Mini 1556: Greetings Without Spain (GAME OVER FAREWELL)

[Titus]

I am totally here. I will read after lunch.

VOTE: unvote

[Titus]

Ok this was a shorter thread than I thought.

VOTE: Kcda

Looking for page 1 scum claims is suspect in and of themselves. Kcda claims scumslip and pushes everything but the slipper supposedly in the next few pages.

Xay also irks me. He has been jumping on every wagon with a pulse but Kcda.

D3x is more aggressive than I am used to.

Pisskop taking off then falling apart suggest scum influence somewhere but does not require it.

[Titus]

Ok I like Thorinth, due to syngery so far. Lean town there.

[Titus]

You were the second person to ask,

so I figured it deserved an answer.

scum found, gg

Here, you pushed Pisskop as scum. If you really felt it was a scumslip, that is the wagon you should be pushing.

[Titus]

He was scum there but then he recovered some town points with me later on.

Kthx got my attention since... page 4 was it?? ive posted a case on kthx and posted the townie point grab from PK

are you really reading thoroughly? cuz that really looks like a lazy skim to me there bub.

Role pms do not change. Either you oversold a belief as a scumslip or youdo not push scumslips. Either way its scummy.

I am reading thoroughly. Did I state anything factually incorrect? No. Otherwise, correct me.

A good chunk of this, in the rare event I am still alive, will be more useful in later days.


@Thom, I think kthx is town here.

[Titus]

Pisskop, ika and I have played together for awhile.

Kthx is town bc his meta and reckless disregard for his own survival. He did it here again by voting Pisskop rather than KCDA, especially knowing I will hold him to his poorly explaned slip.

[Titus]

Titus, is this really town to you?
What do you think

of

Aisa?
Any thoughts on ika's behavior?
Opinion of KCD?

bolded edit.

Aisa, I like her a little bit at the moment but it's a very weak townread. ika and I tend to scumread each other a lot and view the game in very opposite ways. Then again, I'm not a fan of her vote on you, so that's nullish.

ika tends to be much more of a gut player while I rely on formal logic. Totally opposite players, we are friends but we bicker a lot for that reason. When we come together, it's usually damning on a particular player but I can't remember the last time we agreed on anything.

KCDA, total scum. That should be clarified by my postings and why. If not, you seriously need to reread them. I don't really feel like banging my head against a brick wall but I will if required.

I do think that kthx is town.

Look at Xayz... he just said something that is blatantly false. A scumslip is not a weak reason to jump onto a wagon. If someone scumslips, that's where town should be voting. The correct response is to say it's not really a scumslip as Pisskop did.

In short, I think that kthx is town and totally reading the game wrong.

[Titus]

I don't like Pisskop as scum. Pisskop's wagon taking off and putting together suggests scum present somewhere on his wagon, not that he was scum. I don't see your slip at all. You're also misstating why I feel you are town. I don't feel you are town bc you are scummy but your lack of survivalistic intent.

I also don't quite understand your Tom read.

The last post gives me a little bit of the creeps, like you wanted to end up where I was feeling the game, and you were shocked when we didn't match.

I'm fine with either KCDA or Xay. Expect my vote on whichever is bigger ATM barring new information.

[Titus]

Kthx, can you go through premise by premise why Pisskop slipped? While I agree that Pisskop's reasons for his vote are no longer valid, it could be a plausible (but incorrect) belief that ika replaced out in order to townfirm the slot. I think that's the next thing to do. If you'd convince me that Pisskop slipped, then my vote would naturally go there. If I convince you that Pisskop didn't slip, we can likely move together in a manner that will cause us to lynch scum.

[Titus]

Wow... reading now. Glad to have this problem.

[Titus]

After catching up on 5-6 pages of walls from 2 days I missed..I think we have enough info to lead us into day 2. I don't know that xay is scum or not. What I do know is that his lynch will provide a lot of analysis tomorrow based on people leading the lynch. @ice -- posting about "old" stuff because that's as far up as I was caught up. What kind of townie gets on people for posting their thoughts on day 1? If xay is scum and you aren't on the vote list we will have found scum for day2. If xay is town, I'll have a bunch of leads tomorrow based on these people driving this lynch.

Vote: xay

This vote is unsettling due to the fact the reasoning could just as likely apply to Pisskop as well as Xay. It says a lot but does nothing.

I think we may be choosing between two scums here.

Thom's attack on me doesn't feel right though. He makes a big stink about how I am the only one arguing kthx town and implies for that reason I am whiteknighting him. He implies that if I am right, I must be scum. I'm thinking I might have judged his slot too quickly.

Checking votes but planning to vote Pisskop unless I'd be hammer. Then intent to hammer. Will move to Xay at deadline if needed though.

[Titus]

VOTE: Pisskop

[Titus]

Titus, where did the scumread on me come from?

I buy kthx's slip when you referred to Xay as a townie. Bleh. I'm fairly certain I am wrong on one of the two of you. My town read says you and provides a decent but not flawless slip.

[Titus]

:/ why did you vote me just now? Out of protest?

What points did kthnx make that you think are decent?

Out of protest? Just what would I be protesting?

I asked Kthx to explain what the slip was. He did in clear and concise terms. After today's flip, I'm going to go back and re-evaluate everyone based on where they were and what they did.


My notes have Xay at L-1. I also don't see where scum can't be genuine. When I'm scum, I'm the most genuine player in the game generally but for who we should lynch.

[Titus]

Ummm PrivateI, your post is wierd and awkward at th end. Generic hasn't even posted....

[Titus]

Xay scum reads me because I admitted I'm not 100% certain of a day 1 lynch.

Hrm.

The rest of the reads list is trash. He doesn't have a valid scum read on a single player. This is awful.

I've put a lot of stock in to people's wording calling themselves and others townies and such in the past but I don't think it works in this situation. It only really tracks if he's saying that we're lynching a townie when specifically only talking about Xay, as if he asked people why they're trying to lynching a townie when they vote him. If he "slipped" then he admitted that he's town and has information suggesting that Xay is town, which would only be possible if they were masons (ergo, looks more like a mason slip than a scum slip) which isn't possible.

It just looks more likely that he doesn't like either lynch.

Now I'm not saying you're wrong, I've got a slight scum read on piss myself, but I don't particularly agree that what you have found is a scum slip.

Ugh reading piss's posts just feels like he doesn't understand what is going on this game. It is really frustrating. Piss, you need to actually get reads on players and develop opinions and push a lynch. Xay I don't care about because he's already caught scum.

This post he's pushing for my lynch but he's wavering between me and pkop. Still considers if I flip town even though I'm "caught scum". Giving himself breathing space because he knows I'll flip town.

No. Some people just naturally think in the alternative. That doesn't make ICE scum or town. I'll generally post what should happen in the event I am wrong.

[Titus]

Kthx, I'm punting on Xay right now. I don't know whether it was town or faked. I don't intend to take a stance on reading people when I don't see the answer.

The plagarism on Pisskop also is much weaker than you make it out to be. Plagarism isn't a scumtell. It's a rallying cry. Now, if everything Pisskop said was previously said throughout the day, that's unacceptable but we all plagiarize in mafia.

[Titus]

That case sucks because it leaves out a lot. Those posts aren't back to back for me.

Between the two, I ask Kthx to put down the explanation on PK's slip because I didn't see it. Kthx did and I figured it was plausible but not airtight, so I shifted my vote. There's a whole 70 posts between here and there. I generally do read before I post, even if I am uncertain as to my opinions.

That's the poorest twisting I have seen in quite awhile Rhinox. Desperate for a mislynch? Or just totally ignore facts (which there's evidence of considering you called me a he)?

I also find it funny that you appear to chainsaw, with a total lack of voting, until Pisskop is damn near L-1 if not at it.

[Titus]

A speed wagon doesn't mean the target is town, it just raises suspicion that the target is town. Hence why I rarely do them (unless I am at the front).

[Titus]

Aisa: Same thing. What are your thoughts surrounding the whole hammer that wasn't a hammer incident?

Piss's intent, followed by the vote after barely an hour makes no sense. The reasoning he gave afterwards still makes no sense (297, "I was trying to make sure everyone knew it was coming"). Why'd he do that?
Maybe he really wanted to lynch Xay, then he realized that someone might've unvoted after he claimed intent and didn't want that to happen? Admittedly, that's a quite far-fetched theory. Anyway, I can't find a town motivation.
I'm not sure about Xay's reaction. My gut says it's genuine.

@Titus:

Can you go over the "Kthx explained the slip and

I figured it was plausible but not airtight

" part a bit more in detail?

Of course.

When Kthxbye posted about Pisskop's use of the word "townies" in his post, it implied knowledge that Xay was a townie. Considering Xay's play has been very bad to me, I don't forsee anyone reading him as a townie. Thus, when Pisskop posted, it was likely he knew that Xay was town.

It is however possible that Pisskop had a legit read of the slot, as everyone plays differently. I just find it farfetched.

[Titus]

Thom: I don’t get the “Titus is almost the only one vouching for townKthx therefore he is scum if Kthx is town”. What do you mean exactly when you say “it felt really weird?” Expand please.

Basically, Titus was one of the only people (along with d3x but im not sure if he was "defending" as such and so would need to check that) that was strongly saying kthx was town. It felt really weird because of the fact that it could have easily have been that Titus is mafia and kthx is town and as titus was the seemingly the only one to have defended him he would gain "towncred" for being against the town wagon in this hypothetical scenario day 2 once kthx had flipped, and the fact she is now defending a high lynch target Xay also makes me wary.

But did Titus ever defend Xay? What she said in the last couple days about him: "My notes have Xay at L-1. I also don't see where scum can't be genuine. When I'm scum, I'm the most genuine player in the game generally but for who we should lynch." "I'm punting on Xay right now. I don't know whether it was town or faked. I don't intend to take a stance on reading people when I don't see the answer."
I understand your reasoning, but it's a bit too Wifom for my taste. She could very well be genuine, so I wouldn't trust this as much as you seem to be doing right now.

This is pretty much it.

Xay has always been a scumread of mine. I doubt the sudden clearing of him due to the "tell".

[Titus]

Rhinox

1) It is MY counterargument for that being a slip. I don't give two rats asses about majority. I care about logically sound.

Of course, you are using the wrong post to interpret my arguments. Post 197 is the slip.

[Titus]

1) I don't get to apply my own logic and make up my own arguments. Yo hav got to be kiddin me.

Pisskop's counterargument is shit, but I do apply logic to make sure if I m right. There can be reasons for a post beyond that of what the defender claims. I am not going to lynch someone fot a lip unless that us the only posssibility.

Th fact you don't want me to argue and use logic suggests your attack on me is a chainsaw of Pisskop.

[Titus]

Go for the better player or you are his buddy.

Pisskop, you obviously weren't talking about a hypo in 197. I naturally don't like slip argumenrs. I would hav brushed off Kthx argument if I could find my own reason for it not to be a slip.

Rhinox, how do you know Xay's a mislynch? He semms pretty scummy to me.

You never were willing to settle on Pisskop. Be real.

[Titus]

197, is not referring to Xay/the other player as if he was assuming they were townies. It implies knowledge.

That sentence should be written differently. For instance, I wouldn't know why two scum would gather to push town!Xay and me.

Rhinox, I don't scumflail. :-p Read my latest scumgames. Try again. Chainsaw, it's inherently obvious. I just call out patterns, you're getting all defensive and doubling down on this because you need me dead, yesterday.

I'm not discussing theory of what happened in the past. That's the past. I have my own linguistic interpretation. I don't care about the majority's interpretation. I haven't and I never will.


Piss's scumread makes sense for a) serial killer who sees me as scum and tries to link Town!ice to scum!Titus b) scum!kop trying to drum up support for my wagon from those who feel Ice!scum is unlynchable c) scum!kop putting out a ridiculous theory to appear town. For instance, his big point is that ika never mentioned Ice. That's non-sense. d) create more cover your ass caess for scum!Rhinox and ???Piskop who is in survival mode. D is my favorite.

Piss's whole theory isn't designed to be accurate, it's designed to get town!Titus lynched.

Whatever, I always get lynched as town, it's much easier to scumhunt when I can post bullshit and have 3 people lapping it up rather than post the truth and get chainsawed six ways from Sunday. Seriously, no one thinks that Rhinox's "attack" on me and on the evidence isn't to save obvscum!kop. The freaking evidence is just right there. My god.

[Titus]

Aisa, yeah I can. People who magically self-clear themselves suck. Period.

Pisskop clears himself by dodging the substance of the slip. Hypothetical doesn't make extra knowledge of alignment a slip.
Xay's attempt to self-clear via hammer also sicks.
Scum vouch for their buddies as townies.

Either way, Pisskop's strong implication that Xay is town is not warranted and reeks of scum.
Xay's clear sucks.

I can believe both. Is it likely they are both scum? In my opinion yes, but I die holding unpopular opinions, so be it. That's my town game.

[Titus]

Rhinox, quit twisting. Post 383 doesn't say what you are saying.

Either 383 is a slip hat Xay is town or it is a hard defense of his buddy.

Xay's self-clear is independently scummy.

I hate self clears.

How can you not break apart and combine e vents in a logical manner if you are playing logically.


Claiming cuz deadline... Vanilla Scumfinder. Rhinox, Xay, Pisskop. Goodnight.

[Titus]

Let's see here, the people pushing I'm obviously scum are fucking brain dead. When I'm scum I'm not obv scum ever. The explaination is utter self-vouching and shit. I'll explain point for point tomorrow but it basically says that I don't cow tow to the majority I must be scum. Well fuck it. The only person who cowtows to the majority, Scum!Titus.

Pisskop has been implying Xay Town the entire fucking time. I really don't get how fucking blind this group is but what the fuck...

[Titus]

Seriously, this game would be my fucking bitch if I was scum. I clean the tables as scum.

[Titus]

Oh yeah totes drunk at the moment.

[Titus]

Vote: Xayzeck

ika got my last rvs.

hmm? I'm no longer "!!RAGING!!" at ika.

Its fine Xay. :/ I think ts just overaggression.

Apparently they haven't read my meta. Im rather derpy, yea

^^

nice overanalyzing. IGMEOY

^^

My overall reaction to the above quote. Translated to me sounds like Wifom.

---

Okay, so I recognize that explaining a prior vote in RVS is unusual. I was trying to make a nod to ika while poking a Xay. As you can see, we're like superbffs.

So you're TownReading everyone pointing at you? Why do you have nothing to bring to the discussion?

As far as reads, I don't think I have much to go off. :/

VOTE: Aisa
Comment.

This would be the most standout thing around. A self-vote in the grey area between RVS and early game. I would say that rather then expecting us to comment upon her, she is say 'comment' as in 'here is a comment'.

If I had to pick out a scum from everyone who commented upon my interactions I would pick Xay; for his defense for me. Scum Xay could be pretending to avoid a quickhammer as a way to gain towncredit early.

"X did Y to gain towncred" is applicable to a lot things. Is this outside of Xay's normal town meta?

We haven't been in too many games together. But as scum I think I would let the town know I disagreed with a wagon like this. Its easy cred when it flips, and if it doesn't then I can still say I was objective throughout it.

Xay doesn't seem prone to that kind of thinking, but I've never officially met Scum Xay.

gah. again.

vote: ika

-on Xay

First, only 17 posts. of a current 262.

Reflexive unvote on a wagon in 38. It was L-3, however he claims he though it was L-1 as per 9 player newbie games.

This

Also, pkop and I will probably buddy quite a bit this game, because we chose to join together. It's up to you to decide if it's alignment indicative for this game

is a standout statement, however imo it reflects better with the genuineness of his personality. I think him stating we will be buddying up is worse than him telling you that you'll have to deal with it, but that's just me.

if I do actually buddy him a lot and he flips scum I don't get mislynched.

:/ This is an upsetting sentiment.

in 160 there are two things that upset me.
He sheeps without a reason and proclaims he is town. Both are slightly scummy in my eyes.

217 was an admission of defeat. Either as a town giving up or scum.

Overall I can see scum motivation in it, and its hard to ignore the combined cases of posts like 205 and 212.

I'm claiming intent.

#9 Over explained RVS
#15 says he's raging at ika, no content about ika... hell it's post 15. ika's a troll but dam
#40 implies Xay is town because he's talking to Xay if town
#68-69 explains he and Xay are like super bffs.
#69 Xay suddenly can be scum.
#80 highlights he's never met Scum Xay, fenceshitting on Xay
#117 pointless vote on us, naked so he can fill in reasons
#264 Totally claiming intent... doesn't want to vote Xay, rather swing at Titus

Because I got the game right late. I usually do. Day 1 or 2 I suck as town.

That's the best you are getting till Monday cuz drunk.

[Titus]

#15 Don't know. Don't think I was here during the downtime.
#68 it doesn't appear as a joke to me at all.
#69 sudden switch here according to you makes no sense
#80 really.. then he's got no reason for buddying Xay or his sudden flip if they don;t
#115 oh come on... gimme a break ika's a troll totally. He doesn't think on logical wavelength but gut. If I had that shit, lynch me in a heartbeat but anyone who knows ika knows that's how he rolls as town.
#264, he's attacking his buddying target/scum buddy cuz forced. He'd rather tunnel me/ika.

[Titus]

#15 nope 15 ain't downtime. Downtime was near March 1st if memory serves and verification serves me right

[Titus]

Will try to respond tonight but I may have to vla. Work picked up sooner than expected. Will be done by this weekend. Only night posts from me.