. In the case of you being mason, there is no benefit whatsoever to the withholding of your partner's identity, because if scum knows you're telling the truth, they'll kill you tonight and then your partner will function as a counterclaimable named townie; mostly useless. However, if you out your partner then you will still die tonight, but then we have a confirmed clear tomorrow to lead us. Also, if you continue to not out your partner, I will continue to vote you and push for your lynch, and I will make damn sure that no votes are getting split; it's me or you, and if I get lynched, fine, but I promise that you will lose your head tomorrow.

Why is radiant self-voting?

Because why not.

Uh, what the fuck? Looks to me like a weak attempt to towntell.

@everyone else, stop letting DCL divert attention with the shitty wagon on me. Rob is also a strong contender for partner status, making DCL/Rob potentially two members of a 3 person scumteam. His responses to the pressure on him sucked elephant dick and he doesn't do anything for town except strut around playing passively while acting like his mason claim makes him confirmed town.

This accusation really doesn't make sense to me and looks like namedropping.

VOTE: Radiant

This post triggered my alarm bells, and others have been pushing for his lynch, so I did a full ISO of him to be sure.

1452 are the digits of my address number

I used to live in Austin

Kitoari what is this WHAT IS THIS

Null. No one had really moved past RVS at this moment but neither did he push to end it.

VOTE: DCLXVI

All caps username competitor

Also roman numerals are dead get over it

Except for Super Bowl

[quote='Does Bo Know"]The only players I know in this game are Jmo and TMT.

Way to throw a pal under the bus then, bro[/quote]

Interesting that his supposed RVS stage targets the person who would be a target for most of the day. I've noticed that scum tend to RVS their partners; perhaps this could indicate that TMT/DCLXVI is a scumteam, but if DCL is indeed mason, TMT is probably not the mason. Scummy, but possibly coincidental.

Well not I'm embarrassed for messing up the quotes

Slightly town. Mafia generally apologize for things like that, to seem compliant.

I'm not an alt. I'm new to forum mafia.

Irrelevant.

Someone, please let me know what I did. I feel like it's one of those situations where people are talking behind your back, but in a way so that you can hear snatches of the conversation.

This is where we start to look scummy. Town are generally disinterested in cases upon them, except for the purposes of figuring out who could be legitimately scumhunting or who is simply throwing out a random lynch. This looks like he's on the defensive, and trying to be compliant like I asid above.

Note that I am reading the last 3 pages and formulating a response. Please stand by

Null, since his follow up post justified the prod dodger.

Splitting up his next post.

I understand your reasoning, but I really didn't realize that we were out of RVS. And that doesn't explain DBK's reasoning.

Not realizing that we were out of RVS shows inattentivity, which shows that he is not scumhunting. So, either extremely lazy townie or scum who doesn't need to do anything.

Note I say this with extreme caution lest you believe that the frivolous content of this is an anti-town action, but Doctor Who is a great show.

Refusing to get into WIFOM on this point.

Also, from that I understand, DCL is being called scum because

1. Confidence in gorkcat being town
2. Subtly pushing lynch on yours truly
3. Dodging questions

I really only think number 2 is a legit scumread on DCL, unless I missed something.

This is wrong. He had no reason to believe that gorkcat was being town, and dodging questions is generally scummy in its own right, whereas subtly pushing on you is only scummy if he has no or sloppy justification for it. Why are you so defensive that you think that pushing on you makes someone scum but doing scummy things is something you're ok with?

Also, DBK, I'm still interested in your vote on me, as it obviously has to be different from Rob's, because you made it clear that you thought I was scum before I posted my mistimed RVS vote. You said you would explain, so please do so.

Null, leaning scum. A town explanation could be he wanted to read DBK's explanation to figure out if he was scum, but it's more likely that he's just overly concerned with self preservation, and by extension the arguments against him.

I'm not sure about this, but I don't like that mason claim, partly because masons were discussed earlier in the game...
Should we get the other mason to confirm?

Why is radiant self-voting?

Very scummy. He's being compliant and asking others for their opinions, instead of having the balls to decide for himself what he thinks is best for the town.

Also, every single person in the game noticed that I was self voting. No one else commented because no one cared; it's irrelevant, and everyone else realized that it didn't matter. It seems to me like you're trying to look like you're scumhunting by pointing out things, even if they're meaningless.

Anyway, I think Does Bo Know is scum.

Nearly no content posts, almost all fluff.
Pushes me early with no explanation.
Very mitigated statements.
I'll make my verdict after Bo's catch up post.

Ok, so Bo's catch up post happened.

I can't agree with any of the comments on DBK, but I do feel the need to point out that his OMGUS only extended to the person with the weaker argument for the lynch; that looks like town trying to figure out which scum are on their wagon.

Other content-
JMO is scum because his inconsistency
DCL is probably town but could be scum (again, mitigation)
Rob is town but you say "Bad bad bad" (what?!)

I disagree with two of those reads, but they do have substance behind them. Slightly town.

really do agree with rob in the other mason claiming.

If dcl is mason, then we'll have confirmed town tomorrow.
If dcl is scum, we'll have confirmed scum or two tomorrow.

Quite scummy that you're not willing to say that and have it stand on your own shoulders.

Yates. So you think that asking the mason partner to claim is a reasonable request, as per your #200.

And yet when I say that I think the other mason should claim it's the so called "straw on the camel's back" that makes you vote me?

Overall a good point, even if the self preservation instinct does look slightly scummy.

I had no ulterior motive for my beliefs in the other mason outing. If I was trying to look townie, then why would I state something that is viewed by others as a scumtell? I believed the other mason should out, and I hadn't seen anything that would change that opinion.

Scumdar triggered. Only scum need to point out that their thought process isn't scummy in this manner; it's not argumentative, it's just matter of fact. Especially in a situation like this where multiple people all agreed the partner should out, I don't see why a town player would feel the need to talk about their thought process with such a decision.

After rereading BROseidon's, I see why the other mason shouldn't be revealed.

I find your lack of original content disturbing.

I really do hate to say it, but it looks like a scumtell to me, because after Yates' 248 it looks like Rob is grasping at straws

Perhaps. Do you find ANYONE to look town?

A role fishing attempt? You're saying I'm making an obvious role fishing attempt for a Mason?
And you seem to be ignoring Radiant's push for the mason out, which makes it look like you're gunning for me and ignoring other people in the process.

Bingo, but perhaps he's doing so because your push is corroborated by other evidence of your scumminess? This looks town however, because town are less likely to be able to understand arguments against them, because they know they are town.

Uh, what the fuck? Looks to me like a weak attempt to towntell.

Again, you're wasting time pointing out something that everyone else realized was irrelevant. So either you're inexperienced, or you're scum. The fact that you think that my selfvoting has made me scummier than any other person in the game leans towards the former though; I can't see scum pushing a wagon for this reason.

This accusation really doesn't make sense to me and looks like namedropping.

VOTE: Radiant

Do you even know what namedropping is?



Summary: Either very inexperienced town or relatively inexperienced scum.
I really think he just doesn't really know what he's doing, explaining the self preservation and sheeping, so I support the CoolDog and DCLXVI wagons more than I support this one.

My vote stays where it is for now.

@Radiant: What do you think of CoolDog wanting to lynch DCL even if he claims a mason partner and the partner confirms?

Very scummy. The value to town of having one mason left alive is almost null, because the remainder is almost certainly going to be killed that night anyway. Lynching DCL without him naming a partner makes sense, because that leaves the partner free to claim before lylo and give us a confirmed clear on any date. If he names a partner, it makes more sense to leave him alive for now, and who knows? If they're both scum, maybe a cop will check them and give us two confirmed scum at once.

At this time, I still support a DCLXVI lynch and a CoolDog lynch. Unless I see something else from TMT that makes me think he's scum, I am not willing to support that wagon unless the choice is TMT or a NL.

[RadiantCowbells]

I fucked up the formatting, but hopefully you guys can figure it out.

[RadiantCowbells]

The major thing that made me check him was the fact that he voted me with really shitty justification.

But after reading what he's posted so far, I'm more inclined to consider him just an inexperienced player in general, and I think that if he was scum, he would have made many more obvious scumslips than he has so far.

Also, most of what I read that made me lean town was his excessive self preservation focus and his misguided push on me, which can also be attributed to him just being a new player.

I wouldn't strongly object to the lynch normally, because I think he's useless to town unless he's a PR, but as DBK said, there are much better lynches today. Hell, I'd rather lynch at least half of the game over him, most notably CoolDog and DCLXVI.

Furthermore, TMT isn't the only person voting me, and he at least gave rationale; I don't like the fact that anyone is trying to wagon me right now, and I'm still trying to decide whether the others are misguided town or scum trying to avoid attracting attention by sitting on an side wagon. That includes you too, by the way, but, for now, I consider you fairly town. Your current vote still sucks, though.


Last thing: I said his posts were scummy, not he was. Scummy is here defined as coming from a non pro-town viewpoint, but there's the mitigating factor of him being inexperienced and not understanding that win condition, and so not acting in that self interest as I would typically understand it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, can we get a vote count either at the top of this page or in an individual post?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am certain there is at least one scum on my wagon and need to reassess my reads on Nhammen and Rob13.

When I get back tonight there will be more on this.

[RadiantCowbells]

I figure I'll just selfvote this, because there is no coherent argument that I am scum yet four idiots are on my wagon.

I have no desire to play with a town this bad, so I'll just lynch myself to confirm myself and leave you guys with strategy.

If we have anyone else with vig powers, shoot DCLXVI tonight. He's scum.

Lynch DCL if he's not already dead, then kill Rob.


Feel free to do whatever you guys want following that.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

Last words:

lynch Rob13 and DCLXVI. Gorckat is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

TMT is town. Cooldog is probably scum.

Pedit., last words without a claim?

I am a compulsive JOAT with one commute, one nk, and one cop invest.

Town sucks dick though, so I am unmotivated to play this out.

[RadiantCowbells]

@radiant why were you so concerned with getting me lynched when you could have investigated me? Or shot/commuted later on?

hurdur

Dont like the lack of dcl lynch selling being done. Lots of focus on others

game too hard

[RadiantCowbells]

I did stop being "concerned with getting you lynched" with the intention of investing tonight, so I start looking for the scum on my wagon, then Gorckat votes for me because I'm apparently ignoring my scumreads.

logic.

[RadiantCowbells]

Roflcopter seems awesome and his presence has reinspired me to work for the town win.

I'll post

role suck blah blah

More likely, the save is balanced around the shot and the invest going off, which would explain why commuter is in the list; if a claim is forced d1, I'm still not an obvious target. If you don't like the amount of power put onto a single role, take it up with kitoari, but if DCL really is a mason, my role probably exists for the purpose of confirming the masons. There are also likely no doctors or jailkeepers.


roflcopter seems awesome and his presence has reignited my interest in the game. I'm going to post my full ISOs of Rob13 and Cooldog to explain why I support their lynches.

VOTE: Rob13

For now. Get your votes off me and TMT, please.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Gorckat if I'm scum then my replacement will be scum too so your vote would stay where it is, and since you want me lynched you shouldn't care if I get replaced, no?

[RadiantCowbells]

Quite frankly, I have never actually played with masons in a serious game, and how I felt they should be dealt with when potentially seeing them in action was different then how I actually felt about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I never breadcrumbed but I did let slip that I had vig powers when I said "someone else has vig powers."

I guess the wording "vig powers" as opposed to being vigilante kind of slips JOATness.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why shouldn't I support a lynch on a scum?

I just don't need it to happen because I have other options to confirm your scumminess.

I know you don't want to get shot tonight, but your argument sucks, just like it has sucked since you guys first started pushing on me.

[RadiantCowbells]

If they are scum we don't trust them, because scum lie. If they are town, we don't trust them because if we lynched them then they must have been playing badly. Players should give reads though, because the same name keeps coming up as scum among doomed town, then you might want to take a closer look at that name.

Hey dipshit

people voting townies are just as, if not more culpable for the mislynch as the people who got mislynched.

don't blame me because you suck at scumhunting.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, Rob13 is obvscum.

Roflcopter is awesome and I hope we're both still alive tomorrow.

I have a suspicion that if I do hard commit to shoot Rob, I'll just be shot myself and town loses its other abilities, or perhaps roleblocked so that scum can push a lynch on me.
So it's like, I really want to, but then I think town must need my other abilities, and then I need to prove myself and shit, but whatever.
I'm fine with dying, whether I am able to get Rob to die too or not, so I probably won't use my commute tonight, but I made my mind up what I'm doing and have breadcrumbed it clearly.

DBK's unvote has made me uncomfortable about his alignment, regardless of what CoolDog flips.
I hope I'm still alive tomorrow to do something about it :V

[RadiantCowbells]

Cooldog, assuming you flip town, who would you want us to go after? Who do you think is scum on your wagon, besides DCL?

[RadiantCowbells]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

Hey, in case you hadn't noticed, that's 3 potential town power roles outed.

I'm not stupid enough to think that there aren't going to be equivalent mafia power roles. Why are you trying so hard to set me up?

[RadiantCowbells]

@Others, I am firmly committed to shooting Rob13 one of these days.

It just might not be today.

Also, Rob, I find it fairly interesting that you seem assured that there is no serial killer in the setup. If I was SK, there would be two deaths tonight. If I was mafia and there was an SK, there would be two deaths tonight. You have completely ignored the possibility of any of these scenarios to make sure that I commit to using my shot tonight. Are you just trying to set me up for tomorrows lynch by having me role blocked, or are you just going to kill me to get rid of my investigate?

So no, I'm not committing to using my shot tonight, because doing so would virtually guarantee my death, given the presence of commute on my kit suggests that there is no doctor.
I might, and I might not, but I will and have to within 3 days so your impatience to have me prove my role, which wouldn't actually prove my role, suggests that you don't actually care about proving my role and just want to have me vulnerable to a night kill or a role block tonight.

But yeah, you might live tonight. I am not taking away my ability to WIFOM my actions, which was the inherent advantage of having a commute anyway.

two masons + JOAT.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your previous post indicates to me that Cooldog is one of your partners and that you are a roleblocker.

If Rob doesn't want cooldog lynched, I do.

VOTE: Cooldog

[RadiantCowbells]

Or even better regarding the first post, does your knowledge of what the mafia team is suggest to you that there will only be one KPN in the setup?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think your switching your vote after my postulating the existence of a role blocker suggests that there is a roleblocker on your team, whoever it is.

It's also probably not CoolDog, because you were expecting it to go through after you bussed your partner.

After a Cooldog scum flip, at this point, suspicion will be high on you. You would prefer to divert the lynch, preferably onto Roflcoptor, who is an EXTREMELY easy lynch because half the town hates him.

It seems clear to me that you never expected to die from my shot, even though if I was mafia/sk the logical thing for me to do would still be to kill you.

You are scum, Cooldog is scum. I am not overly concerned about which gets lynched today, because after a Cooldog scum flip I feel very safe just commuting tonight, getting you lynched tomorrow and then feeling free to use my shot and investigate without the threat of it being wasted.

It's way too late for you to try to jump off this wagon, Rob. Go on and hammer your partner for some towncred.

Also, what's with the big turn around Radiant

1) Roflcoptor
2) I want you dead

[RadiantCowbells]

Or better wording for 2) I want you to lose.

[RadiantCowbells]

So where are you getting the stuff about me not expecting to die from your shot?

Why else are you so insistent on me using my shot today when I could use it in any of the next three days, and in fact if there were two kills tonight, then three kills tomorrow, that would *actually* confirm my role, as no matter how many kills occur tonight, that doesn't prove that I have a role that can up the KPN by one. That would simply prove that there are X killing roles in the game.

I do not believe you are stupid enough to be totally blind to this possibility, so I am left believing there is something you know that I don't. Whether that is you knowing the scumteam and believing that an SK is impossible, or you just wanting me to be vulnerable tonight so you can kill me, or even if there's SOMETHING ELSE that lets you know there is one base KPN with no SK / only one scumteam, there IS somethjing you know that I don't. And there's no way in hell town would know it.

This leads me to believe that you already know my kill will not go through, and that there will be one KPN tonight, hence my wondering whether you are a bulletproof SK who will NK / bulletproof scum / have a roleblocker on your team.

Also, now you say you fully expected to die. But you also think I'm scum regardless. Let's hypothesize a few situations, based on the premise that you're town.

Radiant is Town!Joat. Scum knows this. Rob13 pushes Radiant to shoot him, making him vulnerable confirmed. Radiant and Rob13 die N1. Scum wins.
Radiant is Scum!Joat. Radiant shoots Rob13, Radiant's scumpartners shoot another guy. Rob13's logic has now convinced the town that Scum!Radiant is in fact town. Scum wins.
Radiant is Scum. Goon for example. Radiant knows based on his team's composition that there is no SK. He kills Rob13 anyway and gets lynched the next day. Town wins.
Radiant is Scum. Goon for example. Radiant knows based on his team's composition that there is a SK. He kills Rob13 and the SK kills someone else. The SK knows he's scum, but town thinks he's town. Scum wins.

You already covered the SK paths. I don't think you could have possibly thought through this so poorly as to not realize that if I was scum, the easy out in nearly all situations would just be to shoot you and have people think I'm town, then fudge investigative results while you're dead.

Furthermore, your questionable reaction to the Cooldog lynch, as well as the fact that you changed your vote in reaction to me realizing that there was potentially a mafia roleblocker, leads me to believe that you are scum with a roleblocker on your team and want me to serve as an easy mislynch tomorrow, while simultaneously wasting a shot of commute and investigation.

I postulate that you weren't genuinely bored of the game or throwing in the towel - you were just trying to put on an act to get people to look elsewhere.

I postulate that you are beginning to realize how big the gaps in the logic you were claiming to believe are, and are now trying to find a way to divert attention to that by bringing up the Radi!Scum argument again and trying to divert a lynch on your teammate.

I have reason to believe that my postulations are more correct than your own.

So the joining of roflcoptor made you suddenly interested in the game? Is that what you meant by that last bit? Cause I don't buy that. I don't think any one person whose alignment you don't even know and who had such a weak entrance into this game (no reasoning for anything he said at the beginning) could cause you to do a 180 on your interest.

It's nice to have someone in the game who isn't completely retarded.

It's sort of refreshing, you know?

So yes, let's go ahead and lynch CoolDog, and I will leave open what I intend to do tonight. I prove myself by taking my shot within the next three days, preferably on Rob13.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm obviously pro-shooting-rob

This guy gets it! But maybe/maybe not for the right reasons?

He has directly refused to confirm his role before Day 3. I'm not going to wait until then to lynch him when he's claimed a massively improbably role.

No. I said I may take my shot any of the nights, but I'm not saying what night I'll do what. That is ideal for town in every way, as scum cannot predict my actions.

The absolute best interpretation of your attitude is that you absolutely don't care whether I'm scum or town; you just want me lynched or night killed. I interpret that as meaning that you are scum and don't actually care which town gets lynched, so you don't need to scumhunt. Even the most towny explanation involves acting anti-town.

I consider it more likely than that that you planned to bait me into getting roleblocked when I tried to vig shoot you, and then use that opportunity to push for a mislynch onto me. And your actions all point towards that; after chastising me for not working hard enough in my defense, you are telling me to shoot what would be (if you were town) a confirmed innocent. That's extremely anti town, especially considering unlike me you aren't even giving any reads as you go down. I think that I was dead on about your ploy, that you are scum with cooldog, and are backed into a corner now and are beginning to become resigned to this loss.

he's claimed a massively improbably role.

You need to stop saying that.

When I die or the game ends and my role is confirmed, take my role and go bitch to the normal review board or whoever's job you feel it is to prevent a role like this from getting into a mafia game.

"You are a Statistician (Town)! You love the damned lies known as statistics. So much fun they are, even when they're useless.

You have the following abilties:
Inside Information - You know there is a 0% chance of a jester existing in this game.

I love my statistics <3

I didn't actually know there was a specific ruleset that separated normal games from theme games.

What about bomb and veteran, and the other common roles that aren't on either the normal or non normal list? Are they situationally allowed or what?

[RadiantCowbells]

I still don't know the logic behind why radint would lynch me over rob.

Because a significant part of what makes me find Rob scummy is his association with you, not vice versa.

I'd be uncomfortable with him no matter what you flip, but if you flip scum I would immediately want to lynch Rob, whereas the reverse is not necessarily true.

[RadiantCowbells]

I reiterate that I do not think TMT is scum, I think he's just a very inexperienced townie.

I do not support this lynch, and would prefer you guys put your votes back on CoolDog.

Why have all the cases for CoolDog being scum been dropped?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, you have a point.

Hoopla, why do you think Cooldog is town, and why do you think TMT is scum?

TMT at least to the extent that he's your preferred lynch for today.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I'm shooting tonight, it's going to be Rob.

[RadiantCowbells]

Fine.

If I die because we don't have a doc and you end up town, I'm kicking you really hard in the shins though.

[RadiantCowbells]

I need time to respond to today's stuff and I don't have any time right now.

If anyone hammers anyone they get shot tonight.

[RadiantCowbells]

My thoughts on the last day. I'm ignoring TMT because I still think he's town.

Fuck. You're town, aren't you? I'm doubting that you can play well enough to fake the type of town vibe that I just got off that post.

Scum for how many pages and I changed your mind in twenty words, containing minimal game related content.

Roflcopter is doing two things this game.
1) Pissing me off.
2) Oh wait, he's only pissing me off. He's literally done nothing else to contribute to anything. I've seen town-rofl and he's more competent than this.

Rofl has done plenty. Rofl is not getting lynched today and if I'm still alive tomorrow, Rofl is not getting lynched tomorrow.

Yates has dropped off the map. He's laying low. I don't trust it. Early contradictions keep him in my scum list.

I can actually get behind this, especially considering I have never liked Yates.

This TMT wagon is not great. TMT has played anti-town in all the ways I would expect noob-town to do so. He has done nothing inherently scummy or that can not be understood when looking at things from the mindset of someone new to the game of Mafia and on the town side of things

I'm glad you concur?

And hello trying to connect rofl and CooLDoG.

This is scummy as fk.

my townread on Rob

You had one?

This. Also, TMT should have been in my null pile due to the connection thingy with CoolDoG - I literally copy-pasted my old reads list from a few hundred posts back and then updated a few names that were noteworthy to make that post. Updating TMT was missed.

*facepalm*

Radiant: Read Rob's #451. It seems really town to me. Vig gorckat.

My entire townread on Hoopla just evaporated instantly.

Gorckat is my strongest townread in the game. Further, how does 451 look town to you at ALL?
You think Rob13 is dead set on my being scum and then all of a sudden heel face turns to "might be town" when he realizes a Radiant lynch won't happen?
No, if Rob13 flips scum, you better be next.

Uh - too bad? Deadline is TODAY. We need a lynch by midnight.

That was actually really really stupid by me.


No more quotes because this is getting too lengthy.

@469-472 great catches Rofl/Nhammen. I'm actually great with a Yates lynch at this point, because that would also leave it open as to who I plan to night kill.
If there isn't a role blocker, that would make it considerably harder for scum to set me up.

Also, Rob13's "I'm cool with this if enough support gets behind it." looks to me like he's trying to make sure that support doesn't get behind it, but leaves open the possibility of him busing his partner if enough does.

This is actually the best I've felt about any non-Rob lynch opportunities today and has solidified my townread on Roflcopter.

VOTE: Yates

[RadiantCowbells]

I shot Rob13. So, four possibilities:

1) Mafia killing role was roleblocked last night.
2) Mafia chose to attack the same target to introduce doubt as to my alignment.
3) Mafia chose to kill Rob13 because they thought I was going to kill Gorckat.
4) Someone received doctor protection.

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest that number four is the most likely one, and me the most likely one to have been docced.
None of the options seem particularly likely.

If there is a doctor, I suggest that the doctor not claim unless he or his save is at threat of being lynched.

I am genuinely shocked at Rob13's town flip, but that was entirely his fault for tunneling me like a doughnut.
With a town confirmed in Rob13, I've lost alot of my enthusiasm for the CoolDog lynch.

VOTE: Yates

[RadiantCowbells]

RC, thanks for the claim. Going to obviously want you to claim an action each night.

No, I won't. That would be stupid; I'll claim my next two actions on day four.

[RadiantCowbells]

I should explain this.

Unless the town as a whole requests I perform an action tonight, there's a 50% chance of me being immune to NK tonight.

If I claim an investigation tomorrow, mafia knows I'm night immune N3 and won't waste a shot.

If I claim to have commuted tomorrow, mafia knows that I'm vulnerable and investigating someone.

It's more logical for me to not say what I will do, clearly breadcrumb my n2 action for day 3 so no one claims opportunism, and only claim an investigation if it's to protect that person from being lynched.

Any disagreements?

[RadiantCowbells]

Roflcopter should go later, and you should claim much earlier than Broseidon suggests.

huge wall from cooldog blah

There's no need to be such an asshole but you do have valid points and I will keep them in mind going forward.

I'll do my own thing from now on.

[RadiantCowbells]

What is an LD role?

[RadiantCowbells]

Why? What makes you think he'd even be alive D4?/quote]

Because if I don't say when I'm doing what, scum targeting me would have a 50% chance of hitting me while I'm commuting, thus wasting their night kill.

This is something they'd be very unlikely to do.

If we are willing to assume Radiant is town, then it is optimal for him to wait until D4 to claim results from his other two abilities

As I already said, to CoolDog's immense chagrin.

Especially because the chance of me being NKed just skyrocketed after the mass claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

The lack of PR claims convinces me that scum are hiding in the VTs.

This makes me believe that the masons are legit.

Hoopla may or may not be the other mason, and because of that, DCL should say nothing further unless he can make a strong argument without relying on being/not being mason. Don't narrow down the pool for the second mason.

[RadiantCowbells]

I really like this Yates lynch, to the extent I'm willing to out the second mason over it.

DCL, please give the word as to whether Yates is your partner.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, they don't at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't want him to make any comments on anyone in this game except yates: answer whether he is the mason partner or not.

GTFO Jmo.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you literally retarded?

Hoopla may or may not be the other mason, and because of that, DCL should say nothing further unless he can make a strong argument without relying on being/not being mason. Don't narrow down the pool for the second mason.

was in response to

dcl why do you have hoopla as a townread?

IE DON'T ANSWER ROFLCOPTOR'S QUESTION.


If you're going to be a fucking doorknob and say nothing about Yates then fine, doesn't change strategy for today. But stop being a fucktard and acting like it's my fault for acting scummy.

I mean fuck. If you lynch town, it's every bit as much your fault for being an ignorant twat as it is theirs for looking scummy. Just because you guys all jerk each other off about it doesn't mean you didn't fuck up and maybe instead of being HURDUR YOU'RE A SHITHEAD BECAUSE I VOTED YOU BECAUSE YOU DONT CONFORM TO HOW I PLAY THE GAME you can take a big step back and actually fucking THINK hey maybe I could do something differently

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Unvote

This is temporary. I still fully support this lynch.

Yates, you need to talk-

1) What was your result that so intrigues you?
2) Who was it on?
3) Make a full list of reads so we know who you want us to look into tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anything Yates tells us would only serve his own interests.

VOTE: Yates

[RadiantCowbells]

I will take his input on Nhammen/Roflcoptor under advisement.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will take his input on Nhammen/Roflcoptor under advisement.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or he could manipulate us into doing stupid things.

Nah, not happening on my watch. I trust my scumhunting more than that.

Starting to question my townread on JMO.

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't care what he has to say because Roflcopter is town.

I'll do my own ISO of Nhammen. I don't like how he has evaded the spotlight this whole game.

he could easily have been a mason. that was more important. you're just being results oriented.

That's a possible explanation, but not wanting to lynch your scumpartner is another.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, this town is actually fucking retarded.
Yates said Rofl was scum to try to confuse the town. This isn't a multiball setup, nor is there an SK; what kind of mod designs a setup with three potential kills in one night?
This is a 3 scum setup, or possibly two scum + traitor. Masons and a JOAT do not constitute enough town sided power to counteract the anti town power of multiple killing roles.
I could really see Yates/Nhammen/x as a scumteam. Does anyone else think #629 looks totally insincere?
It also seems to me like JMO already seems convinced of the multiball idea. I don't know how that would be possible for scum to know at this point though; maybe something in the scum composition suggests it?

Also, I did my ISO of Nhammen and really don't like what I found. He's a good candidate for the noose tomorrow.

Final reads at the end of today:

Scummy:
Nhammen
Jmo
Hoopla

Towny:
Roflcopter
Broseidon
Thadmiral

Seeing the flip on Yates would help me with my reads immensely.

[RadiantCowbells]

That sounds like a good deal. But I've got a better one.

VOTE: Hoopla

[RadiantCowbells]

Just to clarify, Hoopla asking me to claim my action is logically untenable and cannot benefit town in any way, but is very beneficial for scum.

If I commuted last night, that doesn't help anyone, period.

If I investigated an inno, then obviously I would stop my inno from being lynched, correct. Unless I'm scum, in which case my confirmed inno isn't a confirmed inno.

All that my claiming now does is tells scum whether or not they should target me tonight.

It's also thanks to Hoopla that my vig shot was completely wasted.

Finally, last mason should sit tight unless they get voted up. If I don't claim an action and mason claims, he dies tonight, no matter what. There's pretty much no benefit to you claiming today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Broseidon looking pretty dang towny to me. I approve of this lynch.

VOTE: Nhammen

[RadiantCowbells]

If Nhammen is scum I am definitely checking Gorckat tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not sheeping people, other people are sheeping me.

I was the first one to push on both Nhammen and Hoopla.

You characterizing it as me "sheeping" you is something I don't like at all.

VOTE: Broseidon

[RadiantCowbells]

It's like you're setting me up. There's absolutely no positive interpretation of it.

You could be blatantly misrepresenting me intentionally. That's scummy.
You could also not have read the thread very well and not realize that I first pushed on Nhammen last night. That would show you're not scumhunting, which is scummy.

It's hard to state a clear motivation for it without flips on one or both of you, but there's no positive spin on that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mostly wanted to see your reaction, which I liked.

I still think you're town, in other words.

Nhammen voting Rofl seems very opportunistic; lots of people have expressed dislike of Rofl, and it seems like Nhammen is just happy to pin the lynch on anyone who isn't him.

VOTE: Nhammen

[RadiantCowbells]

Hoopla can wait.

[RadiantCowbells]

gg riot

Just to explain my votes so everyone's clear:

Nhammen has never done anything except follow the town's opinion. He gets on the major wagons, never leading or hammering them, and has generally the same reads as the majority.

That indicates him as scum to me; I don't see any effort at all to find scum in any of his posts.

Same goes for Hoopla; he bosses people around all game but doesn't actually come up with any scumreads of his own. No scumhunting at all.

What they both have in common is that they scumread Roflcoptor; perhaps the scumteam is Rofl/Hoopla/Nhammen?

My vote on Broseidon was to make him explain his previous post; I still consider him leaning town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Cooldog, why do you favour a Hoopla lynch over a Nhammen lynch?

[RadiantCowbells]

Nhammen is now at L-1. Anyone who hammers before he gets a chance to claim mason or not mason will be lynched immediately tomorrow, regardless of flip.

Gut... mostly.

Also note how we don't see much of hoopla nowadays. Try to fall under the radar??? hmmm.

That's a good observation, but I've seen fuck all from Nhammen as well. Do you not see this behaviour from him as well?

How the fuck do you not scumread Nhammen?

Do people specifically think gorckat is town? I really don't see why he hasn't got any votes on him.

I'd rather lynch hoopla out of hoopla/nhammen if it does come down to those two.

I don't specifically see Gorckat is town. He's looked scummy over the last few days, but I note that there was a point that he was my biggest townread, so I'm not voting him over Nhammen.
Regarding the lynch, why? Nhammen is the last person left on my wagon, and I would be in disbelief if there was no scum on that wagon. It's weird that there wasn't two.

Furthermore, instead of defending he's just deflecting. I still don't like Hoopla much, but Nhammen is a much better lynch today.

I think nhammen is a better lynch than hoopla.

@ThAd: You>gorck>>>>CoolDoG in terms of likeliness, as sure as I can be scum was on that wagon. For letters wagon, am less sure that there was scum on it, but I think it's still more likely than not that there was scum, with gorck=Hoopla>jmo.

There was 1000% scum on the letters wagon. TMT was obviously town, and other than Nhammen, literally every single person I have a leaning scum on was on it.

Gorckat's the only really likely scum on the DCL wagon.

Reads:

Town-
Thad
Bro
Roflcopter

Null-
Cooldog
Jmo
Hoopla

Scum-
Gorckat
Nhammen

I'm less sure that Hoopla is scum and that Cooldog is town than I was, but I'm starting to see a scum Gorckat. That would be an excellent lynch for tomorrow.


Also, I came up with an interesting theory from the votecount. In the past, I've found that scum like to spread their votes but are almost always represented on one major wagon. Between Jmo, Gorckat, and Nhammen, they are represented on EVERY SINGLE wagon in the game, but never more than two of them. It also gives a different theory behind Jmo's weird voting patterns, which I have noted but never been able to figure out a reason for.

Nhammen, claim now whether or not you're mason.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright.

Now we just wait for a flip.

[RadiantCowbells]

LOL baited and outsmarted

I got an inno on CoolDog and commuted last night.

Mason should go ahead and claim today so they don't get CCed.

VOTE: Hoopla

[RadiantCowbells]

That's amusing considering you weren't on the Nhammen wagon either.

Hell the only wagon you've been on was the TMT wagon and he was obvious town.

You've been a fat lot of help, haven't you?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, that's just about enough from you.

VOTE: jmo16mla

[RadiantCowbells]

More like lynch me, kill Cooldog tonight.

I'm guessing this is a two mafia save and you've just given up at this point?

[RadiantCowbells]

Dumbtelling is fun.

[RadiantCowbells]

See my vote? There should be more like it.

[RadiantCowbells]

From my experience as scum saying something like that it's almost always one scum/one town.

I'd be more inclined to consider Gorckat scum than ThAdmiral, however.

[RadiantCowbells]

No seriously guys, I think this is a two scum save and JMO gave up when he couldn't kill me last night and we were left with 3 conftown.

Let's just wrap this game up.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Unvote

If anyone counterclaims mason, they will do it in their next post.

[RadiantCowbells]

JMO, why do you say that Hoopla isn't scum?

Make a case instead of being useless and antitown.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hoopla has not scumhunted or a committed to a scumread.

All she has done is tell other people what they should be doing and debating night game, which in that sense is a similar ISO to Nhammen and exactly what I expect from scum.

Looks active and looks pro-town without risking stepping on anyones toes or committing to a position that could come back to bite her.


I actually through Broseidon was the mason for the longest time. He's still leaning town though.

I'm going to hammer Hoopla. If you want to place your vote, do so in the next 24h.

Jmo, just because you're mason doesn't mean you be a useless fuck and screw the town over. This isn't the only viable wagon today; convince me.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Jmo, Broseidon at no point ever gave serious consideration to the possibility of DCLXVI not being town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm hesitant to place this vote because I have a gut suspicion that JMO might be right.

Who is down to lynch Gorckat today?

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh, regardless of what Gorckat flipped I'd still jump on Hoopla next.

VOTE: Hoopla

[RadiantCowbells]

I've been looking at this for a while and I don't really favour a Gorckat lynch right now.
Let's get Broseidon.

Radiant is town.

Discuss.

Absolutely maybe.

This sentence ticked me off a long long time ago, and when I was revisiting Broseidon it caught my attention again.
Sarcastic response to a comment meant to generate town discussion? Don't like it at all.

Yeah but I knew I wasn't the other mason

RC can you just hammer this shit already?

Doubly bad. Tries to stifle discussion, and the first sentence is a non-denial denial of being scum.
I wanted to switch votes yesterday to him except I thought it was a bus and this was to gain towncred on his teammate's lynch.

DBK already covered why I took it as a joke, hence a joke response.

Now on a more serious note, am I the only one bothered by:

Way to throw a pal under the bus then, bro

Every real town knew he wasn't actually claiming scum.
This is basically trying to look town while not scumhunting in the least.

DCLXVI improperly representing Rob's argument and sheeping onto letters as a result seems too reckless to make me think that it's scum motivated. Don't like JMO's shitty meta argument and AtE, though. Very defensive.

VOTE: JMO

Fine. Really nothing wrong with this or his vote, except stuff that will come later of the position he's taking.

@Rob: What about his post seemed serious, though? I read it as a joke, which is why I'm confused as to why you interpreted it as serious (and why you assign this reading of his response to JMO in your points against him).

I am not in any hurry to lynch a mason claim. That would be really fucking stupid. If we have reason to suspect that the claim is false later, we can lynch then. Fuck, a mason coming forward and saying "he is not a mason" would be worth it if this were a fake claim; I'd trade a mason for scum.

This is what made me think he was the mason. That bit at the end was so blatantly obvious that there was no reason for it; obviously a mason would come forward if it was fake?
More useless shit.

I think a mason number would be good, but not their identities. DBK pointed out the use of having named townies in LyLo, but that's only true if we know how many masons there are as to prevent mason fakeclaims when all the masons are taken out.

The way this reads to me is that he's trying to make it look like he's the partner subtly pushing DCL to claim a number of masons.

Okay, now I'm comfortable taking DCL's claim at face value. Obviously will reconsider if information pops up that contradicts what he's given, but what he's given makes sense.

Really hate what RC did there. Makes 0 fucking sense in terms of town motivation, but also little sense in terms of scum motivation since scum should not be willing to so blatantly trade one person for a mason. Same thing with me wanting to think Cooldog is town - the move is just too blatantly idiotic for me to believe that scum would pull something like that. Does anyone have scum meta on either Cooldog or RC? Do they tend to play very boldly in the day phase as scum?

Again, he's OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO LOOK LIKE A POTENTIAL MASON CLAIM.
Jmo was on the down low about it. Broseidon is trying to look like maximum obvious mason partner so he can come fakeclaim it later.


Don't need to extend this wall anymore.

VOTE: Broseidon


Another big one for me is.

Can we just get a flip so that all this fucking WIFOM can stop. I don't have the energy for this shit.

This looks to me like he's worried about a multiball or some shit. It doesn't look town at all.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, saying to lynch ThAd is idiotic and it looks like he's just positioning himself where he won't be called out for causing or being on a mislynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have information that I can't give at this point in time that suggests CoolDog is 100% not godfather.

TBH, I still think it's you/Broseidon but I'm happier with my vote on Bro than you right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

What I've told you is enough. If I die, don't lynch CoolDog tomorrow no matter what.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay, I'll bite.

What's your case for ThAd being scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Okay, bro.

Why do you have a town read on Roflcoptor?

[RadiantCowbells]

I still really want to believe that Roflcopter and Thad are town.

[RadiantCowbells]

radiant what the fuck are you doing - unvote yourself.

If you want to lynch me go bro tomorrow, then probably gorckat. But I'd prefer gork/bro today.

Actually no if we mislynch we lose now right?
Yeah don't lynch me first.

VOTE: Unvote

Relax, guys. If there are 3 scum now then that means there were 4 scum from d1 and all the town power we had was a JOAT and two masons.

Not. bloody. likely.

I'm even wondering if you're intentionally dumbtelling.

no, no ,no. unvote now, quick. Voting yourself could lead to a quick lynch.

Still not seeing it. You guys are so paranoid.

I was testing reactions.

If there's three scum or someone numb enough to the circumstances to vote RC.

It is silly of RC to be doing, and the question is still open about experience off-site and voting conventions there.

Cooldog- where are you on rofl? Do you think Bro is the other scum?

I'm okay with trading with Thad if he's scum and you really want to get me before him, but we need to hit scum today for that to be possible.

If Thad is scum, then we can roll Bro tomorrow. But if you roll me first, then that's it.

No, I know what an unvote is.

Self-votes generate discussion and I'm feeling stuck on what to do next.


Right now I'm feeling one of ThAd and Gorck is scum with Broseidon.

I mean I really don't want to give roflcoptor a free pass anymore because I had the hugest townread on him and he just took that and went MIA for the rest of the game.

Where we are in hypothetical votes on scumreads is

Gorckat- ThAdmiral, CoolDog, Roflcoptor, RadiantCowbells, Broseidon
Broseidon- Thadmiral, RadiantCowbells, Gorckat
ThAdmiral- Broseidon, ThAdmiral

I mean it's just really disconcerting that everyone's treating Roflcoptor like conftown even though he's contributed spectacularly little. I'm hoping that everyone wasn't just sheeping my read on him.
Can everyone in their next post explain why they think Coptor is town?

Either way, it looks like Gorckat is the probable lynch today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I need more time to think about this.

[RadiantCowbells]

CoolDog / Rofl, I am leaning towards a Broseidon lynch today.

What do you think?

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually you know what fuck it.

Go ahead and quickhammer if I'm wrong.

VOTE: Broseidon

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to replace out if this lurking continues.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd like to think the lack of a hammer means that you're scum and that they're hoping I'll change my mind.

But this lack of activity is just sickening.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why don't you explain why that is instead of just sitting there doing fuck all?

Hell, for all you know I'm scum with Gorckat. Why are you letting me lead town to a lynch you don't like?

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, why don't you do something about that instead of just lurking?

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, you would have to get an unvote fast or else town would lose.

Do you not care?

[RadiantCowbells]

Either there's an undeclared doctor (who would be you) or they targeted Rob to get me lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you planning to ask me or any of the other people on the Broseidon wagon to change their votes?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Unvote

[RadiantCowbells]

Nevermind.

VOTE: Broseidon

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually really want to vote you because today has convinced me you are scum, but the lack of a hammer means that you're scum with Broseidon.

I don't believe that Cooldog is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, he believes I'm scum with CoolDog and therefore lying about my investigation.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Rofl was actually scumhunting, that would have been the conclusion he'd reach long before he'd think I was scum with CoolDog.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright, Broseidon.

You're good for now.

VOTE: Roflcopter

[RadiantCowbells]

Or he's scum alone.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, it doesn't.

But Rofl has to be scum and Rofl+Broseidon makes no sense, and there was no hammer.

[RadiantCowbells]

I gotta look back into your interactions with Rofl.

Give me a bit.

[RadiantCowbells]

OH NEVER FUCKING MIND.

VOTE: Broseidon

Broseidon like NEVER addresses rofl.
Rofl addresses him ONCE.

It's Bro/Rofl for sure.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am so fucking drunk now you wouldn't even know.

VOTE: Unvote

Not risking me drunk making a shitty as s decision right now. I'll return to you brosephes when I'm not super fuci n drunk

[RadiantCowbells]

I would much rather see Rofl lynched than Broseidon, though I do think it's Rofl/Bro.

[RadiantCowbells]

A Rofl scumflip makes Broseidon 100% confirmed scum whereas it doesn't work in the opposite direction.

Also, Rofl has looked awful today and has just lurked away the rest of the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Radiant- what changed re your thoughts towards me between nhammen's flip and sharing you inno on Cooldog?

I still thought you were scum at that point.

I've shifted away from thinking that mostly today because Rofl just seems ungodly scummy today, and I noticed very scummy things about Broseidon that had slipped my mind. A significant part of my townread on him was thinking he was the mason so that was big too. You also don't make much sense with Rofl.

[RadiantCowbells]

I just don't buy it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually there's a reason but if I explain it mafia will do something tonight that will drop our chances to win significantly.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I say anything beyond what I have already said I will suggest scum strategy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum would care if they knew what I was going to say.

Or are you telling me that you're scum and you don't care?

[RadiantCowbells]

I got an inno on Cooldog.

I'm not saying why I don't believe he's a godfather because there's no reason to; if either of us die tonight it becomes irrelevant. It's more important that town know than that they know why.
I'm guessing scum thought I was an SK and therefore bulletproof, and therefore preferred to get me lynched than to try to take the shot themselves.

No, I couldn't be scum with ThAd, or anyone else. That would make this save incredibly imbalanced, unless there are unclaimed PRs.

How do you think Scum!Radiant benefits from withholding my information that will only serve to help clear someone who would theoeretically have to be town if I was scum?
Why are you so dead set on having that information outed?

Just to make this ultimately clear.

We hit scum today and you or CD get popped.

That info is either moot (CD dead) or unavailable (you dead).

If CD dies, that's fine. Me not giving the information won't hurt us anyway.
If I die, that's fine too, because you're not going to be stupid fucks and lynch him anyway.... right?

[RadiantCowbells]

My logic is absolutely nothing to do with my role. I have a cop inno on CoolDog; that's it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Stop fishing.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nah, fuck it.

VOTE: Gorckat

[RadiantCowbells]

Gorck is dead set on finding a reason to think I'm scum.

While Yates was derping out and claiming cop as a townie, it was noted he had not investigated people on his scum list. Somewhat amusingly, you did the very same thing. Some will say cops should look at the nulls and others will say that cops should confirm scums.

Then why the fuck even bring it up?


It's obvious by the way that you're posting that you don't consider me scum, yet you're making arguments like you think I'm scum. Ergo, you're scum.

Just hurry up and die please.

[RadiantCowbells]

Stop messing around and lynch Gorckat.

[RadiantCowbells]

You know I won't.

[RadiantCowbells]

Au contraire, Bro, why do you think me or CD are scum?

Even if I didn't have an inno I would be inclined to think he was town at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

My logic is absolutely nothing to do with my role. I have a cop inno on CoolDog; that's it.

I have further information based purely on setup speculation and the knowledge that this save was approved that suggests that CoolDog is not a godfather.

[RadiantCowbells]

I haven't voted RC because I am waiting for the rest of the town to weigh in on whether or not I am totally off-base or not.

Going by the simplest explanation, RC is legit because nothing contrary has come up (claims or flips), and absent GF knowledge we probably should not assume one 'just because'.

That said, RC's varying statements based on his results make me skeptical. It wasn't a simple waver between 'innocent' and 'not scum', but it was 'inno' and 'have info he is not a GF' which are not the same thing at all.

I can imagine scenarios that is possible, but it does not align with what has been claimed and leads to a 'lynch all liars' position because it would mean information was obfuscated at a point it should not have been and landed us (or at least me) here.

I have said nothing at all to do with my results; I have a cop inno on CoolDog. You are twisting my words to suggest that I have said something else.

Further, lets assume there IS a Godfather in the game. Does that mean CoolDog is him? Not any more likely than anyone else, and I daresay less likely because on D1 a Godfather would NOT have claimed VT under threat of lynch. That is just idiotic; they would have claimed a lesser power role, particularly after there was a known invest and asked to have been checked after the mason died.

CoolDog didnt do anything to bait the investigate and is thus almost certainly not a Godfather.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, optimal GF play by far would have been to kill one of the masons N1, let me shoot rob, then ask to be investigated the next night to get a cleared scum.

CoolDog scum doesnt make sense at all; end story.

Gorckat continues to talk to me like I am town while pushing suspicion onto me. That is like the biggest scumtell in the game; check Newbie 1478 for an example of me using it. Please lynch him.

[RadiantCowbells]

I haven't voted RC because I am waiting for the rest of the town to weigh in on whether or not I am totally off-base or not.

If you think I am scum why the fuck do you care what the town thinks you make the town follow your reads not follow what other people think.

Unless you don't actually care about scumhunting, that is.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because "information that I can't give at this point in time" is positively role related.

[RadiantCowbells]

It is totes possible for you to be scum faking JOAT and clearing CD for the cred.

Yeah, it's possible.

Why don't you make a case for it besides "RC wasn't clear about why he thought CD was town11!" instead of waffling harder than the golden griddle up the street?

I mean I know guys have a fear of commitment, but someday you gotta put the ring on it man.

[RadiantCowbells]

IF the rest of the town thinks there is nothing there, then I'll let it go for now.

IF the rest of the town wants more out of you, by way of what info you won't share, then give it or get hung.

See, that's the kind of thinking that makes you obvious scum.

-MY ALIGNMENT- does not change whether or not the town thinks that I need to post more information.

If you think I'm scum, then you should start getting other people to think so too. If you don't think I'm scum, then you should start making me believe that you're not scum.

What other people think doesn't come in to play at all, because if I'm town, you need my vote off you to lynch scum, and if I'm scum, you'll need me lynched.

I say you're waffling not because you're strictly waffling, but because you're indecisive as fuck and don't do shit besides follow the crowd. Besides D1, you have not made a single independent though this entire game.
Even this push to test whether or not me and CD are actually scum is just a copy of Roflcopter.

That is why I say you are scum.

You say I "might" be scum because I'm withholding information for a reason that I have clearly stated, because you're gauging to see how receptive the town is to the idea of lynching me.
Just fucking die.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you can't get me lynched and I'm scum you might as well try because otherwise you're going to LOSE.
Town would understand that.

[RadiantCowbells]

regarding your secret knowledge and results on CD.

on D1 a Godfather would NOT have claimed VT under threat of lynch. That is just idiotic; they would have claimed a lesser power role, particularly after there was a known invest and asked to have been checked after the mason died.

CoolDog didnt do anything to bait the investigate and is thus almost certainly not a Godfather.

optimal GF play by far would have been to kill one of the masons N1, let me shoot rob, then ask to be investigated the next night to get a cleared scum.

CoolDog scum doesnt make sense at all; end story.

[RadiantCowbells]

Correct.

Mafia kills me, CoolDog is clear tomorrow. They were almost certainly going to given that they already shot at me.

Mafia kills CoolDog, I'm not clear tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's worth outing that to make sure you get lynched, though.

[RadiantCowbells]

You obviously didn't know that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, if I'm scum, why the fuck do you care about what I have to say?

[RadiantCowbells]

There is no way in hell that I am lynching ThAd today.

[RadiantCowbells]

My gut tells me he's town. Something about the way he posts tells me that he's being genuine.

[RadiantCowbells]

Bro/Gorck best scumteam.

[RadiantCowbells]

CoolDog, if you intend to hammer this give me one last chance to explain to you why this is a shitty idea.

[RadiantCowbells]

We thought the same way about nearly everything, and I know my thoughts are coming from a town PoV.

That makes it extremely likely that he's town too.

[RadiantCowbells]

Never failed me yet.

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's see a link?

[RadiantCowbells]

@CoolDog

What if it's not and I think that's an acceptable thing to say to get everyone to stfu?

[RadiantCowbells]

I honestly should not have said that but at this point I'm starting to lose interest.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nhammen and ThAd's reactions looked completely fine.

Thad generally seemed interested in scumhunting, unlike certain other persons.

Yeah, I'm confirming there's more to my confirmed inno on CD than just my investigate, but me saying it would be a stupid as fuck thing to do and it's not going to happen.

Everyone can go fuck themselves, in short. Why aren't we lynching Gorckat?

[RadiantCowbells]

So now you've realized that the ThAd lynch isn't going through.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll repeat it again rc: if you think I'm town bro is scum by default. He's the lynch today.

If you explain that logic I will instantly vote broseidon.

[RadiantCowbells]

Bro/Gorck makes a shit ton of sense too.

[RadiantCowbells]

OH I GET IT.

VOTE: Broseidon

[RadiantCowbells]

Why?

Gorck is WAY WAY scummier.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC/* is illogical because it suggests that there are three scums versus a town with two masons.
Thad/CD is illogical because it suggests that mafia would have 3 people including a godfather versus our measly town power.

If I'm scum I am scum alone and would almost certainly get lynched if this went to four person lylo anyway. From a town PoV, I'm a horrible lynch today for this reason.

I'm okay with this though, assuming that Rofl or Thad don't get me quickhammered.

[RadiantCowbells]

Have I mentioned CD is definitely town?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am down for a no-lynch.

Thad is not getting lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pretty sure I'm not either.

[RadiantCowbells]

On Broseidon.

Gorckat is scummier than Rofl, not Bro.

[RadiantCowbells]

Next post will be a massive wall of text.

This is the absolute last chance for anyone to claim a protective role.

[RadiantCowbells]

Waiting on Gorck and Rofl. Cooldog says nothing.

[RadiantCowbells]

Just real quick I had nothing to do with any doctor protections. Not trying to be opportunistic.

If Rofl does not claim doctor, my course of action today is clear.

[RadiantCowbells]

Might as well claim that now since it's too late for any doc CCs.

[RadiantCowbells]

Want to go ahead and claim a role?

[RadiantCowbells]

He's probably a traitor.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're not a save role, then Gorck probably targeted him and no night kill because of it.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's also quite possible that you just figured that out right now and want to go head to head and get me lynched for the win.

[RadiantCowbells]

Not if he didn't know there was a traitor.

I have meta experience that suggests otherwise on your first statement.

Going to ask you one last time for a role.

[RadiantCowbells]

I won't be able to link it until well after this game is done.

Rofl, this is your last chance to claim a role.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Roflcopter

[RadiantCowbells]

Cop claim is improbable given my role.
JK is possible but I've given better reasons and that wouldn't confscum me anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, cop with no leads at this point in the game is unbelievable.

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum who just realized he has a traitor and wants to push a mislynch?

[RadiantCowbells]

No seriously, what are you going to claim? This fascinates me.

[RadiantCowbells]

LIE DETECTOR FOR 50$

[RadiantCowbells]

Already said it; CoolDog is probably a traitor.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nearly confirmed given that there was no death last night and scum were obviously going to target CD if he wasn't a scum outright.

[RadiantCowbells]

It worked.

Mafia attacked him.

[RadiantCowbells]

It was genius actually, feel free to use that word.

Mafia were virtually guaranteed to attack him if we mislynched.
If we lynched correct, he wouldn't attack me because I was flipping shit about how inno I was.

The only way yesterday could have turned out badly is if we lynched right and then mafia killed me.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's assuming he'd even get a night kill.

[RadiantCowbells]

Gorckat didn't put a vote down, thus confirming Rofl as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

You aren't both scum, therefore GG.

It amuses me that you tell rofl to clarify your shit even though your vote clearly states that you don't care about his shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, that wasn't a vote.

Fascinating.

[RadiantCowbells]

Completely logical.

By acting like CoolDog was town, I ensured that even if we mislynch it wasn't a loss, as you see now.

[RadiantCowbells]

When the game is done, reread my ISO yesterday and see how a master plays.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because by doing so I made the mafia target him and give us another day?

Obviously it doesn't matter given that, y'know, at least one town is voting, but I'm still #1.

Autographs?

[RadiantCowbells]

Too much town power for 2 scum, not enough for 3 scum.

Anyone could have figured it out.

I just had to make sure there was no additional town power, which if Rofl actually was would claim, so there isn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah.

Nhammen had to be the one to survive to the end, not me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Other than my claim, was my play the day before today good?

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually had a really good argument over my inno on CoolDog but I never got to use it because he didn't die.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah.

I claimed what I did to buy a few nights with the expectation that I'd be PLed a few nights down the line, but then Nhammen was looking so scummy that I wasn't sure what to do.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wouldn't say town played particularly well, but scum did pretty poorly.

I was nearly lynched D1 and Nhammen was pretty obvious throughout.

I must say that if Nhammen didn't vote me D1 this game would have gone entirely differently. I had to do a risky gambit because of that because I knew that after I get lynched if anyone analyzed the wagon they'd know Nhammen was scum instantly.

[RadiantCowbells]

If that's true, I played badly.