Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[eektor]

Hello! Ooh I got tagged let me pass it on.

VOTE: Metalcyanide

[eektor]

VOTE: Monkeyman

This is a reaction test.

I would join you but I decided not to lynch monkeyman in this game.

[eektor]

UNVOTE: Aeronaut
VOTE: InsidiousLemons

This is not an RVS vote.

Why do you think this is not an RVS vote?

[eektor]

VOTE: mykonian for not remembering toolenduso. HOW COULD YOU?

@Aquanim and pisskop Why is this scummy to you?

[eektor]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

[eektor]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

counterclaim one shot pre-game cop. TheDudeisscum.

vote thedude

on a more serious note, I don't like eektor.

So you think I'm scummy but instead of voting for me, you chose to continue with an RVS vote?

[eektor]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

What's the point of unvoting? Same to you Taly and metalcyanide.

Because metal was my RVS vote and people were starting to form a wagon on him for reasons I don't agree with.

[eektor]

@Aeronaut because, while I accept you may not have reason to vote anyone else, I wanted to know if you HAD reason to vote eek. If there are reasons for a vote I like to know them in case it's enough to sway me to jump on the wagon. It's fine if you don't have a read, I just wanted to see if you did.

@IL I'm curious to know what your reasons you have on me before you latch on to someone else's opinion. I'm also wondering why you are pushing hard the metal wagon and yet now trying to find a reason to jump off?

[eektor]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

Nope. but are you telling me that you know he's town?

That's a pretty big misrep and no I don't think he's town. So why did you take your vote off him, if you know he's scum?

[eektor]

Well so far I'm leaning town on aquanim and metal.

Insidious Lemon, I'm not sure what to think. At first I thought he was town, but I didn't like the whole pushing hard on metal while trying to find an excuse to jump off the wagon. Then his exchange with metal afterwards seemed a bit fake.

Leaning scum on mykonian. I don't like the whole I think you're scummy but I will continue the RVS. Also, the I'm keeping my vote on someone who I think is town.

Leaning scum on oddmusic. I think his vote on metal was a bit opportunistic and done without much commitment to it. I don't like how nobody is even mentioning him.

VOTE: oddmusic

[eektor]

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

[eektor]

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a joke. When I asked to make sure his vote was RVS, he said no. I take that as he had a reason to vote for mykonian. And I didn't put him on my reads because I'm still figuring him out.

Now I don't see how you can think my actions with him are scum motivated. Wouldn't scum who knew he had to be joking just let it slide rather than confront him to make sure he was actually doing an RVS instead of a real vote? Also, so your motivation to vote me had nothing to do with my reads and vote on oddmusic and solely on my interaction with the dude?

[eektor]

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a joke. When I asked to make sure his vote was RVS, he said no. I take that as he had a reason to vote for mykonian. And I didn't put him on my reads because I'm still figuring him out.

But you knew that a pre-game cop wasn't normal...so I'm not understanding how you thought he was being serious.

Now I don't see how you can think my actions with him are scum motivated.

Not scum motivated, but what awkward scum would do.

Wouldn't scum who knew he had to be joking just let it slide rather than confront him to make sure he was actually doing an RVS instead of a real vote?

How would scum know if he was joking? They don't know town roles. Your actions don't align with a townie who genuinely believed TDA wasn't joking. If I thought someone had a potential cop guilty on someone, I would make sure he made that clear right away.

Also, so your motivation to vote me had nothing to do with my reads and vote on oddmusic and solely on my interaction with the dude?

Correct.

I don't really want to vote Aquanim today. I'm mostly confused about why RC is voting him. If it's for his actions surrounding the odd wagon, I don't think that's a good way to find scum considering odd hasn't flipped.

I'm not talking about his claim, i'm talking about his vote. Are you telling me you have never seen people say random things or joke around and then put a serious vote in the same post? Is this something he doesn't do? Do you have experience playing with him?

And scum wouldn't know roles but they should know alignment.

[eektor]

@eektor
Ok that makes more sense. But then what did you base TDA's apparent confirmation of mykonian as scum on?

The "know" I said was sarcastic.

Going to try to get back into the game and get some reads out.

[eektor]

RC - I think the push she did on Aquanim was bad. Some of the points did not make sense. After completing a game with her when she was an IC, this push seems normal play for her. I did like how she was the first to point out that Aquanim's defending oddmusic. She is possibly town for now.

Aquanim - Aquanim's defense of oddmusic makes him look like a good scum buddy for oddmusic. When the wagon started building on oddmusic, he tried to start a counterwagon on a lurker slot. Then when that fell apart he changed his vote to me which was the biggest counterwagon at that time.

Taly - I really don't like his posts. He seems to care more about what others think of him than trying to figure this game out. His posts looks scummy to me but I'm trying to figure out whether he is a newb townie or a newb scummy, because I checked his games and he has no completed games on site.

Elyse - I'm leaning town. She's engaging most players, trying to find motivations.

[eektor]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

Nope. but are you telling me that you know he's town?

That's a pretty big misrep and no I don't think he's town. So why did you take your vote off him, if you know he's scum?

How did I mis-rep you? I asked you a question.
Why did you assume that my claim was bs? I mean it was, but why did you assume that.

Because I never heard of a pre-game cop and if you were I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to out themselves first post. As for the misrep, it was a loaded question and it was what you were implying.

[eektor]

Some of the points did not make sense.

This is why I don't bother explaining my reads; people frequently say that my points don't make sense, not because they don't make sense but either because they don't understand them or I suck at putting it into words.

There's a difference, and discrediting my reads in general because of one game where I actually did better than the town in general besides my one read on Elbirn is not justified.

It bears noting that my push in Aqua is muddled because my read on Aqua is muddled, and while #172 remains total garbage (talking to someone as if they're confirmed town while professing a null read, trying to discredit the wagon by casting me as scum)

RC is all this in this post directed to me? In what way did I discredit your reads?

[eektor]

@Mod I'll be V/LA this weekend. I'll be able to get caught up on Monday.

[eektor]

Like I've said before, this is just a hunch - but something tells me Mykonian and Elyse are a possible scum team - they've been working and defending one another and they're both most active on my wagon. (I don't see Tools logic,

eektor should be lynched for his lack of help assuming he doesn't even know why he voted for me other than being a sheep on a wagon

, and assuming RC will revote for Odd again - that's all of everyone who thinks I'm really scum. Which, by he way, is not even half the people against me right now.)

@Taly - Was going to ask you who you think are scum on your wagon, but you answered it here. Here's a question, do you really think the two biggest pushers for your lynch would be scum? That is pretty risky strategy for day one. Also, are you saying that I am voting for you and sheeped on your wagon? As far as I'm concerned my vote has been on oddmusic.

[eektor]

Well, this game got a whole lot interesting. pisskop is definitely town and unfortunately oddmusic was town. I am thinking Taly is town and even though I have doubts I don't think he is a good lynch for day one. I have my suspicions on mykonian, Insidious Lemon and Aquamin. I need to reread and then I'll decide where to vote.

@Metal Annie is RC.

[eektor]

that's curious eektor.

5 posts ago you really disliked taly's posting. And your aqua read was solely based on him being a buddy of odd.

you seem confused.

If you were actually read what I said, I was debating from newb town or newb scum. Either way I have no intention of trying to lynch a possible town power role which makes me wonder why are you still pushing for his lynch.

As for aqua, scum can buddy up a town to make them look more town when they flip town. His attitude after the flip, was I was right about odd, and then proceeds to question people's reads on odd afterwards makes me see that coming more from scum than town. Also, I don't like him pointing out Taly's soft claim.

[eektor]

That is pretty risky strategy for day one.

What makes you think this?

Well, Pisskop is town.

Eelyse is still town.

Well, according to Taly, he thinks two scum is pushing hard to lynch him as a town pr. If Taly flips town, those two people should be getting a whole lot of scrutiny, something scum wouldn't want.

[eektor]

hmm. Well, it's probably sensible to do this specifically.

I'm vague in my wordings, that's half laziness, that's half seeing who's thinking along similar lines. Twice now Taly has assumed something was about him when that didn't make any sense. Last example is when I comment on the daykill (that's two meh reads gone or something like that). Taly takes that as meaning him, while I was thinking about the shooter (since dayvigs are likely town) and the shot player. It's just a mindset, the expectation that I should be talking about him.

Another thing is his explanation who should be dangerous to me. His view of lemon as clearly on my side is only because lemon is voting him. It doesn't enter his thoughts that someone might be worried about people buddying. He's just looking at who votes him and who doesn't.

It's just the entire mindset. Not just defensiveness, but a selfcentered look at the game.

So are you saying because Taly's point of view is very seflcentered, that makes him scum?

[eektor]

please show that, eek.

please show what? that Taly is scum reading elyse and myko?

[eektor]

But, Taly, given the new circumstance, could you please describe any reads that are different and why? Nothing elaborate, but enough that I could walk through the read.

Townies

(I like your posts, or at least the gut feeling I get from you... You're still on my radar.)

Aquanim:

Moderate-Strong Read

RC:

Slight-Moderate Read

TDA:

Slight Read

eektor:

Very Slight Read

pisskop:

Slight Read/*

Can be on

Nulls/Neutrals

list

Neutrals

(AKA - You're on my radar.)

Boonskies:

Moderate Read/*

Can be on

Slight Scum List

InsidiousLemons:

Slight-Moderate Read/*

Can be on

Very Slight Scum List

toolenduso:

Slight-Moderate Read

Metalcyanide:

Very Slight Read/*

Can be on

Slight Town List

Scummies

(I'm onto you right now. )

mykonian:

Slight-Moderate Read

Elyse:

Slight Read

This post shows his scum reads of myko and Elyse

[eektor]

Thats a list of 5 scumreads

I see only 4 in there, but the most important part is the scummies (i'm onto you) section which seems to be his top 2.

[eektor]

So are you saying because Taly's point of view is very seflcentered, that makes him scum?

yes, that's a general theory thing. Town would be more preoccupied with finding out about others, scum about protecting their place in the game.

And the posts on the last couple of pages are hardly the first time you can notice this, take for example his unvote of you somewhere on page 3.

No, I agree with you on the self centeredness. I mean he went from eektor needs to be lynched and then when I told him I wasn't voting for him, he dropped that and now is putting me as a very slight town read. His two top scum reads are the people who I think is pushing his lynch the hardest. I'm just not sure whether that is scummy as I did that on my first game where anyone voting for me I had a scum read because I was town (which I was).

[eektor]

So Eektor, Pisskop, Boonskiies & Toolenduso with just left a week left to go. Who do each of you feel like you will end up voting for? Also, why? I'm not looking for you guys to vote now just looking to see where your heads are at.

Right now, I think I'm interested in an Insidious Lemon lynch.

[eektor]

Sorry guys, yesterday was a long day for me. I'll be catching up and posting later today.

[eektor]

@Mod: Can we have an updated vote count?

I had to go back 5 pages but I believe its at 4 votes for Taly and 4 for Metal.

Is it just me or is Boon just following everything that RC says and does? It makes me wonder if he is scum trying to latch onto an aggressive townie.

@Boon What makes you so sure RC is town or is right in his reads?

@everyone Have you seen a town roleblocker in a normal game before? From my personal experience (albeit limited) all the roleblockers I've seen where mafia.

@Elyse and mykonian If Taly flipped town, do you think there is a scum on his wagon? Who is a possible scum buddy for Taly if he is scum?

@RC Do you think pisskop is scum?

[eektor]

@metal Who do you think is the 3 scum on your team?

[eektor]

@metal Who do you think is the 3 scum on your team?

RC, Boon, Taly

You don't think aquanim is scum?

[eektor]

Not lurky, Pisskop.

Your post count is massive but you've contributed nothing to town, asked a bunch of odd things and never followed up, and a day 1 shot coming from your apparent role, especially without a claim, looks like a bid for towncred as opposed to something that comes from a town mindset.

I think you're more likely SK with a single day kill than anything, most likely also getting single shot bulletproof but not investigative immunity which would explain why you'd shoot D1; it risks the Mafia shot, which is something that you'd be pretty reasonably OK with, but it avoids getting investigatives on you.

This would coincide fairly well with Taly being a role blocker of either faction, which usually only pops up in PR heavy setups meaning we're looking at a 3 scum game with PRs on both sides, which makes a SK with both bulletproof and a day shot seem fairly reasonable.

Are you saying this could be a 3 scum game + 1 SK?

[eektor]

@Taly

@eektor
Yes I think there would be scum on the Taly wagon if he flipped town. And if he flipped scum. Totally town driven wagons are rare and I would have to look at the wagon after to see who it is. I was debating that Aquanim could be Taly's scumbuddy but I don't think so anymore. I think it's either A) Aquanim is town and genuinely reads Taly as town - Taly latches on to anyone who reads him as town and uses that to form a townread on them too or B) Aquanim is white-knighting Taly and making himself look better after his eventual townflip. Taly seems too buddy-buddy with Aquanim for them to be scumbuddies and I would expect him to be a little more reluctant in interacting with a buddy. Wow I just said buddy a lot.

So, you're saying that the only way you see Aquanim as scum is if Taly is town?

[eektor]

I indeed don't see why a mafia or scum SK would have to make a public kill. If pisskop is not town it will become obvious later. Not much point in lynching him today, even if him being anti-town is more plausible than I think it is.

I feel pretty good about at least one of these wagons being on scum on general principles.

Why would one of them have to be scum?

[eektor]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

I will answer this if you can tell me what is your reasoning for asking the set of questions about if you flipped scum.

[eektor]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

If you flipped town, I would think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum and I'll be leaning towards mykonian. Another one would probably be Insidious Lemons and the 3rd is a toss up. About your prior claims and cases, I don't agree with both Elyse or mykonian as being scum buddies but now I see you are switching to mykonian and tools. I'm not sure about tools, but I could probably check him for a possible 3rd mafia. Now, how much help have you been to town. I'll give you one thing, your flip can provide us a lot of information about multiple players, but if you are a town power role that got lynched in the first day without using your powers ... I think its just a waste of a town power role.

If you flip scum, your reads won't be invalid but useful to find your buddies. If you flipped scum, I think Aquanim and Boons could be your buddies.

[eektor]

@Elyse Why vote metal now?

VOTE: InsidiousLemons

[eektor]

now, to business, can we lynch eektor or are you all really hellbent on defaulting on metal now the direct competitor is gone?

So, you're saying you don't think there was any scum on Taly's wagon?

[eektor]

On Eek

9 is scummy
23 is town
57 is too cautious for my taste
97 is associations Metal/IL. Also Id wager town
278 is meh reads
373 RC and Eek. Would scumeek ignore RC?
539 is town
664 is something I agree with


Eek reads as townier than many But I would like an update on this:

If you flipped town, I would think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum and I'll be leaning towards mykonian. Another one would probably be Insidious Lemons and the 3rd is a toss up. About your prior claims and cases, I don't agree with both Elyse or mykonian as being scum buddies but now I see you are switching to mykonian and tools. I'm not sure about tools, but I could probably check him for a possible 3rd mafia. Now, how much help have you been to town. I'll give you one thing, your flip can provide us a lot of information about multiple players, but if you are a town power role that got lynched in the first day without using your powers ... I think its just a waste of a town power role.

If you flip scum, your reads won't be invalid but useful to find your buddies. If you flipped scum, I think Aquanim and Boons could be your buddies.

I still think there is at least one (probably 2) on Taly's wagon. I think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum, but I can't really decide which one is more scummy. Elyse quickly votes for metal saying its the most informative lynch. I really think we should be focusing on finding scum on Taly's wagon instead of going for the "most informative" lynch. Then mykonian also doesn't pay attention to the people on Taly's wagon and tries to find interest in getting me lynched. It took him a while to vote for me, though.

The reason why I voted for IL is he has been shady all game I think and I think his vote on Taly was pretty low key and he did mention he wasn't sure that Taly was scum, but once Taly claimed he kept his vote on Taly like the claim made him want to keep his vote on Taly.

Other thoughts, I think RC is town, as well as pisskop. I'm starting to think Aquanim is town too. I'm wondering if Boon could be scum.

[eektor]

EBWOP: That should read "from #898 onward".

@eektor

: Of all the players on the Taly wagon you haven't mentioned toolenduso. Why?

because I don't find him that scummy. I think we have a better shot at finding scum between the 3 I mentioned.

[eektor]

This game is all sorts of messed up. Town will be minus 4 (at least) by D2 if we don't figure somthing out.

RC your offer to me, was dumb but does say you really don't think I'm scum. Otherwise why allow me to live and then depend on me to vote for someone else you believe to be scum?

I think Pisskop is town, also take your shot tonight.

Is anyone interested in pursuing one of the following: Boon, IL, or The Dude.

I hate to push a luker on D1 but I think we can all agree that we can't agree on who to lynch with who is participating and I think there is a really good chance of hitting scum with one of these 3 and others have expressed that as well.

I would like to push and will vote for Boon. He's done nothing and has only sheeped RC.
UNVOTE: Radiant Cowbells - this isn't going anywhere and if Boon flips scum it might connect the dots on RC being scum.
VOTE: Boonskiies

IL already has two votes, why did you vote for Boon and not join the IL wagon?

[eektor]

@eektor, pisskop, mykonian

: Why are you or would you support an InsidiousLemons lynch? Remembering that the reason he has not been active for the past week or so is presumably because he is V/LA and in hospital, what about his play

before that point

do you find scummy, and why did you not find it scummy and push it at the time?

I already mentioned why I find him scummy. I did find him scummy before, but everyone was interested in either a Metal or Taly lynch. Although the Taly flip makes him look more scummy to me now, which is why I'm voting him now.

[eektor]

I'm liking Aquanim a fair bit more now.
UNVOTE: Aquanim
Not loving eektor, he's been posting fairly frequently but briefly and without much substance, mostly just agreeing with other people. He hasn't been doing much hunting.
Don't know how I feel about Taly. I think I like him, for the most part.
I don't like Metal, at least not much. A meaningless RVS vote and an immediate retraction with an apology is fishy, to say the least. It eliminates the possibility of a reaction test and, while it could just be chalked up to laziness, apathy is at best a null tell. Seems scummy to me.
VOTE: Metalcyanide

This is L-1.

IL Votes Metal and in his mind pushed him to L-1. He said before it wasn't a reaction but he actually thought metal was at L-1.

Your RVS vote is still on Eek and Metal is at L-3, by my count. Unless you have adequate reason to keep your vote on eek I'd suggest putting it somewhere more valuable instead of just FOS'ing Metal with an RVS vote on the table.

Then why is your vote still on eek? You've made no argument or comment for or against him.

@Aeronaut because, while I accept you may not have reason to vote anyone else, I wanted to know if you HAD reason to vote eek. If there are reasons for a vote I like to know them in case it's enough to sway me to jump on the wagon. It's fine if you don't have a read, I just wanted to see if you did.

This sequence of posts I find scummy. He went from trying to push people to vote for Metal, then as if realizing the lynch wasn't going to go through, looking for another wagon to hop on.

VOTE: oddmusic
I meant to do that before at the end of my analysis post. Oddmusic is probable scum IMO.

Votes oddmusic when the wagon was forming.

Phew. That took longer than expected. I'm pretty sure I've adequately collected my thoughts here, and I've decided I'm happy with a Taly lynch today. Even I was unsure of my exact feelings on everyone until this post forced me to consider every player individually, and I've come to the conclusion that Taly is at the top of my scum list.
VOTE: Taly

He gives a read list in this post and then convinces himself that Taly is scum and votes for him. This was also when Taly's wagon was gaining momentum.

^RC made the point before about stream of conciousness posts generally coming from town, which I agree with for the most part, and 369 is another example of one of these types of posts. I'm not entirely convinced Taly isn't scum but he's certainly gained points with me.

I don't really like how Taly is needlessly insisting over and over again that he is town. It kind of looks like overcautious scum. Also, a vague PR claim after having been at L-2 for a fair while is a bit odd. However, I'll admit I have been skimming a bit, sorry for the lack of posts recently, I've been super busy, I'll try to catch up and post some more soon.

This is a lot to digest. I think I want to wait and see if this vig shot is in fact real before doing anything drastic. Vote stays on Taly for now, I don't really get why tool unvoted especially now that RC has stopped voting him as well but... god damn this is a lot to digest. I still don't like Taly though.

These three posts I find is a progression of his read on Taly while keeping his vote on Taly. What I don't like here, is he admittedly was skimming saw the PR claim and kept his vote on Taly. In fact it seems like his scum read of Taly was strengthened by the PR claim. I think town would be more cautious especially if they were just skimming. You don't want to accidentally lynch a town PR.

So basically his eagerness to jump on wagons that are gaining momentum and keeping his vote on Taly when Taly soft claimed as well as when Taly outed his role, is what I find scummy.

[eektor]

...
The reason why I voted for IL is he has been shady all game I think and I think his vote on Taly was pretty low key and he did mention he wasn't sure that Taly was scum, but once Taly claimed he kept his vote on Taly like the claim made him want to keep his vote on Taly.

Can you elaborate on "IL has been shady all game"? There are bits and pieces in your ISO (something about how he went after Metalcyanide in 146, for instance) but I'd like to see a more detailed case, based on what you're thinking from your current perspective.

Also, you appear to think Mykonian is reasonably likely to be scum as well; why are you pushing for an InsidiousLemons lynch intead of Mykonian? If it's just "IL more likely to flip scum", what distinguishes the two?

As for mykonian, I don't know. I think its a toss up between either mykonian or Elyse being scum because both of them pushed hard on a Taly lynch after he claimed. I think Insidious Lemons is the best chance to catch a scum though.

[eektor]

Is it just me or is Boon just following everything that RC says and does? It makes me wonder if he is scum trying to latch onto an aggressive townie.

Why do you think RC is town?

@Boon What makes you so sure RC is town or is right in his reads?

Oh, so you don't think RC is town.

RC's playstyle is similar to what I've seen when he was town in the last game. Also, I don't know why scum would create a counterwagon on metal when Taly was up for being lynched and when Taly claimed to be a PR.

I do think RC is town, but I was asking Boons to see why he thinks RC is town and really why he was sheeping RC. Just because I think RC is town, doesn't mean I agree with her reads and will sheep her votes.

[eektor]

I believe the VC is 4 and 4 on metal and IL. If necessary I will move my vote to metal.

@Metal I don't understand why you aren't voting for IL. It is down to your lynch or IL and you think IL is more town than you are?

@Elyse You might be right between the two of them being scum buddies. If they are both scum, I wonder if it is IL that has a better power.

[eektor]

@Mod Is that the right VC. I thought pisskop and TDA were voting IL.

[eektor]

So uh we need someone besides mykonian to switch to metal.

Otherwise Aqua and I (or metal lol he's not voting IL) have to switch to IL to avoid a NL.

Is anyone that is not voting for metal but will on?

I'm switching my vote in a few minutes to metal unless I see him vote for IL.

I don't trust you metal when you aren't voting anyone in the two main wagons with less than an hour to go.

[eektor]

If there is one scum between metal and IL, I think it's IL. Putting my vote on him until he proves me otherwise.

VOTE: InsidiousLemons

[eektor]

Btw, IL being absent for health reasons and if he was scum could be why the metal lynch didn't happen and scum not wanting to lynch IL.

[eektor]

Alright.

My target is Mykonian.

Keep in mind that chances of a RB on scum side are quite low.

Good luck.

Didn't notice this before. Anybody who has experience with RC, is RC the kind of player who would announce his investigation target just to mess with scum, then investigate somebody else during the night?

From my last game with RC, she likes to manipulate people's actions with her words. So, even if she said who she was going to investigate, I wouldn't be surprised if she checked someone else.

[eektor]

@pisskop I don't like how a lot of people are forcing you to kill whoever they decide. I think it would be best if people just give you a suggestion on who to shoot and then you decide on your own what to do.

[eektor]

@pisskop I don't like how a lot of people are forcing you to kill whoever they decide. I think it would be best if people just give you a suggestion on who to shoot and then you decide on your own what to do.

Is this in response to anything particular?
. Also I'd like your take on IL's catchup.

Nothing that you asked me, but in relation to tool's post 1334 and a few people mentioned this the last day too.

[eektor]

As for IL

Speculation on such things isnt going to yield fruit.

We need suspects. Not what-ifs.

I still like boon, hasn't said anything and he sheeped RC

Why are either of these at all reasons to like boon?

This is just filler, he took one post and decide to reply to it. He didn't take the time to see the context of the post in reference to metal voting for boon and pushing for a boon's lynch. Nothing town here, more like lazy scum trying to appear to be scumhunting.

Spoiler:

Speculation on such things isnt going to yield fruit.

We need suspects. Not what-ifs.

I still like boon, hasn't said anything and he sheeped RC

Why are either of these at all reasons to like boon?

And also, IL, you've caught up? What are your thoughts? Id still like to lynch you.

WTF?! LOL, and he's voting me?

VOTE: Metal

Blatant, obvious contradicion? I must be missing something here.

Granted, I understand he probably means he still likes the idea of lynching me.

Boon, you are the laziest scum I've ever seen. You skip the damn post which was 2 posts after that one where I say I want you lynched. If you flip town I'm going to be pissed and fucking recommend you be banned for playing against your win condition, if you are scum your damn teammates should be voting your weak ass for the same reason. Everyone vote this idiot please or Pisskop just shoot the fucker.

This post sums up my feelings pretty nicely, if a bit angrily.
Also I quite dislike this exchange from Boon's end:

This is Obv TownBoon. Just saying. I'm super active as scum.

And you couldn't decide as scum to lurk, do nothing useful, and fake your "obvious town" meta because...

that's no fun...

Yeah, I'm usually super active. I have different levels of activities. I replaced into this game, remember that. I would have probably been really active if I started in the beginning. There's also games where I don't post as much. I just haven't figured out how to insert myself. When I do, you'll know. When I legitimately gain a scum read, i'll start to epic tunnel.

Then the push on Boon is basically a policy lynch. It's a safe and easy read. He doesn't give any other reads either.

Nothing in his posts today has changed my mind on him, which is why my vote is still on him.

[eektor]

IL, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you get better soon.

[eektor]

UNVOTE:

I don't think me tunneling IL is helping this game. Hopefully, IL's replacement is more active.

I don't think the push on Boon is a good one. To me lynching him would be a policy lynch and I don't think his flip would give us any useful information.

I believe pisskop and Aquanim are town and I'm leaning town on Metal.

TDA is in a similar spot to Boon, in that he hasn't been that active and his flip wouldn't give much information.

I'll be looking more into Elyse, mykonian and tools. Moreso Elyse and mykonian as I feel their flip would give the most information.

[eektor]

I never said we didn't agree on these things. I'm just kinda annoyed the conversation has come to stand still and was hoping for something new, sorry

It really makes more sense for you to try to work with me than to try to alienate me.

Aqua, you know I'm an alt. How come you haven't mentioned it in the thread?

It didn't seem relevant. I'd almost entirely forgotten finding out, for that matter. I don't know who you're an alt of.

You don't think that people would read me differently depending on what they perceive my experience to be?

If you thought being an alt was important, why didn't you mention it earlier? Who is your main?

[eektor]

@metal Besides boon, who else do you see as possible scum?

@Aqua Why do you think metal is scum? Also, since you think he is scum, why would scum metal not want to vote for IL even when he was in danger of getting lynched and also only voting for IL when pressured to?

@pisskop What are your thoughts so far? Who do you think is scum?

I'm getting worried that Elyse could be scum. I'm pretty sure tool is town just because this is the 2nd day he's voted me and trying to get a mislynch on me and isn't getting any support. As scum I would think his scum buddies would help him out.

What's interesting to note is at Day 1, we were deadlocked between lynching metal and IL. Day 2, metal's wagon is going strong and the IL wagon fell apart. Which makes me wonder if this metal wagon is being pushed by scum.

[eektor]

Oi...am I the only one who sees Tool as scummy? Sorry tooley...

What makes you think tools is scum?

[eektor]

@Aqua Why do you think metal is scum?

None of my reasons from #898 have changed. As far as today goes, Metal's anger at Boonskiies and TheDudeAbides feels... overdone. I might write this up properly again later, not doing it for now.

Also, since you think he is scum, why would scum metal not want to vote for IL even when he was in danger of getting lynched and also only voting for IL when pressured to?

I'm not sure. Maybe IL (well, Bellaphant now) is scum as well. There's no good reason why a town Metal would not have voted for InsidiousLemons (or Taly) much earlier than he did.

I'm pretty sure tool is town just because this is the 2nd day he's voted me and trying to get a mislynch on me and isn't getting any support. As scum I would think his scum buddies would help him out.

This is very, very untrue. If Tool is scum he would quite cheerfully try and fail to push a wagon with no help from his buddies - it makes him look like he's doing something, without having to take responsibility for any flips. This does not make Tool scum either, fwiw.

What's interesting to note is at Day 1, we were deadlocked between lynching metal and IL. Day 2, metal's wagon is going strong and the IL wagon fell apart. Which makes me wonder if this metal wagon is being pushed by scum.

Half the people who were seriously pusing the Metal wagon yesterday (RC, Taly) have already flipped town. Is this you scumreading me?

Incidentally I don't want this day to end in the next 48 hours, at least; there is more I need to see.

Why do you think I'm scumreading you when there are two more people on metal's wagon?

[eektor]

...
Why do you think I'm scumreading you when there are two more people on metal's wagon?

I consider myself primarily responsible for yesterday's Metalcyanide wagon. If you claim that scum have pushed to get Metalcyanide lynched that points pretty strongly at me. I would not say that Boonskiies "pushed" the Metal wagon very hard, though that does not make him town in any case. Elyse was behind the Metal wagon day 1 (though only after the Taly flip), but I don't think she strongly and actively pushed it until day 2.

If you think that the mafia actively want Metalcyanide dead then you'd best have a case for either myself or Elyse being mafia.

Why do you think that the InsidiousLemons wagon falling apart, and the Metalcyanide wagon holding together more, makes Metal town? What is your reason to rule out the possibility that myself and Elyse are townies and that our reasons to want Metal lynched remain as true as they were yesterday, and that the Insidious wagon has fallen apart because it was being (at least partially) pushed by scum who didn't really believe it?

Also, do you disagree with my opinion of your Tool townread?

I said this metal wagon which implied day 2. You just voted metal and hasn't said anything about why he was scum at all day 2 and haven't been pushing it. I'm wondering why you are being so defensive about it though. Also, if you noticed earlier I did say I thought you were town and Elyse could possibly be scum.

You were always on metal day 1, Elyse hopped on the wagon once Taly got modkilled. And like you said Elyse didn't actively push metal until day 2. As for the IL wagon, well I know I'm town and then you have pisskop which is town in my book, so the only one left is mykonian. So no I don't' see scum pushing the IL wagon, maybe scum hopping on and that would have to be mykonian.

About tool, you might be right and my town read can actually be scum motivated.

[eektor]

That's not quite an answer to my question. What about this fact:

What's interesting to note is at Day 1, we were deadlocked between lynching metal and IL. Day 2, metal's wagon is going strong and the IL wagon fell apart.

made you say this:

Which makes me wonder if

this

metal wagon is being pushed by scum.

So, you read that and thought I was talking about the day 1 wagon? Also, which question didn't I answer?

[eektor]

If metal is scum, why would there be no counterwagon? You think a possible counterwagon for scum-metal would fall through (considering it had a high likelihood of forming as seen from day 1) when a scum buddy is on the chopping blocks? Where's the other counterwagon. This is why I think metal is town.

As for metal being town, I find that scum after talking during the night thought to push metal day 2, and might be why their is no IL interest today. Although if that is the case, IL might be town.

Now can you answer my question.

[eektor]

That's not quite an answer to my question. What about this fact:

What's interesting to note is at Day 1, we were deadlocked between lynching metal and IL. Day 2, metal's wagon is going strong and the IL wagon fell apart.

made you say this:

Which makes me wonder if

this

metal wagon is being pushed by scum.

So, you read that and thought I was talking about the day 1 wagon?

Also, which question didn't I answer?

@ Aqua can you answer that question?

[eektor]

As for IL

Speculation on such things isnt going to yield fruit.

We need suspects. Not what-ifs.

I still like boon, hasn't said anything and he sheeped RC

Why are either of these at all reasons to like boon?

This is just filler, he took one post and decide to reply to it. He didn't take the time to see the context of the post in reference to metal voting for boon and pushing for a boon's lynch. Nothing town here, more like lazy scum trying to appear to be scumhunting.

Does IL being in the hospital not offer a reasonable explanation for this?

First of all, he was out of the hospital, said he was going to be active from then on. Then first post on day 2, he picks one single post without looking at any others before it and there weren't that many posts there. So no that isn't a reasonable explanation for it.

[eektor]

@Mod I'll be on vacation from Tuesday to Saturday

[eektor]

I can get behind a mykonian lynch.

VOTE: mykonian

He's at L-1 now.

[eektor]

@eektor

: Can you give an update as to your read on Bellaphant/InsidiousLemons?

If you have any other interesting reads or points I'd quite like to hear them too.

My scum read was on IL but since Bella replaced I haven't seen anything particularly scummy so far which is making me think my scum read on IL was due to lack of activity.

So far I'm wondering why metal was so reluctant to vote IL when he was on the lynching block and yet he jumped pretty quickly onto the myko wagon.

Then another thing is when myko's wagon is catching steam, tool dropped his vote on me and went to metal.

So, if myko is scum, I think tool could be a possible buddy as well as Boon. But I do see a link between metal and IL/Bella which worries me.

[eektor]

I would think a self hammer would make myko scum, but I did see in my last game a townie that self hammered. Although, the fact that he didn't mention any last reads or thoughts make me think he's scum.

[eektor]

Would it be best to do a no lynch today?

[eektor]

To narrow the pool of suspects, generally.

Well yeah, I see that - but I'm reasonably confident that scum would either shoot me or someone I wouldn't lynch anyway, in the present situation. Neither of which helps much.

Any particular reason you don't put Bellaphant on that list?

Who wouldn't you lynch right now?

Looking back at the myko lynch, I think Bella and TDA would be the most likely to be scum on that wagon. If Bella is scum, the fact that tool left her out would make me think they are partners.

@Boon Do you have any other thoughts besides I'd like to lynch Toon? I thought you were more active with your thoughts and reads in the later days of the game.

[eektor]

Because their reasons for joining the wagon is more suspect than the other 2 (you and metal).

I'm starting to lean towards Bella scum. With myko being town, it leaves Elyse, IL, and tool left on the earlier Taly wagon. Now with this last mislynch, Bella joined in, making her the only person/slot that was on that Taly wagon and now on the myko lynch.

[eektor]

I feel like it makes sense to no-lynch today. It eliminates possibilities.

I agree with this.

VOTE: No Lynch

[eektor]

Eektor

- could you tell me what you found fake in the exchange between IL and Metal.

The exchange didn't make sense, it doesn't seem natural. I don't know how to explain it more than that.

[eektor]

I'm willing to go for a Bella or Boon lynch.

@Elyse I know you see metal as scum. Do you think that whole not voting for IL, was him WK'ing a townie instead of him defending a scum buddy?

[eektor]

@Elyse Why do you think I make the most likely scum buddy of metal? You have me as his scum buddy in both cases with the possible third member Bella or tool.

@Aquanim Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the IL lynch forming as a counterwagon to metal's lynch. Most people were on Taly and then when he got modkilled, the wagon on Taly split into metal and IL.

[eektor]

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm happier town-reading tool is that he is again highlighting eektor as being scummy. While his push on eek rung alarm bells for me when I replaced in, I think he's got some good points. Also, I've just won a scum-game with eek as my buddy in the newbie queue where my activity/posts were nothing like this, but he's still scum-reading me? I'd be happy with a metal/eek lynch today.

(If Aqua and Elyse are scum together, they have done a brilliant job and we should probably give up )

So you are town reading tool just because he thinks I'm scummy. I guess you are town reading everyone in this game as they all have me as one of their main scum suspects.

Then you say I must be scum because you are acting different than in the newbie game we were scum together and I'm still scum-reading you? Well, shouldn't you be acting different in this game if you were scum when I knew you were scum in the other game?

I have been scum reading IL from the beginning. The reason why I backed off was you replaced and I wanted to see what you did. You haven't done anything to convince me that you are town. Rereading the beginning of the game is confirming my suspicion that IL was scum and you replacing in the slot hasn't changed that. Also, with tool tunneling me these past 2 days, we are going to lose if we no lynch today.

VOTE: Belaphant

[eektor]

I think Bella and TDA would be the most likely to be scum on that wagon

Why?

Because their reasons for joining the wagon is more suspect than the other 2 (you and metal).

This doesn't cut it.

Would you agree with me that there is at least one scum in the myko wagon?

[eektor]

@Aquanim You are correct. One thing though I noticed is that if you think the IL wagon was to counter metal's wagon (assuming metal is scum), the people on IL's wagon ended up being confirmed town.

From what I saw, I started voting for IL, then after a while pisskop (confirmed town) joined, later mykonian (confirmed town) joined. At the end TDA joins. If metal is scum, I would put Bella as scum buddy for him refusing until pressured to vote for IL and TDA as joining the counterwagon of his scum buddy. Which I think contradicts itself and doesn't make sense for that to be the scum team.

[eektor]

@Aquanim You are correct. One thing though I noticed is that if you think the IL wagon was to counter metal's wagon (assuming metal is scum), the people on IL's wagon ended up being confirmed town.

From what I saw, I started voting for IL, then after a while pisskop (confirmed town) joined, later mykonian (confirmed town) joined. At the end TDA joins. If metal is scum, I would put Bella as scum buddy for him refusing until pressured to vote for IL and TDA as joining the counterwagon of his scum buddy. Which I think contradicts itself and doesn't make sense for that to be the scum team.

Yes, a fair few people on that wagon flipped town. I also have to consider the possibility that you're scum with Metal and started the counterwagon on the Insidious slot, though I suppose you don't have to. Why do you not consider the possibility that if Metal and Bellaphant are scum, the remaining scum bussed Metal instead of Insidious?

So if you think me and metal is scum, why would metal have to be pushed to join the counterwagon on IL. Why would me and metal go for the myko lynch when myko was town reading metal and started to see me as town? I don't think metal is scum, but if you guys think metal is scum, it is only logical to think Bella is his scum buddy. I think Bella is scum and it's the best bet for lynching scum today.

[eektor]

I think you missed the last question: if Bellaphant and Metal are both scum, you appear to have only considered the possibility that the third scum was on the InsidiousLemons wagon (hence concluding that it's TDA). What makes you think that the third mafia would not be on the Metal wagon day 1 instead?

I think you missed the point. I expanded your thought of metal being scum and IL being a counterwagon to conclude in that situation TDA would be a most likely scum buddy. I don't think the three of them are scum, I don't think metal is scum. Feel free to add a third member to the metal, Bella scum team as you are saying you think metal is scum.

My question to you, is are you willing to vote for Bella? The only person I see you thinking of lynching so far is metal and Boon, is that correct?

[eektor]

My read on Tool isn't just based on that: the case boon pushed on him was terrible, I've re-read his interactions with Taly, which look way too...invested for him to be scum, and I like his considered approach to new situations: he looks like he's legit trying to sort the game.

I think you missed the last question: if Bellaphant and Metal are both scum, you appear to have only considered the possibility that the third scum was on the InsidiousLemons wagon (hence concluding that it's TDA). What makes you think that the third mafia would not be on the Metal wagon day 1 instead?

@eek, can you explain, other than the above, other reasons that TDA is scum?

I wasn't aware Boon had presented a case on tool, what was so terrible about his case?

Also, like I said before I don't think TDA is scum (well I'm not sure, but I definitely not going to push or vote for him today).

[eektor]

@metal Is there anybody else besides Elyse you want to vote for? Would you vote for Bella?

[eektor]

@eek, how did you miss boon's case? People reacted to it: I even mentioned, at the time, that aqua/elyse/tool had the same response to it, which was 'he's gone through tool's iso trying to find reasons to hang a case together.' It made me concerned about the echo effect, now I'm more convinced they were just right.

So at first you were wary of the echo between aqua, elyse, and tool and now you are thinking they are all town agreeing on Boon's bad case on tool? Which one of the three were you most worried about?

[eektor]

UNVOTE: Elyse
I would still like to Boon over anyone else I'll throw another vote down later

meh, i'm just disinterested town forgetting that I'm in this game.

VOTE: Tool

Sheep me. It's correct.

Any chance you'll vote for Bella today?

[eektor]

Maybe we should all give 2 names we are willing to vote today. If you have more than 2, feel free to say all of them.

What do you guys think?

[eektor]

Well my number one is Bella but I have a tie for 2nd which is Boon and tool. The way I see it one of them is scum, the other isn't. I really want a Bella lynch but I'll join one of those two wagons. The only one I trust to be town right now is Aqua.

[eektor]

Well my number one is Bella but I have a tie for 2nd which is Boon and tool. The way I see it one of them is scum, the other isn't. I really want a Bella lynch but I'll join one of those two wagons. The only one I trust to be town right now is Aqua.

What's your reason for saying it's exactly one of those two?

Because I can't see Boon and tool as scum buddies. I also think both of them make excellent scum buddies for Bella but not both of them together.

[eektor]

Then you say I must be scum because you are acting different than in the newbie game we were scum together and I'm still scum-reading you? Well, shouldn't you be acting different in this game if you were scum when I knew you were scum in the other game?

Could you explain this using about 3 times as many words?

How about me replacing the pronouns:

Then Bella said eektor must be scum because Bella is acting different than in the newbie game where Bella and eektor were scum together and eektor is still scum reading Bella? Well shouldn't Bella be acting different in this game if Bella were scum when eektor knew Bell was scum in the other game?

Anyways, I am having serious doubts about you. All you have done today is ask questions and not contribute any reads or even thoughts about the alignment of people in the game. It is like you are sitting back waiting for a wagon to form and then you are ready to join the one you like. You are either a completely clueless town which I find hard to believe since you said you are an alt and you have a main, or you're just scum trying to bide your time to join the wagon you like.

[eektor]

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm happier town-reading tool is that he is again highlighting eektor as being scummy. While his push on eek rung alarm bells for me when I replaced in, I think he's got some good points.

Also, I've just won a scum-game with eek as my buddy in the newbie queue where my activity/posts were nothing like this, but he's still scum-reading me?

I'd be happy with a metal/eek lynch today.

(If Aqua and Elyse are scum together, they have done a brilliant job and we should probably give up )

[eektor]

Anyways, I am having serious doubts about you. All you have done today is ask questions and not contribute any reads or even thoughts about the alignment of people in the game. It is like you are sitting back waiting for a wagon to form and then you are ready to join the one you like. You are either a completely clueless town which I find hard to believe since you said you are an alt and you have a main, or you're just scum trying to bide your time to join the wagon you like.

I think that we should no lynch today.
I've certainly given thoughts and reads.
How does me being an alt have anything to do with me being clueless?

Since you are an alt and have a main, I expect you to be more experienced and therefore not that clueless.

[eektor]

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm happier town-reading tool is that he is again highlighting eektor as being scummy. While his push on eek rung alarm bells for me when I replaced in, I think he's got some good points.

Also, I've just won a scum-game with eek as my buddy in the newbie queue where my activity/posts were nothing like this, but he's still scum-reading me?

I'd be happy with a metal/eek lynch today.

(If Aqua and Elyse are scum together, they have done a brilliant job and we should probably give up )

I think Bella's reasoning is terrible, but I don't think that she means what you think she means.

That is her main arguement for scum reading me. Look how she went from leaning town on me and then after I was pushing her, then she switched to scum reading me.

Also, that is one of her arguements for town reading tool.

[eektor]

So what are your thoughts or reads in the game? If you had to vote right now, who would be the people you would want to vote for?

Plenty of experienced players are clueless, but anyway, why do you think that I am clueless?

Actually I'm starting to think you are scum. But if your town, let's figure this out. Only way to win is if town comes together. I wanted a no lynch but then I realized it isn't going to work. I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night and it's most likely the only one that is engaging everyone and the person that most of us trust as townie. If he's gone, I don't think town can get together the next day. Which is frustrating me, because I think town has basically given up this game and scum is content to sit back and watch this train wreck happen. So no I don't think a no lynch is a good idea.

[eektor]

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm happier town-reading tool is that he is again highlighting eektor as being scummy. While his push on eek rung alarm bells for me when I replaced in, I think he's got some good points.

Also, I've just won a scum-game with eek as my buddy in the newbie queue where my activity/posts were nothing like this, but he's still scum-reading me?

I'd be happy with a metal/eek lynch today.

(If Aqua and Elyse are scum together, they have done a brilliant job and we should probably give up )

I think Bella's reasoning is terrible, but I don't think that she means what you think she means.

That is her main arguement for scum reading me. Look how she went from leaning town on me and then after I was pushing her, then she switched to scum reading me.

Also, that is one of her arguements for town reading tool.

I see now. I don't know what threw me off.

Anyway, I think that people need to stop using one game's worth of meta try reading people.

I guess what I was trying to say is that reason she has for scum reading me is not hard to change and since I knew how she acted in that game, she can easily change it. So there is no reason why I would see that change in her behavior and think she wasn't scum.

[eektor]

I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night

What if you are wrong?

If I'm wrong, that would be great because it eliminates one of the person that I'm not so sure about.

[eektor]

So what are your thoughts or reads in the game? If you had to vote right now, who would be the people you would want to vote for?

I think that the most likely scum are Boon and Bella.

What about tool? Do you see anything scummy there? Or is it just Boon and Bella that are more obvious scum?

[eektor]

I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night

What if you are wrong?

If I'm wrong, that would be great because it eliminates one of the person that I'm not so sure about.

This is why we should no lynch.

Well the other problem with a no lynch is if tool is town and he votes for me day 4, scum can win the game. Of course you have to believe both of us are most likely town, which I don't think anybody does. But that is something I am worried about.

[eektor]

So what are your thoughts or reads in the game? If you had to vote right now, who would be the people you would want to vote for?

Plenty of experienced players are clueless, but anyway, why do you think that I am clueless?

Actually I'm starting to think you are scum. But if your town, let's figure this out. Only way to win is if town comes together. I wanted a no lynch but then I realized it isn't going to work. I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night and it's most likely the only one that is engaging everyone and the person that most of us trust as townie. If he's gone, I don't think town can get together the next day. Which is frustrating me, because I think town has basically given up this game and scum is content to sit back and watch this train wreck happen. So no I don't think a no lynch is a good idea.

that doesn't answer my question.

Because you weren't contributing anything, you weren't sharing your thoughts and reads. All you were doing was asking questions. If you are trying to keep your thoughts or findings to yourself, now is the time to share them.

[eektor]

You also never answered my question about your opinion of my vote on Mykonian.

I didn't like it. It was a naked vote. Also a bit suspicious since he was pushing you, albeit weakly.

[eektor]

You also never answered my question about your opinion of my vote on Mykonian.

I didn't like it. It was a naked vote. Also a bit suspicious since he was pushing you, albeit weakly.

So you think I am scummy for something you did too?

Mine wasn't naked and I have mentioned before that mykonian could be scum. Your vote was naked and nowhere earlier did you mention you were scum reading him. So yes we both voted for mykonian, but the circumstances surrounding your vote is very suspicious.

[eektor]

@Aqua I find case 2 and 3 more likely than your case 1 and 4. In respect to Case 4, like you said earlier the indecision on the lynch between metal and IL makes me think one of them had to be scum. If you noticed IL wasn't around and voting. If IL was scum, that would have hurt the scum team's chances of pushing the counterwagon, which is why I think we ended with a no lynch and why I think out of those two IL was scum.

Also, I don't think tool can be paired with metal because when given the choice between metal and IL, he voted for metal. Only way he can be paired with metal is if he was scum with both metal and Bella. I think lynching Bella is the better way to go.

[eektor]

Eh, I started scum reading them first. With the exception of eektor. They're just more active.

Town deserves to lose this anyways. Just mislynch me, and get this game over with so i don't have to feel inclined to keep checking up on it.

@Elyse - I've never started a counterwagon away from a scumbuddy. Ever. I always bus. Always.

I would be a lot more upset at this post if it wasn't for the fact that I really think you are scum. If you like to bus go ahead and bus your buddy now then.

[eektor]

@Boon

I get that you don't want to play this game anymore. It was pretty obvious with your lack of posting most of the game. I'm going to assume your town, and believe that you are 100% sure that me, Elyse, and tool are scum. Wouldn't voting for Bella be the same as you getting mislynched. The game would be over according to your thoughts which are 100% correct. So why not vote for Bella and be done with this game? The only reason why you wouldn't, would be because you are scum and you know that by lynching Bella you are just prolonging this game for one more day and you will have to be here for Day 4. But you're town, so that can't be the case.

[eektor]

@tool

From your post analyzing interaction with Boon, am I correct to say you are thinking Boon is your main scum suspect now? And with him being scum you think Bella is the best fit for Boon's scum buddy? Do you still think I am scum with metal? I just want to point out, the only way me and metal is scum is if the 3rd scum is between Elyse and Aqua, otherwise this game would be over. The only reason why this lynch isn't going through is because Bella is scum and her buddies don't want to bus.

@ all

We are in the last 24 hours and I'm pretty certain I am on scum and I don't want to move my vote. No lynching is not going to help at all. If town can't come together today, I sincerely doubt we are going to be able to get together and lynch scum day 4.

[eektor]

You know those two votes happening really quick, makes me a bit nervous.

[eektor]

wow, that really sucks

[eektor]

Well played scum team and thanks Monkey for modding the game.

[eektor]

Okay, that does a small misservice to Eektor. Sorry.

I admit I played bad, but I tried to make an effort this past week to make up for it. Apparently I was completely wrong, sorry.

[eektor]

Wow, I was thinking the scum team was Bella, Boon, and tool. And that third spot of tool I wasn't that sure about.

[eektor]

@Monkey Ty for ending the game quickly. I don't think I could have taken a 12 hour twilight to find out we lost after that.

[eektor]

Well, Boon was the closest to figuring out this game. Unfortunately, he looked awfully scummy during the game.

[eektor]

@Aqua Apparently it was Case 4 afterall.

[eektor]

@RC Just curious, who did you investigate that first night?

[eektor]

I'm sorry Bella. I really thought IL was scum and when you came in, you didn't change that opinion I had of him. I also was rereading the first part of the game and it confirmed my suspicion that IL was scum.

I have to admit this game was pretty frustrating, especially after day 1 which couldn't have ended worse for town. And everytime I'm town, my reads are always wrong. The only reade I was correct in was Aqua town but everyone had that. And also metal town but I wasn't too sure about that one.

In regards to Boons, I started Day 3 thinking Bella is scum and Elyse was probably scum (but most people thought she was town and so best to deal with it after Bella), then Boon posted and I went to Bella is scum and Boon is her scum buddy. Boon gave no explanation of reads and had a cocky attitude that he was 100% correct and since he had me as scum I knew his theory was full of crap. Figuring out the game is one thing, but if you make yourself look scummy or can't explain your reads, it is useless.

Scum team played well but town just couldn't get together and challenge the scum team at all. There were some clues, I think we should have lynched tool when he was asking Aqua to vote for metal so he would feel comfortable voting. I also thought it strange when I was questioning TDA and Elyse came on and tried to deflect the attention from him to other people. I thought that she defended TDA there, but I was set on Bella and Boon at that point.

Anyways, I think I will take a break from playing mafia. Maybe a month or two from now I can come back and see if I can learn how to effectively play the game.

[eektor]

I didn't noticed it only applied to you, I saw it for both of us.

@Monkey is there a dead or scum thread?