Mini 1556: Greetings Without Spain (GAME OVER FAREWELL)

[Lucresia]

I've done a few read-throughs of the thread and here are some observations I have as well as some responses to some of the posts.

eh.. i dot want this wagon to move to fast... espescially with so few people having posted... but eh L-3 seems safe enough... gonna hop off if a tries to go off thoo.

This post doesn't feel right and I am smelling another motive. Your words sound like you want to be in a "safe" spot on a bandwagon, then jump off at the right moment to avoid suspicion. This SCREAMS scum to me. You are already planning on jumping off the bandwagon when it gets high already, is that because you know pisskop's alignment to actually be town? Hmm.

kcd is most likely town atm btw

Care to explain further?

VOTE: Aisa
Comment.

Ummm..what?

oh...

oh hooooooo

you

are so dying before this game is over.

Is this a threat or something?

Wouldn't the "hammer" have given good info had he flipped town?

It would have...but only if we had more time already passed on day 1. We need to gather as much information as we can before the night hits.

Okay some more thoughts:
1. Kthxbye - His posts indicate actual scum hunting and helping us gather vital information on day 1. High probability of town.
2. pisskop - Explaining an rvs vote does seem scummy to me. Also, I don't like his explanation about just being "derpy". It doesn't suddenly give you credibility.
3. kcda - Most of your posts are making my brain hurt trying to read them. The few that made any sense seemed scummy (see above.)
4. Xay - As someone who also keeps up on the thread via her phone when I can throughout the day, I know how it is to come back home and find that a bandwagon blew up from scum and a townie is dead. I can understand retracting the vote if you thought we were 5 to lynch, for this reason.

Vote: kcdaspot

FOS: Aisa, pisskop, & ika

[Lucresia]

Thank you Luc for joining the game with a non-tarded post.

I like where you're head is at for the most part. I did however notice you completely left d3x out of the post. Why is that? What's your read on him atm. I know it's a bit to ask page 3, but give it a go plox.

As for the vote on Kcd. I understand where it's coming from but what are your thoughts on him poss being VI over scum?

I didn't really have much of an opinion on d3x at the time. His posts were very close together (within an hour so), and most of his comments were based off of your post. That could be seen as scum trying to agree with the conversation and go with the flow, not really providing any new input. However, with it being so early on, I mostly dismissed it. He's posted a lot more since then and I will provide some more opinions on him below.

Regarding my vote on Kcd. I feel like he has given off the strongest scum vibes. I do think there's a chance he could be VI which would mean it might not be the smartest lynch on day 1. I don't want that to be his excuse, just like how pisskop gave the derpy excuse, which is essentially the same. All that being said, you've given me a bit of a reason to pause on my vote on Kcd. I still don't like his posting style, but if he is VI it would be worse to lynch a townie on day 1.

Unvote

Is this a threat or something?

Yes it is. I'm lynching him before the game is over.

Why? You haven't explained why you think I'm scum or given a case on ANYONE at this point. You just go around blessing people as town or scum or trying some tarded gambit and backing out when called on it. Example of this below.

This is why I don't like his posting style. It isn't conducive to actually uncovering information about anyone -- meaning it DOESN'T help the town. It just gets everyone confused and annoyed. He's either scum or VI.

@X- Do you feel that this is Townpiss? Why/why not? Is he a 'stand on the sidelines' kind of player? Does he ever ScumHunt as Town? As Scum?

I'm also wondering this as well. If they are best buds they should know play styles a lot better. I haven't played in a long time, so most of your playstyles are unfamiliar for me.

In post 54, d3x wrote:
In post 35, Aisa wrote:
VOTE: Aisa
Comment.
Do you often SelfVote? If not, why here? Do you not see merit in the conversation that is taking place? If you agree with kcd that piss is Scum, where's your Vote on him?

Well, the number of games I played is too low to be statistically significant.
But no, I never selfvoted before. I didn't want to put PK at L-2 that early, and with a quick look I didn't find anything else scummy. A vote on anyone else would have been almost completely random, so I chose myself. Ideally, I would have gotten a reaction or two out of that. "Comment" as in "Discuss". Sorry, I couldn't come up with a less ambiguous word.

Fair enough answer. Still we were trying to get out of RVS, and you made a general RVS vote. I'd think you would have had some opinions on the current conversation. You're still on my suspicion list. I'd like to see more posts from you.

In post 34, ika wrote:
kcd is most likely town atm btw

What was the purpose of this? It seems pointless filler to me. Your other posts aren't that exceptional either.

VOTE: Ika
Fos: Pisskop
For now.

Is that your only reason for voting ika?

I have only read up to post 73, and have no time to keep posting right now. I will update the thread in a little bit with some more thoughts.

[Lucresia]

Back home now and I am caught up.

so far the onyl legit thing i have seen is a case on Kthxbye so im just gonna sheep for now untill we have some real info

I'm curious as to what the "case" actually is against kthxbye. The only other vote on him so far was ice, and it seems more based on his own personal scum tells. Can you tell me why

you

think he is scum?

Also I don't like the idea that you are just going to vote and then sit back. You complain about one line responses, but then that's all you are giving us so far. Sitting back and not contributing is a scum tell. The less you say, the less we know about you. That won't help us tomorrow when we need to analyze day 1 in more depth.

[Lucresia]

But your posts seem all baseless so I am still trying to sum up the case against him. I'll go back through your posts.

[Lucresia]

Mod: I did an UNVOTE in post #100

Noted!

Welcome to the game Rhinox.

But your posts seem all baseless so I am still trying to sum up the case against him. I'll go back through your posts.

So what did you come up with?

After reading his ISO, it seems his whole case is that you are appearing to him as trying too hard. I still think it's baseless because he just quoted something pisskop said and then said three people were doing it but didnt give any direct examples. In my opinion, there's a clear difference between trying too hard and scum hunting. I'm seeing you looking for clues and that gives me a pro town read on you right now.

So the case on Xay right now is based off him jumping off the bandwagon right? Or did I miss something else by him?

[Lucresia]

sorry for the poor activity between Friday and today (busy busy weekend). I have a huge post coming within the hour once I can finish catching up on this thread and laying out my thoughts

[Lucresia]

What makes KCD scummiest thus far?

What made KCD seem scummiest at that point was that his posts had little to no content, his accusations seemed baseless against kthx (whom I had a town read on), and he trolls super hard.

This is not my experience with ika. To reduce all the current conversation to as series of one-liners and then proceed to post a practically naked vote on somebody is enough to flag him for watch. This same ika spent pages setting up and playing intellectual games to try to ferret out scum before.
His apparent apathy doesn't seem genuine to me, otherwise he would just request to be placed out instead of just adding to the mess.

I think this post is the best content pisskop has given us this game. However since IKA now has replaced out, we need to begin to look at titus to get a better idea.

He's not even playing mafia scum. He is trolling. Proof in his next post.

Agreed! Almost all his posts are trolling and I find it obnoxious. However, this is the exact reason I am NOT voting for him anymore. I'm concerned that I am seeing something that's not really there because I find him annoying. Annoying does not equal scummy. I will absolutely not policy lynch him.

If KCDA is scum kthx could be a buddy though. i could potentially see a KCDA-kthx scumteam.

Although this is an interesting theory, it seems like they are going way too hard against each other for it to be bussing. Also I find kthx's frustration with kcd very convincing. Mainly because I too am frustrated with his posting style.

Page 5-

I feel like he has given off the strongest scum vibes. I do think there's a chance he could be VI which would mean it might not be the smartest lynch on day 1.

Nice U-Turn. you pretty much say he is your strongest scum read but unvote him. IGMEOY. this cancels out the gut town read from earlier. I really don't like this.

if he is VI it would be worse to lynch a townie on day 1.

Why did you unvote then?

Lucresia's 100 pretty much reads "KCDA is scum but i'm unvoting" using the same reason as kthx that he is a "VI" unvoting for classic scum reason noted. Buddying noted. Contradictions noted.

As of this post i think the scum team could be -

Lucresia,pissk,kthx

OR

kthx,d3x,pissk

- so far likely the first because of the fact i cant read d3x thus far as he hasn't posted alot.

I didn't take a U-turn or contradict myself. He was still my scummiest lead at that point. That said, my concern after reading kthx's post was that if he's VI, then it's a bad lynch. I unvoted even though he was my largest scum read because we still had a lot more people that needed to provide actual content and I didn't want to vote someone I was now questioning. I have a tendency to think someone is scum that isnt when my judgement is cloudy. His bad posting is probably clouding my judgement, and this pushed me towards being unsure.

Since that time, I have less of a scummy read on kcd. He still has tons of obnoxious posts, but he is very active, and he DID finally explain his case against kthx. I still think it's mainly an opinion based on playstyles though. Even though I found his policy lynch idea scummy, I think kthx is town overall.

I'm still not fully caught up after reading 3 pages of walls. I will have to finish up these thoughts sometime in the middle of the night, in-between my two work maintenances.

[Lucresia]

After catching up on 5-6 pages of walls from 2 days I missed..I think we have enough info to lead us into day 2. I don't know that xay is scum or not. What I do know is that his lynch will provide a lot of analysis tomorrow based on people leading the lynch. @ice -- posting about "old" stuff because that's as far up as I was caught up. What kind of townie gets on people for posting their thoughts on day 1? If xay is scum and you aren't on the vote list we will have found scum for day2. If xay is town, I'll have a bunch of leads tomorrow based on these people driving this lynch.

Vote: xay

[Lucresia]

@ Xay - Why did you think you were hammered? You seem to have some issues here with realizing what L-X we are at. With this now being your 2nd time confused, it feels staged to me. Especially with kthx posting closely afterwards that pisskop is scum for hammering, then kthx quoting you and saying it's definitely not fake.

Possible xay & kthx scum team? Scenario:
1. Xay tries to look like he thought he was hammerred (oh well he's dead and still admits to town, he MUST be town. Confirmed town for rest of game)
2. kthx directs everyone's attention to pisskop who already has 2nd highest wagon by calling him out of what he also pretends to think was a hammer.
3. kthx quotes xay's reaction saying it can't be faked.

If we do have a xay/kthx scum team, we have a whole setup for tomorrow:

1. xay looks like confirmed town for his claim after what looked like he was dead
2. pisskop gets lynched today and shows as town.
3. mafia gets a nightkill
4. kthx can justify his vote as "pisskop looked scummy for thinking he was intentionally hammering xay (our now confirmed townie).

@ pisskop - Did you think you were hammering him when you placed your vote?

I won't cry if Xay hangs today though. If I'm wrong about PK's comment and it was just a silly mistake on PK's part, the case on Xay is solid and he's done nothing to dispute it. The only thing that gives me pause on lynching Xay is that probable slip from PK.

So if you had no problem with the xay lynch, why was pisskop immediately scum for having "possibly" hammered? This prompted me to re-read your ISO and I noticed this contradiction:

Your reasoning is a replacement hadnt posted, but back on page 3, you were already okay with a lynch (of pisskop mind you). That's quite a contradiction:

Wouldn't the "hammer" have given good info had he flipped town?

This "event" has given me a slight change of perspective on a few people. All of this brings a lot to consider, but I stand by my vote for now.

[Lucresia]

PK and Xay are both scum and came up with this little mess in a scum day QT to make Xay look confirmed.

The reason this doesn't fly imo is that pisskop was the next highest bandwagon. This means if he pretended to hammer xay, everyone would push on him and scum would still die. I don't think 2 scum would misdirect to the other scum?

[Lucresia]

I too was attempting to make a post last night but could not reach the site at all. I should be able to post towards the evening tonight or towards the end of work. Mainly posting now to avoid any prods since I did finish reading this morning but have to get ready for work now

[Lucresia]

Sorry for taking so long to follow back up. I don't want to create a huge wall referencing too many past details. I will reference the post numbers on some so there are less walls.

@titus in post 317 - If I scum read everyone that calls me a "he" in games, we wouldn't have very many town. This really isn't a scumtell and although it's frustrating (been there even during this game), I think its far fetched to say that the 'he' pronoun mistake means people aren't paying attention to the game.

@ thomith in post 331 concerning titus' defending of xay: Titus keeps referencing in multiple posts that she thinks xay isn't cleared by the whole "hammer" incident (Which I also highly agree with.) Yet, she's not voting for xay right now. She's voting for pisskop which is mainly based off of her town read on kthx and her believing the scum slip. (which I do not agree is a "slip" of any sort.) So she thinks xay is scum but then she is hesitant to follow through, and then agrees with an argument I consider to be very poor from kthx. This makes me feel like she's trying to go along with what kthx is doing as if trying to back up her scum buddy. I don't however see where she's defending xay, unless you just mean the uncertainty in post 308.

@ Rhino in post 338: I do agree at this point that if no one is willing to really lynch xay, then I need to look for more scum today. I do not want to waste a vote. I do not like a no lynch / deadline scenario. It hurts the town to not take advantage of our chance to get scum. With 7 to lynch and only 1 other person on board, I am in agreement that I need to move my vote. Xay, that doesn't mean you are off the hook in my mind, just on the back burner for now. IGMEOY.

UNVOTE

After re-reading the case on Titus, I am willing to move to this wagon. Here's the main two reasons why:

1. Titus replaced ika who was already acting very scummy.
2. Titus thinks Xay is scummy yet she's voting for pisskop.
3. A weak argument against pisskop from kthx is enough for a vote, yet she hasn't even voted xay at any point today (even though she's made several points to note his scumminess.) To me this looks like someone avoiding a wagon with a buddy on it, but making her opinions that she thinks he is scum known for when he flips scum (town cred.) If this is correct then scum could be xay, kthx, and titus in my eyes.

Vote: Titus

[Lucresia]

kthx, I see your frustration against pisskop as similar to your frustration with kcd earlier. You seem outraged that you aren't getting enough people to blindly follow you. I just see you pulling at little strings hoping to get a bite. I am not buying the pisskop wagon right now. His actions thusfar just seem a little newbish, but not scum.

This is also why I wish we'd all go back to the Xay wagon. I am more confident on day 1 about the xay wagon than I feel confident about the titus wagon. Yet, I don't want to waste my vote either if no one is really willing to lynch him today. I think we get more information from a xay lynch. it'll help us actually get a better read on pisskop while getting a read on kthx. If xay is townie, i'd bet on pisskop being scum and kthx as town. If xay turns up scum then I can see pisskop looking more town with kthx looking like scum. Whether Titus turns scum or town, I really am still going to find kthx scummy. Yet, I won't have too many other leads. I want our lynch to provide us with some good day 2 analysis.

Here's two scenarios I can see regarding kthx's alignment with a Titus lynch for either role flip:

1. if Titus flips scum, kthx looks scummy for avoiding the wagon so hard.
2. If Titus flips town, kthx still look scummy because he took the easy way out. He's already set himself up for it by pointing out how "fast" the wagon formed on her. However, with a looming deadline, and being close to lynch, he knows she would be lynched without his intervention. Thus he can keep his hands looking clean.

[Lucresia]

Mod & all: I will be on vacation tomorrow through sunday. I might be able to post during vacation but it really just depends on what's going on. I'd like to post now but really need to finish packing for the vacation and get to bed -- so you can count my leave as of now. So this is just a notice that I will have limited posting opportunities (or possibly none) this weekend.

[Lucresia]

Prod received. I'll be able to post later this afternoon or tonight